converting regular cars to hybrids.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

I found this article on AOL that claims that for about $10k you will soon be able to convert a regular gas powered car to a form of electric hybrid that claims will double your current mileage. Plus, also mentions a kit to convert current hybrids (i.e. Prius) into full-blown plug-in electric power.


http://autos.aol.com/article/general/v2/_a/plug-in-hybrid-conversion-kit/20080729104209990001

"In late August, Poulsen Hybrid, based in Shelton, Conn., and run by Ulrik Poulsen, CEO of Bridgeport Magnetics, plans to offer a $7,000 conversion kit that turns any conventional car into a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle by mounting small electric motors onto the rear wheels. The Poulsen system also uses a lithium-ion battery pack and will double a car's gas mileage, says Poulsen, the system's creator. The company hasn't released data on how far the system will go on a single charge, but charging it would also cost less than a dollar, he says.

The company's website says owners can install the Poulsen Hybird conversion kit themselves in about 3 or 4 hours. But Poulsen is working to set up a network of authorized installers, which will market the kit and install it for an estimated fee of around $500 to $600. Poulsen hopes to have at least four authorized installers by the fall, including ones in California, Florida, Washington and possibly Connecticut.

VS Composites' $4,000 Electrocharger, due in 2009, also works with any conventional car, including ones whose engines have a turbocharger or supercharger -- good news for car enthusiasts, who seek out such engines for the added power and acceleration they bring. The Electrocharger improves fuel economy in city driving by almost 60 percent by replacing a vehicle's alternator with an electric generator, says Michael Van Steenburg, of VS Composites, based in Selma, Texas. Although the Electrocharger will be cheaper upfront than the Poulsen plug-in hybrid system, it will cost from $3 to $5 to juice the Electrocharger for a 50-mile range.

The Electrocharger can be installed by any mechanic, Van Steenburg says. "The connectors are color coded and unique for each connection. Our plan is to work with licensed installers who have been educated on all aspects of the system. Since installation takes about 3 hours, most professional service shops would charge about $180 to $225 for the install."

So........is this more snake-oil or is there an ounce of integrity to this stuff.....weigh-in people!

[circmand]

Come on convert an existing car to a hybrid and it will perform better than and car built as a Hybrid. If it sounds to good to be true it is. Also I am not sure but Poulsen guy the same one arrested for fraud a while back?

[taylorRichie]

Doesn't sound too good to be true to me... it just seems dumb.

$10,000 = 100+ *Fill ups = ~*30,000 miles So AFTER 30,000 miles(2.5 years average) you can start your savings. So if it doubles your gas mileage, the next 30,000 miles(2.5 years average) you'll SAVE ~$5,000 and it only takes 5 years to get there. By that time Gas will be $55/gallon (estimated based on current trends ;)) And you won't save anything, you'll just equalize.

As technology gets better, it's possible that the cost could come down on some form of retrofit system, but I'm sure they'll never be a reasonable alternative to buying a hybrid or economic car.

As for running a VX on water... this seems like a viable alternative :rolleyes: HA!

http://ecomodder.com/

This site has smart people who do weird things to get better gas mileage. Pretty neat, I'd like to get a metro/swift and put in some forklift motors.




*on a vehicross

[twistedsymphony]

I don't know about this kit... but for about $10K you can convert your car to 100% electric... with that you'll get about 100 miles on a charge, and a charge will cost about $2 in electricity.

just search youtube for "electric car"

Electric motors are quite small (about the size of a watermelon) and can either bolt directly to your drive shaft or to an existing transmission depending on how you want it setup.

The problem with electric motors is the storage of electricity. Most custom electric builds just use an f-ton of batteries... you literally kill 100% of your storage space with batteries. Most of them use up all the extra space in the engine bay for batteries too.

It's a great concept... no oil to change, no cooling system to explode, no gas to fill up, no fumes, no, no engine vibrations, no engine noise (though that's a bad thing for some :) ) and electric motors can easily make just as much torque as any internal combustion engine... Again the problem is the power storage.

In terms of "energy density" even though combustion engines have really low efficiency in terms of power output for the potential energy stored in the fuel, if you were to hollow out a car battery and fill it with gas it would contain WAY WAY more "energy" than that same battery fully charged.


Most GOOD gas/electric hybrids use special "motors" in the wheels that also serve as the brakes and act like generators when braking...

this helps alleviate the electric energy storage problem to a certain degree since every time you stop you're recycling your momentum and storing it back as electricity (obviously there are losses due to friction in everything but every little bit helps).... the Prius and others doe this which is why they don't need to be plugged in... and it's also why they get better city mileage than highway mileage (on the highway you rarely brake so you rarely have electric energy available to augment the combustion engine)

------------------

Is this guys "kit" snake-oil... I don't know
is it possible that someone could make a kit for ~$7K-$10K that would put motors in the wheels and cut your mileage in half... ABSOLUTELY.

motors cost $2K-$3K a piece, the rest of the cost is batteries and regulators which cost about $100-$200 a piece, and then of course random other small parts to make everything fit together. If someone were to develop a slightly cheaper more purpose built motor (since the motors people use are off the shelf industrial motors) and combine it with a small low cost battery system they could easily price in that range and double your mileage.

check out http://www.grassrootsev.com/ to see some of the motors and conversions people have done.

I don't know anyone who has built an electric car personally but I do know a few people who have built fully electric motorcycles... search youtube for "quit gas" to see one of them.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

Doesn't sound too good to be true to me... it just seems dumb.

$10,000 = 100+ *Fill ups = ~*30,000 miles So AFTER 30,000 miles(2.5 years average) you can start your savings. So if it doubles your gas mileage, the next 30,000 miles(2.5 years average) you'll SAVE ~$5,000 and it only takes 5 years to get there. By that time Gas will be $55/gallon (estimated based on current trends ;)) And you won't save anything, you'll just equalize.

As technology gets better, it's possible that the cost could come down on some form of retrofit system, but I'm sure they'll never be a reasonable alternative to buying a hybrid or economic car.

As for running a VX on water... this seems like a viable alternative :rolleyes: HA!

http://ecomodder.com/

This site has smart people who do weird things to get better gas mileage. Pretty neat, I'd like to get a metro/swift and put in some forklift motors.




*on a vehicross


Very interesting viewpoint. After reading the article I saw the product(s) aimed at the consumer that doesn't want to trade-in or sell their existing ride in favor of a new (or close to new) vehicle for the sake of better fuel mileage. In short, many people will trade in an older vehicle and go in debt (or pay outright $$$$) over a new one just to gain like 10+ mpg. THAT always seemed stupid to me.

Let's just say you are a company that wants to take advantage of what could be perceived as a "resession". You see people "stuck" with cars that are now becoming obsolete due to less than admirable MPG. They want a car that gets better MPG but don't have the funding to buy a new one. Than, along comes some company like in the article offering a product that (hopefully) performs as promised. Now these people have an option of keeping "ole reliable" and spending say $7k plus install and getting (hopefully) twice the MPG they were getting.

I mean...one could argue to trade in the the Oldsmobile/Buick they've had in their family for 10 years and get zippo for it tradewise or outright and go in hock for a new cobalt which in their eyes might be 1/2 the car they currently own. So they strap-on (please, no jokes) this device onto their beloved Olds/Buick etc...family wagon and get maybe up to 10 more years out of it (provided gas isn't $55 per gallon :p).

I have no urge to buy any of these devices but simply found them thought-provoking in whether they could possibly function as marketed and would they truly save money or not.

But, lets say people on this site want to keep their VX for many years to come; however, they don't think they can continue to afford the costs due to many reasons (i.e. increasing gas prices, income not keeping up with spending, family evolving, etc..). Just look how many VX's keep popping up for sale. THAT should be an indication that some people COULD be hurting. THIS could possibly (my views about it are pessimistic) be an option where you strap-on this device to your VX axle and perhaps get the MPG of a unibody SUV???

I liken these products to the hover-conversion in Back 2 The Future...lol. Do you trade-in the beloved DeLorean for one of those new hovering cars or do you get your DeLorean upgraded with the new "Hover Conversion". :-)


Thanks for the input!

[creeg]

I don't know about this kit... but for about $10K you can convert your car to 100% electric... with that you'll get about 100 miles on a charge, and a charge will cost about $2 in electricity.

just search youtube for "electric car"

Electric motors are quite small (about the size of a watermelon) and can either bolt directly to your drive shaft or to an existing transmission depending on how you want it setup.

The problem with electric motors is the storage of electricity. Most custom electric builds just use an f-ton of batteries... you literally kill 100% of your storage space with batteries. Most of them use up all the extra space in the engine bay for batteries too.

It's a great concept... no oil to change, no cooling system to explode, no gas to fill up, no fumes, no, no engine vibrations, no engine noise (though that's a bad thing for some :) ) and electric motors can easily make just as much torque as any internal combustion engine... Again the problem is the power storage.

In terms of "energy density" even though combustion engines have really low efficiency in terms of power output for the potential energy stored in the fuel, if you were to hollow out a car battery and fill it with gas it would contain WAY WAY more "energy" than that same battery fully charged.


Most GOOD gas/electric hybrids use special "motors" in the wheels that also serve as the brakes and act like generators when braking...

this helps alleviate the electric energy storage problem to a certain degree since every time you stop you're recycling your momentum and storing it back as electricity (obviously there are losses due to friction in everything but every little bit helps).... the Prius and others doe this which is why they don't need to be plugged in... and it's also why they get better city mileage than highway mileage (on the highway you rarely brake so you rarely have electric energy available to augment the combustion engine)

------------------

Is this guys "kit" snake-oil... I don't know
is it possible that someone could make a kit for ~$7K-$10K that would put motors in the wheels and cut your mileage in half... ABSOLUTELY.

motors cost $2K-$3K a piece, the rest of the cost is batteries and regulators which cost about $100-$200 a piece, and then of course random other small parts to make everything fit together. If someone were to develop a slightly cheaper more purpose built motor (since the motors people use are off the shelf industrial motors) and combine it with a small low cost battery system they could easily price in that range and double your mileage.

check out http://www.grassrootsev.com/ to see some of the motors and conversions people have done.

I don't know anyone who has built an electric car personally but I do know a few people who have built fully electric motorcycles... search youtube for "quit gas" to see one of them.

You are right on the money, twistedsymphony

Converting a gas vehicle to hybrid is a lot of work and sounds expensive. Im skeptical about the performance too. Its much better to convert to all-electric. You wont get the range of a hybrid (you will get about 30-60 miles for an EV, more if you use AC instead of DC), but it will work fine. I just bought a Porsche 914 that has been converted to all-electric and am going to install fresh batteries and get it running in the next month or so (its been sitting for a couple years, needs a little bit of work).

I am very skeptical about shoehorning a hybrid AND batteries into a car. Its hard enough to fit all the batteries for an EV.

And re the prius conversion to all-electric: you can get that done now by certified companies that will NOT void your warranty.

Im done with all-gas (except my VX of course) which I will use on the weekends and for longer trips. I plan on bicycling and using the 914 EV for every possible trip I can.

[kodiak]

EV Porsche 914! Where are the pix, that sound really cool!:eek:

[creeg]

Mine needs some work, but you can view these fine specimens to get an idea of what other people have done

http://www.evalbum.com/type/PORS

Im going for a Rat-Rod look to mine: flat black with a big "Electric shock danger" sign on the doors and hood instead of a skull and crossbones

http://www.officesafety.co.uk/images/products/643_large.jpg

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

Mine needs some work, but you can view these fine specimens to get an idea of what other people have done

http://www.evalbum.com/type/PORS

Im going for a Rat-Rod look to mine: flat black with a big "Electric shock danger" sign on the doors and hood instead of a skull and crossbones

http://www.officesafety.co.uk/images/products/643_large.jpg


neat 'o' rama! I had no idea so many people were playing around with this conversion. Thanks for sharing!

[twistedsymphony]

There seems to be quite a few 914s converted to EV... I guess the light mid engine setup makes it a good platform
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWPiUd9nMWA

other cars converted to electric: EVALBUM COM

I'd love to go 100% electric... but my commute too far, for an EV to be practical.

I've been looking into Solar Hot-water for my home... they can supposedly reduce your home heating costs as much as 80% which is quite handy. these days it costs me a grand to fill my home heating oil tank, and that gets done 4 times a year :mad:

If battery tech was to improve such that they were half their current size with double their current range, and roughly the same price, I'd probably convert nearly every car I own.

EDIT:
Wouldn't you know what article I came across on my daily visit to hackaday.com (http://www.hackaday.com/2008/07/31/breakthrough-in-water-based-energy-storage/#comments) Apparently MIT found a way to store engery with water that is more efficient than modern batteries.
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2008/oxygen-0731.html
http://web.mit.edu/chemistry/dgn/www/research/e_conversion.html
http://web.mit.edu/chemistry/dgn/www/research/pcet2.html