BS or BS?

[Ascinder]

Just reading the July Popular Science and saw an ad for these new spark plugs. Here's a link.
http://www.pulstarplug.com/aboutus.html

Just thought I'd collect some opinions. At $25 a pop, that's $150 plus shipping for spark plugs. I know many enthusiasts here have Denso Iridiums and NGK Iridiums as well as the multitude of platinum plugs, quad plugs, etc. Seems people tend to swear by the Iridiums which I think can be had for about half the price of these beasties and last twice as long(allegedly). My overall point is that I have slightly over 100K on the engine and so it's (past) due for plugs. I don't know if they had been replaced prior or what. I was having reservations before shelling out $12-13 per plug for Iridiums, but, I have a very strict policy about only putting parts back in the vehicle that are the best I can get. My question is: Do you think these are BS(Bu\\$h!t) or BS(Better Spark)?

[PHO2GR4]

I guess you need to weight the value equation of whether these plugs are measurably better than the Iridiums. I'm digging the NGKs in my VX. Maybe they are in the middle of BS and BS. Maybe they're some better s#!t...

[kelvin]

i vote hell no. a website of graphics and colorful charts that don't really tell you anything... plus what ignites 99.9999% of your fuel/air mixture is the fuel/air mixture next to it. I don't see how these can hurt (since they're just a spark plug with a capacitor) but i wouldn't try to justify it with power or mpg increases. the only graphic that they had that said anything was that the actual explosive pressure was higher at the point of ignition. assuming these plugs are actually capable of making gas into super gas, you're seals are made for specific tolerances.

then again i could be wrong. i would love to hear a real-world review, but for my $, i'll be sticking to the iridiums. it's a quality plug.

[Ascinder]

I just wonder how true the FAQ's section is. They maintain that by using these wonderful new gadgets, you will save enough fuel to recoup the costs. With today's current gas prices I can see that happening, even at a very small amount saved. But I wonder if it would be a perceptible, measurable amount, otherwise how would you know? Sounds a little like The Emperors New Clothes theory. Maybe I'll get them and be our guinea pig.

[JHarris1385]

Do a goggle serach to see if anyone else has used these. Maybe an epinion is lurking around on them. Or a review from a auto mag or consumer report.

On the other hand I have always wondered how these worked in comparsion to these and Iridiums.

http://vehi.world.coocan.jp/multi/multi.htm

http://www.toa-corp.co.jp/eg/engindexwithm.htm

[Ascinder]

That is pretty interesting about the 360 plugs. It would definitely eliminate the "post shadow" of the plug so you would get a more even, better distributed burn. On the plugs I posted, we'll have to wait and see for the results, they don't begin to ship until the 18th of this month, so reviews won't be out for at least awhile afterwards. I just wonder how much is gimmick and hype, versus real world performance.

[Chopper]

Stick with the iridium plugs. They are working for you at something like %99.99927 efficiency... You would have to drive a very long way to recoup the difference in cost, and they will have no performance gains at all, that you will be able to feel any way.

[JAFO]

I haven't researched this a lot but the senior editor of OffRoad.com speaks highly of the DireckHits spark plug which is a related product, created by Combustion Technology Products Corp.

DirectHits product review
http://orc.off-road.com/offroad/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=298130

Pulstar claims that a standard spark plug produces a 50 watt spark for 30 millionths of a second. Their "Pulse Plug" produces a 1 million watt spark for an unspecified, but drastically shorter, length of time.

The question is "Is a high intensity spark over a short period better at igniting fuel, than a less intensive spark for a longer duration?"


Side note: Wankel rotary engines use two spark plugs per chamber. A leading and a delayed trailing.

[Ldub]

I haven't researched this a lot but the senior editor of OffRoad.com speaks highly of the DireckHits spark plug which is a related product, created by Combustion Technology Products Corp.

DirectHits product review
http://orc.off-road.com/offroad/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=298130

Pulstar claims that a standard spark plug produces a 50 watt spark for 30 millionths of a second. Their "Pulse Plug" produces a 1 million watt spark for an unspecified, but drastically shorter, length of time.

The question is "Is a high intensity spark over a short period better at igniting fuel, than a less intensive spark for a longer duration?"


Side note: Wankel rotary engines use two spark plugs per chamber. A leading and a delayed trailing.

The direct hits looks to be an add on that wouldn't fit under our coil packs...not trying to rain on your parade...just skeptical. :rolleyes:

[Dino]

I love how they claim to just pull "watts" out of thin air!!

I call a big ol' BS on this one. Put them on the shelf next to the Split-Fire plugs! :p

[JAFO]

The direct hits looks to be an add on that wouldn't fit under our coil packs...not trying to rain on your parade...just skeptical.
Good point. However, as reference to proof of concept it is still valid.


I love how they claim to just pull "watts" out of thin air!!

I call a big ol' BS on this one. Put them on the shelf next to the Split-Fire plugs! :p
They're not pulling energy out of thin air. They embedded a capacitor inside the spark plug. The energy input to their "Pulse Plug" is the same as a normal spark plug. However in the "Pulse Plug" the capacitor stores up the energy and releases a higher wattage of electric current for a drastically shorter period of time.

So back to my original question, actually let me rephrase the question. "Is a high intensity spark over a short period better at combustion, than a less intensive spark for a longer duration?"

[JAFO]

http://www.pulstarplug.com/sm_version.jpg

I believe the theory behind the PulStar Pulse Plug's plasma ball is as follows:

"With your spark plug, as you raise the voltage across the metal electrodes, an electron avalanche will cause a region of plasma to "ignite." This typically occurs at a sharp edge, but if there is a dust-mote floating between the electrodes, it can start at the surface of the dust. The region of plasma grows. It grows in somewhat the same way that a forest fire grows: it causes the air adjacent to itself to "ignite" and form more plasma. Plasmas in strong e-fields tend to form into narrow filaments. They are very much like growing crystals: crystals can grow like "frost" rather than like bulk polyhedra. "Frostlike" growth occurs when the growth is very fast, and the tip of the crystal grows faster than any other part. With plasmas, if growth is slow, you get a region of glow-discharge or "saint elmo's fire", while if growth is fast, you get narrow spines or treelike fractal shapes where the tips grow the fastest. Remember that sparks are conductive. A narrow spark is like a wire, and when you place a high voltage upon a wire, you will see an electric discharge at its tip. When the "wire" is MADE of electric discharge, then the tip grows longer and longer by converting the air into "more spark."

As the "plasma tree" grows outwards, remember that plasmas are conductive. The growing "tree" is like an extending wire. When this "plasma wire" touches the other electrode, it explodes! It creates a bridge across the high voltage power supply, and the power supply suddenly creates an enormous current through the conductive spark. The flash and noise of a spark is the same as the flash and noise of a wire placed across a large battery: a spark is a short-circuit. Yet sparks can also grow outwards without bridging the gap between the electrodes. In this case they look like silent blue plasma fingers, not noisy incandescent explosions."

William Beaty, Electrical Engineer

For further information please see the complete article at:
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-04/955373778.Ph.r.html

[Ascinder]

That sounds very interesting...I myself just watched the video comparison of the traditional plug and the Pulse plug, and how much faster the flame front moved. To me it makes sense to want that so that more gas could theoretically be burned in the same time period. More complete combustion and sooner=more burned fuel/less waste, etc. Burning faster also equals burning hotter, so more pressure, and consequently more power. The claim that the Iridiums are 99.999% efficient is a somewhat relative term. They may be very efficient from a conductive standpoint, but that doesn't necessarily make them ideal. What are the so efficient in doing? I find it absolutely naive to believe they can be so close to 100% efficient at burning all the gas off in every different type of cylinder/piston/valve system that they are used in-sorry,but I'm calling some heavy BS on that. Also, higher horsepower can lead to higher efficiency if other factors are right. The only concern I have about the spark kicking off the flame front so much faster is detonation. There's a reason gas is used in engines the way it is. So you get a "slow", even burn, not an sharp, severe explosion like in a gun. I think the jury is definitely still out on this.

[etlsport]

has anyone tried these plugs yet? all the ads look promising.. but we all know ads mean nothing

amazon reviews are split 50/50 5 star ratings and 1 star ratings.. everyone who doesnt like them has the same description.. rough idle, misfires.. occasionally black smoke and a whine through the radio.. one guy said they fried a coil pack.. another said his ECU fried a few weeks after install.. then others said they saw 1-2mpg increases (although one of them highly recommended a hydrogen generator and a conversion kit to run your engine on alcohol)

[tom4bren]

I'm not buying it. Maybe I'm way to simplistic in my thinking but:

We all know how well gasoline burns - if it didn't, it wouldn't be our fuel of choice. The spark just gets the process going. I don't think that 'post shadow' or multiple sparks or hotter sparks make enough of a difference to be worth any extra cost.

What does make a better spark plug is one that minimizes post erosion for longer life and by design isn't subject to fouling due to build up of carbon.

If they made that much of a difference wouldn't they come stock on the high end performance cars?

[circmand]

If they work they work 100% of the time. At 50-50 rating you have the BS artists the dreamers etc.

[Hotsauce]

All you need is enough spark to ignite the mixture. More spark than that *if there is more* doesn't give better burn propigation.

I've seen similar items many times. Most are just an additional spark gap in series. ie: Nology.

If this was the greates thing ever NGK or Champion would have bought them out, and these plugs would be in EVERY new car today.

99% of the gas saving gizmos out there either don't work, or actually use more gas. Don't drink the Kool-Aid.

John C.

[pbkid]

i would stick with a good set of NGK's...they are specifically designed for japanese cars and work the best of any plug...

i have tried every gizmo and brand on my integra...every one of them makes it misfire...NGK's...no problem....

every japanese car mechanic i have talked to says never run anything but NGK in japanese cars...so thats what i do, and i get great mileage and power...

[Riff Raff]

TOM4BREN--- Ditto. I completely agree with everything you stated. You hit everything right on the mark. Well said.

Especially, "High Performance" cars like Lamborghini, Ferrari, Viper, Shelby, McClaren, ZR-1 & ZO6 Corvettes, etc. If we look at those cars as a Mentor/Role Model of what is essentially good by OEM factory standards, and using likewise products in our VX's, then we as VX owner's will be OK.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

before I went to Moab last year....I considered these as replacements for my stock plugs...but found lots of conflicting info on them on the web. Bottom line...I went with the Denso Iridium's because I couldn't find enough positive feedback on the Pulstar's.

P.S.---I had great luck with SplitFire's in my Harley...that bike seemed to LOVE them! More MPG...more neck snapping torque! Put them in my Ram and I didn't notice any gains...but that bike sure seemed to likey!

[tom4bren]

"TOM4BREN--- Ditto. I completely agree with everything you stated. You hit everything right on the mark. Well said."

Whoah - I'm not used to anyone taking me serious around here:). I'd better be more careful about what I say from now on.