4000

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

4000

[crager34]

SWEET!!! :jump:

Amazing!! :dance:


WHAT??? :_confused

[etlsport]

WHAT??? :_confused

4000 is the american death toll in iraq :cryb:

[crager34]

DOH!! (me)

:_iamwiths

sorry

[Chopper]

:sighp::nop:

[indifferent drummer]

CNN reported yesterday that approximately 80,000 to 100,00 Iraqi civilians have been killed as well.
WWJD?

[WormGod]

First one to answer this question wins 1 point of respect from me....

After 5 years, how many WMDs have been found to date in Iraq? :rolleyes:

[BuxGuy]

It's over 7,000 dead if you choose to remember the 3,000 civilians killed by the MoFo cowards at the WTC.
:_brickwal

[tom4bren]

As compared to the six figure death toll from genocide prior to us going in...

[indifferent drummer]

4000 deaths is a horror. But there are economic costs that are crippling our nation.
When Clinton left office, the US had a half a trillion dollars in the bank. That surplus is gone now. The war has cost anywhere from 3 to 7 trillion dollars (with no end in sight if McCain wins).
How can one put those numbers into perspective?
Suppose someone were to give you a dollar every second. Would you want them to stop at a million, a billion or a trillion?
A million seconds will pass in 12 days.
A billion seconds will pass in 32 years.
A trillion seconds will pass in 32,000 years.
So what we have spent so far would take at least 100,000 years just to count.

I read where the cost of the Iraqi war is $40,000 for each American family. I'd rather that money go to the victims of Katrina.

[Chopper]

It's over 7,000 dead if you choose to remember the 3,000 civilians killed by the MoFo cowards at the WTC.
:_brickwalWrong war

[JHarris1385]

To those that 100% oppose that war.....do not read, do not listen and do not care to know the facts.....

Advice: grow some common sense..... And then and maybe just then we can have a political debate on an Isuzu VehiCROSS forum....

[BuxGuy]

Wrong war

Right war, right time, right cause.

Oh, and look, not another single attack on American soil in 5 years.

[tom4bren]

"To those that 100% oppose that war.....do not read, do not listen and do not care to know the facts....."

Agreed.

Our justification for going in may have been based on intelligence that was eventually proven wrong (WMDs). Saddam took perverse pride in admitting that he duped the US into believing that he had massive quantities of them. He just used them up before we got there.

We may not have efficiently trained the Iraq military to take over soon enough.

We should be using Iraq profits from their oil to pay for the rebuilding (of course that in itself would be a dam if you do ... dam if you don't proposition).

The place is a terrorism hot bed and the guy was a monster so I think the war was justified. We should have gone in sooner to stop most of the genocide.

[Mark B]

I saw that in the paper this morning.
How many permanently injured?
When is this war going to stop?

[nfpgasmask]

And don't forget about the countless animals, and all the environmental destruction and pollution the war has caused. They barely ever talk about these things...

Bart

[Joe_Black]

We've got enough problems at home to worry about fixing those outside our borders. The US should adopt an isolationist policy more extreme than that which we enjoyed prior to WWII and focus our energies internally, utilizing the military to secure our borders and coastlines. Once our economy and military stays here you'll see a radical shift in anti-US sentiment.

Will it happen? Will ANY change happen? Maybe after the next Revolution. :rolleyes:

[tomdietrying]

Here's a way to stop the Iraq war. Have a draft. If everyone has a chance, other than volunteering, to go to this great war, it will end pretty quickly.

If you support the war, that's your right. If you volunteered, I respect that a lot. That means you talk the talk and walk the walk. I just ask that you don't talk all this smack and have someone else have all the fun. Go volunteer.....don't be like my cousin who was 22 when Iraq started. He talked all kinds of smack, but when asked why not go and do his part he would sheepishly say he was doing his part with his part time job. Or don't be like a buddy of mine who talked a lot of smack when his son was 12. Now that he's 17, I asked him if he was talking to his son about going to Iraq. He also said sheepishly my son makes his own decision. I reminded him that as a parent he should guide his son to make that decision. He looked away and said he had not and will not do that.

Peace.
Tom
012009

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

Interesting responses..

I personally hold anyone who voted for GWB personally responsible for not only 4000 of our countrymen and women dead,but for all the maimed and wounded G.I s who now have plastic where limbs used to be, for the countless innocent Iraqis who have been killed in the mayhem. The blood is on your hands....
Beyond the physical and mental toll...Let's look at the economic toll. Our beloved country is in a recession...I see it everyday, established businesses going under and closing their doors for good.
I see big banks and investment houses getting bailed out, but no help for the little guy, small business owners.
Gwb came into office with an economic surplus and will be leaving office with a deep deficit. I thought Republicans were money saavy?
Gas prices are skyhigh and oil companies are raking in huge profits.
The middle class is being squeezed harder than any time in history.
I was reading there is an influx of 40-50 somethings having to move back in with their parents!
This is the result of people voting in an idiot into office. I don't see why the whole country is not mad as hell. Why is there not legions of people throwing molotov cocktails at the White House every day screaming for his ouster!
I still love this country,with all my heart,but the American dream is fading, and like most dreams, you have to be asleep to believe in it.

[don moore]

lol..If you dont like it move to canada...GOD BLESS AMERICA..

oops ..lol

[cyronman]

We've got enough problems at home to worry about fixing those outside our borders. The US should adopt an isolationist policy more extreme than that which we enjoyed prior to WWII and focus our energies internally, utilizing the military to secure our borders and coastlines. Once our economy and military stays here you'll see a radical shift in anti-US sentiment.

Will it happen? Will ANY change happen? Maybe after the next Revolution. :rolleyes:


Joe,

IMO you hit it right on the head.
As a veteran of OIF 2 & 3, I'm tired of people (other vets) standing ground for "all the good we've accomplished for Iraqi civilians" i.e. building schools/organizing soccer leagues for their children/repairing power plants, roads, hospitals, irrigation equipment, etc...
I'm not saying that's not awfully thoughtful of us, but it's all just a show--
why can't we do that here on our own turf?

Cy

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

lol..If you dont like it move to canada...GOD BLESS AMARICA..

You are right...God Bless Amarica!
Where is Ama rica?
is it by Costa Rica?

[nocturnalVX]

We've got enough problems at home to worry about fixing those outside our borders. The US should adopt an isolationist policy more extreme than that which we enjoyed prior to WWII and focus our energies internally, utilizing the military to secure our borders and coastlines. Once our economy and military stays here you'll see a radical shift in anti-US sentiment.


Joe,

IMO you hit it right on the head.
As a veteran of OIF 2 & 3, I'm tired of people (other vets) standing ground for "all the good we've accomplished for Iraqi civilians" i.e. building schools/organizing soccer leagues for their children/repairing power plants, roads, hospitals, irrigation equipment, etc...
I'm not saying that's not awfully thoughtful of us, but it's all just a show--
why can't we do that here on our own turf?

Cy

Absolutely... take care of yourself first. Can't be of any use to others if you yourself are messed up.


lol..If you dont like it move to canada...GOD BLESS AMERICA...

Or Mexico... Ireland... Poland... wherever. If you choose to keep your loyalties elsewhere, move back. This is not The Divided States of America!

America & Americans first... then (if we can, after there are no more troubles here) help others.

[tom4bren]

"I personally hold anyone who voted for GWB personally responsible for not only 4000 of our countrymen and women dead,but for all the maimed and wounded G.I s who now have plastic where limbs used to be, for the countless innocent Iraqis who have been killed in the mayhem. The blood is on your hands...."

That would be me. I'm not going to hang my head in shame for making an educated decision at that time.

I rekin the only thing worse than me is someone who incessantly WHINES about the issues and does NOTHING about it but whine some more.

Just what would you have had the President do differently? Close our borders and pretend that 3000 Americans had not been brutally murdered. Maybe Sadam wasn't behind it directly but Iraq was a terrorist hotbed and terrorism is an cancer that just continues spreading if unchecked. Maybe the war could have been run differently but ... were you there? ... when did God tap you on the shoulder and give you the gift of absolute knowlege? Oh, I know. The media said it so it must be true.

Don't get me wrong, I mourn for the dead and wounded (my nephew was wounded 3 times in 1 tour) but I will not denigrate the sacrifice that they willingly made. They did what they believed was right as did the President. The cost of the war both in terms of lives lost and money spent is incredibly high but what would the cost have been if it had been fought on our soil. Make no mistake - that is the direction that terrorism was headed.

As an American you are entitled to voice your own opinion as you have done. The problem is that there are just too many Americans who sit in front of their TVs and become intoxicated by the media's bashing of the war and the President and develop a terminal case of constipation of the brain and diahrea of the mouth. You've stated your opinion and feebly attempted to justify it with facts but remember that the facts can (and have been) corrupted to make the story what they want you to hear. Cmon, if the media told nothing but happy face stories who would watch it?

All I'm saying is that it's time for you to stop whining and start acting. What are you going to do Junkie? All of those soldiers who valliantly gave their lives acted. Now it's your turn.

[tomdietrying]

Tom4bren said......"Maybe Sadam wasn't behind it directly but Iraq was a terrorist hotbed and terrorism is an cancer that just continues spreading if unchecked."

Your arguement is weak at best........we had Sadaam bottled up for 15 years.....he could not do anything in his own country without our knowledge. We had that country so secure after the first Gulf War it's silly now to argue that he had WMD. He could not even fly in his own country because the U.S. put a NO FLY ZONE for the past 15 years. We knew excacly what he had and what he didn't have.

There are good cops and bad cops. If you smart off to a cop, and he's a bad cop, he CAN and WILL find a reason to haul you in. That doesn't mean the cop is right. The United States was the bad cop in this case. Explain to me why we only put 20,000 soldiers in the country that was resonsible for 911 and 160,000 in a country that had nothing to do with 911. W estill haven't got Bin Laiden and we still only have 20,000 soldiers over there. Makes it seem like Bin Laiden wasn't the real target.

You have to admit every arguement this administration has given us of why we are there has not been true.

Peace.
Tom
012009

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

"I personally hold anyone who voted for GWB personally responsible for not only 4000 of our countrymen and women dead,but for all the maimed and wounded G.I s who now have plastic where limbs used to be, for the countless innocent Iraqis who have been killed in the mayhem. The blood is on your hands...."

That would be me. I'm not going to hang my head in shame for making an educated decision at that time.

I rekin the only thing worse than me is someone who incessantly WHINES about the issues and does NOTHING about it but whine some more.

Just what would you have had the President do differently? Close our borders and pretend that 3000 Americans had not been brutally murdered. Maybe Sadam wasn't behind it directly but Iraq was a terrorist hotbed and terrorism is an cancer that just continues spreading if unchecked. Maybe the war could have been run differently but ... were you there? ... when did God tap you on the shoulder and give you the gift of absolute knowlege? Oh, I know. The media said it so it must be true.

Don't get me wrong, I mourn for the dead and wounded (my nephew was wounded 3 times in 1 tour) but I will not denigrate the sacrifice that they willingly made. They did what they believed was right as did the President. The cost of the war both in terms of lives lost and money spent is incredibly high but what would the cost have been if it had been fought on our soil. Make no mistake - that is the direction that terrorism was headed.

As an American you are entitled to voice your own opinion as you have done. The problem is that there are just too many Americans who sit in front of their TVs and become intoxicated by the media's bashing of the war and the President and develop a terminal case of constipation of the brain and diahrea of the mouth. You've stated your opinion and feebly attempted to justify it with facts but remember that the facts can (and have been) corrupted to make the story what they want you to hear. Cmon, if the media told nothing but happy face stories who would watch it?

All I'm saying is that it's time for you to stop whining and start acting. What are you going to do Junkie? All of those soldiers who valliantly gave their lives acted. Now it's your turn.

What was your educated decision, to vote for GWB? For that you should hang your head in shame. GWB has been more detrimental to the United States than Saddam had been to Iraq.He has been more detrimental to Iraq than Saddam too. Don't spout off about the Kurd mustard gas massacre because that happened before W's fathers term and nothing was done about it then. Papa Bush was in striking distance of Saddam in the first gulf war but was wise enough to leave than hornet's nest alone.He knew what his dumb son diden't: that those people are crazy! They strap bombs to women and kids in the name of religion.
All this attention on Iraq was due t the fact that Saddam threatened to kill GWB's father. So he had a hard on for Iraq even before he was elected.
I supported us going into Afghanastan and rooting the Talaban because they were supporting Osama and had a supporting role in 911. There is no direct link to Osama and Iraq...It's just Afghanastan dose not have the worlds richest oil reserve under it's heroin poppys.
I am sorry, this country has suffered internally and in the eyes of the world under the current administration.I find it hard to put my trust in an administration that has been wrong or lied about almost everything regarding the war up to this point.I don't think the media is duping me, I think your party affiliation is duping you.

[tom4bren]

"we had Sadaam bottled up for 15 years.....he could not do anything in his own country without our knowledge."

Then why didn't we know where every mass grave and every weapon cache was located?

"You have to admit every arguement this administration has given us of why we are there has not been true."

To the best of my knowlege there was only the one reason ... WMD. Why would you assume that we were duped? We were mistaken, there's no doubt about it. Saddam took perverse pride in admitting that he intentionally misled the coalition forces about the existence of WMDs. I was fully convinced they were there too. I was wrong and I honestly believe that our Government was too.

"W estill haven't got Bin Laiden"

Ever stop to think that it's infinitely more effective to keep him contained than it is to create a martyr (sp?).

"GWB has been more detrimental to the United States than Saddam had been to Iraq.He has been more detrimental to Iraq than Saddam too."

Please provide the basis for this comment - it makes no sense to me. Or you using an exageration to add credence to your other false assumptions?

"There is no direct link to Osama and Iraq..."

I never said there was. I said that Iraq was a terrorist hotbed & you agreed ("They strap bombs to women and kids in the name of religion."). Thanks for supporting my point.

"Don't spout off about the Kurd mustard gas massacre because that happened before W's fathers term and nothing was done about it then."

But it was done and it was done by Saddam. You're just supporting the fact that we should have gone in ... we should have gone in sooner.

"I think your party affiliation is duping you."

Possibly. Unfortunately you have failed to convince me of that. I believe that 'my party' was mistaken as was I & so was Colin Powell. It wasn't a lie or a fabricated excuse. We were intentionally misled by Saddam.

"It's just Afghanastan dose not have the worlds richest oil reserve under it's heroin poppys."

That's paid out for us quite well now hasn't it.

[tomdietrying]

Why don't you open your eyes? We were not mislead by Saadam. We were misled by this administration, and we are still being mislead. You have been lied to, yet you make an excuse why it is not a lie. If Bush was a CEO of a company, he would already have his walking papers. The problem is Bush is SO MUCH MORE than a CEO, and created so many more problems than a CEO could ever do.

Peace.
Tom
012009

[tom4bren]

"Why don't you open your eyes?"

Maybe I choose not to. I lead a much happier life if I don't continually assume that the world is out to get me. So far my approach has worked out quite well for me. In my life I have taken many chances where I rely on the honesty of others and it is on rare occasion that I am disappointed. So I give the American political machine the same favor. If Obama or Clinton gets in office I'm prepared to have them make my life a living hell at work since I work for the Army but in general, I will put my trust in them just as I did for Bush.

Lets just agree to disagree since I won't convince you & you won't convince me on this particular topic. 'Sides, Y'all are giving me a headache making me think too much:)

[tomdietrying]

Ignorance is Bliss. That's the simpletons way.
Peace.
Tom
012009

[tom4bren]

Put a smiley after you say that Bub.:)

See, I trust that was your intent ... you weren't looking to piss me off.:)

Gotta run & burn up a little of all that Iraqui oil we won in the war.:)

G'nite

[PHO2GR4]

Weird how quickly these threads can divide us.

I bought my VX purely for pleasure. I come to this board for the camaraderie and friendship...for the VX discussions...for the jokes and laughter. :)

Yes, it can be a serious world out there. Yes, these are important issues. But is this really the best forum for discussion out there? Aren't there plenty of other websites and blogs made specifically for that purpose?

I dunno...it's just my opinion, which is as worthless as anyone else's. On one hand, I claim that this VX website isn't the best place for heated political debate, but on the other hand here I am making a post in this thread.

The thing is, I already know that nobody cares about my opinion on the war. Nobody cares about ANY VX owner's opinion on the war. It's far too complex to even bother discussing in a few paragraphs. I mean, honestly, how many opinions are there?

1) Are you FOR the war? Is anyone truly "for" war? Is there such a thing as a "good" war, and if so, is this Iraq thingie a really "good" war? It's a friggen' mess, is what it is. And none of us...not you, or you, or you, or me...NONE of us has the teeniest idea of the true complexity of that situation. Genocide? Probably. WMD's? Maybe. Just because Saddam didn't wheel them out to show us doesn't mean they weren't there. Oil money? Maybe. Favorable contracts to Bush's pals? Perhaps. Space aliens? Hmmm...No more wacky than Muslims and Christians killing each other in any God's name. :eek:

2) Are you AGAINST the war? Hey, good for you for taking the high moral ground. You're such a brave soul for coming out against killing. So risky! So 'out there'! Wooooo hoooo. Are you also in favor of puppies and candy and love? Are you pro-good and anti-bad? Wow. NPR thanks you for your support. Keep on livin' on the edge, you radical. :p

I'm not trying to make light of the war. I'm just saying that this is a VX forum, and I really doubt that ANY of us in here, who CHOOSE TO DRIVE THESE OBSCENE GAS GUZZLERS, can truly claim to be experts on why this war was or was not necessary.

Having said all of that, I want to thank each and every one of you who have contributed to the knowledge base of these wonderfully fun vehicles. And props to those of you who are anti-war and anti-killing AND have found a practical way to get your VX running on tap water instead of $3.50/gallon unleaded regular fuel. Please post those instructions ASAP for the rest of us!

(Note: this post was made with tongue planted sort of firmly in cheek. Hence the "Smilies" sprinkled throughout.) :bwgr:

[Joe_Black]

Great post Pho2gr4! I admin two separate forums much like this for collectors and enthusiasts of vintage Caterpillar equipment, and the political discussions there are most notable for not being particularly divisive. Most of the folk into that particular hobby are generally cut from the same cloth, which is very interesting considering the international nature of our 4000+ membership.

Here, very different. The VehiCROSS really spans a very broad spectrum across the demographic, which is why I typically stay out of the religion/politics discussions. I know I stepped in here, but my views are usually radical enough to keep most at bay. ;) But as mentioned this isn't the best board to to engage in such ponderings without a thick hide and an open mind. :bgwg:

[PHO2GR4]

But as mentioned this isn't the best board to to engage in such ponderings without a thick hide and an open mind. :bgwg:

I'm more thick-minded...
:)

Thanks for your post! I love everyone in here, regardless of political persuasion.

Except for the damn Belgians!!!! :mad:

[JHarris1385]

Wow we have a fool amongst us (or two). Speaking of the media brainwashed folks that take what the tv says versus researching for themselves. Threads like this should be banned.

4Bren - If I had enough energy (car wreck view "so I" thread) or time (I consider it a waste arguing politics on a car forum or even dealing with junkies at all) I would be helping you. Its an easy war for us to fight just sometimes not even oxy clean can help ansoiled brain.

Thank you.

[WiSDoM]

4000 hmm... 40,000+ wounded and maimed. why don't you do something to help and support these people that have sacificed so much for our country and other countries around the world. I want to thank all our veterans who are serving and who have served.

This war is not a GWB invention, it was US foriegn policy dating back to the Clinton Admin. so it doesn't matter who is president. When bad things happen they have to do what they believe is in the best interest of the country. Do you think things would be much different if Al Gore was president during 9/11 or JoHn Kerry won the last election? And do you think that will be different if Clinton or Obama or McCain is elected? They have to protect our best countries interests. I don't remeber Clinton doing a go job protecting American interests here on our soil or around the world. It easy to have a lot of friends when you don't enforce the rule of law. There is plenty of blame to go around and nothing get done doing it. So solve the problems.

Lets face it oil makes the world go round. We get 20% of our oil from the middle east the rest comes from north and south america. We Americans need to change our energy policy to benefit our country's economic issues. Start investing in our infrastructure, new oil refinaries, new powerplants, and start using all our natural resources. We need oil exploration on our soil and stop tying our wallets to foreign oil producing countries that are spreading anti-american B.S around the world. Also work on developing green energy technologies too that can be shared with the whole world so they can become energy independent as well. this will eliminate OPEC's hold on the world and help stop the spread of some of their old world ideologies.

Peace my Vx brothers and sisters.

P.S. HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE Cindy Sheehan called, she would like her CODE PINK panties back if your done wearing them. :eek:

[tom4bren]

I can't agree more with the last 5 posts. I guess I'm really more 'middle of the road' than I appeared in my blathering earlier - Sorrry.

I would like to apologise to HWJ. I broke my own cardinal rule about discussing politics - discuss, don't argue. I didn't go back and reread my earlier posts but I probably took some personal shots against you. That's wrong & I'm sorry. I may not agree with your political viewpoints but I have nothing against you personally - I even like your choice in vehicles:)

Suddenly my signature isn't funny anymore - time for a change.

[Scott Harness]

It's about time! Animal abuse is not funny. That has been bugging me since I first saw it.

[nfpgasmask]

Weird how quickly these threads can divide us.

I bought my VX purely for pleasure. I come to this board for the camaraderie and friendship...for the VX discussions...for the jokes and laughter. :)

Yes, it can be a serious world out there. Yes, these are important issues. But is this really the best forum for discussion out there? Aren't there plenty of other websites and blogs made specifically for that purpose?

I dunno...it's just my opinion, which is as worthless as anyone else's. On one hand, I claim that this VX website isn't the best place for heated political debate, but on the other hand here I am making a post in this thread.

The thing is, I already know that nobody cares about my opinion on the war. Nobody cares about ANY VX owner's opinion on the war. It's far too complex to even bother discussing in a few paragraphs. I mean, honestly, how many opinions are there?

1) Are you FOR the war? Is anyone truly "for" war? Is there such a thing as a "good" war, and if so, is this Iraq thingie a really "good" war? It's a friggen' mess, is what it is. And none of us...not you, or you, or you, or me...NONE of us has the teeniest idea of the true complexity of that situation. Genocide? Probably. WMD's? Maybe. Just because Saddam didn't wheel them out to show us doesn't mean they weren't there. Oil money? Maybe. Favorable contracts to Bush's pals? Perhaps. Space aliens? Hmmm...No more wacky than Muslims and Christians killing each other in any God's name. :eek:

2) Are you AGAINST the war? Hey, good for you for taking the high moral ground. You're such a brave soul for coming out against killing. So risky! So 'out there'! Wooooo hoooo. Are you also in favor of puppies and candy and love? Are you pro-good and anti-bad? Wow. NPR thanks you for your support. Keep on livin' on the edge, you radical. :p

I'm not trying to make light of the war. I'm just saying that this is a VX forum, and I really doubt that ANY of us in here, who CHOOSE TO DRIVE THESE OBSCENE GAS GUZZLERS, can truly claim to be experts on why this war was or was not necessary.

Having said all of that, I want to thank each and every one of you who have contributed to the knowledge base of these wonderfully fun vehicles. And props to those of you who are anti-war and anti-killing AND have found a practical way to get your VX running on tap water instead of $3.50/gallon unleaded regular fuel. Please post those instructions ASAP for the rest of us!

(Note: this post was made with tongue planted sort of firmly in cheek. Hence the "Smilies" sprinkled throughout.) :bwgr:

Well said, Eric. I agree completely. I have avoided an opinionated response to this thread for those very reasons.

You should come to Moab again this year and hang out!

;) Bart

[WormGod]

Ok, here's one for ya....

This guy is walking down the street. Not Main Street, where all the business is handled for specific, everyday needs, but Misc Street, where you see all sorts of other places of interests and non essential establishments. He sees a neon sign that says "Nudie Bar: 4000 Naked Women Inside".

So, he walks in. He takes a very quick look around and sees the "stage show" and the patrons with their handfulls of dollar bills and alcoholic beverages.

The man screams out to the patrons "This is an outrage! There is a time and place for this, just not here, not now! I came here for a drink and to relax! How am I supposed to do that with all this sin and carnal activity going on!?"

The patrons turn to look at him. Then, their gaze turns to the sign and the street name, then back to him again. Shrugging, they turn back to the show to participate in what they came for.

I don't know that the moral of this story really has to be explained. Especially since I just like to run into nudie bars, throw a firecracker, and then run out. :p

[PHO2GR4]

Strained Analogy Alert:

I'm a little confused by this last post.

What if the street name was Vehicross Street, and the neon sign simply said "4000"? That neon sign could refer to a multitude of things. 4000 posts from that member. $4000 for a VX.

The 4400 was a cute little show on the USA Network that was recently canceled. Maybe it was picked up by a different network with a smaller cast, and they changed the name to "4000".

Maybe it referred to the number of pounds in two tons. Or the number of credit card numbers lost in the latest banking data mishap. Or today's drop in the Dow. Or the total weight lost by the contestants of "The Biggest Loser". Or the towing capacity of Tone's hitch. Or how many times a VX window can go up and down before it breaks. Or how much money 1142.857 gallons of gas will cost today. Or how many miles a VX can go on 307.69 gallons of gas. Or how many VXs are left on Earth.

4000 is a very versatile number! Don't just assume it can only refer to naked women.

[WyrreJ]

"we had Sadaam bottled up for 15 years.....he could not do anything in his own country without our knowledge."

Then why didn't we know where every mass grave and every weapon cache was located?

One day, I got really annoyed at people flinging around the "mass graves" comment and did some research on the topic. Here are some things I found out:

The term "mass graves" as used in Iraq applies to any grave with more than 6 people in it.

So far, only about 5,000 bodies total have actually been found in mass graves in Iraq.

The four largest mass graves -- purported, but not proven, to contain a lot more than 5,000 bodies -- were all created early in the 1990s as Saddam massacred people who fought against him in the hope of getting support from the americans.

No significant mass graves, or mass killings of any sort in Iraq had been committed in Iraq for close to a decade before the 2003 invasion and there was absolutely no reason to expect any more to be committed without external provocation.

Americans created mass graves in Iraq too. (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/11/17/IN178228.DTL)



To the best of my knowlege there was only the one reason ... WMD. Why would you assume that we were duped? We were mistaken, there's no doubt about it. Saddam took perverse pride in admitting that he intentionally misled the coalition forces about the existence of WMDs. I was fully convinced they were there too. I was wrong and I honestly believe that our Government was too.

I think you will be hard pressed to find actual evidence of Saddam admitting he intentionally misled the coalition forces. But even if he did, that's no excuse -- why should a tin-pot dictator be able to mislead the most powerful nation on earth? In fact, saddam did not mislead us, but the whitehouse did 935 times. (http://www.publicintegrity.org/WarCard/Default.aspx?src=project_home&context=overview&id=945)


Ever stop to think that it's infinitely more effective to keep [bin Laden] contained than it is to create a martyr (sp?).

Possibly, but that point is moot because he is clearly not contained. He seems to be able to release videos at will and has directed thousands of al-quaeda to Iraq for training.



"There is no direct link to Osama and Iraq..."

I never said there was. I said that Iraq was a terrorist hotbed & you agreed ("They strap bombs to women and kids in the name of religion."). Thanks for supporting my point.

I'll dispute that Iraq WAS a terrorist hotbed. It clearly is NOW, but there is no evidence to suggest that it WAS prior to the 2003 invasion. Saddam and Al-quaeda were completely at odds with each other as his rule was primarily secular and tribal. I'm sure that Saddam had a few 'terrorist training programs' as part of his military, but so do we and so does most every other country, we just call them "special forces" when they are on our side.


"It's just Afghanastan dose not have the worlds richest oil reserve under it's heroin poppys."

That's paid out for us quite well now hasn't it.

It sure has for the oil companies, have you looked at their share prices recently?
Royal Dutch Shell is up over 50% since the invasion, Exxon is up about 150%, Chevron is up about 150%, BP is up over 50%, etc, etc.

[JoFotoz]

To paraphrase Voltaire....


“He who thinks himself wise, O heavens! is a great fool”




Wow we have a fool amongst us (or two).


jo

[JHarris1385]

Dont give me the opportunity to take at shot at you, like you just did at me.....
Given the fact that my comment was not directed towards you I congratulate you on your immaturity. You have received a pm. Take care.

One more reason I wish I never posted in this thread and believe it should be closed. Politics should not be venue that allows such comments to be said. I am done with this thread. I am politically charged and have been since birth my father has been a state rep among other numerous political positions. I have a degree in political science and have been on and still am on many national debate teams.

[WormGod]

Strained Analogy Alert:

I'm a little confused by this last post.

What if the street name was Vehicross Street, and the neon sign simply said "4000"? That neon sign could refer to a multitude of things. 4000 posts from that member. $4000 for a VX.

The 4400 was a cute little show on the USA Network that was recently canceled. Maybe it was picked up by a different network with a smaller cast, and they changed the name to "4000".

Maybe it referred to the number of pounds in two tons. Or the number of credit card numbers lost in the latest banking data mishap. Or today's drop in the Dow. Or the total weight lost by the contestants of "The Biggest Loser". Or the towing capacity of Tone's hitch. Or how many times a VX window can go up and down before it breaks. Or how much money 1142.857 gallons of gas will cost today. Or how many miles a VX can go on 307.69 gallons of gas. Or how many VXs are left on Earth.

4000 is a very versatile number! Don't just assume it can only refer to naked women.

*sigh*

And yet again, the same guy that walked into the bar and realised that it wasnt his type of establishment, found more grounds to fight the urge to just leave.

C'mon man, I am the guy throwing firecrackers to rouse people. I dont care for this thread either but it's just so damned fun getting a rise out of people. :P

[PHO2GR4]

*sigh*

And yet again, the same guy that walked into the bar and realised that it wasnt his type of establishment, found more grounds to fight the urge to just leave.

C'mon man, I am the guy throwing firecrackers to rouse people. I dont care for this thread either but it's just so damned fun getting a rise out of people. :P

Well, I went back and re-re-read my original post. It was very calmly worded, so that even a casual reader would see the point. I had a few issues with your weak analogy, though, which I (again) calmly responded to. In fact, just for fun, let's dissect your comments:

"This guy is walking down the street. Not Main Street, where all the business is handled for specific, everyday needs, but Misc Street, where you see all sorts of other places of interests and non essential establishments."

Despite your rather feeble attempt to categorize it as such, this forum is NOT really 'Misc Street', is it? In fact, while there IS a "Chit Chat" forum for off-topic posts, this entire website really exists for Vehicross discussions...just like the CNN website has news discussions or the NPR site has NPR discussions or your pron sites have pron discussions. A cursory glance through the FAQ section, put together by the vehicross.info site administrator, shows the very first rule, and I quote ( http://vehicross.info/modules.php?name=FAQ&op=viewcategory&cid=5), is: "This is a VehiCROSS dedicated website, all topics, comments and photos should be related to Isuzu, or the VehiCROSS."

So. Off-topic posts should be in the Chit Chat forum, as this thread is. But just because you CAN post an off-topic thread in a VX website doesn't mean that it's the BEST PLACE ON THE INTERWEBS for it. He said calmly. :) Sure, people can twist or ruin ANY resource, if they set their efforts towards that end. Doesn't mean it's an intelligent use of effort, though, does it?

Now, let us continue trudging down this analogic VX-specific street:

"He sees a neon sign that says "Nudie Bar: 4000 Naked Women Inside".

No, clearly he doesn't see that sign. In fact, he sees a very arbitrary sign that just says "4000", doesn't he? Look at the first few posts in the thread. Just question marks...no nudity whatsoever. Sort of a letdown, frankly.

"So, he walks in. He takes a very quick look around and sees the "stage show" and the patrons with their handfulls of dollar bills and alcoholic beverages."

No, he sees a few initial posts wondering where da VXs at. Then he notices that it's apparently some sort of deep-minded political debate. One that starts off relatively benign but then starts to pit friend against friend, with some needless name-calling thrown in. But...where da VXs at?!?

"The man screams out to the patrons "This is an outrage! There is a time and place for this, just not here, not now! I came here for a drink and to relax! How am I supposed to do that with all this sin and carnal activity going on!?"

This weakest part of your flimsy analogy really had me wondering. Who screamed, exactly? My post was calm, and full of smilies, and full of very obvious mentions of smilies. I don't see how anyone could miss those parts of my post. Who was outraged? Not me! I didn't sense much outrage anywhere, except for the aforementioned pockets of name-calling, right? So see, we all wanna be cool. And that's what we're gonna be. We're gonna be cool. Now Ringo, I'm gonna count to three, and when I count three, you let go of your gun, and sit your *** down. But when you do it, you do it cool. Ready? One... two... three.

"The patrons turn to look at him. Then, their gaze turns to the sign and the street name, then back to him again. Shrugging, they turn back to the show to participate in what they came for."

Still not quite hitting the mark, are you? I seem to recall a few 'patrons' responding to my post in a favorable manner. This IS after all a VX brotherhood. If you insist on trying to stir up a hornet's nest by throwing firecrackers into a nudie bar, that's your prerogative. I'm pretty sure that, like all threads, this one will soon die off, leaving the rest of the site to continue on as a repository for VX knowledge, hints and tips. (He said calmly.):supercool No outrage here! No screaming! Just a bunch of little Fonzies here. And what's Fonzie like? Come on WormGod what's Fonzie like?

That's right; he's cool. ;)

[JoFotoz]

Take a shot at me....????...!!!:p


Dont give me the opportunity to take at shot at you, like you just did at me......


DUDE!!!...I was simply returning YOUR random fire!
YOU set the tone ( took the first "shot" ) by calling others fools.:o



As for "immaturity" and who directed what , at whom...


Given the fact that my comment was not directed towards you I congratulate you on your immaturity. You have received a pm. Take care.


You invoked the "fools" ref , in an open post on an OPEN discussion board.

Please .....be good enough to a take as good as you give....!!!!;)


Ahh..religion & politics....always good for a REAL insight to others!

jo

[JHarris1385]

Oh I get it now. I had to re-read my post....

--"Wow we have a fool amongst us (or two). Speaking of the media brainwashed folks that take what the tv says versus researching for themselves. Threads like this should be banned."--

I guessed you considered yourself to be described in the above. It was not intended to be directed to you personally. I think we all know who. But considering you decided to respond solely directed to me says something about yourself. If you happen to reference the entire thread I would assume the tone was set elsewhere. As for first shot I think the refenced post of mine was on page three of this thread - if that says anything. There is another thread somewhere that junkie and I had a discussion so there is a slight history. Speaking of history junkie is known to do this. I think he gets a thrill out of stirring up stuff like this. So I will take the first step and not post again here, we can continue our own discussion through the current pm if desired. I wanted to clear up my name and give reason for my actions. I come here to discuss VX and get ticked when this pops up, that said justifies my actions. Plus being in pain from the car wreck adds to the frustration and allows me to get annoyed easily.

Take care.

[Ldub]

I can't believe y'all take the bait every time junkie dangles the "worm" of how things would be if HE ran the country/ world/ universe...why do you even care?
The only thing that gives his opinion any validation is the fact that there are some still willing to regurgitate the same "facts" over & over...nothing ever changes.:rolleyesg
Whats the point?...As soon as you respond, he's won again.

If pointless politco blather & name calling on an automotive enthusiast website is your idea of a good time...:_mecker::_mecker:;puke:

[JoFotoz]

Dude...if you have a problem with "junkie"....

...please have the nads to post DIRECTLY to him.


Otherwise...

....if you post a NON SPECIFIC retort on an open thread,
..that in general paints all who dont see it your way as fools....

...dont get bent out of shape when YOUR OWN WORDS...

...come back ta bite ya!

You INVOKED the initial FOOL verbiage.

If that term offends you...dont use it on others.


jo

.


And please...enough of the PM's.

[JoFotoz]

So....Rum and Diet...or FULL OCTANE COKE...?:confused:


Thats a real important question!:cool:


jo

[Ldub]

So....Rum and Diet...or FULL OCTANE COKE...?:confused:


Thats a real important question!:cool:


jo

Till I realized who you were quoting, I thought you were replying to me...:smilewink

I'd say, ya only live once...go for the hi-test.:thumbup:

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

I can't believe y'all take the bait every time junkie dangles the "worm" of how things would be if HE ran the country/ world/ universe...why do you even care?
The only thing that gives his opinion any validation is the fact that there are some still willing to regurgitate the same "facts" over & over...nothing ever changes.:rolleyesg
Whats the point?...As soon as you respond, he's won again.

If pointless politco blather & name calling on an automotive enthusiast website is your idea of a good time...:_mecker::_mecker:;puke:

I think it is interesting how a guy with a skull on top of a japanese import has now decided he is the minister of information. We can talk about this but not about that. Some kid in Indiana who lives with his parents, and who may not be the world's best driver, thinks no one should have an opinion on how crappy his beloved G.O.P has messed things up. I believe he is of age to fight over there and put his *** where his mouth is (so to speak). But I am thinking it is much easier to rattle his saber from the safety of his bedroom.
Point being, I am gonna say what I want, If you don't like it, don't comment. talk about greasing your windows or Moab or how yellow your proton is.Everyone is entitled to an opinion. If you are a dumb ***, I will still like you, I will just privately think your a dumb ***. If you think this republican recession and sham war is something you take a certain amount of pride in then sorry, your not someone who I would personally consider an intellectual equal.

[Ldub]

Sooooo...right back to name calling, you're absolutely right, I'm not your intellectual equal.

Thanks for pointing that out.:thanx:

[JoFotoz]

FINALLY...we have a consensus of opinion!!!:p



I'd say, ya only live once...go for the hi-test.:thumbup:



I agree...HI Test it IS!!!


Did the diet thing...blaaaaacyyyykkkk!...if I want cotton mouth...I'll roll one.:cool:


And lets face it... aint this cola debate the perfect analogy...


...EACH TO HIS OWN!

Cheers:p


jo



.

[Ldub]

[QUOTE=PHO2GR4;122094]A cursory glance through the FAQ section, put together by the vehicross.info site administrator, shows the very first rule, and I quote ( http://vehicross.info/modules.php?name=FAQ&op=viewcategory&cid=5), is: "This is a VehiCROSS dedicated website, all topics, comments and photos should be related to Isuzu, or the VehiCROSS."

So. Off-topic posts should be in the Chit Chat forum, as this thread is. But just because you CAN post an off-topic thread in a VX website doesn't mean that it's the BEST PLACE ON THE INTERWEBS for it. He said calmly. :) Sure, people can twist or ruin ANY resource, if they set their efforts towards that end. Doesn't mean it's an intelligent use of effort, though, does it?[QUOTE]

I "find it interesting" that you had no comment on this post...said the self proclaimed minister of information (a known douchebag, who is going to Moab).
And if you haven't noticed, "greasing your windows, gong to Moab & how yellow your proton is", are all VX related topics.

[QUOTE=junkie]"Point being, I am gonna say what I want, If you don't like it, don't comment."[QUOTE]

WTF???, Am I correct in assuming that your opinion is the only one that matters?...nice.:thumbup:

[tom4bren]

"It's about time! Animal abuse is not funny. That has been bugging me since I first saw it."

Sorry Scott. My signature was an analogy to arguing a topic full circle & yet still continuing to argue (we do that a lot where I work). I'll come up with a new one.

[WormGod]

Just a bunch of little Fonzies here. And what's Fonzie like? Come on WormGod what's Fonzie like?

That's right; he's cool. ;)

http://img5.allocine.fr/acmedia/medias/02/61/27/026127_ph2.jpg

Cool indeed!