Am I the biggest fool ever ???

[Ldub]

Well folks, I don't know what to think, I may be teetering on the edge of insanity...
Due to a lay-off last year, I haven't held a full time position since before Christmas.
During the last week or two, several different people from the company I worked for a couple years ago have contacted me trying to get me to come back.
I HATE working for large corporate entities, with all the rules & BS that entails, & really didn't want to go back to work for them.
Yesterday I had an interview with the GM from said company...he started things off on the wrong foot by being 1/2 hour late.
Things went OK after we got started, with him offering about 95% of what I was going for...until the conversation came around to random pee testing...
We were on opposing sides of the issue & I said "this meeting is over".

Sooo...it boils down to me kissing off a $40,000.00+ position with vaca & health bennies, IRA, etc., to work in a small family owned shop for a LOT less jing & no bennies to speak of...but I totally enjoy working there & look forward to going to work in the morning.

Sorry for rambling on for so long, just wanted to hear what my VX family has to say on this...

[ZEUS]

I took a job in Denver in 2000 that would pay $50,000 with all the profit sharing and stuff. I lasted 6 weeks before going back to my previous job which I throughouly enjoyed, although I made $15,000 less - it was worth it to leave though because when I left the original company, the boss increased the bennies for everyone else - profit sharing, back massages every Friday... So when I went back I got a $2 raise over what I made there previously and all those extra bennies too!!! Several months later though, my bossed died of pancreatic cancer - his funeral was on Sept. 11th 2001 - what a day...

[Andrey]

way to go !!!!!! big company never apreciates you or values your effort.... they usually have "F.Y." attitude. I liked the part ".... this meeting is over"... you were in total control !!!!!

[WormGod]

Ya know, depending on how bad you NEED the money, it's really your call whether it was a smart move or not. Me personally, my party life is over, so I would take a fat-dump test if they wanted me to, just to prove I am over my college years, haha.

But, drug use or not, stand up for your belief. I sit on both sides of the testing fence, so I tend to just shut up about this topic most of the time. Using it for ALL employees at a large company is one thing, but a small company is just silly. Now when either doesnt universally test everyone but profiles individuals for testing.... thats when you show up with a lawyer, heh.

[WyrreJ]

It is all about needing the money - or rather who has the greater need - you for the money or them for your skills.. I've taken a piss-test exactly once, when I was only a few years out of school with little money in the bank. Since then, any time the issue has come up, I've said flat out that it is not an option under any circumstances. I'm so straight I barely drink any alcohol much less indulge in recreational pharmaceuticals, but I believe the "war on drugs" is responsible for more damage than good (and paved the way for all the bull**** that is now the "war on terror").

When even the US government does not require a piss test for a secret clearance it seems way out of line for regular commercial companies that are nominally white-collar employers to do so.

I've been fortunate enough that in each case their need for my skills was great enough that they ended up figuring out how to hire me without requiring the test and I like to think that in the process I've been able to use my clout to get some people to think about how pointless and invasive their corporate policies are. I'm sure that some of them just figured I was a long-haired druggie or an reasonable idiot for refusing to go with the flow, but as George Bernard Shaw said, "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

[nfpgasmask]

FARK the man. I have always worked for huge corporations (still do) and generally I hate it.

However, there is a plus side, if you can work it out. IMO, and from my experience working for big companies, things can go one of two ways.

1) They take advantage of you
2) You take advantage of them

If you can get to the point where you are definitely accomplishing #2, you can be sitting pretty cushy for a long time. But, if this isn't attainable than you are stuck with #1, and life can be hell. I don't know what kind of work you do, but speaking from an IT industry perspective, #2 can easily be attained with the right attitude. I'm 99% there already with my new job here in Reno. Granted, things get a little boring, but at least I have my sanity.

All that said, I would love to work for a small company someday. Somewhere were that genuinely appreciates me and the work I do, and were I can feel proud to work. Are there such places anymore?

Bart

[nfpgasmask]

Another note on the testing side of things. In general, I would say it sucks, I was tested here for this job in Reno, and I have even had hair tests done! Needless to say, I passed, like Wormy said, my college years are over.

But where I work now, testing is mandatory, but mostly for safety. There is a huge warehouse here and people driving fork trucks all over. Just last month we fired a guy who crashed his fork into a pole. He was drunk. And at work. So go figure, drug tests don't keep you from getting juiced up on your lunch break. So, basically the tests are bull $H|t to me, just like airport security and everything else. Just stay clean while you are looking, and once you get hired, smoke a rip in the morning and carry on. Just make sure you show up for work on time. :)

Bart

[WyrreJ]

Incomplete coverage is exactly what blows the entire safety argument out of the water, not only does it not prevent someone from drinking, or going without sleep for 48 hours, it also doesn't catch drugs like LSD where the concentration required to affect the user is orders of magnitude smaller than any feasible test can measure.

If a company was serious about safety and not just giving lip-service, they would use regular impairment testing -- tests that measure your ability to do certain short but complex tasks - the good ones will catch any sort of impairment -- pharmacological or otherwise.

[nocturnalVX]

...but I totally enjoy working there & look forward to going to work in the morning.

I think that says it all. I know the extra $$$ would be nice, but if you can live without it... why dread going into work every day?

[biju]

I understand (like many others) all too well the corporate circus/monkey show.

(i.e: "Dance, rummy! Dance! Now jump, rummy! Jump! Bwahahahhaha....)

I back you 100% dub! How great that must have felt to say that! Some of us are with you in spirit on this one!!!

Kudos.

-bij.

[Kenny]

Hapiness first. :)
Money second.

But then again, for us hapiness is pampering our VX - and that is not cheap. :(

You could take the fancy job and use the extra cash to buy a fake "member" with "clean" sample :p
http://www.ureasample.com/buy-drug-test-solutions/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=1072

Just make sure to get the right skintone! :p


Again, Happines first.
You'll do the right thing Larry.

Cheers.

[ZEUS]

I guess I missed the whole point of your stance on this... drug testing was the reason you walked? Or corporate pricks were the reason? Probably corporate pricks forcing drug tests. I think there is an appropriate place for drug testing - namely, the medical profession. Otherwise, I think you guys are right - drug testing is incomplete when it comes to offering safety to others. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go toke one up! :p j/k

[Ldub]

I thank you all...& just wanted to share a few of the "high points" I left out of the original post in the interest of not wasting webspace. ;)

I showed up a little early, but dressed in shorts, old sneakers & a T-shirt that could best be described as "well worn".

As soon as the GM sat down I placed my voice recorder on his desk & said "you don't mind if I record this do ya ?" He said what for ?, to which I replied : I learned a LOT the last time I worked for you guys.

When I was let go last time, it was because I had gotten a DUI & they couldn't have me driving a company vehicle due to insurance reasons.
I brought up the fact that there have been a couple of instances since then where other employees have had the same thing happen & they're still driving company vehicles...& he is one of them...I told him that I didn't appreciate the "double standard' of those who smooch ***** having the rules bent for them....he didn't have much to say, something about not being able to change history. :rolleyes:

I know there are more highly amusing bits on the recorder, but I hate the sound of my own voice when I hear it reproduced, so maybe I'll just leave it at that. :)

[biju]

As soon as the GM sat down I placed my voice recorder on his desk & said "you don't mind if I record this do ya ?" He said what for ?, to which I replied : I learned a LOT the last time I worked for you guys.
CLASSIC!!!

-biju.

[VXIRONwoMAN]

If you enjoy what you do you never have to work a day in your life. So why do something you wouldn't enjoy? Is the money really worth the stress and anxiety and unhappiness! I don't think so! SO I give you a big two thumbs up! Way to stick it to the man! I would have done the same thing. A+
Cece

[tomdietrying]

Cece's right. If you enjoy your job,(from your post you do), your getting paid for doing something you really like. Not too many people have a job like that. That's what you call a blessing.

First, take the job because you like it. It pays well and you get benefits. Second, take Kenny's advice. If you get caught, what are they going to do?

Can't wait to see you at Elephant Hill.

Peace.
Tom

p.s.
It fills good to stand up to the Man every now and then doesn't it? LOL

[Chopper]

Who, and what comes and goes from your body, is you're business. Never do something you don't want to.....particularly for money. Your life is an eyeblink long, don't waste an instant of it. (Besides,ya don't sell your soul for 40k...our detailer made 37 last year :confused: find your own path...the Gods gave everyone a talent, exploit it.) And good for you! wayne

[Ldub]

Who, and what comes and goes from your body, is you're business. Never do something you don't want to.....particularly for money. Your life is an eyeblink long, don't waste an instant of it. (Besides,ya don't sell your soul for 40k...our detailer made 37 last year :confused: find your own path...the Gods gave everyone a talent, exploit it.) And good for you! wayne

My sentiments exactly...bending to the mans will would make my existence seem so whore like that I wouldn't be able to look myself square in the eye whilst brushing my teeth in the morning. :_beer:

[Cobrajet]

I was in your shoes several years ago. After being out of work for five months I was getting desperate. I took a job in DC that entailed nearly two hours commute (each way) on the train. I was hired to write computer code, but quickly discovered that this company hed very strict rules concerning formatting and version control. Not my style. After one week I turned in my badge. A couple weeks later I was offered the job I have now. I love the laid-back environment in my group, even though it is a HUGE company (we spit in the eye of the IT group!). I'm making more then the first job, and even though my commute is still over an hour each way, I have the option to work from home when I want.

Regardless, I still check the local listing for jobs in my town. I'd consider a pay cut to work closer, as long as the job is right. I've paid my dues, worked for "the man", and want a job I want to go to.

I did 20 years in the Navy, so drug testing is no biggie to me. I even conducted a few in my day.

[MrCrowley]

I can really appreciate this situation!

I have been living in FL for 8 months now, and just turned down the first full time job offered in the whole state to me. I didnt want to make 9.75 an hour babysitting college kids at stetson university ( after they thought I was the best applicant since sliced bread! lol). Ironically, I had been applying for other jobs there the whole time, but never got a call! After running a cost model, my wife and I cannot afford the >50% pay cut, 50% higher car insurance, .40 cent per gallon higher gas, 400% higher housing cost, etc. of living anywhere in florida. My parents suckered me down here from Alabama, where I was alredy being screwed by government contractors, and now I will probably move to NE Georgia. I just got back from a short term gig in Athens, GA that paid $24.00 (wohoo!) an hour. Do the math.

It leaves me completely speechless that decreasing education standards make degrees meaningless (since they are required to do menial jobs- it dumbs down the whole degree attainment principles), the "easiest" majors have the most lucrative pay, benefits in general are completely drying up ( I personally havent had health insurance in 6 years- much less anything else), Costs are skyrocketing- yet pay is staying level, the baby boomers have absolutely no clue on how to run a nation- nor can they present a single leader with the slightest credibility with the exception of Colin Powell (I hate both sides, but respect credibility) and even he has had enough of the bull, The younger generations ARE ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS- I wont even go there, the entire "democratic" system is being divided like the caste system of old- think nobles and peasants, has anyone else noticed the rise in nepotism recently due to the less competetive job market?

I have recently had interesting talks with the wife about things like: upper hospital management where she works getting better insurance plans and benefits, explaining why I did like the first poster here and left great jobs and/or companies, pay etc. because they were either treating people undemocratically, substandard, class divided, were no bid Iraq contract holders, nepotists, substandard pay, lucrative defense contract abusers, etc. She is now starting to see the big picture. Ahhhhh grasshopper. You are starting to use your mind! Lol.

Looks like I'm heading back to a remote hilltop paradise, working just for the pay, and enjoying every minute of the miniscule free time that I will be allocated. Any other ideas folks?

Good Luck original poster- you have my respect!!!!!



:_brickwal <- ME
:_iamwiths <- WIFE
:jump: <- Pets

[nfpgasmask]

Yeah, things are really screwed up right now. I've been making the same amount of money for 6 years, prices are going up up up with everything from food, to gas to home prices. Things are just sooooo off balance it seems.

I look at houses with the wife on the weekends here in Reno, and we are both like, "who the h3ll lives here in Reno who can afford these prices? And what the h3ll are they doing for a living?"

Am I missing something? WTF is all I can say about the state of economics in our country right now.

Bart

[Heraclid]

Well, I can't believe no one else seems to feel this way..

I don't have a problem in the world with drug tests. If you're clean, you've got nothing to worry about. If you're not, you shouldn't get hired.

I don't care how much of a two-faced jerk the guy may be, bottom line is it's HIS company, and he can do what he pleases with it. Would you step down over it if it were your company? Based on the fact that you think your termination was unjust, I think not. Obviously you think THEY should have gotten punished more for it, but you don't think YOU should have. That's a double standard too, now isn't it?

You don't have a right to be employed in accordance with your own rules. The job belongs to the company, it is the company's to give, and they have a right to set some standards and are fully reasonable in expecting you to meet them. If you don't like that, then you are quite free to work elsewhere.

Speaking of working somewhere else, you'll find that very few employers would ever entertain meeting you halfway on this one. This thing will probably follow you around and make it a lot harder to get a good job in the future. Any decent employer with a worthwhile job to fill will likely check you out good enough to find out about this. If you can find someone who doesn't, I can pretty much guarantee that place and that job will suck. So was it really worth it?

I realize everyone makes mistakes. But DUI is just one of those things that there should be no tolerance for whatsoever. I don't care what anybody does to themselves when it doesn't hurt anyone else, but you cross the line when you are out on the road endangering innocent lives. You get absolutely no sympathy from me.

And if you think this is too harsh, just be thankful you're not talking to my wife. Her mother was killed by a drunk driver. Compared to what she'd have to say to you, I'm being an absolute sweetheart.

[LeglizHemp]

========~~~

[Ldub]

Heraclid,

I can see the pain of losing someone close in your reply & I'm truly sorry for your loss, however, it wasn't me who caused your loss or anyone elses.
I have repaid my debt to society & am a better man for it...For this I am fortunate & thankful.
It's obvious you haven't made any mistakes that bear the burden of legal consequence, for that I commend you.
Had you read this thread more closely, you would realize I already have a job that I enjoy going to, working with an employer who I consider a friend. I work with he & his sons, more than for them.
While drug testing is something I disagree with in principle & practice, it wasn't the entire issue.
Working for a company that has one set of standards for some who are producing top shelf work in a timely manner, & another set for those who are out golfing with the owner...well, lets just say it always made me feel all creepy inside & I don't care to fit in to that reality.
My decision was based not solely on policies I find demoralizing in general, but also on being true to myself & to an employer I also consider a friend
In closing, I would like to wish you well & say no hard feelings, I appreciate your side of the argument.
Also, kudos on a very stern lecture & I'm quite sure your wife could deliver one that's even better...but I don't think I could take another. :rolleyes:
To the rest of you...sorry for the "manifesto". ;)

[ZEUS]

I realize everyone makes mistakes. But DUI is just one of those things that there should be no tolerance for whatsoever. I don't care what anybody does to themselves when it doesn't hurt anyone else, but you cross the line when you are out on the road endangering innocent lives. You get absolutely no sympathy from me.

And if you think this is too harsh, just be thankful you're not talking to my wife. Her mother was killed by a drunk driver. Compared to what she'd have to say to you, I'm being an absolute sweetheart.

I admit I have done some very very stupid things while drunk. Things I am not proud of, including driving... very very reckless driving! I could say I was young and stupid; and, well, drunk, but I know (now) there is no excuse for endangering people's lives. I am lucky and thankful I never did harm anyone. However, the police have figured out how much money they can get by pulling over people who aren't neccesarily drunk; but have had a drink or two. So they have lowered the legal drinking limit to gain more money while saying they have done it for our safety. BS :rolleyes: In that sense, I really don't think a DUI is a DUI is a DUI. That is MY perception of what they have done and it pisses me off.

There are people going on long distance road trips without pulling over for a break... people talking on the cell phone while driving, tough guys with bad vision too vain to wear glasses, people lighting cigarettes, messing with their ultra-hip car stereos, eating, and what have you (insert background porno music here), that are more dangerous than a person who has had two Utah beers or even two Colorado beers. And say you are responsible enough to have had just one drink and then get pulled over for some other reason, the cop gets all high and mighty and feels justified in telling you they can't get a reading on their breathilizer, "so we are going to have to take you to the station for a urine analysis or blood test. We will have your car towed and impounded while you are in detox." Maybe you are clean, maybe you are not, but if you stand up for your rights, the cop will just say "the subject did not cooperate", and at your "DUI trial" you will be fined for standing up for your rights! So in my must-be-flawed-logic, :rolleyes: I say, "Stick it to the man in every way you can because that is what he is doing to you!"

And BTW, I had a sober friend pick me up at a bar in which I was talking to drunk cops I had never met before. They drove themselves from the bar, one was pulled over while drunk, he flashed his badge, and was allowed to continue home and do it again whenever he wanted to. That cop told me things like that point blank with a smile on his face - like driving drunk was an installed company benefit!

Ldub repaid his debt as he said - and it even affected his employment situation. Yet the other people with DUI's employed there were treated differently... "like driving drunk was an installed company benefit!" Don't you see Ldub was standing up to someone who was "playing favorites" in the same fashion as the police mentioned! Do you think it is OK to allow someone to operate "HIS OWN BUSINESS" in that way as well?

Please drink responsibly.

[WyrreJ]

I don't have a problem in the world with drug tests. If you're clean, you've got nothing to worry about. If you're not, you shouldn't get hired.Try eating a poppy-seed bagel or taking pseudophed for that sinus headache the morning of your next drug test and see how quickly your attitude changes about having nothing to worry about.

While we are at it, lets check for STDs, if you are clean you've got nothing to worry about, but if you've picked up something it must mean you are an adulterer and shouldn't be allowed in the workplace, you'll probably harass someone.

Let's also check for anti-depressents, because if you are taking some of those then you must be a time-bomb waiting to go off. Can't have anyone going postal at the office.

Let's also do a background check and see if you have any speeding tickets, because too many speeding tickets means a lack of respect for authority and that's not a safe attitude for someone in the workplace.

If your knowledge and experience make you a critical asset to the company, we can't have you do anything like off-roading during the weekend, that would be too dangerous. The risk to your health, and thus the risk to the company is unacceptable.

It comes down to basic principles of respect for the individual. Do you want your employer to tell you how to live your life outside of work? You think my examples are over the top? Some of them have become common place already. The only difference between you and I is where we draw the line, and if people keep dismissing the importance of the issue, society will keep drawing the line further and further into our private lives.

[tomdietrying]

Everyone deserves a second chance. Just, look at G.W. Bush. In his younger days, he got a DUI. Think about it. Where we would be if he didn't get a second chance.

Uhhhhh sorry.............wrong example. :p You know what I mean.

Peace.
Tom

[Ldub]

Everyone deserves a second chance. Just, look at G.W. Bush. In his younger days, he got a DUI. Think about it. Where we would be if he didn't get a second chance.

Uhhhhh sorry.............wrong example. :p You know what I mean.

Peace.
Tom


:p Buhhh-Zinggggg.... ;)