Lift thread to end all lift threads

[tbigity]

(i hope) :confused:

I am sure that most of this will be redundant to most of you seasoned vx.info patrons...or that most of it will seem juvenile for most of you offroad pros and experienced mechanics, but I feel that I (and many others) need a little help. I spent about 3 hours last night reading nothing but threads on lifts...all different kinds, here in the forums. I have several questions, and please don't take this as another guy saying "man I want to do that some day" and then never getting around to it. I finally got an everyday truck that I can rack the miles up on, so I am ready to verticalize the vx.

Basically, what I found is this:

There are 4 main types of vx lifts:

the calmini
Nice, all put together, though a bit overpriced and has some unnecessary stuff in it. Good for the novice looking to buy it and have a garage slap it on, but not anything a real car guy would go for. Kinda the way Windows works for the majority of computer users but most true techies prefer Linux or Mac. I found a great price on them here (http://www.casanovaspeedshack.com/xcart/product.php?productid=17759&js=n) .

ball join flip
I found a wonderful thread here (http://www.planetisuzoo.com/articles.htm/78) that pretty much holds the hand of even the most inexperienced mechanic and walks you through it. Nice, inexpensive, quality, low-time lift that will also give you more suspension down-travel and not require any major tweaking.

Torsion cranking
Being a non-mechanically-inclined person, I could use some explanation on this one. (or is it not a lift at all, just supplementary to the bj flip?)

OME 919s
Again, could use some help with this one. As far as I can tell this is simply replacement shocks and coils that are larger? Does this require much work/modifying? I found a good place (http://www.rocky-road.com/vehicross.html) to find an OME 3" suspension lift, though I am not sure if these are 912s or 919s. Ldub tells me you can get the 919s from INDY 4x4.

My Question In All This...
How much of this is redundant? I mean, if I get the calmini, it seems like I would be able to do the BJ flip and add an extra couple inches to that. Is that right? Is the BJ flip more or less a leveling modification, bringing the front suspension as high as the rear suspension (since there is no info on flipping the back ball joints, if such a thing even exists)? The OME suspension lifts (both 912s and 919s)...is that all there is to this lift? Getting the new suspension and installing it? What is the technical difference (aside from the obvious) with the heavy and medium duty coils? The difference in the 912s/919s? Could you make an uber lift with the calmini, ball joint flip, torsion cranking, AND 919s? (I told you that I was a mechanical newbie).

Speaking for myself and anyone else scrambling around the forums trying to decide which is best for them, I thank all of you pros in advance for your help.

[Ldub]

I won't address the cal mini lift, as IMO, it's a waste of money for a bunch of stuff you don't need.

Cranking the T-bars creates lift in the front suspension by applying additional torsional load to the lower control arm. Crawl under & give your front suspension a look some time...see if you can figure out how it carries it's load without any springs.(coil or leaf)

OME 912's are the preferred replacement coil around these here parts, & that's all you really need to buy...Indy 4x if you want them now, Rocky Road if you want lower price & don't mind waiting.
I'm not sure about using 919's on the VX, might be too much spring, I used them on Jim's Trooper on Matt's (Indy4X) recommendation. Some have gone to longer shocks in conjunction with 912's, but unless you're going for more lift via 912's & 2" poly spacers, I don't see the need. I've been running 912's & a 1" spacer for about a yr. with stock shocks & no problems. I added the spacer due to extra weight I carry.
I would really like to see someone post a definitive comparison of all OME rear coils that fit the VX...that right there would be some handy information !

There are no back ball joints, it's a solid rear axle.

The "uber lift" you mention isn't really a possibility, as you are limited in how high you can go by the front CV angles...much higher than what we're talking about here & you should start thinking about a differential drop bracket in the front, a body lift, or SAS conversion. (use the search on those for more confusing info.) ;)

Also, when lifting, I would recommend a set of stainless steel braid brake lines, (again, Indepent4X) they are a little longer to compensate for the lift, & give the pedal a firmer feel than the stock rubber lines.

Good Luck

[transio]

Been a while since I've posted to VX.info. :) Something pulled me back here... I think I sensed that Ty wanted to lift my VX (yes, Ty, it will always be mine, mwahahaha!) I say go full custom and do a SAS. :D

PS - How's everyone doing? Ty, how's my baby?

[transio]

BTW, torsion bars are like 1-ended leaf springs. They have an adjustment crank because with time they tend to sag, but you can probably crank them up all the way to get a bit of lift. If you do this, it would create a positive camber (bottoms of the front wheels closer together than the tops) because of the unequal-length a-arms up front, and this is a very bad setup by all measurements, so people might simultaneously flip the ball joint to correct the suspension geometry up front when cranked.

IIRC, most VXers only "crank" the torsion bars down to create a drop.

[tbigity]

Ldub and Steve, thanks so much guys. I cant wait to get to work on Protie (what I named her).

Ldub, are you saying that, literally, all I need to do, is get the OME 912s and install them to get some more lift? Wow, there is a bunch of wasted stuff in the calmini kit.

And steve, thanks so much for explaining what was happening with the T-bar cranking. I am not a total moron when it comes to cars, so if you spell it out like that, I can pretty much get it. After all, I did put the lift on my silverado that is in my gallery with just me and a buddy...I just didnt really pick up much of the chassis/suspension lingo I was hoping to...so thanks for aiding.

So, ok...how about this then (let me know if it is possible good/bad idea):
I get the 912s and put them on (with proper adult supervision :) ) and do a bj flip / torsion bar cranking (and the braided brake line). Then of course, my next stop is an alignment shop. Does that sound like it should be all?

Thanks so much guys, I appreciate it.

[tbigity]

steve, bare with my ignorrance, but this is a term I have heard several times here on the forum, and I researched it one time and got a vague idea, buuuut...


SAS?

(i know one of the Ss is "suspension"....does that count for anything? :rolleyes: )

[etlsport]

solid axle swap

[tbigity]

:eek:
you gotta be kidding me.

All that build up and i was horribly wrong. Story of my life

*applies mud to face*

So...the SAS, i am guessing that replacing the entire IFS and replacing it with a solid axel would not be a small undertaking. Anyone here done this? Insanely expensive? Benefits?

[ZEUS]

Some of us contemplate an SAS and I have heard someone who knows someone who has done it :rolleyes: but I have never seen any proof that a solid axle VX exists! I have seen Troopers and Rodeos and Amigos with a solid axle swap though and they perform rather well offroad. I can't make up my mind if I should do it or not, but Triathlete is all about doing it, SPAZZ has started collecting parts for it, Alaska VX might be underway with his, Dstruction might already have done it...


Back to your original question. Ascinder posted some info on these adjustable coil mounts sometime ago and I think he installed them on his VX with good results. These would allow you to keep your stock coils and give you the ability to fine tune your lift height in the rear - then you just crank on the t-bars until the VX sits the way you want! So you have the option of lifting your VX 1" then 2" and then back again, all by turning a wrench or two!

There are things you should do to your VX when you are adding bigger tires though. Like Ldub mentioned, get braided brakelines - but I suggest also getting HD tie rods bcuz the stock ones are WEAK! And if your VX doesn't already have them, get the f/r greasable poly swaybar bushings. Otherwise, yes, it is just as simple as cranking the t-bars to lift the front and adding either a poly coil spacer, or the adjustable coil mount, or new coil springs, or all of it, to lift the rear. The rest is just stuff to go along with your now lifted VX - bigger tires, brake lines, tie rods, bj flip, poly bushings - then the optional stuff... deeper gears, lockers, locking hubs, front axle diff drop brackets, stronger control arms, extended panhard bar, shocks, bump stops - then the toys... winch, rocker guards, bumpers, diff guards, skid plates, roll cage, solid axle, lower x-case gears, welder, on-board air, etc............ and we're broke :(

Keep us posted on what you decide!!

[Triathlete]

There is no completed SAS that I know of. Spazz started colecting parts. Spazz was planning on using leaf springs. D Struction sold his VX to someone on this board (sorry, can't remember your name) in Alaska and it does not have an SAS...only a suspention/body lift.
WHEN I do mine it will be a linked suspension. Cost will depend on how much of the work you can do. I plan on doing all the prep work on mine but since I don't weld I will leave that up to the pro's (especially since my life could depend on it).

[TEN36VX]

I have OME 919's on mine. about 2 1/2 - 3" of lift (dont remember exactly). the extra stiffness gives it the same riding charactersitics as stock, only taller.

I know of two shops that are up to an SAS project. I would probably go with Stric9 (http://www.stric9engineering.com ) (darkengineering (http://vehicross.info/forums/member.php?u=1665)) if and when I could afford it.

[ZEUS]

If your shocks are worn out this would be a good, although expensive, lift option: http://www.independent4x.com/item.html?UCIDs=839915%7C1263303&PRID=1554300
Add the HD tie rods and you would have a great setup. I would still consider adding a longer panhard bar or a new bracket for the stock one, as well as a front diff drop, when adding this much lift.

[Nerve_Gas]

One of these days I'm going to swap over to a linked solid front with coil overs front and rear. But that will be once I get my RAM Powerwagon. I'm still recovering from all the work we did to my VX. Everything is still running fine and I'll have some new pics soon. I've been way to busy with work and starting an industrial salvage company.

As far as an uber lift I don't know what to tell you. It all depends on the kind of stuff your going to be doing. Like, is it going to be a daily driver or purely a trail truck? Do you like having good mpg? What size tyres do you want to run? How hard do you hit off road? So on and so forth. Once you figure all that out you then you can figure out how to make the uber lift for you.

[tbigity]

Thanks so much for the help guys, the overwhelming response is very appreciated. Sorry for my delay in getting back to you...been in Vegas on biz for a week and have my big annual tournament on Memorial Day that I am pulling my hair out for.

Zues, that is a tremendous link you sent me in your post...looks to be pretty much everything a guy needs, the ease of the calmini (everything in one place) but with no fluff, and a lot of the stuff that you all said I would need/should get (braided brake line, bump stops, poly spacers, ball joint spacers, etc). Would that particular kit fit the VX with little/no modding?

To answer your ?s, sadly, I must admit that I am not a hardcore offroader. As much as it pains me to say it, I watch some of the videos of Moab and cringe at putting my Proty through that, though I know they can mostly handle it. She will not be an every-day driver, she will pretty much be a tricked truck. I want her to look oh so sweet! I have done this before, when I was poor(er) and only 16 with my Ford Ranger. I learned from that that look is fine, but function is better, even if not used. Everything was for looks. It was 2WD but had a 3" lift...which was all body, no suspension. Had a nice hood...all hood scoop, no function (weak little 4.0 V6 under the bonnet). So from that I have learned that if you are gunna do it, do it right. Though I think your truck might be a bit tall for me. And I don't care about MPG...technically, *cough* I use my company card to fill the tank since I got the owner's permission since I do so much running around for the company. So, while I will not be driving it that much anyway, fuel economy is not a worry for me.

I would pretty much want to run about 33" (maybe 34s) under her. With enough lift to accommodate that big of a shoe and still be able to steer her, I think it would look great without being too much.

As far as power goes, get this, I have got my mechanic looking for a nice, low mileage, diesel for me. To me, there is nothing like a turbo diesel. Power, speed, torque, and god I love that smell!

[ZEUS]

Zeus, that is a tremendous link you sent me in your post...looks to be pretty much everything a guy needs, the ease of the calmini (everything in one place) but with no fluff, and a lot of the stuff that you all said I would need/should get (braided brake line, bump stops, poly spacers, ball joint spacers, etc). Would that particular kit fit the VX with little/no modding?

That kit is for the VX and later Troop so the only mods needed should be the removal of old hardware! :)