Transmission Gone Bye Bye

[rocket man]

Last nite she died!!! With a 162K I figured it was coming...so now what? When I start my search for an exchange unit what is a flat out swap? I've reviewed the threads on the subject and noticed there are different gear sets to the 4L30E. Which one do we have in the VX? I was in the biz back in the 70's and know, for example, the C-4 were widley used in FoMoCo stuff and were the same tranny in basic design but had many different bolt paterns on the Bell housing and different output shaft lengths, splines, extension housings, etc.

So the question, I guess, is:

Other than the VX 99-2001 anybody know what other car out there has a "mirror image" of our 4L30E?? In gear sets, bolt patterns, Torgue converter, bell housings.


Thanks in advance:bwgy:

John

John

[WiSDoM]

I had my tranny replaced two weeks ago with a tranny and transfer case from a 2000 isuzu trooper w/tod. their questions on the transfer case matching up but so far everything is great. go luck on your search. I used http://car-part.com/ to find mine. I paid 600.00 total with shipping 375.00 for tranny - 225.00 for shipping.

[rocket man]

Hey thanks for the info..You got the transfer case as a bonus too? :bwgr: That was a good price...found one here for tranny and transfer case for $825 its a 99 trooper..was your speed sensors still in the Transfer case? or did you use the sensors from your old unit?...You still have the old core?

Thanks again for the leasd...i'll checkem out

John

[WiSDoM]

I believe it came with it too. I will check tomorrow i still have my original tranny. the new tranny came with only 40,000 miles.

[rocket man]

WOW Wisdom uda MAN:p

Very good price from what I've been able to gleen, even from your site....

I'm not so concerned with being age consious (98-2001) as I am with mileage and I think the Troopers had a "on off" switch on the TOD on there 4wd and ours are automatic full time 4wd. That may have been different on the 2000 Trooper set up you put in. I know this has something to do with those fricken "speed sensors". IMO

Nevertheless, it seems the 98-2000 trooper with TOD is the same creature as our transmission. But, I'm just not sure yet about the little "on off switch" with the trooper trans and if that little difference creates an electrical nighmare and/or is not compatable with our TCU (transmission control unit). Anybody out there know???

I was having multiple issues with "tight corner braking" and trouble codes involving the speed sensors and have been dealing with this in previous posts for about 3 months now...All,these things are just plain and simply related to "old age". And resigned myself to a "when it stops moving"?? Guess it needs to be fixed mentality...

So that has happened...Now it seems that these outfits market the transmission, torque converter and T/Case as a package unit...So I can now visualize these multiple issues, I have been dealing with..... going away in a "push-pull-click-click fashion".

Or....so it says here in small print.....

So now my friends/members of this great website...I humbly ask for the sage advice of the geniusicles and guru's, who keep these cars on the road.... so I know what to put into my shopping cart :).

Thanks in advance...

John

[rocket man]

WOW Wisdom uda MAN:p

Very good price from what I've been able to gleen, even from your site....

I'm not so concerned with being age consious (98-2001) as I am with mileage and I think the Troopers had a "on off" switch on the TOD on there 4wd and ours are automatic full time 4wd. That may have been different on the 2000 Trooper set up you put in. I know this has something to do with those fricken "speed sensors". IMO

Nevertheless, it seems the 98-2000 trooper with TOD is the same creature as our transmission. But, I'm just not sure yet about the little "on off switch" with the trooper trans and if that little difference creates an electrical nighmare and/or is not compatable with our TCU (transmission control unit). Anybody out there know???

I was having multiple issues with "tight corner braking" and trouble codes involving the speed sensors and have been dealing with this in previous posts for about 3 months now...All,these things are just plain and simply related to "old age". And resigned myself to a "when it stops moving"?? Guess it needs to be fixed mentality...

So that has happened...Now it seems that these outfits market the transmission, torque converter and T/Case as a package unit...So I can now visualize these multiple issues, I have been dealing with..... going away in a "push-pull-click-click fashion".

Or....so it says here in small print.....

So now my friends/members of this great website...I humbly ask for the sage advice of the geniusicles and guru's, who keep these cars on the road.... so I know what to put into my shopping cart :).

Thanks in advance...

John

[WiSDoM]

yeah i had the same question too. i asked the local isuzu dealership tech and he said it will be fine. I don't have any problem with the TOD, but you can call merlin he should be able to cross reference the part numbers. yeah it was great price. i figured even if the transfer case doesn't work i will sell it on ebay heehehe and maybe see if i can sell my tranny as a core.

[WiSDoM]

you can just buy the tranny and use your transfer case

[rocket man]

No!! I want one like yours!!!! WISDOM:p

Trans and transfer cse. I think it'll be an easier install this way, anyway I was getting a blinking check lite on the TOD for months now. And kinda figured a different transfer case has different speed sensors...course the possibility exists that I could just exchange problems with some other guy with this method...but Ill take that chance.

Found one for $625+ $200 shipping..nothing like your deal, but I don't mind so much this price as I do the 89K on the drive train....I'll keep up the search...but so far thats the best I could scrounge

J

[WiSDoM]

it is still a good price my shop quoted me 3000.00 to rebuild and 4500.00 for a reman. i was lucky.

[LittleBeast]

$3800 complete rebuild and 4 year all inclusive warranty from Aamco. That is what I did.....

[rocket man]

Okay I located a transmission with transfer case yesterday in Salt Lake City from a crashed 1999 Trooper 2 w/TOD. I paid $400 for the pair and $150 shipping. It has 80K miles on it.

Seems like a lot of miles but considering mine has 162K on it, mileage wise its half as old as mine....now if it only works!! We'll see next week.

I have a mechanic friend who will do the install for 1/2 price ($300) book says its 6 1/2 hrs. r&r. I will help with the install.

I had an Aamco shop in the 70's and swore to myself I would never ever get that stinky ATF on me again. Yuck!! You sweat it out of your hands and fingers for days after!!

The Aamco package is a good deal. But , Aamco is pricey because they have a franchise fee and advertising pool equal to about 15% of gross (when I was with them, maybe more now). But there nationwide quarantee is there main strength and free towing. In my day we gave a "Car Ownership" guarantee but I guess they changed it to 4 years. What's the diff! If your going to have a tranny problem after a rebuild its gonna usually show up usually within 90 days. 80% of the "yoyo's" we had were leakers. Then about 10-15% were valve body, modulator, governor issues (electronic issues today probably), then 5-10% major component issues where we had to pull the unit out. Most would go bad in the first 6 months after the rebuild. I was in the biz for 5 years and can't recall a, "comeback" that was out there 4 years down the road. But $3800 ouch!!

I'll keep posted on future developments...

John

[rocket man]

Okay...Im on the road!!!:smilewink.

Everything works perfect, after a few starts and stops... I will elaborate on later.

Thanks to "Wisdom's" searching the [url]http://carparts.com and steered me to this website which proved to be the most effective. Also As I reported, I purchased a 1999 trooper 2, tranny and transfer case. Other websites searched were: Pamsautoparts.com and Cherryautoparts.com. were good too. They were very helpful and polite. Many of the web-seller's on Carparts.com were bonfide jerk's. But this website, I think, is by far the largest dealing with wrecking yards from all over the country.

It took about 3 days transport time to have the tranny shipped to LA via truck freight transport from Salt Lake City. BTW... most of the wrecking yards will only drop at a business, (not a residence), and it needs to have a forklift or, at least, a rolling cherry picker. I had mine delivered to my sons work and he fork lifted the tranny onto the back of his truck, the shipping weight of the tranny and t/case is 275lbs. it came on a pallet.

Note: This carparts.com website has, at the time I searched over more than 150 compatable transmissions..that ranged in price from $1400 to $200. Most are tranmissions only..... but a large percentage is together with the transfer case. I was already having a problem with the speed sensors on the t/c of my Proton, so I was trying to solve two problems, which I ended up doing.

Once we got the tranny to the shop we pulled the oil pans (valve body and shift solenoid). It looked good:bgwo: the oil was clear and off/red in color but not burned. This means it may have overheated slightly at one time or another, but no signs of unusual wear. Also it was a "tear out", meaning that the cooler lines had been sawed off and bent over. Beware, of the transmissions that have been neatly disconnected from all there fittings!! These usually don't work!

After arrival, I decided to install a front converter housing seal as this is the only possible leaking area of this transmission that if there is a leak anywhere on that trans, that's the only place it would require pulling it out to fix. The install took about 3 hrs and that was with one of the koolest transmission jack's I have ever worked with...much different than in the old days...Note: This is not the type of transmission you install "on your back" with jack stands..suggest here, if you do that to separate the tranny and t/c for this. The right side exhaust is a real pain too. Other than that it was a pretty straight forward R&R.

The front seal was aftermarket and was about the same price as the OEM, but decided to use the after market as the dealer (Vista Ford, Woodland Hills, CA) did not stock it and would have to order it (5 days delay)....so in the aftermarket seal went!!! It was different in that it was a "press fit seal" with a metal outer, while the OEM was a presss fit too, the(French) was rubber clad inside and out and had a retainer washer that "bolted" the seal to the case. (never seen one like that before).

Anyway, in it went and we oiled it up and took it out for a test drive.....perfect from the instant we put it in reverse and through all the gears...transfer case operation was the same...PERFECT:bgwb:

Got it back to the shop and put it on a lift to double check the fluid level and then!!!!!!!!!:eek::eek::eek:

Yep...that lousy aftermarket converter seal was leaking pretty good..So out she came and a 5 day turnaround wait for the stock part to come in...which we installed last thursday. BTW... cut the install down to about a 1 3/4 hours...we were smokin:p, right side exhauset is still a pain the rump.

Total cost was $550 tranny/transfer case shipped+$350 (labor and oil, oil filter and pan gaskets)+ front oil seal $27.36 Grand Total $927.36...Also the issues I had with the "tight corner braking" went away along with the old transfer case.

Also for those of you wishing do this:......... the transmission/transfer case on the Vehicross 1999-2001 is the same creature as the 1999-2001 Trooper "2". Also when you search the yards they will post something along these lines: 1999 (or 2000, or 2001) troooper 2 trans/w410. The "410" is an abbreviated version of the OEM part # for the transfer case. In many cases they list the transmission but do not mention that it INCLUDES the t/c. As it was in my particular case. In my case I just picked out a transmission offered on the list and started calling from cheapest to most expensive...I made about 20 calls. On a couple guys I wanted to reach into the phone and rip there throat out:mad: Pure idiots, I forgot what they know about transmissions and it pisses me when they try to crank my chain and I'm sure they do this to others who they think are less informed.

Anyway...Also I think in 1998 they had the same trans with 2 transfer case options..one with "torgue on demand" and one without...which is where the "on/off" switches, I heard about came to pass (I think). Also, In many cases they will post the mileage of the vehicle they took the transmission out of too. Mine had 80K.

I was surprised to see that there were about 20 VX transmissions one on the site too...one had 26K miles on it, was a Proton with a cracked bell housing, they wanted about $1000K but no t/c. The guy that owns the yard is wise guy...He thinks he has "one of kind there"

I think I'm gonna close out this long winded report, but I will leave by telling you that I was struck, in my junk yard search, in finding hundreds!! of transmissions on the internet that fit our car!! AND STILL WORK!!! But less than 20 3.5L engines on this SAME site!! This is spooky!!! What happened to all those engines in front of all those transmissions??...Also they want about $2500-$3500 for the engines.....Price is usually driven by supply...which in this case appears to be pretty meager...

John

[VXIRONwoMAN]

Wow! Thanks for all this usefule info! I know where to go if/when my tranny goes. Great thread!

[Solitude]

I still got 60,000 miles and 4 years left on my 10/100,000 limited pwrtrain warenty from isuzu.. or 1 more year when isuzu pulls out.. whichever comes first:eek:

[WiSDoM]

I feel for you maqn it is a trouble feeling riding in another vehicle other than your Vx. Good Luck buddy!!!!:bgwp:

[rocket man]

Hey Thanks:bwgy: Wisdom...your got me onto that site.

BTW this trans actually runs better than the old one. The old one used to down shift a tad early with a noticable "clunk" on the propeller shafts, when you come up to a stop light...this one is as slick as cat's snot on an ice flow:rolleyes:

So as they say, "I'm back in the saddle again"
and lovin it!!

John

[LittleBeast]

You are making me wish I had done the same. Especially since the VX has been in the shop for over 2 weeks now, because they failed to fix the trans leak from the coolant lines that I pointed out and had them"fix" the day I originally picked it up.

[rocket man]

Hello Littlebeast,

I followed your emails in February...and I'm sorry you are having to deal with such crap...especially from an Aamco repaired transmission.

In my day, my shop in Huntington Park, Ca, repaired about 1200 transmissions per year. Which translated into about 6000 rebuilts over the 5 year period I was in the biz and that's NOT counting "comebacks".

Albiet... 30 years ago...these lil creatures havn't changed too much....Yep...a lot more electronics...computer stuff and all that...yet when all is said and done they all operate under the basic principals of the transmission of the 50's and 60's.

As I said in an earlier post...NO MATTER WHO DOES IT!! Most "YOYO's" are leakers...You can call it a screw up in the rebuild process but is a plain fact of this biz.....Unfortunately, the oil in a transmission not only lubricates its interior moving components, but is also is the driving force that makes the car MOVE, both hydraulically (front pump and valve body) as well as dynamically(torque convertor) and finally it "cools" the transmission.

If you run it low on fluid to the point that you experience slipping, or wierd gear changes or behavior...you need to get it to a shop ASAP...Isuzu, in there infinite wisdom decided to omit the dipstick, so unless you stay on top of what's leaking on you garage floor, you might be in for a big surprise...

ATF is colored with a red additive that is designed to discolor, (I think around 400 degrees) At that point it will begin to turn amber, then brown, then coffee brown and then start to stink. Each of these phases tells a transmission mechanic what going on in your transmission.
I'am a big humongous believer in synthetic oil. It is designed to not, "shear" at 400+ high temperatures, course the costs are much higher. Synthetic oil I think has been around since WW2 in the superchargers of airplanes...there has to be a reason for this... right???

3 quarts low is pretty critical in a 10-12 quart system like the VX and there may have already been some damage done that has not manifested itself with an outright symtom...But, in any case, you have a warranty and Aamco will stand behind it. If they "jack" you around just call Customer Service in Williamsport Pa. Document everything...write a log ....also complain to the Better Business Bureau (they hate that!!!, because they have to write a letter back to the BBB) Also its a violation of there franchise agreement to not respond to a written complaint..

Remember these guys are private businessmen, they are not an employee of a company owned National chain...and because of that there are some "sleeze bags" that will screw you in a heart-beat...but for the most part they are good guys...combacks are just part of the biz...

As for my way being better than yours??? I don't think one is right or wrong... To me it was a matter of prospective and economics...Whats our car worth running in perfect condition??? $7-10K???...now add the fact that my car has 160,000 miles on the drivetrain....is it worth a $3000 transmission? For me...no... just Prospective and economics:p

Keep me posted....email me if you feel your not being treated fairly..

John

[LittleBeast]

Hello Littlebeast,

I followed your emails in February...and I'm sorry you are having to deal with such crap...especially from an Aamco repaired transmission.

As for my way being better than yours??? I don't think one is right or wrong... To me it was a matter of prospective and economics...Whats our car worth running in perfect condition??? $7-10K???...now add the fact that my car has 160,000 miles on the drivetrain....is it worth a $3000 transmission? For me...no... just Prospective and economics:p

Keep me posted....email me if you feel your not being treated fairly..

John

I really appreciate your input and I will definitely keep you updated, thanks.

[rocket man]

Absolutley no problem:)

[Trudy Carp]

My parts guy @ Isuzu in Denver gave me the bad news last week. Seems their vehicle sales are in the toilet so they're pulling out. They will still maintain parts & warrenty work, but no new vehicle sales anymore. The only
profitable sector is the stuff they do for GM, Canyons, Colorados, Trailblazers, and DuraMax diesels. Their cargo delivery vehicles will still be sold through the Heavy truck dealers. So, Tynan's VW & Isuzu will eventually be called Tynan's VW & Isuzu Parts. Sad to see them go, but when they discontinued the Trooper & Rodeo it was only a matter of time.