Manual Locking Hubs

[Solitude]

Hello folks,

While looking at some of the mod pictures I have seen some VX's with manual locking hubs..

What is the benefit with these.. does it mess up the TOD?

Guess thats all the questions I have for now.. I am sure others will reveal themselves as time goes by

Thanks
Jeff

[Greasemonkey]

Hi how can you have locking hubs on a car that has no auto lockers - the VX has a drive shaft that turns all the time the 4wd is on all the time it would mean fitting rodeo/trooper front drive shafts and taking a manual hub from the same vehicle - i don't see the point - did you know with a small modification you can convert the TOD to 2wd anyway - mine has 2wd already as its a JDM VX - its great fun and makes the car a lot more economical and faster but you do lose handling at speed i am sure you could convert yours using some info about the JDM TOD system - its the same as the trooper which in the US should come with 2wd as well
cheers
Steve

[kodiak]

It allows me to do parking lot acrobatics and it saves a little gas on long trips. The TOD doesn’t seem to care. I’ve had them on for about 8 months, I pulled mine off an old rodeo.

[nfpgasmask]

Pardon my ignorance, but can someone explain exactly what the advantage to having locking hubs would be? I mean, we are AWD to begin with, and then we have 4L, so what would having locking hubs add in addition to what we already have going for us?

Now, I know a 4WD/2WD toggle switch would help with gas mileage and possibly with wear on our front end components, but is that all we are talking about here?

Bart

[kodiak]

Nope, that’s about it other then its fun to have 2wd sometimes and you get a little more street cred with the off road crowd.:rolleyes:

[kodiak]

And if you don’t have hubs you still get wear on the front components.

[JHarris1385]

I am in the same ball park as Bart..... I would like a little more insight on this. So if I installed manual hubs my front IFS would not be powered? Grease what is needed in order to make only the rear driven?

[tom4bren]

Check my logic on this please someone:

1) You are still sending power down through the half shafts but it doesn't reach the ground since your wheels are now free spinning.

2) The gear train for the front drive is designed to operate under load and it MAY not like freewheeling.

3) Since the gear train is still active, you may save some gas but not much.

4) Since the gear train is still active, you may gain some power but not much.

5) No increase in reliability since the drive train is still active (maybe less since 2) may decrease the longevity of the transfer case).

IMHO - not worth it, my front drive train stays functional.

[kodiak]

I am in the same ball park as Bart..... I would like a little more insight on this. So if I installed manual hubs my front IFS would not be powered? Grease what is needed in order to make only the rear driven?

Grease:confused:

All the manual hubs do is allow you to ether connect or disconnect the front wheels from the front axel allowing you to do what’s called free wheel the TOD will still sent power to the front axle when it thinks it needs it but it just wont make it to the wheels. Now when you are cruising down the freeway the TOD usually isn’t sending anything to the front wheel so if you have the front hubs in free wheel your not needlessly turning the from axle and wasting gas.

[So-CalVX]

we ship a JDM transfer case over and swap it into one of our VX's... Would that work? Or would we need the tranny, t-case and bellhousing since the jap engine is different. (although I think it's only the heads that are different, correct me if I'm wrong)

If I had the money that would be my conversion. Especially since its a PITA to get a RHD legal in Cali.

[Greasemonkey]

Hi the JDM and the US vehicross are almost identical the difference in the engine is a shorter con rod and a longer crank web to get the 3.2 to a 3.5 the TOD is identical and i recon its just a gear lever gate that stops you selecting 2wd the TOD can be swopped form 2wd to 4wd and back at any speed upto 50 MPH
i would have a good look under the gear gaiter and see if you have the facility i will make a short video of the 2wd this weekend and post a link for you - NB in 2wd the front prop still turns but the drive is disconnected by the electronic clutches in the gearbox - i find it hard to beleive that Isuzu would make 2 different TOD gearboxes the cost just wouldn't be viable
cheers
Steve
PS call me GM for short

[kodiak]

Hi the JDM and the US vehicross are almost identical the difference in the engine is a shorter con rod and a longer crank web to get the 3.2 to a 3.5 the TOD is identical and i recon its just a gear lever gate that stops you selecting 2wd the TOD can be swopped form 2wd to 4wd and back at any speed upto 50 MPH
i would have a good look under the gear gaiter and see if you have the facility i will make a short video of the 2wd this weekend and post a link for you - NB in 2wd the front prop still turns but the drive is disconnected by the electronic clutches in the gearbox - i find it hard to beleive that Isuzu would make 2 different TOD gearboxes the cost just wouldn't be viable
cheers
Steve
PS call me GM for short

That would be freaking cool! Thanks man.

[So-CalVX]

Now that's useful information.
I would be out right now checking under my lever but I left my Bee in TO. I'm driving my grandma's liberty till the 11th. Someone check that out. I'd like to be able to kick into 2WD or 4WD below 50MPH, I'd feel like I'm back in my 4Runner.

Richard

And Grease monkey, thanks. But the last GM I knew fired me for doing 3miles over the speed limit, and there was no police involved. I'll just call u Greasemonkey. Don't wanna get fired again

[Greasemonkey]

Hi no problem i'm a bit of a Vauxhall nut and i am a fitter by trade so the Greasemonkey and GM (General Motors) thing kind of stuck - most of the uk sites have me hanging around helping out with tech stuff - just well chuffed with the VX it has the same engine as both the Isuzu trooper, the Vauxhall montery (trooper) and the vauxhall Frontera (rodeo) so spares are real easy to come by - i just need to get the local Isuzu dealer to make friends with a Jap dealer for the accessories
And the 2wd is pretty scarey round wet sharp corners when you have got used to the TOD being in :smilewink
cheers
Steve

[bobmumgaard]

Awhile ago we spent alot of time discussing whether lockable hubs are any advantage. It was part of the TOD 2wd selector discussion (mbeach, me and others). The hubs disconnect the wheels from the front halfshafts. True the TOD does keep the whole front spinning, however it can't send torque there. I have lockable hubs and here is why:

1) Better gas mileage. I've monitored this with a scan gauge. On a 40 mile round trip at 70 miles an hour I got 1.4 mpg better with the hubs disengaged as opposed to locked. These runs were back to back on the same day, same conditions on the same highway both directions to combat any wind. I even refueled to keep the weight the same. On my 1900 miles to and from moab this year I averaged 19.8 mpg with the hubs disconnected. (albeit driving like a grandma)

1a) At one point I had the TOD cut off (there is a blue wire, its in the previous discussions) and I seemed to get even better mileage but never tested it. I reconnected it to prevent any damage and I was tired of the check light on the TOD.

2) With the hubs disconnected. The TOD cannot transmit any TORQUE to the wheels. So the reliability is better because nothing is loaded. I am lifted and have had a hell of a time with my CV's. Granted they are still spinning but that is much better than spinning AND transmitting torque. As for whether the front axle freewheeling is a good thing; It can't over spin (ie go faster than the rear), it freewheels some of the time with the TOD anyway, so I've never seen any problem.

3) 2wd is fun. In the snow and rain it is a hoot. Plus it is all you really need most of the time (my opinion, others will differ)

4) Bragging rights for climbing obstacles in 2wd are always better than those in 4wd.

5) If you break a cv on the trail you can ulock the hubs and unbolt the front axle from the TOD and get home. (I've never had to do this, yet, Though I tried it to make sure it works just in case.)

So thats my 2 cents. I have the superwinch hubs and they have held up fine. Though if I had to do it over again I probably would've just pulled some from a trooper.

[WiSDoM]

I installed them for just the reason Bobmumgaard said breaking cv on the trail. unlock the hub no more grinding . the cv f*up but no more noise and you can still use your daily driver until they are fixed.

[JHarris1385]

Well I think I may have heard enough to convince myself to get some.

[CoastieCosta567]

well i have a 2wd-4wd swtich, the gain i get on MPG is only 1 extra Mile, not to much, power i can't tell. But my main reason why i have the TOD of all the time unless offroading is cuz sence i got the lift it makes this weird noise, and many here have had it or have it when you go higher then 50mph, but when i have the TOD off the noise goes away. I don't know if there is a bigger problem here then i think, but thats what i do.

[JHarris1385]

So is 6 bolt 17 spline what we look for?

If out in the junk yards how can one determine if they are pulling off a quality hub?

[kodiak]

So is 6 bolt 17 spline what we look for?

If out in the junk yards how can one determine if they are pulling off a quality hub?

I pulled mine from a first gen rodeo. There’re Aisin hubs and very tuff, if you fined a set you should be able to clean them up with out too much trouble. If you’re able to engage and disengage them on the donor Isuzu they should be fine.

[kpaske]

I've got a set of SuperWinch manual hubs that I never installed. I tried to get it done a couple of weekends ago, but couldn't figure out how they attach to the axle. They looked like they would bolt on, but the axle wouldn't be attached to anything. Can someone whose done the install give me some tips? Maybe they sent me the wrong part?

[kodiak]

I've got a set of SuperWinch manual hubs that I never installed. I tried to get it done a couple of weekends ago, but couldn't figure out how they attach to the axle. They looked like they would bolt on, but the axle wouldn't be attached to anything. Can someone whose done the install give me some tips? Maybe they sent me the wrong part?

This is what I did.
http://www.4x4wire.com/isuzu/tech/manualhubs/

[Ascinder]

I've got a set of SuperWinch manual hubs that I never installed. I tried to get it done a couple of weekends ago, but couldn't figure out how they attach to the axle. They looked like they would bolt on, but the axle wouldn't be attached to anything. Can someone whose done the install give me some tips? Maybe they sent me the wrong part?

You just remove the solid metal slugs(the 6 allen screws) and the new hubs slide over the splines of the axle, then just bolt the allen heads back down.

On a side note, if you get the Aisin hubs, mine had normal style bolts attaching the outer hub cap to the body. I recently broke one of the heads off and had to remove the shank with an EZ out. I replaced mine with allen screws which would ideally strip out before the head would shear, plus you can still get them off with vise grips if they do strip.

[kpaske]

Wow, I didn't think it could possibly be that easy. Well, looks like I've got a project for tomorrow. Thanks guys... ;Db;

[Solitude]

Wow.. I am so glad I asked this question.. 23 responses.. and all useful.. SWEET!!!!!

Now I know what I am gonna change along with the wheel change.

Awesome information ..

Thanks again

Jeff

[Solitude]

anyone else want to chime in?

[AlaskaVX]

I have manual locking hubs on mine and like the fact that my 4 wheel drive seems to work MUCH better in reverse now, before the fronts would not spin in a tough situation now they seem to always work. I thought we had autolocking hubs that would only lock when going forward, thats why I switched. Also to help save my CV's.

When I was racing at the track I had a switch to disengage the TOD, I would unlock the hubs, and at one point I even dropped the front driveshaft to try to get as much power to the rears as possible. I believe this helped but I don't think the gain was really worth it. Maybe -0.2 seconds in a quarter mile. But it was cool to be able to light the rear M/T tires up before I got to the line.

[VehiGAZ]

My 2 cents...


the TOD is identical and i recon its just a gear lever gate that stops you selecting 2wd the TOD can be swopped form 2wd to 4wd and back at any speed up to 50 MPH

This statement isn't true. The JDM ToD is the same one as was used in other Isuzu products in the US that had optional ToD such as the Trooper (it might however be interchangeable between the 3.2 and 3.5L engines, though). The VX ToD is unique, and cannot be shifted into 2wd. The US Trooper with the 3-position ToD (JDM VX ToD) also had auto-locking hubs which would engage once you put it into 4WD and started rolling. That's how it was able to go true 2WD - disconnect the front axle at the transfer case and the front hubs would automatically unlock and disconnect from the front axle drivetrain components (by driving backwards IIRC?) so it did not uselessly spin them via either the wheels or the t-case. If mbeach had been successful with the ToD intercept, we could have used such a device to completely disconnect the front of the drivetrain and used manual-locking hubs to truly get 2WD-Hi operation.

(Bart, you have reason to be unclear about the manual hubs mod - even if people do see some benefits by doing it, it does not provide a true 2WD mode because it will still be spinning the unused drivetrain components which saps power and fuel economy).

Personally, I wouldn't do it to my VX... there's so little upside to this mod on an unlifted VX and way too much downside (i.e., pulling unknown-quality parts off a junked car and putting them on your VX). I've had my fill of "improvements" that screw up something in the process... I don't need any more of those headaches.

[Greasemonkey]

Hi the JDM TOD 2WD tottally disconnects the propshaft in the front axle using the shift on the fly technology found in the later Troopers the front drive shafts do turn though . i had a good look round the other day
cheers
Steve

[VehiGAZ]

I thought we had autolocking hubs that would only lock when going forward, thats why I switched.

I don't think this is right - I am pretty sure that ours our permanently locked. My buddy at work had a ToD Trooper that had auto-lockers and it made noises the VX never did - you could hear the hubs click as they engaged after putting it into ToD or 4WD-Low. After you switched out of 4WD, I think you had to drive in reverse a few feet to unlock the hubs (not sure on this point and can't find my buddy to ask). In the VX we are always in some level of 4WD-Hi, so the hubs have to stay locked.

If you had issues with the front axle when going in reverse, that was probably because of the transfer case, not the hubs.

[VehiGAZ]

Hi the JDM TOD 2WD tottally disconnects the propshaft in the front axle using the shift on the fly technology found in the later Troopers the front drive shafts do turn though . i had a good look round the other day
cheers
Steve

Interesting! Now, sorry if I don't understand the drivetrain terminology well - are you saying that the driveshaft coming out of the front of the transfer case to the front differential is disconnected when in 2WD, or are you saying that the front drive shafts (differential to wheels) are disconnected at the front differential when in 2WD?

[Solitude]

I am pretty sure that ours our permanently locked. My buddy at work had a ToD Trooper that had auto-lockers and it made noises the VX never did - you could hear the hubs click as they engaged after putting it into ToD or 4WD-Low. After you switched out of 4WD, I think you had to drive in reverse a few feet to unlock the hubs (not sure on this point and can't find my buddy to ask). In the VX we are always in some level of 4WD-Hi, so the hubs have to stay locked.

I agree with the last statement.. our hubs are locked all the time and the TOD is what decides where to send what..

The part about using old parts of junks to improve though was not on my plan
I was going to use aftermarkets locking hubs..

I know that difference of opinions are out there.. but it is better to agree to disagree silently or state your opinion from real time use and move on

no reason to discount other opinions.. there are numerous ones on many topics that are personal and important in themselves..

I have learned a few things from the responses.. but didnt resurrect this thread to get into a pi$$in contest

so.. having said that..

anymore thoughts to be shared from personal experiences real time would be appreciated.. otherwise I will let it die

peace
Jeff

[VehiGAZ]

I didn't mean to discount anyone's opinions - sorry if I came across that way. I tried to make a point that I thought there was limited value in the mod to an unlifted VX (i.e, just sharing my opinion as others have) - clearly, the lifted folks benefit from unlockable hubs.

[Greasemonkey]

Hi (this is as far as i have determined but i will confirm when i have had a better look) i think when the 2wd is selected the front prop stops turning and the front axle disconnects from the drive shafts using an internal clutch very similar to the shift on the fly system on the 'rodeo' US or 'Frontera B UK . so the outer CV joints turn the drive shaft and the inner joints but the diff doesn't turn because the internal part of the drive shafts are disconnected using a clutch type mechanism - which means that the front prop doesn't move either - its all very complex and so much to go wrong with sensors etc
if it is the same then i can change from 2wd to 4wd at any speed up to 50mph the same as the shift on the fly system as fitted to my wifes car but i shall be having a really good look in a few weeks time as i will be doing all the fluid changes
cheers
Steve

[VehiGAZ]

Ahhh - I think I can picture what you are describing. Sounds like it is more complex and capable than out US-spec VX ToD. :-(

[Greasemonkey]

Hi yes no auto hubs to mess up but more to go wrong - the SOT system on the rodeo is vacumn operated will examine the VX and find out more on Sunday
cheers
Steve

[So-CalVX]

I still think a jdm transfer case would be simplest(sp)
would anyone be able to come up with an estimate and anything else we would need for a swap? I don't like the idea of driving backwards 4 feet to lock/unlock 4wd.
Anybody?

Richard

[WiSDoM]

to unlock you just step out of the VX and turn the hub knob to free or to lock.
it pretty simple. like operating a tv without the remote. :bgwg:
i enjoy mine.

[Ldub]

I still think a jdm transfer case would be simplest(sp)
would anyone be able to come up with an estimate and anything else we would need for a swap? I don't like the idea of driving backwards 4 feet to lock/unlock 4wd.
Anybody?

Richard

IIRC, some US Troopers had TOD/2-HI/4-HI/4-LO...might be easier to find.
As far as hubs, put on manual instead of auto...no backing up, like the man said, just turn the knob.:smilewink...:_wrench:

[BigSwede]

As a Trooper guy, if I may interject: a 98+ Trooper (98 is when TOD first came out in Troopers) has drive flanges instead of auto hubs like the 92-97 Troopers. (I imagine VXs have drive flanges as well.) So the front drivetrain is turning all the time, even if the Trooper is in 2WD.

[Ldub]

As a Trooper guy, if I may interject: a 98+ Trooper (98 is when TOD first came out in Troopers) has drive flanges instead of auto hubs like the 92-97 Troopers. (I imagine VXs have drive flanges as well.) So the front drivetrain is turning all the time, even if the Trooper is in 2WD.

So if manual hubs were installed ???

[Ascinder]

(I imagine VXs have drive flanges as well.)

They do.


So if manual hubs were installed ???

Then you can manually turn off the wheels only, the CV's are still under power, but not under load. Whatever the TOD sends up front is then just wasted energy. I have manual hubs and when I ran unlocked I wasn't pleased. The VX lacked it's usual get up and go mojo:(. The hubs do have good uses, but as far as running unlocked for reasons other than pulling donuts or a broken CV, I wouldn't recommend them.

[BigSwede]

Yeah, I don't see a lot of benefit for manual hubs if 2WD isn't an option like it is on a Trooper.

[Ldub]

Yeah, I don't see a lot of benefit for manual hubs if 2WD isn't an option like it is on a Trooper.

That's what I was asking, it seems to me, if you could swap the 2-Hi/4-Hi/4-Lo/TOD out of a Trooper, into a VX & add manual hubs, you would have the best of all worlds.

If I'm understanding correctly, all you need on the Trooper system to achieve true 2WD (and theoretical better highway mileage), is to install unlocking hubs.:_wrench:

[Greasemonkey]

The JDM TOD is turned off when in 2wd so there would be no wasted energy going to the front at all - surely this is what the trooper does too - so no need for locking hubs at all?
i have a contact in japan now for spares so i will as how much for a TOD box to ship to the states - taking into account they are £5000 or $10,000 to replace new do not hold your breathe but maybe 2nd hand will be cheaper
EDIT
right just been and had a good look underneath - it has the SOTF front axle with the motorised transfer box 4wd selector as fitted to the Rodeo and Frontera - so coupled with a TOD off switch its extremely better than the standard TOD only model - no electrics either the front axle is vacumn operated like the Rodeo and Frontera - the fuel economy difference at 60 mph in 2wd i get 27 mpg in TOD i get 22 mpg - same bit of road same revs same conditions etc
cheers
Steve

[Solitude]

I believe that even a 2 mpg gain on a standard US TOD would be worth the cost. I am still curious if there are down sides besides lack of AWD get up and go. I don't think the back lash would be an issue since there is no forward or back up pressure on the freewheelin front parts. --at least thats how my head sorts out what I have read so far..

The only time I see more then standard power applied to the front tires on the display on the dash is when I FLOOR the throttle.. and I rarely do that any more.. There is enough OOMPH in the regular driving to avoid situations I get Myself into on the road..

OffRoading I would think that you would engage the hubs even when you thought about going that direction since the system is designed to run that way anyways.

I really wasnt looking to install a new TOD 2HI/4HI/4LO. Just add the hubs

Thank you for the replys so far.. we have been keeping on track fairly well..

Thanks GM for your input.. (I never really thought about the JDM side of this issue and your insight has benefited this thread immensley.

So far I have learned that the hubs will help out if I lost CV.. and that there is a cost for isolating the fronts out of the system.. Albeit good or bad..

I reread this thread often as I can to see if I missed anything..

Thank you again (so far) for the time you take to enlighten Me.

Peace
Jeff :cool:

[Solitude]

well i have a 2wd-4wd swtich, the gain i get on MPG is only 1 extra Mile, not to much, power i can't tell. But my main reason why i have the TOD of all the time unless offroading is cuz sence i got the lift it makes this weird noise, and many here have had it or have it when you go higher then 50mph, but when i have the TOD off the noise goes away. I don't know if there is a bigger problem here then i think, but thats what i do.

Coastie.. If you are still reading this.. and your 2WD-4WD switch really works..
I think you would be a prime candidate for manual hubs..

I am not sure what the weird noise you have is.. but would like to hear what it WAS if you ever have it diagnosed and fixed

Jeff

[Ldub]

I really wasnt looking to install a new TOD 2HI/4HI/4LO. Just add the hubs

Thank you for the replys so far.. we have been keeping on track fairly well..


Peace
Jeff :cool:

Agreed, nobody has mentioned a dog, cat, rat, fish, turtle, aardvark, wombat, snake or lizard...yet.:smilewink

But the idea of having the Trooper TOD system, with selectable hubs, has been rollin' around in my noodle for a while now.
The increase in mileage would be a huge plus, as would the diminished wear & tear on the CVs, CV boots etc.

[JHarris1385]

A 2mpg increase would be GREAT, that would put me right at about 20 mpg. Which is crazy given I am lifted and a year ago was getting near 11mpg.

[BigSwede]

From what most 98+ Trooper guys have said, they get about 1 mpg additional after conversion to hubs. Of course this is a rough number, 2 mpg isn't out of the realm of possibility...and a VX is a little more aerodynamic than a Trooper :p , might be able to take advantage better.

[kpaske]

Here's some food for thought... let's say you do get a 2 MPG increase by switching to manual hubs, and you normally average about 16 MPG with your VX, and you drive 10,000 miles per year, and gas prices average $4.25 per gallon..... that's a savings of about $295 in just one year (so the hubs pay for themselves in about 4 months).

I just got mine installed a couple of weekends ago and personally I really like them. The handling really isn't much different and the acceleration feels a little less restricted, so if I get a 2 MPG savings to boot, I have no complaints.

[nater]

Guys, I am fairly certain that the TOD system has one pin grounded for TOD on, and another for true 4wd. It is my understanding that this second pin is empty on the Trooper and VX and that the first one is switched on the Trooper, but hard wired on the VX. If we figure out what pin it is, we can put Trooper switches in the VXs, add the manual hubs, and you're done. The whole project would likely be under $100 from a junkyard.

I've got the wiring diagram for the Trooper. Anybody got a wiring diagram for the VX's TOD module? FYI, it is likely safe to short each of the empty pins on the TOD module to ground as long as you have a handful of fuses. Frankly, good automotive engineers know that shorting to ground should be tolerated on all pins as a temporary condition. That is to say that once the short is removed, the module should still function normally, rather than get fried. Of course, there's some risk that the module wasn't designed properly as well. Perhaps the next VX to get totaled could have this experiment run by the owner to find the full 4wd pin (all lights on the indicator should light up).

Nate

[BigSwede]

AFAIK the mpg savings on a Trooper comes from not having the drag of the front drivetrain turning all the time...so I'm not sure you are going to see much if any improvement from manual hubs on a VX unless you come up with a way for 2WD on your t-case...

[Daver]

I've had manual locking hubs on mine for several years now. Combined with a TOD disconnect switch, it's great.

The VX is noticeably quicker in RWD only, and a lot more fun as well. Noticeably better mpg too, when not observing the "noticeably quicker" bit. The only "AWD get up and go" I've ever noticed is having to stand on the brakes at a stoplight to counter the AWD trying to drag me into the intersection. Can't say as I miss that at all... :)

The point of reversing to unlock hubs is to unload the torque from the hub gear's mating surface with the axle so the hub is free to move away from the axle and unlock. Think of hubs as just another gear engagement that binds up after miles and miles of being pushed by the axle to move the wheels. Reversing to unlock applies equally to both auto-locking and manual locking hubs.

Stock, the VX comes with a flange. It's a solid metal gear that connects the axle full-time. It's not something that can be unlocked without being modified or replaced.

-Daver

[taylorRichie]

Thanks for the info...

Once I get the TOD controller done and installed I will also install Manual hubs. I'm quite certain my wheel centercaps will even accommodate them without removal which is cool.

[VehiGAZ]

Okie-doke... here's a nebulous but maybe encouraging idea...

Up until now, my primary interest in mods to the ToD system has been to achieve a true 4WD-high mode (50%-50% lockup in high range) for short-of-treacherous winter driving. But with the current price of gas and the potential for a substantial improvement in mileage if the front axle could be uncoupled at the transfer case and installation of unlocking hubs, my interest in modding the ToD is expanding...

So - earlier this year, I had a problem with my ToD system - some of the wires running along the underside of the VX had come loose and were resting on the cat convertor. This naturally melted their insulation and shorted them out. The short blew out the ToD fuse, and I got the "check" light on the ToD display. At that point, I think the VX was running in rear-wheel-only (2WD-high) mode because it seemed that only the rears were working on our snow-covered ski house driveway in VT (I was able to engage 4WD-low to get full lock-up, even with the ToD off). Of course, this observation would have to be verified by putting the VX on jack stands, pulling the ToD fuse, and putting it in gear to see if the fronts turn at all when the ToD is de-powered.

But if it's true, here's the potential mod to get just true 2WD-high mode: a simply switch in the wire that supplies power to the ToD (or it's ground - automotive electricians, please advise) providing the necessary decoupling, if you don't mind a "check" light on the ToD display (I sure wouldn't!).

If we could do that with a selectable torque split which includes full-decoupling, that would of course be the best solution.

[taylorRichie]

What I'm working on with my brother is a module where you Dial your split.

Anywhere from 0-100% to the front, This isn't a ratio, it's available power. So 100% = 50/50 split.


The issues with running at 0 to the front is the clutch that disengages the front wheels. With TOD if there is any slip in the rear the clutch is disengaged so the power can flow to the front. If you have something that prevents that, the clutch is going to be working REALLY hard, anytime you're experiencing slip in the rear. This is the main difference between our TOD and our JDM friends. They can just mechanically disconnect the front. We can't.

My understanding is that if we control the front wheels to zero, and then unlock our hubs, then the clutch won't have to work as hard because it won't have to fight the rotational mass of the wheels.

If you look for the TOD controller thread, MBEACH has a write up (I posted it one of the last posts) on how our transfer case works.

[VehiGAZ]

Then maybe include a ToD kill switch along with the controller to disengage the front axle, and the clutch won't be trying to do anything at all.

[CrnCnn]

I really didnt read all the replies to this so forgive me if I repeat a question or something that has already been stated throuhout.

So I think I would like to get manual hubs. Mostly because right now I have a bum CV and would like to put it back in for the winter in case I need 4wheel.

Now if I put on the hubs the axles will continue to turn right? They will not be under regular stress because of the hubs disengaged. Correct?

If I install the TOD selector switch then they will not turn at all?

So if I do both then things maybe better when wear is concerned.

Any thoughts????

[kodiak]

I have manuals on mine. The CV will still spin; they just won’t turn the wheels. If you can setup a good TOD selector switch let us know. The JDM VXs can go into 2 wheel only, but no one has reverse engineered it and posted it on the site yet. The Axiom TOD has a nice setup for that, but that hasn’t been reverse engineered ether.:_shrug:

[blujfan9293]

I've read through the posts and have a few specific questions; I bought a Proton that came with Superwinch hubs installed, and I was wanting to remove them.

1. When locked in 4WD, does the TOD work as it should? Understand the 2WD freewheeling torque going to the axel but not the wheels
2. What is the process to lock/unlock them?

thanks,

blujfan9293

[Ldub]

I've read through the posts and have a few specific questions; I bought a Proton that came with Superwinch hubs installed, and I was wanting to remove them.

1. When locked in 4WD, does the TOD work as it should? Understand the 2WD freewheeling torque going to the axel but not the wheels
2. What is the process to lock/unlock them?

thanks,

blujfan9293

Locked in 4-LO, power goes to front & rear axles 50%/50%. TOD, not in play.

Locking hubs are either locked/unlocked = manually (by turning a manual selection device located on the hub), or automatically (by reversing your vehicle for 10-15 feet)

[crotchrocket]

i still don't understand the benefits of the free wheel hubs on the US models, the TOD must have a fit mustn't it?

Fair enought on the JDM as in 2WD you can stop the hole front trans turning whilst driving

[Grif]

I just noticed I have superwinch locking hubs up front. They have been in the 4x2 position ever since I bought it, as Ive never switched them to the 4x4 position.

My TOD indicators appear to work normally, and all this time I thought the TOD was in effect. Are you all saying that with the superwinch hubs in 4x2 position, the TOD is effectively bypassed and all power goes to the rear wheels?

I have a 3in lift, and recently had my CV's done as they were damaged. If what I'm reading here is true, then having the hubs in the 4x2 position should help mitigate further cv damage?

I think I'd rather run with full TOD working, despite the CV issues. Should I switch the hubs over to 4x4 to get the benefit of TOD?

[Sprey]

I just noticed I have superwinch locking hubs up front. They have been in the 4x2 position ever since I bought it, as Ive never switched them to the 4x4 position.

My TOD indicators appear to work normally, and all this time I thought the TOD was in effect. Are you all saying that with the superwinch hubs in 4x2 position, the TOD is effectively bypassed and all power goes to the rear wheels?

I have a 3in lift, and recently had my CV's done as they were damaged. If what I'm reading here is true, then having the hubs in the 4x2 position should help mitigate further cv damage?

I think I'd rather run with full TOD working, despite the CV issues. Should I switch the hubs over to 4x4 to get the benefit of TOD?

When i switch my 2wd to Tod on my Vx definitly notice the steering feels more harder and more precise.

For the Tod bypassed all the hubs do is stop the power actualy going to the wheels but your transfer case and cvjoints are still turning just the power doesnt hit the wheels cause your in the hub disengaged mode aka 4x2.
Chuck it into 4x4 on the hubs and go for a run im sure youl notice the difference

[tom4bren]

I doubt you'll notice much of a difference whilst on the the road. The only significant difference will be off road or winter driving.

[PK]

I doubt you'll notice much of a difference whilst on the the road. The only significant difference will be off road or winter driving.

Sorry Tom, cannot agree with that.

As soon as I shift into TOD high, (from 2wd) there is a change in power, performance, handling and drive train noise.:yesgray:
Not bad, but definitely noticable. If I ever started off in TOD by accident, I would know before I got to 20KPH.

Mind you, it doesn't stop me from giving it a flogging through the snow and over the mountains in TOD when the mood dictates.:bwgy::smilewink:bgwo:

Regards

PK

[tom4bren]

OK, I stand corrected. If you drive on pavement like PK, WormGod or CSTYLES then maybe it'll make a noticable difference. If you drive NORMAL, you won't notice it.:)

[blujfan9293]

I switched my Superwinch hubs to 4x4 for the first time past weekend and I got better mileage, from 15.5 up to 17. But the noise was horrid! It sounded like dry gears running (I just had CV boot replaced and serviced, so I know it was fine). My handling markedly improved.

I had a torn CV boot; being in 4x2 probably staved off damage.

I see the comments about saving wear, but I wonder of the disadvantage of gears not getting use? I sticking to 4x4 mode.