HHO Generator (Gas mileage thread)

[crager34]

I did a search, but didn't see any topics, so I am wondering if anyone has some info on this product, or type of mod.

http://www.freemelabs.com/store/

[kodiak]

It’s just another brown gas generator, you can make one your self a lot cheaper then that.

[bentcipher]

Do we have any fellow owners that successfully implemented this method?

[SYNTHETICDARKNESS]

we put one on our crv and went from mix avg 25-30 to mix 45-50, you can buy the units, but you need alot more in order for them to work right, and on highway it is about 50-65, still need one more thing then were done. make sure you have a scangauge or something to moniter all the functions that way you can set it up right.

[VehiGAZ]

"Match in the gas tank - BOOM! BOOM!"

(Name the movie...)

[crager34]

I understand the hose from the unit gets placed in the air intake for a mixture with the gas. Still a boom boom situation? Seems relativly safe though.

Also, I understand one can build this fairly cheap, but having it done professionally seems to help negate the boom boom factor a bit.

[FreemeLabs]

I did a search, but didn't see any topics, so I am wondering if anyone has some info on this product, or type of mod.

http://www.freemelabs.com/store/


Hey Crager,

Thanks for the question. I know you might think I'm a bit biased about our product, but I'd be happy to answer any and all of this forum's questions about HHO/hydroxy generators.

There is a great deal of competition out there, and I encourage you to do your research. If you choose to build your own, please be very careful, as building it incorrectly can do damage to your vehicle or simply not work. If you would like to try it, we can provide you with some resources that will protect you from making such mistakes. You might want to consider buying a guide, which some of our partnering sites provide, or you might be able to get away with just watching a bunch of YouTube videos and learning from them.

In any case, whether you're interested in buying ours, or a competitor's or building your own, feel free to call me or e-mail with any questions you have. I would be happy to help you in any way I can.

Kurt Theobald
CEO
Freeme Labs

web: http://www.freemelabs.com/
e-mail: kurt@freemelabs.com
phone: 417.824.0950

[FreemeLabs]

One more thing...

Here's a video overview of the Freeme HHO generator:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LYRaGzSH74 (5 mins)

Here's a quick update; don't watch this until after watching the overview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uscn-pM_SbM (1 min)


Also, we're seeking resellers and certified technicians, so if anyone would be interested, fill out our forms on the front page of our website.

Kurt

kurt@freemelabs.com
http://www.freemelabs.com
417.824.0950

[VehiGAZ]

Match in the gas tank - CLICK!! CLICK!! (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108550/)

[circmand]

The branch of the government who tests these things has reported none of them work to a measurable degree that cant be duplicated by driving responsibly. Mythbusters tested several of these MPG increasers and none of them worked. If what you have is so easy and works so good why cant a reputable 3rd party duplicate it and back it up. And I am not talking some back yard mechanic on utube.

[FreemeLabs]

The branch of the government who tests these things has reported none of them work to a measurable degree that cant be duplicated by driving responsibly. Mythbusters tested several of these MPG increasers and none of them worked. If what you have is so easy and works so good why cant a reputable 3rd party duplicate it and back it up. And I am not talking some back yard mechanic on utube.


A lot of people have asked me that, and it is a valid question. All I can say is I've spoken with many reputable third-party mechanics, and some are in strong approval of HHO generators in vehicles, and others are opponents. The opponents have either never tried it or had a bad experience with one of the pieces of junk on the market, or they tested the technology before it was developed enough to be used effectively.

As for Mythbusters, I don't know specifically what they tested, so I can't really regard that.

When we first heard about these systems, one of my business partners and I asked the question: If these really work, why isn't this a huge product? Everyone needs better gas mileage. The answer, we found, was a culmination of things: 1. Lack of quality in current product offerings. 2. The HHO unit overheating. 3. Lots of negative mass media coverage of the product. 4. Horrible marketing by existing HHO generator distributors. 5. Unprofessional design and difficult installation. 6. Laborious maintenance.

I called up a friend of mine that I trust that had mentioned he had been looking into these systems and attempting to develop something better. After speaking with him and seeing a very successful operating unit on my brother's SUV, we decided it warranted greater time investment. In the following, months, I was convinced of the systems effectiveness. We overcame the overheating issue through an intelligent design, and our system has a much more professional design than anything else out there (see the videos in my recent post). Furthermore, we are working on engineering the best pre-wired setup to make installation as simple as possible, and we're developing the best electrolyte solutions in an effort to make it easier to maintain.

I won't go into the vested interest the government has in opposing this technology, but it's there. We know there is a lot of negative public opinion out there, and it's a difficult marketing environment. So we decided to offer a 15-day satisfaction guarantee to overcome the doubt int the market and to allow our customers the ease of mind of being able to purchase, install, and test the system to make sure it is genuinely increasing fuel economy and operating to satisfaction.

We don't want to sell something if it doesn't work for you. That's why we have the guarantee. We are developing a business that is built to last on a solid technology that hasn't been well-implemented to this point.

I hope someone who is reputable and creditable on this forum buys a unit and tests it so that there will be conclusion to the question. And like I said, if it doesn't work, send it back within 15 days, and we'll refund your money minus shipping.

[Ldub]

We don't want to sell something if it doesn't work for you. That's why we have the guarantee. We are developing a business that is built to last on a solid technology that hasn't been well-implemented to this point.

I hope someone who is reputable and creditable on this forum buys a unit and tests it so that there will be conclusion to the question. And like I said, if it doesn't work, send it back within 15 days, and we'll refund your money minus shipping.

Call me skeptical, but a fifteen day guarantee???

I can't think of a single other well engineered product on the planet that isn't guaranteed for at least a month, with 90 days being closer to the average minimum.

There are others here who have made claims of wonderful increases in mileage on "other" vehicles that they own, but somehow, the technology hasn't worked on their VehiCROSS...:rolleyesg

Like I said, call me skepticable...:smilewink

[FreemeLabs]

Just for clarity,

The 15-day satisfaction guarantee is not for the purpose of guaranteeing longevity; longevity isn't buyers' #1 concern. Their #1 concern is whether it improves their gas mileage. It doesn't take 90 or 60 or even 30 days to figure that out. It takes about 100 miles of driving. That's why we offer a 15-day satisfaction guarantee.

As for whether it works on a Vehicross or not, I know that it COULD work on a Vehicross, but I don't know the in-depth mechanics and electronics of Vehicross to know what's inhibiting improvement in mpg. It could be a sensor system that exists that wasn't properly regarded. The MAF, MAP, and O2 sensors can all negatively affect and even nullify or invert an HHO generators influence on gas mileage. For very few vehicles, I think it is possible the electrical manipulation required makes it cost-prohibitive to re-engineer the vehicle to accept HHO, and the Vehicross MIGHT be one of those, but without know much about them, I couldn't say.

However, we are working on a comprehensive solution that plugs into the OBD-I/II port that will allow easy and immediate manipulation of the electrical inputs to ensure that the vehicle accepts and uses HHO efficiently.

By the way, we really appreciate your skepticism. It encourages us to double- and triple-check our findings and then make it obviously true through demonstration. I would ask, though, that your skepticism be a union of openness and scrutiny rather than mere criticism. Without both ingredients, real progress is impossible.

[FreemeLabs]

Just for clarity,

The 15-day satisfaction guarantee is not for the purpose of guaranteeing longevity; longevity isn't buyers' #1 concern. Their #1 concern is whether it improves their gas mileage. It doesn't take 90 or 60 or even 30 days to figure that out. It takes about 100 miles of driving. That's why we offer a 15-day satisfaction guarantee.

As for whether it works on a Vehicross or not, I know that it COULD work on a Vehicross, but I don't know the in-depth mechanics and electronics of Vehicross to know what's inhibiting improvement in mpg. It could be a sensor system that exists that wasn't properly regarded. The MAF, MAP, and O2 sensors can all negatively affect and even nullify or invert an HHO generators influence on gas mileage. For very few vehicles, I think it is possible the electrical manipulation required makes it cost-prohibitive to re-engineer the vehicle to accept HHO, and the Vehicross MIGHT be one of those, but without know much about them, I couldn't say.

However, we are working on a comprehensive solution that plugs into the OBD-I/II port that will allow easy and immediate manipulation of the electrical inputs to ensure that the vehicle accepts and uses HHO efficiently.

By the way, we really appreciate your skepticism. It encourages us to double- and triple-check our findings and then make it obviously true through demonstration. I would ask, though, that your skepticism be a union of openness and scrutiny rather than mere criticism. Without both ingredients, real progress is impossible.

Sincerely,

Kurt Theobald
CEO
FreemeLabs.com
417.824.0950
kurt@freemelabs.com

[Hotsauce]

I do not believe that you can use mechanical energy to create electricity(the alternator) use that electricity to split water into its base components, and then burn that to achieve a net gain of energy.

You have much energy lost as heat at every conversion for starters.

John C.

[Ldub]

Just for clarity,

The 15-day satisfaction guarantee is not for the purpose of guaranteeing longevity; longevity isn't buyers' #1 concern. Their #1 concern is whether it improves their gas mileage. It doesn't take 90 or 60 or even 30 days to figure that out. It takes about 100 miles of driving. That's why we offer a 15-day satisfaction guarantee.

As for whether it works on a Vehicross or not, I know that it COULD work on a Vehicross, but I don't know the in-depth mechanics and electronics of Vehicross to know what's inhibiting improvement in mpg. It could be a sensor system that exists that wasn't properly regarded. The MAF, MAP, and O2 sensors can all negatively affect and even nullify or invert an HHO generators influence on gas mileage. For very few vehicles, I think it is possible the electrical manipulation required makes it cost-prohibitive to re-engineer the vehicle to accept HHO, and the Vehicross MIGHT be one of those, but without know much about them, I couldn't say.

However, we are working on a comprehensive solution that plugs into the OBD-I/II port that will allow easy and immediate manipulation of the electrical inputs to ensure that the vehicle accepts and uses HHO efficiently.

By the way, we really appreciate your skepticism. It encourages us to double- and triple-check our findings and then make it obviously true through demonstration. I would ask, though, that your skepticism be a union of openness and scrutiny rather than mere criticism. Without both ingredients, real progress is impossible.

Sincerely,

Kurt Theobald
CEO
FreemeLabs.com
417.824.0950
kurt@freemelabs.com

Nice words, but if your product is all that, then a "In writing-90 day-money back-full satisfaction guarantee" should be no problem.
I know it's apples & oranges, but I can get that on Harbor Freight el-cheapo tools.:rolleyesg

[Hotsauce]

So, you just need a bigger unit and no gasoline. Of course this won't work.

This reminds me of most of the perpetual energy scams I've seen over the years.

Stop and calculate how much hydrogen is produced...Very little mass. Very little caloric value as fuel. Now look at BSFC curve of engine. It takes about half a pound of fuel per hour to make one horsepower.

John C.

[VehiGAZ]

What is this no-VX snake-oil huckster still doing on this board?! Can we please get a ban on this 15-day turd?

[Francesco Rizzo]

You can find Nasa's test from hydrogen and fuel mixtures here (http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19770016170_1977016170.pdf) but that link was provided from comments left on this popular mechanics article which has a pretty skeptical author. (http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4276846.html?series=19) I skipped through the pdf file but saw mostly talk of emissions and effect on the way fuel was burned, not actual mpg figures. People who commented on the article in the second link said that nasa used 100 times the hydrogen then HHO can provide and still didn't get magajor MPG increases. I’m also really skeptical.. and put my stock into known, proven technologies: Little motor with just-e-nuff hp wrapped in a scion Xa shell.
Funny thing though, that report was writen in 1977 Nasa and included "in view of decreasing petroleum resources, a system using 100-percent reformed methanol might be an interesting supplementary
or alternative fuel system"

[FreemeLabs]

First, HHO-support systems are not intended to propel the vehicle. That is a common misunderstanding. At this point in time, they are merely supporting the more complete burn of the fossil fuel. Right now, standard auto engines only burn somewhere between 60-80% of the fuel, with the remaining unburned fuel being burned as waste by the catalytic converter. HHO introduction improves the burn to over 90% in the cylinders, allowing more of the fossil fuel to be put to work.

So, your opposition is actually completely true: It would take A LOT of HHO to make a significant different in gas mileage if it were being used for propulsion, but if the HHO is being used to make more of the fossil fuel usable, significant gains in fuel economy is reasonable, and that is the science between our HHO systems.

Really, though, if I were really after suckering people into buying these units, why would I be spending my time trying to enlighten this forum to the truth about HHO? If I were a scheister and smart, I'd pick easy targets, not the highly resistant audience to whom I address these words. But my team is dedicated to getting the grassroots mechanics market involved in supporting the development and implementation of HHO, and THAT is why I spend my time trying to win your support for this technology.

I'm asking you to give the idea a chance, and keep in mind the fundamental principles upon which this technology is based. It's not about propelling the vehicle; it's about burning gas and diesel more efficiently.

I think I've said enough to get those who are open to look into it further, and to those who are not, I could continue to rebuttal and defend the technology, and you would never receive it... For those who are open, you have my contact information, and you have plenty of controversial information on both sides of the conversation on the net.

I'll close by simply saying: Above all, I'm committed to doing business virtuously. Aside from this business, I own a web development firm and an auto dealership, both of which I hold to ethical and moral standards high above what the market demands. I know this technology is effective and practical because I've witnessed it working first-hand. Either, I'm an amazingly greedy, amoral man, or I'm telling the truth.

Feel free to contact me.

Kurt Theobald
CEO
Freeme Labs
417.824.0950
kurt@freemelabs.com
http://www.freemelabs.com

[bentcipher]

Alright, I've had enough of this... Kurt, please excuse some of these comments, they're only representing the views of their respective owners.

I always thought of Vehicross as being revolutionary and ahead of it's time. Back in 99-01 these things truly possessed a lot of qualities that many did not/could not embrace and only a few of us could appreciate. Those of us that did, cherish this vehicle to this very day, 7-9 years later.

Now, when Isuzu built this model, they were banking on buyers with open minds that were willing to explore boundaries of an SUV/offroad market. But the market was tough and unfortunately, that wasn't enough to keep Vx production alive for longer than 3 years.

What Freeme Labs is trying is not all that different. They've got a product that they claim to have been able to make work and believe is quite revolutionary. I cannot believe that we have so many people willing to shut their minds to even the idea of this working... the same people that opened their minds to an "outside the box" vehicle like the VehiCROSS.

From where I'm sitting, I see at least one Vx owner that was able to make this work, more or less - so this cannot be entirely "snake oil". Additionally, I'm not seeing any posts from anyone that have attempted the same with no positive results - and I'm not talking backyard mechanic kinda stuff. So either you shut your mouth or buy the damn product through PayPal, disprove it, and then return it. But don't give this guy a hard time because he might have something you're not willing to accept. We need more vendors like this to step forward and offer quality aftermarket products for our aging fleet.

Besides, a forum is the worst place to scam. People are pretty close and if you scam one, the whole community is on your arse.

- d

P.S. And no, he doesn't have to own a Vx.

[Hotsauce]

I know!

Lets use a solar panel to power a lightbulb to generate more electricity!

We'll get free light and power forever!

Uh, no. That won't work either for the same reasons.

John C.

[don moore]

hey Kurt..do you own or have or looking to get a VX????
or is this a spam message.

[twistedsymphony]

I do not believe that you can use mechanical energy to create electricity(the alternator) use that electricity to split water into its base components, and then burn that to achieve a net gain of energy.

You have much energy lost as heat at every conversion for starters.

John C.

That's absolutely correct. From a purely mathematical standpoint the concept of an HHO generator is bankrupt because you waste more energy generating it than you put back into the system, plus, as you stated, there are losses at every step.

Sport Compact Car last month had a really good analysis of these system and the basic math behind it in layman's terms.

I've not tested it myself but I know people I trust that have. So far the sources I personally consider to be reputable that have tested it have all come to the conclusion that it's snake oil. And the only ones that saw a reduction in fuel consumption were able to attribute it to the system simply leaning out the A/F ratio which could be easily done without the HHO generator, but most people don't do that because it's quite bad for your engine.

They lean out the mixture because most of them pipe in the HHO after the MAF sensor so the engine computer doesn't realize there is more air in the mixture... other "systems" play with the MAF sensor readings to again fool the ECU into thinking there is less air than there actually is. Since the engine thinks there is less air it injects less gas which means you're using less gas, but it also means you've got less power and the Air to fuel ratio is way out of spec for what the engine was designed for.

As for the HHO itself no only do the pocket generators not produce anywhere near enough of the stuff to make a measurable difference the electrical energy required to produce it is significantly more than the energy you get out of it in your engine, even if you assumed that there were no additional losses in the system (which there are).

I didn't pay these systems any mind for a while, but I had a bunch of people I know keep pestering me to look into them, so I did, and this is the impression I walked away with.

I encourage people to do their own testing and research and come to their own conclusions. I even encourage people to try to change my mind, but I will say if you hope to have any success at that you'll need provide me with the math as to why it supposedly works. For what it's worth I'm a Mechanical Engineer in the Aerospace Industry.

[Moncha]

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3035/ugly.gif

OK, being that this thread was not started by "Kurt Theobald" from "FreemeLabs.com" I won't actually consider this a spam thread. I'm not sure how he got onto this thread so fast though. The OP, crager34 had a legit question and I understand that "Kurt" was answering it. I'm watching this one closely as it seems to be getting out of hand.

Keep it clean and fair and I won't lock it.

[VehiGAZ]

Thanks for keeping an eye on things for us, Scott! My guess is that one of the VX'ers monkeying around with an HHO generator invited this guy to post some backup info.

Personally, I don't need to know anything more about the product and the seller other than the "15 day warranty" to be quite certain it's junk.

[FreemeLabs]

I just wanted to let everyone on this forum know that Crager34 has agreed to work with me on installing a Freeme system on his VX to see what kind of results we can achieve. These results will be posted on this forum, good or bad. So we will put an end to this debate with proof in the pudding in either direction.

Also, thank you Moncha for your oversight of this thread. I hope you note that I have been nothing but entirely civil and inviting of criticism.

Please stand by for progress and results postings.

[VehiGAZ]

Why don't you let Crager post the results of your experiments.

We know him, and we don't trust you, so... you know...

[LittleBeast]

Now, when Isuzu built this model, they were banking on buyers with open minds that were willing to explore boundaries of an SUV/offroad market. But the market was tough and unfortunately, that wasn't enough to keep Vx production alive for longer than 3 years.

Are you serious? The molds that Isuzu stamped our body panels out of were only good for under 5,000 units, it was never Isuzu's intention to mass produce the VX for years to come, it was a promotional gamble to grab fellow motorist attention and get them into the Isuzu showroom, where no they would not plop down over $35,000 for a 2 door SUV, but they would have them in the showroom with opportunity to show them the Trooper, or other more main stream Isuzu's. Why in the world do you think we have a ISUZU logo the size of a billboard on the rear of the VX? So there would be no doubt which dealership to go to and check those things out. "The market was tough and wasn't enough to keep VX production alive?" Oh come on you don't really believe that do you? They were not planning on producing any more than they did, lol, wow, I thought everyone on here at least knew that much.

[VCAMILO]

My co-worker (sits next to me at work) built a system a month back and installed it on his Expedition. He gained about 20% better milage. He only needs to fininsh the cooling of the water and the system is complete. He has been able to maintain his water at a normal level for over three hours. I think he needs to bore out some whole for better water flow and efficiancy. Im next in line for his install; In the next few weeks or months.

[crager34]

It's been interesting to see where this thread went, and I was very surprised at the idea having freemelabs banned from here, which he shouldn't. I would like to say that I didn't invite him here and not sure how he did get here, but I do appreciate his getting involved. I have also agree to work with Kirk and see if this is a viable option for better MPG and if it's not, he promised to refund my money and actually told me to post all results, even negative.

I have seen articles that show this works, and others touting snake oil and it would seem that the best way to find out is through personal experience.

I will keep everyone posted. :cool:



Remember Galileo Galilei

[Hotsauce]

In order to get more consistant test results I would propose that the ECU be reset before both mileage runs.

Same gas from same station, and same pump so that that full is the same in all cases.

John C.

[LittleBeast]

Yeah... Some some strict controls need to be installed to get as accurate a test as possible.

Kurt and crager thanks for working together on this, I am excited to see the results! :)

But as we all know driver style (heavy foot/slow acceleration) and location (hwy/city) have more of an impact on mileage than almost anything else, so unless there are huge differences I still say it is possible that most positive results are placebo effect (aka high hopes = slow acceleration = better mpg).

[etlsport]

But as we all know driver style (heavy foot/slow acceleration) and location (hwy/city) have more of an impact on mileage than almost anything else, so unless there are huge differences I still say it is possible that most positive results are placebo effect (aka high hopes = slow acceleration = better mpg).

its true.. i was in a very relaxed mood today.. my trip home i averaged 18.3mpg according to the scangauge (which has been dead on accurate to the .1 gallon over a full tank for the last 6 months) and on other days i am as low as 12.5mpg on that same trip

[crager34]

In order to get more consistant test results I would propose that the ECU be reset before both mileage runs.

Same gas from same station, and same pump so that that full is the same in all cases.

John C.

This is a good idea and for those who have been to Moab, it won't be hard to accomplish this. If there are other suggestions I am happy to hear them.

BTW - I am the QA/Compliance oversight for this DOE project out here and it's my job to be un-biased in every situation (I don't make many friends). It's my job to see that the taxpayers are getting a good product for the $98 million dollars estimated to be spent out here moving this dirt. In short - my reports will be honest and unbiased to Freemelabs and the VX community.

Darrin

[taylorRichie]

I'm anxiously awaiting the results...

I know Darrin won't be pushing false info on us... Doesn't seem in his character, Not that I know him extremely well, but I wouldn't think so.

And as far as driving style effect MPGs... Doesn't really matter as long as the same person is doing the before and after, and they're consistent in their driving style.

I'm very skeptical, but also open minded, I don't know it all, but I DO know that our engines are extremely inefficient at Burning fuel, so If it takes some energy to make our engine more efficiently burn fuel, there is a certain point where it's plausible.

Turbos, and superchargers do the same... It takes energy to turn the pulley on a supercharger, but the energy it takes is less than the energy produced, on a turbo same deal, it takes energy to push the turbine on the exhaust, but it's more efficient at taking that energy and multiplying it.

So I say Plausible :D

[twistedsymphony]

Turbos, and superchargers do the same... It takes energy to turn the pulley on a supercharger, but the energy it takes is less than the energy produced, on a turbo same deal, it takes energy to push the turbine on the exhaust, but it's more efficient at taking that energy and multiplying it.

'chargers themselves don't actually produce energy.

air+gas+ignition(spark) = energy released from the air+gas

pumping more gas into the engine is easy, just install a bigger pump...

normally aspirated engines suck in the air on their own. 'chargers are nothing more than an air pump so we can cram more air in the engine so that we can pump more gas in the engine and get more energy in the end.

bigger engine make more power because they have more air and gas going into them... 'charged vehicles make more power for the same reason.

No joke, you could strap a leaf blower to your intake and your car will make more power, and this actually works, because it acts like an air pump the same way a turbo or supercharger does.

chargers take energy to run, but so does any pump... but you're still getting your energy from gas+air though... the energy lost running your "air pump" is much much smaller than the energy you get from the air your sucking in and the additional gas that lets you burn.

....

The concept of HHO generation is that the energy comes from the water, the problem is that when burned the same way we burn gas and air, it produces less energy, not only that the process of electrolysis is like having a mini-refinery in your car to convert the energy in the water into a more usable form.

The reason, from a scientific stand point, that this concept is bankrupt is that water in it's natural form... doesn't contain any energy. by performing electrolysis you're putting energy into it, and then you're taking that energy back out once it hits your engine... The problem is that when you put energy into it only about 70% makes it into hydrogen (the rest is lost to heat and other natual losses that come from any energy conversion), and when you burn it in your engine only about 40% of THAT gets turned into energy at the crank (again the rest lost to heat, friction, etc.).

It's analogous to installing a 2nd empty gas tank in your car that only gets gas in it by stealing gas from your normal tank... except it spills most of the gas it's stealing in the process. The only difference is that it's stealing in the form of electrical energy, giving it back to you in the form of air energy and spilling it in the form of heat energy.

The idea that your "alternator produces unused energy" is foolish as well. Most of the accessories are designed to only produce the energy they need, when they need it. Do a test for me the next time you start your car while your parked. Pull the wheel quickly in one direction and watch the RPMs... you'll see them blip up, this is because the power steering pump is only drawing energy from your motor when it needs it. Turn on your AC while you're parked and idling and you'll see the RPMs rise too... Your alternator is no different, if you were to flip on all your lights, crank your stereo and run some power hungry device from the cigarette lighter while you rolled down all your windows at the same time you'd see the RPMs increase slightly as well while it adapts to the load and strains the engine harder.

Even if the theory of the over productive alternator were true, don't you think a better method for recycling that energy would be to hook up an electric helper motor, since electric motors are the most efficient way to convert electrical energy into mechanical energy... or even just simply installing a smaller alternator that's not as wasteful... or if either of those were viable solutions to an existing problem that auto makers would be using them...

....

All in all I'm very interested in seeing the results of this test... I'd really like to see pictures of the install and if possible engine data as well particularly air/fuel and O2 sensor readings.

[crager34]

Not really much of one, but the unit was purchased today and hope to have it in and working by next weekend.

Darrin

[Hotsauce]

Lets do some practical math.

This thing costs $400.

To make the math easy, lets put gas at $4/gallon. So the thing costs 100 gallons of gas.

Lets pretend for a moment that it really works(Crackdream®), and works so well that it increases mileage by 10%

If you are getting 20 miles per gallon, it would take 20,000 miles just to reach the break even point. 2-3 years for the average driver just to be back to zero.

John C.

[Hotsauce]

10% is an arbitrary figure. There isn't going to be any improvement.

I used it as a what-if to show how long it would take to pay back something that actually worked.

Every engine maker in the world would be all over this if it worked.

I've sat in on literally thousands of pulls on an engine dyno. There is no free lunch.

John C.

[crager34]

Some wierd kook of a guy spent the last 7 years of his life in house arrest because he thought the world was round. :_wtf:

Who'd a thunk it!!


Just sit back and wait and see. :?: I am the one spending the money, time, and effort, to prove all you people who say it won't work RIGHT!! And all you people that say it will work RIGHT!! :_steering

[TechnoPope]

These units must be gaining in popularity. I am starting to get calls about them at my EPA office. Darrin, I look forward to reading about your experience.

[Daveh]

So what were the results of the HHO Generator Crager34 was testing?
It's been over a month now, they can't be that hard to install and test.

[crager34]

So what were the results of the HHO Generator Crager34 was testing?
It's been over a month now, they can't be that hard to install and test.

Sorry for the delay, but here is the update. The unit comes in two configurations: 1. As one unit. 2. As two units.

I bought number one and found it isn't mountable in the engine bay, so working with freemelabs I will be getting the other model/unit soon. In short, not installed yet and no tests done. This isn't because they are difficult to install, rather, work related issues and some personal issues have come up that has kept me traveling every weekend. I still promise to do all this, but it has to be when it's convenient for me. Again... sorry for the delay.

[crager34]

At this point I am thinking lesson learned and I am out a few hundred dollars. The first unit wouldn't fit, so I requested their other one which I received, but one of the plastic (red flag) bolts was sheered. I asked for a replacement and was told they were working on it.

In short..... never been installed... have no data. Still hopefull someday, but not counting on it.

Sorry:(

[FreemeLabs]

Hey everyone (especially crager),

I believe there was a lapse in communication, as I never heard this was an issue. I had understand you (crager) were going to file a claim at the post office. I just assumed you had gotten super-busy again.
If all you're waiting on is a plastic bolt, I can send that straight away.

Also, as for the concern about plastic bolts, they have to be made of insulator material so it doesn't short out the electrical circuit. Considering the application, it shouldn't be a problem to have a plastic bolt on the item once it's installed... naturally, provided the bolt doesn't come in the mail sheared... *sheepish laugh*

Crager, if you need a plastic bolt mailed to you, please confirm that via e-mail, and I'll get that right out to you. Thanks and sorry for the miscommunication.

Kurt Theobald
Freeme Labs

[crager34]

That's cool, man. I understand how sometimes things don't come together. Are you going to be around during the EJS this April?

Plans are to be around town, yes. Hope to see you then, or sooner.