2008 Baja 1000

[MoonRaker]

I started a thread about this before the forum went down and cant find it so I guess ill start another. So far ive landed 2 sponsors and 2 more possible, one being the PVA and another being Hanger prostetics. Im working on what I need to get ready for the haul. My co driver is Cam Worth, gt champ and daytona 24 winner in class RX-7. I just put new rubber all around and I have 4 spares since my old tires wernt in anyway needing replacment, nitto 285s are the tire of my choice, anyone have 4 stock 18 inch rims. The class I think im in is with the jeeps, correct me if im wrong. Any recommendations on suspension, I already plan atleast a 3 inch lift and im in the market for fully adjustible suspension thats controled from within the truck. Im going to machine all the ruber spacers out of delron myself. Custome bumpers are planned also. I also need to figure out how to shield the AC vents from the soot since Cams over 50 and im alittle on the crippled side so confort wont be spared. Im taking an air compressor to blow soot out of the radiator and airfilter if needed. Is a roll cage a must or just a safty thing? Lets here it guys and gals.

[cyronman]

Moonraker,

a guy I work with goes to the Bajas and invited me to the one earlier this year. I couldn't make it but would like to get to this one.
It would be cool to meet up and check out your rig once it's finished.
Keep me updated on your progress.

As for the rims...
not sure if you're asking for a set for sale or what, but I have one.
Check the Tires/Wheels threads, it should be the most recent.
I'm in San Diego, btw.

Good Luck

[bigkoala1]

you might check with mike at lokey trucks. he has run the baja a few times. www.lokeytrucks.com

[MoonRaker]

I want to get the impute here were there are more enthusiasts and more spacific involvment.

[Triathlete]

I am sure if you go to the website for the 1000 you should be able to fond a listing of all the classes and the vehicle specifications for each. They are pretty specific about what can be altered on the vehicle and what safety equipment is needed (mandatory). Adjustable suspentions may put you in another class all together. Might want to check before you start sinking your $ into stuff that is not allowed/needed for the class you plan on running.
Might want to start HERE (http://www.score-international.com/)

[Chopper]

This is no longer a "run what you brung" type of deal,,,,you better check into the specs, and not post questions about it here. No one here races their VX. Baja is no joke. Good luck

[MoonRaker]

Sofare its stock, im looking into what mods move the truck up in class so I can avoid that. I now BAJAs no joke, im looking for what people think I should do for reliability issues. Im doing a complete suspension recondition and go through and need to now wether to lift or not, I mailed tech for answers, Ill post what I find. Im also thinking of routing the airfilter inside the truck and putting a filter on the AC intake on the outer part since I plan on running it throughout the daytime till the temps drop at night. Should I look into a bigger radiator, Since my rebuild im running 20 or so degrees cooler temps.

[MoonRaker]

I tracked another thread down that had me curios and posted this alredy about the TOD disable in another thread but I find it relivent to desert conditions. I discconected mine and taken it out on the drift pad at Morrosso, its fun but easy to spin on the street and low traction, kinda feels like ice on the drift pad(wet tar covered asfault). Im putting a switch on the shifter (easy acsess on the fly) and going to try it in the sugersand to see what happens. Im lookind to slide the back out in 2wd then kick the TOD back on comming out of the turns, if I loose the float and re-engaging it when I need help getting back ontop of the sand and when starting. I do it with the E brake and have entered turns as fast as 60 in the sand but have problems with holding my speed ( E brake) Im pretty sure it will do well in RWD once you have your momentum sustained. I dont like the way it trys to pull you around above 35 or 40 MPH, specialy in sand rutts. In the snow or somthing with less traction id run with the TOD on always. Ow, did you now your VX tops out at 75 in the sand, im very impressed by that. Ive logged over 3000 miles on my truck off road in the refuge I live next to so Im pretty good in the sand.

[Chopper]

I just reread my post from last nite, and realized it sounded rather dismissive...and I should apologize. What I was getting at is this...Baja is a monster! Sure, if you want the experience of driving down the course, there are basically stock beetle bugs that putt-putt through the entire 1000 miles, with some careful driving...and a bit of luck, a VX could complete the run. To take a street vehicle and prepare it to RACE Baja, requires a re-engineering of the ENTIRE vehicle. Realize also, that by mile 500, your vehicle is a total loss (for all practical purposes) and will require a total rebuild. WRXs and EVOs are "rally inspired" vehicles not WRC cars(as all the little rich kids around here, seem to quickly and expensively learn) The VX is a street vehicle, with pretty good soft road abilities...not an endurance racer. Baja eats purpose built vehicles. I don't want to piss on your dream, just don't want you to think a shock swap and driving in sugar sand in any way, prepares you for the relentless beating that is Baja. (yeah, we go almost every year)

[MoonRaker]

The VX is tough enough for BAJA, im pretty sure of it. Just the way its gona get done is were to start with the planning. I was watching the 7000 series the other night and thats not the class im looking to try ( unless I ever have the funds) 130 flatout isnt a speed im trying to hold, 45 to 55 MPH is a safer bet for a VX. Hard driving in sugersand tends to be a very good test on a trucks drivetrain and engine. Ive riden my old 660 raptor in Nevada deserts, Glamis in Cali, and the mountains of PA and CO so I have a pretty good gist on all terrain. Ive run the VX flat out in the mud and sugersand in FL, and in the PA and MD woods. I now alot of people run Jeeps and hummers and I put the VX way up infront of those rides. Hell im a official jeep, hummer H3 and H2 recovery vehical, LOL. I now its going to take alot of preperation though. Im driving to Cali this year so ill get more of an idea what to expect. Im already 10 people deep in a crew so finalizing what the sponsors need to dish out will be decided after my trip. Ive also donated my new Rapyor 700 to my good friend Nick Folly for baja whose a one legged wounder and the best guy ive ever seen tame any Quad. My plan is to do a total tear down of the drivetrain and atleast reseal everything 5000 miles prior the 1000 to catch any gremlins beforehand, check the tranny, TOD system, transfer case, rear rite after I drive it back from Cali.
Main things that im worried about is bolders, silt, and the bolders hidding in the silt beds. Other then that its all common sense, dont overdrive the truck, Keep your average RPMs under 4,000, dont stick your head out the window before you clock a cactus and ill finish. Ive just broken in my new motor and im totaly content on how strong it is. Ow, not to argue a point but what comes from the factory with piggyback KYBs and 4 low for light offroading? Just look at the size of your front A arms and traling arms dont even come stock on Jeeps or hummers H2s or H3s. Ive gone through all my beating on my first alignment at 62,000 miles. Ok, to show im not full of **** ill show you a few of my accomplishments throughtout my last 3 years. I helped build this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2ung98buGc

and I developed this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foUYemyjpzM

Wich we installed in a parking lot in less then 4 hours. It was to prove it could be done when all others said it couldnt be done in a day.

[don moore]

You are going to put a VXehiCROSS.INFO sticker on it ??

[MoonRaker]

If somone or somthing can help me out ill put a sticker on my VX.

[JoFotoz]

.
San Diego based...ready to get involved.


Multiple people/vehicles ready to help.

Not experts,but keen.

Let me know.

jo

[Triathlete]

And we will of course we'll be expecting a video!;Dy;:yesy::thumbup:

[MoonRaker]

.
San Diego based...ready to get involved.


Multiple people/vehicles ready to help.

Not experts,but keen.

Let me know.

jo
Hell yeh, thats the main thing, help if somthing goes wrong, that way its never needed, kinda like taking your spare tire out a day before you have a flat.

[MrCrowley]

Wohoo! Im glad to hear someone is going to race a VX finally! I have had a lot of "fun" in mine, never competitively. She is babied now, not driven much, and used for light trailer duty (some fun and snow mixed in there too).

If I competed, this is what I would do.

1. *** Check you target category before doing anything.***

2. Read the story about the Geolandar VX that attempted the Paris-Dakar Rally. If I remember correctly, he ran strong in the T-1 class, he DNF'd because of his front diff exploding, and had very little sponsor support. I think he tried to make a go of 2WD, but it was useless. He even knew the day before he was having front diff problems, the sponsor denied his front diff swap request, and then a rough stage came the next day. Also, dont doubt its toughness. Troopers won their class in the Dakar in 1992, and Many Australian gigs. You are driving those parts plus TOD and 3.5 liter essentially. Somewhere online is a breakdown of all Isuzus wins. Ill try to find this stuff.

3. Maybe- maybe consider the disconnect for reasons stated above only 2WD sand rails are any good at 2WD, but would HIGHLY RECOMMEND you install the high lock feature. In situations like sand the TOD may engage and disengage so much- YOU WILL DNF. I almost guarantee it will happen. DO NOT let it bang in and out of TOD engagement. Disconnect wont help as much because driving the way you'll be driving, you would be better letting the truck do the front rear bias which has a good program for this (also adjusting tire pressure to optimize) while you concentrate on pointing the nose where you want it- TOD is proven to be adequate in "spirited" driving. The other option is if you have the time, the auto AND manually selectable F/R bias similar to the Subaru STI setup. I would also recommend using the "power" button.:p

4. Make sure you install axle limiting straps. Dont want a coil spring coming loose 5 feet in the air. Plus, you can adjust your travel to compensate for terrain. Do this even if its just to keep the axle from over-extending and topping out your shocks which may cause premature failure. May someone could sponsor and provide the awesome stock KYB's? Maybe more travel would be better, though.

5. Maybe some ball joint flip people can chime in, but I think this is another must-do activity for you. Also consider the "front diff lowering" kit to optimize your cv joints with lift, and allow more travel. You'll need it.

6. Ever considered a snorkel intake? Check class rules. Also- ever considered a roof vent? Check rules.

7. I would also recommend smaller wheels. Less rotational, unsprung, and vehicle weight. Youll need as much flotation as possible for sand, rocks, jumps, etc. I almost guarantee a tacoed wheel with 18's depending on your size's aspect ratio. Also check to see if Tire pressure monitoring Systems are allowed. Dont want to roll over halfway through or have tire failure. Deserts suck to be stranded in! :thumbdn:I would also recommend "stout" All Terrains, or even "mild" Mud terrains. What are those directional, soft rubber Yokohama called? Ive always wanted to try them, but being a soft compound, they dont last for a "street vehicle". More research needed.

8. Tranny cooler, tranny cooler, tranny cooler. I would also recommend hacking the truck to fit the larger radiator like you said, and maybe a dual tranny/Oil cooler. If you can find an easy way to cooler the diffs. I WOULD DO THAT TOO if it can be done without risking torn hoses or something. The 4L30 isnt the best. I would try to find a way to get the Trooper 5 speed under the bonnet before the race if possible. Hasnt been done yet to my knowledge. Does this affect class?

9. The rear LSD is a stout unit, are additional diffs allowed in the class? Hmmm... front LSD is possible as well. May have to use tire pressure adjustments to keep from "plowing". The increased acceleration and lack of wheelspeed differences slamming together may allow the diff to last? This may overcome the decrease in cornering under throttle. post-turn acceleration via traction vs. mid-turn throttle. Theorizing needed here.:_steering

10. There should be a way to mount a "screen" over the air intake area abhove the hood, or a hack into the vents to filter particulates for passengers. Ever thought of a filtered small fan and hoses to helmets for driver/co-driver? Works great in M2 Bradley Fighting Vehicles! Ditch the whole stock HVAC system as well?

11. Also, use the Geolandar VX, Tonbo house, etc. VX's for references as to mods others have done. Isnt there a pic of a modded VX in Japan with shock towers through to the hood (maybe through cargo area?), and jumping serious air in some sand? We'll have to find that as well. It also had a MAJOR tranny cooler as well.

12. I would go over every aspect of vehicle maintenance. How many miles on her? Fan, timing belt, hoses, fuel pump, fuel filter, spark plugs, oil, tranny fluid, diff fluids, engine coolant, flush brake lines, power steering fluid, etc. etc. etc.

I know alot of this is common sense, but I hope me ratting off thoughts on a post might have brought up something helpful.

Good luck, we all know you will need as much as possible like all Baja entries!!!:luck:

[MoonRaker]

Alot of thats on the to do list as for mods im waiting for a reply to my Email as whats alowed for each class, it may change year to year also. I like the coolers idea and it can increase the volume, im even thinging of doing it for the engine oil. The trannycooler are an easy addition. Internal adjustable suspension is a biggie if they allow it in class. Tires have already been decided since I have an extra 4 nittos, gonna get more also, looking into 15 inch rims so that may all change. A front to back belly pan is also in the works. How far into the dakar did those guys get???? thanks

[MrCrowley]

I cant remember, and I am still trying to find the story as I have time today. Will keep looking unless someone posts it.

[MrCrowley]

Lol. A little OT, but a good read. http://www.dakarrally.co.uk/previous_entries.htm

Never saw this before http://www.siteset.co.uk/dakar/extra2.html

[Ldub]

A couple other beefy pieces you may wish to consider...

HD tie rod ends & lower links from www.independent4x.com
Also, a set of their stainless braid brake lines.

Another thought on HVAC filtration, some foam fastened under the existing intake might help filter out the bigger chunks.;)

[MrCrowley]

LDUB beat me to it. I thought about that driving on my lunchbreak as well. Wouldnt want the left tire going left, the right tire trying to go right, and the driver ****ting himself trying to go straight!!!:eek: Still looking for the Dakar VX attempt.

[Ldub]

Keep a eye out for an email featuring "BAJA" in the topic...I sent you some pics of different suspension set ups that might be of help.

[Chopper]

A good friend, Ron, runs every few years...his goal is just to not DNF. In your post that got lost, I wrote a pretty comprehensive list of basic stuff we did to the Cherokee he ran last time. He burnt up around 25000 (alot on suspension and shop time) before he left the shop. OK....it went like this... every thing in the interior, out...dash, door panels, carpet...everything. Sound deading material--out. door glass,motors, regulators---out. Hood insert and fire blanket---gone(you'll only break it anyway) At this point, go ahead and lift the body off. All wear items (bushings, bearings, link ends, ball joints, U joints etc. etc.) are replaced...The Jeep has us there...they have endless upgrades at their disposal. All armor and bracing is done now. Suspension upgrades are done now. (He went with a Bilstein design arrangement, pricey) Do your cage right...you won't need to brace to frame much. I personally would not take this TOD/tranny combo on any kind of race...I'm wary of it on the street...it is not durable, and not designed with this in mind. A 4x Rodeo or Amigo will get the layout you need (if you must stay Isuzu) Body on...Build your cage(do it right, tie it to the rails, your car will be billet stiff) fire supression in...gauge cluster, wheel, seat shells etc. in Figure how you are gonna tie down everything you are gonna carry (spares etc) and double the fasteners. He goes with steel wheels, figures a B.F.H. will straighten them in a pinch ( rocks are the enemy, not sand) Never worried about cabin filtration(never thought about it) but your engine is another matter...it hates dirt. I don't think you wanna breathe thru a wheel well in a desert race. Place your tranny cooler carefully...keeping crap outta the radiator is a real issue as well. I don't know if you should start without the front cladding, or just wait for it to rip away...is it better to start looking good, and finish looking battered, or start raggedy and finish the same....either way, that plastic nose ain't crossing the finish line with you (not if you drive with any Brio) We've scratched the surface here...leave a couple of months to rag it out HARD...break anything that will break....rebuild it...break it again...rebuild it. You are now ready to D.N.F.!!!! Go back and do it all stronger,lighter, better. Any way we can be of assistance (short of sponsership) let me know...(I cannot show pictures of his stuff, so don't ask) Good luck Bra...I'd love to see a VX show up.

[MoonRaker]

I wounder if the classes are HP seperated and not suspension.

[Ldub]

every thing in the interior, out...dash, door panels, carpet...everything. Sound deading material--out. door glass,motors, regulators out... Never worried about cabin filtration(never thought about it)

Dude...

How is he gonna run the AC during the day with no freakin side windows.:confused:
re-read post #1 if you think I'm kidding.
Sorry man,but running Baja in a nearly stock VX, with the windows up & the AC cranked just cracks me up...:p

[MoonRaker]

Dude...

How is he gonna run the AC during the day with no freakin side windows.:confused:
re-read post #1 if you think I'm kidding.
Sorry man,but running Baja in a nearly stock VX, with the windows up & the AC cranked just cracks me up...:p

Well, it wouldnt crack you up if you were crippled. Bet you wouldnt have the nuts I have or could even walk a day in my shoes.

[Ldub]

Well, it wouldnt crack you up if you were crippled. Bet you wouldnt have the nuts I have or could even walk a day in my shoes.

No offence meant MR...I admire your pluck, but like Chopper said, Baja is a BEAST, not to be taken lightly.

I got a bit of a chuckle out of myself, doing some of the trails in Moab with the AC on (in the same over 50 club) finally opting for a headband & lots of water as the temp ga. went past 214...

I'm not trying to dissuade your efforts, but you should understand...Baja is a BEAST !

[ZEUS]

Your biggest obstacle may be in the smallest numbers anyway. Below, I highlighted in red something you may want to check into before you go any further. This is from 9 years ago:
Class 3 (http://www.score-international.com./rules/class3.htm)
"Vehicles built from a 4-Wheel drive utility type vehicle. Vehicle must have been series produced in quantities of at least 5,000 units within a 12 month period and be readily available to the general public in the U.S.A. Must be a 4-Wheel drive vehicle capable of being driven through all four wheels."
Class 3 is the domain of short wheelbase vehicles like the Early Bronco, Bronco II, Jeep, Kia Sportage, and Chevy Blazer. Known for a brutally rough ride, Class 3 none the less remains popular in desert racing at large, but has recently seen a decline in entrants in the SCORE series.
Often built on a low budget, Class 3 makes an ideal entry point for new racers. The broad, open rules of the class have resulted in some impressive suspension configurations, and suprising performance.

Here is the link: http://www.off-road.com/race/981k/html/program1.html

[MoonRaker]

Nice, from the looks of it you can do what you want to the suspension, not sure about motor but id guess anything for reliabilty like a bigger raidiator and so on is ok. Looks like that or the stock mini class. Hmm, wich to shoot for, I have some ideas for suspension.

[MoonRaker]

if they alowe motor mods we have about 20 lysome blowers instock, just kidding.

[Ldub]

Your biggest obstacle may be in the smallest numbers anyway. Below, I highlighted in red something you may want to check into before you go any further. This is from 9 years ago:
Vehicle must have been series produced in quantities of at least 5,000 units within a 12 month period
Unless the rules have changed to include limited production vehicles, you may have a problem.

[ZEUS]

I am glad you quoted my post, Ldub... I was thinking there might be a problem with the new server not showing my posts to others! :eek:

[MoonRaker]

Didnt they import 40,000 in the 4 years it was shipped to the states.

[etlsport]

they didn't even make 5,000 in 3 years combined

[MoonRaker]

Are you sure
"Vehicles built from a 4-Wheel drive utility type vehicle. Vehicle must have been series produced in quantities of at least 5,000 units within a 12 month period and be readily available to the general public in the U.S.A. Must be a 4-Wheel drive vehicle capable of being driven through all four wheels."

It dosnt say how many needed to be imported, just 5,000 units, just must be available in the US, im pretty sure they made more and sold them in other parts of the world. What do you think?

[MoonRaker]

Wounder if the rules have changed since 98

[etlsport]

i dont know if the jdm would be considered with the american VX production since its got a different engine and its RHD... even so i dont think they turned out 5,000 in a 12 month period combined american and jdm

[MoonRaker]

Hmm, dont they let the VW v-10s run

[MoonRaker]

trying to find a loophole

[MoonRaker]

Ill just tell them its an amiego on steroids, lol

[cyronman]

Unless I'm really tired and you guys are aware of this already, it's been done before:

Laughlin/SCORE Desert Series Baja 1000, they also clinched the overall Class 3 title for the third consecutive year. The Sportage, driven by off-road champions Skilton and Curt LeDuc, also claimed the 1999 Class 3 championship by winning its fifth race of the six-race series. Skilton drove the Sportage to Class championships in 1997 and 1998.
The Sportage beat out seven Class 3 competitors that included a Nissan Pathfinder (http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enthusiasts/Motorsports_and_Racing/Livin_La_Vida_Baja.S247.A1483.html#), Isuzu VehiCross, Jeep CJ-7, two Isuzu Amigos and two Ford Bronco IIs.


http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enthusiasts/Motorsports_and_Racing/Livin_La_Vida_Baja.S247.A1483.html




I'm going to bed...

[MoonRaker]

Nice, so its been done before, theres no way im letting a kia beat me dammit. If one entered then and didnt show anything special im sure there gona let it slid for a disabled vet with PVA sponsorship. That made me feel so much better, thanks for pointing it out now I can sleep, class 3 it will be.

[MrCrowley]

Well, I might have to get cracking, and haunt the old Trooper forums to find the Dakar info I was hunting. Also, now that a target class is chosen, try to find out EVERYTHING thats is and isnt allowed stock. Dont want to show up the day of, and find out your windshield washer tank or some oddball thing not qualify you.

[ZEUS]

I think every VehiCROSS owner can learn something valuable from this interview.

http://www.planetisuzoo.com/articles.htm?id=68&Bob_Land_Interview

[MrCrowley]

Its been a long long time since I read that! Bob Land even raffled a set of headers for our engine off. 1 lousy set!!! none for resale- go figure.

I am at a loss so far on finding that dakar run article he mentioned. Tried for two days. I guess it is lost to the intarnet now lol

[Joe_Black]

MoonRaker, have you contacted the Baja organization to obtain rules and classifications documents? In racing you don't even begin planning until you've gotten all your research done and know EXACTLY what you need to build and gather for the effort. You just don't roll up to tech and say "I'm here to race" and expect to get your numbers. Not to mention you'll likely be expected to provide documented proof of racing instruction and experience, such as an FIA racing license.

I did the 1995 La Carrera Panamericana in mainland Mexico and also took a stab at 500 miles of the Baja course in a Baja Challenge car early 2006, and can certainly speak from experience that if you just jump into this without first contacting the event organizers and sactioning bodies you're going to leave a huge hole in your wallet and ego.

[Chopper]

Well, it wouldnt crack you up if you were crippled. Bet you wouldnt have the nuts I have or could even walk a day in my shoes.

Paraplegic, quadruple amputee, or orange water head...that engine won't care what your personal special situation...you will not last long with the AC blowing. You'll be leaving that on the shop floor, with all the other useless stuff. Hate to break it to you...you won't be listening to the radio or your CDs either for that matter. 'Cause you left the friggin dash on the shop floor too! Next to the AC and leather seats. There is NO concession to "comfort." A Nextel phone and hand held GPS are priceless on the other hand. By the way...I got scrotties the size of coconuts..careful who you wave that "crippled" flag at...you don't know everyone's situation. Lots of people, dealin' with lots of crap...and not all of the damage is necessarily on the outside either. Now...focus and build a competitive VX. Ron is running the Jeep, and I would love to see you there.

[Ldub]

I am glad you quoted my post, Ldub... I was thinking there might be a problem with the new server not showing my posts to others! :eek:

Uhhh, yah...selective hearing ?:confused:

[MoonRaker]

MoonRaker, have you contacted the Baja organization to obtain rules and classifications documents? In racing you don't even begin planning until you've gotten all your research done and know EXACTLY what you need to build and gather for the effort. You just don't roll up to tech and say "I'm here to race" and expect to get your numbers. Not to mention you'll likely be expected to provide documented proof of racing instruction and experience, such as an FIA racing license.

No ****, I posted that a few days ago, I wrote an Email to the baja orginization, havent gotten a response yet, its a long time before the 2008 baja. When better to start the planning then over a year prior, im not just showwing up to tech. I now all about tech inspects. As for the instructions and liscenses, Cam Worth is very well known in the racing community, maybe not offroad but hell hes the only guy to ever finish the daytona 24 in a turbocharged RX-7. He gets liscenses with phone calls. You now the 20b 3 rotor dune buggys, he was involved in that project so we do have connections. That stuff is the least of my worries, makeing a list of things to do is the priority. First im waiting for word on the exact rules for the class, like I said, I hope theres no limitation on suspension. My trucks still stock and will stay that way until I get back from Glamis. After some fun in the sand im headed for dessert driving conditions, I want to get an idea of whats gona be neccesity. I now Bajas a beast and not a walk in the park im trying to handle as much of the un expected and get started early at it.

[MoonRaker]

Paraplegic, quadruple amputee, or orange water head...that engine won't care what your personal special situation...you will not last long with the AC blowing. You'll be leaving that on the shop floor, with all the other useless stuff. Hate to break it to you...you won't be listening to the radio or your CDs either for that matter. 'Cause you left the friggin dash on the shop floor too! Next to the AC and leather seats. There is NO concession to "comfort." A Nextel phone and hand held GPS are priceless on the other hand. By the way...I got scrotties the size of coconuts..careful who you wave that "crippled" flag at...you don't know everyone's situation. Lots of people, dealin' with lots of crap...and not all of the damage is necessarily on the outside either. Now...focus and build a competitive VX. Ron is running the Jeep, and I would love to see you there.

A-men on that but im gona see if its worth keeping the AC though, lol.

[MoonRaker]

Check this out, found this trying to find tech specs for baja.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/fj-cruiser/90871-toyota-baja-1000-fj-cruiser/

[Ldub]

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/Garland_VX31.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/10029)

[Ldub]

HA! I did it...posted an image in a reply...

Anyway, here's some food 4 thought MR. Like I said, no offence meant in my earlier post.
I'm totally equal opprotunity, meaning I dislike & distrust everyone equally until proven otherwise...& yes, that is a joke.:p

[Joe_Black]

Check this out, found this trying to find tech specs for baja.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/fj-cruiser/90871-toyota-baja-1000-fj-cruiser/
You might want to take a look at this about the build for that truck: http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/minisite/baja1000/race_truck_build.html

Here's a Baja motorsports site and forum: http://www.baja.net

The official SCORE Baja 1000 site: http://www.score-international.com/baja1000/index.ihtml

The official entry form (only $2000 for sportsman, not bad): https://www.score-international.com/registration/baja.aspx

[MoonRaker]

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=74089837&albumId=0

let me now if you cant get these pics. Those are cool, easy acsses to everything behind the dash.

[Ldub]

Your computer skillz are only equal to those I posess...probably superior, I'm Amish...& no, I'm only seeing a home page. Though the self repairing chair does look interesting.;)

[Ldub]

OK, upon further perusal, "you must be logged in to do dat."

[MoonRaker]

Dam

[MoonRaker]

Ok,taking whats being done to the toyota as the route I will be taking. Shocks, springs, and beaf up the needed. Add coolers and remote resevors adding fuids and keeping the stock systems cooler. Roll cage is another one that im gona need to figure out, A custom boltin might be a good rout. Im not trying to make the truck undrivable after baja.

[Joe_Black]

Bolt-in won't cut it for competition, but you won't need to go chromoly either as standard 2.75 DOM is what you'll likely need unless they're spec'ing something oddball in whatever class you fit. I'm currently working on a full cage for my rally VX and have budgeted about $3K for the job, so you'll be looking at about the same for the materials and labor. It will still be driveable afterwards, but definitely permanently altered from the cage pads and carry-throughs.

There are a few pics here that might help from my rally project: http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=9196&highlight=rally+beast&page=2

[Chopper]

Your computer skillz are only equal to those I posess...probably superior, I'm Amish...& no, I'm only seeing a home page. Though the self repairing chair does look interesting.;)

I could never quite put a reason to it...now I can. I grew up in N.E. Pa.. I am the only person I know, that has hooked and driven Percheron's, Belgians, Mules, and hot ol' Standardbreds. We had the only phone for miles, and (except for a few Mennonites) the only vehicles. I made a living for years, with horses (they've broken most of my bones) Now I know why I like you :)

[Ldub]

I could never quite put a reason to it...now I can. I grew up in N.E. Pa.. I am the only person I know, that has hooked and driven Percheron's, Belgians, Mules, and hot ol' Standardbreds. We had the only phone for miles, and (except for a few Mennonites) the only vehicles. I made a living for years, with horses (they've broken most of my bones) Now I know why I like you :)


Sorry Chopper, that should have read "nearly Amish in my computer skills"...I'd rather you were mad at me for my misinformation, than have you think I'm something I'm not. I don't have anywhere near your depth of experience with horses, though our somewhat primative/ rural backgrounds are similar.;)
Moon, sorry for the thread jack.

[MoonRaker]

No problem, my thoughts of horses are there nice animals. My neighbor had one trained like a dog. I wouldnt ever get back up on one though, went out with a few friends while in the army and the ride was finda till we turnned them around then ALL of them started racing towards the barn, there were guys that fell off, jumped into trees and me the only one still on the horse standing in the Barn after a mile of full tilt lack of control and hand prints left in the saddle, never been on a horse since.

[Chopper]

Notice the phone and vehicle references...we were the only non-Amish/Mennonite in a pretty large area. Everyone helps harvest everyone else this time of year...stuff rubs off, when you're a kid. My apologies Moon, back to Baja.

[MoonRaker]

Has anyone played with a system like this on the VX. We just installed one on a test car (supercharged RX-8) and it nearly froze the intake pre supercharger. This impressed me and thats hard to do. They claim 100 hp on mustang cobra all motor and up to 400 degrees cooler exaust.
http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=9

[Ldub]

That's been rolling around the back of my brain since I saw it in the Summit Racing catalog...thought it would be great in conjunction with the S/C.
Since the S/C boosts the power up to near the limits recommended for our tranny, it's probably good that I can't afford it.;)

[MoonRaker]

That's been rolling around the back of my brain since I saw it in the Summit Racing catalog...thought it would be great in conjunction with the S/C.
Since the S/C boosts the power up to near the limits recommended for our tranny, it's probably good that I can't afford it.;)

Im thinking without the S/C. Its completly tunable, it not only created lots more power on WW2 P-51s but increased the gas milage also. It Keeps your overall Temps down. You gotta rember the methonal is incapable of burning at a 50/50 mix so it cools everything.

[Ldub]

I don't have your depth of experience, but I got the impression that these kits worked best with boost. But if you can crank the volume down enough, it sounds doable.

[MoonRaker]

Like I said before, they have done it on a natraly asperated cobra mustang and gained 100 HP, even a 50 HP increase would be awsome.

[Joe_Black]

Without forced induction you won't see any significant power increase, and if they're claiming increases without boost then it's likely bogus. The P-51 had a two-stage supercharger, the NA meant "North American" who was the manufacturer of the P-51. Unless you have something to force additional air into an engine then the volume of fuel available to generate power is pretty much limited by displacement. But like P. T. Barnum said, "There's a sucker born every minute" and it seems most own vehicles. ;)

[Chopper]

Dub...you a Deadhead?

[Chopper]

Hey Joe....you wanna argue radials vs. inlines.....vs. Vs? The P51's aero played a bigger part than its engine. You couldn't stay on boost long, before you grenaded the thing anyway. I've read a few pieces about using the alcohol as a cooling charge, instead of fuel...lots of potential there. P.S. P38's were blown till their head bolts trembled......same deal....you got it for 32 seconds.

[MoonRaker]

Well, we went from 265 to 305 on the dyno this afternoon on a supercharged RX-8. The throttlbody on back tends to get so cold it sweats on the outside. Seriosly if you bring intake temps down that low in a high heat atmosphere shouldnt it in theary gain power and bringing total head and exaust temps down increasing durabuility under high stress applications.

[Joe_Black]

Hey Joe....you wanna argue radials vs. inlines.....vs. Vs? The P51's aero played a bigger part than its engine. You couldn't stay on boost long, before you grenaded the thing anyway. I've read a few pieces about using the alcohol as a cooling charge, instead of fuel...lots of potential there. P.S. P38's were blown till their head bolts trembled......same deal....you got it for 32 seconds.
I love the round engines moreso than the inlines, although there's a little fondness for the inverted inlines like the Bf-109's Benz and the Fi-156's Argus (okay, it's an inverted V). Even the Fw-190's BMW radial had methanol injection for brief high altitude boosting, as you mentioned for only brief periods before the excessive compression made things looser than intended. Never was a fan of the Merlins, got two here that roar around the pattern fairly regular (P51 and a Spit) but they're nothing compared to the occasional B-25 or A-26. Took my Dad up in a B-17 couple years back and I wouldn't trade that for two rides in a Lancaster!


Well, we went from 265 to 305 on the dyno this afternoon on a supercharged RX-8. The throttlbody on back tends to get so cold it sweats on the outside.
Basic physics and mechanics at work there. You're pulling a lot of air through a venturi at high velocity, and if you know anything about basic aviation as well that's a recipe for icing which is why most recip aircraft have carb heat. Show me a hot carburetor or throttle body and I'll show you an engine that isn't running. ;)

[MoonRaker]

Well the A/I did drop the charge temps alot, 40 F. The intake and throttlebody are very hot because of underhood temps without the meth, if it wernt for the water to air IC the charge temps would be way to high. Im not trying to argue with ya. But with the testing ive done sofar ive gotten nothing but postive results, better then I expected, way better, come on -(40 F). We already ordered 10 more kits, 1 is going on the VX and im going to see if I can pull more power but even better, extend the life of a tank of gas. Ill tell ya how far down it pulls the air temps in N/A form, touch your plentum, that thing gets dam hot. Might unplug the FWD and strap it down to the dyno for giggles. On the air fuel reading stock at wide open throttle it was reading 12.5, with the meth/water injection we fattened the air/fuel all the way to 11.5 and it cleaned the plugs like it was runnung leaner and even the exaust cleaned up. Temps dropped all the way around, even the the engine water temps at full load. I also see it helping keep oil temps down but we wont now till more testing is finished. Weve only had this system working for 3 days. Im sure were going to see more to come.

[MoonRaker]

Just talked to our test guy for the meth, he said he got 30 more miles out of his tank then he usualy gets, this is on a RX-8 with a supercharger kit with the meth tuned to come on under high load over 4000 RPM. He burned through 2 quarts 50/50 mix and ran out about 50 miles short of the end of the tank. Were installing a 5 gallon tank in his trunk next week and im going to work on a cruzing spray tune to see how well that works. Ill keep you posted, I might just install it this week on the VX. At the moment im getting 280 to 310 per tank on the highway.

[Joe_Black]

Considering methanol is about $5 - $6 a quart ($20 - $30 a gallon) the mileage increase is more a step backward from the economy standpoint. Heck, at least in the VX you could put the DI drivetrain from an '04 Axiom or Rodeo in and get an increase in HP, torque and mileage plus a better tranny. LOL, if he'd stayed off meth he could've afforded another fill-up!

Knock yourself out Moonraker, I can get you some genuine ground plane isolators that should net you another 5HP by freeing up bound electron isotopes trapped in your chassis. ;)

Looking forward to your Baja report.

[MoonRaker]

Na, $2 a gallon, We buy it 55 gallons at a time and not at the track.

[Ldub]

Dub...you a Deadhead?

Quite possibly, but only from the neck up...not a big fan of the Deads music.

Just wanted to drag this thread out of mothballs to see if Moonraker has any further info. on the methanol injection or Baja prep...I have my doubts, since he hasn't been active since his last post.:sighwgray

[Chopper]

I'm sceptable....but it sounded like a pipe dream from the git. If you were gonna Baja, why in the world would you pick this car? Maybe eight or ten years ago...even then the cost to get this thing race ready would be scary...but you would stand out.