Better Mpg

[SYNTHETICDARKNESS]

MY VX GETS 22-25 MPG AND I USE LASER IRIDIUM PLUGS, 93 OCTANE, MOBILE ONE, AND WEAPON R INTAKE, BUT I AM GOING TO INSTALL HYDROGEN FROM WWW.SAVEFUEL.CA. I INSTALLED ONE ON THE CRV AND WE ARE GETTING ABOUT 42-45 MPG AND SOON AS OUR SCANGAUGE COMES TO ADJUST IT WE SHOULD GET ABOUT 60-70 MPG. I HOPE THAT THIS HELPS MY FELLOW VX'ERS THAT WAY MEETING'S WOULD BE SO MUCH EASIER TO GO TO NO MATTER WHERE THEY ARE. I WILL BE POSTING PICS IN SYNTHETICDARKNESS SO YOU CAN SEE HOW SIMPLE EVERYTHING IS. IF ANYONE HAS ANY QUESTION FEEL FREE TO ASK.:bwgy:

[twistedsymphony]

that's great that you're getting good mileage, let us know how that kit works out for you.

Would you mind NOT posting in all caps?
Writing words in caps is the equivalent of SHOUTING, on a message board or forum. Re-read your post in a shouting voices and see how ridiculous it seems. :p

[taylorRichie]

That's awesome...

I don't have 93 anywhere near me, but 91 costs about 30¢ more per gallon, so unless it gives a ~7% increase in MPGs I'll stick with 87.

I'm using Mobile 1, and stock intake.

Is your Weapon R sucking in Warm Air? One of the first things Eco Modders do is install a WARM AIR INTAKE, it'll increase MPGs substantially, but at the expense of Engine performance.

I'd love to see what kind of results you get with the Hydrogen kit, that's very intriguing, and only costs the same as a couple tanks of gas :D (~$250 - $1250)

Which kit are you getting?

[SYNTHETICDARKNESS]

sorry, i just like writing in all caps. well we have the sl-75 on the crv, and i will be getting the same for the vx. our 93 is only 10 cents more up here. we gotta get our scangauge before we start messing with the amps of the hydrogen, to expensive to buy 1 gallon at a time to keep adjusting. i know running the higher octane though made a slight difference all round, you just gotta run it for a couple tanks, as for the intake it's a mix of hot and cold, but i heard all kinds of different ways hotter or colder, guess i just gotta find out with the scangauge. i have the ram air kit for it so i can check normal, then with the kit on. i will keep everyone informed.

[WiSDoM]

did you guys try checking your tire presssure? it is all over the news. proper inflation= no off shore drilling:)

[taylorRichie]

did you guys try checking your tire presssure? it is all over the news. proper inflation= no off shore drilling:)

You know there are two sides to the tire inflation deal.

1- over inflated / highly inflated = less rolling resistance = better MPG
2- under inflated = smaller rolling diameter = better MPG

"Shifting into 4WD" by Harry Lewellyn make the claim that lower PSI = higher MPG.

Someone should run a test using LT tires. 40 PSI, 35 PSI and 30 PSI.

I'd do it, but I haven't driven my car in almost 4 weeks, so It'd take me a while to go through 3 tanks of gas ;) I'm still on the tank of gas I filled up BEFORE I ran the trail with Todd, and Zeus.

Please keep us posted on your hydrogen findings. :thumbup:

[SYNTHETICDARKNESS]

we tested that tire inflation and it was about 1 mpg, but then if you run all the time on over inflated tires you end up running the tread down so you have to fork out 3-800 in new tires, but if you think dropping pressure in your tire that would be dangerous, your tire would rip apart after so long, but you could probably put smaller wheels on that would be safer, but i'm going for my 20" 275/45/20 hankook. now you can advanced the timing a little and that will help, and also help with power also, but gotta watch you don't go to far or you'll get detenation. i know aligning has a big part to everything, if you were out of alignment like our honda was we were losing about 3-5 mpg, because you are giving more gas to overcome the directions the tires want to go. lowering a vehicle also gives you about 1 mpg. i've done research on alot of this and also have done it. i got my gauge today and have been messing around with it. still need to drill though until they can get something else invented that everyone can afford. don't you love have they whine about everything then come out with stuff and only rich people can buy it, kinda like that 700 hp electric car, be nice to have one of those, but were from pa lol.:_drool:

[So-CalVX]

we tested that tire inflation and it was about 1 mpg, but then if you run all the time on over inflated tires you end up running the tread down so you have to fork out 3-800 in new tires. now you can advanced the timing a little and that will help, and also help with power also, but gotta watch you don't go to far or you'll get detenation. i know aligning has a big part to everything, if you were out of alignment like our honda was we were losing about 3-5 mpg, because you are giving more gas to overcome the directions the tires want to go. lowering a vehicle also gives you about 1 mpg. i've done research on alot of this and also have done it. i got my gauge today and have been messing around with it.

u didn't lower the VX..... RIGHT :rolleyes:
im still trying to figure out 16 mpg.... how the french are u managing 22+... thats 500 miles per tank!!
^ i want that ^

[circmand]

high or low within proper range. The Dueler tires that came as OE have a range of 29psi to 40 psi. I would not go higher or lower but this gives you a nice range

[Ruflyf]

MY VX GETS 22-25 MPG AND I USE LASER IRIDIUM PLUGS, 93 OCTANE, MOBILE ONE, AND WEAPON R INTAKE, BUT I AM GOING TO INSTALL HYDROGEN FROM WWW.SAVEFUEL.CA. I INSTALLED ONE ON THE CRV AND WE ARE GETTING ABOUT 42-45 MPG AND SOON AS OUR SCANGAUGE COMES TO ADJUST IT WE SHOULD GET ABOUT 60-70 MPG. I HOPE THAT THIS HELPS MY FELLOW VX'ERS THAT WAY MEETING'S WOULD BE SO MUCH EASIER TO GO TO NO MATTER WHERE THEY ARE. I WILL BE POSTING PICS IN SYNTHETICDARKNESS SO YOU CAN SEE HOW SIMPLE EVERYTHING IS. IF ANYONE HAS ANY QUESTION FEEL FREE TO ASK.:bwgy:

Very interesting. can you elaberate on how it works? Fill ups are just water? or distilled water? How long has it been installed on the CRV? Also how is the scangauge going to improve mileage of the Hydrogen add on?
Thx

[twistedsymphony]

You know there are two sides to the tire inflation deal.

1- over inflated / highly inflated = less rolling resistance = better MPG
2- under inflated = smaller rolling diameter = better MPG

"Shifting into 4WD" by Harry Lewellyn make the claim that lower PSI = higher MPG.

Someone should run a test using LT tires. 40 PSI, 35 PSI and 30 PSI.

I'd do it, but I haven't driven my car in almost 4 weeks, so It'd take me a while to go through 3 tanks of gas ;) I'm still on the tank of gas I filled up BEFORE I ran the trail with Todd, and Zeus.

Please keep us posted on your hydrogen findings. :thumbup:
Theoretically larger rolling diameter will increase highway MPG... the reason is because it changes the ratio of RPMs to tire rotations such that your engine doesn't need to spin as fast to go the same speed.

the down side is added weight which means it takes more energy to build momentum (eg: stop and go city traffic mileage would be worse).

Wider tires will suck down your MPG because the more contact area you've got the more rolling resistance exists, especially when turning.

consider that most people running 33s are also running 12.5" wide as well... the wider track and added weight will do more damage than the added diameter will help.

Proper alignment and proper inflation help too.

if you want the best mileage though you're looking at installing some wagon wheels on your VX :bwgy:

seriously though.. I've heard from more than one trooper owner that the 3.5L with factory gearing likes 265/70/R16s the best for MPG... moving to that size over the factory 245s was good for 1-2 MPG (that's a 5-10% increase right there)

By that metric consider that moving to higher octane may increase your mileage by 1-2 MPG would be more than enough to eat the extra cost of the fuel.

------------

Personally, I'm wondering how much damage the EGR valve is doing...

[SYNTHETICDARKNESS]

well all the stuff i did to get the mpg is in one of my post on here. i use distilled water and koh which adding koh makes amps in the gen, more koh more amps up to around 20 or so total using electrolysis. the scan gauge lets me check all my sens to see what they are running at and if they are doing what they are supposed to be, on top of that it let's me know my mpg as i drive which knowing that you can even increase your gas, kinda like a teacher showing you how to do it the right way i guess (poor example, but i'm tired). the gauge is worth it wether you have anything or not, knowing everything about your vehicle is priceless. the tire thing is pretty good also, but such a pain to experiment with. we've had the unit on the crv for about 3 months, then finally got our gauge, and after leaning it out we are about 60 avg. mpg. didn't lower the vx, probably not going to. gotta remember though about bigger tires slower speed, smaller tires faster speed, even though the speedometer will be off, in my opinion it takes more effort to move something bigger then something smaller, kinda like a underdrive pulley. we might buy a map sens enhancer so we can adjust rich to lean from inside the vehicle, makes it so much easier. i think i'm gonna pimp out the vx with 45" amish wheels lol.

[WormGod]

i think i'm gonna pimp out the vx with 45" amish wheels lol.

Mount a horse up to the front of the VX at that point and I can guarantee an even greater decrease in gas. The first ever "hay powered VX"! :eek:

[circmand]

[QUOTE=twistedsymphony;133308]Theoretically larger rolling diameter will increase highway MPG... the reason is because it changes the ratio of RPMs to tire rotations such that your engine doesn't need to spin as fast to go the same speed.

the down side is added weight which means it takes more energy to build momentum (eg: stop and go city traffic mileage would be worse).


I get that but once you decide on the tire size it seems to me max inflation is the way to go because you get max diameter, minimum rolling resistance and the air dowsnt weigh anything. Or am I missing something?

[Ldub]

Mount a horse up to the front of the VX at that point and I can guarantee an even greater decrease in gas. The first ever "hay powered VX"! :eek:

LOL...I can see it now...:rolleyesg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/1102281966_poor_donkey.jpg

[taylorRichie]

Theoretically larger rolling diameter will increase highway MPG... {/snippit}


All of what you posted makes sense... Thanks :D

[don moore]

I dont get it(scratching head):confused:....put water were? and W.T.H. is a KOH?
sorry Im dumb.:p

[SYNTHETICDARKNESS]

you put the distilled water in the generator and it will take the hydrogen out of the water and air 2:1 atomic ratio. koh is potassium hydrocide. love the pic. let you know the results when i retard the timing to go with the hydrogen.

[darkl4805]

Interested in how much power is lost (or gained) by switching to Hydrogen. Also, is there a conversion kit for the stock engine?

[SYNTHETICDARKNESS]

well we retarded the timing and the f@$^en computer keeps adjusting right back to were it was, did everything by the book. so we just bought the map sens enhancer so we can lean it out or make it more rich from inside the car to bypass the computer. as for the power the hill by our house without the hydro we pressed the pedal about half way to go up it, and with the hydro it's a 1/4 of the way pressed so it makes a big diff when it's on. if you take a .99 big grab bag of chips fill it with gas fumes then light it it makes a little pop but more like a swish sound, with the hydro it's like an m-100 going off. you can watch people on youtube blowing stuff up with the hydro from home made cans and it's pretty funny to watch some of them. you really don't need to do anything to the engine and you have a 30 day money back garentee the kits are made for specific engine sizes, but if your computer keeps readjusting for your timing then you need a map sens enhancer which is only $54 shipped. don't be fooled buy some of the units, we checked on ebay and they are made of plastics and to me that is just not safe when you are making a highly explosive gas. always look for the garentee and how long a company has been around, and if you can find other sources about the company not just what they say also.

[So-CalVX]

Wait wait wait.....
More power AND better mileage???
For how much?

[SYNTHETICDARKNESS]

don't know exactly how much power, but it's snappier then before, gas have no idea until we get the enhancer, but we figure it should be between 10 and 30 mpg extra from what we get hopefully, but until our other sens enhancer comes we don't know, and the kit we bought was about 1100 and it's for around and 8.0L. we just hope this works like we think, and some of the research we did.

[WormGod]

LOL...I can see it now...:rolleyesg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/1102281966_poor_donkey.jpg

Only true if your VX really was an Amish tuner. :p

[VehiGAZ]

Good luck with your science project! I hope you don't explode! :flame:

I guess it's pretty obvious that I'm a skeptic when it comes to these hydrogen fuel enhancements. I just hope no one screws up their engines playing with explosive gasses. Insurance will most likely not cover a fire loss claim when they figure out that the owner installed a hydrogen generator on their engine.

[SYNTHETICDARKNESS]

nothing wrong with being a skeptic that's what we are so i know where your coming from, but hey what the h#ll can write it off for taxes on the irs website, and on top of that you get your own firecracker maker. still waiting for the sens still in mo.. so far the engine in the old ladies car is fine, checked throttle body no signs of anything nice and shinny, plus her vehicle is the test vehicle, couldn't do that to my poor vx now until i know for sure:bwgy:. i'm pretty safe from blowing up the bubbler keeps everything safe if it backfires, and if not i believe our ins co covers just about everything, but it's fun filling bags up to show people what it does, boy is it loud.

[Riff Raff]

[QUOTE=twistedsymphony;133308]Theoretically larger rolling diameter will increase highway MPG... the reason is because it changes the ratio of RPMs to tire rotations such that your engine doesn't need to spin as fast to go the same speed.

the down side is added weight which means it takes more energy to build momentum (eg: stop and go city traffic mileage would be worse).


I get that but once you decide on the tire size it seems to me max inflation is the way to go because you get max diameter, minimum rolling resistance and the air dowsnt weigh anything. Or am I missing something?


Basically, the added weight from oversize tires comes from the simple fact that there is more material rubber required to manufacture the bigger tire (more rubber material = more weight).

Remember, it takes "x" amount of energy (gasoline), to move "x" amount of weight (in this case wheel & tire). The ideal solution in gaining maximum MPG with tires & wheels is to run the "tallest" tire that will fit (maximum O.D. = lower engine RPMs for same speed); at the "max PSI" (per sidewall label = least rolling resistance); with the "narrowest" available tread (low section width = less drag); mounted on an all aluminum lightweight wheel like CenterLines (reduced wheel weight = reduced overall weight). Thus, having said that-- an example of the most "economical" tire & wheel combination to mount on the VX is the TOYO - Open Country A/T in 255/70R18 (32.1" O.D., only 10.3" wide, weighs only 41 lbs) and mounted on lightweight aluminum wheels (such as Centerlines).

[twistedsymphony]

you're right that more weight = bad

but there is a difference between weight added to the rotating elements of a vehicle (ie: wheels/tires/driveshaft/flywheel) and just adding weight to the vehicle overall.

obviously keeping the weight down will improve nearly every aspect of the vehicles performance... however when talking about weight in the drive train that weight dramatically effects acceleration... in most vehicles 1lb added to the drive train effects acceleration and deceleration as much as adding 10lbs to the overall vehicle weight. This obviously varies depending on the drive train but the point is that keeping the weight down in the wheels and tires is MORE important to performance/economy than just keeping it down.

That's not even talking about the benefits to handling characteristics. The suspension works better with a lower amount of "unsprung weight" (eg: the amount of weight on the rubbery side of the suspension mechanism).

It's all about momentum... it takes more effort to get heavier tires moving or stopping... be it rotating or bouncing up over a bump in the road....

It's why racers swap out their heavy flywheels and steel drive shafts for light weight aluminum versions... they might only save 50lbs to the overall vehicle weight, it doesn't add any hp or torque but it changes the acceleration characteristics as if they'd dropped nearly 500lbs off the total weight.

[SYNTHETICDARKNESS]

well we got the sens enhancer, got it all sodered on and went down the road for a little tuning, city driving around 45-55 then highways was around 60-70. had it a little to lean though when i first started stalled in my driveway:eek:, but after playing for a while i finally got all the controls where they are supposed to be, and no check engine lights saying to lean or anything now, and it runs normal with the hydrogen, but when we shut it off we don't have much power. we are still gonna take it and hook up an air/fuel gauge to make sure everything is reading were it should be for the safe side. i'm just friggen happy it works, wish we could get 100 mpg, but that will probably never happen. all we do have to do now is drive around and test, make sure everything holds good, and if it does, my little vx will have one. as for the tires everyone has there opinions about them, but mine i still think the smaller/lighter the easier, just like having two of the same vehicles one big wheels, and one small going a steady 65 then putting it in neutral and see what one stops first. to me the one with less friction will keep going, because there is less to stop. by the way do they make aluminum driveshafts and flywheels for the vx.:bwgy: likes to get me them if they do.

[taylorRichie]

Please keep me/us posted on your VX install... I'd really like to give it ago... especially if I can write off the reactor :D (link please)

As for Aluminum Driveshafts, I'm sure any place that makes custom driveshafts for race cars and off road performance can make them for you.

Thanks for keeping us up to date :thumbup:

[SYNTHETICDARKNESS]

that place where we bought ours is www.savefuel.ca, it took a couple weeks before we got it so just depending on how many people are ordering depends on how quick you get everything. we love that it's working so far, so as time goes on i will keep everyone up to date on the progress of everything. as for the flywheel and everything i'll have to see how many fingers i gotta cut off to have them custom made. you can go to the irs website and look at the write offs it's in there somewhere i think with hybrid vehicles or something. this would be easy to install on my vx with my intake could go right behind the drivers side headlight.

[twistedsymphony]

The best place to get a new driveshaft is from these guys: http://shaftmasters.com/

They're known to make really high quality well balanced drive shafts.

DO NOT get one from Drive Shaft Shop... they don't balance their shafts :mad:

[SYNTHETICDARKNESS]

thanks for the info, called and they said about 300, but with the way our driveshafts are they can't do them in aluminum, dang it. crv still running great, with the high mpgs, and did my usual checks to make sure there are no computer errors.

[So-CalVX]

How are ours different?
I'll bet if u called on a SWB trooper they'd say, "no problem"

[Thmstec]

This post is just in relation to getting good MPG, thought this would be a good place to put the post.

I just got to doing calculations about all the traveling I was doing over the past 3 weeks. So here are the results with all sorts of fun details:
Stock 99 VX, 87 octane only, roof rack, loaded trunk (seats folded, stuff stacked to ceiling loaded)

1st Trip: Leesburg, Virginia to Huntsville, AL. 5:30 PM EST till 5:15 AM EST. Mobile 1 (I switched it to Mobile 1 when I got it, so this was sorta the "clean up" oil cycle from whatever the old owner used). Average speed 70mph. No cruise control. All freeway. Drafting off an overloaded mazda b4000 pickup (ford ranger). AND a guesstimate 3 ounces of acetone per 10 gallons of gas. 22 MPG AVERAGE

2nd/3rd Trip: Huntsville, AL to Auburn, AL and then back again two days later. During normal hours. Same as above except- not all freeway, average 65mph with about 20 min of stop and go traffic mixed in. 20 MPG AVERAGE

4th trip: Huntville, AL to O'Fallon, IL. 6:00 PM CST till 2:00 AM CST. This time no acetone. 45mph cruise w/draft for 1 hour (darn contruction and traffic that slows for it). rest with 70mph cruise w/out drafting. Cruise control the whole time. >85% freeway. 21 MPG AVERAGE

in-between 4th and 5th I do an oil change- mobile 1 and 12 ounces marvel mystery oil in the oil, 4 ounces mmo thrown in the next fill-up.

5th trip: O'Fallon to Huntville. Noon CST till 6:30 PM CST. No acetone. Marvel Mystery Oil has was a fill-up ago. 70mph cruise w/out draft (no contruction prob this time). same >85% freeway route. Cruise control the whole time. 24 MPG AVERAGE

6th trip: Huntsville to Auburn. Late afternoon trip. Not all freeway, cruise average 65 with about 20 min stop and go mixed in. Drafting off truck again. No cruise control. No acetone. 22 MPG AVERAGE


Thoughts/conclusions and other tidbits:

Acetone did smooth out idle, but then when I stopped putting it in, it was still smoother than it use to be :confused:. I believe it did improve milage, but I can't say for certain it is because of optimized vaporization.

Before this 3 week period of heavy traveling this VX was mostly city driven. I normally got anywhere between 13mpg and 16mpg. Never tried acetone before the trips.

Drafting helped when the roads were flat and the lead car was in cruise control. But hills revealed that the cruise control in the VX was quicker to speed up than the Mazda, which was problematic enough for me to stop using cruise control. So it felt like cruise control was better for MPG than drafting. Not enough tests to say definitively though.

Marvel Mystery Oil seems to REALLY help- even more than acetone.

I never ran the tank below 1/8th, most of the time I filled up around 1/4th just to eliminate any variables a close to empty tank can result in. Although a pic of OVER 400 miles on the trip-o-meter was quite tempting.

Wish I had the chance to try MMO and Acetone together to see what the combined effects would be and further verify acetone's effectiveness. But I can say with certainty trying either one of these things will improve your milage.


WOW that ended up being a long post. Sorry to threadjack SYNTHETICDARKNESS- But I hope this multitude of info proves useful to my fellow VXers. If I get the chance I'll follow up with some city mpg tests I will. But I think there are just too many variables in driving around town (not to mind how much self discipline it would take to drive consistently around town) for anything <35% changes in mpg to be definitive, and I doubt that I'm getting that much.

[JHarris1385]

Real quick - I agree with the above....I ran about 10 tanks with acetone and gained about 3-4mpg.... I switched to my 20 rims and 31 tires which are heavier than my 265/75-16 and now without any acetone I get 17.1-17.4 mpg (compared to the last time I ran this setup I was getting 13.6-14.1) The VX just runs cleaner now.

[SYNTHETICDARKNESS]

no problem, love when people are very detailed, I thought that's what these threads are for, especially people like me and the others that love the detail that explains how people do things a certain way to get the results. I took mine down to pittsburgh friday and I filled up here I'd say half was highway, then rest city going through pittsburgh made me bald, but anyways I had about 34 psi in all tires, oil was good, everything fine, drove around home for a while and I got 495 then I ran out of gas a mile away from the station oops:bwgy:, but it is so hilly over here up down up down and on the straights my scangauge said 29 to 30 at 70 mph until I had to give it a wee bit of gas then it went down around 22-25 mpg. I wanted to use the acetone, but afraid it might eat away seals, think I will buy some and put it in a container then put some gaskets and seals and let it sit over time to see what happens, I've heard of people getting 2 to 3 mpg extra running it, but I can't seem to find big sources on the internet with info, lots of people though, but I need more, gee sound like a woman (no offense to any ladies).:o , but in our honda we are getting around 50 to 70 and we are around 500 miles at little under half a tank. if this works I'm getting me my own. I have no idea about the tire thing though maybe your getting better because the throttle response might be touchier, you'll have to let us know. As for our shaft he seen a picture of one and said he couldn't, but he could make one just not aluminum.:(