Timing Belt Parts

[nfpgasmask]

So, I am probably going to do my timing belt within the next 2 months. I have been seeing on eBay Timing Belt kits that come with a water pump. So, is it common practice to change the water pump at the same time as doing the timing belt?

Can someone give me a breakdown of all the parts that are needed to do the Timing Belt swap? Also, any special tools needed?

I found this thread which talked about a lot of extra parts and not just a belt.

http://vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=13546&highlight=timing+belt

Thanks- Bart

[tom4bren]

The only reason to do the water pump at the same time is 'cause you're already 97.2% there & Gooney Bird says that your water pump will start leaking 2 days after you replace your timing belt.

Sorry, I don't have any info on the parts you'll need.

[kodiak]

I just did the timing belt on my montaro about 2 months ago. I tried to save money by not doing the water pump too. 1 week later the water pump started leaking. So, yes replacing the WP is a good idea. It will save you a lot of time.



is it common practice to change the water pump at the same time as doing the timing belt?

[iamironman]

nfp,

I bought THIS (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Isuzu-Timing-Belt-Water-Pump-Kit-Axiom-Vehicross-Rodeo_W0QQitemZ220314723844QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMoto rs_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item2203147238 44&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 ) timing belt and waterpump kit last July when I blew my engine and had it replaced witha used engine. The mechanic threw the labor in with the R&R since the engine was already out and EVERYBODY I talked to said to do the TB change since the price diff between the belt alone and the pump alone is way more cost effective to buy the full kit and do the pump at the same time... and as I watched the mechanic do the pump at the same time, it took him like an extra 15 mins to switch the pump then do the belt.

[newthings]

I am having the timing belt done Monday.
This is what I am replacing:

Tensioner/pulley 89713 62561
Push rod 8973285120
Timing Belt 89713-63210

A/C Idler Pulley 8971783540
Tensioner arm/pulley 8971258601
Serpentine belt (Gatorback) 4060900
Supercharger Belt GTR 4060485

Radiator Hose upper
Radiator Hose lower
New Super aluminum Radiator with fans!
Hose Heater bypass 8-97167694-2
(May not be accessible)
Water pump 8971675540
Water pump gasket included
Post/stud 8971362660

I do not know what "Seals for the cam" is/are, noted in Aussie post
EBAY kit cost a lot less the Isuzu parts.

Roy

[Chopper]

Do the pump and gasket, make sure you replace the tensioner. Don't let anyone talk you out of it, brother Bart

[Ldub]

Do the pump and gasket, make sure you replace the tensioner. Don't let anyone talk you out of it, brother Bart

Good advice...:thumbup:

My two cents is this...any time I replace something that's "deep in" which will most likely entail a bill that's more than 60-70% labor cost(if I weren't doing it myself), I either go with OEM from Merlin, or an aftermarket source, if it's been proven as good or better than OEM...:_wrench:
Never shop for "internals" with price in mind...:naughty:

[kpaske]

Hey Bart,

Make sure you read the Timing Belt TSB in my gallery - when I did mine I had instructions from two different sources that were both WRONG (including the CD manual) and I screwed up my timing real bad. I finally took it to a shop and it took THEM two tries before they found this info and got it right.

Kyle

[ScottinMA]

Where did you get the parts? From Merlin? And do you recall how much all that cost?




I am having the timing belt done Monday.
This is what I am replacing:

Tensioner/pulley 89713 62561
Push rod 8973285120
Timing Belt 89713-63210

A/C Idler Pulley 8971783540
Tensioner arm/pulley 8971258601
Serpentine belt (Gatorback) 4060900
Supercharger Belt GTR 4060485

Radiator Hose upper
Radiator Hose lower
New Super aluminum Radiator with fans!
Hose Heater bypass 8-97167694-2
(May not be accessible)
Water pump 8971675540
Water pump gasket included
Post/stud 8971362660

I do not know what "Seals for the cam" is/are, noted in Aussie post
EBAY kit cost a lot less the Isuzu parts.

Roy

[nfpgasmask]

I think Merlin does have all these parts. The list adds up fast. I think for everything above (that list sounds about right) it was close to $600.

I will be doing this in the spring as well.

Bart

[ScottinMA]

Bart,

Appreciate the info. I'm planning on a spring makeover as well.




I think Merlin does have all these parts. The list adds up fast. I think for everything above (that list sounds about right) it was close to $600.

I will be doing this in the spring as well.

Bart

[nfpgasmask]

So, going back to this again, I am planning to order up my parts from Merlin soon.

So, now, the question is, to do myself or not to do myself?

How many of you out there have tackled the timing belt change and associated part swaps/maintenance?

I am not afraid of taking my VX down for a week or so, because we have 2 cars now, so that is not a huge problem, but I am more so wondering if this is simply to involved to handle in my own garage. I know the entire front end has to be taken apart, but what about any special tools/etc?

Thanks- Bart

[tom4bren]

Bart,

You should be able to do it yourself. I don't think there are any special tools required. Of course I've never done it on the VX so I could be talking out my arse.

If you do it yourself, one word of advice. When all is put back together, turn the engine by hand first before you hit the starter. When I replaced the timing belt on an old Eclipse for the second time, I figured I had the process down & almost talked myself out of turning the engine by hand. Somehow I had messed up & the timing was waaaay off. If I had hit the starter, the engine would have siezed.

Tom

[etlsport]

also make sure you get the proper TSB for the timing belt change... iirc many have had issues with following the repair manual only to be fixed by following the tsb

[nfpgasmask]

Thanks guys, I think I have all the paperwork I need. So now I just need to order up the parts.

When I do this, I will be sure to photograph the whole process and put together a new how to.

Bart

[kodiak]

Bart, do you have the timing belt replacement instructional video? If you don’t I can put it on YouTube for you.

[nfpgasmask]

Bart, do you have the timing belt replacement instructional video? If you don’t I can put it on YouTube for you.

Hmmm, I might have it. What did it come with? I have a huge folder full of VX stuff on my PC at home so I will have to check for it. Is there are common file name for it I could check for? Thanks man!

Bart

[kodiak]

Hmmm, I might have it. What did it come with? I have a huge folder full of VX stuff on my PC at home so I will have to check for it. Is there are common file name for it I could check for? Thanks man!

Bart

I don’t remember how I got it, it was about a year or so ago. I was thinking of post it anyway, I’ll add a link as soon as it’s done.

[kodiak]

Here it is, I just finished uploading it. I’ve replaced the timing belts on about 4 vehicles in my day. This video is best step by step I’ve seen.:thumbup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjhNOVl1Tcc&feature=channel_page

[nfpgasmask]

Here it is, I just finished uploading it. I’ve replaced the timing belts on about 4 vehicles in my day. This video is best step by step I’ve seen.:thumbup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjhNOVl1Tcc&feature=channel_page

Awesome, thanks! I will check out when I get home tonight!

Bart

[deermagnet]

I brought these timing belt videos to the internet right here in 2007. You can bet that anywhere that these videos exist on the internet is due to my original post here. I'd be shocked if these vids didn't get lifted to that Russian ftp site. Scott copied 'em and has them hosted here also at vx.info with my original thread in the how to's section. If I ever disappear and they're not on my host site, the vids and images will always be on this site.
http://www.vehicross.info/modules.php?name=Content&file=viewarticle&id=37 (http://www.vehicross.info/modules.php?name=Content&file=viewarticle&id=37)

Here's all my stuff again so ya don't have to click to another thread. If anybody can add photos or a write-up with new info not found here, please do. I also posted this stuff over at the Planet and a guy who completely lost the timing found this info worked exactly right to get it running again.

These vids are small and a bit rough to keep the file size down. They're instructional and not for entertainment, so as long as the message gets thru, that's what counts. WMV files only.

This one is for changing the belt if the timing has not been disrupted.
8:12 and 14.2 mb-
http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/techvids/timebelt.wmv (http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/techvids/timebelt.wmv)

This vid is for changing the belt when the timing has been lost.
5:39 and 11.9 mb-
http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/techvids/timing2.wmv (http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/techvids/timing2.wmv)

Another one for when the timing has been lost showing it in a different way.
4:00 and 4.4 mb-
http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/techvids/timing.wmv (http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/techvids/timing.wmv)

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/imgs/belttime.gif
http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/imgs/belt25.gif

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/imgs/belt26.gif

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/imgs/belt27.gif

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/imgs/belt28.gif

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/imgs/timesb.gif

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/imgs/pump.gif

Mark Griffin

[nfpgasmask]

Do the pump and gasket, make sure you replace the tensioner. Don't let anyone talk you out of it, brother Bart

Well, even good 'ol Merlin tried to talk me out of that $287.88 part, but I resisted my internal sense of cheapness and bought it anyway.

Here is a breakdown of what I purchased for the timing belt stuff and the price tag from Merlin:

1) Timing Belt - $58.79
2) Water Pump - $156.79
3) Tensioner Pulley - $287.88
4) Push Rod - $77.74
5) Post/Stud - $14
6) Upper Radiator Hose - $25.13
7) Lower Radiator Hose - $18.07
8) O-rings (coolant leak fix) - $6.58
9) Idler Pulley - $101.44

Plus a few other bits and pieces bringing me to a *quite* painful $784.88!!! ;puke2;

Now, at that cost, I definitely need to do the job myself. I ain't paying another huge sum for a mech to do it!!

I also asked Merlin about changing the radiator itself, and he said it really isn't necessary unless you are having problems. So, I didn't order a new radiator. But, I will be pulling it out, so is there a way to clean a radiator? I would at least like to do that.

Thanks everyone for the excellent help.

Bart

[kodiak]

That’s where I got it! Sorry deermagnet. I should just assume that all the VX wmv files I have are yours.:p

Bart,
All I’d do to the radiator is clean it really good. You could go get it pressure tested, But other then that there’s not mush ells you can do.

[nfpgasmask]

Bart,
All I’d do to the radiator is clean it really good. You could go get it pressure tested, But other then that there’s not mush ells you can do.

OK, cool, but how? Do I just run some water over it??? Hose it down??

Thanks - Bart

[kodiak]

OK, cool, but how? Do I just run some water over it??? Hose it down??

Thanks - Bart

That’s about it. But some dish soap and a tooth brush can help in the really tuff spots.;)

P.S. Don’t paint it. It will make your radiator less efficient.

[nfpgasmask]

P.S. Don’t paint it. It will make your radiator less efficient.

Paint it? Why would I paint it? It's not like I already paint every visible piece of my VX black or anything....:rolleyes: :laughing:

Thanks, Richard!

Bart

[Ascinder]

You can have your radiator rodded out at a radiator shop depending on the radiator. It's just like cleaning your gun barrel after shooting. It just pushes out all the accumulated crud and gunk that has been building up in there since day one. You could probably do it yourself too. I think you just have to remove the side caps which give you access to the radiator cores which are just horizontal tubes. Then find the right size rod to use(like possibly a .223 or .308 brass jag).

[nfpgasmask]

You can have your radiator rodded out at a radiator shop depending on the radiator. It's just like cleaning your gun barrel after shooting. It just pushes out all the accumulated crud and gunk that has been building up in there since day one. You could probably do it yourself too. I think you just have to remove the side caps which give you access to the radiator cores which are just horizontal tubes. Then find the right size rod to use(like possibly a .223 or .308 brass jag).

Cool, thanks. Hopefully I will tackle this project next month or at least no later than May.

You boys are welcome to come by and help out/observe. :)

Bart

[ScottinMA]

Having purchased all the parts from Merlin I had the timing belt replaced yesterday. Labor charge was $320.00. Does that seem reasonable?

[kodiak]

Yeah, that’s sound about right.



Having purchased all the parts from Merlin I had the timing belt replaced yesterday. Labor charge was $320.00. Does that seem reasonable?

[nfpgasmask]

Ok, I am going to get up early and tackle my timing belt change. I plan to document/photograph the process with hopes to put together a nice how-to.

If anyone has any tips/pointers let me know!

Beau/Clint, if you guys wanna come by and observe/help, just gimme a call.

Bart

[etlsport]

good luck! :thumbup::thumbup:

only advice i can give is.. have a few beers handy for when you are done

[rowhard]

Bart, think about using one of these on your radiator too. Know it is to late to buy one, but you might be able to make one or rent one from a radiator shop. Offer to deposit the cost of a replacement and when returned in good condition, they only charge you 5 or 10 bucks.
http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/ab_auto_cooling_system/article/0,,DIY_13676_2271301,00.html

[nfpgasmask]

I have the whole front end apart right now. Radiator, hoses, fan, timing belt covers, it's all out. Been at it (taking my time and taking photos) since 8:30am.

Bart

[pbkid]

wow...looks like time to make a run to go get some brews to keep you going for a few more hours...

[nfpgasmask]

HALP!

It's 7:30, and I am done for today. All I can say is that there are a lot of learn-as-you-go things that happened today. :rolleyes:

The manual sucks, says stuff like "remove this part", but it does not tell you how, doesn't tell you how many bolts/nuts to unwind, nothin.

At this point I am ready to remove the belt, but I am very confused.

Watching the timing belt video makes it look like the hash marks on THE BELT, THE PULLY, AND THE HOUSING should line up. In my case, no matter how many times I turn the engine, all three marks DO NOT line up. So, I take it I am simply supposed to line up the marks on the belt, with the marks on the engine housing, ignoring the position of the the marks on the pulleys. Has anyone done this who knows the procedure? I am nervous about doing it wrong. I have turned the engine at least 6 or more times trying to get everything to line up with no success. :_brickwal

I have time to do this, so hopefully someone can reply and give me some info. Otherwise I may have to wait until Monday so I can call Merlin or my local Isuzu mech. Here are some photos of what I mean:

http://www.nofuture.com/myvx/timing1.jpg

http://www.nofuture.com/myvx/timing2.jpg

This is the LEFT BANK PULLY and the respective marks. You can see the line on the belt is aligned with the hash mark on the housing but NOT aligned with the mark on the pulley. WTF? The bottom photo is the same with the marks in red.

Thanks - Bart

[Travelin2]

Man Bart that is a bummer, I am watching your thread closely because once you break trail here I'm gonna try it. I sure can't offer an answer but the possibilities that pop in my head is first of all someone may have installed a belt previously that is the right length but marked for a different engine. #2 It was installed with the left bank that far out of time.But then how could it run?#3 I seem to remember reading that the cam to crank ratio is such that it takes many revs to make the cam marks all come back around to the belt marks once it is rolled off of perfect. I'm just rambling here but If I were in Reno I'd buy you a cool one and tell you that tomorrow someone that knows is gonna solve this so kick back for the night. Good luck. John

[nfpgasmask]

Man Bart that is a bummer, I am watching your thread closely because once you break trail here I'm gonna try it. I sure can't offer an answer but the possibilities that pop in my head is first of all someone may have installed a belt previously that is the right length but marked for a different engine. #2 It was installed with the left bank that far out of time.But then how could it run?#3 I seem to remember reading that the cam to crank ratio is such that it takes many revs to make the cam marks all come back around to the belt marks once it is rolled off of perfect. I'm just rambling here but If I were in Reno I'd buy you a cool one and tell you that tomorrow someone that knows is gonna solve this so kick back for the night. Good luck. John

Thanks, John. I really do hope someone chimes in who has done this. I was thinking the same thing, but I have owned my VX since 25k and I really can't imagine the timing belt was done or invaded prior to me doing so. But, anything is possible I suppose. Obviously, it is currently installed correctly, otherwise How would I have put 65,000 miles on it with no timing issues?

One possibility is that I need to keep turning it, but again, I have turned the crankshaft pulley an upwards of 10 times trying to get everything to line up. When I stopped, I was turning and it looked like it was almost there, about half an inch off. So I turned it one more time and then it was a half an inch off on the other side, so :wtfy:

Here's the real question, and maybe a stupid one, but I know nothing about engine timing, so here goes:

Why can't I align the marks on the belt with the marks on the housing, remove the belt, and put the new one on with the marks in the same exact spot? How could it POSSIBLY be off if I do it this way?

Maybe I am overthinking this and being uber paranoid, but I REALLY don't want to mess this up.

Bart

[Travelin2]

I see what you mean about changing the belt without moving anything shouldn't make a difference, but if you had to move the crank ever so slightly to get the cogs to align you wouldn't know which way you need to nudge it to be right without marks to go by. From what I read doing the belt change with the cams out of time gets considerably more complicated. I think that is the section where I read it takes a considerable amount of revs to make the marks "catch up". I would suggest leaving the belt on till you find your Guru. He'll surface. Can you hook your battery up so you can turn it over without plugs and have someone watch to see if the cam marks gain as it spins?

[Ascinder]

Why can't I align the marks on the belt with the marks on the housing, remove the belt, and put the new one on with the marks in the same exact spot? How could it POSSIBLY be off if I do it this way?

You can.

[Ldub]

I haven't done this yet, so I don't know how many attachment points can be accessed, BUT...:_wrench:

You could, in theory, wire all the pulleys together (while still being able to r & r the belt) so they can't move when the old belt comes off.
Look at what's there, any threaded holes in the block that could accept a bolt as an attachment point?

Get creative, post lots of pics...hope it goes well from here on...:yes:

[SoTxVx]

I have done this on 2.6L, 3.2L and 3.5L Troopers. The process is the same for the Vehicross.

If your engine was out time you would have known it. Engines just don't run right if this as little as one tooth off.

Don't worry about the marks on the old belt. The marks you need make sure are absolutely right are the cam pulleys to the heads and the crank pulley to the front cover. Get these marks as close to aligned as possible and remove the belt. With the belt off you can make the slight adjustments to the cam pulleys and crank to get it perfect before installing the new belt.

Once you get the new belt installed, turn the engine over by hand and make sure the marks stay lined up (again the pulleys to their reference marks). If they do, congratulations. If not, pull the belt align the marks and try again.

It is a tedious process but with any luck, you will nail the alignment on your first try.

[nfpgasmask]

You can.

Wow, up early I see! :eek: Gimme a call if you can come by.


You could, in theory, wire all the pulleys together (while still being able to r & r the belt) so they can't move when the old belt comes off. Look at what's there, any threaded holes in the block that could accept a bolt as an attachment point?

I see what you mean, but I haven't looked at that yet. I suppose it is a possibility.



Get creative, post lots of pics...hope it goes well from here on...:yes:

Oh yeah, gettin' creative! Yesterday I had to "make" an Isuzu J-tool so I could loosen the bolt on the crankshaft pulley! :cool!: As for pics, I have 90 so far, and a huge write up on the radiator and timing belt is on deck. :thumbup:


Don't worry about the marks on the old belt. The marks you need make sure are absolutely right are the cam pulleys to the heads and the crank pulley to the front cover. Get these marks as close to aligned as possible and remove the belt. With the belt off you can make the slight adjustments to the cam pulleys and crank to get it perfect before installing the new belt. Once you get the new belt installed, turn the engine over by hand and make sure the marks stay lined up (again the pulleys to their reference marks). If they do, congratulations. If not, pull the belt align the marks and try again. It is a tedious process but with any luck, you will nail the alignment on your first try.

OK, so basically, I can ignore the marks on the belt and align the marks on the pulleys. One good thing, is that the marks on the camshaft pulleys align together. Meaning the left bank pulley, and the right bank pulley line up together at the same time. The crankshaft is confusing however since there is no reference mark on the crankshaft pulley itself, so far as I can see.

:wtfy: I guess I am just going to go for it, with the pulleys aligned with the marks on the housing and hope from there!

:rotate: Bart

[SoTxVx]

Bart,

Take a close look at the crankshaft pulley. There should be a dot or a line that you will want to line up with the reference mark on the cover. If not, it will be the keyway on the crank lining up with the mark on the cover. Turn over the engine by hand until you get both cam pulleys lined up with their reference marks on the heads and I bet the crank keyway or pulley mark lines up with a mark on the front cover.

Install the new belt and make sure these marks all line up. It is a pain the arse sometimes to get it perfect, but nothing less than perfect is acceptable.

John

[nfpgasmask]

Y E S

I 99.99% sure I got it! Once you take off the timing belt, the upper pulleys spring to the 12 o'clock position, like the Aussie chap talks about in the 2nd above video. At first this TOTALLY freaked me out, because the instructional video for changing the timing belt MAKES NO MENTION of this happening. They gloss over so many small details in that video, it is almost not worth watching because it will confuse the hell outta you if you have never done this before.

So at this point, I have the water pump changed, the tensioner and the idle pulley all swapped out, and the new belt is in place. Now, all I really have to do is put everything back together and make sure I get my coolant and everything filled up and correct.

So, I am basically "done" changing the belt and associated parts. I just need to button her back up, and I might wait until tomorrow after work (I'm tired). Either way, I am going to have a really nice write up with loads of photos when I am done. I just hope everything works right and my coolant leak STOPS. Otherwise I will be going back in and I don't want to do that!

More soon. :_beer:

Bart

[SoTxVx]

Bart,

If you want to make sure you got it right ...

Turn over the engine by hand. Make sure the mark line up after turning it over. If that is good. Put your harmonic balancer on and just snug it up and start the engine. Make sure it sounds and revs okay. Don't go overboard and make sure you dont get any loose clothing or hair caught up in the moving parts. This will not hurt your engine and can save you a lot of headache if you didn't get it just right. You know how hard it was to get to where you are now. It would be a pain to have to do it all over again.

John

[nfpgasmask]

Turn over the engine by hand. Make sure the mark line up after turning it over.

Yes, I rotated the engine by hand 3 times and the hash marks lined up correctly every time so I think I am good.


Put your harmonic balancer on and just snug it up and start the engine.

:wtfy: What is a harmonic balancer? No idea what you are talking about??

At this point things are getting put back together. Worst case scenario my timing is off and I get CEL and have to go back in. But, I am feeling pretty good about my timing at this point.

What I don't like however, is how the damn manual is so freakin' vague. Finding the torque specs for certain things is a MAJOR pain. I might have to call Merlin tomorrow and see if I can talk to someone who can tell me torque specs for certain parts.

Right now I am replacing the Serpentine Belt Tensioner and pulley. There is 1 bolt holding the top part of the tensioner assembly to the housing. There is also a large allen bolt in the center of the tensioner assembly that I had to remove and for the life of me I cannot find the right torque specs for these bolts. Furthermore, what is the correct torque for the tensioner pulley itself? This is where I have stopped for the night.

But I am getting there and I should hopefully be done tomorrow after work or Tuesday at the latest. :D

Bart

PS - A friend of mine told me I should probably change my "heater hoses" as well. I have no idea what he is talking about. Anyone??

[SoTxVx]

The harmonic balancer is the big round piece of metal that was on the end of the crankshaft. It had the large bolt going through it to the crankshaft end that you probably had fun getting loose. It had the lower sepentine belt pulley bolted to it. It had to come off before you get the lower cover off to completely expose the belt.

If you feel real good about the timing then you may not want to start the engine before reassembly. I just know that the first one I did, I ended up doing twice because I got the crank pulley one tooth off and had to tear it all back down. Thank goodness it was on a 2.6L older trooper that was not as involved as the 3.2L and 3.5L motors are. And the second time you do it, it goes faster after you stop cussing. :)

I don't believe there are any heater hoses that are easy to replace at the same time as the timing belt.

John

[nfpgasmask]

Well, like I said, EVERYTHING lines up. So, I am pretty confident, and I am not worried about the timing at this point. But then again, I have never done this before so who knows. :eek:

I do however have the following questions:

1) Once everything is back together, do I just fill the radiator with coolant through the fill cap on the top? I have 2.5 gallons of coolant ready.

2) Torque specs, how important are they? I am stuck on the serpentine belt tensioner assembly. To remove the tensioner assembly, you have to remove a single bolt in the upper corner of the assembly. You also have to remove a large allen bolt from the center of the tensioner assembly. This will allow you to remove the assembly, however I cannot find the torque specs for these parts.

3) Should my timing belt be slightly off, what will happen when I crank the engine over for the first time? Will I simply get a rough running engine and a CEL? Will is just stall out? What should I be prepared for if I effed up somewhere? I won't do any serious engine damage, will I?

Once I figure all this out, I will be able to finish. :thumbup:

Thanks - Bart

[SoTxVx]

Bart,

If you still have time and feel uncomfortable about the radiator condition... Take it to a radiator shop. They will pull the tanks and will rod out the core cleaning all of the cooling tubes. When you put it back together, just fill the radiator and when the engine gets up to temperature, the thermostat will open and you will need to top it off again. Should cost no more than ~$100 (at least in this part of the country). If you don't have time, it will only cost you another $40-$70 to have the shop take it out and do the work later on.

If you can't find the torque specs, crank it down. you may want to use a small amount of loctite blue. Here is a rough guide. Note that fine threaded bolts withstand higher torque values than rough threads.

http://dodgeram.org/tech/specs/bolts/M_bolts.html

There is some debate if the engine is an interference of non-interference but searching on the subject, Tone (RIP) posted that our engine is a non interference engine. That's good enough for me. You should not have any valve to piston contact even if the timing is off.

You might want to read this post and give a second thought to starting up the engine before you get it all back together. It can't hurt and may save you an additional teardown to get it right.

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=8070

John

[nfpgasmask]

Hey John,

Thanks for all your help.

Here is what the manual says for the serpentine belt tensioner:

"Install auto tensioner assembly and tighten the fixing bolts to the specified torque:
Shorter Bolt: 20 N.m (14.8 lb ft)
Longer Bolt: 39 N.m (28.8 lb ft)"

This confuses me because:

a) There is only one bolt that holds the tensioner assembly that can be replaced with a torque wrench

b) The other bolt is a large (14mm iirc) allen bolt, how does one torque an allen bolt?

c) What is the torque specs for the bolt that holds the actual pulley to the tensioner assembly?

This is driving me nuts! I hate how freakin' vague the manual is. :_brickwal

Bart

PS - When using a torque wrench, how do you adjust it down to numbers like 28.8? Ugg.

[Travelin2]

Bart; you can get allen sockets that fit on your torque wrench and the 28.8 is probably just a conversion number from the Newton scale or something. I read that as 29 lb/ft.

[nfpgasmask]

You might want to read this post and give a second thought to starting up the engine before you get it all back together. It can't hurt and may save you an additional teardown to get it right.

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=8070

John

I just read this whole thread, and right from the beginning, when I read what Kyle did, I understood that he did it wrong.

In my case, I already had the TSB read and re-read in my head. I absolutely did not rotate the crankshaft or the pulleys AFTER the original belt was removed. I'm going to outline everything in my how-to (provided I successfully finish :) ) but here is a quick breakdown:

After I opened up the timing belt compartment by removing the three covers I rotated the engine by hand with my breaker bar. This was where I first got confused. There are reference marks on the camshaft pulleys and on the engine housing. The passenger side reference mark is at 10 o'clock while the driver's side pulley is at 2 o'clock. While cranking the engine over by hand before the original belt was removed, every complete rotation yielded the same results, the pulleys lined up with the reference mark on the engine housing at the same time, every time. What confused me, was that I *thought* the old mark on the belt needed to line up as well. But, after talking to a mech friend of mine and reading and reading, I came to the conclusion that the marks on the belt are for REINSTALLATION only. I hope I am not wrong here, but I rotated the engine by hand (prior to removing the original belt) damn near 15 times, and the lines on the belt NEVER lined up with the marks on the pulleys and the housing together.

So basically, you need to line up the marks on the pulleys with the marks on the housing, ignoring the marks on the original belt. At this point the mark on the crankshaft pulley will be at 3 o'clock. Now you are ready to remove the belt. Loosening the bolts on the tensioner, the belt will come loose, and the camshaft pulleys will SPRING to the 12 o'clock position. This was confusion point #2 for me. Again, after talking to my mech friend it all started to make sense. So now, you have the old belt off. All you do at this point, is put the new belt on, starting with the passenger side camshaft pulley, aligning the white line on the belt with the notch on the pulley, and hold it in place with a binder clip. Then, do the same with the driver's side pulley. To do this however, you need to have a wrench (and a helper if possible) to pull the passenger side pulley BACK to the 10 o'clock position. You may need to play a little with the driver's side pulley as well. So once you get all three marks lined up correctly on the camshaft pulleys, you will need a helper to pull the camshaft pulleys back to their reference marks and hold there so you can get a little slack in the belt. Then you can crawl under the VX and carefully align the dotted lines on the new belt with the notch at the 9 o'clock position (180 degrees from TDC) on the camshaft pulley. Once you have the belt on all three pulleys, the tensioner will need to be replaced. To do this, you need to wrench again on the tensioner pulley to give yourself enough room to put the new tensioner in place, bolt it down and pull the pin. At this point, you can rotate the engine by hand again, the marks on the camshaft pulleys should align with the marks on the engine housing together, at every full revolution. You will also notice that the white lines on the timing belt do not align the same after every revolution, just like the original belt, but as long as the pulleys consistently line up together, you are good.

***To anyone reading this, I am not done yet and the above statement is speculative! :D

Bart

[nfpgasmask]

Bart; you can get allen sockets that fit on your torque wrench and the 28.8 is probably just a conversion number from the Newton scale or something. I read that as 29 lb/ft.

Cool, funny you should say this, as I was just talking to the maintenance guy here at work and he said the same thing.

Thanks! Bart

[kodiak]

Wow! You definitely did your research, good job. I just finished replacing the Clutch and Clutch master cylinder on my sisters 04 Ford Focus. Talk about a pain, you pretty much need to completely take the car apart. But ones you get it all back together and back on the road you really fell like you’ve accomplished something. Ones you get this job finish and realize how much money you saved I bet you’ll be doing all your repairs your sell from now on. :thumbup:

[nfpgasmask]

Wow! You definitely did your research, good job. I just finished replacing the Clutch and Clutch master cylinder on my sisters 04 Ford Focus. Talk about a pain, you pretty much need to completely take the car apart. But ones you get it all back together and back on the road you really fell like you’ve accomplished something. Ones you get this job finish and realize how much money you saved I bet you’ll be doing all your repairs your sell from now on. :thumbup:

Yeah, well, that's what I am hoping for!!! ;)


I just got off the phone with Merlin. I tell ya, he is one seriously indispensible resource to ALL of us out there who still love our ZuZus.

Cheers to Merlin!

Anyway, he answered a bunch of questions I had, but we sat on the phone together for a while and he could not find the torque specs for the 3 bolts in question either. However, he pretty much assured me that I can just crank these down good and tight and I should be ok. So, I am going to trust him, as I have before and move forward tonight.

In the meantime, if anyone can magically source the specs on the below bolts on the auto tensioner (serpentine belt tensioner pulley and housing) that would be spectacular!.

http://www.nofuture.com/myvx/sbtp.jpg

:cool!: Bart

[MSHardeman]

Bart,

I can't help you out with torque specs, but I have to say that you are one brave dude for taking this on. I know that I should be doing the timing belt/ water pump swap soon as Vicki is about to hit 83K on the odo (but it's much more due to tire size). I was all proud of myself for installing a CB without frying the whole car, but this little project of yours if way above and beyond.

I'm not too bad at following directions, so I will anxiously await your write up and then tackle this job after Moab.

Speaking of which; you aren't going to make it to Moab this year, are you? I only ask because Merlin and his wife are coming out to join us for a few days this year, and you could thank him in person for all of his help.

[nfpgasmask]

I can't help you out with torque specs, but I have to say that you are one brave dude for taking this on. I know that I should be doing the timing belt/ water pump swap soon as Vicki is about to hit 83K on the odo (but it's much more due to tire size). I was all proud of myself for installing a CB without frying the whole car, but this little project of yours if way above and beyond.

Hey Mark, I was actually going to comment on your thread soon and check things out, because I would really like to have a permanently mounted CB in my VX as well.

In all honesty, the timing belt was not that bad (of course I am saying this and I am still not done). You really just need to stay focused, take your time, concentrate on what you are doing, and most importantly, stay organized. There are so many pieces that you need to take out. I bought a box of sandwich baggies and some masking tape. Every time I took off a part, I put the bolts and the part (if it fit) into the baggie and taped it shut with some masking tape. On the tape I wrote exactly what part the bolts are for. I also kept notes along the way for every step, to ensure that when I am done I can just go backwards and put everything in correctly. Also, the notes will help me when I go to do my write-up. I also have 150 photos of the process so far. I am going to try and finish up tonight, and if everything works (oh man, I hope so) then I can honestly say that the job is not so hard. And with the instructions I plan to write, anyone with moderate mechanical skills and the right tools can do this job in HALF the time it took me.


Speaking of which; you aren't going to make it to Moab this year, are you? I only ask because Merlin and his wife are coming out to join us for a few days this year, and you could thank him in person for all of his help.

I would love to, but this year I am most likely not going to have the time or the money to go much of anywhere. I just finished pouring a patio in my back yard (that job, I left to the professionals) and that set me back A LOT. I haven't been this broke in YEARS. I am kinda stressing this week to be honest. Also, I am trying to get my garage fully outfitted with a shop, and that is going to eat up a lot of spare cash over the summer. And all that is in preparation for my next big vehicle project which is on it's way over from Australia right now.

In addition to all of this nonsense, I am serious about picking up a 1st gen Trooper to replace my VX so the VX can "rest" and be more pampered while I beat the hell outta the Trooper daily.

So, 2009 is completely stuffed for me already, but it's all good!

Bart

[CrnCnn]

Didnt know you were working on it this weekend. I havent been on this thread really.

I put a new power steering line on Cari's Jeep and lifted it on saturday.

[nfpgasmask]

Didnt know you were working on it this weekend. I havent been on this thread really.

I put a new power steering line on Cari's Jeep and lifted it on saturday.

NICE! Yeah, 7:30am to 8:00pm both Saturday and Sunday I was slavin away in the garage and I loved every minute of it. :)

Bart

[nfpgasmask]

:jump:

w00t! Tonight I got everything buttoned up. I refilled the coolant, connected the battery, and cranked her over!

S U C C E S S ! !

I am so relieved. I still have to put the front cladding on and replace the front skid plate, but other than that, all appears to be normal!!

I had to make one final run to Kragen tonight at 8:45 to get a hose clamp as I broke one of the hose clamps when I was putting the radiator hoses back on.

She started right up, no CEL, no rough running, sounded fine if not better than normal, took her for a real short spin around the block, gave her some serious throttle and nothing seemed normal. In fact, my VX seems to be running and shifting smoother than ever. I have no idea why, but maybe changing these parts out does something for performance?????

Anyway, I'm super tired, and dirty, and I need to finish my beer, but I can say now with confidence that this is DEFINITELY something we can all do, especially once my instructions are all done!!

:rotate: Bart

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

:jump:

w00t! Tonight I got everything buttoned up. I refilled the coolant, connected the battery, and cranked her over!

S U C C E S S ! !

I am so relieved. I still have to put the front cladding on and replace the front skid plate, but other than that, all appears to be normal!!

I had to make one final run to Kragen tonight at 8:45 to get a hose clamp as I broke one of the hose clamps when I was putting the radiator hoses back on.

She started right up, no CEL, no rough running, sounded fine if not better than normal, took her for a real short spin around the block, gave her some serious throttle and nothing seemed normal. In fact, my VX seems to be running and shifting smoother than ever. I have no idea why, but maybe changing these parts out does something for performance?????

Anyway, I'm super tired, and dirty, and I need to finish my beer, but I can say now with confidence that this is DEFINITELY something we can all do, especially once my instructions are all done!!

:rotate: Bart

You sir are my hero! I've got this operation for my VX coming up shortly and I am probably going to turn it over to my mechanic as I don't think I want to tackle this.

If I do work up the courage...I have you to thank!

[nfpgasmask]

You sir are my hero! I've got this operation for my VX coming up shortly and I am probably going to turn it over to my mechanic as I don't think I want to tackle this.

If I do work up the courage...I have you to thank!

:D Thanks! In all seriousness though, it is not that bad. I think it would be a little more frustrating/difficult if your belt was broken and your timing was off to start. But doing this as a regular maintenance step, it's pretty straight forward. Like I said above, get organized, get the tools ready, take your time, and you CAN do it.

I am going to start working on a Word document tomorrow that I can turn into a PDF file. I guess it's time for me to put a how-to section on my website as well. I'm going to do my tranny service again soon so I might as well document that also.

Stay tuned.

Bart

[kodiak]

You, Sir, are a steely-eyed missile man!;)

[Mrs. CRNCNN]

Didnt know you were working on it this weekend. I havent been on this thread really.

I put a new power steering line on Cari's Jeep and lifted it on saturday.


Not to brag or anything...my jeep is now taller than Clint's VX. SORRY Babe!!! :clap::clap::clap::clap:

[MSHardeman]

Congrats Bart. I will be looking forward to your write up (with parts and tool list?) so I can tackle this myself. I guess that I had better wait for the weather to stablize here so if it goes past a weekend thing I can ride the bike or the motorcycle to work.

Nothing like a job well done.:thumbup:

[nfpgasmask]

Congrats Bart. I will be looking forward to your write up (with parts and tool list?) so I can tackle this myself. I guess that I had better wait for the weather to stablize here so if it goes past a weekend thing I can ride the bike or the motorcycle to work.

Nothing like a job well done.:thumbup:

Yup, yes, yeah! I will have a full breakdown completed soon, tools, parts, tips, warnings, it's all gonna be in there! ;)

I took my time, I mean, I really took my time. I would definitely think this could be done in one day, especially once the questions are all out of the way. But, I would rather give myself a full weekend, even if I was to do it again.

Bart

[nfpgasmask]

Not to brag or anything...my jeep is now taller than Clint's VX. SORRY Babe!!! :clap::clap::clap::clap:

You just need some nice meat under there now.

;) Bart

[CrnCnn]

You just need some nice meat under there now.

;) Bart

Under hers or mine? Her's has nice meat now, thats why she is taller. I need some to get back to higher status.

[tom4bren]

Bart,

When you get the pdf done, you can't post it to the How2 yet. Scott's working on that.

What you can do is to upload it to the DownLoad section & if you ask real nice, maybe Scott will move it to the How2 section for you.

I just put pdf's of Kenny's and of Dave Chang's bearing repack there as well if anyone needs them.

Tom

[SoTxVx]

Way to go Bart. Nailing this job is no easy feat. Should be an inspiration to all of us who know we need to change the timing belt and spend some quality time with our VX.

John

[nfpgasmask]

Way to go Bart. Nailing this job is no easy feat. Should be an inspiration to all of us who know we need to change the timing belt and spend some quality time with our VX.

John

Quality time is right! Actually, I really quite enjoyed digging into my VX and getting to know more about her! I learned A LOT and I have been working up my how-to ALL DAY.

Thanks!!!!

Bart

[Mrs. CRNCNN]

Under hers or mine? Her's has nice meat now, thats why she is taller. I need some to get back to higher status.

Never!!! hehe!!:dance:

[tom4bren]

I finally finished converting Bart's write up to pdf. I'll get it posted later today. I'll post the link to it here if anyone wants to download it.

I tried not to take many artistic freedoms with the conversion. Where he used colored text, I used highlight. I added Step 6 (it was missing). I renumbered steps 38 through the end (there were 2 step 38's). Oh yeah, I added step 57 ... just 'cause ...

Bart did an excellent job on this & it's well worth adding to your archive for future use.

Tom

[tom4bren]

Moncha's Da Man. He's already gotten the file posted.

http://www.vehicross.info/modules.php?name=Content&file=viewarticle&id=63