Now this rocks!

[Joe_Black]

While I'm not a particular fan of hybrids (too "stop gap" in my opinion) this is a way better angle considering diesel's greater fuel efficiency (75% vs. 25% for gas) and the ability to run biodiesel completely negates the use of any petroleum-based fuels:


Coming Soon from VW: A 69.9 MPG Diesel Hybrid
By Chuck Squatriglia February 28, 2008 | 10:04:10 AMCategories: Diesel, Geneva Motor Show, Hybrids

It's official - Volkswagen is unveiling a hybrid to challenge the mighty Toyota Prius. And not just any hybrid, but a diesel-electric hybrid it says will deliver 69.9 mpg.

VW's been experimenting with hybrids of the gasoline-electric variety since the early 1990s, but the Golf hybrid it will unveil next month at the Geneva Motor Show is the first production model the German company's rolled out. Volkswagen isn't offering much in the way of details, but the car is expected to have a parallel hybrid drivetrain with a 2.0 liter engine. Look for it to have an all-electric mode at low speed, start-stop capability, regenerative braking and a 7-speed DSG double-clutch transmission, according to Auto Express and AutoBlog Green.

What's all the techno-jargon mean? The Golf Hybrid will get almost 70 mph while meeting Europe's stringent Euro V and America's Tier 2 Bin 5 emissions standards, making it green enough even for California. The car is said to emit just 89 g/km of CO2. (For comparison, the Prius emits 104 g/km and Honda Civic Hybrid emits 116.)

The hybrid Golf may be just the start.

According to Britain's Channel 4, VW is considering the hybrid drivetrain in a Jetta and Audi A3. DailyTech says it also could appear in the VW Tiguan and Audi Q5 crossover utility vehicles.

Auto Express says the Golf hybrid will be offered for sale in Europe by the end of next year. No word yet on when we might see it on this side of the pond.


What's especially interesting from a historical perspective is that Ferdinand Porsche, the founder of Volkswagen, created the first hybrid car in 1901!

http://www.autohistory.org/feature_6_kelly_1.jpg

[nfpgasmask]

Sounds cool, but I am sure it will be fugly. I don't care for any of the current or recent VW designs....but with that many MPG, the look is negligible...

Bart

[Dumke]

Sounds cool, but I am sure it will be fugly. I don't care for any of the current or recent VW designs....but with that many MPG, the look is negligible...

Bart



BITE YOUR TONGUE.... lol. actually doesnt look that bad. i saw it on yahoo and looke dlike a golf but things can change. Best looking Hybrid car is the Civic. Looks just like one. Friend of mine has one. Course now Lexus has its hand in the pot as well comming out with a few hybrids.

[mbeach]

VW is up here right now doing cold weather testing of its new designs.
I've seen some funky vehicles running around town -the badges are off of the trunks, but they are unmistakably VW cars.

I've been keeping my camera in the truck in case I see anything really unusual.

[snowtrooper1966]

Hey,
Up here in Mammoth we get manufacturers testing cloaked and debadged vehicles all the time. Guess it would not be a bad idea to keep a camera in the Dragon....
James

[Joe_Black]

Sounds cool, but I am sure it will be fugly. I don't care for any of the current or recent VW designs....but with that many MPG, the look is negligible...

Bart

My "fugly" '06 Jetta TDI has kinda grown on me, especially the 54MPG part. :bwgy:

[nfpgasmask]

I'm sorry, I just haven't seen anything new these days that peaks my interest visually. Most new vehicles (save for the ultra-expensive exotics) are just so boring looking. I mean, there are "nice" looking cars and trucks out there, but there are basically no new vehicles that I think look cool or different. I can honestly say, that best looking vehicle I have seen in the last 10 years is indeed the VehiCROSS. There just aren't a lot of cool looking cars in an affordable price range. Nothing Mercedes, BMW, VW, Lexus, Toyota, Honda, etc has made even slightly excites me. To me, its outward appearance first, then whats under the hood. People always rave over the Mercedes and BMWs, and I am sure they are extra nice, perform well, etc, etc, but I just think they are ALL so damn ugly. But I have a very extreme opinion about what looks cool. I think there are some vehicles that you can MAKE look cool, but as far as stock vehicles, they all suck pretty hard to me.

Bart

[JHarris1385]

I read up on this car now....what is the suggested asking price?


Bart - I like the Infinity fx45 - i have been told the same designer of the vx worked on it too as well as the 350z

[Dumke]

Bart I was mearly playing. Hey we are all intiled to our own opinion but shouldnt you keep it to yourself??


..... Again Kidding.


ya the old boxy lookin dubs I dont like so much 2bh. I did like the jetta before the new body style came out. Course that is body style I had. Like joe said tho new one has grown on me.


But yes you are correct VX looks the best and that is why I own one.

[nfpgasmask]

Bart I was mearly playing. Hey we are all intiled to our own opinion but shouldnt you keep it to yourself??

..... Again Kidding.

ya the old boxy lookin dubs I dont like so much 2bh. I did like the jetta before the new body style came out. Course that is body style I had. Like joe said tho new one has grown on me.

But yes you are correct VX looks the best and that is why I own one.

Oh I know, sorry if I sounded to serious...

:) Bart

[Ldub]

I dunno...somehow, in my mind, hybrid & rocks don't belong in the same scentence.

[Joe_Black]

No complaints Bart, just teasing a bit. ;) The Jetta certainly isn't a head-turner but it isn't repulsive either, and what I like most is the interior and layout. It is a fun car to drive, absolutely no torque-steer and gobs of GO. If it weren't for the traction control I'd be on my third set of front tires by now! :p After monkeying with the Mercedes diesels the decision with this car was simply to get something new for me to use as a daily driver for my job as I travel to 36 different locations, whereas my wife takes the VX about 12 miles each day.

As has been put forth time and time again here in the forums, being a VX owner really makes apparent how cookie-cutter the majority of vehicles are. When I usually find a new model visually interesting it's not more than a few weeks before I see one at every intersection. Here in central Florida you can't drive more than half a mile without seeing an FJ for example! :rolleyes:

In any case, just thought to share the info as it's technically interesting and could open the door for more efficient designs and further movement away from gasoline.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

I'm pretty much not sold on the gas-hybrid avenue as far as out right buying one. I think that they might be better for someone to lease (2-3 years) when taking the battery replacement costs down the road into consideration.

I keep thinking I might go the VW Jetta TDI diesel route as I know a friend with the pre-TDI diesel in a bug that gets like 50+ miles per gallon to work. Plus, I love my Kubota GR2100 diesel AWD tractor...:p

My only concern here though is the high cost of diesel...especially during the home heating season as it seems like demand is intertwined with home heating oil & therefore both go up alot during the winter months.

[Chopper]

I'm pretty much not sold on the gas-hybrid avenue as far as out right buying one. I think that they might be better for someone to lease (2-3 years) when taking the battery replacement costs down the road into consideration.

I keep thinking I might go the VW Jetta TDI diesel route as I know a friend with the pre-TDI diesel in a bug that gets like 50+ miles per gallon to work. Plus, I love my Kubota GR2100 diesel AWD tractor...:p

My only concern here though is the high cost of diesel...especially during the home heating season as it seems like demand is intertwined with home heating oil & therefore both go up alot during the winter months.I once bought 50 gallons of diesel to heat a house that'd run out of oil in the winter, on the weekend. Pretty much the same stuff.

[Joe_Black]

My only concern here though is the high cost of diesel.
I get that comment a lot. My standard response now is "what's the difference between diesel and regular gas price, and would you pay that much more per gallon to make your current vehicle go 54 MPG?". Then I watch the lightbulb go on over their head when it all comes together. :bwgy:

[Bulldoggie]

I once bought 50 gallons of diesel to heat a house that'd run out of oil in the winter, on the weekend. Pretty much the same stuff.


They are both #2 diesel

home oil is less, no road tax figured in.

With the problems of in-ground tanks leaking, if you heat your home with oil,
you could easily add a valve to a tank near your garage and buy tax free bulk rate diesel for your VW. farmers do it all the time for their tractors.

A good fuel additive for moisture is helpful, about 2 oz. per tank.

[Chopper]

They are both #2 diesel

home oil is less, no road tax figured in.

With the problems of in-ground tanks leaking, if you heat your home with oil,
you could easily add a valve to a tank near your garage and buy tax free bulk rate diesel for your VW. farmers do it all the time for their tractors.

A good fuel additive for moisture is helpful, about 2 oz. per tank.

Sure, I can siphon off the reefer fuel...same deal. Do not get caught with the wrong colour fuel in your tank! Problem for class 8 guys more than commuters, but really expensive if you get caught.

[Bulldoggie]

Sure, I can siphon off the reefer fuel...same deal. Do not get caught with the wrong colour fuel in your tank! Problem for class 8 guys more than commuters, but really expensive if you get caught.


I said a person "could".
I would never tell anyone to avoid taxes, or break the law :bgwo: :rolleyes:

The farmers have to sign waivers, that state they will not use on public roadways.

I used to deliver the stuff, and we used to fill our trucks fuel tanks directly from the delivery tank hose.

[kpaske]

I'm with Joe on this one. I bought an '06.5 Jetta TDI and absolutely love it. Of course, Joe must drive like an old granny to get 54 MPG because I'm lucky to see 40, or maybe 45 if I'm really conservative! (And I don't even need to run the A/C up here in the PNW!) Of course that $206 ticket I got the other day might slow me down for a little while... :mad:

Either way, like others have said, the price of diesel fluctuates seasonally, but even at it's highest prices you still get significantly better fuel mileage, and the availability of biodiesel is getting better every year.

Some may not be impressed with the Jetta's outward appearance, but there are certainly thing you can do to make them look nicer (like upgraded wheels and replacing or painting over the fugly chrome grill trim). The optional leather interior, sunroof, and NAV systems makes my boring commuter feel like a luxury car, at half the cost of a BMW or Mercedes. And the upgraded sound system isn't half bad either, and includes a 6 disk CD changer and iPod adapter. Maybe I'm just getting old, but these days when I spend half my day stuck in traffic, I care a lot less about the external look than the interior experience.

If this diesel hybrid comes in a Jetta or Passat, I would buy one for sure. ;Db;

[Joe_Black]

Of course, Joe must drive like an old granny to get 54 MPG because I'm lucky to see 40, or maybe 45 if I'm really conservative!
Yeah, I kinda do take it easy but around town it's more like 40 MPG as I have some fun with it. I think the real key was getting the RPM range nailed down as the power drops off after 3500 RPM so usually I shift at 3000, and the engine is really happy at 2000 RPM for cruise. One thing I've noted in talking with other TDI owners is that there's a fair variance on experienced average mileage, much like here with the VX. I think I'm at the upper end as I haven't heard anyone getting better than 56 MPG out of a Mk5 Jetta.

[Chopper]

Yeah, I kinda do take it easy but around town it's more like 40 MPG as I have some fun with it. I think the real key was getting the RPM range nailed down as the power drops off after 3500 RPM so usually I shift at 3000, and the engine is really happy at 2000 RPM for cruise. One thing I've noted in talking with other TDI owners is that there's a fair variance on experienced average mileage, much like here with the VX. I think I'm at the upper end as I haven't heard anyone getting better than 56 MPG out of a Mk5 Jetta. Just like driving a 3406....Progressive shift, never downshift, roll easy.....10-12 mpg.. Gazz on it...5mpg.

[Joe_Black]

LOL, I'll bring my Transtar over one day and take you for a ride to see how I get 8 MPG out of an 8V71 with an RTO-915 and never touching the clutch! :bwgy: Oh, no power steering and no front brakes.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

and the availability of biodiesel is getting better every year.



True, they even just built a new biodiesel plant in Erie, Pa close to where I work; but, I am assuming that if you run this stuff in a newer vehicle you probably would void your warranty as well as possibly cause problems?

I see this biodiesel alternative as being a good choice for an older car; as I've seen Joe Black mention before; but I'm not so sure about its use in a newer vehicle?

[Ldub]

True, they even just built a new biodiesel plant in Erie, Pa close to where I work; but, I am assuming that if you run this stuff in a newer vehicle you probably would void your warranty as well as possibly cause problems?

I see this biodiesel alternative as being a good choice for an older car; as I've seen Joe Black mention before; but I'm not so sure about its use in a newer vehicle?

I may be WOB here, but I just read somewhere that biodiesel puts more gunk (an industry term) into the atmosphere than dino...any opinions on that?

[johnnyapollo]

Biodiesel is actually "cleaner" burning than most of the diesel you see rated for street use. The problem comes in the manufacturing cycles - if you're doing it at home with free, spent waste oil there isn't much environmental impact. If you're growing crops to create the oils that are turned into Biodiesel, then there's quite a bit of impact and that won't go away until efficiencies are built into the system. There's been a bit about this online but it's hard to separate the truth from the smear. If we could focus on it for a bit as an industrial nation, I'm sure an efficient, relatively "green" production method could be devised but also I'm not sure if we'll ever get to that point.

-- John

[Joe_Black]

As John mentions there's quite a bit to look at for the various impacts for growing additional crops for biofuels, but basically it boils down to developing effective new stnadards for this emerging industry. Diesel in general has different emissions than gasoline, with its main nasty emission being mono-nitrogen oxides which contribute to acid rain. Diesel emissions are commonly about twice that of gasoline, but most people fail to realize that diesel delivers three times the energy of an equivalent volume of gasoline meaning it actually nets less. Again, government at work. :rolleyes:

Another misunderstanding about biodiesel among most is its confusion with vegetable oil, either in straight (SVO) or waste (WVO) source-stocks. Biodiesel is a fuel processed from vegetable oil and is 100% compatible with all diesel engines, whereas vegetable oil works best in older vehicles (generally pre-1987) using mechanical indirect injection. It can be run in newer engines but requires a two-tank system where you start and shut down the engine on diesel, running the rest of the time on vegetable oil. An interesting thing happens when you run a diesel on vegetable oil, the distinctive "clatter" goes away. Then again, Rudolph Diesel designed it to run on vegetable oil to begin with. ;)

Ironically the biggest hindrance to the alternative fuel industry is that there are simply so many alternatives. The general public finds it far easier to pony up $$$ at the pump rather than learn what's out there and sort through all the hype and hyperbole.

[Ldub]

Thanks for shedding more light on this, I no doubt read that somewhere on the net, but don't remember where.

[Chopper]

Just saw a thing on "Speed" this morning, about some outfit that has cracked the Ethanol code, and are making it from any organic material.....hay to old tires and doing it cheaply! They were promptly bought up by GM. Drive my Hydrogen car to work, and I still got something to run my "Rod" on. Screw an Arab!! That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!

[Joe_Black]

How about methane? Check this little tidbit of news out and then let your mind wander through the possibilities...


Famed geneticist creating life form that turns CO2 to fuel
Thu Feb 28, 3:57 PM ET

A scientist who mapped his genome and the genetic diversity of the oceans said Thursday he is creating a life form that feeds on climate-ruining carbon dioxide to produce fuel.

Geneticist Craig Venter disclosed his potentially world-changing "fourth-generation fuel" project at an elite Technology, Entertainment and Design conference in Monterey, California.

"We have modest goals of replacing the whole petrochemical industry and becoming a major source of energy," Venter told an audience that included global warming fighter Al Gore and Google co-founder Larry Page.

"We think we will have fourth-generation fuels in about 18 months, with CO2 as the fuel stock."

Simple organisms can be genetically re-engineered to produce vaccines or octane-based fuels as waste, according to Venter.

Biofuel alternatives to oil are third-generation. The next step is life forms that feed on CO2 and give off fuel such as methane gas as waste, according to Venter.

"We have 20 million genes which I call the design components of the future," Venter said. "We are limited here only by our imagination."

His team is using synthetic chromosomes to modify organisms that already exist, not making new life, he said. Organisms already exist that produce octane, but not in amounts needed to be a fuel supply.

"If they could produce things on the scale we need, this would be a methane planet," Venter said. "The scale is what is critical; which is why we need to genetically design them."

The genetics of octane-producing organisms can be tinkered with to increase the amount of CO2 they eat and octane they excrete, according to Venter.

The limiting part of the equation isn't designing an organism, it's the difficulty of extracting high concentrations of CO2 from the air to feed the organisms, the scientist said in answer to a question from Page.

Scientists put "suicide genes" into their living creations so that if they escape the lab, they can be triggered to kill themselves.

Venter said he is also working on organisms that make vaccines for the flu and other illnesses.

"We will see an exponential change in the pace of the sophistication of organisms and what they can do," Venter said.

"We are a ways away from designing people. Our goal is just to make sure they survive long enough to do that."