to the electrical guys..

[etlsport]

so I have a mod in mind.. but not sure how to pull it off, was hoping someone here would be able to help

nobody can ever find my door handles at night.. so what I want to do is install LEDs inside the door handles so they are lit up.. thats the easy part and its already done.. the hard part is im not sure how to wire them so that when i take the vx out of acc mode (ie turn the car off) the lights turn on for 30-60 seconds and then turn back off

i have a fuse box thats controlled by the ignition so it would be easy enough to set up a relay where power to it opens the circuit and taking the power from it (pulling the key) will close the circuit.. but i dont know how to control the length of time... i can make my own circuit boards and such.. just not sure what i would need to do to make it work..

any ideas?

[twistedsymphony]

ok so you basically want the LEDs to turn on for 30 seconds after you've turned the car off correct?

That shouldn't be too difficult.

You can use the always fun, easy to find and incredibly cheap 555 timer and then wire it up in "Monostable" mode

for more information you can look here: http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/555timer.htm

you can use the ACC line as your trigger and then the output can go straight to your LEDs...

Depending on how robust the specific 555 chip is the voltage supplied by your cars battery might be too much for it, in which case you might want to consider some small bit of additional circuitry such as a transformer or power regulator to absorb any spikes and dips the electrical system might experience.

You can get a 555 timer and probably everything else you need at your local radio shack for a couple bucks... (you can get it for pennies online).

Feel free to shoot me a PM if you have any other questions, I do electronics stuff all the time. the 555 is a great beginners tool for electronics, nearly every class on electronics will have you using a 555 and an LED in various configurations, even that link I posted above is from a highschool electronics club :cool:

[circmand]

If you have the lights go off after 30 seconds how do your passenfers find the handles when you all come back to the car from dinner etc? I mean when they get out they do not need the handles they need it when they are coming back so I do not see what the lights accomplish unless you wire them to your remote and they turn on when you unlock the car doors.

[Ldub]

Get a couple VX/Trooper domelights from a salvage yard & use the guts out of those to stay on, then stage down...the only drawback would be creating a dummy load or leaving the bulb in, so it would work properly.

[etlsport]

i meant the interior door handles.. exterior is no problem because i know where it is and i always open it for my ladies anyway ;Db;


dub.. thats an idea i could probably come up with a way to use a stock circuit board from the dome lights.. only downside to them is i know for a fact that those dimmers are really rough on LEDs.. but i could look around for other cars that have similar timers without dimming.. then tie it in.. hmmmm

[Techy-D]

I'm not sure what size of capacitor you would need, but if these LED's are drawing low enough current, you could just put a capacitor in parallel with your LED/Resistor. When the 12VDC goes away, the capacitor would continue to feed the LED till it ran out of juice (It would even give you the slow fade effect). Just an idea.

I also you could check out this idea: Just look under "Power off time delay".
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/page2.htm

[twistedsymphony]

for a fade effect you'd need to use a capacitor and transistor. that's pretty easy to do as well.

it's a more simplified version of this circuit
http://www.cpemma.co.uk/bit/led_fader1.gif


I also you could check out this idea: Just look under "Power off time delay".
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/page2.htm
That wouldn't be bad if his desire was for the LEDs to be on 100% of the time while the VX is running and then just stay on for X amount of time after he shuts it off.

If the intent is for the LEDs to turn on when the VX is shut off and remain on for a minute then the 555 is the more appropriate option.

As for Dome lights.... most of the time the timer is built into a special relay that controls all of the interior lights, not just the dome light.

[Knigh7s]

I'm not sure what size of capacitor you would need, but if these LED's are drawing low enough current, you could just put a capacitor in parallel with your LED/Resistor. When the 12VDC goes away, the capacitor would continue to feed the LED till it ran out of juice (It would even give you the slow fade effect). Just an idea.

I also you could check out this idea: Just look under "Power off time delay".
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/page2.htm

The cap is what I was going to suggest, It would be the easiest and prolly the cheapest route to take...

[tom4bren]

Eric,

Why don't you just drive the door handle LEDs from the circuit you installed for your Dome LEDs? They come on with the Dome & off with the Dome. Isn't that delay adequate? I know it'll be a pain to run the wires but it would save the effort of circuit design.

Tom

[Ldub]

As for Dome lights.... most of the time the timer is built into a special relay that controls all of the interior lights, not just the dome light.

Last I checked, unless aftermarket bits have been added, the dome light is "all of the interior lights"...:smilewink
With the exception of the instrument cluster, glove box & ash tray, none of which dim wit da dome.

[twistedsymphony]

Last I checked, unless aftermarket bits have been added, the dome light is "all of the interior lights"...:smilewink
With the exception of the instrument cluster, glove box & ash tray, none of which dim wit da dome.

I just checked the FSM (18D-13 and 18D-14) and it look like the "Room Lamp" assembly on the VX does actually have the timing relay built into it.

This is different from other cars I've worked on where kick panel and, map lights, or a 2nd dome light would illuminate as well.

Looking at the circuit the dome lights get triggered from the PRESCIENCE of Power. when you hit your keyless entry button or open a door it sends power to the dome light which will stay on for as long as there is power and fade out when the power disappears. If you use a dome light you'll have to figure out a way to emulate the keyless entry module which looks to have it's own timer to provide power to the dome for a few sections before allowing it to fade off.

if you were to make this work for the door handles you would have to find some way to emulate the timed pulse that the keyless entry provides (or as if you opened the door for a few seconds then closed it). Really it'd only be useful for the fade effect as you still need to create a "pulse" with something else to trigger it after the car is turned off and before you open the door.

I don't know why everyone is ignoring my 555 timer suggestion, it would serously take a beginner less than 10 minutes to solder it together :rolleyes:

[Ldub]

I just checked the FSM (18D-13 and 18D-14) and it look like the "Room Lamp" assembly on the VX does actually have the timing relay built into it.

This is different from other cars I've worked on where kick panel and, map lights, or a 2nd dome light would illuminate as well.

That's where our techniques vary, you look at the manual, while I have had mine apart & modded it to work in my overhead console, while also powering the transformer for the blue "rope light" that accents the perimeter of the console. Now both the dome, & the rope light, stage down when the door is closed...:thumbup:
Not saying either technique is better, just different ways of approaching the same set of circumstances.:smilewink


if you were to make this work for the door handles you would have to find some way to emulate the timed pulse that the keyless entry provides (or as if you opened the door for a few seconds then closed it). Really it'd only be useful for the fade effect as you still need to create a "pulse" with something else to trigger it after the car is turned off and before you open the door.

Very true, I hadn't realized ETL was talking about the interior mechanism when I first brought this up.


I don't know why everyone is ignoring my 555 timer suggestion, it would serously take a beginner less than 10 minutes to solder it together :rolleyes:

I don't think anyone is intentionally ignoring your 555 suggestion, the fact is, many of us (I include myself in this statement) don't have anywhere NEAR your depth of expertise & experience in matters pertaining to electronics...:sighwgray
The schematic you posted could just as well be in Chinese or any number of other languages I'm illiterate in...:rolleyesg
I can barely solder wiring extensions onto the harness under the hood in half an hour, I can only imagine the mess I could make of a circuit board.

[twistedsymphony]

Soldering some chips and other components to a small proto-board is actually EASIER than doing stuff like harness work. It look more difficult but really it's not.

If you don't mind spending a little more you can buy whats called a "bread-board" which will let you build a prototype of your circuit by just plugging in the parts. NO SOLDERING REQUIRED :cool:

http://www.trainelectronics.com/artcles/PulsedIR/images/555_breadboard3.jpg

it's as easy as building stuff with legos.

Electronics are easy once you understand the basics. If you simply learn to read a circuit diagram you can build just about anything, you don't even need to understand the math behind it or why it works... All the diagram tells you is what parts are used and how they all connect together.

a 555 timer circuit is quite simple and if you're even slightly interested in learning to build circuits or other little electronic projects then buying yourself a bread board a pack of resistor, a pac of capacitors, a pack of LEDs and a couple of 555 timers you'll have a lot of fun and realize just how easy this stuff is.

I didn't even get into electronics until I was in college and I had a friend who was an EE, I had him explain what the different symbols were in circuit diagrams and it was a total eureka moment. spending $15 on a bread board and some pre-cut wire I stared building all kinds of stuff..


That site I linked up top is awesome for beginners...
check out this page for a quick list of basic components... http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/symbol.htm

you can also go here: http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/compon.htm
to see a comparison of what the symbols look like compared to the real life components (in most cases they're very similar)

after looking at that, take a look at the diagram I posted again... it's really very simple. :)

I'm happy to help answer questions on this stuff. Knowing how to read circuit diagrams will open up a world of possibilities for modifying your car.

[Ldub]

Soldering some chips and other components to a small proto-board is actually EASIER than doing stuff like harness work. It look more difficult but really it's not.

If you don't mind spending a little more you can buy whats called a "bread-board" which will let you build a prototype of your circuit by just plugging in the parts. NO SOLDERING REQUIRED :cool:

http://www.trainelectronics.com/artcles/PulsedIR/images/555_breadboard3.jpg

it's as easy as building stuff with legos.

Electronics are easy once you understand the basics. If you simply learn to read a circuit diagram you can build just about anything, you don't even need to understand the math behind it or why it works... All the diagram tells you is what parts are used and how they all connect together.

a 555 timer circuit is quite simple and if you're even slightly interested in learning to build circuits or other little electronic projects then buying yourself a bread board a pack of resistor, a pac of capacitors, a pack of LEDs and a couple of 555 timers you'll have a lot of fun and realize just how easy this stuff is.

I didn't even get into electronics until I was in college and I had a friend who was an EE, I had him explain what the different symbols were in circuit diagrams and it was a total eureka moment. spending $15 on a bread board and some pre-cut wire I stared building all kinds of stuff..


That site I linked up top is awesome for beginners...
check out this page for a quick list of basic components... http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/symbol.htm

you can also go here: http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/compon.htm
to see a comparison of what the symbols look like compared to the real life components (in most cases they're very similar)

after looking at that, take a look at the diagram I posted again... it's really very simple. :)

I'm happy to help answer questions on this stuff. Knowing how to read circuit diagrams will open up a world of possibilities for modifying your car.

COOL !...Thanks, I'll look into that later, gotta go work now.:sighwgray

[twistedsymphony]

:cool: If you're interested in picking this stuff up here's what you can get from RadioShack to get you Started.

looking at radioshack's website you can pickup a bread board for about $8
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2734155&cp=&sr=1&kw=breadboard&origkw=breadboard&parentPage=search

you'll also want to buy a set of pre-cut wires for the board another $7
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103801&cp=&sr=1&kw=breadboard&origkw=breadboard&parentPage=search

this will give you oodles of wires pre-cut and stripped for easy use on a bread-board, trust me, it's worth it.

Then pickup a battery holder of some sort (need to power your circuit), I recommend one that holds 4 AA batteries since that will give you roughly 5V of power which is perfect for most projects. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062253&cp=&sr=1&kw=battery+holder&origkw=battery+holder&parentPage=search

If you're building car circuits you'll also want to pick up a "7805" power regulator. Which will take the 12V from the car as an input and output 5V for your circuit. http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=5v%20regulator&origkw=5v%20regulator&sr=1

you'll only need to use this part when hooking it up to your car, this component is very popular more info here: http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/powersup.htm#regulator One thing to be weary of is this part can get hot since it burns off the extra energy as heat. The 555 circuit probably wont draw much though so it might not even be a concern for this project.

Then just pickup whatever other parts you need for your particular project and go to town plugging stuff in and experimenting. :bwgy:

if you really want you could just leave the bread board right in your car, lots of people leave their projects like that and most bread boards have double sided sticky tape on the bottom for just such an occasion. I would recommend transferring your circuit to a regard proto-board and soldering it in place once you're happy with it though, since it's a lot more permanent and you don't have to worry about things falling out, then you can re-use your bread board for your next project.

[tom4bren]

"I don't know why everyone is ignoring my 555 timer suggestion"

Right, the 555 is easy to use & is very versitile. I used one to build a sawtooth generator in college & used one once to build a pest repeller years ago. It's just a bit of overkill to use it for a timeout circuit (IMHO).

The real question is what to use to trigger the light to come on in the first place. I assume that you're not interested in a switch on the dash since they're hard to find in the dark. The most logical trigger in my mind would be the dome light. If the dome isn't triggered by turning off the ignition key (can't remember), it'll still come on as soon as he opens the driver door. You can still use the 555 astable multivibrator (that really is it's official name) to time it off at a different rate. It's also possible to use it for dimming an LED as well (PWM) but that would be more complex to design.

[twistedsymphony]

"I don't know why everyone is ignoring my 555 timer suggestion"

Right, the 555 is easy to use & is very versitile. I used one to build a sawtooth generator in college & used one once to build a pest repeller years ago. It's just a bit of overkill to use it for a timeout circuit (IMHO).

The real question is what to use to trigger the light to come on in the first place. I assume that you're not interested in a switch on the dash since they're hard to find in the dark. The most logical trigger in my mind would be the dome light. If the dome isn't triggered by turning off the ignition key (can't remember), it'll still come on as soon as he opens the driver door. You can still use the 555 astable multivibrator (that really is it's official name) to time it off at a different rate. It's also possible to use it for dimming an LED as well (PWM) but that would be more complex to design.
whoa whoa whoa...

I think you're missing HOW I was suggesting to use the 555 timer...

"Monostable mode" does EXACTLY what we're looking for here..

it gets a trigger, then it outputs a solid on signal for X amount of time.. then it turns off the output and waits for a trigger again.

this is exactly what we're looking for. the signal is when the ignition turns off. when that happens the LED comes on for X amount of time... then the LED turns off and waits for an signal again.

If you attach it to the dome light for a signal then the design has already failed because the intent is to help the passenger find the interior door handle BEFORE the door is opened... the dome light comes on AFTER the door is opened... at which point you don't need to find it anymore :p

As for the trigger...
the 555 timer has a trigger input... the cool thing about how it works really nicely with this setup.. is that the 555 is activated on the "trailing end" of the trigger pulse. what does this mean?

I means when the car is off the Ignition/ACC signal is at 0V... then when you start the car it goes up to 12V, This is the LEADING edge of the "trigger pulse" (it just happens that this single "pulse" lasts the duration of the car ride). When you turn the car off the Ignition/ACC signal drops back down to to 0V, this is the TRAILING edge of the "trigger pulse". Since the 555 does it's thing on the trailing edge of the trigger pulse it turns on the LED the instant the Ignition/ACC signal drops down to 0V. PERFECT

A 555 timer triggered from the ACC line in the VX and wired in monostable mode with an output to an LED would work like this:

-The VX is off and so is the LED
-you start the car and go for a drive... the LED is still off
-you park it and leave it running... the LED is still off
-You turn the key off ... the LED comes on and stays on
-the LED turns off after a set amount of time.
-repeat

I don't know but IMO that seems to be EXACTLY what we're looking for an EXACTLY the kind of application the 555 was built to be used for.


If you want to add a fade effect to that where the LED comes on instantly stays on for a few seconds, and then fades out, you'll just need to add a transistor and capacitor between the output of the 555 and the LED. :cool:

[tom4bren]

OK - in my head I was just making it more complicated than it was.

Dome light is still OK since he said it was the passenger & not him that couldn't find the handle.

Your application might be better for the blind date scenario since he wouldn't be getting out to open her door:). But on the other hand, he prolly wouldn't be shutting off the engine either:).

Actually, I've met Eric's GF & she's a keeper so he knows I'm just kidding.

I guess he could trigger the 555 from pwr ant lead from his head unit & get the same effect.

[twistedsymphony]

if I have time I'll whip up the circuit and take some pics, I've got a whole freekin handful of 555 timers in my parts bin :p

[etlsport]

phew! i stepped away for a couple days and yall are arguing at my expense ;Db;

the 555 timer is sounding better and better... i would love a quick circuit diagram if you could whip one up for me.. i already have most of the components i need.. a few of my classes required me to learn that kind of stuff.. ive built wii remotes using accelerometers.. speedometers using solonoid pulses... scales using whetstone bridges blablabla

tom, i thought about using the dome light.. but what i had planned to do was to find a circuit that would not draw power.. and use a relay that outputs to 87a when there it is not activated.. and outputs to 87 when it is activated.. that way i will just have an ignition wire activate it so that when the car is on.. there is no power to the 87a terminal (which would control the lights) then as soon as i turn the car off, the 87a terminal would be live... problem with that would have been it would be constant draw on the system unless i figured out a way to cut it off after so long... (btw.. the girlfriend you met.. wasnt as much of a keeper as we thought... long story.. but theres recently a new girl in town.. ill bring her by next time!)

[twistedsymphony]

I drew up a quick diagram of the 555 circuit that will run the LEDs for 30 seconds and then fade out when you turn the car off..

I'll have to wait until I get home before I can scan it in to share with everyone.... if I have time tonight I'll wire it up and make sure it works :rolleyes:

[twistedsymphony]

As promised...

http://solid-orange.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/vx_door_led.thumbnail.jpg (http://solid-orange.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/vx_door_led.jpg)

I ran into a little snafu initially, I didn't realize that the 555 required a "pulse" for the trigger meaning that if the power went from high to low and didn't go back high it would "continue to trigger" meaning the LED would stay on...

I got around that by adding a simple "RC" circuit to the trigger... now it works as designed.

There are essentially 4 wires that connect to this circuit
-12v constant (from the batter)
-ground
-12V switched (the accessory wire) and
-the LED output signal

if you look at the picture you can see the red and black wires up top... power and ground. the big loose orange wire is the "accessory" which I would switch by simply touching it to power and the unplugging it to simulate the car turning off. and the LED I attempted to visually separate from the rest of the circuit a bit.

you can mount this somewhere in the dash and run two wires from the output, one to each door to act as the power signal for the LED... the ground for the LED can just be grounded to anything metal in the door. :smilewink

If I still had a working video camera I'd make a short video showing it in action.