next mod: Helix Throttle Body Spacer

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

I actually have 2 new mods Ill be offering:
MSD Dash Hawk (plug and play for all VXs) and our
HELIX Throttle Body Spacers

Ive been selling these out of my shop for a few yrs
now

http://www.streetandperformanceelectronics.com/hptp.htm

for a variety of cars and suvs
Customers repsonse has always been good.
For the $ (about $120) they seem like a well worth mod.
Their patented design seems to be the one asked for by name.
I sent them an extra throttle body I had here so they could
mock up a test piece.
Ill have it in a few days and when I get it Ill post up a few pics
of the before during and after install.
And to help check the workings of it all Im going to be using this
item from MSD.

http://www.dashhawk.com/

I may have time to actually take my VX to the track this weekend
and get a 1/4 mile base time too as it sits with the muffler and
Green drop in filter anyway.
And then maybe try to get a time after for more accurate results.
Seat of the pants feel, mpg etc too.

keep you posted
thanks
Dayle

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

and one more thing, anyone with a mid yr or late 2000
or 01 VX I may need a favor from you.
I may need you to take some pics of your throttle body
at a few angles so I can see what if any differences are
between yours and the 99-00 VXs
thanks.

[johnnyapollo]

As far as I know there shouldn't be any difference in TBs between the years.

Sorry to be controversial, but I don't see how that spacer is supposed to do anything other than restrict air-flow, as it's actually occuplying mores space than the solid "circle" of the TB - I don't see any real-world, measurable results so please post some if you have access to any - sounds like magic-fairy-dust-voodoo to me.

-- John

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

this is not a racing device, this is for the daily
driver, one
that would need better throttle response,
drivability and fuel
economy. with our patented design we have
increased the air flow
at the intake manifold port 3-8%, thus more air
enters the engine
at low engine speed. the increased air volume is
detected by the
heated oygen sensor and readjusts the fuel mix to
a specified ratio.
more air in, more mid power, less foot pressure to
obtain 20-60hp
needed to keep a vehicle at speed. the less foot
pressure is
using less air, thus using less fuel with the same
power output.
yes the thickness of the spacer is increasing the
manifold plenum
volume, but its the throttle body spacer design
that allows the
more efficient air delivery to the intake port.
smooth bore spacers
do not promote this type of action and thats why
we say not all
throttle body spacers are the same.

On top of that all, honestly I was skeptical about them too
myself until I started selling them and customers came
back raving about them and their friends come back and ask
for them by name because of how much they like them.
So customer feedback has been overwhelming for the last
2 yrs on them. :)

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

As far as I know there shouldn't be any difference in TBs between the years.


-- John

as far as difference, according to the dealer mid yr 2000
they changed the placement of I think the aic sensor on top
and thats what Im looking into.

[Chopper]

People buy the "Turbonator" and swear by it too. I don't see how stretching the intake length is gonna increase airflow. No decrease in airflow restriction, nothing pumping more air....it's nonsense. Wait!!! I need some magnets for my fuel line....there's one born every 16.345 seconds:p

[TheUltimateMan]

Well I think it sounds interesting! It could be nothing but a noisemaker, but I'm optimistic for you...

Let us know how everything works when it get's installed, then you can shut all these jealous naysayers up :bgwg:

[etlsport]

more air in, more mid power, less foot pressure to
obtain 20-60hp
needed to keep a vehicle at speed. the less foot
pressure is
using less air

so does it make the vx use less air or more air?

[Ldub]

Wait!!! I need some magnets for my fuel line....there's one born every 16.345 seconds:p

Don't be hatin' on the fuel line magnets Chopper...I've had some for over two years & the "art" on my fridge hasn't gotten ANY closer to the floor.:rolleyesg

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

Well I think it sounds interesting! It could be nothing but a noisemaker, but I'm optimistic for you...

Let us know how everything works when it get's installed, then you can shut all these jealous naysayers up :bgwg:


my customers who have them in their other types of vehicles
have all been happy, so Im optimistic.
Its a shame so many people are so negative towards it
I guess it will take a few of owners to try it to prove or
not prove what its capable of. ;)

[Hotsauce]

Show us your dyno charts to support your claims please.

ECU reset between each run for consistancy

John C.

[Chopper]

It ain't negativity....it's science. You give it a whirl. Good luck:rolleyes:

[Chopper]

Don't be hatin' on the fuel line magnets Chopper...I've had some for over two years & the "art" on my fridge hasn't gotten ANY closer to the floor.:rolleyesg What did you end up doing with the electric, rust preventer?...when you're not using it to prevent rust?:smilewink

[etlsport]

What did you end up doing with the electric, rust preventer?...when you're not using it to prevent rust?:smilewink

come on chop.. its for tightening up the abs with electric pulses

AZ - all in good fun......i dont know much about this mod, curious to see how the dyno numbers (or 1/4 mile times) come back

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

they have plenty of dyno charts from other applications
on their site
(helix's site) Street and Performance...
anywhere from 8-28 hp depending on vehicle
so even if our cars got 5-8 hp, which is very plausable
then imho its worth the $. If we got more, great.

Plus anyone who believes in a product, just because of the
dyno sheet and not there to monitor how it was done, is kidding
themselves.
Personally, I test my stuff, on the street against an actual
other vehicle.
4 races, 2 prior to the part installed
2 after.. racing the same car. Both autos and similar in
size, motor etc.
And see what the end results are on the street (or frontage
rd in our case).
It either that or take it to the track for some passes before
and after. Which makes more sense and are actual results.

I dont offer parts I dont personally try and or have tried or believe in.

[Hotsauce]

If the theory worked you'd see the same thing installed in new vehicles by the original mfg.

There is no similar device on ANY new car today.

In fact, the opposite is true. BMW has eliminated the throttle body entirely on their higher end cars because the turbulence of the butterfly and shaft decreased effeciency.

John C.

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

If the theory worked you'd see the same thing installed in new vehicles by the original mfg.

There is no similar device on ANY new car today.

In fact, the opposite is true. BMW has eliminated the throttle body entirely on their higher end cars because the turbulence of the butterfly and shaft decreased effeciency.

John C.


Who says ? there are lots of cool products they factory
could offer and dont on every car..
abs brakes, 4 wheels disc, headers, etc....you dont see those
on all cars. myth busted, sorry.

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

so does it make the vx use less air or more air?

and to answer your question,
it would use less air and fuel, making the same power.
at 70mph a vehicle only need 20-70rwhp. 70mph is
about
2000-2200rpm. thats approx 100cfm needed to run
this
speed. but since the VE (volume efficiency) is low
because of low air speed the promotion of more air
flow by volume and velocity is what makes up for
the
lack of without the device. ;)

[kpaske]

My trusted advisor from the psychic friends network said I should get one and not listen to all this science rubish. Where do I send my payment? :rolleyes:

[johnnyapollo]

So let's see, this is what is known:

Supercharger: more air + more fuel = more power
Turbocharger: more air + more fuel = more power

And this is what the Helix is supposed to do:
Helix TB spacer: less air + less fuel = same power

For some reason the math doesn't work for me - in fact the TB spacer seems quite contrary to my understanding of physics and fluid dynamics. But what do I know?

-- John

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

Got the first unit back from the manufacturer...
should be installing it this week if I get the time.
I go thru life a little more optimistically then some
people I guess :)

[CoastieCosta567]

looks pretty sexy to me. hey AZ i understand exactly what you are trying to do, not on the scince level though, but on trying to save fuel for all of us, and i think thats awsome, and i'm very happy and thankful you are here and you are trying to make the VX a better vehical to fit on todays expansive fuel world. So thank you, and i hope your theory works, cuz if so, i'll be one of the first to buy and if it don't, then i'll buy it just for looks, j/k. but really thanks bro, and keep up the great work.:bgwo:

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

looks pretty sexy to me. hey AZ i understand exactly what you are trying to do, not on the scince level though, but on trying to save fuel for all of us, and i think thats awsome, and i'm very happy and thankful you are here and you are trying to make the VX a better vehical to fit on todays expansive fuel world. So thank you, and i hope your theory works, cuz if so, i'll be one of the first to buy and if it don't, then i'll buy it just for looks, j/k. but really thanks bro, and keep up the great work.:bgwo:

thanks, really needed to hear that.
Because thats exactly what Im trying to do, for all of us.
Im not just in it for the $ by any means. But since I own one
of these beast too, it helps me just as much as everyone if it
pans out.
I had to aquire an extra TB to send to the manufacturer to even
get them to make me a Demo pcs.
Ive been keeping great track of my mpg since I bought my Vx a few
months ago, and keeping it also with each mod done, letting a few
weeks pass before another mod was done.
We've been using the AC already here in the last few weeks too, so
thats affecting mpg too of course.
Either way, thanks again for the kudos (haha) and Ill keep anyone truely
interested in our results informed on this thread :)

[orion]

I've got a few friends that have spacers (GM and fords), all have seen no loss or a slight increase in MPG. and one, a mustang, got a increase of 6HP average over 3 dyno runs. the others, i don't know, they didn't dyno. so if you sell them, I'm getting one.

[rowhard]

Well, AZ, not to say you would skew the results of your numbers to sell a few of these. So, you might consider making one of these available to one of the skeptics here to run side by side test with you. I know, if it worked, I certainly would be interested in buying one from you.

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

I've got a few friends that have spacers (GM and fords), all have seen no loss or a slight increase in MPG. and one, a mustang, got a increase of 6HP average over 3 dyno runs. the others, i don't know, they didn't dyno. so if you sell them, I'm getting one.

Ill have some in in about a week
if you buy one, and you can give us your results if you
choose. And we can compare your results to mine too
just for kicks.
Keep in mind we are already in 80+ degree weather and at
2400 feet above sea level, so our results may differ.

[johnnyapollo]

I'd offer mine up with a dyno run before and after, but with the Supercharger the results won't be conclusive. It needs to be a stock or near stock VX, with before and after dyno runs to show a real-world benefit (or not).

-- John

[JHarris1385]

I would buy one as well if it was worth it.

[etlsport]

how hard is the install going to be on this? i plan on taking my more or less stock VX to a track in late may for some 1/4 mile times and such, id be curious to get like 3 runs in without it and 3 runs with it to see if it would make any difference, so would i be able to install this at the track with some hand tools and a mechanical sense?

[Solitude]

will the MAF be effected..and will that effect the computer? I live in phoenix.. so.. maybe I can be of assistance.. one thing though.. My 01 VX was built in july of 2000..think it was the last runs of them

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

Its a pretty simple bolt on, should take less then
an hour with basic hand tools.
Everything is up front and easy to get to lucky for us.
Only trick will be to adjust the 2 cables going to the throttle
body, which wont be a problem.
Ive installed these things on mustangs, tahoes, hummers and
hondas. None have been a problem, all have been a success.
Once I empty this tank of gas, Im going to install mine on my
personal Vx.
Also, one of my employees has an awd Svx.
We have raced a few times, all are very accurate since
both vehicles are autos and awd.
I plan on seeing how the Vx does before and after the install.
That to me is real life results. (dyno test are good for nascar
guys) :)

[mbeach]

A few years ago I used a couple of TB gaskets as a template to bang out a throttle body spacer in 6061.

It wasn't because I believed the hype, it was more a matter of it being an easy and fun project.
After installation, adjusting cables/brackets, etc., I decided that it was not worth the effort to either manufacture or install. It did nothing for driveablity, mileage, power or otherwise. I used that leftover scrap to make a nice battery hold-down.

Granted, mine was the product of 45 minutes on a mill, with zero testing or prototyping. It also didn't look 1/10th as pretty as the model you're showing. If I were looking for a bit of underhood bling, it might make it on my list. It is a nice piece of work.

No one's ever proven that these things perform, but they sure look nice -and sometimes that's enough.

You want a faster truck? Ditch those heavy wheels and tires - you'd be amazed.

[Chopper]

You want a faster truck? Ditch those heavy wheels and tires - you'd be amazed. The Gods love less unsprung weight

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

A few years ago I used a couple of TB gaskets as a template to bang out a throttle body spacer in 6061.

It wasn't because I believed the hype, it was more a matter of it being an easy and fun project.
After installation, adjusting cables/brackets, etc., I decided that it was not worth the effort to either manufacture or install. It did nothing for driveablity, mileage, power or otherwise. I used that leftover scrap to make a nice battery hold-down.

Granted, mine was the product of 45 minutes on a mill, with zero testing or prototyping. It also didn't look 1/10th as pretty as the model you're showing. If I were looking for a bit of underhood bling, it might make it on my list. It is a nice piece of work.

No one's ever proven that these things perform, but they sure look nice -and sometimes that's enough.

You want a faster truck? Ditch those heavy wheels and tires - you'd be amazed.


Fust FYI
I weighed the 17" Cepek rims against
my stock heavy then expected 16" rims
they only weigh 2 lbs more each wheel :smilewink

[JHarris1385]

What does the stock wheel weigh? Or stock wheel/tire combo weigh? 18's that is.

[Triathlete]

Also, one of my employees has an awd Svx.
We have raced a few times, all are very accurate since
both vehicles are autos and awd.
I plan on seeing how the Vx does before and after the install.
That to me is real life results. (dyno test are good for nascar
guys) :)

Not trying to burst your bubble, but...
Unless you and he can replicate the exact same conditions (temp, wind, etc.) and reaction times racing as a test means moot!

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

What does the stock wheel weigh? Or stock wheel/tire combo weigh? 18's that is.


My truck had 16" stock.

honestly, I Never thought Id see suggest negative comments
from people who own the same cars.
At this point, I really dont care who buys it or not,
really.

Its funny though to see the ones who always have
something negative to say, are never the ones bringing
anything to the game.

At least Im trying to help owners who want help.
To those who just like to knock stuff and are backseat
engineers, I really dont care what you do.

As for our car against car race, it would just to be as
some sort of guideline to compare results.
The races would be 3 in a row, one after another, same conditions.
Its not Nasa and not Nascar, its more for fun to get
a idea of how much of a difference if any it could be.

[mbeach]

honestly, I Never thought Id see suggest negative comments
from people who own the same cars.
At this point, I really dont care who buys it or not,
really.
Like I said, it's a showpiece, without a dyno chart, it's still just bling. Which doesn't appeal to everyone.



Its funny though to see the ones who always have
something negative to say, are never the ones bringing
anything to the game.
...or selling anything



-The Backseat Engineer

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

Like I said, it's a showpiece, without a dyno chart, it's still just bling. Which doesn't appeal to everyone.


...or selling anything



-The Backseat Engineer

Your opinion doesnt make it fact
They dyno all their units in house, they all make
HP, theres no reason it wouldnt make HP on our vehicles.
Thats Fact, not opinion.

Not sure what "bling" you see in this part, since you barely
even see it once installed.
Sorry you find something wrong with me actually selling something
but thats how I make a living.
And trust me, Im not getting rich on these even when I do
sell them here or locally to other customers.
You make it out to my main goal is to just make a living.
My goals seem to be in question here, so let me lay it out for you
since you seem to know me.
My main goal is to help other VX owners find good quaility items for
their vehicles. Parts not readily available for such a rare vehicle.
If the process I get to try and test stuff for my own Vx, while others
who own them, possible get parts that never existed.
In the process if we actually make a few bucks the old fashion way
of free enterprise, so be it. Thats sort of what this country was built
on last time I checked.
If that bothers you, then maybe dont respond to the thread.

[CoastieCosta567]

AZ I agree with you, I know what you are doing, and i'll say it again, thank you. You keep up the good work, and don't pay attention to the negativity. I just don't simply understand why poeple in this world, includding in this site like to step on other people. I would understand if you showed no intrest to us whats so ever, But i know you care and thats all that matters. Agian Thank You. And for those that Just plain simply like to slap the docter for trying, just remeber what your mamas said when you where young, " if you don't have anything good to say, Don't say anything at all". AZ Good Job Bro.
And I still Love everybody here:flower:, not talking sides, just being real and honest.:bgwg: So lets just all get along :group: .

[Ldub]

Your opinion doesnt make it fact
They dyno all their units in house, they all make
HP, theres no reason it wouldnt make HP on our vehicles.
Thats Fact, not opinion.

Not sure what "bling" you see in this part, since you barely
even see it once installed.
Sorry you find something wrong with me actually selling something
but thats how I make a living.
And trust me, Im not getting rich on these even when I do
sell them here or locally to other customers.
You make it out to my main goal is to just make a living.
My goals seem to be in question here, so let me lay it out for you
since you seem to know me.
My main goal is to help other VX owners find good quaility items for
their vehicles. Parts not readily available for such a rare vehicle.
If the process I get to try and test stuff for my own Vx, while others
who own them, possible get parts that never existed.
In the process if we actually make a few bucks the old fashion way
of free enterprise, so be it. Thats sort of what this country was built
on last time I checked.
If that bothers you, then maybe dont respond to the thread.

Don't take it too personal AZ, some of us "older fellas" been turnin' wrenches on this or that for 30-40 yrs.
Seen a lot of engineering fads come & go in that amount of time...that kind of experience breeds skepticism...simple as that.
You want to see an example of what I'm talkin' about, try to find Naoki's webpage (maybe someone will post a link), I don't think there is an accessory made, bogus or not, that he hasn't hung on his VX.
He has magnets all over the place to "straighten" electrons or something...it's somethin' to see.:rolleyesg

[Chopper]

AZ I agree with you, I know what you are doing, and i'll say it again, thank you. You keep up the good work, and don't pay attention to the negativity. I just don't simply understand why poeple in this world, includding in this site like to step on other people. I would understand if you showed no intrest to us whats so ever, But i know you care and thats all that matters. Agian Thank You. And for those that Just plain simply like to slap the docter for trying, just remeber what your mamas said when you where young, " if you don't have anything good to say, Don't say anything at all". AZ Good Job Bro.
And I still Love everybody here:flower:, not talking sides, just being real and honest.:bgwg: So lets just all get along :group: .And if you can save a friend a few bucks, by calling something out....you suggest keeping your mouth shut? Some here make a living (and a hobby) with automobiles, not just a VX. This "spinning your air charge" thing has been around in one form or another for a few decades now. GM incorporates spin vanes in the intakes on Corvettes (better fuel air mix) but the idea just never produced enough to justify the weight of the piece (the gains are that small) If a throttle body spacer, or a Turbonator did anything real, don't you think it would be standard issue on every SCCA car to turn a wheel in anger?? Wouldn't every EVO, GT3, And Ferrari have one on it????Paah-leeze. This is not new tech....it's old myth. Wayne

[CoastieCosta567]

I'm a little confused? What you meant about that comment Chappa?:confused:




And if you can save a friend a few bucks, by calling something out....you suggest keeping your mouth shut? Some here make a living (and a hobby) with automobiles, not just a VX. This "spinning your air charge" thing has been around in one form or another for a few decades now. GM incorporates spin vanes in the intakes on Corvettes (better fuel air mix) but the idea just never produced enough to justify the weight of the piece (the gains are that small) If a throttle body spacer, or a Turbonator did anything real, don't you think it would be standard issue on every SCCA car to turn a wheel in anger?? Wouldn't every EVO, GT3, And Ferrari have one on it????Paah-leeze. This is not new tech....it's old myth. Wayne

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

Don't take it too personal AZ, some of us "older fellas" been turnin' wrenches on this or that for 30-40 yrs.
Seen a lot of engineering fads come & go in that amount of time...that kind of experience breeds skepticism...simple as that.
You want to see an example of what I'm talkin' about, try to find Naoki's webpage (maybe someone will post a link), I don't think there is an accessory made, bogus or not, that he hasn't hung on his VX.
He has magnets all over the place to "straighten" electrons or something...it's somethin' to see.:rolleyesg

I totally understand, but keep in mind, Im in my mid 40s myself
and have been working on cars since I was 16.
I opened my performance shop back in 1990 here in Tucson
(motorsportwarehouse.com) and I spend half my day actually
talking customers out of $500 headers for their civics and $800
cat backs for their GM trucks etc, only to offer more reasonable
cost alternatives. Usually similar products without the inflated
brand name prices. Im the Only shop in town who does this.
Most shops reel you in and the promises of massive hp gains only
for the customer to be let down.
That said, I was very skeptical about this particular item myself a few
yrs ago when it came out.
I had customers coming in asking for it by name, so FINALLY I gave in
and started stocking a few of their (Helix) part #s.
After a few months I had customers coming in wanting to buy one
"because their buddy had bought one and loved it" Thats a quote
from a dozen or so customers. How could I argue with a customer at
that point. I wasnt even trying to sell them one, but from word of
mouth on its results alone from past customers, they sold themselves.
That said, thanks for the nice comments guys. :bgwo:
and to the other negative Neds, oh well, its your lose not mine living
in such a skeptical world.

[mbeach]

I don't think that I said anything negative, if it appeared so, then I apologize.

All I said was that it was a very nice piece of machine work, and would look good peeking out from behind a nice set of hoses. If you're into the show thing, then by all means jump on. As for performance gains, well, the jury's going to be out on that one for a long time...

Some members had mentioned that they wanted to see dyno'd results, something no manufacturer's really ever been able to come up with. Now if the part improves 'driveablity' then just say so -not everything can be quantified on a dyno. Take a short-shift kit, for example. It won't add a speck of horsepower, but it will make your shifts faster, and by association, your times will drop. If there's something out there that makes the VX "feel" quicker, stop faster, ride better, then by all means, find it and sell it.

Believe me, I spend all day dealing with old farts who have it all figured out. It's frustrating to pitch a new approach (on the most efficient way to push oil down a pipe, no less), only to have it poo-poo'd by some tech who's been around since tubes were the standard.
My challenge is to prove why my way is better - and prove why it's sensible to invest in the change.

So good luck in your ventures, you'll find a receptive community here, thankful for your efforts.

[Chopper]

My challenge is to prove why my way is better - and prove why it's sensible to invest in the change.

So good luck in your ventures, you'll find a receptive community here, thankful for your efforts.

There it is in a nutshell....no one is hatin' on ya. Just challenging you:bwgy:

[xdfarrx]

Damn you guys are bustin' this guys stones.

I've heard of these before, and if I recall right Calmini sold something like this.

Either way do what you like.

I like mod'ing my stuff. Ill try one.

[Vehi-Cross-Az]

Damn you guys are bustin' this guys stones.

I've heard of these before, and if I recall right Calmini sold something like this.

Either way do what you like.

I like mod'ing my stuff. Ill try one.

Ive been hard pressed for time juggling several cars and
havent had time to put mine on.
Also had something to do with 100+ heat we had all summer.
Ill get mine on this week, with pics too.
If you want to order one, just call me
thanks
Dayle
520 321 9500