How come Republicans hide being gay?

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

I always trip on how the most anti-gay marriage republican leaders are actually homos.
This Senator Craig from Idaho trying to get busy in a bathroom stall is just the tip of the iceberg.
Before that was congressman Mark Foley, who was sending sexy text messages to teenage male pages over the internet, not only gay but kinda dumb too.
Before that was Rev. Ted Haggard, leader of The National Association of Evangelicals, a right wing collection of conservative Bush supporting Jesus freaks.He was "outed" by a gay male prostitute who had a 3 year affair of gay sex and crank use.
Foley, Haggard and Craig are only the most famous. There's Florida Rep. Bob Allen, also caught lurking for sex in a public bathroom, Corporal Matt Sanchez, gay porn star and -- for a shining moment -- Fox News channel's right wing Marine of the moment. And who can forget Jeff Gannon, the right-wing faux journalist with a secret life as a gay escort favored with a White House press pass by the Bush administration communications department.He was hired to throw softball questions that favored president Bush.
My point, be who you are! If your gay and republican, than stand up and be counted. Don't play up family values issues and anti gay issues one minute and be smoking the sausage in an airport bathroom the next. I think if your gay, thats great, but don't become a republican and spout conservative rhetoric, because your really just a hypocrite.It's like an African American wanting to become a clan member.
I know this is gonna rub some people the wrong way,but it's the truth.

[Dino]

It trips me out that people get tripped out about gays, but never about all the weird crap that heteros do!! :confused: :rolleyes:

[Chopper]

If you found out, what was goin' on in some of your neighbors homes...you'd pass out. Chicken suits and dildo hats...40 year olds in rubber diapers. Everyone's got a little freak-freak in 'em. Most don't tap dance in public restroom stalls, then go to work and wave a big christian banner...If it's true that the ones most troubled by a particular form of human activity, are in fact, troubled because they recognize its presence in themselves....it would explain why so many christian religious leaders, and big time family values types, turn out to be precisely the thing they fight so hard against. Most well adjusted people, simply don't care where you put that thing. (as long as everyone agrees, no one gets hurt, and you stay the hell away from kids and my dogs) :p Wayne

[Scott Harness]

well said Chopper!

[Chopper]

When leaving the Orlando Cirque de Soleil, I distinctly remember thinking aloud..."You gotta thank the Gods for gay males" :laughp:

[IndianaVX]

well, i gotta defend the elephant..............lol
first off, James McGreevey is a gay democrat, so now are all dems gay?? i dont like any of this mess either, but i still stand as a republican, i am a Christian,and i am NOT gay.
but its a shame how the drive by media glorifies mcGreevey, darn near made him a hero, and will try to destroy craig. we will see if Craig writes a book about all of his toilet affairs, see if Oprah will invite craig to her show.
im not the least bit interested in looking up the names, but there are pleanty of gay leaders on the dem's side too.
Gay politions have, and cause their own problems, just like everybody else.
in my opinion, talkin party tolerances, the dems tolerate homos, murderers, and theives more than the republican party. which is why its such a big story when one falls, such as craig. teddy k runs off a bridge and kills a young woman, uh, how much time was served in jail compaired to how much time was served in office now?? but i dont think all dems are murderers. Unless we cut and run now,.....or sandy burgular stealing from the national archives, not all dems are thieves.
dem, repub. gay, or not, i wish they would just take care of the things that need to be taken care of, and quite going on witch hunts, and spending OUR money.
ill quit, sorry to get off topic a bit, but it all goes together..

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

I think the difference between the gay republican's and the gay democrats are the gay democrats don't tend to hide it so much(i.e Barney Frank). I have more respect for a politician who says" I am gay, deal with it" than for a politician who gets married to a woman, has kids, just to look straight, when he is really lusting after some teenage boy's ***. I guess my bias is showing through, I think the Republican party and christians have sunk this country to a new low.Let us not forget that during the whole Monica Lewinski thing,Senator Craig was one of the politicians who wanted Clinton's head on a stick for his affair. Not to mention, Newt Gingrich,who was having an affair as he was impeaching Clinton for damn near the same thing.

[geshaw30]

So what is the best time to change the timing belt on a VX and what do you use on your cladding??

(Just checkin to make sure I'm at the right place)

:thumbdn:

[WyrreJ]

How many of you have jobs where you occasionally just have to suck it up and do something you dislike? I think all the closet gays in the republican party are doing the same thing. Being gay doesn't define your entire life nor do gay-issues define a politician's entire job.

When we are stuck with a two party system, unless you are a brainwashed "my party, right or wrong" type, nobody will be in complete agreement with either party platform. So these guys end up having to toe the party line on all the gay politics but probably actually believe in a lot of the rest of the party platform.

Unlike most of our jobs, a politician's job is 24x7. So they can either stay in the closet and keep their job, or come out and lose it and lose the chance they have to make a difference with respect to all of the other issues that they do believe in.

[Triathlete]

Polititians lie...cut and dry! Oh my!
Get on with your life!

[Chopper]

Polititians lie...cut and dry! Oh my!
Get on with your life!
everyone lies...some where,some way, some how,some time,for some reason

[Triathlete]

I never lie! :angel: :rolly: :bwgy:

[Chopper]

you just did

[Triathlete]

;Dy; ;Dy; ;Dy;

[IndianaVX]

if you havent replaced it yet, then you should, and i only use meguires on the cladding

[WILLY]

Yup it works well on the cladding as i discovered this last week ,i was using meguires spray wax on the painted parts and decided to try it on the cladding and buffed it after and it turned out great and the rain dont effect it either but i am still going to paint it.

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

Would I be right in assuming that a few right wingers are trying to change the subject to cladding polish because it is kinda hard to put a positive spin on the GOP seeping quickly down the sewer. If I was a republican, I'd do the same thing.....

[tysamigo]

I think the difference between the gay republican's and the gay democrats are the gay democrats don't tend to hide it so much(i.e Barney Frank). I have more respect for a politician who says" I am gay, deal with it" than for a politician who gets married to a woman, has kids, just to look straight, when he is really lusting after some teenage boy's ***. I guess my bias is showing through, I think the Republican party and christians have sunk this country to a new low.Let us not forget that during the whole Monica Lewinski thing,Senator Craig was one of the politicians who wanted Clinton's head on a stick for his affair. Not to mention, Newt Gingrich,who was having an affair as he was impeaching Clinton for damn near the same thing.


Yup...


Gays (and all other living human beings) should have had equal rights by now. We should be past all of the discriminitory BS since the civil rights movement (if not before that). Although I don't fall under the 2 party system, I do hope that we end up with a Democratic president this next time around (or a more liberal/scientific party) and hope that we get our @$$ out of other people's business. This religious and "thirsty for oil" war has got to end....instead of making friends in the world it seems as if we are straggling to make a few "allies" instead...

PS
I LOVE MY LIBERAL VX (you should see the car magnets on it. they are extremely controversial) :)

[LittleBeast]

Would I be right in assuming that a few right wingers are trying to change the subject to cladding polish because it is kinda hard to put a positive spin on the GOP seeping quickly down the sewer. If I was a republican, I'd do the same thing.....

No I am pretty sure that to everyone else in the group that is not trying to point out others wrongs and solve all the problems in the government on a car forum that there are a few people that would rather talk about the similarities we have as a group and help people out instead of point fingers at the "few right wingers". I thought you would try to be a little more tolerant of other peoples views instead of "assuming" whatever you want about good people on this forum to make a statement that is completely accusatory and uncalled for especially since I am assuming not too many people are too concerned with talking about such things here. Feel free to talk all you want it is your choice, but in my opinion this conversation and your uncalled for false "assumtions" about people and intolerence for others views than your own (republicans and Christians evidently) are better taken somewhere else, and could really be stated better (less harsh) as I think you would agree. Not trying to make a big deal out of this I respect your views and I know exactly where you are coming from, but it just seems like you have a little pride thinking you are better or at least are smarter than "Christian Republicans". When in all honesty I think this whole debate proves the point that no one is perfect, we all have things we would not want the world to know for various reasons, and none of us has it all figured out, my self certainly included. We are all searching for something and trying to fill a void in us, to answer the question as old as time, why are we here? If you answer that question by saying that you are here to bash others that are so obviously below you in intellect, do your thing, but why do it on a car forum? Oh and I use Mothers Back to Black on my cladding, it is by far the best I have experienced.

[Chopper]

I always assumed this to be a free and open forum, based loosely around the fact we all own the same car. Some have been here six or seven years, and frankly we've said about all there is to say about cladding slicker. i've learned much more about my fellow VXers through topics like this, than all the "clean my stupid EGR" posts combined. They're a pretty easy goung bunch, and I've become quite fond of some of the members of my electronic family. There's plenty of room here for any discussion...no censorship...keep it open. Wayne

[tomdietrying]

Chopper,
I happen to agree with you.

What wrong with the truth. We are in a bad situation right now ...aka Iraq because we were not told the truth. We got there because of misinformation, poor judgement, and poor leadership.
Remember Iraq and Afganistan are not the same thing. We were told they are, but the truth is they are not. 911 got us in Afganistan....Money and Greed got us in Iraq.

Don't be afraid to speak the truth, and hold people accountable for their actions whether they are a Republican or a Democrat. Our country deserves that.

Peace.
Tom

[IndianaVX]

hard to put a positive spin on the GOP????
which party is wanting to open our borders to illegal immigrants ? who is wanting to destroy our healthcare system? who is shooting down EVERY effort to explore for our own oil on U.S. soil? whose party took millions and millions to build leveys in New orleans, but never did it, and puts ALL Americans in a position to pay for re building the "chocolate city"? which party is pandering to the gay, lesbian, transexuals just for votes?? which party is wanting to rid us of the tax cuts, which have given us a STRONG economy? what party is trying to KILL the patiriot act? do you know??? it isnt the GOP, ill tell you that.
if a polotician is gay, (although i dont agree with it) if that same polotician is voting to keep America safe, voting to lessen our dependence on forigen oil while we explore alternatives, vote for securing our borders, vote for NOT giving a free pass to citizenship to illegals when there have been immigrants waiting years to become citizens LEGALLY, then FLAME ON YOU GAY POLOTICIAN.

POSITIVE SPIN....OK, a storng economy, the strongest in years and years, the dow is on track to break 15000 within a year. unemployment is low, our military is strong, stronger than when clinton was cutting funding for the military. and yes, there are positives in the war that we are winning. i can go on but i have things to do today on my day off

your attack on us that were LIGHTHEARTDLY talking about cladding, and timming belts was uncalled for.
so its only fair, enlighten us with your POSITIVE SPIN ON THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, here is your chance to convert us gay, hipocritical, Christian republicans.
im not mad at you wasabi, but your lashing out, without anything backing it is typical democratic bs. that last post of yours was like a drive by shooting, not concerned who the bullit hits, just that you were able to make a weak point.

[Chopper]

Just wait'll you all get to heaven, and find out....God is really a giant Beetle. P.S. keep the secret...tell no one.

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

hard to put a positive spin on the GOP????
which party is wanting to open our borders to illegal immigrants ? who is wanting to destroy our healthcare system? who is shooting down EVERY effort to explore for our own oil on U.S. soil? whose party took millions and millions to build leveys in New orleans, but never did it, and puts ALL Americans in a position to pay for re building the "chocolate city"? which party is pandering to the gay, lesbian, transexuals just for votes?? which party is wanting to rid us of the tax cuts, which have given us a STRONG economy? what party is trying to KILL the patiriot act? do you know??? it isnt the GOP, ill tell you that.
if a polotician is gay, (although i dont agree with it) if that same polotician is voting to keep America safe, voting to lessen our dependence on forigen oil while we explore alternatives, vote for securing our borders, vote for NOT giving a free pass to citizenship to illegals when there have been immigrants waiting years to become citizens LEGALLY, then FLAME ON YOU GAY POLOTICIAN.

POSITIVE SPIN....OK, a storng economy, the strongest in years and years, the dow is on track to break 15000 within a year. unemployment is low, our military is strong, stronger than when clinton was cutting funding for the military. and yes, there are positives in the war that we are winning. i can go on but i have things to do today on my day off

your attack on us that were LIGHTHEARTDLY talking about cladding, and timming belts was uncalled for.
so its only fair, enlighten us with your POSITIVE SPIN ON THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, here is your chance to convert us gay, hipocritical, Christian republicans.
im not mad at you wasabi, but your lashing out, without anything backing it is typical democratic bs. that last post of yours was like a drive by shooting, not concerned who the bullit hits, just that you were able to make a weak point.

Wow, Where do I start?...First of all, I am sorry about pointing my AK out my VX and spraying the G.O.P. (lol)
I have graced this earth for 40 years, and in those years I have never seen anything like what has transpired in the last seven. Electing a man who is not mentally qualified to be the assistant manager of a Pizza Hut as leader of this country, and the free world.
I could try list GWB's major fock-ups in here, but I hear the server is running out of space and it would probably fill it's few remaining gigabites.
But I will say this.
I don't think Jesus would sit down to eat at a table full of food (America)
and turn people away because they are mexican, or because they were poor and could not afford a doctor,or because they were gay.As a matter of fact, I would like to think that Jesus would have enough love in his heart to want everyone at his table, and not just people with American flag lapel pins and gold watches.
As far as the war goes,nobody, even Jesus, thinks killing innocent people to get our hands on the tap of the worlds largest oil reserve was a wise or moral move.We have killed more Iraqi citizens then Saddam ever did, and this "were fighting them over there, so we don't have to fight them here" is just another crock of **** that this has administration has used to control us, by using fear as a weapon against it's own citizens.
Our respect around the world has decreased exponentially since GWB. I thought we were supposed to be the good guys? Even Jesus does not like us as much. How many people do we have to kill before we become the bad guys? Our boys are dying in vain over there, while buffoons in three piece suits drag their heels just long enough to blame the outcome on the democrats. I can hear it now,"If we just stayed the course a little longer in Iraq ,we could have had Disneyland over there, But no, You cut and run Democrats ruined everything!"
The same was said about another little war, remember Viet Nam anyone?
We probably should have stay a little longer there too, huh?
I better stop,because some in here think of my words as bullets,but they are just words.

"Words will always retain their power. Words are the means to meaning, and for those who listen, the enunciation of truth, and the truth is there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there?"

Quote from my favorite movie.........

[biju]

Electing a man who is not mentally qualified to be the assistant manager of a Pizza Hut as leader of this country, and the free world.
....i simply could not have said it any better. a good larf to start this labor day, indeed. thanks!

-biju.

p.s. - nothing beats Stoner's "Trim Shine" or Zaino Brother's tire gloss for our cladding.

...and........ I'm out.

[tomdietrying]

Here's the bottom line on our economy.......we HAD a balanced budget.....we spent a lot of money.........Now we have the largest deficet in history. This has happened in the past 6 years. Yeah, you can say our economy is great if you take out the fact that we have the largest deficet IN OUR HISTORY. We are spending more than we take in.

That is like saying you make 50 k a year, have a wife and kids, have a house, and two cars, but you own American Express50k in credit cards. Someone has pay for those poor decisions.

Yes, someone will have to be the adult and say enough with the spending. We need to save money, and we HAVE to raise taxes to pay off our bills.

Peace.
Tom

[tomdietrying]

We are getting way too serious....this will make you smile.

Here is a glimpse of how two people think. Two men were asked how they thought history would see them.


Respondent #1 – “Fellow citizen, we cannot escape history, we of this Congress and Administration will be remembered in spite of ourselves. No personal significance, or insignificance, can spare one or another of us. The fiery trail though which we pass, will light us down, in honor or dishonor, to the latest generation.”



Respondent #2 – “History. We won’t know. We’ll all be dead.”







The two respondents are George W. Bush and Abraham Lincoln. Here’s my question to you. Which man said which statement?



I’ll bet you a million dollars you got it right.



Send this to your friends and win a million dollars too!

Peace.
Tom

[WILLY]

Would I be right in assuming that a few right wingers are trying to change the subject to cladding polish because it is kinda hard to put a positive spin on the GOP seeping quickly down the sewer. If I was a republican, I'd do the same thing.....
I just dont give 2 turds about any of that crap cause its all about a pansy @$$ power trip anyway and its amazing how the most inteligent species on the planet is the most ignorant.And homosexuality is just natures way of population control cause most homo's dont reproduce and we homo's have as much choice in choosing our orientation as we do in choosing our sex,haircolor or skincolor and i dont know how i got here and niether does anyone else but i do know the planet was doomed the day the human species set foot on it.My 2 cents :thumbdn: :luck:

[Chopper]

I love George Bush...whatta dope. I'm gonna miss him. Straight men like him, don't come along every day. A comics dream. Friggin clown...set the world on fire. Yeah...we'll remember him alright. I think "our little "Dolphie" was the last human to carry so many names on his forehead, in his trip to eternity. He will not be judged kindly, by the ages.

[Chopper]

Come screamin' outta the closet! We love ya' man... relax a bit.

[ZEUS]

Politicians suck one way or another... or they have someone suck them, or both. :_confused The Republicans seem to be hiding they are gay because they have been forced to wear their seat belts for too long! Break the ties that bind, break through the closet, BREAK THROUGH YOUR RESTRICTIVE SEAT BELTS!!!!!!! WOOT WOOOOT! :wave: :clap:
I can't wait until Hillary gets busted in a gang bang with Bill behind the video camera!

[Chopper]

The planet will never be "doomed" by the likes of us. It'll take more than a clever, hairless, ape, to do 'er in. When the weight gets too heavy, things will shift, and the biosphere will regain equilibrium. Maybe it is the time of the insect, comming up. Sentient cockroaches. Asteroids and ice couldn't do it, and neither can you. You give yourself too much credit, you clever monkey....

[Scott Harness]

I do hope Mother Nature takes care of business. :thanx:

[JHarris1385]

This blog was a stupid idea. It was obviously only going to cause bikering with no final solution. People who write on here will not have their opinions changed just becuase of someone elses words. I have one piece of advice to all. Take a current ecomonics course and or political science course at college level and 90% of you would change your opinions. Opinions it is becuase I have yet to see any wasabi facts on here.

[IndianaVX]

[QUOTE=HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]Wow, Where do I start?...


im still waiting for you to...............lol wide open opportunity to say sometihing positive about what the democratic party has done.....take your pick, last 6 months, last 6 years, anytime.....and you come back with bash bush bash bush, and WWJD, (what would Jesus do?)

You got something right, Jesus DOES make himself available to anyone who would choose to call him friend. whether they are mexican, chineese, american, black white. in the bible there are pleanty of times Jesus is sittng with tax collectors, prostitutes, making his point that all are welcome, and to come follow him.
BUT compairing Jesus to America??? come on now....be real. I in no way insinuated that we should stop iIMMIGRATION. if someone wants to come here LEGALY, by following the rules, doing the paperwork, and follow the course of BECOMING an American citizen, go for it. but this constant flood of illegals, some even being terrorest, or wanting to hurt the USA, (well even the illegals are hurting the USA), but anyway, thats gotta stop, or be gotten under control.
there are two hospitals here locally that are about to close the emergency room doors because of all the illegals that are in there, its become a "free" clinic. so i suppose you think that its alright that people who have lived here for years and years now are suddenly 30 to 50 miles from the nearst emergency room, or that ambulances have two less emergency rooms to handle some tradgedy, all because a flood of people think they can come here breaking our laws, and say they have the "right" to treatment that you and i have been paying for?

To answer your question "I thought we were supposed to be the good guys? Even Jesus does not like us as much. How many people do we have to kill before we become the bad guys?"
i would say that when we start raising our children to become human mobile bombs, when we teach our children to kill at ages of 5 and 6 yrs old. when whe start cutting faces off with piano wire, or beheading prisoners. when we start running trucks full of explosives into crowded malls, and large groups of people.......i think you could call us bad guys then.
i dont like war, but am i glad we fought the germans?? we lost our soldiers in matters of days, that compair to 4 years to reach same number. all of them im sorry we lost, but thank GOD for every one of them.
same here. could things be better, yes, they could. do i wish there could be war without lives being lost? well, it wouldnt be war then. when you say our soldiers are dying in vain, "" Our boys are dying in vain over there, while buffoons in three piece suits drag their heels just long enough to blame the outcome on the democrats."" did our soldiers die in vain in germany, or france, or veitnam all die in vain also? i dont think so.

the president had been asking for funding for troops, and there were so many missed opportunitys, and all the dems did on the funding bills was load them down with subsidies (sp?) for the shrimp industry, or the peanut growers, we are talking BILLIONS. all bush was trying to do is get the soldiers funding for what they needed, and he has had to veto it, and try again, over and over, and in the meantime, our soldiers are wounded, or killed.

"remember vietnam?" remember the killing fields???
yeah, your words are just words, sticks and stones and all.....dont worry about me.lol

but ill throw the gauntlet down AGAIN, just to be fair with another opportunity, and ask for something positive that the democratic party has done for americans intrest in the last, hmmmm 6-8 yrs. or if its easier on you, if your vote is going to be for hillary, or obamma, give me a reason (other than "shes a woman" , or, "hes a afroamerican") they deserve your vote, or again, something positve they have done. (oh, bombing pakastan, our ALLY, isnt positive)

im about bored with this thread, so think hard...........;)

and most importantly, you are all my friends, and i apologize for any "sore toes":p

so again, meguires, endurance, to be exact, is what i have used on the cladding. and it smells wuuunnderful....... for me back to black, nice color, too sticky for me.:)

[Chopper]

A good mother always takes care of her children. This blog was a great idea.

[Chopper]

Got my Blue turban on, my finger is on the button......and it is twitching.

[IndianaVX]

oh, and chopper, i agree. i think its pretty big headed of us to think that we can control something that has rolling right along for "builluns and buillions of years.
mother nature has know what to do with that volcano ash, or co2. shes a good mother

[tomdietrying]

IndianaVX- Did you not read my post?
Peace.
Tom

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

You are right Indiana,
I shouldn't Bush bash, because hey,it's like me tripping an athlete sprinting to win the 50 yard dash at the special olympics. Can't have that.
I should be focusing on the Dems, because they have been in power the last 7 years and have had control of the House and Senate and got us into this mess. Oh wait no, that's not true, they have had only partial control since last election when America handed the GOP their walking papers and voted out every Republican that could be voted out. Wonder why that happened?
Bush has vowed to veto (and has) any legislation that would bring our boys home.That is a fact. He already has.
Comparing the "War on Terrorism" to World War II is an interesting angle though. Even Bush said "this is a new kind of war", problem is, He is fighting it
in an old kind of way. Terrorists can be anywhere, they are not a country. They could be a few guys living in New Jersey. So how does invading Iraq stop those guys from bombing a subway? It doesn't!
Bill Clinton tried to bomb Osama bin laden's camp years before 9-11, And to date he came closer to making Osama Bin Laden a grease spot than Bush has ever dreamed of. Bill Clinton was a Democrat right?
I find it funny that Americans are pretty much all immigrants but some Americans have such disdain for immigrants that don't share the same language or skin color or financial means.It is like the spoiled child on the playground who thinks he owns the slide because he was the first one to touch it. Neener neener!
Don't think my disdain is just aimed at the republicans. I am mad at the Democrats for not calling out the republicans more for running this country so stupidly, without forethought, or any regard for the future of people at home and abroad.
But what makes America great is that we always strike a balance,For every Rush Limbaugh, there is a Bill Mahar, For every George Bush,There is a Hillary Clinton, and for every Indianavx,There is a hot wasabi junkie.
That's what keeps the country from becoming too conservative or too liberal.
A balance is always struck.
Come next November,I think the scales will tip in a better direction..........

[WyrreJ]

Guys, all this talk of cladding treatments is completely off-topic for this thread.
Take it somewhere else please.

[WILLY]

Guys, all this talk of cladding treatments is completely off-topic for this thread.
Take it somewhere else please.
LMFAO :p

[geshaw30]

Geeez...I brought the cladding thing up as a joke. It had nothing to do with my being a "right wing", a "left wing", a "seagull's wing" or any other type of flapping appendage. I simply thought there are other forums that target this kind of conversation. Wasted effort on meager attempt at light hearted humor. Mores the pity that we've decided to walk down this road and throw stones in the process.

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

With over 440 views and 45 responses, it would seem people DO want to talk about this stuff.People who would rather me shut up, and talk about cladding polish are just more comfortable with easy subjects that don't require taking a position, and being willing to stand up for it. Just like I have more respect for a man who is gay, and has no problem telling the world he is gay, I have more respect for a man who says what he thinks, whatever he thinks, and does not give a ƒuçk if he ruffles a few feathers in the process.I am the kind of guy who says whatever I want, to whoever I want, whenever I want.I am also the first person to admit when I am wrong, when and if that ever happens.So if I pissed some people off in the fly-over states.....Sorry.

[Chopper]

Fly-over states? oooooooooo he called you the fly over states. Florida is the wade ashore state. Que habla espanol

[Ldub]

Fly-over states? oooooooooo he called you the fly over states. Florida is the wade ashore state. Que habla espanol

LOL...nice...us plain ol' folks out here in the "Flyover Heartland" are at our happiest as long as most folks would rather fly over than stay. ;)

[Chopper]

unfortunately, poor ol' Fla. is a human magnet. When I got out of the service, in '72, there were almost 7million people here (and we thought it was crowded!) now, we're bumping against 20million. I wish a few would fly over. :(

[IndianaVX]

unfortunately, poor ol' Fla. is a human magnet. When I got out of the service, in '72, there were almost 7million people here (and we thought it was crowded!) now, we're bumping against 20million. I wish a few would fly over. :(

fly over the burmuda triangle????:eek: .....:p

Oh, and thank YOU, chopper, for your service! i didnt know.....i really appreciate it.

[Dino]

I'm sure glad I held back on my server donation... :mad:

[Ldub]

I'm sure glad I held back on my server donation... :mad:

Nice excuse...I suppose someone held a gun to your head, propped your eyelids open with toothpicks & MADE you read this thread. :rolleyes:

(note to self...cut off nose to spite face...that'll teach em'! ) :yesgray: :smilewink

[Dino]

Curiosity. It always amazes me how politics and religion can send people on a rant.

Just thinking about the bandwidth issue is all. You're right, as always Ldub.

I do have a choice.
So long folks. ;)

[WILLY]

O my goodness :_thinking

[nfpgasmask]

It always amazes me what you miss when you are away from the forum for a few days!! LOL.

This is all good stuff. I love a good political/religious conversation. People are much more inclined to let 'er rip on a web forum, so you always get some good, well thought out replies, mixed in with some downright irrational flaming!! And it always points out the differences we all share, on a forum we all joined because of our similarities.

I guess what puzzles me to this day, is that most people fail to realize that 99% of everything man-made is utter bull$h1t. People get opinionated and brainwashed but in the end it all means NOTHING. The fact that people take sides and fight for their "beliefs" is awesome, but what I don't get is why people always get so convinced that THEY are RIGHT and everyone else is WRONG.

NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE knows if there is a god. NO ONE knows why we are here, or what the meaning of life is. NO ONE knows if muslims are right, or jews are right, or if christians are right, or if its OK to be gay, or if eating animals is wrong or if there are aliens in our midst or why the hell some VXes burn oil. NO ONE KNOWS AND NO ONE EVER WILL.

So I say, live in the moment, do your best to cause the least impact on the future of life on earth, and believe in NOW. Realize that all strife, turmoil and destruction on this planet is a result of politics, religion, and money, no matter what side you are on. NO ONE is right. NO ONE is wrong. We are just humans here for a short ride in time. There is no solution, it most certainly isn't money and it most certainly isn't Jesus and I don't even know if science will help. People have been around in one form or another for a long time, and not a thing has changed except for the fact that there are a lot more of us and our heads are bumping into one another's more than ever. Everything is happening EXACTLY the way it is supposed to happen. Nothing can be changed.

:) Bart

[etlsport]

It always amazes me what you miss when you are away from the forum for a few days!! LOL.

This is all good stuff. I love a good political/religious conversation. People are much more inclined to let 'er rip on a web forum, so you always get some good, well thought out replies, mixed in with some downright irrational flaming!! And it always points out the differences we all share, on a forum we all joined because of our similarities.

I guess what puzzles me to this day, is that most people fail to realize that 99% of everything man-made is utter bull$h1t. People get opinionated and brainwashed but in the end it all means NOTHING. The fact that people take sides and fight for their "beliefs" is awesome, but what I don't get is why people always get so convinced that THEY are RIGHT and everyone else is WRONG.

NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE knows if there is a god. NO ONE knows why we are here, or what the meaning of life is. NO ONE knows if muslims are right, or jews are right, or if christians are right, or if its OK to be gay, or if eating animals is wrong or if there are aliens in our midst or why the hell some VXes burn oil. NO ONE KNOWS AND NO ONE EVER WILL.

So I say, live in the moment, do your best to cause the least impact on the future of life on earth, and believe in NOW. Realize that all strife, turmoil and destruction on this planet is a result of politics, religion, and money, no matter what side you are on. NO ONE is right. NO ONE is wrong. We are just humans here for a short ride in time. There is no solution, it most certainly isn't money and it most certainly isn't Jesus and I don't even know if science will help. People have been around in one form or another for a long time, and not a thing has changed except for the fact that there are a lot more of us and our heads are bumping into one another's more than ever. Everything is happening EXACTLY that way it is supposed to happen. Nothing can be changed.

:) Bart


well "spoken"! (i do wish SOMEONE would figure out why my VX burns oil though) for real tho i completely agree with what u said.. cheers to that! :_beer:

[nfpgasmask]

Yeah, the burning oil issue is the question of all questions that needs to be answered!!!

:) :) Bart


well "spoken"! (i do wish SOMEONE would figure out why my VX burns oil though) for real tho i completely agree with what u said.. cheers to that! :_beer:

[nater]

A few things:

-W and Lincoln were (are) both Republicans.

-Living off of credit cards does not mean you are rich. Same applies to macroeconomics. Most of the new wealth in the W economy has not gone to you and me, but to the uber-wealthy.

-Jesus was a liberal. Take a cue from Mr. Rogers (a devout Christian and an ordained Minister): God loves everybody just the way you are, even gay people.

-W does not have your best interest at heart. I make more than 95% of Americans and he isn't looking out for me, either.

-More cocaine does not help a cocaine addict kick the habit. Nor does more oil help us kick the oil habit.

-Thou shalt not kill. Killing a man, even a brown one, is not okay to get his land or his oil. His children will be pissed off about it when they grow up.

-You cannot convince me that W is competent by complaining about the Democratic party. Every time someone complains about W, somebody else goes off on a rant ordering the other person to prove that the Democratic party is wonderful.

Nate

[Chopper]

I was wordering how long it was gonna take, for someone to get their fragile sensibilities injured, and go stomping off, slamming the door behind them. :p I'm with the "Mask", this has been a fun thread. I love it when some one huffs 'n puffs 'n turns all red. My uncle says Buddists are pretty cool...but then, he would play quaits all day, wearing only sandals and the Miller can that was permanently affixed to his left hand.He eventually married a big, fat girl, and had three kids and a train set in his basement :) :) :) :) :) :) love, Wayne

[JHarris1385]

A few things:

-W and Lincoln were (are) both Republicans.

-Living off of credit cards does not mean you are rich. Same applies to macroeconomics. Most of the new wealth in the W economy has not gone to you and me, but to the uber-wealthy.

-Jesus was a liberal. Take a cue from Mr. Rogers (a devout Christian and an ordained Minister): God loves everybody just the way you are, even gay people.

-W does not have your best interest at heart. I make more than 95% of Americans and he isn't looking out for me, either.

-More cocaine does not help a cocaine addict kick the habit. Nor does more oil help us kick the oil habit.

-Thou shalt not kill. Killing a man, even a brown one, is not okay to get his land or his oil. His children will be pissed off about it when they grow up.

-You cannot convince me that W is competent by complaining about the Democratic party. Every time someone complains about W, somebody else goes off on a rant ordering the other person to prove that the Democratic party is wonderful.

Nate



Nate: If you make more than 95% of Americans, then you are in fact in the tax bracket. Trust me. Otherwise dont ramble hypocrisy.

Wasabi crunch some numbers on here for facts.
If you dont have numbers and only have finger pointing and name calling, then I suggest you hit the books.

[Zorak]

This thread should have been started in Chit Chat, not VX Talk. Got nothing to do with the VX! :mad:

[technocoy]

the fact of the matter here is that our government is failing on all sides.. The two party system has failed by inevitably becoming completely polarized and unbending.

There needs to be a good round of ***-kicking and head-busting all around. Not one of these politicians remembers what it is like to struggle. So don't be fooled by the "pal" talk.

We need less voter apathy and more public voting about the things that matter.

We also need to outlaw lobbying by corporations. And every damn time the house and senate want a raise, WE should be voting as to whether or not they get it... Every person making minimum wage should be getting to the polls for that one.

This country is run by big business and the new imperialism. Rich begets rich and power begets power... it's lost touch with what we all have been taught that it stands for. period.

I got no use anymore for the neo-cons or the ultra-liberals. What we need is a logical party. One that sits in the middle and puts their head around all the subjects, not just the ones they know will polarize so that they can keep their extreme in power.

If America doesn't learn to come together and create some compromises and look out for our children and friends and neighbors and those who we may not understand as well as those we love dearly we are soon to be in big big trouble.

Arrogance is never pretty in the end.

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

Wasabi crunch some numbers on here for facts.
If you dont have numbers and only have finger pointing and name calling, then I suggest you hit the books.[/QUOTE]


Here are some Numbers for the bean counters in here...

Cost of Violence in Iraq
• Number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq as of May 1, 2003: 139 [DoD, 6/12/07]

• Number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq: 3,506 [DoD, 6/12/07]

• Number of U.S. service members wounded in Iraq: 25,950 [DoD, 6/12/07]

• Number of wounded in action and unable to return to duty: 11,667 [DoD, 6/12/07]

• Number of U.S. troops killed in May: 127 – the third most deadly month for U.S. troops since the war
began [icasualties.org, 6/12/07]

• Number of U.S. troops killed so far this month (June): 35 [icasualties.org, 6/12/07]

• Percent of U.S. troops killed in Iraq over the past three months who have been casualties of makeshift
explosives: 80 [New York Times, 6/2/07]

• Number of insurgents in Iraq in November 2003: 5,000 [Brookings Institution, 6/7/07]

• Number of insurgents in Iraq in March 2007: 70,000 (Sunni only) [Brookings Institution, 6/7/07]

• Number of multi-fatality bombings in May 2004: 9 [Brookings Institution, 6/7/07]

• Number of multi-fatality bombings in May 2007: 42 [Brookings Institution, 6/7/07]

• Estimated number of people killed by multiple fatality bombings since May 2003: 12,830 [Brookings
Institution, 6/7/07]

• Number of civilian casualties in Iraq since U.S.-led invasion: estimates range from 54,000 – 76,500
[Brookings Institution, 6/7/07]

• Average number of daily attacks by insurgents in July 2003: 16 [Brookings Institution, 6/7/07]

• Average number of daily attacks by insurgents between November 2006 and February 2007: 149 [Brookings
Institution, 6/7/07]

Cost of the War to American Taxpayers
• Amount appropriated for the Iraq War so far: $476.8 billion

• Approximate amount U.S. currently spending in Iraq per month: $8 billion [CRS, 9/22/06]

• Amount in President Bush’s request for new DOD spending for the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan: $235
billion (including a FY07 supplemental of $93 billion and a FY08 supplemental of $142 billion)

Strain on the Military
• Number of U.S. troops currently in Iraq as of May 2007: 144,202 [CRS, 5/2/07]

• Number of Army soldiers and Marines notified last month of potential deployment to Iraq this fall: 35,000 –
unrelated to the “surge” [MSNBC, 5/11/07]

• Number of U.S. troops that have served more than one tour in Iraq or Afghanistan: 487,377 [DoD, 4./30/07]

• Number of active duty military who have been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan since 2001: 1.1 million
[DoD, 4/30/07]

• Number of National Guard and Reservists who have been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan since 2001:
425,179 [DoD, 4/30/07]

• Number of National Guard and Reservists that have served two or more tours since September 2001:
95,344 [DoD, 4/30/07]

• Percent of troops currently deployed who are in the National Guard and Reserves: 21 [DoD, 4/30/07]

• Number of months longer Army troops in Iraq have to serve as a result of a blanket tour extension order
issued by the Pentagon: at least 3 months [Pentagon, 4/11/07]

• Percent of the Army’s available active duty combat brigades that have served at least a 12-month tour in
Iraq or Afghanistan: 100 [Washington Post, 9/14/06]

• Length of average mobilization for Reserve & National Guard members: 18 months [Washington Post, 11/5/06]

• Length of combat tours for Iraqi military: 90 days [Washington Post, 6/2/07]

• Number of active duty or reserve brigades in the U.S. considered “combat ready”: 0 [CSM, 9/22/06]

• Percent of National Guard or Reserve units so poorly equipped they are rated “not ready”: 88 [Washington
Post, 3/2/07]

• Amount of essential equipment the Army National Guard has on-hand here at home: 30% [GAO Testimony,
9/21/06]

• Amount Army needs to repair or replace equipment destroyed/deteriorated in Iraq: $66.1 billion [CBS/AP,
9/25/06]

• Amount of time Army needs to catch up on backlog of equipment repairs generated from Iraq war: 3 years
[ABC News, 2/10/07]

Reconstruction Problems and Lack of Accountability
• Amount Iraqi government says is needed over the next 4 years to rebuild country’s infrastructure: $100
billion [Reuters, 10/31/06]

• Amount of Iraqi reconstruction funds unaccounted for by the Coalition Provisional Authority: $8.8 billion
[Boston Globe, 4/6/06]

• Tons of cash shipped to Iraq in December 2003 and June 2004 under the authority of the U.S.-led
Coalition Provisional Authority: 363 [Reuters, 2/12/07]

• Amount of the $11.8 million worth of U.S.-financed electrical generators at Baghdad airport that are no
longer working: $8.6 million [NYT, 4/29/07]

• Number of hours per day of electricity in Baghdad prior to the war: 16-24 [Brookings Institution, 6/7/07]

• Number of hours per day of electricity in Baghdad, May 2007: 5.6 [Brookings Institution, 6/7/07]

• Oil production – barrels per day – prior to the war: 2.5 million [Brookings Institution, 6/7/07]

• Oil production – barrels per day – June 2007: 2.06 million [Brookings Institution, 6/7/07]

• Unemployment rate in Iraq May 2007: estimates range from 25% to 40% [Brookings Institution, 6/7/07]

• Average rate of inflation in Iraq in 2006: 50% [DoD, 3/07]

• Amount the U.S. has allocated to private contractors for reconstruction and rebuilding efforts in Iraq since
the beginning of the war. $50 billion [60 Minutes, 2/12/06]

• Amount of taxpayer dollars squandered by the government in reconstruction contracts according to U.S.
auditors: $10 billion [CNN, 2/15/07]

• Amount of taxpayer money spent by Halliburton that the Defense Contract Audit Agency has deemed
either excessive or insufficiently documented: $1.47 billion [Boston Globe, 6/28/05]

• White House office that helped facilitate a no-bid Iraq reconstruction contract worth $7 billion to
Halliburton: Vice President Cheney [GAO, June 2004]

• Amount Halliburton has received in “cost plus” contracts for Iraq reconstruction: $25.7 billion [House
Oversight and Government Reform Committee, Democratic Staff, 3/07]

• Amount the “virtual pandemic” of corruption costs Iraq each year according to the Special Inspector
General of Iraq Reconstruction: more than $5 billion [Associated Press, 4/30/07]

• Number of weapons bought by the U.S. intended for Iraqi troops that are now missing: 14,030 [SIGIR, 10/29/06]

Terrorism & Weapons of Mass Destruction
• Days since 9/11 attacks that Osama bin Laden has remained free: 2,101 [6/12/07]

• Estimated minimum number of nuclear weapons likely produced by North Korea during the Bush
Administration: 7 [Reuters, 10/26/06]

• Estimated number of centrifuges in Iran’s main nuclear facility producing reactor-grade uranium: 1,300
[New York Times, 5/14/07]

• Percent decrease in funding for the Cooperative Threat Reduction Program to contain loose nuclear
material under the President’s Fiscal Year 2008 budget from 2006: 23 [Armed Forces Journal, 5/07]

Public Opinion
• Percent of Americans who think the country is off on the wrong track: 75 [AP/IPSOS, 6/8/07]

• Percent of Americans who say the war in Iraq is going badly: 76 [New York Times/CBS Poll, 5/24/07]

• Percent of Americans who think the Bush Administration is not meeting the needs of Iraq war veterans
here at home: 70% [WNBC/Marist College, 5/25/07]

[JHarris1385]

looks like you hit up some wikipedia. now your next assignment is take those numbers and compare them to any other war in history and look at how was in office then as well.


Since your just a lurker on here and dont donate and have no pictures. I picture you as a sexually confused immagrant. No offense.

It is just quite as easy for me to say that as it is for you to google up something and post it without probably reading every line.

Like I said hit the books. All of those bullets were not relevant.

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

Nothing like pissing on a hornets nest...
This thread has had more drama than than "Beverly Hills 90210" ...Angry conservatives, disgruntled liberals, members coming out of the closet, insults, and members vowing never to return again.At the very least this thread made people think about more than their funky little 4x4 for a bit, and give some attention to something I feel deserves attention, that is the state of our union and our world. Nobody has a monopoly on the truth, and nobody should. I have expressed opinions that can be challenged and that is a good thing. This thread expressed different opinions, and I think this is still America right? I hold no ill will and can agree to disagree with anyone who does not believe the same as me.So lighten up everyone, we all still have really cool cars!

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

looks like you hit up some wikipedia. now your next assignment is take those numbers and compare them to any other war in history and look at how was in office then as well.


Since your just a lurker on here and dont donate and have no pictures. I picture you as a sexually confused immagrant. No offense.

It is just quite as easy for me to say that as it is for you to google up something and post it without probably reading every line.

Like I said hit the books. All of those bullets were not relevant.

You did ask for numbers did you not?

I gave you what you asked for.

Don't ask questions if you are afraid of the answers.

And I am guessing those bullets are relevant to the families who's son's and daughter's came home in body bags.

And as for the sexually confused Immigrant comment.No offense taken.

It would be nice if you guys from Indiana could spell some of the big words you use in here.I guess I will chalk that up to the "ed-u-macation" you guys must receive in the backwoods "Hoosier"state.

And I do have pics, and I will upload more,But I have to take my black *** to the doctor because I am getting a sex change.

[nater]

Nate: If you make more than 95% of Americans, then you are in fact in the tax bracket. Trust me. Otherwise dont ramble hypocrisy.


Umm... I never said I wasn't in "the tax bracket." Yes, GW has cut my taxes, and yes, I am "in the tax bracket"; I got a bigger tax break than your average guy did.

What makes you think that lowering my taxes now, running up a huge deficit for my children somehow equals a better life? The same as when I go to a store to buy something. The clerk will always try to get me to open a charge account. My answer? NO! I can pay for this item in cash because I have the money. Same goes for our federal budget.

Just because I prefer to pay for things up front instead of financing them doesn't make me a hypocrite.

Mr. President, you want to save me some money? Don't cut my taxes, cut your motherf*&#ing deficit war spending, you idiot!

I will sum this up one more time: Just because I don't have to pay the bill now doesn't mean there is no bill.

My point about my income is not to brag but to point out that Bush is looking out for the uber-wealthy, people that don't actually work for a living. Even some of them aren't duped by Bush's tax cuts; I have a friend who makes $1.5 million a year and hates the guy. Even Donald Trump can't stand Bush, and I'm sure Bush's tax cuts have "saved" him millions for the current year tax return, while Bush's policies put his Manhattan buildings at risk.

I would gladly pay more tax if the Feds would invest in infrastructure, science, R+D, et cetera instead of this stupid war for oil.

Nate

[JHarris1385]

After posting here. I now know what it feels like to take retards to the zoo.

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

After posting here. I now know what it feels like to take retards to the zoo.

You seem to like to throw insults...

That's what someone does when they have nothing to say or facts to back it up.

Why don't you show me some numbers that show how we are better off than we were before GWB took office...

You can use Google if you like..

[tomdietrying]

JHarris, just because someone is questioning why we are in Iraq doesn't mean they don't love the good Ol USA. That's exactly why the USA is so great. Don't you see that?

With that said, quit the name calling and let's see if you can put up some numbers to dispute those facts. In other words :p , shut them up with your intellect. :)

Peace.
Tom

[spaceCADETzoom]

I don't want to read all of the posts.

I'm sure it has been addressed...but umm...isn't this the "VX Talk" forum on the Vehicross.info site? The site is the wrong venue for this. And the specefic VX Talk forum is for talk related to the VX.

Sounds to me there's somebody NOT asking a serious question on homosexuality, being in the closet, or demographics of party makeup...and instead, there's somebody asking a loaded question, trying to instigate either Democrat bandwagon thumping or Republican bashing.

THis thread isn't about discourse. It's one guy making a rant, and hoping to get both of the following: 1)voices in agreement and 2) to bait the Republicans to "defend" themselves. Either way--this is a car forum.

It isn't "censorship" if it is deemed distasteful to ask a serious question on timing belts and spark plugs on a political forum. Why is it different if roles are reversed?

I'm neither the owner of this site nor a paying contributer (nor even a moderator). BUt I've been here for years. I've been on other car forums for even more years. ANd without a doubt in my mind, VX.info has been the most friendly "community" that I've seen on any forum, car-related or otherwise. I have had more help and genuine concern from strangers bonded by a comon car than any other forum--from rx7 forums to porsche forums, to computer forums, etc, etc.

Let's not screw that up. Let's not lie to ourselves and pretend that this thread is anything BUT baiting a fight. Let's not lie and say "why do republicans hide being gay?" is some intellectual prompt for high brow discourse.

[Chopper]

Buzz off Space boy.......let things flow.

[dutchie]

Why is it that when I read Jharris' mails I always picture myself an Alex Keaton from family ties..... :rolleyes:
Relax Bro'( :p ). .

The USA's two party system creates some black/white opinions though, which is too bad since there's not such a thing a total evil or total goodness. so let the discussion continue. but let's leave other VX owners have the right to their opinon without taking it personal.

[Chopper]

DUTCHIE....YOU"RE BACK!!!! Good to hear from you. Like I keep saying, this is cathartic...let it flow.

[WyrreJ]

I have to take my black *** to the doctor because I am getting a sex change.

I might be wrong here, but I don't think that's the part you take to the doctor when you get a sex change.

[ZEUS]

Has anyone contacted Rob Harvey to tell him about this thread yet? (OMG, that never gets old!!) :rolleyes:

On that note, this thread is just like a TV show... if you don't like the content... simply stop viewing it.


HWJ (W2)
At the very least this thread made people think about more than their funky little 4x4 for a bit, and give some attention to something I feel deserves attention, that is the state of our union and our world. Nobody has a monopoly on the truth, and nobody should. I have expressed opinions that can be challenged and that is a good thing.

Ahh, my HERO! I hadn't noticed things were so screwed up until YOU pointed it out to me! Whatever do you have in mind... what should we do to get out of all the messes our government has created for us and we for them? Surely, you must have the whole thing planned out since the world, its societies, and its individuals are, in no way, dynamic! I can see your opening pitch right now... You are standing at a podium, with the lights in your eyes and the applause from the audience drawing to a close; the attention of the world is YOURS! And when you begin to speak the world goes silent. You look calmy, right to left and back, and then with a stare of concentration you clear your throat and confidently ask... "How come Republicans hide being gay?" Tick tock, elections are coming...

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

Has anyone contacted Rob Harvey to tell him about this thread yet? (OMG, that never gets old!!) :rolleyes:

On that note, this thread is just like a TV show... if you don't like the content... simply stop viewing it.


Ahh, my HERO! I hadn't noticed things were so screwed up until YOU pointed it out to me! Whatever do you have in mind... what should we do to get out of all the messes our government has created for us and we for them? Surely, you must have the whole thing planned out since the world, its societies, and its individuals are, in no way, dynamic! I can see your opening pitch right now... You are standing at a podium, with the lights in your eyes and the applause from the audience drawing to a close; the attention of the world is YOURS! And when you begin to speak the world goes silent. You look calmy, right to left and back, and then with a stare of concentration you clear your throat and confidently ask... "How come Republicans hide being gay?" Tick tock, elections are coming...

Ya know,
There was a thread about the Michael Vick dogfighting case on here that I thought was topical and it turned into a thread about how people love their dogs.I was reading the news about Sen. Craig and saw many similarities of stories I had read about this weird phenomenon of Gay bashing republicans and christians turning out to be in reality, homosexuals. I thought that story was topical and worth discussing. I never said all republicans are gay or even a majority are.I was just caught by the irony of these clean cut "family values" conservatives scrounging for gay sex in the airport crappers.I never though it would spark so much drama, but the truth is, who cares? Elections are coming up and I will have plenty more to say,and if you don't like what I have to say, tough shi†,Don't read it, and right me off as a sexually confused immigrant, or whatever, It does not matter, sticks and stones...Now excuse me while I go look for my green card and go ice my new vagina..........

[ZEUS]

Ya know,
I never though it would spark so much drama, but the truth is, who cares? Elections are coming up and I will have plenty more to say,and if you don't like what I have to say, tough shi†..........
Come on, look at how you phrase everything you have to say... you knew you would spark drama - you said so in your first post! It's like you NEED to spark drama! A hypocrite calls attention to hyprocies - it's so stale it's not even ironic. Now you play the role of a coy and proud Republican riding the coat tails of his own 'shock and awe' campaign. Now that is ironic!

Here is a quote from one of MY favorite movies:
" ...Oh, I have chosen my words carefully, Persian; perhaps you should have done the same!"

[IndianaVX]

Wasabi,
Where do I begin? You start this stuff, without thinking about anything but stirring things up. I think I now know how it all went down with your stupid, alcoholic, republican mechanic. You must have said some of the same mutterings to him, that you have brought to this forum, twice now……. He slapped you down, just like you have here, you got mad, and started calling him names, again, and then grouping him with all the other “stupid, alcoholic, (after your latest, GAY) republicans. And now here we are again, and I look like the bad guy picking on you. I have given you 2 opportunities to say something worth reading. And its always the same……yawn.
Your copy and paste job is weak, but again, not an original thought, getting used to that. Lets go thru your last “rant”, and I will point out where your thinking or information is wrong, in MY opinion, from being mis-informed, or drawing wrong conclusions or just believing something that’s not true……..



You are right Indiana,
I shouldn't Bush bash, because hey,it's like me tripping an athlete sprinting to win the 50 yard dash at the special olympics. Can't have that.
Its not the point that you shouldn’t bash Bush. I cant say that I am in agreement with everything that he has done, or has considered doing. What I am saying is all you have done so far is bash Bush, or republicans, after making the assumption that all republicans are closet homosexuals. I wont comment on your analogy……..
I should be focusing on the Dems, because they have been in power the last 7 years and have had control of the House and Senate and got us into this mess. Oh wait no, that's not true, they have had only partial control since last election when America handed the GOP their walking papers and voted out every Republican that could be voted out. Wonder why that happened?
Not that I pay attention to polls, but this new congress that was voted in, has the lowest approval rateing ever……I think its like 18%. No, don’t focus on the democrats 8 yrs prior to the bush administration. Or the 5 or 6 times there was information on bin laden, and his whereabouts, and nothing was done. Yes, its true that the scale was tipped, but what good has come from it. The democratic voter was hoodwinked into thinking there would be all these changes, that they were going to clean up this “mess”, when all they have done is delay things, and make it harder to WIN this war. This congress is more concerned about witch hunts, and earmarks.
Bush has vowed to veto (and has) any legislation that would bring our boys home.That is a fact. He already has.
ARE YOU FOR REAL???? Bush has done no such thing, I would be mad as all get out if the president vowed to never bring our MEN, AND WOMEN home….. (here is where you say you were wrong, like you said you weren’t afraid to do, when you were…..) Bush “vowed” to veto any legislation THAT HAD A TIME TABLE FOR TROOP WITHDRAWAL!!! So, what do the democrats decide to do? They put a timetable for troop withdrawal, not once, not twice, but three times, before they understood. I wont go into details on why telling our enemy when we are leaving is a bad idea.
Comparing the "War on Terrorism" to World War II is an interesting angle though. Even Bush said "this is a new kind of war", problem is, He is fighting it
in an old kind of way. Terrorists can be anywhere, they are not a country. They could be a few guys living in New Jersey. So how does invading Iraq stop those guys from bombing a subway? It doesn't!
My obvious comparison to WW2 was that there was mass genocide going on, a threat of weapons that could be used against us,(U.S.A.) and or our allies, and the death toll rose at a much faster rate, than it has in this war. Not saying that’s a good thing, I’m just saying that there wasn’t a call to withdraw troops then, or saying that the war is lost, and our troops are murderers and rapist. We supported our troops, and they made us proud, as our troops make me proud now. If Bush was fighting this war in an “old kind of way” there would be a lot more bombs being dropped, in a lot more places. Instead, we are trying to be a bit more “selective” on who we send to see Allah, and the virgins.
Bill Clinton tried to bomb Osama bin laden's camp years before 9-11, And to date he came closer to making Osama Bin Laden a grease spot than Bush has ever dreamed of. Bill Clinton was a Democrat right?
Yes, Bill was a democrat………worried about impeachment……. And here on this point is my admission, that you are right! Clinton got closer than even that time he bombed those tents, when, (crap,) I think it was Pakistan, (feel free to correct me) was ready to hand ole bill, bin laden on a silver platter. But did he choose to, no, because terrorisom had nothing to do with saving his own skin, so America could deal with bin laden later, besides, what kind of threat could he impose??? Hmm, does the Cole come to mind, among others??
I find it funny that Americans are pretty much all immigrants but some Americans have such disdain for immigrants that don't share the same language or skin color or financial means.It is like the spoiled child on the playground who thinks he owns the slide because he was the first one to touch it. Neener neener!
Again, I have to explain MYSELF, I don’t have a problem with LEGAL immigration. We have laws, and procedures for becoming a U.S. citizen. And that system has its flaws too, but it has worked for years. But to just automatically say to millions of illegals, that you are now legal, that just cant happen, or shouldn’t happen. Many immigrants have gone thru our process, and worked hard to become productive appreciative Americans, not just to come over, and be an addition to our welfare system, and a burden to our health care. Let alone, changing our national language from English to Spanish…..after all, its too much to ask them to come here legally, let alone to ask them to learn English.
Don't think my disdain is just aimed at the republicans. I am mad at the Democrats for not calling out the republicans more for running this country so stupidly, without forethought, or any regard for the future of people at home and abroad.
Again, I don’t agree with everything the republicans are doing either, but I have to ask…….
Who do I feel can defend America better? democrat, or republican
Who do I feel will keep taxes low? democrat, or republican
Who will be strong on the issue of immigration? democrat, or republican
Who will defend the best healthcare system in the world? democrate, or republican
Who will work to keep a strong economy? democrate, or republican
But what makes America great is that we always strike a balance,For every Rush Limbaugh, there is a Bill Mahar,
No one listens to the liberal media, and those that do, are even getting tired of the constant droll. Bill mahar, pssht, there isn’t even a comparison to rush, sean, savage, or any other conservative talk show host. And its quite clear, this has the liberals worried…… which is why the liberals are working on the fairness doctrine? Do you even know what that is or read anything about that?? Im sure you will agree with it.
For every George Bush,There is a Hillary Clinton, and for every Indianavx,There is a hot wasabi junkie.
Whatever………
That's what keeps the country from becoming too conservative or too liberal.
A balance is always struck.
Come next November,I think the scales will tip in a better direction..........
Yeah, back to the right……:)

Well, I will probably just lurk this thread from this point on, not because I think I won, or you lost, but because my interest in this thread was to see what a democrat such as yourself are excited to see in the democrat party, or give me some positive things you think they are doing……anything…… but instead, all ive gotten out of this thread is how you can beat a drum, over and over, and throw out insults towards me, republicans, or anyone else not agreeing with you. Let alone jabs on spelling, or making fun of where I or jharris live. Real mature, real intellectual, Im sorry that my cordless keyboard sometimes messes up spelling, so just for you, I spell checked this for you…….

Im going back to talking about vx’s,

PS. Another 20 guest will be attending Friday……lol

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

Come on, look at how you phrase everything you have to say... you knew you would spark drama - you said so in your first post! It's like you NEED to spark drama! A hypocrite calls attention to hyprocies - it's so stale it's not even ironic. Now you play the role of a coy and proud Republican riding the coat tails of his own 'shock and awe' campaign. Now that is ironic!

Here is a quote from one of MY favorite movies:
" ...Oh, I have chosen my words carefully, Persian; perhaps you should have done the same!"

Ok, I made the whole Sen. Craig story up in my head. It is based on some weird dream I had. Of course I knew people would have varied opinions but if you read this thread from start to finish,it was never meant to do anything but make people throw in their two cents and have an interesting discourse, and that is exactly what happened.The truth is, this is the most viewed thread on here,so people may be interested in reading about more in this forum than polishing cladding.I always find it is the losing team that gets pissy when they are way behind in the game and know they are going to lose. A winning team just plays ball.So for all the republicans in here who really want to prove they are not gay and fight for Iraqi freedom, George Bush and Apple pie, I got a one way ticket to bagdhad for ya'all. Happy nation building and don't forget your kevlar!

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

Wasabi,
Where do I begin? You start this stuff, without thinking about anything but stirring things up. I think I now know how it all went down with your stupid, alcoholic, republican mechanic. You must have said some of the same mutterings to him, that you have brought to this forum, twice now……. He slapped you down, just like you have here, you got mad, and started calling him names, again, and then grouping him with all the other “stupid, alcoholic, (after your latest, GAY) republicans. And now here we are again, and I look like the bad guy picking on you. I have given you 2 opportunities to say something worth reading. And its always the same……yawn.
Your copy and paste job is weak, but again, not an original thought, getting used to that. Lets go thru your last “rant”, and I will point out where your thinking or information is wrong, in MY opinion, from being mis-informed, or drawing wrong conclusions or just believing something that’s not true……..



You are right Indiana,
I shouldn't Bush bash, because hey,it's like me tripping an athlete sprinting to win the 50 yard dash at the special olympics. Can't have that.
Its not the point that you shouldn’t bash Bush. I cant say that I am in agreement with everything that he has done, or has considered doing. What I am saying is all you have done so far is bash Bush, or republicans, after making the assumption that all republicans are closet homosexuals. I wont comment on your analogy……..
I should be focusing on the Dems, because they have been in power the last 7 years and have had control of the House and Senate and got us into this mess. Oh wait no, that's not true, they have had only partial control since last election when America handed the GOP their walking papers and voted out every Republican that could be voted out. Wonder why that happened?
Not that I pay attention to polls, but this new congress that was voted in, has the lowest approval rateing ever……I think its like 18%. No, don’t focus on the democrats 8 yrs prior to the bush administration. Or the 5 or 6 times there was information on bin laden, and his whereabouts, and nothing was done. Yes, its true that the scale was tipped, but what good has come from it. The democratic voter was hoodwinked into thinking there would be all these changes, that they were going to clean up this “mess”, when all they have done is delay things, and make it harder to WIN this war. This congress is more concerned about witch hunts, and earmarks.
Bush has vowed to veto (and has) any legislation that would bring our boys home.That is a fact. He already has.
ARE YOU FOR REAL???? Bush has done no such thing, I would be mad as all get out if the president vowed to never bring our MEN, AND WOMEN home….. (here is where you say you were wrong, like you said you weren’t afraid to do, when you were…..) Bush “vowed” to veto any legislation THAT HAD A TIME TABLE FOR TROOP WITHDRAWAL!!! So, what do the democrats decide to do? They put a timetable for troop withdrawal, not once, not twice, but three times, before they understood. I wont go into details on why telling our enemy when we are leaving is a bad idea.
Comparing the "War on Terrorism" to World War II is an interesting angle though. Even Bush said "this is a new kind of war", problem is, He is fighting it
in an old kind of way. Terrorists can be anywhere, they are not a country. They could be a few guys living in New Jersey. So how does invading Iraq stop those guys from bombing a subway? It doesn't!
My obvious comparison to WW2 was that there was mass genocide going on, a threat of weapons that could be used against us,(U.S.A.) and or our allies, and the death toll rose at a much faster rate, than it has in this war. Not saying that’s a good thing, I’m just saying that there wasn’t a call to withdraw troops then, or saying that the war is lost, and our troops are murderers and rapist. We supported our troops, and they made us proud, as our troops make me proud now. If Bush was fighting this war in an “old kind of way” there would be a lot more bombs being dropped, in a lot more places. Instead, we are trying to be a bit more “selective” on who we send to see Allah, and the virgins.
Bill Clinton tried to bomb Osama bin laden's camp years before 9-11, And to date he came closer to making Osama Bin Laden a grease spot than Bush has ever dreamed of. Bill Clinton was a Democrat right?
Yes, Bill was a democrat………worried about impeachment……. And here on this point is my admission, that you are right! Clinton got closer than even that time he bombed those tents, when, (crap,) I think it was Pakistan, (feel free to correct me) was ready to hand ole bill, bin laden on a silver platter. But did he choose to, no, because terrorisom had nothing to do with saving his own skin, so America could deal with bin laden later, besides, what kind of threat could he impose??? Hmm, does the Cole come to mind, among others??
I find it funny that Americans are pretty much all immigrants but some Americans have such disdain for immigrants that don't share the same language or skin color or financial means.It is like the spoiled child on the playground who thinks he owns the slide because he was the first one to touch it. Neener neener!
Again, I have to explain MYSELF, I don’t have a problem with LEGAL immigration. We have laws, and procedures for becoming a U.S. citizen. And that system has its flaws too, but it has worked for years. But to just automatically say to millions of illegals, that you are now legal, that just cant happen, or shouldn’t happen. Many immigrants have gone thru our process, and worked hard to become productive appreciative Americans, not just to come over, and be an addition to our welfare system, and a burden to our health care. Let alone, changing our national language from English to Spanish…..after all, its too much to ask them to come here legally, let alone to ask them to learn English.
Don't think my disdain is just aimed at the republicans. I am mad at the Democrats for not calling out the republicans more for running this country so stupidly, without forethought, or any regard for the future of people at home and abroad.
Again, I don’t agree with everything the republicans are doing either, but I have to ask…….
Who do I feel can defend America better? democrat, or republican
Who do I feel will keep taxes low? democrat, or republican
Who will be strong on the issue of immigration? democrat, or republican
Who will defend the best healthcare system in the world? democrate, or republican
Who will work to keep a strong economy? democrate, or republican
But what makes America great is that we always strike a balance,For every Rush Limbaugh, there is a Bill Mahar,
No one listens to the liberal media, and those that do, are even getting tired of the constant droll. Bill mahar, pssht, there isn’t even a comparison to rush, sean, savage, or any other conservative talk show host. And its quite clear, this has the liberals worried…… which is why the liberals are working on the fairness doctrine? Do you even know what that is or read anything about that?? Im sure you will agree with it.
For every George Bush,There is a Hillary Clinton, and for every Indianavx,There is a hot wasabi junkie.
Whatever………
That's what keeps the country from becoming too conservative or too liberal.
A balance is always struck.
Come next November,I think the scales will tip in a better direction..........
Yeah, back to the right……:)

Well, I will probably just lurk this thread from this point on, not because I think I won, or you lost, but because my interest in this thread was to see what a democrat such as yourself are excited to see in the democrat party, or give me some positive things you think they are doing……anything…… but instead, all ive gotten out of this thread is how you can beat a drum, over and over, and throw out insults towards me, republicans, or anyone else not agreeing with you. Let alone jabs on spelling, or making fun of where I or jharris live. Real mature, real intellectual, Im sorry that my cordless keyboard sometimes messes up spelling, so just for you, I spell checked this for you…….

Im going back to talking about vx’s,

PS. Another 20 guest will be attending Friday……lol

Jane, you ignorant slut......

I could easily refute 95% of the inaccurate spin you just spun, because a lot of it is what you heard second hand on Fox news or that pill popping Rush Limbaugh. The truth is I am still trying to stop laughing at the fact that even though you used "spellcheck" you spelled Democrat with an "E" at the end.Do you and Rush have the same pharmacist ? But I do admire you passion and your ability to champion mediocrity with such conviction. I admonish you not to lurk, but speak your mind,....

Oh yeah, and another thing, Obama and Hillary would make excellent leaders. They both have worked to get where they are and did not get there by riding on daddy's coat tails.George Bush was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple. Maybe Rush has not clued you in yet, But it is obvious that if Hillary does win, it is not only because of her own popularity,but her husbands as well.Everyone wants Bill Clinton back in the White House any way they can get him in there.If Bill Was allowed to seek another term against Bush, who do you think would win?

[WILLY]

[QUOTE=HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]Nothing like pissing on a hornets nest...
This thread has had more drama than than "Beverly Hills 90210" ...Angry conservatives, disgruntled liberals, members coming out of the closet,

how can i come out of a closet i was never in? You just didn't know until you started this (GAY THREAD). :_brickwal :_iamwiths

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

I stand corrected...

[WILLY]

i must say wasabi the (GAY THREAD) has been quite entertaining lmfao. :p

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

It may surprise some people in here that I supported Arnold "The Govenator" Schwarzenegger (R) in the last California election and I would vote for him again. I wish he could run for president, He would have my vote, but he was born in Austria, and is one of those pesky immigrants that are not eligible for that office. I don't really consider myself a democrat, but just a guy who wants to see the smartest, most qualified candidates be placed where they can do the most good.

[circmand]

Why is it that when I read Jharris' mails I always picture myself an Alex Keaton from family ties.....
Relax Bro'( ). .

That is so funny I was just thinking that after reading Wasabi's posts he reminded me of Larry Finkelstein from Dharma and Greg

[Scott Harness]

"Rush, Sean, Savage" quote from IndianaVX , You lost all creditability in that one sentence. Sorry Dude game over. :laughing:

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

Why is it that when I read Jharris' mails I always picture myself an Alex Keaton from family ties.....
Relax Bro'( ). .

That is so funny I was just thinking that after reading Wasabi's posts he reminded me of Larry Finkelstein from Dharma and Greg

Dang,

I don't think I ever watched a single episode of Dharma and Greg. Sit-coms are not really my bag. Was Larry a sexually confused immigrant?

[dutchie]

That is so funny I was just thinking that after reading Wasabi's posts he reminded me of Larry Finkelstein from Dharma and Greg

ha ha, good old Larry, yeah I see your point. Wasabi you should watch it though, it's quiet funny.
You let yourself get drawn to deep in what was supposed to be a relaxed discussion, time now to let it go, and it ends as it was supposed to end, no losers and no winners.

Last words though(can't help myself, I'm Dutch), the person who deserves presidency most is the person who had enough back bone to stand up against Bush's ridiculous plans to invade Iraq. The one person who wouldn't let himself get bullied in participating in this wasteful war. A person who didn't change his/her diet from French to Freedom. A person who doesn't need to score points by rushing the troops back home in a hurry.. Find yourself that person whether he/she is democrat or republican and there you have yourself a respectable president.
Oh and if you still think the war in Iraq was　justified then you're either a brainwashed monkey or an Alex Keaton

[circmand]

Dang,

I don't think I ever watched a single episode of Dharma and Greg. Sit-coms are not really my bag. Was Larry a sexually confused immigrant?


You can still catch in reruns. But no Larry was not sexually confused. He was confused about everything else. He was a balding pony tailed drug burn out from the sixties who thought the moon landing never took place. And like most rabid liberals thought people with stuff should be willing to share everything with those that did not. He of course had nothing to share.

[Anita]

Ok... I moved the thread to "Chit-Chat" so anyone wishing to read about VX subjects wont be suckered in to this one. ;)

I love a good forum for discussion but this is getting Jerry Springerish. It happens every couple of years and no one wins in these discussions - everyone gets bloody, except for the few that come in just to flame things up and watch the melee (you know who you are :cool: ), and someone inevitably leaves the membership. Not that my opinion matters but if you continue flinging those chairs try not to aim for the head...

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

You can still catch in reruns. But no Larry was not sexually confused. He was confused about everything else. He was a balding pony tailed drug burn out from the sixties who thought the moon landing never took place. And like most rabid liberals thought people with stuff should be willing to share everything with those that did not. He of course had nothing to share.

Well that's an interesting way to describe me.
But the truth is I still have almost all my hair and I only caught the tail end of the Sixties, and was more interested in breast feeding at that time than experimental drug use.
I don't consider myself a rabid liberal. I own a small business and close to a million dollars worth of property in one of the most sought after, expensive towns, in one of the most sought after , expensive states in the country.
All things considered I should be a republican.
Because I am one of those white guys with a dedicated home theater in his home, a full bar, a swimming pool, employees, kids, taxes, you name it...
But since I was a kid I have always had an interest in politics.I have always been a bit of a news junkie as well.
And in my humble opinion the Republican party has always been shady and underhanded. Starting with Watergate, Iran-Contra,"the axis of evil" the war on drugs,"Read my lips, no new taxes", Blow Job impeachments,and of course the ßull**** blood for oil war we let ourselves get suckered into.
But like I said before, I voted in our Republican Govenator and think he is doing a great job. He can actually string a cohesive sentence together in his thick Austrian accent better than some other elected officials I know who were born and educated in this country.
Sorry, George Bush is an Idiot and it is obvious to all he is in way over his head.
Sept 11 is coming up. Do you all remember the look on GWB's face when he was told the nation is under attack? Instead of jumping up and springing into action, He sat frozen their like a deer in the headlights, and remained motionless for like 10 minutes waiting for his pants to dry. I think even Dan Quaile could have handled that one better.
Oh well, it is time for me to go drop some acid and start a website on how the moon landing was staged.

Peace.

[LittleBeast]

NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE knows if there is a god. NO ONE knows why we are here, or what the meaning of life is. NO ONE knows if muslims are right, or jews are right, or if christians are right, or if its OK to be gay, or if eating animals is wrong or if there are aliens in our midst or why the hell some VXes burn oil. NO ONE KNOWS AND NO ONE EVER WILL.

So I say, live in the moment, do your best to cause the least impact on the future of life on earth, and believe in NOW. Realize that all strife, turmoil and destruction on this planet is a result of politics, religion, and money, no matter what side you are on. NO ONE is right. NO ONE is wrong. We are just humans here for a short ride in time. There is no solution, it most certainly isn't money and it most certainly isn't Jesus and I don't even know if science will help.

In order to say: "No one is right. No one is wrong." logically you yourself would have to have perfect knowledge of what is right and wrong to say this with finality, and I don't think you would say that at all. It is just like saying all religions have a little bit of the truth but none knows exactly who God is, but in order to make that statement you would have to have a perfect knowledge of God to say that. Basically in other words if you say something like: "NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE knows if there is a god. NO ONE knows why we are here, or what the meaning of life is. NO ONE knows if muslims are right, or jews are right, or if christians are right, or if its OK to be gay, or if eating animals is wrong or if there are aliens in our midst or why the hell some VXes burn oil." Then you yourself would have to know the real answers to these questions perfectly in order to say that no one else's answers are correct. I don't know if you are aware of this Bart but your views are exactly in line with what has been happening in this country for the last 80 years or so. This belief system that you seem to maybe adhere to has actually been so popular that it now has its own name. Secular humanism. Basically as you stated "live in the moment, do your best to cause the least impact on the future of life on earth, and believe in NOW." If I could summarize the secular humanism view not necessarily your words or your own view (only you can do that), but this prevailing thought in America today it would simply be to say: "As a human I should get all I can (while I can), can all I get, and sit on the can, that is the highest calling for man, because after all there is no solution, no one is right and no one is wrong there is no absolute truth." I respect your views and the secular humanism views because we as a country have been so psychologically focused for the last 80 years or so, trying to find your own personal peace inside of you picking and choosing to believe or not believe anything and no one can tell me I am wrong, that this secular humanism is obviously the end of this road. I had a presentation to a class of high school students recently on this subject where I was allowed to give my point of view on this and I would like to share it with you. Remember I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong and I welcome your comments, but I would like to give my point of view. I do not expect you to agree with many of the things I discuss, but I only want to present my own beliefs on this matter. Because I think we all deal with these types of questions. In fact I think we all ask and answer 4 basic questions as humans and I will only cut and paste a section of my presentation that addresses these 4 questions. You should probably only read if you really want to see my point of view, if not no biggie it is a lot of reading I understand completely.

"I believe there are 4 basic questions that we all ask and we all answer depending on our view of the world around us. I believe these questions are so basic and common to mankind that they reach across ages and languages. These questions are common to all peoples. I believe they are part of the eternity that God placed upon our hearts (Ecc) so that we would not be content and fulfilled with anything short of a relationship with an eternal God. We must be very careful how we answer these questions because it will determine how effective we are in leading and where we are leading. Each of the two world views I mentioned earlier answers these questions differently.
Four Questions Everybody Asks
Question #1: Who Am I? What is my nature, my essence?
Question #2: Why Am I Here? What is my goal, my purpose?
Question #3: What Is Wrong with the World? Because obviously something is wrong.
Question #4: How Can What’s Wrong Be Made Right? Because living in a world where they cannot be made right is unthinkable and unlivable.
This is in the soul of every person to wrestle with these questions.
1st lets answer these questions from the perspective of our culture. What is the secular humanistic answer to these questions? Then we will look at Colossians to show us the Christian answer to these questions.
Question #1: Who Am I?
You are nothing, an accident, a mistake, a glorified ape, the result of random evolutionary processes, no rhyme, no reason, and no purpose that is all you are.
Question #2: Why Am I Here?
You are here to consume and enjoy, get all you can, can all you get, and sit on the can. How much money would be enough? A little bit more always a little bit more.

Put these two together and this is a lethal combination. Well, if we are really just a random mistake and we are here to consume and enjoy then I need to maximize my consuming and enjoying and no one better get in my way because after all they are nothing anyways. This is the same line of thought that sees an unborn baby as an inconvenient lump of flesh or worse this child will be severely deformed and will hinder your ability to consume and enjoy. Or even worse you are old and feeble, the end is near, you not only have a right to die, but a duty to die, we can give you a pill and your children will not have to take care of you anymore and they can consume and enjoy better. In this secular humanism world view, Who am I? I am nothing. Why am I here? To make the most of it, to consume and enjoy while I can.
Question #3: What Is Wrong with the World?
People are either insufficiently educated or insufficiently governed. People either don’t know enough or they are not being watched enough.
Question #4: How Can What’s Wrong Be Made Right?
More education. More government. Teach people more stuff. The only problem with this is? If you take a sinful murderous human being and educate them, they only become more sophisticated in their ability to destroy. Well then we need to govern them more. Really? Who is governing the governors?
These answers leave those who adhere to this philosophy wanting and empty and lacking.

How then do we respond?
Christian Theistic answers to these answers:
Question #1: Who Am I?
The crowning glory of the creation of God.
Colossians 1:15-17 (New American Standard Bible)
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.”
John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”, Genesis 1:26 “Let us make man in our image and our likeness.”
Question #2: Why Am I Here?
To bring glory and honor to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Colossians 1:16-18 (New American Standard Bible)
“all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.”
Question #3: What Is Wrong with the World?
Me and everyone like me, who refuse to acknowledge the supremacy of Jesus Christ and live in the pursuit of self.
Colossians 1:19-21 (New American Standard Bible)
“For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,”
Question #4: How Can What’s Wrong Be Made Right?
Through the penal, substitutionary, atoning death of the Son of God, and through repentance and faith on the part of sinners.
Colossians 1:22-23 (New American Standard Bible)
“yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach-- if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.”
Our culture (secular humanism) leaves people empty and hopeless, man is left worthless, left to pursue our own satisfaction and never find it.
With Christ (Christian theism) we are seen as precious, we have a purpose, we are powerless but it is ok because we were purchased.
What is the difference in how we are to lead as Christians and how believers in other religions are leading. Well, it helps to remember that basically in every other religion in the world you need to have a religious experience, and after that you need to do everything in your power to do more good than bad. That experience and how the good and bad are done may be a little different across religions, but this is basically every religion outside of Christianity.
There are 3 problems with this:
-We can’t be good, we can try but we can’t do it, we are totally radically depraved, even when we do things that look to be good they are for the wrong motives.
-What about all the things we did before this religious experience?
-Where is the assurance?
What is more important how you start something or how you finish it? In the decathlon what is more important my standing after the first event or the last event? In a race what is most important your position at the beginning of the race or at the end? In high school what is most important your class rank your freshman year or your senior year? In a football game what is most important the score after the 1st quarter or the score at the end of the game? In our Christian Walk what is more important when and how it started or how we continued until the end? In our Christian Walk what is more important when and how we started following in such a way to deserve followers or if we continue to do so until the very end? If we live our Christian lives pointing back to a time that we prayed a prayer or a time when we felt close to God, yet do not currently experience a walk with Him today, where are we leading? What are we following today if all our hope is in an event in the past? A great leader continues to follow Christ all the way to the end.
Hebrews 4:13
“We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”
Colossians 1:22-23
“yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach-- if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard”

I am sorry this is so long, and thanks to any who actually read this. I respect all of your points of view and all of your amazing senses of humor, I hope that this made you think in some way and I really do care about all of you and I hope and pray that you all find happiness and hope in some belief, because we all have beliefs and trust in something or someone whether we know it or not.
Your VX brother,
Ryan H
USA Decathlon Team

[JHarris1385]

Well said David (IndianaVX).

Wasabi, seriously did you really think this was not going to cause this kind of outcome?

I have noticed that your only numbers or facts were the ones you copied and pasted. Your own thoughts and knowledge were mere finger pointing and name calling.

Some background on me. I am politically charged. My father was state rep. in the 80's and early 90's, served as city and county judge... I have had many political science courses in the past and present. I am a member of the nation young republicans (ages 18-40). The list goes on...

Other than this forum I also visit a local and national political forum where I spend my time discussing such topics. If you like I could copy and past my statements on here from that forum. But I have yet to do so becuase for some reason this topic seems out of place and a waste of my time to discuss in two places. I could only imagine what it would be like for a member to ask how to change the oil in his camry on the political forum. Granted, this is an open forum with no guidelines so I accept. However I will advise that if you do have questions and political concerns please visit a poltical forum either national or local, and or seek guideance by taking a course at a local community college. There is alot to be learned.

I at this point stand by the fact that this is waste of time and effort to debate on here becuase you (Wasabi) will never accept obvious defeat, but will in fact just continue to post replies like your past ones. I can only imagine your response. Side note: I think your rant here should cost you at least $20.

Dutchie, welcome back from lurkville. My best friends is German (only referenced since he is not American) and you act just like him. I will tell you the same thing. I do not wish such actions, but I would like to see how your leaders react to a terriost attack of the same nature that was placed on us.
Oh and by the way I picture you as Jonathan Quan "data" from the movie The Goonies.



P.S. I did not use spell checker and do not see the use of it since this is a forum and not a term paper. If you want to be technical, overlook your past posts.

[WyrreJ]

In order to say: "No one is right. No one is wrong." logically you yourself would have to have perfect knowledge of what is right and wrong to say this with finality, and I don't think you would say that at all. It is just like saying all religions have a little bit of the truth but none knows exactly who God is, but in order to make that statement you would have to have a perfect knowledge of God to say that. Basically in other words if you say something like: "NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE knows if there is a god. NO ONE knows why we are here, or what the meaning of life is. NO ONE knows if muslims are right, or jews are right, or if christians are right, or if its OK to be gay, or if eating animals is wrong or if there are aliens in our midst or why the hell some VXes burn oil." Then you yourself would have to know the real answers to these questions perfectly in order to say that no one else's answers are correct.

I think you completely missed the point. The reason he knows that no one knows the "truth" is because you can not know something that is unprovable. The very definition of faith is belief without proof. So you can have faith, you can believe, but you can not know. You might even be right in your faith, but you can't prove it so you can't know you are right.

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

In order to say: "No one is right. No one is wrong." logically you yourself would have to have perfect knowledge of what is right and wrong to say this with finality, and I don't think you would say that at all. It is just like saying all religions have a little bit of the truth but none knows exactly who God is, but in order to make that statement you would have to have a perfect knowledge of God to say that. Basically in other words if you say something like: "NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE knows if there is a god. NO ONE knows why we are here, or what the meaning of life is. NO ONE knows if muslims are right, or jews are right, or if christians are right, or if its OK to be gay, or if eating animals is wrong or if there are aliens in our midst or why the hell some VXes burn oil." Then you yourself would have to know the real answers to these questions perfectly in order to say that no one else's answers are correct. I don't know if you are aware of this Bart but your views are exactly in line with what has been happening in this country for the last 80 years or so. This belief system that you seem to maybe adhere to has actually been so popular that it now has its own name. Secular humanism. Basically as you stated "live in the moment, do your best to cause the least impact on the future of life on earth, and believe in NOW." If I could summarize the secular humanism view not necessarily your words or your own view (only you can do that), but this prevailing thought in America today it would simply be to say: "As a human I should get all I can (while I can), can all I get, and sit on the can, that is the highest calling for man, because after all there is no solution, no one is right and no one is wrong there is no absolute truth." I respect your views and the secular humanism views because we as a country have been so psychologically focused for the last 80 years or so, trying to find your own personal peace inside of you picking and choosing to believe or not believe anything and no one can tell me I am wrong, that this secular humanism is obviously the end of this road. I had a presentation to a class of high school students recently on this subject where I was allowed to give my point of view on this and I would like to share it with you. Remember I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong and I welcome your comments, but I would like to give my point of view. I do not expect you to agree with many of the things I discuss, but I only want to present my own beliefs on this matter. Because I think we all deal with these types of questions. In fact I think we all ask and answer 4 basic questions as humans and I will only cut and paste a section of my presentation that addresses these 4 questions. You should probably only read if you really want to see my point of view, if not no biggie it is a lot of reading I understand completely.

"I believe there are 4 basic questions that we all ask and we all answer depending on our view of the world around us. I believe these questions are so basic and common to mankind that they reach across ages and languages. These questions are common to all peoples. I believe they are part of the eternity that God placed upon our hearts (Ecc) so that we would not be content and fulfilled with anything short of a relationship with an eternal God. We must be very careful how we answer these questions because it will determine how effective we are in leading and where we are leading. Each of the two world views I mentioned earlier answers these questions differently.
Four Questions Everybody Asks
Question #1: Who Am I? What is my nature, my essence?
Question #2: Why Am I Here? What is my goal, my purpose?
Question #3: What Is Wrong with the World? Because obviously something is wrong.
Question #4: How Can What’s Wrong Be Made Right? Because living in a world where they cannot be made right is unthinkable and unlivable.
This is in the soul of every person to wrestle with these questions.
1st lets answer these questions from the perspective of our culture. What is the secular humanistic answer to these questions? Then we will look at Colossians to show us the Christian answer to these questions.
Question #1: Who Am I?
You are nothing, an accident, a mistake, a glorified ape, the result of random evolutionary processes, no rhyme, no reason, and no purpose that is all you are.
Question #2: Why Am I Here?
You are here to consume and enjoy, get all you can, can all you get, and sit on the can. How much money would be enough? A little bit more always a little bit more.

Put these two together and this is a lethal combination. Well, if we are really just a random mistake and we are here to consume and enjoy then I need to maximize my consuming and enjoying and no one better get in my way because after all they are nothing anyways. This is the same line of thought that sees an unborn baby as an inconvenient lump of flesh or worse this child will be severely deformed and will hinder your ability to consume and enjoy. Or even worse you are old and feeble, the end is near, you not only have a right to die, but a duty to die, we can give you a pill and your children will not have to take care of you anymore and they can consume and enjoy better. In this secular humanism world view, Who am I? I am nothing. Why am I here? To make the most of it, to consume and enjoy while I can.
Question #3: What Is Wrong with the World?
People are either insufficiently educated or insufficiently governed. People either don’t know enough or they are not being watched enough.
Question #4: How Can What’s Wrong Be Made Right?
More education. More government. Teach people more stuff. The only problem with this is? If you take a sinful murderous human being and educate them, they only become more sophisticated in their ability to destroy. Well then we need to govern them more. Really? Who is governing the governors?
These answers leave those who adhere to this philosophy wanting and empty and lacking.

How then do we respond?
Christian Theistic answers to these answers:
Question #1: Who Am I?
The crowning glory of the creation of God.
Colossians 1:15-17 (New American Standard Bible)
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.”
John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”, Genesis 1:26 “Let us make man in our image and our likeness.”
Question #2: Why Am I Here?
To bring glory and honor to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Colossians 1:16-18 (New American Standard Bible)
“all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.”
Question #3: What Is Wrong with the World?
Me and everyone like me, who refuse to acknowledge the supremacy of Jesus Christ and live in the pursuit of self.
Colossians 1:19-21 (New American Standard Bible)
“For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,”
Question #4: How Can What’s Wrong Be Made Right?
Through the penal, substitutionary, atoning death of the Son of God, and through repentance and faith on the part of sinners.
Colossians 1:22-23 (New American Standard Bible)
“yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach-- if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.”
Our culture (secular humanism) leaves people empty and hopeless, man is left worthless, left to pursue our own satisfaction and never find it.
With Christ (Christian theism) we are seen as precious, we have a purpose, we are powerless but it is ok because we were purchased.
What is the difference in how we are to lead as Christians and how believers in other religions are leading. Well, it helps to remember that basically in every other religion in the world you need to have a religious experience, and after that you need to do everything in your power to do more good than bad. That experience and how the good and bad are done may be a little different across religions, but this is basically every religion outside of Christianity.
There are 3 problems with this:
-We can’t be good, we can try but we can’t do it, we are totally radically depraved, even when we do things that look to be good they are for the wrong motives.
-What about all the things we did before this religious experience?
-Where is the assurance?
What is more important how you start something or how you finish it? In the decathlon what is more important my standing after the first event or the last event? In a race what is most important your position at the beginning of the race or at the end? In high school what is most important your class rank your freshman year or your senior year? In a football game what is most important the score after the 1st quarter or the score at the end of the game? In our Christian Walk what is more important when and how it started or how we continued until the end? In our Christian Walk what is more important when and how we started following in such a way to deserve followers or if we continue to do so until the very end? If we live our Christian lives pointing back to a time that we prayed a prayer or a time when we felt close to God, yet do not currently experience a walk with Him today, where are we leading? What are we following today if all our hope is in an event in the past? A great leader continues to follow Christ all the way to the end.
Hebrews 4:13
“We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”
Colossians 1:22-23
“yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach-- if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard”

I am sorry this is so long, and thanks to any who actually read this. I respect all of your points of view and all of your amazing senses of humor, I hope that this made you think in some way and I really do care about all of you and I hope and pray that you all find happiness and hope in some belief, because we all have beliefs and trust in something or someone whether we know it or not.
Your VX brother,
Ryan H
USA Decathlon Team

Thank you,
I now feel I have born again in Jesus.
I renounce my evil,sinful ways and have found myself transformed in the lord.
I am now not only a born again christian, but a republican as well.
you have all convinced me of my evil, sinful, liberal ways and I am so ashamed of the way I have been talking in this forum.
God has shown me the light, and I will spend the rest of the afternoon deleting all the pornography off my computer, Flushing all my high grade marujuana and cocaine down the toilet.
I vow never to fornicate again until marriage, and probably even after as well.
I vow to vote for any candidate who is a true christian, no matter how stupid he may be.
I will join a church, one headed by a true man of god such as Jimmy Swaggert,or Jim Baker,or Ted Haggert or Jim Jones,because I need guidance by someone who knows the word of god and the meaning of life much better than say...Monty Python.
Thank you for your divine inspiration...

God bless!!

[WyrreJ]

I have noticed that your only numbers or facts were the ones you copied and pasted.Huh? You would prefer that he make up numbers and facts instead?


Side note: I think your rant here should cost you at least $20.That's reprehensible.


Dutchie, welcome back from lurkville. My best friends is German (only referenced since he is not American) and you act just like him. I will tell you the same thing. I do not wish such actions, but I would like to see how your leaders react to a terriost attack of the same nature that was placed on us.
What a lot of americans don't understand is that the rest of the world has been dealing with terrorism for centuries. For the most part they've figured out that terrorism is a crime, not a war. Our country's naivete is no excuse for reacting in such a poorly conceived fashion. Do we not fashion ourselves the greatest nation? Shouldn't that mean we have a responsibility to behave that way too? Doesn't that mean our leaders have a duty to lead responsibly rather then fuel the fires of fear and reactionism?

Attempting to justify such poor governance by claiming another country would do the same is absolutely beneath us. Are we leaders or are we followers?

[Scott Harness]

;) What does everybody think of the God gene concept? I know I don't have it and where in the hell is God when you need him :confused: My eternal place :flame: :flame2:

[JHarris1385]

What a lot of americans don't understand is that the rest of the world has been dealing with terrorism for centuries. For the most part they've figured out that terrorism is a crime, not a war. Our country's naivete is no excuse for reacting in such a poorly conceived fashion. Do we not fashion ourselves the greatest nation? Shouldn't that mean we have a responsibility to behave that way too? Doesn't that mean our leaders have a duty to lead responsibly rather then fuel the fires of fear and reactionism?

Attempting to justify such poor governance by claiming another country would do the same is absolutely beneath us. Are we leaders or are we followers?


You just will neverstand will you. I never denied the fact that other countries deal with terrorism. It is obivious that they do. But thanks for trying to make it sound like I have no clue. My statement was obviously pointing to the fact that when a nation is victim to such an act they will become a follower of thee. So I ask you this. If you were in office, what would your exact actions be? And please refrain from posting. " I certainly would not do this and that. Stuff that W has done." Really I am interested in the direction you would have taken our country if you were the leader. Take your time and think about it, dont just post a ignorant reply within 10 minutes.

...spell check was not used.

[JHarris1385]

Wasabi. Not sure if you have heard of them or what your taste in music is. But on a lighter note you should buy/download/borrow NoFX's cd "War on Errorism" It is a good listen and you would like the content.

...No harm intended in this message.

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

Wasabi. Not sure if you have heard of them or what your taste in music is. But on a lighter note you should buy/download/borrow NoFX's cd "War on Errorism" It is a good listen and you would like the content.

...No harm intended in this message.

I will take a listen, I like Nofx, and if your equally as open listen to nine inch nails " Year Zero" or watch the movie "V for Vendetta" ...you might find them interesting.

[JHarris1385]

I will take a listen, I like Nofx, and if your equally as open listen to nine inch nails " Year Zero" or watch the movie "V for Vendetta" ...you might find them interesting.


Heard both, like both. The NoFX cd is good. Fat Mike hates Bush to the extreme.

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

Heard both, like both. The NoFX cd is good. Fat Mike is hates Bush to the extreme.


See we CAN agree on some things!

[WyrreJ]

YMy statement was obviously pointing to the fact that when a nation is victim to such an act they will become a follower of thee.
I do not understand what you mean by "will become a follower of thee." Other countries have been dealing with terrorism for generations and have not gone out and started unprovoked wars in response.


If you were in office, what would your exact actions be?
1) Investment in infrastructure. Instead of ridiculous spending on "anti-terrorism" I would have ear-marked money for first responders like paramedics, police, fire-fighters and hospitals. Money for cities to develop emergency contingency plans. Investment in the kind of things that help with any sort of disaster be it man-made terrorism, man-made accidents or natural disasters.

2) Investment in people. Instead of funding the military-industrial complex to kill thousands of innocents and thus create more terrorists I would have invested in aid to the areas where terrorists find support. The invasion of afghanistan was a great start, get involved with the locals and give them good reason support us and not our enemies. The problem is we did not follow through. After accomplishing the headline news objective of toppling the taliban we bailed out. Leaving them to deal with a power vacuum of our own creation.

Iran was doing pretty well compared to previous decades, Khatami needed more support. Instead, the invasion of Iraq polarized opinion against the US and thus him and now the country has taken a major step backwards under Ahmadinejad.

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

Alright...
Much has been said in here, maybe too much. So I am gonna put in one last thought and be done.
I think religion and political affiliations are determined by two factors.
Location and parentage...
I am willing to bet Jharris and Indianavx both had fathers and mothers who were republican. I know for a fact they both live in the midwest in a fine state that is also mostly Republican.
I would also venture to guess( and please correct me if I am wrong)they had grandfathers and grandmothers who were also GOP.
I would also bet if they were both born and raised in Iraq,They might both be devout muslims and possibly insurgents, Burning American flags and shouting "Death to America" as loud as possible.
My point is I think where you live and what your parents believe greatly influences your own beliefs.
If I was born in India, I might be a hindu, and hate pakistanis.
If I were born in Mexico, I might be Catholic, and hate the INS.
If I were born in Germany in the 40's, I might hate jews.
I just think knowing that it is important to think outside the box, and question the beliefs you have been spoon fed since birth.
just my 2 cents.
Think about it..

[tomdietrying]

I couldn't agree more..................here's just another thought...............every year for as long as man kept recording tells us the apostolic is coming........Who's to say it hasn't already been faced by some cilizations. It could be argued by some Aztecs that it did happen in 1519, maybe it was in December 2004 when the tusnami hit, or perhaps to some Japanese it was in August 1945 when the the bomb fell.

It's a matter of perpective and not everyone perspective is the same. Give some thought.

Peace.
Tom

[JHarris1385]

Alright...
Much has been said in here, maybe too much. So I am gonna put in one last thought and be done.
I think religion and political affiliations are determined by two factors.
Location and parentage...
I am willing to bet Jharris and Indianavx both had fathers and mothers who were republican. I know for a fact they both live in the midwest in a fine state that is also mostly Republican.
I would also venture to guess( and please correct me if I am wrong)they had grandfathers and grandmothers who were also GOP.
I would also bet if they were both born and raised in Iraq,They might both be devout muslims and possibly insurgents, Burning American flags and shouting "Death to America" as loud as possible.
My point is I think where you live and what your parents believe greatly influences your own beliefs.
If I was born in India, I might be a hindu, and hate pakistanis.
If I were born in Mexico, I might be Catholic, and hate the INS.
If I were born in Germany in the 40's, I might hate jews.
I just think knowing that it is important to think outside the box, and question the beliefs you have been spoon fed since birth.
just my 2 cents.
Think about it..

Just when i thought it was going to end you posted this. First off Indiana is not majority republican. I live in one the most democratic counties in Indiana as well (Clark), see for yourself. True my dad is a republican but my grandparents are not. Actually they are strict liberals, and becuase so there was not any political talk at gatherings before they passed away. However my dad's father was the only republican out of the four and was a local and national figure. I certainly agree your almost born into a party, but through education you choose the party yourself. I think outside the box without a doubt, and it is just a coinsidence that we both live here in Indiana. Quite suprized there have been so many viewers and few to respond and stand up. I guess they realized long before I did that this fight was better left unfought since it has been a true waste of time.

[ZEUS]

It was not a complete waste of time. I had fun reading it - some of it got way too long winded then I got bored. Otherwise, like Chopper said, you get to learn more about the people here with threads like this.

[circmand]

I cant remember who said it but it goes like this; If you are a Republican before you are 30 you are uncaring of your fellow man but if you are Democratic after you are 30 you are an idiot. The idea is when you are under 30 you do not have a lot and are open to the idea of everyone sharing because you are likely to end up with more, but after 30 years you mostly have worked hard and started getting some stuff so the idea of giving some of it up to someone who hasn't is not as attractive.

Just like you see Osama Bin Laderhosen calling for Muslims to blow themselves up you do not see him doing it

Just like we all have heard John Lennon singing for everybody to share and get along most of his wealth ended up in Yoko or Seans hands.

Now many here think George W is the first person to start a war or that the Middle East was all peaceful and happy before we attacked Iraq. Well that isn't true or old Bill Clinton would not have ever negotiated ever lasting peace in the Middle East about 6 times during the 8 years he was in charge. I seem to remember he started the war in Afghanistan and used up all of our smart bombs without ever arranging to build more. As a matter of fact he had the military bomb the Chinese Embassy and a milk factory and an aspirin plant and turned down India when they offered us Bin Laden when we accused him of the first Trade Center bombing.

Now old GW he has made more mistakes than a cow has nipples over the War in Iraq but only one Senator voted against giving him the power to do so. And quite frankly I do not beleive the Democrats who say yeah we voted for it but we did not expect him to do it. They are either lieing or they thought he would not do it and they could use that as proof that they were strong on National Defense and the Republicans are weak.

It astounds me that the Democrats are constantly saying on one hand he is doing all this stuff and fooling them and such but on the other hand saying he is an idiot. Well if he is an idiot what does that say about the Democrats who have been consistantly fooled by him for the last 6 years?

All politicians suck and anyone who beleives one side over the other is such a moron thatthey should not be allowed to vote.

[Zorak]

I cant remember who said it but it goes like this; If you are a Republican before you are 30 you are uncaring of your fellow man but if you are Democratic after you are 30 you are an idiot..


Actually, it is: if you are a Republican before you are 30, you have no heart, and if you are a Democrat after you turn 30, you have no brain.



[/QUOTE]All politicians suck and anyone who beleives one side over the other is such a moron thatthey should not be allowed to vote.[/QUOTE]

lol-if one did not believe one side over the other then they wouldn't know who to vote for anyway and probably wouldn't. I follow the lesser of two (or sometimes three) evils philosophy myself ;)

[nfpgasmask]

I think you completely missed the point. The reason he knows that no one knows the "truth" is because you can not know something that is unprovable. The very definition of faith is belief without proof. So you can have faith, you can believe, but you can not know. You might even be right in your faith, but you can't prove it so you can't know you are right.
Exactly, WyrreJ. I have no FAITH in anything man-made. God is a concept concieved by man and the bible was written by people. I believe that the bible is a series of stories designed to help guide people through life, and help them understand things that were at one time (and in some cases still) not understood. Nothing more.

And if there is a higher power, or some sort of force swaying things back and forth, then it is something that NO ONE on earth can identify. It is something we cannot even imagine or even begin to explain. For a person, or a group of people to believe that they in fact CAN explain it, is either utterly pompous, or stupidly insane. Only in death may the real meaning of life become apparent, but then again, we might just turn into soulless dust...


In order to say: "No one is right. No one is wrong." logically you yourself would have to have perfect knowledge of what is right and wrong to say this with finality, and I don't think you would say that at all.
Like WyrreJ said above, I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I am saying exactly the opposite. NO ONE has a perfect knowledge of ANYTHING!



I am sorry this is so long, and thanks to any who actually read this. I respect all of your points of view and all of your amazing senses of humor, I hope that this made you think in some way and I really do care about all of you and I hope and pray that you all find happiness and hope in some belief, because we all have beliefs and trust in something or someone whether we know it or not.
Your VX brother,
Ryan H
USA Decathlon Team
The only thing I believe in is nature. It is the only "God" I will ever "Pray" to, because it is this planet that gives us life. Not Jesus, not George W., not Allah and not money. Its water and sunshine and apples. We are all just animals. I know you religious people will scoff at that, but that is what I think. All of the "emotions" that make us human, are just extensions of our animal instincts. Everything we do is based on instinct, but because we have free will and a moderate amount of contemplative intelligence, we have created societies that go against instinct. Everything from religion to sitting in a cubicle is society's way of de-animalizing humanity. When you get right down to it, we are just like every other four legged creature on earth. We KILL, FCUK, and EAT. That is how we survive, except with layers and layers and layers of bullsh1t on top to disguise and sugar coat what we are REALLY doing. And THAT is all I was trying to say, but in a much nicer way.

:) Bart

PS - On the "Secular humanism" concept, why are we always labeling eachother? Must everyone fit perfectly into some man-made mold? Must we all be dyed in the wool Republicans? Or dyed in the wool Social Darwinists? Or dyed in the wool Satanists? Or dyed in the wool Liberals? No two people see life exactly the same way, so lets leave the labeling to Coke and Pepsi.

[nfpgasmask]

Question everything you know!

That is the one thing that "faithful" people of any denomination typically do not do my friend, but I most certainly agree that they should.

I was raised Catholic, went to 6 years of Catholic school in fact, but it is because I have always asked "who are you to tell me what is true and what is not", that lead me to think the way I do now. Some people just choose to eat the mush on the end of the spoon, but some people spit it out after a while and ask to try something different.

Bart



Alright...
Much has been said in here, maybe too much. So I am gonna put in one last thought and be done.
I think religion and political affiliations are determined by two factors.
Location and parentage...
I am willing to bet Jharris and Indianavx both had fathers and mothers who were republican. I know for a fact they both live in the midwest in a fine state that is also mostly Republican.
I would also venture to guess( and please correct me if I am wrong)they had grandfathers and grandmothers who were also GOP.
I would also bet if they were both born and raised in Iraq,They might both be devout muslims and possibly insurgents, Burning American flags and shouting "Death to America" as loud as possible.
My point is I think where you live and what your parents believe greatly influences your own beliefs.
If I was born in India, I might be a hindu, and hate pakistanis.
If I were born in Mexico, I might be Catholic, and hate the INS.
If I were born in Germany in the 40's, I might hate jews.
I just think knowing that it is important to think outside the box, and question the beliefs you have been spoon fed since birth.
just my 2 cents.
Think about it..

[Ldub]

YA BUNCH OF HAIRLESS MONKEYS !

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/CRYPTO.jpg

[WyrreJ]

The quotation is:
If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.It's actually a misquote misattributed to Winston Churchill.

it's also a load of bullsheet. It presumes that people are solely the product of their experience, that they are unable to reason there way to an understanding of a situation outside of their own. Sure, lots of people really are the self-centered, but that's hardly an ideal.


Just like you see Osama Bin Laderhosen calling for Muslims to blow themselves up you do not see him doing itAnd Al Gore flying in private jets and riding in limos when calling for people to conserve energy.
Or George Bush declaring war but never firing a single shot with his own hands.


Now many here think George W is the first person to start a war or that the Middle East was all peaceful and happy before we attacked Iraq.Yeah, MANY people here think that.


Now old GW he has made more mistakes than a cow has nipples over the War in Iraq but only one Senator voted against giving him the power to do so. And quite frankly I do not beleive the Democrats who say yeah we voted for it but we did not expect him to do it. They are either lieing or they thought he would not do it and they could use that as proof that they were strong on National Defense and the Republicans are weak.
One thing the democrats have failed at and failed miserably is in their role as the loyal opposition. When they were a minority they just went along when they could have least done the "bully pulpit" thing and now that they have a majority in congress they best they can do is the occasional token resistance.

[nfpgasmask]

Ahem, indeed we are Master Dub!

:) Bart


YA BUNCH OF HAIRLESS MONKEYS !

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/CRYPTO.jpg

[Chopper]

;) What does everybody think of the God gene concept? I know I don't have it and where in the hell is God when you need him :confused: My eternal place :flame: :flame2:
Sort of a tiresome read, but a view with some merit. The place I stumble on the theory is...animals fear and fight against death, every bit as much as we do...at least when it's upon them. They manage to face oblivion and function without the gene. Neolithic man could ponder death, we presume animals cannot, but you're not allowing much time between aquiring the fear, and evolving the gene to overcome it in their model. Left me with a bit of an Art Bell feel...but I occasionally think of it still. Oh yeah...I was wondering how long it was gonna take for someone to whip their Jesus out. I am enjoying this thread...it's following all the great thread pathways...like Anita said

[Chopper]

I was raised by wolves...you can only imagine my political views ;) (hint: it's the same as my "religion" or lack thereof...unloading about 3 or 4 billion humans without scorching the planet is the platform)

[JoFotoz]

..........I cant wait for real proof of ET life !!

Boy Oh Boy , will that ever screw with the arrogant dogma of most 'organized' religions.


I think one phrase sums it up... and it covers the scourge of the modern day blame game , hypocrisy and deceit.

Simply said so long ago...


DO UNTO OTHERS........


jo

[WyrreJ]

Forget the God Gene, go with, "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind."

[ZEUS]

lol-if one did not believe one side over the other then they wouldn't know who to vote for anyway and probably wouldn't. I follow the lesser of two (or sometimes three) evils philosophy myself ;)
I voted for Nader last time around... some may laugh and say I threw away my vote. That's fine, but I think voting for either of the two "elite idiots" in '04 was pretty much throwing your vote away anyway! Things would be just as screwed up had Kerry won the election... maybe in different ways but still screwed up. I wonder how many times he would have brought troops home and sent them back again, then brought them home, then sent them back again...

But I voted for Nader, because of the 3 reasons to run for President (my view anyway), I think he represents the greater cause first:
Clinton = Power then duty
Bush = Greed, Power, Duty (as in revenge in his case - he was eyeing Iraq and "WMD" before he was even elected)
Kerry = I don't even think HE settled on why he wanted to run!
Nader = Duty - The guy knows he is not going to win, but he keeps running for Pres. to show people they don't have to be limited to the lesser of two evils. So my vote was for the hope of a greater future; a multi-party government. Face it, we were in trouble no matter what, during that election and the last couple years! No matter who would have ended up in office, we would be hurting right now.
But I probably would have voted for Dean had he not been shot down for being so energized and passionate.

[ZEUS]

..........I cant wait for real proof of ET life !!

Boy Oh Boy , will that ever screw with the arrogant dogma of most 'organized' religions.
jo

The church would come up with something! They have survived this long on books and stories. Mormons would just alter their teachings to include whatever aliens were discovered as a new chapter to their story. They would probably say, "Joseph Smith was hand in hand with God when he created his own new world in the stars. He wanted his alien people to be able to reach out to humans to show them how good heaven is. That is why they are coming here now. We are to be servants of these great beings to show dedication to our father." Not laughing? Good, cuz I'm not joking; I'm probably right!

[Chopper]

[QUOTE=ZEUS] He wanted his alien people to be able to reach out to humans to show them how good heaven is. That is why they are coming here now. We are to be servants of these great beings to show dedication to our father." Said Cortez to the Inca.....(like the toothpick in the banana....monkeys fall for this one every time)

[Chopper]

Forget the God Gene, go with, "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind."
If I remember (it's been twenty some years) the big problem with this one is, severing the Corpus Callosum (link for the brains hemispheres) was never shown to lessen the hallucinations in schizoids did help in some epilectics. Again, not without merit, it's an interesting direction. Got a problem with the notion that writing killed the Bicameral mind and brought on conscious awareness.....seems backward.

[MrCrowley]

I have only four words to say about this topic. Dan Quayle, George Bush. Its what you dont say that hurts so bad.

I dont need any more hate after the "Kerry has conceded" and "why do republicans drive SUVs" threads. Its all summarized for me when I drove past a big fraternity house last week here at UGA and it was side by side SUVs from one end of the frat house to the other. The whole parking strip of about 15 spaces. Including a BMW X5....

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

I met this hot redhead last night, I am thinking about asking her out, I wanted to get your guys approval, you think we'd be a good couple?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=IloVNbJxg9o

[circmand]

She seems like a good fit but I cant really tell until we see if she shaves her legs and armpits.

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

I am hoping she shaves more than that!

[Chopper]

Claire hot????? uh...ok. Think I'd rather do Judy Jetson....an' I've a thing for redheads...I've married a couple of 'em :laughr:

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

Judy Jetson would probably be more inclined to drive a vehicross.

[LittleBeast]

;) What does everybody think of the God gene concept? I know I don't have it and where in the hell is God when you need him :confused: My eternal place :flame: :flame2:

I am sorry I have not heard of the God gene concept, but it sounds pretty stupid, but it is probably conceived through some people's "different" handling of Divine Knowledge that I do not agree with.

But I can say that your question "where in the hell is God when you need him?" is a great logical question that I feel everyone that has even considered believing in a higher being should consider. Excuse me if I rephrase your quote wrong but for me when I ask that question it looks more like, "Why if there is an all knowing good Being that is in control do terrible things still happen?". To me this is a question I have wrestled with many times in my life, like when my mom was going in to have surgery to remove some cancerous parts of her body, or when I was lying in the ER at the Olympic Trials watching my dreams of competing for this great country be flushed down the drain while doctors talked about the possibilities of having to cut the staph infection out of my foot (aka amputate). These times I had to ponder your same question, "why?", "do I deserve this?", "do they deserve this?"? Any many familiar questions just like yours I have many times said "where are you God", "are you even there?" And my only consolation in these times is (apart from Romans 8:28) the thought that I am asking the question wrong. Instead of asking "Why do these terrible things still happen? Where are you God?" I now ask myself "How in the world could you (God) know what I thought yesterday, what I did last week, what I said years ago, what I will do tomorrow, how could you know all these things about me and not destroy me right now? How could you not come down and stop these mockeries of true life that are my short comings?" That to me is a better question because it puts me below God, it humbles me, it reminds me that I am not perfect, have not been perfect and will not be perfect but I am totally dependent on God for everything, even for peace in hard times. The other question "where are you, how could bad things happen if you exist?" These questions put man's situations above God Himself, as if the creator had to answer to the created. But I just wanted to let you know that I have wrestled with the same questions you have, I know what you mean totally. I know you might have asked this question as a joke, but I think it deserves more than just a glance.

[WyrreJ]

What a massive non-answer. You are imperfect so you don't deserve an answer. Well, if I am imperfect whose fault is that? Supposed to be God's fault - if he gets the credit for creation, he gets the blame too. Any creed that teaches do as I say, not as I do, is bogus.

[LittleBeast]

Any creed that teaches do as I say, not as I do, is bogus.

That is why in the Christian Faith we do believe that God came to earth in the form of His Son Jesus Christ and did show us exactly how to live by living a perfect life.

Remeber I am not trying to persuade you in anyway just trying to give my own point of view.

[LittleBeast]

Well, if I am imperfect whose fault is that? Supposed to be God's fault - if he gets the credit for creation, he gets the blame too.

I believe God created us just as we are because it is the best way for He Himself to be glorified, because we all will glorify Him one day depending on our respounce to His free gift of forgiveness for us, some will bow to their knees in judgement glorifying God's perfect justice, and some will bow to their knees in forgiveness glorifying God's perfect free gift of forgiveness.

In my opinion if we were perfect robots that had no choice but to do good and accept God that would not glorify God at all, we would be forced to submit and there would be no choice, no glorification, just a well oiled machine doing it's preprogramed thing. But if we have a choice to reject Him and yet still desire to know Him, this glorifies Him, and if we have a choice to known Him yet choose not to His judgement still glorifies Him.

Once again this is just my point of view I do not want to upset anyone, or try to tell someone they are wrong at all, just giving my point of view.

[LittleBeast]

The very definition of faith is belief without proof.

Faith - noun A belief in the value, truth, or trustworthiness of someone or something; belief and trust in God, the Scriptures, or other religious writings; a system of religious beliefs.
Belief - noun Something that is trusted or believed.
Believe - verb To accept as true or real; to hold onto religious beliefs.
(Webster's Dictionary New Revised and Expanded Edition)
I would never ever believe or have faith in something without proof. I did not come to the conclusion that the original Hebrew and Greek words of the Bible were indeed inspired by the Creator Himself lightly. I do not have a blind faith or a faith "just because that is what my parents believed." I intentionally took religion classes at Rice University with atheist teachers because I wanted to know for sure, I wanted my faith to be challenged, I wanted to have huge questions, because if there really is a God out there that has been making Himself known to His creation in many ways He would be big enough to answer these questions, I wanted to have "A belief in the value, truth, or trustworthiness of someone or something". I wanted to have a real faith, real beliefs as they are defined. Not blind faith as you describe that is simply stupid to run around as a zombie or sponge soaking up the latest new thing. So no I do not have the faith you describe at all.


I think you completely missed the point. The reason he knows that no one knows the "truth" is because you can not know something that is improvable. So you can have faith, you can believe, but you can not know. You might even be right in your faith, but you can't prove it so you can't know you are right.

Just because you or someone else views something as "improvable" does not mean that it is indeed the case. We all have varying degrees of approval for many things we hear about or see or experience as real, do we not?

So I see why you assume I missed the point and as I am reading back over what I said I myself see my folly there, because it is a complex issue and I did not do a good job of explaining myself I am sorry, but I do see your point.

My point is just because YOU have labeled something as "improvable for yourself" does not mean that it is indeed improvable unless you yourself can see the entire issue and proclaim it as unknowable by all mankind. But conversely it also means that by me saying that it is provable and has been proven to me does not mean or infer that it is provable to you or anyone else, but solely means that it is proven to me and I have faith and belief not blindly, but I do believe and trust as if it were true because it has been proven to me. Just because someone else labels my faith unknowable does not discount my faith to whatever they think, unless they have perfect knowledge of the subject and indeed then they themselves could declare it as unknowable or not.

My faith has been proven to me, and this was a very long hard fought battle believe me. I do not believe blindly, I choose to believe the Bible because it is a reliable collection of historical documents written down by eye witnesses during the lifetime of other eye witnesses, and they report supernatural events that took place in fulfillment of specific prophecies claiming that their writings are divine rather than human in origin. I do see how it seemed like I didn't know what you two meant I am sorry for the confusion guys. I do respect your points of view, but they just seem a little specific and exclusive to declare to every human that has ever lived that they cannot know something for sure, but they have to accept your view that you can never know for sure. I mean you are basically telling me I am wrong and your view is the only obvious one. I am not trying to say the same thing back to you, I do understand what you are trying to say, but in order to say that you would have to prove that it is not knowable or my personal preference is "I don't know what is provable/true/trustworthy in your life, but God has proven over and over again that He is the only faithful One in my life and I cannot convince you of this, but I know for sure for me." Once again guys I respect you and your views please respect mine, I am not saying that you have not, just reminding you that I write all these things innocently just trying to give my point of view not trying to persuade you or tell you that you are wring, but to just give my perspective. Your VX brother, Ryan

[LittleBeast]

Thank you,
I now feel I have born again in Jesus.
I renounce my evil,sinful ways and have found myself transformed in the lord.
I am now not only a born again christian, but a republican as well.
you have all convinced me of my evil, sinful, liberal ways and I am so ashamed of the way I have been talking in this forum.
God has shown me the light, and I will spend the rest of the afternoon deleting all the pornography off my computer, Flushing all my high grade marujuana and cocaine down the toilet.
I vow never to fornicate again until marriage, and probably even after as well.
I vow to vote for any candidate who is a true christian, no matter how stupid he may be.
I will join a church, one headed by a true man of god such as Jimmy Swaggert,or Jim Baker,or Ted Haggert or Jim Jones,because I need guidance by someone who knows the word of god and the meaning of life much better than say...Monty Python.
Thank you for your divine inspiration...

God bless!!

I really don't know what to say man. I tried not to seem like I was preaching or telling you that you were wrong or anything like I think you implied I was saying. I honestly was just trying to give you my perspective, because I have been reading your perspective trying to be respectful of you and your views, I just expected the same treatment back. I do not appreciate your mockery of my beliefs at all. Sorry you felt like I was worthy of this treatment. If I did or said anything wrong or upset you please let me know I was not trying to do so.

[VX crazy]

I think that was very well said Ryan!

[IndianaVX]

ive got to agree with vx crazy, and i agree with what ryan has been saying too, i just cant keep up

[LittleBeast]

..........I cant wait for real proof of ET life !!

Boy Oh Boy , will that ever screw with the arrogant dogma of most 'organized' religions.


I think one phrase sums it up... and it covers the scourge of the modern day blame game , hypocrisy and deceit.

Simply said so long ago...


DO UNTO OTHERS........


jo

I agree although I have always seen Christianity (the belief in Christ as LORD and Savior that I hold to) as a relationship not a religion at all, and I do not see anything in Scripture that denies or would be in contradiction with life on other planets, just because ET is not mentioned in the Bible certainly doesn't mean that he is not out there. But as to your comment I agree that ET's existence will humble us ("screw with the arrogant") which might be the best thing in the world (or universe) for mankind (USA especially) as a whole. Some religions may have a problem with it, but as many of you have already stated, it probably wouldn't change to much as many other things haven't changed to much in "religion". Just my perspective.

[VXD959]

Politics and Religion...explosive mix. I have no comments or position...since this is Vehicross site. I suggest dropping the issue, perhaps the whole thread.

Let's start a new one: Who thinks the Mona Lisa is pretty?

[IndianaVX]

i too am just posting my belief, opinion, and not trying to offend, or preach.

some may ask where God is in all this, or bad things happening to good people, etc. we all acnowlege that everyone has free will. and it says that in the bible also. yes, sometimes awful things happen, to one, or hundreds....
i tend to believe that no matter what could possibly be going on in my life, that God is always near, and working all things out for my good. it may not seem like it at the time i might be going thru things, but when i look back on things, I can see where he was guiding me all the way. (which, like ryan, the trials in my life have brought me my faith)
and yes, it is easy for some to say, well its nice that things "worked out"...........
NOW, i say this, not looking for sympathy, pity, etc, but some of the trials i have been thru, are not things that just "work out"
but in those times, i needed something.......or someone.
everyone knows quotes from the bible like, " i will give you rest" or "be still, and know that i am God" words to cling to, so i took him up on it. and he has made good on the promises he made. so i believe God is where you want him to be, if you want him to be involved in your situation, he will be there.
i am terrible at typing my thoughts, and i hope i dont come off as preaching either, i too am just telling you MY belief.

david

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

[QUOTE=LittleBeast]I really don't know what to say man. I tried not to seem like I was preaching or telling you that you were wrong or anything like I think you implied I was saying. I honestly was just trying to give you my perspective, because I have been reading your perspective trying to be respectful of you and your views, I just expected the same treatment back. I do not appreciate your mockery of my beliefs at all. Sorry you felt like I was worthy of this treatment. If I did or said anything wrong or upset you please let me know I was not trying to do so.[/QUOTE

I am sorry,
but when someone comes at me with this stuff I do get a little defensive.I think it is a crock.If you were born in baghdad your response would be more like this.

I believe Allah created us just as we are because it is the best way for He Himself to be glorified, because we all will glorify Him one day depending on our fatwa to mohammed's free gift of martrdom for us, some will bow to their knees in judgement glorifying Allah's perfect justice, and some will bow to their knees in forgiveness glorifying mohammed
perfect free gift of martyrdom.Death to America!

..And it still sounds like equally like brainwashed psychobabble.

My secular humanistic thoughts on god....

As a baby in a crib, we look up at our beautiful parents smiling down on us. They take care of our every need. Their benevolent eyes watching our every twitch.We don't understand why or how, but a constant stream of love and service flows from them, keeping us safe from harm, warm and secure..

I think we never really get over wanting that. The notion that some benevolent force is holding our hand and watching over us is practically programmed from infancy.

...And just as I could swear I heard Santa's reindeer every time our house settled on Christmas eve. I would bet his little elves would manufacture me an Atari game console in their little toy shop at the north pole because I had been a good boy (well not really).

Well their is No Santa, no Easter bunny, no Tooth Fairy and all those other little childhood figments. There is just commerce,tradition,and dad shelling out a few bucks...

And just like Christians feel that Jesus is magic, and can feel his holy presence, I felt like Santa was real every time I heard the roof creek.

[cyronman]

I pray to Joe Pesci

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

[Ldub]

I pray to Joe Pesci

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

Thanks...I hadn't seen any "George" in quite some time, I'd almost forgotten how funny that man is. :biggringr

[JoFotoz]

.

To paraphrase (near quote) Sen Craig.


"I put my hand down to pick up a piece of 'paper'.."

WOW!!...Lets take a poll!!


How many here would pick up a piece of 'paper' of a public toilet floor ???



:confused:


jo



.

[WyrreJ]

Faith - noun A belief in the value, truth, or trustworthiness of someone or something; belief and trust in God, the Scriptures, or other religious writings; a system of religious beliefs.
Belief - noun Something that is trusted or believed.
Believe - verb To accept as true or real; to hold onto religious beliefs.
(Webster's Dictionary New Revised and Expanded Edition)
Are you trying to quote the dictionary to disprove my assertion that faith means belief in the unprovable?
I sure hope not because I can quote the complete Merriam-Webster definition if need be.

By the way any dictionary that is simply "Webster's" and not "Merriam-Webster" is inauthentic and not to be trusted, the real webster company made an error and only trademarked the full name - "Merriam Webster." So every charlatan and his brother with a knock-off dictionary calls it "Webster's" because there is no trademark preventing them from doing so and thus no reason at all do any sort of quality control. The only legitimate "Webster's" dictionaries are the ones with the full "Merriam-Webster" in the title.


Just because you or someone else views something as "improvable" does not mean that it is indeed the case. We all have varying degrees of approval for many things we hear about or see or experience as real, do we not?
What is 'approval' supposed to mean? Proof is a very simple concept, a test for which the results are falsifiable. If a test can not possibly disprove something, then it is not falsifiable. For example - the police find finger prints on a gun, they also have a suspect in custody. A test that compares the suspect's prints with the prints on the gun is falsifiable, if they match then they are his prints, if they do not match they are not his prints.

There is no test that could possibly disprove the existence of God. Just as there is no test that could possibly disprove the existence of Vishnu and Kali, Ahura Mazda, Shangdi, Chukwu, Mawu-Lisa, Tarvos Trigaranus or Amaterasu to name just a few.

A test without the possibility of failure is no test at all.


My faith has been proven to me,Do not confuse being convinced with proof.

Perhaps you chose not to adhere to a strong formal definition of proof. That's your prerogative. But to do so is extremely solipsistic.


In my opinion if we were perfect robots that had no choice but to do good and accept God that would not glorify God at allTotal cop out. He makes us imperfect so that we can choose to strive for perfection but meanwhile we've got good questions that we don't deserve the answer to through no fault of our own? That's just another variation on do as I say, not as I do.

My favorite story from sunday school was the (almost) sacrifice of Isaac by his father Abraham. Except the version taught in sunday school is wrong. That version says God was testing Abraham's faith, to see if it was strong enough that he would murder his own son because God told him to. The version that I think is correct is that Abraham was testing God. No just God would actually desire that a man sacrifice his own child. If God had let Abraham kill Isaac, then that would have been proof that God did not deserve Abraham's faith.

It worked out pretty good for Abraham, but thousands of people across the rest of the world suffers the fate of a murdered Isaac on a daily basis.

[WyrreJ]

But as to your comment I agree that ET's existence will humble us ("screw with the arrogant") which might be the best thing in the world (or universe) for mankind (USA especially) as a whole.
If ET shows up, he's going to be enemy #1 whether he wants to or not.

It will probably enough to get most of the world to stop fighting with itself and unite against a common enemy. But it will also probably mean the descent of the entire world into a global military-fascist society the likes of which we have not seen before.

Especially if he looks funny - just look how easy it is to demonize regular humans, if ET is some ugly looking freak the power-grabbers will be calling him Lucifer on talk-radio within days.

The only chance the planet has of surviving a contact with ET is if he looks like an angel. A glowing, golden-skinned, flying, feather-winged angel. Even that may not be enough, the really smart power-grabbers will just spin ET as Lucifier before the fall.

[WyrreJ]

How many here would pick up a piece of 'paper' of a public toilet floor???Haven't you seen "Blades of Glory" with Will Ferrell?

[WyrreJ]

.I think it is a crock.If you were born in baghdad your response would be more like this.

I believe Allah created us just as we are because it is the best way for He Himself to be glorified, because we all will glorify Him one day depending on our fatwa to mohammed's free gift of martrdom for us, some will bow to their knees in judgement glorifying Allah's perfect justice, and some will bow to their knees in forgiveness glorifying mohammed

Dude, harsh. Before we invaded, Iraq was the most secular state in the middle east (and FWIW had the highest literacy rate, I think over 90%). Marytrydom and all that ain't what its all about for more than 99% of muslims. If Ryan were advocating for holy snipers outside of abortion clinics, then the comparison might be apt. But, at least in this thread, he seems like the kind of guy who would really take the "what would Jesus do?" approach to things, not the "who would Jesus shoot?" approach.

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

Dude, harsh. Before we invaded, Iraq was the most secular state in the middle east (and FWIW had the highest literacy rate, I think over 90%). Marytrydom and all that ain't what its all about for more than 99% of muslims. If Ryan were advocating for holy snipers outside of abortion clinics, then the comparison might be apt. But, at least in this thread, he seems like the kind of guy who would really take the "what would Jesus do?" approach to things, not the "who would Jesus shoot?" approach.

All I did was take little beast's own dogma and replaced a few words with radical muslim keywords, Instead of Jesus-mohammed, In stead of God-Allah and so on.

I just think too much destruction, death and bitterness have resulted from peoples unquestioning belief in organized religion. The Crusades,September 11th,Catholic sex scandals...and the list goes on.

Even Mother Theresa it was recently discovered had major doubts about the existence of god!

More people have been harmed by religion than have been helped by it.
It just seems like the easy answer...
It is the will of god...
it is what god wants...
god helps those who help themselves...
So I am gonna go help myself to some frosted flakes, maybe I can get god to pour the milk for me....

[Scott Harness]

I am sorry I have not heard of the God gene concept, but it sounds pretty stupid, but it is probably conceived through some people's "different" handling of Divine Knowledge that I do not agree with.

But I can say that your question "where in the hell is God when you need him?" is a great logical question that I feel everyone that has even considered believing in a higher being should consider. Excuse me if I rephrase your quote wrong but for me when I ask that question it looks more like, "Why if there is an all knowing good Being that is in control do terrible things still happen?". To me this is a question I have wrestled with many times in my life, like when my mom was going in to have surgery to remove some cancerous parts of her body, or when I was lying in the ER at the Olympic Trials watching my dreams of competing for this great country be flushed down the drain while doctors talked about the possibilities of having to cut the staph infection out of my foot (aka amputate). These times I had to ponder your same question, "why?", "do I deserve this?", "do they deserve this?"? Any many familiar questions just like yours I have many times said "where are you God", "are you even there?" And my only consolation in these times is (apart from Romans 8:28) the thought that I am asking the question wrong. Instead of asking "Why do these terrible things still happen? Where are you God?" I now ask myself "How in the world could you (God) know what I thought yesterday, what I did last week, what I said years ago, what I will do tomorrow, how could you know all these things about me and not destroy me right now? How could you not come down and stop these mockeries of true life that are my short comings?" That to me is a better question because it puts me below God, it humbles me, it reminds me that I am not perfect, have not been perfect and will not be perfect but I am totally dependent on God for everything, even for peace in hard times. The other question "where are you, how could bad things happen if you exist?" These questions put man's situations above God Himself, as if the creator had to answer to the created. But I just wanted to let you know that I have wrestled with the same questions you have, I know what you mean totally. I know you might have asked this question as a joke, but I think it deserves more than just a glance.Hi Ryan, the God gene theory is that true believers have a certain gene or that their brain is wired differently than that of non-believers.

[dutchie]

A lot of people think that god (in any form you believe ) is there to do people personal favors, pretty narrow minded because what did you do to deserve his attention? Nowhere in any religion is stated that god takes care of us individually or even of humanity as a whole. We decide our own lives, we are no puppets on strings. God (if you believe in that concept)gave us live and will hopefully embrace us when when we leave.... The concept of god is hard to explain to those who not believe or not want to believe..but simply said it's a feeling that there is more than just us, it's a feeling that we are here for a reason, it's something which gives us hope, cause by believing we never really have to say goodbye to those dear to us and that counts for a lot.
Unfortunately there are too many individuals who use the concept of religion for their own means, whether it's to wage wars or to discriminate a fellow human being.
Religion is quiet beautiful, it gave us lots of culture in the form of churches and temples and not to forget music, it gives us a guide of how to live, love and die and it gives us hope and teaches us that we are just human beings no gods.
People like islam extremist, child abusing priests, bible throwing churchgoers , anti-abortion(on religious reasons)supporters, a certain American president(God bless America is sentence which is used in vain, what did the US do to deserve god's blessing?), door ringing Jehova's, etc etc ruin and dirty this beautiful concept.

Be a wise person and leave religion what it is, and if you feel intimidated or irritated by someone who announces his/belief , laugh it away,because the person who needs bible phrases to strengthen himself during a discussion is a religion polluter and is as far or further removed of the original concept as you are.

[nfpgasmask]

You are right Dutchie, technically, there is nothing "wrong" with religion. The teachings of most religions are meant to foster kindness, acceptance, forgiveness, love, and etc.

The problem, which you aptly put, is that humans have become "religious polluters". People take the teachings of their respective religions and twist them and manipulate them for their own purposes, and take them much too literally, getting away from everything these lessons were meant to be.

And this is the reason why people like me, and obviously people like Wasabi, understand that religion is one of the top driving forces behind the opposite of kindness, acceptance, forgiveness, love and etc. Religion only serves to foster hate, extremism, non-acceptance and inevitably war, death and destruction. This is the way it has been since the start of recorded history. So why then do sooooo many people, still adhere to something that is so obviously the cause of such worldwide chaos?

Bart


A lot of people think that god (in any form you believe ) is there to do people personal favors, pretty narrow minded because what did you do to deserve his attention? Nowhere in any religion is stated that god takes care of us individually or even of humanity as a whole. We decide our own lives, we are no puppets on strings. God (if you believe in that concept)gave us live and will hopefully embrace us when when we leave.... The concept of god is hard to explain to those who not believe or not want to believe..but simply said it's a feeling that there is more than just us, it's a feeling that we are here for a reason, it's something which gives us hope, cause by believing we never really have to say goodbye to those dear to us and that counts for a lot.
Unfortunately there are too many individuals who use the concept of religion for their own means, whether it's to wage wars or to discriminate a fellow human being.
Religion is quiet beautiful, it gave us lots of culture in the form of churches and temples and not to forget music, it gives us a guide of how to live, love and die and it gives us hope and teaches us that we are just human beings no gods.
People like islam extremist, child abusing priests, bible throwing churchgoers , anti-abortion(on religious reasons)supporters, a certain American president(God bless America is sentence which is used in vain, what did the US do to deserve god's blessing?), door ringing Jehova's, etc etc ruin and dirty this beautiful concept.

Be a wise person and leave religion what it is, and if you feel intimidated or irritated by someone who announces his/belief , laugh it away,because the person who needs bible phrases to strengthen himself during a discussion is a religion polluter and is as far or further removed of the original concept as you are.

[nater]

Man, I don't even know where to begin. How about this:

-Don't confuse faith and religion. Faith cannot be proven, hence the name.

-The concepts of Total Depravity and Free Will fall into the discussion of why bad things happend to good people, etc.

-Not all faithful people are Republicans. Not all religious people are faithful.

-Don't blame faith for the problems of Religious Fanaticism (from any group).

-Not all Christians are Republicans.

-Claire was hotter when she weighed a little more. Too skinny now.

-I don't think the Mona Lisa is pretty.

Nate

[WyrreJ]

All I did was take little beast's own dogma and replaced a few words with radical muslim keywords, Instead of Jesus-mohammed, In stead of God-Allah and so on..

That's my point, he's not a radical. The radical christians are the ones killing, or at least calling for the killing of, doctors who perform abortions and putting the beat down on gays, etc. Ryan does not strike me as the kind of person who would do that.

[LittleBeast]

If ET shows up, he's going to be enemy #1 whether he wants to or not.

It will probably enough to get most of the world to stop fighting with itself and unite against a common enemy. But it will also probably mean the descent of the entire world into a global military-fascist society the likes of which we have not seen before.

Especially if he looks funny - just look how easy it is to demonize regular humans, if ET is some ugly looking freak the power-grabbers will be calling him Lucifer on talk-radio within days.

The only chance the planet has of surviving a contact with ET is if he looks like an angel. A glowing, golden-skinned, flying, feather-winged angel. Even that may not be enough, the really smart power-grabbers will just spin ET as Lucifier before the fall.

Yeah I could see that happening, society as a whole seems to be so scared of what it doesn't understand and typically has an unwillingness to try to see others perspectives that some would rather pull the trigger or detonate a bomb than to actually put forth some effort to try and understand each other. Poor Et he is so screwed. Maybe we should ask the presidential nominees what they would do if ET did show up? That could be the new 3rd party Rep, Dem, and ETlovers..... or maybe not at all.....

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

That's my point, he's not a radical. The radical christians are the ones killing, or at least calling for the killing of, doctors who perform abortions and putting the beat down on gays, etc. Ryan does not strike me as the kind of person who would do that.
I stand corrected and that was not aimed at ryan directly, but those of who feel that their belief in the unknowable trumps another person's beliefs in the unknowable.I may have taken it to the extreme, but I hope you get my point..

[don moore]

I have a support our troops sticker on my car ..just like 3/4 of the people I know..
Im making a funny one next

"BRING OUR TROOPS HOME then NUKE IRAQ"

Im bad... :p

Is this thread about gay republicans????


there I added my 2 cents

[ojmagg]

I once got busy in a Burger King bathroom...

[ZEUS]

I once ate Burger King in a busy bathroom...

[CrnCnn]

I went to the bathroom once after eating at a busy burger king

[Ldub]

Man, I don't even know where to begin. How about this:

-Don't confuse faith and religion. Faith cannot be proven, hence the name.

-The concepts of Total Depravity and Free Will fall into the discussion of why bad things happend to good people, etc.

-Not all faithful people are Republicans. Not all religious people are faithful.

-Don't blame faith for the problems of Religious Fanaticism (from any group).

-Not all Christians are Republicans.

-Claire was hotter when she weighed a little more. Too skinny now.

-I don't think the Mona Lisa is pretty.

Nate

But whaddya use on your cladding ?

[ZEUS]

Man, I don't even know where to begin. How about this:

-Don't confuse faith and religion. Faith cannot be proven, hence the name.

-The concepts of Total Depravity and Free Will fall into the discussion of why bad things happend to good people, etc.

-Not all faithful people are Republicans. Not all religious people are faithful.

-Don't blame faith for the problems of Religious Fanaticism (from any group).

-Not all Christians are Republicans.

-Claire was hotter when she weighed a little more. Too skinny now.

-I don't think the Mona Lisa is pretty.

Nate

And what kind of BK experience do you have?

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

And what kind of BK experience do you have?
I find the king a little disturbing.

[nater]

That reminds me, I need to pick up SNEAK KING for Xbox.

No BK experience.

No cladding. (Trooper).

Nate

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

That reminds me, I need to pick up SNEAK KING for Xbox.

No BK experience.

No cladding. (Trooper).

Nate
I played "big bumpin" on the 360 and it was like the worst game ever, but I think it came free with a side of fries...

[ZEUS]

I played "big bumpin" on the 360 and it was like the worst game ever, but I think it came free with a side of fries...
:laughing:

[Ldub]

I played "big bumpin" on the 360 and it was like the worst game ever, but I think it came free with a side of fries...


Had the same experience, big bumpin' & pocket bike racer both pretty awful...about what I expected for the price. :rolleyes:

[LittleBeast]

Had the same experience, big bumpin' & pocket bike racer both pretty awful...about what I expected for the price. :rolleyes:

Since we are way off the original topic now and onto video games, has anyone been playing WarHawk on PS3? I am loving it right now! At $40 for a download I think it is a heck of a deal.

[don moore]

I think console games suck....LOL :p

PC games are better... :)

I Like the BK King....I bet he looks like hitler under his mask :mad:

I saw a pink mustang today <-----thats wrong to paint a mustang PINK :eek:

I cant wait to get a VX. :) .so I can replace everything on it in a year as it breaks :(

Chin Up

[Dare2Dream]

You are right Dutchie, technically, there is nothing "wrong" with religion. The teachings of most religions are meant to foster kindness, acceptance, forgiveness, love, and etc.

The problem, which you aptly put, is that humans have become "religious polluters". People take the teachings of their respective religions and twist them and manipulate them for their own purposes, and take them much too literally, getting away from everything these lessons were meant to be.

And this is the reason why people like me, and obviously people like Wasabi, understand that religion is one of the top driving forces behind the opposite of kindness, acceptance, forgiveness, love and etc. Religion only serves to foster hate, extremism, non-acceptance and inevitably war, death and destruction. This is the way it has been since the start of recorded history. So why then do sooooo many people, still adhere to something that is so obviously the cause of such worldwide chaos?

Bart
One cannot judge religion by the worst of it's adherents who follow a perverted and twisted form of faith, but rather judge a person's actions by the ideals of the faith they adhere to. Nut jobs like those from al-Qaeda represent Islam as much as Hitler or Timmothy Mcvey may represent Christianity. But the point is that you cannot look at the worst and judge all religion by it. People like Martin Luther King and Malcolm X, who were motivated by religion, made incredible achievements, the fruits of which we still enjoy even today. So while religion can be hijacked by extremists, the vast majority of Muslims, Jews, Chrisitians and people of other faiths have made great achievements while drawing inspiration from their faith.

Similarly, remember that hundreds of millions who died in the past century died because of wars fought over secular idealogies such as nationalism (WWI), fascism (WWII), Communism, Imperialism, and Colonialism, all of which have nothing to do with religion. So looking only at religious extremism while ignoring everything else is unfair.

[Ldub]

I think console games suck....LOL :p

PC games are better... :)

I Like the BK King....I bet he looks like hitler under his mask :mad:

I saw a pink mustang today <-----thats wrong to paint a mustang PINK :eek:

I cant wait to get a VX. :) .so I can replace everything on it in a year as it breaks :(

Chin Up


http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/1_1cap_ron.gif

[Chopper]

BK Driveby is evergreen------------on a more serious note...if I get to heaven, and find out, God has been micromanaging all this time, listening to your dumb prayers for the next goal, the lottery strike, or a new Ducati (ok that one is mine) I'll be pissed. Isn't balancing all the universes enough?? And to what low wage parallel universe, did it outsource the engineering on these knees, back and teeth? Shoddy design work. Everyone seems to have problems with one or all of these. Inquiring minds want to know.

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

I think console games suck....LOL :p

Play "Gears of War" for the xbox 360 on a 50''+ Lcd in Hi Def and I think you might change your mind...