Serious Engine Trouble [Text View] - VehiCROSS.info Forums

tritonsmoon

01/16/2007, 01:19 PM

Back in June of 2005 I had a problem with my VX using a lot of oil. The dealer I went to for service ran some diagnostics and explained to me I should keep an eye on the vehicles oil usage. And they could find NO oil leak. Well the next oil change I had that same dealer left the cap off. Fortunately I had no major damage after driving 20 miles. Since that time that particular Isuzu dealer has gone out of business. But I did write to the Owner Relations Department at Isuzu. Recently I have had to check or add oil pretty much everytime I fill up with gas. This weekend I had a major problem and on a 230 mile trip the oil burned completely out of my VX. I had to have it towed 100 miles to get home. Today they tell me a bearing seized and they can't turn the crank shaft at all! As you can imagine I'm not very happy. Has anyone had a similar experience? Will Isuzu help me out at all? I don't know if I want to put in a new engine. This thing only has 58,000 miles on it.

VCrossfan

01/16/2007, 01:27 PM

Most likely Rod Bearing #1 (furthest from the oil pump) use the Search and browse the forum, Isuzu has a prob and know it and some members have had the same prob. Back in my Hotrod days anytime I pulled the oil pan for any reason I always installed a new oil pump due to ,it's cheap and a peace of mind. Maybe a good idea for us over 100k and lower??? Good Luck

etlsport

01/16/2007, 01:44 PM

:( unfortunately that is not unheard of.. there have been a few VXs that suffered a similar fate.. on a 99 i dont know that you would still be covered under warranty, but if you are it sounds like your vx was maintained by a dealer, so if you are under warranty they might replace your engine for you.. can only hope..

.. from what i understand its not a very common occurance if you consider the number of vehicles that share our engine.. so i would feel its worth replacing my engine if that were to happen to me.. but im very attached to my vx

what type of oil were you using in your vx?

tritonsmoon

01/16/2007, 01:49 PM

I've been using synthetic 5W-30 not for any other reason other than that was what the dealer recommended.

nfpgasmask

01/16/2007, 02:40 PM

Jolly Roger VX'er

01/16/2007, 03:52 PM

My VX burns oil like mad. I don't have a clue how to fix it yet. I change my oil every 3000 miles and I always carry at least a whole quart around with me and check it once a week. If your engine runs out of oil, it will seize. So, until I figure out how to make it stop burning oil, I will just keep an eye on it and keep it topped off. Its really bad on road trips. I usually bring 2-3 quarts with depending on how far I am going. I am using Mobile-1 synthetic.

I really would like to get it fixed, but it seems like a common problem no one has been able to eliminate completely. The only thing I have done is use 10W instead if 5W. The thicker oil seems to burn away less rapidly...I think.

:confused: Bart

If I was you I would do the "psychos2" fix since you still have the stock intake and not the supercharger like I do.

I have the supercharger and after changing PCV every other oil change and keeping EGR clean (just pull off @ 30,000mile intervals) and using a breather cap on the valve cover....mine doesn't use hardly any oil between 3,000 mile oil changes. I mean it's barely under full when its time for an oil change. Before I did all this mine sucked down 2 quarts out of the blue.
And yes...I check my oil during fuel stops and before road trips.

The problem is the pcv valve. I have had the problem and replced the pcv valve and it is fine ,then all of a sudden down 2 qts.I have solved the problem by putting in a breather and plugging the line that goes to the intake plenum.I have had no problems since. It has probably been 8 months. If you want specifics let me know. shawn

What I did was bought a small breather from autozone ($10) and got a piece of rubber hose the right diameter and a couple hose clamps. I used the hose to connect the breather to the pcv valve and install the stock clamps to make sure it does not fall off. Take the hose that is connected to the intake plenum and plug it , I used a bolt that was the right diameter and used the hose clamps on both ends of the hose. It is very important that this hose is plugged or you will have an air leak.The breather is actually hidden under the plastic cover. I did not actually remove the pcv valve, just made it so the oil cannot be sucked into the intake. The reason this happens is poor design of the valve cover. There is either no baffle or insuficient baffles to stop this from happening when the pcv valve sticks open. shawn

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=9766&highlight=oil

kpaske

01/16/2007, 03:54 PM

I'm sorry to say that I don't see much that Isuzu could do for you. Your vehicle is out of warranty, and although leaving the oil cap off is not a good thing, unless it happened the same day your engine siezed, it would be hard to claim that it was the cause.

There are some known issues with this motor, but short of starting a class-action lawsuit, I don't think there is much you can do. Isuzu failed to fix the problem when the vehicle was still under warranty - you can bet your butt their not going to start fixing problems now.

Sorry to hear about your motor. I did that to my first vehicle - a 1980 Chevy Scottsdale pickup. Darn thing died on me on my way to school and the fuel pressure gauge was broken, so I had no idea. By the time I got off school and started poking around and realized what it was, it was too late.

nfpgasmask

01/16/2007, 04:41 PM

Thanks Jolly,

I would definiitely do this, but I really need a couple good photos of what exactly he is talking about here. I have no idea what a "plenum" or exactly where he is connecting stuff.

That would be awesome if you or him had photos of this, as it is really annoying (and scary) to always be burning through oil.

Thanks,

Bart

If I was you I would do the "psychos2" fix since you still have the stock intake and not the supercharger like I do.

I have the supercharger and after changing PCV every other oil change and keeping EGR clean (just pull off @ 30,000mile intervals) and using a breather cap on the valve cover....mine doesn't use hardly any oil between 3,000 mile oil changes. I mean it's barely under full when its time for an oil change. Before I did all this mine sucked down 2 quarts out of the blue.
And yes...I check my oil during fuel stops and before road trips.

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=9766&highlight=oil

MoonRaker

01/16/2007, 09:36 PM

I priced a new engine and they are over $4000 bucks. I saw that and thought screw it im rebuiliding it myself. The plan is to do a teardown first, new bearings are a must. Balence the crank. Nicosil the cylinders to stock specs, replace any worn pistons, new oil rings and im calling up totalseal for some custome gapless rings to be made. Im building a bigger oil pan and that should extend my time between oil changes. My factory manual acutualy said every 2000 miles, can you belive that. I think the problem stems from when you wait to long to change oil and sludge it causing your oil rings to fry enough not to smoke but let your oil burn from blowby. Mines to the point of burning and lossing viscosity at 500 miles. Thanks to the former owner that didnt care for the truck. All in all, it should be alot more bullet proof when done.

psychos2

01/16/2007, 10:04 PM

I have said it before and will say it again. The pcv vavle sticking will cause loss of oil. I have lost 2 quarts in a short period of time. if not checked it will cause engine failure due to not enough oil. I have removed my pcv valve and put in a breather and plugged the intake line and have fixed my oil lose problem. Before I decided to remove the pcv valve I had replaced it ,this was not enough a few weeks later I had oil loss again. That is when I decided to remove the pcv valve and my problem was solved.

Sorry Jolly Roger VX, missed your post . shawn

etlsport

01/17/2007, 07:07 AM

psychos, do you have photos/a how to on what you did? my vx has started drinking more recently.. id like to put an end to this quick fast and in a hurry

Ldub

01/17/2007, 07:20 AM

This might be worth a shot...

www.powerpro2000.com

Cyrk

01/17/2007, 07:50 AM

Yes psychos, do tell more about this mod...

Zorak

01/17/2007, 09:09 AM

psychos2

01/17/2007, 10:57 AM

Question I would have about Shawn's mod: if you eliminate the vacuum source at the PCV valve (by plugging the hose), doesn't the valve then stay closed all the time? If you are leaving the valve in place on the valve cover and attaching a breather filter to the valve where the vacuum hose used to be, is crankcase pressure enough to open the valve to allow the oil vapors to vent through the breather?

It works just the opposite. When there is vacuum it is closed , so that it does not suck oil out. So what is actually happening is the PCV valve is not closing. They make elbows you could use or even put the breather directly into the valve cover.If you are worried about the motor not breathing but it is not needed, it will be fine with the pcv valve still in. I will try to post some pics but I have to borrow a camera to do so. shawn

nfpgasmask

01/17/2007, 11:53 AM

I'd lend you my camera but your about as far away you can get! Either way, if you can give us non-gear heads a step-by-step with photos that would be awesome and I would be eternally thankful.

In fact, I was thinking of adding a "how-to section" to my site for common stuff so I could host the pics for you if needed.

Thanks man!

Bart

It works just the opposite. When there is vacuum it is closed , so that it does not suck oil out. So what is actually happening is the PCV valve is not closing. They make elbows you could use or even put the breather directly into the valve cover.If you are worried about the motor not breathing but it is not needed, it will be fine with the pcv valve still in. I will try to post some pics but I have to borrow a camera to do so. shawn

jgalt

01/19/2007, 11:10 PM

This weekend I had a major problem and on a 230 mile trip the oil burned completely out of my VX. I had to have it towed 100 miles to get home. Today they tell me a bearing seized and they can't turn the crank shaft at all! As you can imagine I'm not very happy. Has anyone had a similar experience?

TM I can't tell you how bad I feel for you. I haven't posted this, but a similar occurence happened to me at 65K miles. I took my recently acquired VX into the local dealer for the 60K maintenance ($1,000) and also because she was running like crap. Turns out the cat had basically disintegrated and plugged up the exhaust (replaced under 8-year Federal warranty); an O2 sensor was fried ($250) and the transmission component that "talks" to the ECU about shift points, etc. (?) was fried as well (another $250).

After fixing (and paying for) all that I come to pick her up and they notify me that the engine is basically toast due to rod knock (spun or seized and deformed piston rod bearing on crank shaft which does not allow engine to maintain the needed oil pressure and adequately lubricate engine).

Well, now I've sunk $1,500 in a vehicle that doesn't run and talk to the dealer about engine replacement. They want over $6,000+ for a new crate engine and another $1,500 for installation.

I priced a new engine and they are over $4000 bucks. I saw that and thought screw it im rebuiliding it myself. ... Balence the crank. ... I think the problem stems from when you wait to long to change oil and sludge it causing your oil rings to fry enough not to smoke but let your oil burn from blowby. Mines to the point of burning and lossing viscosity at 500 miles.

If the crank has been scored by a spun bearing, you'll need to replace it. A new crank will run you $1,500. :eek:

This might be worth a shot...

www.powerpro2000.com

I also priced re-built long-blocks and talked to powerpro (above) as well as four others. The only engine rebuilder that had an Isuzu 3.5L was Rhino Engine; $3,900 for the long-block with a 3-year, 100,000 warranty. The new dealer engine at $6K+ had only a 1-year, 12,000 warranty.

I went with Rhino and talked the dealer down to $1,100 install since I just blew $1,000 on the 60K service for nothing...

After 2,000 miles, the engine is running strong and (as always) I check my oil with every fill up and carry two quarts (5w-30 M1 Syn) just in case. So far I've only needed to add 1/4 quart.

I know this has happened to others as well and do believe that, in this case, Isuzu could've done a bit more design, engineering and testing on this engine. That said, this is my fourth Isuzu and the the only one I've had any trouble with; the vehicle, to me, is still worth it as I've wanted one since they came out and know (generally) how stout they are built.

Like I said, I feel for you (BTDT) and it's a hard decision. Please let me know if I can add any more insight.

Best,

psychos2

01/24/2007, 11:26 AM

I borrowed a camera and will post pics as soon as I can. Keep in mind it is 29 degrees out and is supposed to get colder. shawn

nfpgasmask

01/24/2007, 11:53 AM

Cool man! Thanks for all your effort!

Bart

I borrowed a camera and will post pics as soon as I can. Keep in mind it is 29 degrees out and is supposed to get colder. shawn

MoonRaker

01/25/2007, 07:30 PM

Ive been dreading the rebuild and putting it off. Ive been reading alot on the history of problems with this peticuler engine. Im a very reputable engine builder so ive got alot of experiance from my 15 years of building. I work at Email address pettitracing,com and have been there since 04, the yellow RX-8 belongs to me. From the info ive seen it lookes like the main problem stems from sticking oil seals on the pistons. It causes excessive blow-by and from what ive seen breakes down the oil very fast causing lots of problems before you figure out whats wrong. Ive herd of crank bearings going out causing crank failure and also rod bearings. Im lucky to the fact of catching the problem early. It seems to happen from 50,000 to 80,000 miles. Im not shure if its from going to long between oil changes or carbon biuldup but im thinking that its the main cause. Even though a former owner sludged the oil and I have gotten 30,000 miles since perchase. Maintnence or lack of tends to hurt the VX. As good as it still runs im willing to bet that oil rings are the only thing thats wrong with my engine so far. Bearings and seals are getting replaced for shure though. I replaced the PCV valve and found that cleaning it or replacing it helps for about 2000 miles. As for pluging the hose, bad idea unless you dont mind blowing seals like the ones on your valve cover. That PCV valve is there to vent and if its getting clogged its from blow-by. Thats what im talking about. Id like to ask for some help and ill return the favor if anyone is local to WPB. Im disabled to the point of not being able [ 2 shattered vertabre] to pull the motor out of my VX. If you need a rebuild on your motor or tranny I can do everything except lift heavy stuff. I need help pulling it and reinstalling. If you fix this problem early im shure it wont be as bad as you think. I dont play when it comes to the details.

MoonRaker

01/25/2007, 10:00 PM

Wow, new set of ring, only $50. Oil pump seems the most expensive thing, $250. Gaskets are cheap to. At the price of what a new engine is going for, im thinking of doing rebuilds for $1500 plus parts and machinind. Its looking like its going to be around $800 in parts sofar. Not bad.

psychos2

01/25/2007, 10:30 PM

From the info ive seen it lookes like the main problem stems from sticking oil seals on the pistons. It causes excessive blow-by and from what ive seen breakes down the oil very fast causing lots of problems before you figure out whats wrong. Ive herd of crank bearings going out causing crank failure and also rod bearings. I replaced the PCV valve and found that cleaning it or replacing it helps for about 2000 miles. As for pluging the hose, bad idea unless you dont mind blowing seals like the ones on your valve cover. That PCV valve is there to vent and if its getting clogged its from blow-by.

First of all WHAT OIL SEALS ON THE PISTON ??? Second excessive blow-by is not caused from bad oil rings. Third the hose that gets plugged goes to the intake not the valve cover. You put a breather on the valve cover. Forth it is not getting clogged it is sticking open so when there is vacuum it is sucking oil.
I am willing to bet that most of the problems stem from lack of oil not broken down oil. For example, my low oil light came on ,so I added oil now my engine is making a noise.
I have seen motors with so much fuel in the oil that it has the consistency of fuel not oil. The motors are still running with no spun bearings.
I have seen my motor suck down 2 qts of oil in less than 500 miles. Once the problem of the sticking pcv valve was fixed it would use approx 1/2 of a quart of oil in 3000 miles.
The biggest cause for spun bearings would have to be lack of oil.Metal on metal is a bad thing. shawn

MoonRaker

01/26/2007, 12:18 AM

Sorry, oil rings, I like working with cars not reading dictionarys. It shouldnt use oil at all. If your getting fuel in your oil its from a leaky injector and if you have one it makes oil you dont loss it so thats out. Your lossing oil so thats from bad, stuck, worn out oil rings or an external leak. Yes it does get worse if your PCV valve is sticking. If you look through your oil fill, its probly brown, thats a sure sign of blowby. If your oil smells like fuel and breaks down fast, like in 500 to 1500 miles thats another sign. Remeber that its not a rotary engine wich is supposed to use oil. If its leaving your engine, somthings wrong and it isnt anything that you mentioned above is going to fix or stop completly. If your having these problems rember it just gets worse till it gets fixed or breaks completly. If you push it its going to cost you more to fix. My truck still has good power that meens a good chance of a easy inexpensive fix, for me atleast. Dont come at me like that psyco, im here to answer questions and ask them, not to start cyber fights. You can either be a friend and I can answer your questions if you have any for me or not. Pettitracing.com is were I work as the chief of R&D and master machinest. If you look on the sight youl see a yellow rx-8, like I said its mine, that supercharger kit you see there was designed by me also. I have fun doing things like that and ill put my mechanical engineering abilitys up against 95% of MIT grads and the other 5% are pretty impressed. Trust me, I work with alot of them. Ive built V-12s V6s, 4 bangers, rotorys and any 2-strokes you can think of automatic trannys are a little of a challenge, manuals are cake for me. At this time ive got an inline 4 jetski motor apart in my living room, its practicly the same motor as an R-1 less the tranny. I have never had a motor blowup that ive built and havent found a problem I couldnt figure out. I dont cut corners even if it saves money, do it rite the first time is my goal, not rigging it to get some more miles out of it.

MoonRaker

01/26/2007, 01:13 AM

psychos2

01/26/2007, 06:22 AM

First of all WHAT OIL SEALS ON THE PISTON ??? Second excessive blow-by is not caused from bad oil rings

Wana bet ? If the oil rings are stuck, your going to get carbon buildup because the oil isnt getting sraped off the cylender walls properly. That causes the rings to stick also = blowby and oil burning. The acids from blowby breaks the oil down very fast and kills viscosity. Thats why your buddys oil turned to what you explained as almost fuel. That lack of viscosity causes metal to metal. Like I said, overdue oil changes and sludged oil are the main cause. Also if you run out of oil, well that isnt suposed to happen. It didnt do that when it was new did it, and were is it going.

I am not here to argue either but ,I purchased my vx with 15,000 miles on it so it was pretty much new. When I bought it the oil consuption was 1/2 quart per 3000 miles. I started noticing a lot more oil consumption , so I changed the pcv valve and it was back to the 1/2 qt per 3000 miles. The pcv valve failed again shortly after. The oil consumption was high again. So I made it so there was no chance for the oil to get sucked into the intake when the pcv valve gets stuck. Problem solved. Back to !/2 qt every 3000 miles . My vx now has 93,000 miles. So it is not a temporary fix to cover a problem with bad oil rings.
The problem with fuel in the motor was not on my vx. It was on a boat with a Procharger on it. They run so rich that the fuel makes it past the rings into the oil pan. They have a bad setup. On boats anyway. But again the oil was broke down and no bearing failure.

If you think about it if the problem was oil contamination, Wouldn't all the bearings fail, not just #1 rod bearing ? I think so . There is a reason it is #1 ,because the vx oil system starts at tha back so #1 get oiled last.

And I am not just joe schmo from Idaho (no offence) I have done some engine building myself.I have done many Supercharger installs. This is a link to the place I work. The motor in the videos is a 1300 hp motor. We just finished a 1000 hp motor,its going in the boat right now.

http://www.perfmar.com/

VehiGAZ

01/26/2007, 07:28 AM

Are you two arguing about whether pistons have rings or not?!?

I think we can all agree that in a perfect world, piston rings would form a perfect seal for their entire working life of the engine and not one drop of oil would ever be lost past them, but in the real world, they are not perfect and get worse with age and some oil will get past. If we can all agree on that, then you can argue all you want about how much oil loss is acceptable.

To that, I say that half quart every 3000 miles is fine by me... the engine never gets starved for oil between changes, and that's the most important thing. My old Honda Prelude SH with 145k miles was burning about 2-3 quarts every 3000 miles. That was a problem, but not unexpected for a high-revving engine that old and that beat on (I was anything but gentle on that car from the day I drove it off the lot). Ultimately, the oil was cheaper than a ring job, so I was willing to live with it.

MoonRaker

01/26/2007, 09:20 AM

Ha ha, psycos gotta deal with the corrosion factor. Thats why I dont like working on boats. Most of those boats you work on should have heat exchangers though. I worked on large frieghters so I now alot about what you deal with, Props to you psyco. The blowers were so big on those friggen boats that you needed a chainhoist to lift them. EMDs and cummings.

MoonRaker

01/28/2007, 11:02 AM

Im starting my tear down monday. Its all pointing at the before mentioned problem. New rings are only $50. Plus parts and machining. A question for anyone that can answer it. Are the cylinders steel sleeves nickol or somthing else.

Diogenes

01/28/2007, 12:59 PM

Was out last night at a concert. No problems driving there.. no indications of anything wrong.

After the show, got back in the vehicle and suddenly my "check engine" light, AS WELL AS my "Check Trans" light both came on. This is the first time for either.

Wouldn't be so concerned about the "check engine" since those are usually O2 sensors, but that Check Trans light had me nervous all the way driving home (but no apparent physical problems.. still shifted fine.)

Just went out and rechecked to see I'm still having the problem and the lights are still coming on.

Any ideas? It's a 99 VX with 54K on it. Had the Tranny cover replaced and new fluid put in less than 4K ago.

Appreciate any help..

Also, I'm looking for a replacement gas cap cover. When I bought the vehicle someone had broken off the cover, so the gas cap is exposed. Can't seem to find one doing a web search. But I can't believe this cover is unique to the VX. Would be hard to justify not having used a stock cover from some other model.

Appreciate any help..

Ron

Diogenes

01/28/2007, 01:00 PM

Was out last night at a concert. No problems driving there.. no indications of anything wrong.

After the show, got back in the vehicle and suddenly my "check engine" light, AS WELL AS my "Check Trans" light both came on. This is the first time for either.

Wouldn't be so concerned about the "check engine" since those are usually O2 sensors, but that Check Trans light had me nervous all the way driving home (but no apparent physical problems.. still shifted fine.)

Just went out and rechecked to see I'm still having the problem and the lights are still coming on.

Any ideas? It's a 99 VX with 54K on it. Had the Tranny cover replaced and new fluid put in less than 4K ago.

Also, I'm looking for a replacement gas cap cover. When I bought the vehicle someone had broken off the cover, so the gas cap is exposed. Can't seem to find one doing a web search. But I can't believe this cover is unique to the VX. Would be hard to justify not having used a stock cover from some other model.

Appreciate any help..

Ron

MoonRaker

01/28/2007, 01:29 PM

Ok, sounds like your running to a common problem with the wiring harness. Dont hold me to it but cheak on the passenger side between the transmission and the frame, you will see the O2 sensor rite there. I bet your wireing harness is melted and shorting out. If thats the case, very carfully peel it apart and fix as needed. Do a good job and make sure its water proof or youl get more codes again when its wet. Rerout that part of the harness away from the exaust. It should be done on every VX but it a very neglectid procedere. I even had Isuzu replace it all under warenty and the same thing happened a week later. It also took them 6 months to find it, idiots The factory routing is going the wrong way with that part of the harnes. Also you should disconect the battery before you mess with it. Also find all the plugs you can and put dialectric grease in them, including the ones on your engine. That will take some time but its worth it in the long run.

gunpackingpoet

01/28/2007, 05:43 PM

No pics yet? :confused:

blacksambo

01/28/2007, 08:37 PM

The issue with alumimium engine blocks and steel oil control rings is wear and compensatory oil loss. due to vacuum increase. Psychos is right to alleviate the suction problem via breather application. But you also need to make sure the engine is sealed up tight in the first place. Said differently, make sure the oil filler port is closed tight. Make sure your filler o-ring is in good shape or replaced every few years. If the systen leaks at any juncture it will cause the engine vacuum effect to be magnified and the PCV will remain open when it should be shut and oil will be sucked in and burned.

MoonRaker

01/28/2007, 10:31 PM

So, does anyone now if it has steel sleeves or is it nicol coated alumminum or what im worried about, just aluminum. If its just aluminum im sending the block to millennium. http://www.mt-llc.com/index_home.shtml even if its scored nicol. If it breakes fix it better.

psychos2

02/13/2007, 10:26 PM

Cool man! Thanks for all your effort!

Bart

Sorry I have not posted pics yet . I have been busy and it has been very cold. I will try to get them up soon. shawn

nfpgasmask

02/13/2007, 11:12 PM

Hey man, that's cool. Whenever you get around to it! Until then, pour in more oil!

:) Bart

Sorry I have not posted pics yet . I have been busy and it has been very cold. I will try to get them up soon. shawn

psychos2

02/14/2007, 05:53 AM

I have taken a pic from the vx manual and hope that it will help. where the blue circle is you connect the breather.Just get a short piece of hose and a couple clamps. Or you can get one the same size as the hole for the pcv valve and just remove the pcv valve and install the breather in the valve cover. Second step would be to plug the hose circled in purple.Again I used a short piece of hose and I plugged it with a bolt, again using clamps on the hose.Or you can just plug the stock hose with a bolt and use a clamp. If you use a hose on the pcv valve put the breather pointing toward the front . It will be covered by the plastic cover and you will not see it.The pcv valve is in the drivers side valve cover. Hope this helps. As soon as I can I wil post an actual pic. Right now we are getting hit with a pretty big snow storm. hopefully enough to open the snowmobile trails. shawn

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/pcv.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/pcv.jpg)

AndyC

02/14/2007, 06:20 AM

Snow storm? :rolleyes: We'er supposed to be in the middle of one too. The forecaster said yesterday that we'd have 6-9" by morning. Well it's morning and there is maybe 2" of snow/sleet out there covering the ground. Who knows maybe by tomorrow there will be more.
Maybe that one that your getting will hit use later. Might have to start up the sled later.
Ok back to the oil problem -- how about valve seals? bad seals would cause the oil to leak into the cylinders and burn, right? I've been pretty luckly with mine. I use a little oil when I pull my boat but generally it's good.

nfpgasmask

02/14/2007, 09:14 AM

Hey Shawn, thanks. But pardon my ignorance, what the heck is a "breather"???

And for hose, what are you using? Just the clear plastic stuff (like the stuff from Home Depot that is used with ice cube makers and cold water lines?)

Bart

I have taken a pic from the vx manual and hope that it will help. where the blue circle is you connect the breather.Just get a short piece of hose and a couple clamps. Or you can get one the same size as the hole for the pcv valve and just remove the pcv valve and install the breather in the valve cover. Second step would be to plug the hose circled in purple.Again I used a short piece of hose and I plugged it with a bolt, again using clamps on the hose.Or you can just plug the stock hose with a bolt and use a clamp. If you use a hose on the pcv valve put the breather pointing toward the front . It will be covered by the plastic cover and you will not see it.The pcv valve is in the drivers side valve cover. Hope this helps. As soon as I can I wil post an actual pic. Right now we are getting hit with a pretty big snow storm. hopefully enough to open the snowmobile trails. shawn

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/pcv.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/pcv.jpg)

phant0m-je$ter

02/14/2007, 11:18 AM

Wow - I thought I was one of few, but it looks like a lot of VX owners are on their way to a blown motor. I never got a chance to post - but in the fall of last year my motor threw a rod in what I believe was also the #1 cylinder and once I heard the rapping\clicking sound - I knew it was all over. I took it to my local dealership and they did indicate that it's happened plenty of times before because of excessive oil consumption. My 2001 Proton VX had right about 78,000 miles on it and was still well within the 120,000 power train warranty. They asked that I provide all of my oil change records illustrating that I have changed the oil in no more than 7500 mile intervals. Upon reviewing all of my records they replaced the motor with a long block under warranty. I now have about 83,000 miles on it and all is well. However I love my VX like no other and would like to hold on to it for a while longer as I am the original owner and have quite an attachment to it. I would be VERY interested in this PCV valve fix if it stops the excessive oil consumption - especially it I am going to just run into the same issue again.

From what others have experienced - has adding the breather and plugging the hose solved the consumption problems? Has it had any negative side effects?

Thanks all,

-Rob

nfpgasmask

02/14/2007, 11:51 AM

Hey Rob, yeah, that is what I am afraid of. My VX runs well and I baby it so hopefully I can avoid this tragedy in the future.

With the new engine, do you have the oil burning problem?

Even if I get this oil consumption problem solved, I will still check my oil once a week as I have done since I owned my VX. Nothing is worse than catostrophic engine failure. Trust me, I know from experience.

Bart

Wow - I thought I was one of few, but it looks like a lot of VX owners are on their way to a blown motor. I never got a chance to post - but in the fall of last year my motor threw a rod in what I believe was also the #1 cylinder and once I heard the rapping\clicking sound - I knew it was all over. I took it to my local dealership and they did indicate that it's happened plenty of times before because of excessive oil consumption. My 2001 Proton VX had right about 78,000 miles on it and was still well within the 120,000 power train warranty. They asked that I provide all of my oil change records illustrating that I have changed the oil in no more than 7500 mile intervals. Upon reviewing all of my records they replaced the motor with a long block under warranty. I now have about 83,000 miles on it and all is well. However I love my VX like no other and would like to hold on to it for a while longer as I am the original owner and have quite an attachment to it. I would be VERY interested in this PCV valve fix if it stops the excessive oil consumption - especially it I am going to just run into the same issue again.

From what others have experienced - has adding the breather and plugging the hose solved the consumption problems? Has it had any negative side effects?

Thanks all,

-Rob

VCrossfan

02/14/2007, 01:46 PM

I can't believe I missed this post, anyway I've had this installed for alittle less than a year now and has worked well. 90 degree pvc fitting with the original hose from the intake still in place with the end plugged and a new pvc valve in my storage trunk just in case I have to reinstall it for some reason away from home..

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/thumbs/VX_vent_filter_001.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/VX_vent_filter_001.jpg)

nfpgasmask

02/14/2007, 01:50 PM

OK, so let me get this straight:

The hose connecting to the upper end of the PCV Valve is blocked off or plugged, and then the PCV Valve is attached to a vent or "breather"?

And that's it? Voila? No more oil consumption and no related problems/side effects??

Sounds simple...
Bart

I can't believe I missed this post, anyway I've had this installed for alittle less than a year now and has worked well. 90 degree pvc fitting with the original hose from the intake still in place with the end plugged and a new pvc valve in my storage trunk just in case I have to reinstall it for some reason away from home..

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/thumbs/VX_vent_filter_001.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/VX_vent_filter_001.jpg)

thedutchguy

02/14/2007, 02:04 PM

BTW these valves cost practicaly nothing!
So just replace it everytime with your oil change!
http://www.fram.com/products/accessories.php

FRAM part number:FV384
http://www.fram.com/enlarged/images/framAcc2.jpg

VCrossfan

02/14/2007, 02:12 PM

OK, so let me get this straight:

The hose connecting to the upper end of the PCV Valve is blocked off or plugged, and then the PCV Valve is attached to a vent or "breather"?

And that's it? Voila? No more oil consumption and no related problems/side effects??

Sounds simple...
Bart

Sorry MASK..A wrong order of letters by me lol. I now have the PCV valve removed and a 90 degree piece of PVC in it's place in the valve cover w/a small air filter attatched to it to allow the engine to vent without any vacuum
support..

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/thumbs/VX_vent_filter_001.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/VX_vent_filter_001.jpg)

thedutchguy

02/14/2007, 02:19 PM

http://www.frankgalasso.com/IMAGES/daily%20cartoon%20gallery/sox%20motor%20(Large).jpg

nfpgasmask

02/14/2007, 02:22 PM

And this is totally safe for the VX?

Someone please educate me on what the purpose of the PCV Valve is, and why it can be safely taken out of the picture.

Bart

Sorry MASK..A wrong order of letters by me lol. I now have the PCV valve removed and a 90 degree piece of PVC in it's place in the valve cover w/a small air filter attatched to it to allow the engine to vent without any vacuum
support..

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/thumbs/VX_vent_filter_001.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/VX_vent_filter_001.jpg)

nfpgasmask

02/14/2007, 02:32 PM

Nevermind my last post, this from Wikipedia:

"PCV system
The PCV valve is only one part of the PCV system, which is essentially a variable and calibrated air leak, whereby the engine returns its crankcase combustion gases. Instead of the gases being vented to the atmosphere, gases are fed back into the intake manifold, to re-enter the combustion chamber as part of a fresh charge of air and fuel. The PCV system is not a classical "vacuum leak." Remember that all the air collected by the air cleaner (and metered by the mass air flow sensor, on a fuel injected engine) goes through the intake manifold anyway. The PCV system just diverts a small percentage of this air via the breather to the crankcase before allowing it to be drawn back in to the intake tract again. It is an "open system" in that fresh exterior air is continuously used to flush contaminants from the crankcase and into the combustion chamber.

The system relies on the fact that, while the engine is running, the intake manifold's air pressure is always less than crankcase air pressure. The lower pressure of the intake manifold draws air towards it, pulling air from the breather through the crankcase (where it dilutes and mixes with combustion gases), through the PCV valve, and into the intake manifold.

The PCV system consists of: 1) The breather tube , and 2) The PCV valve. The breather tube connects the crankcase to a clean source of fresh air, such as the air cleaner body. Usually, clean air from the air cleaner flows in to this tube and in to the engine after passing through a screen, baffle, or other simple system to arrest a flame front, to prevent a potentially explosive atmosphere within the engine crank case from being ignited from a back-fire in to the intake manifold. The baffle, filter, or screen also traps oil mist, and keeps it inside the engine.

Once inside the engine, the air circulates around the interior of the engine, picking up and clearing away combustion byproduct gases, including a large amount of water vapor, then exits through a simple baffle, screen or mesh to trap oil droplets before being drawn out through the PCV valve, and into the intake manifold."

So, basically, what we are doing, is sort of bypassing the whole PCV system process? Is that correct? With the hose that leads back into the intake blocked off, does this cause any issues? Or is it ok for the main intake to be used fully?

My problem is that I am not understanding the point of the PCV system if it should just be vented off instead of fed back into the intake. Is this just a serious design flaw with this particular PCV system on Isuzu's part? Is it basically that the existing PCV configuration is not functioning properly (i.e. not venting or getting clogged)?

I have been changing my PCV with EVERY single oil change, and my oil consumption has not gotten any better....

Sorry for all these questions, just trying to learn this stuff so I have a solid understanding....

Thanks - Bart

phant0m-je$ter

02/14/2007, 03:42 PM

psychos2

02/14/2007, 04:23 PM

"My problem is that I am not understanding the point of the PCV system if it should just be vented off instead of fed back into the intake. Is this just a serious design flaw with this particular PCV system on Isuzu's part? Is it basically that the existing PCV configuration is not functioning properly (i.e. not venting or getting clogged)?

I have been changing my PCV with EVERY single oil change, and my oil consumption has not gotten any better....

Sorry for all these questions, just trying to learn this stuff so I have a solid understanding....

Thanks - Bart"

The pcv valve is used so that the gases in the crankcase get recycled (for emmision reasons). And the valve is supposed to close when there is vaccum,so it cannot suck oil from the valve cover. I cannot say that this will stop your oil consumption problem . I know that it stopped mine. I had changed my pcv valve did an oil change and within 1000 miles or so used 2 qts of oil. So it failed that quickly. The problem is more from poor design of the valve cover. I have not seen the underside of the valve cover but would guess that there is no baffle or too small a baffle to prevent the oil from being sucked up when there is a failure of the pcv valve. If I were you I would try it. I have looked at the chart in the vx manual and a pcv valve failure will cause excessive oil consumption. It will not harm your engine to try this. shawn

psychos2

02/14/2007, 04:37 PM

I also thought Tone or maybe someone else mentioned at some point that the EGR is also a possible cause of oil leaking out and then vaporizing on the actual engine case due to the extreme heat...any thoughts on that...?

-Rob

It is not listed under exsesive oil consumption in the manual.So I do not think so. But do not know for sure. shawn

Anita

02/14/2007, 04:41 PM

I talked with my isuzu mechanic (a good one) about this problem happening with so many owners. Through the years he has noticed two culprits showing up again and again. The EGR and the PCV both linked to oil consumption. Bob (Green Dragon) has an old post talking about the hazards caused by a faulty EGR.

I have been lucky that my VX doesnt use a drop of oil between changes. I do discuss with my mechanic what's going on with forum members VX's. He once made the point of saying for owners to be very careful about buying aftermarket PCV's.

psychos2

02/14/2007, 06:26 PM

MoonRaker

02/14/2007, 07:22 PM

The way its set up isnt to my liking, I wouldnt vent it as the vapors are pretty harsh, almost made me pass out on my last road trip. Id say run a hose from the location of the PCV valve to the top of the intake an down to the airbox if anything, you have alot less vacume and the vapors are still going out the tail. Plug the manifold. If your still on warrenty take it to ISUZU and tell them that your going to get it emmisions tested if they dont replace your motor. Tell them you already have it on paper you telling them its on the way out and out of spec, date and time. Also throw in how they tryed pushing you out the door. Even if your not in a state that dosnt have emmisions tell them your going out of state to prove the point. When you have it on paper you can get them fined $10,000 to $50,000 for a corprate emmisions violation, they dont want that. Most people would just walk away like I did because I didnt have the knowledge I have now.

MoonRaker

02/14/2007, 07:28 PM

I now that because unless a RX-7 or RX-8 comes to our shop with the emmisions bypassed or removed. It leaves with it. If its already gone its not our problem. We dont remove it our selves.

psychos2

02/14/2007, 08:12 PM

MoonRaker

02/14/2007, 08:39 PM

Guess my motor was to far gone, atleast it didnt lock up or spin a bearing. Ive seen those vents before many times but mostly on motors with a low vapor output. Guess it just depends on the causes. Ive gotten down to opening my valve cover, id post a pic but I cant without subscribing. Its really brown and cooked in, kinda like a worn out T-bird I rebuilt while I was in the army. Needles to say ive spooken with a few people and all say the same thing there VX didnt do it in early miles of ownership. Ive only spooken with one guy and hes a very anal mechanic. He said he changed the oil between 2500 and 3000 miles. He has 180,000 miles and no problems, he really babys it, never seen dirt, dam shame.

craigmm

08/15/2008, 02:46 AM

I have a 99 Ironman with roughly 100k and mine has had the same problem for about the last 20k. I found out mine was leaking oil due to a cracked rear main seal, which only costs about 150 bucks to replace. Instead I just put a quart of oil in every once and a while as it slowly leaked. Well I took to long the last time and ran it dry while driving in town, so like a good little engine it seized up, and now my VX is sitting in the back yard gaining dust.

I have been looking for an engine but their to expensive, so im going to just take it somewhere and have them rebuild it, probably for a couple thousand, there is no way I could do it myself.

So anyways mine was the cracked rear main seal.