honda insight

[etlsport]

anyone ever driven one? been looking into a fuel efficient sibling for the vx to help keep miles on the vx down... insights are definitely head turners like the vx.. although not nearly as cool looking imho.. they get gawked at for the wrong reasons.. but at 70+mpg its looking like a very good option

any thoughts?

[johnnyapollo]

If you're looking at used, realize that the batteries may need to be replaced and they aren't cheap.

-- John

[JHarris1385]

Go to cardomain.com and search for them. Some owners have tricked them out to get more hp and if I remember correctly over 100mpg.

My friends family owns one and they are ok, for its main use (save gas)

[kobie]

I think the Insight has been discontinued for a few years and used may be your only option. It may have been replaced by this:
http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/?from=fcx.honda.com

[etlsport]

yea ive been looking used.. from what i have heard most of the batteries have a 150k mile warranty on them, ones i have been looking at have between 55-120k on them.. usual asking price is between 6-11k

[Bulldoggie]

From the blogs I've been reading, the Toyota Prius is light years ahead in Hybred Tech, Enough so that Honda has admited to going back to the drawing board, Honda's models cost more too.

[Joe_Black]

Ah, the gasoline hybrid. Makes ya feel good about being an even nastier polluter than using just gas alone. :rolleyes: Does anyone even research this stuff anymore? Or is just because "they say it's good"?

[Chopper]

Driving an Insight, reminded me of driving one of those Cal tech creations, only.... the wires weren't dangling, and it all worked...sort of. It was a horrible car. An experiment, a toy, a distraction....ok. Something I'm driving every day....no way. You want looks? Resurrect an old "Citicar" They're still around. Some Optima's is all they need. Citicar is easily as crappy as an Insight, probably even MORE dangerous in traffic, and even weirderer looking. Smart will be near you soon. In the city, that micro is the way to go....unless you can hold out for the new Fiat 500. 11 grand is %75 of a Smart. I'd almost move to a city to drive one.:bwgr:

[Chopper]

Ah, the gasoline hybrid. Makes ya feel good about being an even nastier polluter than using just gas alone. :rolleyes: Does anyone even research this stuff anymore? Or is just because "they say it's good"? No one thinks of that little toxic waste disposal nightmare of a battery in the damn things. Guess we'll just load 'em up and shoot 'em at the sun when we're done with them. Anyone remember Porsche's "forever car" (lifetime car). Interchangeable systems and parts allowing for upgrades and replacements as needed, in a modular arrangement? You only ever buy one car, just turn it into what you wanted as you went along. Really need to start thinking more like this:o

[etlsport]

my thought is that they are already made so i might as well use it.. selfish i know but my motives are not eco related.. im of the persuasion that there are enough ignorants out there that my efforts will make very little difference in the grand scheme of things.. so this purchase is strictly for money saving purposes(and keeping miles off the vx).......

ive been looking through their forum.. looks decent, these things get insane gas mileage.. but if the drive is as bad as chopper says i guess ill keep looking.. smart car was kind of an option.. this car would mostly be for highway trips.. my new lady friend lives about 100 miles away..my mom and sis live about 150 miles away.. vx mileage kills me on those drives!

[Bulldoggie]

Ah, the gasoline hybrid. Makes ya feel good about being an even nastier polluter than using just gas alone. :rolleyes: Does anyone even research this stuff anymore? Or is just because "they say it's good"?

http://www.dailytech.com/Honda+CEO+Says+Civic+Hybrid+was+a+Mistake/article10147.htm

The comments after the article with attached links pretty much covers all these debates.
Enough to convince me to stay away from all hybrids except the Prius.
I did own a diesel rabbit, and I must say it's a great feeling to go 530mi+ between fueling.
Both sides of this argument are valid, I like to keep an open mind to future Tech. An indie Japanese Prof. has developed an all electric 8 wheel drive (motors in the wheels) 370kmph+ car-----Think slot car fast ... the Eliica
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=8754&vf=23

P.S. Why post if your opinion doesn't matter.
IMHO, some posters seem to want the last word on EVERY topic.
it must be great to know so much.

[Joe_Black]

my thought is that they are already made so i might as well use it.. selfish i know but my motives are not eco related.. im of the persuasion that there are enough ignorants out there that my efforts will make very little difference in the grand scheme of things.. so this purchase is strictly for money saving purposes(and keeping miles off the vx).......

ive been looking through their forum.. looks decent, these things get insane gas mileage.. but if the drive is as bad as chopper says i guess ill keep looking.. smart car was kind of an option.. this car would mostly be for highway trips.. my new lady friend lives about 100 miles away..my mom and sis live about 150 miles away.. vx mileage kills me on those drives!

Pick up a used VW or Mercedes diesel. They're cheap and super-easy to work on, especially the Mercedes. A 300D Turbo rides nice, handles pretty decent and is incredibly well built plus will net you about 32MPG. Oh, they'll run on straight vegetable oil too! A couple I bought a 300SD from over in Largo was getting these big plastic cubes of soy oil from Costco for almost a buck less than what diesel was a gallon and ran the car on it for the several years they had it. Now the price gap is likely even wider, so it's nice to know you've got even more economical options. ;)

[johnnyapollo]

Found this Top Gear review of the Prius - thought it was pretty funny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmG05AtNVtM&NR=1
Several references to diesels in there.

-- John

[JHarris1385]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Veggie-SVO-WVO-1981-300d-Mercedes-Diesel-No-Reserv_W0QQitemZ260203436236QQcmdZViewItem?hash=it em260203436236

[alanbradley]

New I'd go for a Smart or a Yaris. I'm not a fan of the Fit/Jazz.

Used? VW TDis are inordinately expensive compared to over here so again I'd go along the lines of an Echo. There's a guy in CA imported an Echo HB from Canada a year or so ago and I know he's ordered a new Smart... His Echo is really frugal, a bit different and I could put you in touch if you like.

A

[etlsport]

Found this Top Gear review of the Prius - thought it was pretty funny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmG05AtNVtM&NR=1
Several references to diesels in there.

-- John

haha! thats great

[Chopper]

my thought is that they are already made so i might as well use it.. selfish i know but my motives are not eco related.. im of the persuasion that there are enough ignorants out there that my efforts will make very little difference in the grand scheme of things.. so this purchase is strictly for money saving purposes(and keeping miles off the vx).......

ive been looking through their forum.. looks decent, these things get insane gas mileage.. but if the drive is as bad as chopper says i guess ill keep looking.. smart car was kind of an option.. this car would mostly be for highway trips.. my new lady friend lives about 100 miles away..my mom and sis live about 150 miles away.. vx mileage kills me on those drives!

You NEED to check out a Jetta TDI little brother. That is what it does best. Go to Md. to see the fam for like six or seven gallons round trip, and it's fun to drive. As for the GF...there is a lot of females in Phila??? why you traveling for....(big talk from a guy that drove from Roosevelt and Veree to Brooklyn each Friday:p....we've been married eleven years now;)) Please test drive a Jetta (I'm not even a VW fan) before you buy anything. It won't change you, or burn its way into your heart, but it's a fine tool for the job.

[Joe_Black]

Please test drive a Jetta (I'm not even a VW fan) before you buy anything. It won't change you, or burn its way into your heart, but it's a fine tool for the job.
Well, it is starting to grow on me. A little. Like I'm starting to think maybe suspension and a short-throw shifter from dieselgeek.com maybe...

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

Well, it is starting to grow on me. A little. Like I'm starting to think maybe suspension and a short-throw shifter from dieselgeek.com maybe...

Summit Racing catalog actually has a diesel section (mostly trucks...okay..nearly entirely for trucks) that lists a product specifically for VW TDI that claims to get more performance:

BD Diesel Volkswagen X-Power Computer Modules

More power and torque with BD Diesel's X-Power module.

Economy doesn't have to be boring. Not with BD's X-Power modules for the Volkswagen TDI. The Volkswagen TDI is known for its amazing economy, but for enthusiasts, its power output can feel somewhat lacking. Now you can add some excitement with BD's new X-Power modules. Simply plug them in to the ECM, and the X-Power modules increase the fuel injector supply pressure, resulting in an amazing gain of 20 hp and 30 ft.-lbs. of torque, along with quicker turbo response.

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+115+325028&D=325028

[Joe_Black]

Yeah, it's kinda scary the stuff available for trucks that mostly just gouts fuel out the tail pipe as "black smoke". The unfortunate trend among those with the HD trucks isn't at all about power & economy but just show-n-go. If you're making "black smoke" you're not tuned for maximum power as that smoke is mostly unconsumed fuel. It's normal for heavy equipment and commercial trucks to do it to some degree when under heavy load as the engine is burning as much fuel as it can while getting up to speed, but not for a pickup truck trying to get a set of 26" hoops down to McDonalds. :rolleyes:

For the VW TDI's there is quite an active tuning community and they're showing up in greater numbers at the drag strip, autocross and rally events. Diesel Geek (www.dieselgeek.com) is just one of many vendors with shiny new doo-dads to improve performance on these torquey little oil burners. I've got entirely too many projects and irons in the fire to start messing with the Jetta, but it will be SOOOO tempting when tire-time comes 'round! :bwgr:

[JHarris1385]

Since this thread I have been heavily considering buying a 300d. Would you happen to have a recommendation of what years to look at? Strictly the w123's?

[don moore]

Wholly Crap JOE BLACK..I think you need more suzoos ...lol;)

[etlsport]

i went and drove a jetta TDI friday... was acceptable... i just had to keep reminding myself that it gets great gas mileage so its ok that it was so painfully boring!

[Dumke]

anyone ever driven one? been looking into a fuel efficient sibling for the vx to help keep miles on the vx down... insights are definitely head turners like the vx.. although not nearly as cool looking imho.. they get gawked at for the wrong reasons.. but at 70+mpg its looking like a very good option

any thoughts?




OK here is what someone shed light to me. Ya you may save more in gas and feel great but @ what expense? Are you actuallys aving money? I mean sure your saving at the pump but then you have to look @ car payment plus insurence and then you have that nasty maintence payment as well. Ya VX sucks in gas but once its paid off then I am A ok plus if I wanted to save gas that is what my motorcycle is for... Sorry got off subject some what...



Seriously tho is you VX paid off? Also sure kepe miles down but hey you can always replace them which is much cheaper.


So in ending with my last word so no one post after me ;po;

Your looking @ savings 5-6 years down the road or when ever you pay the new eco car off.

[Joe_Black]

Since this thread I have been heavily considering buying a 300d. Would you happen to have a recommendation of what years to look at? Strictly the w123's?
Definitely stick with the turbo models as you'll get better fuel economy than the NA engines plus they drive more like a gasser. I've got a '78 300D non-turbo and not only is it slow off the line the tranny is designed to start you off in 2nd, necessitating the use of a kick-down switch mounted under the accelerator when you really need to GO. :) The 126 cars have a little bit of negative reputation which is somewhat deserved simply as there's more stuff to break on the inside due to all the fiddly bits that come with the higher trim level. The earlier 116 chassis S-class cars have a much more European style to them yet aren't any more complex than the regular 300D. Two mods that make a 300D even simpler to maintain, plus more fun to drive, is to replace the automatic climate control with the manual version from a 240D and to convert from automatic to manual. Fortunately the automatics are robust and easy for the average home mechanic to service. There's a fantastic forum much like this one for Mercedes enthusiast: MercedesShop.com (http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/forumdisplay.php?f=15)



i went and drove a jetta TDI friday... was acceptable... i just had to keep reminding myself that it gets great gas mileage so its ok that it was so painfully boring!
What year was it and manual or DSG? One thing that turns most gas drivers off is the different power band. Running up to 3000 RPM to shift is about ideal as the power drops off around 3300 - 3500 RPM, and the engine is really happy to cruise around 2000 RPM. It's all about torque, so once you learn where it is you'll be trying to keep the wheels from spinning! :bgwo:

I had little to no interest in the car until I drove a friend's Golf TDI to the airport and back a few times. I found it very responsive, comfortable for my tall frame and simply nice to drive. Next thing we know my wife and I are at the VW place test driving the Mk5 Jettas and ended up taking one home. It's a subtle, unassuming car that just slowly grows on you though. I've never been a FWD fan at all, but this car doesn't feel like one and is balance more like the RWD I'm familiar with. Time will tell if the mod-bug starts hitting the wallet though!


Wholly Crap JOE BLACK..I think you need more suzoos ...lol;)
I agree wholeheartedly! ;)

[johnnyapollo]

You need a nice 2000 proton to round out that sig-line banner. Give it a bit more pizzaz!

-- John

[etlsport]

i think it was a 98.. same body style anyway, manual..

yea the vx is completely paid off, i paid cash for it.. i know what you mean about extra expense but i would also love to keep the miles down on the VX so a second car is worth it... plus being able to put the vx out of commission for a little while for bigger mods

[Joe_Black]

i think it was a 98.. same body style anyway, manual..
That would be a Mk4 although it has a pretty good following and plenty of folk tuning it in TDI form. Definitely go take a look at the Mk5 (new as a mid-year 2005 model) as it's based on the same platform as the Audi A3 and is quite a different animal from the '98 you drove, plus a more powerful and refined TDI engine with the "Pumpe Duse" injection pump.


You need a nice 2000 proton to round out that sig-line banner. Give it a bit more pizzaz!

-- John
Yeah, somehow I think Kathy will be getting her 3.1L diesel Trooper built before I get another VX! ;)

[Dumke]

i think it was a 98.. same body style anyway, manual..

yea the vx is completely paid off, i paid cash for it.. i know what you mean about extra expense but i would also love to keep the miles down on the VX so a second car is worth it... plus being able to put the vx out of commission for a little while for bigger mods



Well then go with what you want. There will always be posatives and negatives to hybrid and diesel. IMO I like the fact that you can get some used veggie oil from a cooking place sometimes for free and use that as fuel. Free is always good to me :)

[JHarris1385]

As far as the 300D's I would really like to have an early 90's 300D but from what I have been reading those years are not as "great" as the older? My father's friend just totalled his E-Class diesel that had near 300,000 miles on it and running STRONG..... Which year gap would I most likely need to look out to get the best bang for my buck?

[Joe_Black]

Anything prior to '86 in generally the sweet-spot for MB diesels as the 6-cylinder that followed the 5-cylinder was prone to it's head developing cracks. The 5-cylinder 3.0L diesel is just a joy to work on as you couldn't get much simpler. It's like the Ford Falcon of German cars! ;) And you will see a lot of high mileages on the ones that were well maintained. I've currently got an '80 300SD (W116 chassis) that has almost 600K miles on the clock and runs strong still with the original engine. The couple I purchased it from had been running it for years on soy oil they bought in bulk from a local discount center, which made it run much quieter until I started blending regular diesel back into it then the normal diesel clatter returned after the soy ran out. :)

Just remember to stick to the turbo cars for the extra power and economy. Actually, if you don't mind a little body and interior work I'm looking to part with an '82 300D Turbo that's been converted to 4-speed manual. It's very quick and an absolute blast to drive! If interested shoot me a PM and I'll get you the details.

[JHarris1385]

Ok I think I got it now. Anything prior to an 86 with a turbo on the diesel. I was under the impression that all were turbos but now I got to make sure to watch for that. Is there anything in particular that I should look for? I assume one of these with more than 100,000 is not too bad after all? I would heavily consider your car for purchase but I plan to watch these for a couple months and buy when my income settles (just started a new job yesterday actually + getting married in a few months). If it is still around Ill pm you for sure.

[nater]

Joe, I think you've been misinformed. If it's the "Hummer is better" story, that's been debunked, but keeps getting posted all over the Internet.

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/8/27/124134/961

I now have the following vehicles in my driveway:

-2000 Isuzu Trooper (rarely moves)
-2004 Toyota Prius (moves occasionally, wife drives it)
-Extremely rare 2002 RAV4 EV, my daily driver. This car is a pure electric. It uses 1/4 the energy of a gasoline RAV4, and less than half the energy of the Prius. I charge it at home from wind power, so it is carbon free.

Our electric bill is an additional $25-30 per month for 1200 miles, and we spend about $25 to fill the Prius every six weeks. The Trooper of course takes about $65 to fill up. I filled it in August and again in January.

Our net fuel cost is around $50 and our carbon footprint has hit the floor. Diesels are popular, biodiesel is cool, but the emissions are still miserable.

The Insight has indeed been discontinued. Honda's system is parallel only, it doesn't scale like the Toyota and Ford systems. They use serial/parallel hybrid systems for better power an efficiency. The Insight got better mileage than the Prius because it was so small. The smart cars get worse mileage than the Prius, and I could tow one with my RAV4 EV.

There's a reason the Prius is so popular. It's a very good car, it's quite peppy, gets great mileage, and is large enough to actually haul people. I get about 45 MPG overall, even driving it hard. Of course, my electric RAV4 has 65,000 miles and counting, without a drop of gasoline.

Nate

[Bulldoggie]

nater;
I started a new thread, not wanting to hyjack this one.
a two part video of local EV racers, smoking Corvettes.
I think you might like it.



http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=12747

Glad to see you have one of the Rav4 EV's
I'm sure you saw the Doc. "who killed the electric car" about the GM EV's taken from their "Owners", who still wanted and Loved them, and were destroyed.
No salvage allowed.

[nater]

Not only have a I seen the film, I know the stars.

Here's an article about me.

http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1117

(moving to the EV thread).

Nate

[nater]

To sum up, people love their Insights, but many of them are needing batteries. It looks like Honda didn't quite have the battery management of Toyota and Ford. The Ford Escape seems to be the best, with actual A/C cooled air going across the batteries.

Also, avoid the 2000-2003 Prius. Its battery is not intended to last the life of the car, the 2004 and newer Prius battery is.

Good luck with your choice.

Nate

[Joe_Black]

Joe, I think you've been misinformed. If it's the "Hummer is better" story, that's been debunked, but keeps getting posted all over the Internet.
Oh no, not into that line of thinking at all. Behemoth show-n-go diesels like Hummers and mega-pickups don't ring my bell. But I feel that gasoline hybrids have been over-hyped and aren't all that they're touted to the general public. Key word here: Gasoline. There are a number of diesel hybrids in the pipeline that are much more promising. But again, this isn't new technology as hybrids were here and in production 100 years ago through the 1940's.

As some have mentioned an ideal would be 100% electric, but our greatest challenge is to change our driving habits and continue to develop improved storage technologies for electricity. My biggest personal interest is for American energy independence, which I believe would then lead to increased competition and research for improved energy technologies. Biofuels is but just one part of the greater equation, but the one I feel with the great immediate impact and viability. This would be a foundation for other technologies to stand on and garner additional support among the greater unthinking American public, who get behind what's put in front of their faces by the media moreso than anything learnable.

Unfortunately all the viable building blocks of our own energy independence have devolved into little greedy special interests that seem to spawn studies and rumors debunking each other trying to grab the spotlight for themselves. This infighting makes for a lot of confusion and uncertainty, keeping that same ignorant public at the gasoline pump.

As an aside, nice score on the RAV4 EV! I got outbid on two on eBay a while back and pretty much gave up on trying to get one, although they're likely the best production EV currently around. Been keeping my eye out for a VW Vanagon to convert to an EV as it could easily support a solar panel "roof" with enough output to significantly enhance the range in a daily-driver application. Then again, I''ve got enough projects. ;)

[Spike]

Driving an Insight, reminded me of driving one of those Cal tech creations, only.... the wires weren't dangling, and it all worked...sort of. It was a horrible car. An experiment, a toy, a distraction....ok. Something I'm driving every day....no way. You want looks? Resurrect an old "Citicar" They're still around. Some Optima's is all they need. Citicar is easily as crappy as an Insight, probably even MORE dangerous in traffic, and even weirderer looking. Smart will be near you soon. In the city, that micro is the way to go....unless you can hold out for the new Fiat 500. 11 grand is %75 of a Smart. I'd almost move to a city to drive one.:bwgr:

A Citicar used to be spotted in West Chester PA several years back.. yea... looks like someone cut the back end off...

You want looks? T-Rex ... but... no doors. so.. its a fair weather vehicle...

[Spike]

http://www.dailytech.com/Honda+CEO+Says+Civic+Hybrid+was+a+Mistake/article10147.htm

The comments after the article with attached links pretty much covers all these debates.
Enough to convince me to stay away from all hybrids except the Prius.
I did own a diesel rabbit, and I must say it's a great feeling to go 530mi+ between fueling.
Both sides of this argument are valid, I like to keep an open mind to future Tech. An indie Japanese Prof. has developed an all electric 8 wheel drive (motors in the wheels) 370kmph+ car-----Think slot car fast ... the Eliica
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=8754&vf=23

P.S. Why post if your opinion doesn't matter.
IMHO, some posters seem to want the last word on EVERY topic.
it must be great to know so much.

I wouldnt touch a Prius with a 10 foot crankshaft ... ashes to ashes study shows it is more damaging to the environment than a Hummer... (ashes to ashes = from the time the materials are gathered to build it until the day it gets crushed/recycled. )

Plus they are hideous looking... and in my personal experience, their owners are often extremely arrogant... to the point of wanting to ban plastic testicles from the back of vehicles in Maryland. :P

Aside from all of that, forget changing your own oil. Do it wrong, engine starts up right after you drain it, and you just siezed up your engine...

Oh yea.. and dont bother trying to put a supercharger on one :P

[johnnyapollo]

Hey Spike - that "study" has been debunked. Seems the setup of the Hummer factory was left out of the equation as "unavailable" or some-such. If you'll do a search on it you'll find that's it's an attempt at misdirection.

-- John

[Spike]

Hey Spike - that "study" has been debunked. Seems the setup of the Hummer factory was left out of the equation as "unavailable" or some-such. If you'll do a search on it you'll find that's it's an attempt at misdirection.

-- John

Ok, but the rest of my comments were valid...

oh... speaking of the 500... here is one taking a ride on a train!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aciPS5zBnH0&feature=related

[Ldub]

I wouldnt touch a Prius with a 10 foot crankshaft ... Plus they are hideous looking... and in my personal experience, their owners are often extremely arrogant... to the point of wanting to ban plastic testicles from the back of vehicles in Maryland. :P


See "Smug" episode of South Park.:smilewink

[Spike]

See "Smug" episode of South Park.:smilewink

http://www.southparkzone.com/episodes/1002/Smug-Alert!.html

ROFL! Never caught that one... SO much truth!!!

[nater]

You wanna see smug? The Prius drivers have got nothing on me in the EV!

Joe is right. The Prius is merely a high-efficiency gasoline powered car, albeit a relatively big and powerful one. I will be trading it for a plug-in hybrid as soon as they come to market.

Foreign oil is the biggest problem our country faces. Wars are not fought over electricity.

As for changing your own oil, you can do it without a problem. Just make sure the car is off. You wouldn't change the oil with the key on in the VX, would you? You make it sound like the Prius is "Christine" or something. There are fewer moving parts in a Prius than in a Vehicross. No starter, no alternator, no slushbox, no transfer case, no second differential.

The Prius has its flaws. But it is the most environmentally friendly (new) car you can buy besides the Tesla Roadster.

Anyway, I digress.

Nate

[Ldub]

You wanna see smug? The Prius drivers have got nothing on me in the EV!

Foreign oil is the biggest problem our country faces. Wars are not fought over electricity.

The Prius has its flaws. But it is the most environmentally friendly (new) car you can buy besides the Tesla Roadster.

Anyway, I digress.

Nate

You did get the memo about smug not being a good thing, right?:smilewink

Also, you say wars are not fought over electricity?...I seem to recall a pretty good row between two dudes named Edison & Westinghouse. ( IIRC, Tesla & Kelvin were the corner men...can't remember the name of the ring girl):rotate:

[Bulldoggie]

You did get the memo about smug not being a good thing, right?:smilewink

Also, you say wars are not fought over electricity?...I seem to recall a pretty good row between two dudes named Edison & Westinghouse. ( IIRC, Tesla & Kelvin were the corner men...can't remember the name of the ring girl):rotate:

Ldub,
I always love your comments, they're great!
I think the War over electricity was fought on Wall St. and court rooms.
Very different kind of "smart" bombs, few if any were killed.

[nater]

LOL! I do know somebody who is more smug than me. He has TWO RAV4-EVs, and every month he gets a statement showing how much is owed by the Dept of Water and Power. His solar panels generate all of the electricity needed to run TWO cars (20,000 miles per year EACH), all of his household needs, and then some extra. The extra electricity he sells back to the utility, and they post a credit to his account. It's grown to a few thousand dollars over the years, but they refuse to send him a check.

Well, technically, he isn't smug, he's had an epiphany. He's also in the film "Who Killed the Electric Car."

I've had the same epiphany, but I'm still a little smug. It's kind of like when you first got a cell phone, and you have this epiphany that you can carry a PHONE in your pocket. But what if you had a cell phone, but nobody else did? Wouldn't you tell everyone you knew? Show it to them, let them try it out? Would a landline ever be the same? Sure, it has its downsides, like it has to be charged all the time, but, damn, it's cool.

Nate

[Ldub]

LOL! I do know somebody who is more smug than me. He has TWO RAV4-EVs, and every month he gets a statement showing how much is owed by the Dept of Water and Power. His solar panels generate all of the electricity needed to run TWO cars (20,000 miles per year EACH), all of his household needs, and then some extra. The extra electricity he sells back to the utility, and they post a credit to his account. It's grown to a few thousand dollars over the years, but they refuse to send him a check.

Well, technically, he isn't smug, he's had an epiphany. He's also in the film "Who Killed the Electric Car."

I've had the same epiphany, but I'm still a little smug. It's kind of like when you first got a cell phone, and you have this epiphany that you can carry a PHONE in your pocket. But what if you had a cell phone, but nobody else did? Wouldn't you tell everyone you knew? Show it to them, let them try it out? Would a landline ever be the same? Sure, it has its downsides, like it has to be charged all the time, but, damn, it's cool.

Nate

I spent a number of years "nearly off the grid"...but in a different way.
I got all my water from the gutter system on the house & out buildings, that all dumped into a 95000 gal cistern & supplied all house water & irrigated about 11 acres of coffee. (You can't imagine the things I've seen in there, thank God for filtration)
My solar water heat was circulated by a pump driven by a photovoltaic cell. I wasn't there long enough to implement a wind generator.

Alas, now I'm back to living in a town with the rest of the sheeple, but, believe it or don't, I still have no need for a cel phone (though I once had a job that required me to have one), haven't had any type of broadcast television since last September, though I do love a good Blu Ray movie or video game on my LCD flat panel & PS3.

Oh, I'm Soooo conflicted.:rolleyesg

Now, back to our regularly scheduled topic...please.:razzgray:

[Chopper]

Ldub,
I always love your comments, they're great!
I think the War over electricity was fought on Wall St. and court rooms.
Very different kind of "smart" bombs, few if any were killed.
Edison cooked an elephant to prove the inherant danger in Westinghouse's methods. We fry up humans the same way still