Someone help me understand....

[nfpgasmask]

OK, aside from the VX, one of my all time favorite off-road vehicles has always been the Land Rover Defender. I would LOVE to have one someday, one just like this (except not yellow):

ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DEFENDER-90-SOFT-TOP_W0QQitemZ250155110421QQihZ015QQcategoryZ31849Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

But, for the life of me, I don't understand why these trucks are so damn expensive??? I mean, I am seeing Defenders with 125,000 miles on them listed for $25,000-$30,000???? I mean, I know they are somewhat rare, but no more rare than a VX. So what is the deal really? Are they just made like tanks and never break down?

I don't know much about Land Rovers and their history, so I figured I would ask and see if anyone can shed some light on this truck and why the heck it value remains so high?

Bart

[Ldub]

Demand higher than supply = worth more.

Supply higher than demand = worth less.

This has been your "Uncle Dub" condensed course in economics. ;)

The End.

Oh, almost forgot...

Other factors that can have an effect on the value of material goods...

What the people with the money are willing to pay.

The opinion of people who are friends of said people with money.

The perception that something is worth more because it is:

A. Imported

B. Several of said friends already own one.

C. If it has real wood trim on the dash or steering wheel. :rolleyes:

D. All of the above & a bunch of stuff I haven't thought of yet...

[ZEUS]

I like the D90 as well, but I also like the old FJ-40's - they can fetch a hefty penny too... like this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Land-Cruiser-FJ-40-Rock-Crawler-L-K-MAKE-OFFER_W0QQitemZ290150073637QQihZ019QQcategoryZ6443 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I don't understand it myself. But I know I have spent quite a bit of money on my own Jeeps in building them!

[Joe_Black]

LR refused to make them US DOT compliant with airbags and such or meet more stringent emissions requirements, so there were only a few years you could get them and at that in limited numbers. The bodies are aluminum which makes for another premium, but mostly it's the scarcity+popularity=exclusivity equation. I came very close to purchasing one (much against my "no British cars" rule) from Reeve's LR in Tampa back in '95, then they were gone in '96 and back for just '97 and that was the end of that. From there they've not moved very much from the original sticker of just over $30K.

Now there are alternatives however, as you can sometimes find "imported" both the Defender 90 and the 5-door Defender 110. These are the military versions of course, but that gets you a diesel option as well. Getting them in is the tricky part as you can currently only import a vehicle over 25 years old to avoid meeting DOT and EPA requirements, but there are exceptions and grey areas if you've got the patience and $$$. Here's one exporter specializing in LR and they've got some basic info on what and why you can't bring in: http://www.landrovercentre.com/usa/which.htm

[Joe Isuzu]

I've wondered that myself as typically LR's depreciate like a rock. My opinion is pretty much the same as the others have already said; these vehicles are simply very scarce in the states and I believe they've gotten a well-earned rep for truly go-anywhere-in-the-world stamina
Make sure you're happy with your mechanic though, I've loved the looks of LR's for a while, but their reliability and build quality has never been a strong point, especially for the price you pay

[circmand]

Buy an old Ford Bronco convertible and add the same options and save tens of thousands of dollars.

[ZEUS]

Here is an affordable one for you: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Land-Rover-SWB-88-Stationwagon-Safari-top-OD-runs-GREAT-spares_W0QQitemZ270155973424QQihZ017QQcategoryZ629 6QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Zorak]

Here is an affordable one for you: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Land-Rover-SWB-88-Stationwagon-Safari-top-OD-runs-GREAT-spares_W0QQitemZ270155973424QQihZ017QQcategoryZ629 6QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Hmm, 1600 views and no bids...ending in two hours, might be able to get it for opening bid price...and you could also use it on a mail/newspaper route! :)

[VehiGAZ]

No rust? I can tell that's a lie from the other side of the country.

[nfpgasmask]

OK, thanks guys. I guess it is truly a phenomenon.

The good news is, by that same rational, our VXes should be worth tons of money soon too! ;)

Bart

[Zorak]

No rust? I can tell that's a lie from the other side of the country.

Actually, (as Joe has already pointed out) those old LR's had an aluminum body, so there would not be any rust... on the body panels, anyway.

[circmand]

Hey it came with a wench so that might be a good deal if she were pretty and did not have british teeth

[JHarris1385]

I like the D90 as well, but I also like the old FJ-40's - they can fetch a hefty penny too... like this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Land-Cruiser-FJ-40-Rock-Crawler-L-K-MAKE-OFFER_W0QQitemZ290150073637QQihZ019QQcategoryZ6443 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I don't understand it myself. But I know I have spent quite a bit of money on my own Jeeps in building them!



Here is an FJ for you.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Toyota-Land-Cruiser-FJ40-1980-ALL-ORIGINAL-No-Reserve_W0QQitemZ150153101304QQihZ005QQcategoryZ64 43QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Just right down the road from me too.

[Trudy Carp]

My sister bought a brand new one in 98. Yep, lots of money. Before it was a year old, it was in the shop 6 times for various leaks, breakdowns, etc. Everytime we did any water crossings, her front lamps filled with water and eventually shorted the lamp electrical system. It was an awesome vehicle with a good warranty and a lot of fun, but it was in the shop WAY TO MUCH. Talk to a current long time owner before you make the leap. Maybe the newer ones are better.

[ZEUS]

I came very close to purchasing one (much against my "no British cars" rule) from Reeve's LR in Tampa back in '95, then they were gone in '96 and back for just '97 and that was the end of that.


My sister bought a brand new one in 98. Yep, lots of money... Maybe the newer ones are better.
Guess not, since that WAS a new one!

[Joe_Black]

Here's the Edmunds review of the Defender 90 with some good info:

Land Rover Defender Review

When you think of Queen Elizabeth's wheels, you probably think of some stately Rolls-Royce or her armored modified Bentley. But in the film The Queen, the vehicle old Liz actually drives herself is a Land Rover Defender when on her family's Balmoral estate. Despite Charles' suggestion to get something newer, the Queen is rather insistent about driving her trusty green Defender 110 about -- she even diagnoses the damage caused to its undercarriage when she goes too quickly through a stream. "I was a mechanic during the war," she says. Sure this was all in a movie, but if something's good enough for the Queen, the Defender should be good enough for off-road enthusiast Yanks searching for a rough-and-tumble SUV with decades of Land Rover pedigree.

That pedigree dates back to the original Land Rover Series 1, which was created in 1948 to serve the same general purpose as the U.S. Army's Jeep. The later "Station Wagon" body style -- typically with the spare tire mounted on the hood -- is the one closely associated with any movie featuring an African safari. This body style in two- and four-door form carried on into the 1980s as Series II and Series III. These Land Rovers were the go-to vehicle for folks hunting water buffalo in Botswana or herding sheep in Berwick-upon-Tweed.

Land Rover's utilitarian off-road SUV became known as the Defender Ninety and Defender One Ten in 1985, with the numbers respectively representing the two- and four-door models' wheelbases (rounded to the nearest 10). These models were changed to the numerical 90 and 110 from 1991 on and continue to be sold in Great Britain today. (They are also the British Army's primary troop vehicles, much like the American Humvee.)

Of course, this is the history of the Land Rover Defender in the United Kingdom and elsewhere in the world. Here in the United States, the Defender is a rare beast, having been sold in low numbers for only four years. Airbag requirements ultimately doomed Land Rover's ability to import the Defender (it didn't have them), and with so few sold, finding one should take considerable time and effort. But for those looking for a dedicated off-road SUV fit for a queen, the Defender is certainly worth the effort.

Most Recent Land Rover Defender

The two-door Land Rover Defender 90 was sold for 1994, 1995 and 1997. (Emissions requirements and low sales resulted in no 1996 model.) There were two body styles available. The convertible came with a standard second-row bench seat and a choice of a full soft top (with roll-up side windows), fastback soft top, "Bikini" half top or no top at all. The hardtop body style debuted in 1995 featuring an aluminum roof with pop-up sunroof, an internal/external "safari cage" and four center-facing rear seats. The latter allowed this relatively small vehicle to seat up to six people.

For 1994 and '95, the Defender 90 was powered by a 3.9-liter V8 that made 182 horsepower and 232 pound-feet of torque. This engine drove a full-time four-wheel-drive system and was connected only to a five-speed manual transmission. For 1997, Land Rover fitted the Discovery's 4.0-liter aluminum V8 that yielded 182 hp and 233 lb-ft of torque into the Defender. Mated only to a four-speed automatic, this engine wasn't any more powerful than its predecessor, but it had lower emissions, which granted the Defender a brief re-entry into the United States.

Those expecting to find an interior similar to those found in Land Rover's other products will be greatly disappointed. The Defender represents the definition of bare-bones, with a simplistic dashboard designed in the mid-1980s and a utilitarian cabin fashioned to be more easily vacuumed out after a Serengeti trek. There were also no airbags. (Even to this day, the thoroughly updated Defender sold elsewhere doesn't have them.) This lack of creature comforts and safety features doesn't even take into consideration the profuse amount of noise emanating from the road, wind and engine.

The Land Rover Defender 90 does the job it was intended to do well. But beyond tackling off-road trails, however, it is ill-suited for any significant journey involving pavement. Other off-road specialists like the Jeep Wrangler will probably suit your trail needs just as well as the Defender at a lower price, although none boast the Land Rover's British pedigree.

Past Land Rover Defender Models

In 1993, Land Rover sold 500 units of the four-door Defender 110 in the United States. Featuring a stretched version of the later two-door model's frame, it featured a wheelbase that surpassed that time's Range Rover. The 110 came only in a fixed hardtop body style with center-facing rear seats that allowed nine people to sit in all the comfort of a troop transporter. Power came from the 3.9-liter V8 that made 180 hp and 227 lb-ft of torque. The same praise and criticism levied at the Defender 90 can be directed at the 110 as well, but its extreme rarity should at least make it more of a collector's item some day.

They are very capable vehicles and not at all luxurious. Several local offroaders have them and have high-praise for regular adventures to Uwharrie, Tellico and other SE ORV meccas. Personally I'd rather have an early 80's diesel Gelandewagen, or better yet a 4JG2 powered '89 Trooper RS! :)

[nfpgasmask]

Interesting info. But trust me, I won't be trading my VX in for one of these...

It was just that I have always liked the way they look, and the other day I was bored and looking at them on eBaymotors, and it boggled my mind at how a vehicle with well over 100k miles could still be selling for $20k+....

I still think they look b@d@ss....

:) Bart

[Joe_Black]

Yeah, they are pretty nifty and I really enjoyed driving one. At the dealership I went to for the test drives they had the big LR "obstacle course" which has all sorts of simulated situations to show off the rigs capabilities. Mostly I found it very utilitarian but comfortable for someone my size. I especially liked the rear troop seating, which some of the earlier Gelandewagens have as well. But yes, they are just way too spendy.