To Quote This Months "Car & Driver"

[JoFotoz]

Page 49...talking about the planned 2011 land Rover LRX.

"What might go wrong"

Land Rovers new owners (or anyone else for that matter)
might not go for the stylish coupe-SUV idea -
-remember the Isuzu VehiCross?



OK...did they just diss us...

..or pay us a HUGE compliment :confused:


jo

[VXIRONwoMAN]

I bet you there are people out there reading that quote that are saying "What's a VehiCROSS?" :p

I take it as a compliment... they called us :cool!: stylish! :supercool

[Ascinder]

Mayedbe I'm not completely understanding this, but I was under the impression that the VX wasn't ever meant for mass production. I mean I'm no expert like the writers/editors of Car and Driver:rolleyes: but I thought the fact that Isuzu used ceramic molds which essentially self destruct after a certain point would point fairly directly to restricted numbers.

[So-CalVX]

I don't like that statement. I don't care that they used the word stylish, its under the "what might go wrong" category and said they don't think anyone will go for it.
maybe I'm just being a negative nancy, but that sure don't sound like a compliment to me

[Joe_Black]

Just further proof that ignorance is rampant at Car & Driver.

[VehiGAZ]

Just further proof that ignorance is rampant at Car & Driver.

As opposed to the brilliance over at Motortrend?!?!

I'm a long-time subscriber of Car & Driver (as in >20 years long-time), and I have found cause to disagree with things they've written plenty of times before. But I haven't made it to this article yet, so I will reserve further comment until I read the full context (I'll jump ahead to it tonight).

In any case, I would suggest that we put together a response letter on behalf of the VX fans on this forum, with a reminder that it was purposely intended to be a small-volume niche vehicle, as their own review article from 1998 article (which I still have) points out.

On that note, I'd love to find out if the small-volume high-priced VX was a financial success for Isuzu. (but if it was, I think they or another company would have tried it again at some point over the years).

[Joe Isuzu]

I read the article too and got a chuckle. It was nice to still be remembered. Yes, I believe this was definitely a "diss" b/c it implies that the VX didn't sell well. However, my impression was always that the VX was a halo vehicle, as in, a loss leader that was meant to direct people to the Isuzu showroom. Similar to the Prowler with Plymouth and the Viper with Dodge (but the Viper sold more than Chrysler likely ever anticipated). Either way, I didn't get bent out of shape about it, we can send a letter to C&D, I've seen it before with the Alfa Club and the Shelby Charger club, both of which I owned and were "dissed" in C&D. Long time subscriber to them as well but honestly, my main gripe is that they have a very distinct Honda/BMW bias. Very rarely do those cars ever lose in comparison tests.

[VXIRONwoMAN]

They did, they call it the FJ - although it completely lacks style.

Don't go looking for Jay when you need a tow strap!!! :laughing:

[VehiGAZ]

I believe this was definitely a "diss" b/c it implies that the VX didn't sell well.

I know I'm going to piss a few people off uttering this, but, well, the VX didn't sell well. The first ones may have sold for full sticker plus, but the last 2001 models sat on dealer lots for up to 2 years before being dumped - discounted as much as ~$8000 discounts (according to members' posts on this site, anyway). If that was after 200,000 sold, it would not be a sign of disaster. But in a run of 4000-4500 vehicles in the US, that's not so good.


my main gripe is that they have a very distinct Honda/BMW bias. Very rarely do those cars ever lose in comparison tests.

...because Honda & BMW are clearly and consistently the two best automakers in the business. They build a better mousetrap - just because C/D points that out doesn't make them biased. Do you think they are biased against Ford because Ford builds crappy cars?

[VehiGAZ]

They did, they call it the FJ - although it completely lacks style.

Although I think it is in many ways the spiritual successor to the VX, I can't put the FJ in the same small-volume niche-vehicle as the VX. It has mass appeal and robust sales, and was never planned as a limited production model.

If I ever decide to replace my VX, the FJ will be the one to take its place.

[VXIRONwoMAN]

I know, right! At least his FJ is the all black TRD edition. It is the only FJ that doesn't look like it belong in Willy Wonka's driveway!

Are you trying to redeem yourself to Jay just in case you need him to pull ya out? :p If I were to buy an FJ it would be like Jay's... I think it awesome! He makes Moab look like a walk in the park. :cool:

[MashyMan]

From a sales and marketing perspective, 'Car & Driver' is correct. Land Rover is in no position to release a vehicle w/ limited appeal. They have very few models and are currently trying to redeem themselves from the image of having unreliable vehicles w/ antiquated technology. Scrictly from a corporate vantage, the last thing they need is to bring to market another VX.

[Y33TREKker]

I don't really think the logic of the remark is sound because they are comparing apples to oranges. From what I've ever heard, the VX was never meant to be a large-scale production vehicle, or main revenue producer like the few models in the Land Rover line are meant to be.

[Zorak]

On that note, I'd love to find out if the small-volume high-priced VX was a financial success for Isuzu. (but if it was, I think they or another company would have tried it again at some point over the years).


[QUOTE=VehiGAZ;126487]I know I'm going to piss a few people off uttering this, but, well, the VX didn't sell well. The first ones may have sold for full sticker plus, but the last 2001 models sat on dealer lots for up to 2 years before being dumped - discounted as much as ~$8000 discounts (according to members' posts on this site, anyway). If that was after 200,000 sold, it would not be a sign of disaster. But in a run of 4000-4500 vehicles in the US, that's not so good.
QUOTE]

You seem to have answered your own question.

[Chopper]

[QUOTE=Zorak;126501]On that note, I'd love to find out if the small-volume high-priced VX was a financial success for Isuzu. Noooooo! Last gasp if anything.

[Y33TREKker]

"What might go wrong"

Land Rovers new owners (or anyone else for that matter)
might not go for the stylish coupe-SUV idea -
-remember the Isuzu VehiCross?

Won't they have egg on their face if that statement is also applied to the new BMW X6. From what I've seen, the X6 concept and the Land Rover LRX look almost like twins.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2245/2123203504_d38829a34d.jpg?v=0
http://www.bohp.net/blog/pict5/news070911x6c02.jpg

[JHarris1385]

X6 isnt a concept anymore its available to purchase soon with those lines.

[VehiGAZ]

Won't they have egg on their face if that statement is also applied to the new BMW X6. From what I've seen, the X6 concept and the Land Rover LRX look almost like twins.

Except for one very important difference - 2 vs 4 doors. 2-door vehicles are a tough sell to anyone that needs to regularly fit more than 2 people in them. 2-door SUVs are even tougher.

Still, that LRX is pretty sharp! (I have no idea what that ridiculous X6 is supposed to be - it reminds me of the Dodge Caliber more than anything else)

[VX crazy]

I love the LRG and 2 doors, and I just was on the road yesterday with the new X6, in black it was way hot looking, sits higher off the ground....not sure if it would be that good looking in other colors....

[tom4bren]

I thought the VX wasn't even planned for LRIP on a serious basis for Isuzu & definitely not planned as a real money maker either. The VX was planned as a test bed for innovative technologies. We're sort of Beta Testing concepts for them.

To compare the VX to any production model does a disservice to both vehicles.

[nfpgasmask]

To compare the VX to any production model does a disservice to both vehicles.

I agree. To compare the VX to anything else available on the consumer market is basically impossible, imho (save for maybe an Amigo or Rodeo Sport as far as the two door thing goes). The VX is, and most likely always will be a one-of-a-kind vehicle. Its NOT like the Aztec, and its NOT like the Avalanche. Its simply a VehiCROSS and you either love it or hate it. A futuristic and sporty 2 door SUV is something that basically does not exist outside the VX. Sometimes I look at the Mazda CX-7 or the Toureg, and those vehicles looks nice, but they still have that unfortunate station-wagon, soccer-mom look. There is something about the VX that pushes all the extremes and makes it unique, and comparable to nothing else on the road. Period. The end.

Since I have lifted and put bigger tires on, the comments have been flowing in regularly again. I don't really understand why, I mean, my VX definitely looks tougher and more off-roady with the new digs, but it still basically looks the same as it did before. I dunno, its all good either way.

Bart

[nfpgasmask]

Like I said before, stance is everything!

Yeah, I guess so. I mean, I can't stop peeping it out the window, so I guess the rest of the world is peeping it also.

Bart

[pbkid]

i noticed a significant increase in compliments also since i lifted it....

before i lifted i seemed to get that it looked like a #$@%ed up rav4 all the time...and now people are like "what is that thing?!?!?!" "its awesome" "is it really killer offroad?"

definately seems to be more response to lifted VX's...

good thing too...i was starting to wonder if there was something wrong with mine because i never got any comments...now they wont stop coming in lol:cool:

[nfpgasmask]

I checked your VX Madness site in hopes of getting a peek myself - you are such a tease!

LOL, actually, I took my VX offroad a little yesterday and snapped a few shots. If you think REAL HARD you might be able to find the pics online somewhere. :luck:

I really need to update VX Madness. I have all sorts of little mods to add and a lot of photos to post. After Moab I will be updating for sure, with all the pics I will come back with.

Bart

[VehiGAZ]

Hey Bart, you should pick up a copy of that Cr & Driver when it hits the newstands. European tuner Brabus showed a car in Switzerland that is right up your alley!

I've started on a letter to Car & Driver, btw. I'll have a draft ready for posting here for "peer review" in the next day or two...

[tom4bren]

"Like I said before, stance is everything!"

Zeus,

Am I reading between the lines or are you actually complimenting my stance with the 'offset from hell'

[VehiGAZ]

Here's a draft of the response to Car & Driver. I will double-check the references to their articles, the original price, etc. from home tonight. But feel free to suggest any revisions, additions, & redactions...


Dear Ed.,

In regard to your commentary on the 2011 Land Rover LRX ["24 Cars Worth Waiting For" June 2008], there are quite a number of us who remember the Isuzu VehiCROSS quite well, seeing as we still drive one everyday.

Many of us on the VehiCROSS forums were taken aback by your apparent swipe at our beloved “stylish coupe-SUV,” but also flattered by the back-handed compliment. We assume you were implying that the VehiCROSS fizzled as a model (it only sold about 4100 units in three years). We counter that it was always intended to be a very small production run and sold at a very high price (~$29,500 in 1999 dollars). In fact, you informed us of this in your own road test [C/D, April 1999], discussing how the body cladding pieces were molded by a process of very limited longevity (who has forgotten about the Isuzu VehiCROSS, indeed?).

The Isuzu “VX” stands out as one of the first and few radical concept vehicles to make it to the market in largely its car-show form. The design was so far ahead of its time that we VX owners are still consistently asked what model it is and whether it’s an ’08 or ’09 – almost ten years after its debut! (Those of us with over 100k on the clock are particularly amused by the shocked jaw-drops that accompany our answers to such inquiries.)

Of course, none of us outside Isuzu knows if the VehiCROSS was considered a success or failure within the company, or by what criteria that was judged, but it certainly is not appropriate to use it as an example of what Land Rover should not do with their similarly striking and unusual LRX concept.

– Sent on behalf of the members of the www.vehicross.info internet forum, as well as VX owners everywhere.

[So-CalVX]

I read and like ur response on behalf of all VX owners. Very well though out and written.

[VehiGAZ]

Like I said before, stance is everything!

You and Larry Craig agree...

(On the Rennlist forums, they have a smiley who hides behind a stone wall for protection - I need one of those NOW!!) :)

[fuzzy]

VehiGAZ - Love it! Send that puppy in!

[nfpgasmask]

Well written! Send that puppy in indeed!

Bart

[Scott Harness]

Excellent reply!!

[kodiak]

Nicely done!

[JoFotoz]

Excellent letter....:cool:

jo

[VehiGAZ]

Thanks guys! I made a few minor edits tonight, but the message remains the same.

[VehiGAZ]

I lean more toward the balanced stance cuz it's easier to keep your feet on your side of the line.

Well said! I'm with you on that one!

[VXIRONwoMAN]

Great letter! A+

[Thmstec]

Couldn't have said it better myself! Send it in!

[etlsport]

tom does a good job staying in the lines
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/vehicross_0031.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11094)

[VX crazy]

Put a stamp on it, love it!!

[tom4bren]

vehigaz - nicely written. I wouldn't change a thing.

Eric - thanks for the support. Nice pic - reminds me tho, I need to send you mine.

Zeus - PHHHT. Keeping your feet on your side of the line is a skill, don't blame the rig. I even stay on my side when I have the SeaDoo twin pack behind me. Don't make me come to Moab & learn you a few things. Remember: old & sneaky beats young & ambitious every time.

[VehiGAZ]

Letter sent. Keep an eye out for it in the next couple of issues...

[kodiak]

Letter sent. Keep an eye out for it in the next couple of issues...

Nice!!:p

[WormGod]

tom does a good job staying in the lines
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/vehicross_0031.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11094)

Hahaha, just seeing this.... one thing comes to mind....

http://i3.iofferphoto.com/img/item/217/400/71/o_2037.jpg

Sorry, couldnt resist, hahahaha. :p

[tom4bren]

That hurts ... that really hurts:)

Opinions are like azzholes - everybody has one:)

[snowtrooper1966]

Sweet Jezzus!
I need to wash my eyes out now. Although it is a "striking similarity";)....

Great letter! You spoke for me as well...
James

[alanbradley]

Great letter and I look forward to seeing if its printed (I have a subscription - yes, I am sad enough to aubscribe to a US car mag in the UK...).

I keep wondering what would happen if I plastered the VX in black vinyl and strange lumps before driving around Birmingham/Solihull and seeing hom many times it has is picture snapped!

:cool:

A

[kodiak]

Great letter and I look forward to seeing if its printed (I have a subscription - yes, I am sad enough to aubscribe to a US car mag in the UK...).

I keep wondering what would happen if I plastered the VX in black vinyl and strange lumps before driving around Birmingham/Solihull and seeing hom many times it has is picture snapped!

:cool:

A

You should put a sticker on the back that says “Land Rover recovery vehicle":p

[alanbradley]

One of mates has ordered one to go on the back of his Mitsubishi Pajero/Montero. Our boss is a Land Rover freak... :lol:

The alternative version is "Attach stuck Land Rover here -->"

A

[maxw]

I was on a plane coming back to Boston when I read the original article, and also took it as a diss. Hence I very much appreciate your very thoughtful response to the editors. It's clear they've been sniffing way too many tail pipes lately.
I would also suggest that the VX would leave the Land Rover in the dust in terms of it's off road pedigree.
Perhaps they don't seem to realize that while the Land Rover brand seems to carry some cache here in the US (why I don't know); it is more reknowned for incredible unreliablity in almost every category, from safety through to mechanics. Perhaps that is why Ford is off loading it to the "colonies". I can only imagine the grimacing and gnashing of teeth going on in the "Empire" as a previous colony is now vyying to take it over... the Land Rover Tata perhaps?