Thinking about these bilstien shocks...

[killinformula]

http://www.eshocks.com/bil_veh.asp?Model_Index=7Q23&Manf=All&SubChar=Q&Spec=

I have read some posts and am thinkin of getting the B46-1738-H2 for the front and the B46-1739-H1 for the back....

opinions???

[kodiak]

I wouldn’t get new shocks unless the ones that are on it are bad or you’re doing a lift. The stock shocks are better then most of the aftermarket replacements. If you’re trying to soften the ride you’ll lose some of the high speed off road grip that the VX is famous for.

[killinformula]

how about replacng the shocks... i found these on ebay...


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KYB-4-SHOCKS-ISUZU-VEHICROSS-99-to-01-1999-to-2001_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a570Q7c66Q3a2 Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3 a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem 400016900971QQitemZ400016900971QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5 fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
and will buy them if thats what i need

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

Might be a good alternative if you need new shocks & want the same brand as stock BUT these are not external reservoir shocks like what's on the VX...unless I'm full of doo doo....but, that's what I see from their pic on the ebay ad.

[taylorRichie]

I'll trade you my bilstiens with 1,000 miles on them for your stock ones with ???,??? miles :D

[Ldub]

how about replacng the shocks... i found these on ebay...


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KYB-4-SHOCKS-ISUZU-VEHICROSS-99-to-01-1999-to-2001_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a570Q7c66Q3a2 Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3 a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem 400016900971QQitemZ400016900971QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5 fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
and will buy them if thats what i need

Jolly Roger hit the nail on the head...:_wrench:

Those you found on ebay are KYB, but not close to the same performance as OEM.
Bilstiens or Ranchos are the closest match in performance to OEM.

[killinformula]

Jolly Roger hit the nail on the head...:_wrench:

Those you found on ebay are KYB, but not close to the same performance as OEM.
Bilstiens or Ranchos are the closest match in performance to OEM.

are those H1 and H2's a good deal then?

[killinformula]

how will i tel lif my shocks are bad? been 7 years since i have delt with anything other than my formulas shocks which are a dime a dozen

[kodiak]

More then likely the shocks are fine. If the VX feels like a pogo stick when you hit a bump that’s a sign there bad, if it just breaks your spine then that’s normal. I’d put the money in to a nice custom exhaust system if it doesn’t have one already. ;)


how will i tel lif my shocks are bad? been 7 years since i have delt with anything other than my formulas shocks which are a dime a dozen

[killinformula]

yea i feel the bumps haha so i guess i will keep my shocks the way they are... exhaust will have to wait till next summer

[Ldub]

Keep you're eyes peeled for used OEM shocks on ebay & on the forums.
You will probably have to pick up a couple of sets to get four good ones that are worth rebuilding. I've never bought a used set that didn't have at least one that was toast.

[killinformula]

yea i will be at the dealership to get my brakes checked out... i will look at the shocks as well... just what will i need to look for?

well than my question is... Other than the stock shocks are the bilstiens a good replacement?

[Ldub]

The "bounce test" is a good indicator, also any sign of oil leakage.

[killinformula]

The "bounce test" is a good indicator, also any sign of oil leakage.

thank you i will check it out...

[LittleBeast]

Keep you're eyes peeled for used OEM shocks on ebay & on the forums.
You will probably have to pick up a couple of sets to get four good ones that are worth rebuilding. I've never bought a used set that didn't have at least one that was toast.

Yupe, I bought a used set from a member here for $100, and shipped them to Bruce's Suspension for $30 who will totally rebuild them for $500 add to that $30 shipping to get them back and I am looking at $660 or so for 4 totally rebuilt Stock VX shocks, $165 per shock, I think I would pay that for the VX stock shocks, wooohooo!!!!!

[VehiGAZ]

how about replacng the shocks... i found these on ebay...


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KYB-4-SHOCKS-ISUZU-VEHICROSS-99-to-01-1999-to-2001_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a570Q7c66Q3a2 Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3 a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem 400016900971QQitemZ400016900971QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5 fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
and will buy them if thats what i need

NOOOOOO!!!! Don't buy KYB Gas-A-Justs!!! Total junk - not nearly strong enough for the VX's springs. That's what I had on my VX when I bought it, and it was a perfect ride - for a rodeo rider! I replaced them within months.

The Bils you linked to are a solid deal - around $260 for a set of 4 is a very decent price, and cheaper than mechanics' parts suppliers. I would call them and see if they have the front shocks in the H1 spec - stiffer. (That' the setup I have.) If I were to do it again, I would see if they have the rears in H2 spec - I think my rear suspension hits sharp bumps too hard.

As noted, if you see a sign of a leak on the top of any of the shocks, they are bad. The Bounce Test (push each corner down hard and release - watch for spring-like bouncing action versus one rebound and a stop) seems straight-forward enough, but does it is very hard to detect a marginal shock by this procedure.

Keep this in mind - a vehicle rides on its springs, which bounce up and down. The shocks are supposed to allow the springs to compress, but counteract the spring's boing-boing-boing tendency. If the spring is acting springy, then the shock is not doing its job. Similarly, you can have a soft spring with too stiff a shock, or you can have a very strong spring (as in the VX) with too soft a shock. Getting the balance right is not so easy- just ask any Civic driver who put sport springs on his ricer but didn't replace the stock shocks.

Good luck!!

[killinformula]

NOOOOOO!!!! Don't buy KYB Gas-A-Justs!!! Total junk - not nearly strong enough for the VX's springs. That's what I had on my VX when I bought it, and it was a perfect ride - for a rodeo rider! I replaced them within months.

The Bils you linked to are a solid deal - around $260 for a set of 4 is a very decent price, and cheaper than mechanics' parts suppliers. I would call them and see if they have the front shocks in the H1 spec - stiffer. (That' the setup I have.) If I were to do it again, I would see if they have the rears in H2 spec - I think my rear suspension hits sharp bumps too hard.

As noted, if you see a sign of a leak on the top of any of the shocks, they are bad. The Bounce Test (push each corner down hard and release - watch for spring-like bouncing action versus one rebound and a stop) seems straight-forward enough, but does it is very hard to detect a marginal shock by this procedure.

Keep this in mind - a vehicle rides on its springs, which bounce up and down. The shocks are supposed to allow the springs to compress, but counteract the spring's boing-boing-boing tendency. If the spring is acting springy, then the shock is not doing its job. Similarly, you can have a soft spring with too stiff a shock, or you can have a very strong spring (as in the VX) with too soft a shock. Getting it right (just ask any Civic driver who put sport springs on his ricer but didn't replace the stock shocks.

Good luck!!
thank you! If the shocks are gone i will betting the bils... thanks a gain for a detailed explanation of what to look for, i will keep my eyes open for oil leaks when she is on lift and will get a friend to help me check for "bounce"

[Riff Raff]

Hmmm. I remember when I bought my first car, a classic 1968 Mercury Cougar (yes, I still have it & is now restored to show quality). Back then, I was 17 and the first thing I wanted to do when I got it home was jack it up in the rear end and put huge meats on the rear axle. I remember my Dad saying: "Son-- the automobile manufacturer's spend millions & millions of dollars designing & perfecting an automobile; and now you're telling me, the first thing you want to do is change it???" Needless to say, I followed my Dad's advice and kept my Cougar 100% stock (and it was the right choice).

What I'm trying to say is that the OEM stock shocks on the VX are the very best there is for the VX, period. As such, only factory OEM Isuzu replacement shocks (with exact same part number) should be used at time of replacement. Any other brand or model of shock on the VX would be a downgrade in performance. Stick with the factory OEM shocks when replacement is needed. You'll be glad you did.

[VehiGAZ]

Point taken, Riff Raff, but $2k for OEM shocks?!?!? I might spend that kind of money for stock shocks on my 928, but that car is - like your Cougar - a "collector" car. The VX is the one and only daily driver for most of us, and needs to be kept running for a reasonable price. And because of Isuzu's abandonment of the US market, any running VX will sooner or later turn into a Franken-VX, half-filled with aftermarket and custom-fabricated parts.

Our man killinformula is not trying to improve on the VX's engineering - he may just have to replace some defective shocks, and the Bils offer pretty much the same ride as the OEM shocks for an eighth of the price . I know they are the same because I compared my Bilstein ride directly to a stock VX's ride, and it is so close that I'd bet not one of us would know if we were riding on Bilstiens unless we were told.

Otherwise, I 100% share your perspective that a lay owner is seldom going to out-engineer a team of professionals. I wish I were smart enough to have figured that one out just using common sense, but it took many, many modification projects on various cars I've owned over the years to learn the lesson - most of the time, you make an improvement in one area, but you pay for it with something that got worse because of your mod.

In the VX's case, the special remote-reservoir OEM shocks are not the only shock in the world that could possibly afford the VX good ride quality in everyday driving. There are lots of off-the-shelf shocks that could have worked. But let's face it - they went with the gimmicky shocks for marketing purposes - to give the VX some high-tech off-road cred.

The other thing to consider is that the fancy-pants OEM shocks are, well, built kind of crappy. It seems like a third of the people here have had one or more OEM shocks go bad well before 75k miles, and some in the first 20k miles. That's a pretty bad failure rate. I would question the wisdom of replacing a ridiculously expensive and prone-to-failure OEM shock with another, when you can get warrantied-for-life Bilsteins for a fraction of the price.

[Riff Raff]

Perhaps another option instead of buying brand new off-the-shelf Isuzu OEM shocks since they're so expensive, is to buy "used" OEM. There has been an enormous amount of VX's wrecked already this Winter, and I constantly see people trying to part-out their VX due to them being totaled (just take a peek at the other threads). Consequently, there should be plenty of decent "used" OEM shocks available still in good shape for cheap money. Time to ponder.

[VehiGAZ]

Point taken again. I'd suggest buying an extra front & rear while you're at it, though, for when they do crap out.

[SlowPro48]

I have to disagree with you there, Vehigaz - the OEMs aren't "crappy" - they're actually very decent dampers. It's just that they have a floating piston instead of a bladder to contain the nitrogen so it's inevitable that a little N2 is going to escape past the seal over the course of thousands of miles. And it will get worse over time as the nitrogen piston seal wears. That doesn't mean it's a bad design. Some of the best shocks in the world utilize it. Look how many top racers run Ohlins on their bike. It does mean you'll probably have to give your shocks a shot of N2 every now and then. If N2 pressure gets too low you get cavitation which creates lots of bubbles. Bubble-filled shock fluid causes loss of damping just like old, sheared, thinned-out shock fluid. Only difference is tired shock fluid is tired all the time - so you can do the "bounce test" with the vehicle sitting in the driveway and tell something's not right - but bubbles separate out after a few minutes of sitting - so when you walk out and do the "bounce test" in the driveway it feels good - then you head down the road and after the first bump you're driving around in BoingBoing City. Try the bounce test immediately AFTER you've driven the vehicle over a good set of bumps or if you're not off-road at least find a dirt road with some washboard or some braking bumps right before an intersection. And bounce the back - the rear overhang accentuates the effect of shocks gone soft. If it's bouncy, your shocks are in BAD shape. I've found that the ride and handling suffer long before the thing fails the bounce test. When I feel the rear compression damping starting to go away, I know it's time for a nitrogen fix. If you wait until your rebound damping is gone (bounce test failure) then you've been riding around on bad suspension needlessly.

Killinformula, if you like the original ride, you might want to try pumping up the OEMs before installing a set of aftermarkets. You might be able to revive them and restore your original ride quality pretty cheap. The bike shop up the road from me charges $10 to do all four. I've been surprised at how long the original shock fluid has held up - 85K miles and still damping well. If a N2 recharge doesn't do it and your OEMs are just plain worn out or they're leaking, you still don't need to pay $2000 for a set of new ones - all wear items can be replaced. They are totally rebuildable unless you have a bent or dinged-up shaft. And it doesn't cost much more than a set of aftermarket, non-reservoir shocks. Actually, if you wanted to buy the parts (sealhead, piston seals, various o-rings) and do it yourself, it would be cheaper than the Bilsteins but it would cost you in time. From what I hear, the fronts with their upside down reservoir are a PITA to bleed. I know when it comes time to rebuild mine I'm calling The Shock Doc, aka Bruce Triplett.

Life's too short to to rebuild shocks...

[TheGanzman]

To add to this thread; from an RV perspective, many owners are unhappy w/the ride/handling characteristics of their stock RV shocks. The "big news" in that arena is Koni FSD Shocks; those folks that have found/installed them for their particular application are universally happy! I can say from experience that a motorhome shares most of the same ride/handling foibles as an SUV; you want 'em firm when you DO - the whole REST of the time, you want a compliant ride with good rebound and handling characteristics. If someone wants to do some checking to see if the VX is covered by Koni FSD's yet, it might be worthwhile; I'll do it myself if I remember:

http://www.shox.com/koni/koni-shocks/koni

Ask for Mark...

[killinformula]

Killinformula, if you like the original ride, you might want to try pumping up the OEMs before installing a set of aftermarkets. You might be able to revive them and restore your original ride quality pretty cheap. The bike shop up the road from me charges $10 to do all four. I've been surprised at how long the original shock fluid has held up - 85K miles and still damping well. If a N2 recharge doesn't do it and your OEMs are just plain worn out or they're leaking, you still don't need to pay $2000 for a set of new ones - all wear items can be replaced. They are totally rebuildable unless you have a bent or dinged-up shaft. And it doesn't cost much more than a set of aftermarket, non-reservoir shocks. Actually, if you wanted to buy the parts (sealhead, piston seals, various o-rings) and do it yourself, it would be cheaper than the Bilsteins but it would cost you in time. From what I hear, the fronts with their upside down reservoir are a PITA to bleed. I know when it comes time to rebuild mine I'm calling The Shock Doc, aka Bruce Triplett.

Life's too short to to rebuild shocks...


I am going to read up on the rebuild for the shocks, it seems like a fun project... I have been so busy at work lately that i havent had any time to work on a car, so hopefully i will have time this break to look into doing something like that... the ride of the car is stiff, it almost feels like my trans am (lowered and on 315' tires and i feel everything)... it doesnt seem to bounce on me at all, just seem like the body is one solid piece and the tires just ride over the bumps... from what i have been reading it seems like it should be that way...

how comfortable should it be for people to ride in the back? when i hit a bump, it seems like it is a rough ride back there

[SlowPro48]

It sounds like your shocks are fine then. The VehiCross with OEM suspension is a stiff riding vehicle - no getting around that. And yeah - passengers in the back take a beating. I sometimes wonder if Isuzu left out cupholders on purpose to discourage beverages in the back. Some of the bigger hits would toss a drink right out of a cupholder and into the floor.

Ganzman that's an interesting find there. Looks a lot like Edelbrock's IAS shock.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/shocks/shocks_main.shtml

We've got shim stacks which are inherently speed sensitive so not sure how much of an advantage these inertia controlled gizmos would be. Looks like a nice, simple idea to vary damping though. And even though we've got speed sensitive damping, the flow is ultimately limited by port size so who knows - maybe the Konis or Edelbrocks would be a better real world compromise between comfort and handling.

Then again... we can always re-valve our shocks. Anybody got the cajones to drill bigger holes in their pistons and re-shim?

[TheGanzman]

Addendum: I heard back from Mark @ shox.com - no application for the VX yet, and he doubts they'll make 'em for us; I DO have the name of the guy at Koni though, so I'm gonna "pitch" him on making 'em. Seems like a worthwhile application, since the OEM's are a bit steep pricewise; plus they'll be more & more VX's that will be needing shock replacement(s) as time goes by. Add to the mix this very Forum of enthusiasts, and maybe they'll judge it to be a good idea...

[etlsport]

Addendum: I heard back from Mark @ shox.com - no application for the VX yet, and he doubts they'll make 'em for us; I DO have the name of the guy at Koni though, so I'm gonna "pitch" him on making 'em. Seems like a worthwhile application, since the OEM's are a bit steep pricewise; plus they'll be more & more VX's that will be needing shock replacement(s) as time goes by. Add to the mix this very Forum of enthusiasts, and maybe they'll judge it to be a good idea...

dont forget to mention they will fit troopers too!

[VehiGAZ]

how comfortable should it be for people to ride in the back? when i hit a bump, it seems like it is a rough ride back there

That is 100% normal. Make sure any back seat passengers put their seat belts on nice and tight. :-)

[VehiGAZ]

I have to disagree with you there, Vehigaz - the OEMs aren't "crappy" - they're actually very decent dampers.

I think the design is great, SlowPro. But I think they are not very well built. In the 4 years I've been on this board I have heard about waaaay too many failures to consider it a quality part. And they don't go bad from loss of nitrogen - they leak fluid and die.

[killinformula]

i looked at all my shocks, and they look good, i didnt see any leaks or oil coming out... i think i will keep them, they are quiet and good still, so no need to change!

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

The other thing to consider is that the fancy-pants OEM shocks are, well, built kind of crappy. It seems like a third of the people here have had one or more OEM shocks go bad well before 75k miles, and some in the first 20k miles. That's a pretty bad failure rate. I would question the wisdom of replacing a ridiculously expensive and prone-to-failure OEM shock with another, when you can get warrantied-for-life Bilsteins for a fraction of the price.

Yeah, count me as one of the original owners that had to replace 2 front shocks at around 23k. My front-end was bouncing like a pogo-stick at every stop! The dealer replaced the fronts free of charge under warranty.

now, flash to the present...at almost 9 years old and nearly 86k miles my fronts still feel great but my rears (original) seem to take an extra bounce on rough roads.

I have to admit...I'm having trouble letting go of the OEM shocks. I've always liked the fact that the VX is the only production vehicle with external reservoir shocks. To remove them seems like a sin.

I'm a huge fan of how they never rusted (being a rust-belt native) as they are of aluminum construction if my memory is correct. I cringe at the fact I might have to go with aftermarket shocks that in a short period of time will most likely look like crapola.

I installed trailmaster shocks on my '79 Bronco with 6" lift and they rusted up after like one winter.

If I do go with aftermarket...I'm keeping my originals and going to look into getting them rebuilt or at the very least check into recharged (didn't know about this option!).

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

stuck working christmas night (tried to get off :()and using the computer @ work; I noticed that the shocks on the Japanese site with parts for the VX are indeed Bilstiens... MUCH cheaper to order here in the states..lol.

Just thought it was nice to know that they seem to like the Bilsteins too!

http://64.233.187.102/translate_c?hl=EN&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://thumbnail.image.rakuten.co.jp/s/%3F%400_mall/padokku/cabinet/suspension/130bill1.jpg&usg=ALkJrhhyaJIJ7GeEt--gJQCUhOhCI9LnUg

[VehiGAZ]

Are those the right ones? I vaguely remember that one pair had post mounts on top, whiel the other pair had loop mounts on top. After 3.5 years, I'm far from sure.

[etlsport]

yea the fronts have posts on top, the rears have loops

[VX KAT]

Just got my VX this week (2001 Foxfire Red with 63,500k miles). Been following this thread about the shocks, trying to learn as much as I can from this great forum. I wondered about the shocks so I got under it and snapped some photos. I'm trying to figure out how to post them...as soon as I finish this post I'll try.

I don't "think" I see any evidence of leakage of any kind on the shocks. But wondered if anybody else sees any issues. We live on dirt road, ride is very rough, plus sounds like car is "shaking" apart. I know VX rides rough according to all info I've read, but I don't have anything to compare it to. That's why I'm following this thread, debating OEM vs. Bilsteins, etc... Don't even know if mine need anything. Haven't yet found anything that explains what the advantage is to having the reservoir type? I'm sure there's some benefit.

Thanks for any input!

[Solitude]

Here's a small test.. drive the VX around for a while.. then test the temperature of the shocks.. if they are cold.. they arent working

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

Are those the right ones? I vaguely remember that one pair had post mounts on top, whiel the other pair had loop mounts on top. After 3.5 years, I'm far from sure.


You guy's are right...but, that was the page for the VehiCROSS..must be a general picture they are using I guess??