big meat vx...

[pbkid]

sorry to take up the forum space guys...
hey i wanted to PM you and get some info...but your inbox is full...write me when you get on next...thanks...

[Triathlete]

I haven't seen him around on the board in quite some time. What are your questions...we may have the answers since a lot of us were around when he did post a lot.

[JHarris1385]

I did this exact thing a few months ago....He is long gone from the forum at least....Ill try to remember my questions...

[Ldub]

I just saw him browsing the forums this morning.

[Triathlete]

I think he has pretty much gone into lurking mode!

[BBVX]

If he is in lurk mode, maybe he'll read this and send me back the $60 I sent him for his "extra" set of front diff brackets. The check was cashed and then, presto... no more Big Meat VX.
It was only $60, but still really annoying! :mad: :confused:

Brian

[pbkid]

yea i looked on his profile to see if he was still active and it said he was on yesterday...basically i was gonna ask him if he had done an SAS to get 36 inch tires under the VX...and if so, how much it cost him and how hard it was...

[Triathlete]

He does not have an SAS. If you search you will find the info on his lift. A lot of it was custom.
As far as a price on an SAS it will depend on a lot of things. Leaf sprung or links? If links ...air shocks, coil overs, coils and shocks? What kind of axle you use. How well built the axle is built up. How much of the work you can do yourself. Can you weld? Lots of variables!

[pbkid]

cool thanks for the info...ill look into it, because i think the VX looks great with that size tires..well if i can get that type of a lift without doing an SAS im down haha =)

[pbkid]

ok guys i think i did my research....heres what i have come up with after reading bigmeat's information...these are the parts needed...please correct me if im wrong...
bump stop change off 89 trooper for rear
front axle drop
4" jeep springs with 1" spacer
change tie rods
sway bar disconnects
different upper A-arms
remove upper bump stop
trim lower bumpstop 1/2 inch
upper ball joint flip with 3/4 inch spacer
spacer on lower ball joint flip 1/2 inch
Replace outer front cross-member bolts (2) with lower profile Hex head units (to clear lower A-arm)
add another rubber bushing UNDER the top shock mount (1/2")
longer shocks

alright, thats what i came up with...seems like some custom work, but not a lot of money...sorry about all the trouble guys...but oh well it will give you something to talk about and do at work =)
im curious about doing this for myself but it depends on how obtainable it is considering i cant do all that custom work myself because i dont have the tools or the know how....but im sure i can talk to predator offroad and they could help me out..

[Triathlete]

Um, an SAS may be cheaper and more practicle, especially if you plan on using it. 36" tires + 10 bolt axle = you better get used to changing broken CV/axle shafts. :smack:
Also a gearing change would be highly needed unless you like pulling away from stoplight like driving a Yugo!

[ZEUS]

Yeah, what he said! Big tires put big strain on parts so don't assume you would be done all of a sudden. Basically, consider the long haul differences. A beefy drivetrain is much more valuable than the money you may save in the beginning of an IFS build-up.

[pbkid]

hmm thats kinda depressing to hear that you think that an SAS would be cheaper and more practical...it was sounding like this type of lift just took a lot of customizing and research...guess ill have to keep saving =(

[nfpgasmask]

Pardon my ignorance, but what the heck does "SAS" stand for? I always say "SAS" when I am walking the mall with my wife, but in my case it stands for "Sweaty *** Syndrome". So, in regards to 4x4 build ups, what is a "SAS"??

Sorry again, but I just gotta ask cause it doesn't make sense contextually with my abbreviation. :)

Bart

[Ldub]

Solid

Axle

Swap

;)

[Triathlete]

PB
You may be surprised. The SAS may be cheaper than all the "custom" stuff. One-off's can cost mucho dinero $$$$$$$$$$$$$. For a linked SAS you basically need an axle ($200-600 at u-pull lots), some tubing for the links, joint end of some sort, mount brackets, shocks/springs and a steering set up. If you have a local 4x4 fab shop swing by and talk to them. They can probably give you a rough idea of cost. If you plan on running the big meats the SAS is definately the way to go...unless of course you like trail repairs!

[kpaske]

pbkid -

The problem with lifting the VX even a couple of inches is that it places the CV joints (front half axle) at a sharper angle than they were designed for. There is all sorts of information posted here about how to compensate for that, including purchasing custom diff drop brackets, but it's best to understand early on that the VX suspension is fairly limited in how it can be modified without replacing major components.

Everyone considering a lift and bigger tires should also be aware that the consequences go much further than torn CV boots. Neither the tranny nor the drivetrain were designed to accomodate tires larger than 30". Lifting your VX and putting on 33" tires will seriously decrease performance. Getting it back requires major modifications, such as a gear swap (for which parts are extremely rare) and a supercharger or engine swap.

If you're going to go through all the trouble and expense to modify your suspension and drivetrain, it might be wise to consider whether an SAS would be the better solution. I'm assuming that Big Meat's custom work was to lift the body, because there isn't much more that can be done to the suspension that hasn't already been done by many (besides an SAS).

SAS = Solid Axle Swap. It basically entails replacing much of the front suspension and both axles with something beefier. Most of the parts should be easily obtainable from older Isuzu/GM trucks from the junk yards, but I'm sure it would require a good deal of custom welding. When SPAZZ comes back around he'll probably chime in with all sorts of good details on how to do this (or search some older threads).

[nfpgasmask]

Danke...

Bart


Solid

Axle

Swap

;)

[pbkid]

ok, well that helps out. im just finding that the only limitation for the VX is its height and getting caught up on stuff..so i was thinking with lifting it more it would be pretty unstoppable, not to mention badass looking =). i dunno maybe its not workable for a few more years but i still have visions of one with a 6 inch lift, 36' tires, and exo cage...

[ZEUS]

Actually, the best rig to look for solid axles to donate to the VX is the Jeep Cherokees and Wagoneers. The widetrack, passenger side drop Dana 44 front axle is what works. The good news is these rigs have the same lug pattern as the VX so in all reality all you need to swap is the front axle and rear ring and pinion. 5.38's are the gears to look for swapping in since you can get them for D44's and for a limited time you can get them for our rear axle. 5.38's would work well with 35" tires as well. Independent 4x offers an SAS kit that includes all sorts of goodies to get the job done but expect to acquire more than what they offer. Another benefit of the SAS is the strength and practicality of the selectable hubs on Dana 44's and aftermarket parts up the yin yang!

[Triathlete]

Another thing to consider is that IFS doesn't allow for much flex (thats why so many pics with a wheel in the air). With a properly designed SAS you can get incredible flex. 4 tires on the ground get better traction than 3 or 2!

[pbkid]

dana 44's come off of old toyota's correct? i believe my 87 pickup had 44's on it...so if i could get ahold of an old toyota with a blown motor for cheap then i could steal most the parts needed?

[Triathlete]

Nope Toys have Toy axles. They will work also and have a big aftermarket. But I believe they have a different bilt pattern.

[ZEUS]

The toy axles have the same 6-lug pattern as Isuzus, older GM 1/2 tons, Jeep FSJ's, and Nissan trucks. Some of the Toy axles had Birfield joints which is a weak link so avoid those as well as closed knuckle D44's from GM's.

[pbkid]

yea i was gonna say toyota has the same bolt pattern as us, i know because im running a set of 99 tacoma rims right now =)
so if i could pick up an axle from a toyota and maybe the gearbox and a few other parts...i would pretty much just need the suspension and control pieces?

[JHarris1385]

Isnt it big meat that claims high MPG espically for his ride???? I think iv read that somwhere. 20+ if I do recall and that is with his height and tires. Thats the reason I tired to PM a while ago.....

Any thoughts on this?

[kpaske]

Wow, you guys are making me think about doing a SAS now... ;Db;

As for 20+ MPG with lower gears, I suppose that might be possible. Lower gears = Lower RPM = Better MPG at a given speed, compared to stock. BUT 35" tires are very big and heavy and would work the engine harder, so if the engine were stock, I wouldn't expect much of an improvement in gas mileage. I would probably expect it to be worse.

You also have to wonder how he is getting his numbers and whether the speedo/odo was properly recalibrated. Does anyone know for certain that he was running 5.38 gears?

[pbkid]

haha yea, im thinking thats its probably very possible for me to get ahold of most of these parts with little cost, its just figuring ALL the parts out, along with getting the right ones..

[ZEUS]

pbkid - a Toy axle might be to narrow, check into that if you get more serious. Plus keep in mind a D44 axle is meant for a heavier vehicle and is probably set up with stronger brakes than you would find on a Toy which is a very good thing when running 35" tires! Also bolting up a Toy transfer case and/or tranny brings up a whole basket of new issues. I would still opt for the D44 over anything else. Just check the Independent 4x website for the big kit and you will get a good idea of what all you will need. They have done the research for you and pieced together what will work.