LEAKAGE. Do not know wur its coming from

[JHarris1385]

So I have noticed a leakage on this part shown below (via thanks for ascinders photo.) The leak might be from above dripage. But it looks like it is coming from the area of connection between the green piece (sorry for lack of names of parts) and the plate that it connects to. I will try to take pictures of mine tonight but it is REAL dirty underneath from a O/R trip yesterday with Joe = JKstephens on here.

I also seem or might be making up a noise now from that location when slowing down or coasting I beilive.

What could cuase this or what could be leaking onto it?


http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT0286.jpg

[Triathlete]

Sounds like you may have a bad seal in there allowing your diff fluid to leak out.

[Dino]

Most likely the seal in the axle housing. #6 in the drawing here...

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/front_axle_assy.jpg


CHECK THE FLUID LEVEL IN THE FRONT DIFF ASAP!!!!

[JHarris1385]

Where would you get a seal for that and would the seal go between the green round part and the plate? Part numbers would be nice too but thats asking for a lot. How easily replaceable is a seal there? I plan on doing my diffs and trans this weekend. I do hear noise from the front axel.

If it is not that and dripping from above what could it be? I plan to wash it well tonight and take a look agian tomorrow to further diag it. IT does seem to be oil colored.

Thanks for the help.

[Dino]

I'm pretty sure it's the axle seal. Any oil coming from above would have to get past the hot exhaust manifold and it would produce smoke. Smell the fluid and you'll know. Gear oil has a vey distinctive smell.

It's a big job involving the removal of the drive axle. The seal goes into the axle housing, then the axle goes in.

The seal is a common part and should be available in any auto parts store by application... i.e. year, make, model.

It is Timken part #710516. I checked with my parts guy here. Costs less than $20.

You have probably lost some diff oil and that's why you're hearing noise. Be sure to look at the fluid you drain from the diff for metallic glittery stuff, in which case, you've worn the gear faces on the ring and pinion gears. Not the end of everything, but not good either. Let's hope that's not the case. ;)

Good luck!

[JHarris1385]

Not to sure if I am up to the challenge of the adding that seal? Willing to learn. How hard would that be?

I might as well go look at it tonight and change the oil? 75W90 right? How many bottles?

If it is the seal is there a temporary fix?

Thanks for the info and the diagram.

[Chopper]

You may want to go 85 or 90/140 this time of year, go back to 75/90 in winter.The job itself is a fairly complex and time consuming one. If you are totally green on 4x4 front ends, it would be a good idea to,at the very least, have some help from a bud who has cracked one before. You may want to farm this one out...it won't be cheap though. If you had the Helm manual, and a decent set of tools(snap ring pliers, torque wrench etc.) and a bunch of time, you could do it. Second time through, it goes much more quickly :p How are your CV's, tie rod ends,wheel bearings and such...you'll be in there anyway :p Good luck either way you go. Wayne

[Ascinder]

Having just done a lot of work on my front end, I can tell you that it's a PITA to replace that seal. You have to tear out a helluva lot to get at it, and while you're in there it sure wouldn't hurt to replace the inner bearings(I did) since they are pretty cheap, and after you know what this is like, you're probably not going to want to do it again. Be very careful getting your upper and lower balljoints separated. I tore two of the boots on mine, and just ended up buying four new complete units. You pill probably need a balljoint separator(AKA pickle fork) and a bearing press helps a lot too. I know mine were in plenty tight and after soaking them well in advance with PB blaster and beating on them with a 5lb. sledge for quite awhile, they still didn't want to come out. The book is goin to tell you that you need some special tools, but they can be ignored if you have a little ingenuity and some common sense. I would take a good hard look at those CV boots while you're in there. Mine were showing signs of dry rot cracking from the nasty desert I live in. Good luck.

[JHarris1385]

I would have to say I have now become completely discouraged to do this repair. I wish I was more confident with this. I would really like to learn this but am to afriad I will damage something in the process. I forgot to upload the pics I took last night. It seems like it is just not a slow leak but spinning/spitting out of the gap between the two becuase the metal above it is wet as well.

[Chopper]

Take it to a Cv/axle joint. The only downside is you won't get to do all those bearing, boot, tie rod end swaps, unless your pockets are deep.Swaping the front axles entirely is probably the cheapest and easiest way to go...I would be inclined to do both at the same time though.

[JHarris1385]

Damn now I am worried.

[Dino]

Hate to add to the injury but here's some news you should know.

It suddenly dawned on me in the middle of my day, " hey that dude has a bad bearing and that's why he's seeing fluid slinging out, AND hearing a noise. He needs to get in there soon!!!"

Yep. I think you have a bad bearing, the seal is completely worn out because of the excess play in the bearing and that's why it's leaking.

You need to do something soon!! You could do this I think. Yes it's intimidating but you can do it and you should because labor to do that seal is gonna be (educated guess) about $400 - $500.

At any rate, I think you should take action soon and at the very least, top off the diff oil!!!!!! :cool:

[Ascinder]

Man, just do it. The bearings and seals are around $70-90 from St. Charles. I don't remember offhand and that is for both sides. You'll also want to remember to order the snap rings that go in there. Tools you'll need are snap ring pliers, a fish scale for doing the outer retention rings and possibly a bearing press of some kind, all of which can be had cheaply. Plus the regular metric toolset for the VX. Not including the diff. oil you should be able to get this done for around $100 and a weekend(give or take). Just be careful in the areas already mentioned and you'll be fine. If you do plan on doing this just send me a PM and I'll give you and in depth run down in all it's gory detail. Plus you can talk smack to everyone who hasn't torn apart the front end of their vehicle before and call them little sissy nancy girls. :p

[IndianaVX]

john,
if you do do this....(uh hu hu, i said "do do") or any other job with lots of parts, dont be ashamed to get a vidio camera to tape things, so you can remember how it goes back easier, ive had to do it before. also, zip lock bags with the white labels to write on with a marker, for holding bolts and labeling where they go. and maybe even a big ole' piece of cardboard to lay stuff out on like a big "exploded view", and then you can make notes on the cardboard pointing to the part.....you know?? you can ususally go to a lumber yard like lowes, and in the plywood section, they sometimes have 4' x 8' pieces of cardboard to protect the plywood during shipping that they will give you. just some things ive done on complicated proceduers, that have paid off.
believe me, if you get it apart, and have something come up where a day or two pass, you can forget alot.
good luck with it.

[JHarris1385]

Well by gawd. That what I say to that. Ill be honest and give some background on me. I have never done anything past an oil change till I got this VX. SInce I have done alot and am very willing to learn more to become more confident. So I have decided to do this.

I dont have an extensive library of tools but I have been buying them as needed. I do not have an impact wrench as it was earlier stated that I need one. Is this for sure. I have snap ring pilers already. Just got them with multiple tips for the fuel pressure regulator install.

The problem is I am not good with names of parts and pieces to autos. But am once again willing to learn. So reading list of part names begins to confuse me at times. But so far I understand a good 80% of all that is mentioned.

So I need to drop this axel? How is this done? I do have two jacks and two stands.

Replace that seal. That is easily(?) found at an auto zone, O Reily's or at least on order?

And re pack my bearings?

All of which I have never done before, and the axel part and packing the bearings right kinda intimidate me. But I would rather learn and know how to next time vs. paying the bucks for a shop to do it. And I do have trust issues with things like that and I really dont have a family friend mechanic.

Would anyone have part numbers to all that is needed? Or would it be easier to take a list of what is needed to a parts store to make an order? Also it was mentioned this all could be done for under $100? Side note: I have been planning on doing some filter/fluid change to the tranny and the diffs for the last two weeks. So I might try to squeez all of this in on this weekend.

Thanks guys for all the help and support. That is what makes this site awesome. I am always talking about it. Thanks again.

?'s
Bearing pack?
Snap rings (I know what they are but where do they go and what are the numbers?)
Fish scale? We are not talking about the ones used to weigh a fish are we?

Chopper - How much does swapping it all out cost?

[Ldub]

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=11324&highlight=bearing+repack

Found that in about thirty seconds using a forums search. (bearing repack)
Pictures & everything...nice job Kenny!

[JHarris1385]

I sometimes forget about that serach button. How easy of a job is that, how much is a packer? And more importantly to me how easy is it to mess this job up and screw something else up in the process?

Man I have lots of questions.

[Ascinder]

Answers to your questions:

1) Yes it is the kind of fish scale for weighing fish. You need it to adjust the torque setting for that retention ring so you aren't over tightening your bearing loads on the outer bearings.
2) I have no idea why you would need an impact wrench, I never used one once during the entire process.
3) You can manually repack the bearing by hand and they will be fine, as long as you really take your time and make absolutely sure you get grease everywhere inside them.
4)The snap rings are used to hold the differential oil seals in place along with the bearings if I remember correctly. I think there are two per axle for what you are doing.
5)Chopper is referring to swapping out the CV joint axle assemblies which rumor has it can be found for around $80 rebuilt each Here: http://www.alldiscountautoparts.com/discountparts/buy.php?make_text=isuzu&ml=veh--001&model_text=vehicross&year=1999&part_name=axle_assembly&brand_name=arc&s=1&my=1
6) If you don't have one, get a torque wrench or be able to rent one from an auto parts store. You definitely don't want stuff haunting you later because you misapplied a torque setting.
7) Read the procedure over in the manual a lot you are only going to get more confused, then more familiar. I printed out the sections I was using so I could have the at the ready for reference and so I didn't get axle grease, etc on my computer keys ;)
You should be OK with the jackstand setup you have there. You may or may not need some cutoffs of wood to help distribute the weight more evenly when you jack on some places, and you want to make sure the back wheels are very securely blocked/chocked.

You do have to drop the axle, at least a little bit so you can maneuver the CV axles out. The bearings you are after are on them towards the insides. It is also a helluva lot easier to take the CV axles out with the differential brackets still on them. They will be just dangling and being held on by the oil seals and bearings. It is a tight fit getting them out. This is where you may have to have them pressed off. I have a light shop press at home. That's what I used.
Any more questions, let me know. I will try to get that walkthrough ready to send to you by tomorrow. I really don't have any pictures, but I can tell you exactly what sections of the manual to use and where you'll likely run into trouble spots.

[JHarris1385]

Thanks for all the help guys. I am busy at work for once today and do not have much time to reply. But I did find this on the web. It states that 75W90 is the equal to regular 10W40????????????

[Ascinder]

It states that 75W90 is the equal to regular 10W40????????????

Apples and oranges man, you are confusing differential gear oil with motor oil. The differential oil for the VX comes in pretty much two flavors: 75W90 and 75W140. They are different from normal motor oils. The are thicker and smell funky. I personally used the Mobil1 75W140 full synthetic and it was pricey ($18 a bottle I think) as hell. You can use an off brand non synthetic for far less, but personally I didn't want to chance it. You may also want pump for this stuff as it can sometimes be a PITA to fill the differential, although you can just try and use the bottle. I looked at the temperature ranges listed on the sides of both types of bottles and really couldn't find a compelling reason to use the 75W90 at all. The 140 is good across a far broader range and where I live the temps like to stay on the higher side, and then dip really low at night. If you are going to service the rear at the same time as the front don't forget to get a tube or bottle of limited slip differential additive(LSD) for the rear differential only.

[JHarris1385]

Well I almost got some fluid in there but even my pb blaster could not break that bolt loose. I did go to home depot and check the prices on an torque wrench and they said they do not carry them for rentals. The cheapest one I could find was near $200. I do have a small compressor at the house, that my bro uses for art (5gallon I think). That would do, if I was to find a wrench for rental right?

>A how-to on this one would greatly appreciated. <

I thought I posted the webiste with the comparision of oil last post but I guess I did not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_oil

yeah its wiki i know.

[JHarris1385]

This is on the drivers side. I just did a MS paint-job for you all. Since I have once again forgetton my camera sd card at home.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/front_axle_assy1.jpg

[etlsport]

j.. u sure u arent thinking of an impact wrench? u need an air compressor for that and they are a big more expensive.... a torque wrench looks just like a socket but the bottom has torque values on it... you can get them at most stores for $100 or less.. ive seen them as low as 15 from harbor freight, and from what i hear they work just as well or better than craftsman ones.. which are known to break easily

[JHarris1385]

So does and impact carry torque settings? From the posts above Ill need to be able to dial specific torques.

[etlsport]

no it sounds like u were looking at impact wrenches... what you actually need is a torque wrench... usually they arent hooked up to an air compressor and can be had for $100 or less

[JHarris1385]

I got confused and mixed the two when typing I was at work doing a report at the same time.

Earlier it was mentioned an impact wrench for removal.

Then a torque wrench to get the settings right. So Yeah I should have said this. Is it possible to get an impact wrench with torque settings?

If all fails I will buy just a torque wrench and use some pb blaster. I think the Harbor freight in my neck of the woods just opened. Are they normally cheaper than HD or Lowes, Sears?

[Ascinder]

You should be able to get a torque wrench to rent from most auto parts stores. Like etl said though, you can pick one up for pretty cheap at harbor freight and they work just fine. I personally use a harbor freight wrench, and being a little skeptical about the quality and accuracy took it to my old work out at the Nat'l Guard base and checked it for calibration on our special testers. It performed better than anything else in the competition including craftsman and Snap on. I see what you are saying about the gear oil, but having personally used it I think that Wiki is full of crap. Anyone who has handled gear oil and motor oil can tell you right off that gear oil is heavier, almost the consistency of fresh honey. Also, the operating parameters are different by far if you read the rest of the article. What bolt are you referring to when you say that you cant get it off? Often times a length of pipe over the end of your socket wrench is you friend to loosen things. Another almost essential item is a pair of duckbill pliers for all the cotter pins you'll be dealing with. They make the job so much easier IMHO. You don't need an air compressor for anything on here as I mentioned before. Just make sure the torque wrench you get ahold of has a fairly broad range of settings. Go through the reassembly procedures you will be performing in the manual and see what torques you will be dealing with to get a better idea. DO NOT CONFUSE inch pounds and foot pounds. You can seriously damage things if you do. I think there are very few inch pound torques on the VX anyways. On the nuts you will be taking on and off it is usually the preferred method to start at the lowest torque setting(if there is a torque range) to try and line up the cotter pin hole. If it isn't lining up within the range you either need to add a thin washer to help align it, or feel ballsy enough to just crank down till it lines up. Use new cotter pins, they are cheap.

[Ldub]

I think the confusion regarding torque/impact wrenches is stemming from the mention in the past of an impact wrench being a handy tool to have when removing the little phillips head screws that hold the bearing tensioning collar in place...they are fairly soft & the heads are easily stripped. (rounded)

It was a HAND impact wrench that was recommended (also harbor freight), which can be used with a phillips bit & struck with a hammer.

[Ascinder]

If all fails I will buy just a torque wrench and use some pb blaster. I think the Harbor freight in my neck of the woods just opened. Are they normally cheaper than HD or Lowes, Sears?

Harbor Freight is known for having pretty much the cheapest tools around. Some people curse their name, others praise them for offering reasonable prices. Personally I have used them for years and have yet to have had any problems. In fact, many of the hand tools in the Snap On catalog are identical(yes in quality too). They are willing to replace any broken hand tool for free forever just like sears, but for substantially less up front. To me, unless you are going to use these tools absolutely every day like a professional mechanic or a contractor, then they are a good blend of cost vs. effectiveness. For the average occasional/infrequent do it yourselfer, they are ideal. I don't know if you know this or not, but you aren't going to be using the torque wrench to take things off with. At least you really shouldn't. They can be damaged and then the settings you dial in won't be in any way precise. If you have wrenches with a box end, and an open end, you can use one and link another through the other end to create a longer lever, or use a large socket wrench and a hollow length of tube around the handle to get the leverage. You should also look up their metric socket sets while you're there. I think if you get the right two, then they should have any and all sockets you will ever use on the VX.

[JHarris1385]

I cant not get the fill plugg off the front diff to even top it off. I have loaded it with PB Blaster and still no luch even with a breaker bar. Any ideas?

[etlsport]

keep tuggin away! mine took forever to get off of there.. i used a 1 foot ratchet + about a 2 foot pipe and even then took all sorts of effort.. just make sure u are turning it to the left

[Ascinder]

Give the plug a couple good hits with a 5 lb. hammer to help jar the threads, then put the breaker bar back on the plug and hit the end of the handle with the same hammer. Sometimes things that are threaded get a little stuck/rusted/gooed into place and just need that tender loving whack to convince them to move again.

[JHarris1385]

Will do tonight. Going to order that seal tonight and tackle this job in the morning.

[JHarris1385]

Upon getting that fill nut off the fluid in both the front and the rear the oil was lightly pouring out (which means full right). So far I put just under 2 quarts in the rear with the LSD additive. The manual says 2.3 quarts but it look less than 2.

I did not get to the front fill up yet by the time I post this but I did take pictures of the current state.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/Picture_0051.jpg


http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/Picture_0042.jpg


http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/Picture_0031.jpg

[Ascinder]

There's pretty much no doubt about it. That is definitely the oil seal. Don't worry at all about only 2 quarts going into the differential. There is probably still a little(like .3 quarts :p ) probably in the bottom. It is almost impossible to get out unless you have a professional suction gun with a very flexible tip.

[JHarris1385]

Anyone have any last minute tips or how to's to throw in here?
I am going to tackle or attempt to tackle this job early tomorrow.

[JHarris1385]

Lets just say this story here as turned into a nightmare....Im going to another shop this morning for them to look at this as well.

The oil leakage just stopped after a while and held off for months and now all of a sudden its on overload.

1 question: the pictured ball bearings/holder - I could not find them for purchase at my auto parts store, so I only purchased the inner bearings thus far to take with me to this new mechanic.

[tom4bren]

John,

I see you're back in this mode again. I just wanted to add my .02 in this thread.

You don't need to tackle the job of repacking your wheel bearings in conjuction with the axle bearings. I'm of the opinion that it's better to do that as a dedicated task at another date.

Follow the instructions for installing CV boots to the point where you pull the brake assembly out to disengage the CVs from the outer race (green cup). Then follow the instructions from starchild (Isuzu forum) to drop the axle & remove the axle seals & bearings.

I highly recommend that you get a Pitman arm puller to use when taking apart ball joints rather than a ball joint fork (likely to tear the boot using it). It's readily available at any parts store for about $20.

I am far from being a mechanic & I got'r done. You can do this. I'll warn you though, my diff drop took me about 20 hrs.

I'll PM you my cell number in case you need any advice while wrenching (or before).

Tom

[nfpgasmask]

The whole problem for me is the time. I would be willing to do this job if I had a 2nd vehicle that I could depend on. This is the kind of detailed fix I would like to have as much time as necissary to leave my VX in the garage and work on.

Otherwise, I would rather just have a pro shop do it. But then I assume we are talking bux.

So, with this leak, is it "safe" to just keep periodically checking my front diff fluid level to make sure there is enough juice in there? At least until I have the resources to get this leak fixed? I hate leaking fluid all over the world more than you could imagine, but...

Bart

[tom4bren]

Bart,

Absolutely. The oil leak can wait as long as you keep it topped off.

The only problem is that you will get absolutely no warning that your CV boot is about to tear. Once your boot tears, further driving is not recommended. The boot is just a rubber cup to keep the grease in & the dirt out. If you keep driving tho, you can trash a CV rather quickly (depending on the environment you're in).

If you have confidence in your boots, wait till you're ready.

Tom

[nfpgasmask]

Yeah, I check my boots regularly for any signs of tearing or cracking. I think I have been lucky thus far. I probably should order a set of boots and keep them on hand so when mine do eventually go, I have all the needed stuff to get this repair done quickly.

Bart

[tom4bren]

Sounds like a plan.

[tom4bren]

I'm a tad confused. Since the Proton was lifted by PO, I have no basis for determining stock from OEM. I'm starting to think that my crossmember is aftermarket (Calmini). Does anyone have a pic of a stock crossmember that I can use for comparison. Or can someone look at the crossmember pix in my gallery & tell me if it's aftermarket?

[JoFotoz]

Hi Tom

Doesnt look like a Calmini Crossmember...at least not like mine!

I have one fitted ,and its a one piece fabrication with no welded ends.




I'm a tad confused. Since the Proton was lifted by PO, I have no basis for determining stock from OEM. I'm starting to think that my crossmember is aftermarket (Calmini). Does anyone have a pic of a stock crossmember that I can use for comparison. Or can someone look at the crossmember pix in my gallery & tell me if it's aftermarket?


BTW...while checking my Crossmember...I discovered a newly torn CV boot...:eek:

I'm glad you asked the question!!!


jo

[tom4bren]

Joe,

Thanks for checking. LittleBeast indicated that mine is definitely not OEM. The crossmember has 1 1/2" drop brackets installed in those pix so those weld lines are not part of the aftermarket crossmember. Wish I'd taken some pix before install. I should find out this week if the drop brackets will work with the OEM crossmember.

Bummer about the CV boot. Are you next on the diff drop list?

Tom

[JoFotoz]

I didnt know there was a list...




Bummer about the CV boot. Are you next on the diff drop list?

Tom

BUT...YES!!...I'll get on it.:p

Its my second CV boot...so I gotta do it!

jo

[tom4bren]

"I didnt know there was a list..."

Only in my mind ... GEEZ I gotta getta life.