Window issue...AGAIN, sorry....Need some advice?

[VX KAT]

I'm trying to fix my window issues.....I've read a ton of posts here, but could still use some input & advice from you pros! HELP!! :_brickwal:

:_thinking1) When I got my VX last week I tried "Phinnes" fix where I widened front track & bent the bracket forward, it improved a bit. Then I cleaned out what looked like years of old lubricant junk, some dry and cracked, some beige & thick & greasy. Despite reading a ton of posts here about window fixes, being ignorant, (remember, be kind....) I sprayed WD40 on the front rubber track. Window worked perfectly.

Then learned not to use WD40 as it can dry out. So a few days later, took the door apart as window was slowing down already, removed the front rubber track, cleaned it out (and yes, the WD40 was dry). Interestingly, with the rubber front track COMPLETELY out, the window still showed some significant binding going up....This lead me to reason that the BACK track is involved. Applied pure silicone spray to the entire BACK rubber track, all the way up to top of window frame. Window worked perfectly. This was still with front rubber track REMOVED. BTW, this didn't score or scratch the front glass at all. I then tried to figure out if I had a tilt problem or not and if "spacer fix" would help.

When I first got car, the window did jump out of the track about 6" up, but since lubricating front rubber and bending front track, never jumped out again, so I don't "think" I have a tilt problem?? :confused:

Now since it was binding when front rubber was completely OUT (and was not rubbing on the metal front track), I'm thinking I have a tilting issue where the glass is pressing too hard on the Back rubber channel, on the outer side of it. Just like "Bulldoggie's" drawing, except mine doesn't jump out of track any more.

When I reassembled it all, it worked perfectly, but I figure I'll have to keep re-lubricating it over time. I'd prefer permanent fix.

:_thinking~How frequently do you think I'll have to apply silicone spray?
:_thinking~Should I get SBC's brackets so I can move the window slightly forward??
:_thinking~Or apply the spacer fix to change the tilt?
:_thinking~Or try what Gussie2000 just mentioned yesterday, to cut some of the rubber off going down track? (Gussie2000, can you give me more details so I clearly understand what to do? Any future problem with water getting in anywhere?)

:_thinking2) Also, vapor barrier plastic completely gone. I see fix to get some 4 mil plastic to replace, but is it IMPORTANT to replace the barrier? Is CO2 the risk?

:_thinking3) Also, not clear on the nylon arm guides (white nylon tabs on the vertical regulator track). Are these what come loose, or have too much play? LittleBeast posted pics and labeled them "loose plastic tabs". Neither my white plastic tabs nor the tabs that actually hold onto the glass are broken...YET. I should get SBC's metal brackets before those current brackets holding glass break. But I don't think SBC's metal brackets involve the white nylon guide tabs at all..... What can be done about them:?: :_brickwal:

p.s....I haven't even TOUCHED passenger door yet....that window was worse than driver's side, so by the time I tackle that one, I should have all the answers I need from y'all:grinp:

[TheGanzman]

If it was ME, I'd contact Tim and set up an appointment to run down to Mesa. For a few extra fazooles, I'll bet he'd INSTALL his window tabs for ya' - and I'll wager that he knows a thing or two about VX power windows in general too. Let him "lay hands on it" and heal 'er up!;)

[Solitude]

even with the fix you should lubricate the windows quaterly,, the tracks are long and arduous and need a little lube to slide easy.. nothing lasts for ever

[etlsport]

ive been using graphite lubricant.. it seems to work well.. i also widened the window track just a pinch

[VX KAT]

Thanks. I assume you mean you widened the FRONT track? I've done that too, but am considering doing something like that to the rear track as well as it seems to be involved in binding my window (see above).

Wonder of I can use both silicone and graphite lubricant together??

[Gussie2000]

Thanks. I assume you mean you widened the FRONT track? I've done that too, but am considering doing something like that to the rear track as well as it seems to be involved in binding my window (see above).

Wonder of I can use both silicone and graphite lubricant together??

Hi kat. it seems that those windows are giving a hell of trouble.

Now,i'll be more explicit....

The weatherstrip rubber goes from the botton end of the front trail,goes up around the window's door & ends at the bottom end of the rear trail.

What i did was to remove about 16 or more inches of the rubber from the bottom end of each trail going up close to where the side mirrors base is located.

But before i did this proceed i first tried widening the trail about half of centimeter,It do improved rolling up the windows,however at half the way up the window will slow & tilt towards the front,so after figuring what was causing the window to slow & tilt i noticed that the side mirrors support was tightening the trail right there on both doors so i remove the side mirrors & also widening the trail;after that i tested rolling up & down the window & they went up all the way without any problem up to today.

You can also do another thing,which is to remove both weatherstrip rubbers from the doors & get rid of some of the inner black foam,the black foam dries after time & the lack of lubricant force the windows to slow/tilt.

I will also suggest you to become so sort of CSI & look up close to see if the trail needs to be twist to any direction in order to avoid the windows rubbing agains the trails it self if you decide to remove all the weatherstrip.

If they do then the trails are causing 60 to 75% of the problem

You need to be pacient & make time apart to do this,it takes times to have it done the right way.

However my fix might not apply to you 100%,but it worths giving a try though
If you believe that the white string is loose or the tabs are also loose or either broken & don't seems to be ok then follow your instincs.

I also noticed that the inner black foam i referred seems to works as absorbing sponge,which should remains lubricated,but for some unknown reason they dries up or they lose the ability to allow the windows to moves up/down.

I have no idea if there's any waterproof lubricant for this kind of situations.

And regarding the concern about if water goes in the answer is no,at the bottom of the door there's few holes that works as water drains so water don't remains inside the doors

I hope my input can be helpfull in any way




Gustavo

[Bieredalsace]

I Think if some of you look closely you'll see that the white Nylon(not Plastic) guides are worn causing the glass to tilt forward. Since everything was originally designed to go straight up and down, when the glass tilts forward it binds up. All this "cut off weather striping and rubber gasket" is unnecessary!. If you take off the inner door panel and watch those white Nylon tabs you will see what I mean. Operate the window from "down to up" position and you will see the glass pressing against the inner front of the nylon brackets and there is a space behind the glass and the inner "back" side of the bracket. If you then pull the window to stand up perfectly vertical the glass will now come in contact with the inner back of the bracket and there is a space in the inner front of the bracket,,caused by wear and tear. So obviously if the space was not there the window would be held in a perfectly strainght vertical position and the window slides perfectly with no binding.
I believe I have a very simple fix that is almost Free!. Get a nylon zip tie that is the width (Thickness of the glass) and insert it into the space on the inner front of the bracket to take up the "play". I figured this out conceptually a while ago but ill health and lousey weather prevented me from actually making the fix.
Maybe some one in the group with a garage or warmer weather could try this fix out and tell me if it works. It should!
God luck guys!

[VX KAT]

Thanks so much to both of you for all that detail, it's very clear. You know I widened my track & bent the bracket forward a bit, it only improved a bit. Even when I had my entire front rubber track removed, window still was binding, and that made me think BACK rubber track is causing some binding. When I applied the pure silicon spray everything worked perfectly, so may be I should just be happy with that. But based on past posts, those things holding the glass are goin' break and I need to get Tim's metal brackets before they do.

I'm going to take it apart again and check the white nylon guides and see what's going on with them, I haven't looked at them closely. My hubby and I just retired (early!) so we have lots of time thankfully to play and mess with this stuff...we're just not very handy, nor experienced. But I'm determined to fix these darn windows myself! And the passenger window hardly moves, so who knows what awaits me behind that door panel!??

Thanks again, your help is awesome!

[Bieredalsace]

I forgot to add this addendum:
"Disclaimer: The results above are not typical. Your results may vary depending upon exercise and diet:
IMHYLKIAOWIQVWA"

[Bieredalsace]

"Hmmm? What's behind door #2? I would suggest looking carefully at the guts for the window operating do-hickys before you do more surgery to the tracks and weather stripping. Start your various lubricating squirts down in there first! Good luck
PS: I know the problem with both doors was the same culprit.

[tom4bren]

Everyone seems to have a favorite fix for the window problem & I had a slightly unique issue that caused a more direct fix. My weather stripping had bunched up and tore on the driver's window. I just cut the torn section out and replaced with felt weather strip from the hardware store. It was a temporary fix that worked so well that I never went back to finishing the repair. There's a pic in my gallery.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/12158/ppuser/2699/sl/t

Tom

BTW, I got the brackets from SBC but still haven't installed them & can't remember the last time I lubricated the track. Being the procrastinator that I am, I still haven't fixed the passenger window.

[Gussie2000]

I Think if some of you look closely you'll see that the white Nylon(not Plastic) guides are worn causing the glass to tilt forward. Since everything was originally designed to go straight up and down, when the glass tilts forward it binds up. All this "cut off weather striping and rubber gasket" is unnecessary!. If you take off the inner door panel and watch those white Nylon tabs you will see what I mean. Operate the window from "down to up" position and you will see the glass pressing against the inner front of the nylon brackets and there is a space behind the glass and the inner "back" side of the bracket. If you then pull the window to stand up perfectly vertical the glass will now come in contact with the inner back of the bracket and there is a space in the inner front of the bracket,,caused by wear and tear. So obviously if the space was not there the window would be held in a perfectly strainght vertical position and the window slides perfectly with no binding.
I believe I have a very simple fix that is almost Free!. Get a nylon zip tie that is the width (Thickness of the glass) and insert it into the space on the inner front of the bracket to take up the "play". I figured this out conceptually a while ago but ill health and lousey weather prevented me from actually making the fix.
Maybe some one in the group with a garage or warmer weather could try this fix out and tell me if it works. It should!
God luck guys!

Unnecesary you wrote ?

I don't think that any step is unnecesary to achive a deffinitive fix for those windows.

Most of us had come up with many ways & ideas about how to fix the windows biding & is precisely that unlimited source of info that makes the board a great place.

Again,no step is unnecesary if it helps the windows issues.KAT ask me to more explicit about how i did it & her request was responded.
If you carefully read my input i also added that "MY FIX MAY NOT WORK 100% " in your case & following I wrote "I HOPE MY INPUT CAN BE HELPFULL"

[Bulldoggie]

Not wanting to start a new "fix" , I have to agree with the above steps.
IE; widening the front guide track.
"AND" I have to admit I did trim my front (lower) weatherstripping, cutting away the inner flaps, still leaving rubber between the glass and the guide. I don't think it is necessary, but I think it does help with the overall speed (less friction). My rubber was already damaged, so I had no trouble making this choice.
I also found it difficult to seat the rubber back into the guide after pulling it to widen the guide.
Mostly the flaps that go outside of the metal guide.
If those flaps are tucked inside the guide, it will add a LOT of resistance.

I am not recommending that everyone should go and trim their front weatherstripping.....

[VX KAT]

When I had the rubber strip out I did think maybe I could cut away some as it seemed to have more rubber on the side that faces outward, than inner, i.e. not symmetrical. Also that black foam at the bottom of rubber track was a gooey mess. I blotted it over and over again to get the visible goop off. Instead of cutting any rubber off, I just widened the heck out of the track a bit more. But now I've got to check on something Gussie2000 mentioned...my front track may be twisted and maybe I didn't notice or appreciate how that would still be causing friction on the glass. I made the metal track wider, but I may have caused some twisting of it when I was trying to move the bracket forward. Gussie, my black foam wasn't "DRY" at all, it was very gooey....can I cut it off?...or is that providing relubrication to the glass? I applied the silicone spray to the rubber while I had it out and horizontal & I let it sit for a few minutes, but with all the silicone I applied I'm sure some of it ended up running down into this foam.

I started to "assess" the passenger door today....I have a feeling the entire rubber strip is missing. Without taking off the door panel, just looking at it I see there's NO vertical rubber visible at all in that 6" from top of door up to A pillar (the part next to the mirror). We have a horrendous wind noise coming from this general area, but can't feel any air blowing anywhere. Once I realized the rubber track is missing I was sure that was going to be the cause...not sure yet. We don't smoke but I've got to get something lit and see if the smoke can help me pinpoint where this air noise is coming from.

Went to a custom place today to look at putting some fog lights on my great new bull bar (thank you Tone!) We definitely can't do any wiring stuff ourself, so the local place I've dealt with is really reasonable. I can get some Hella Halogens & installation for $155. We live about a mile back on a dirt road in a small town, so I need some more light! Hubby has some big Hellas on his FJ Cruiser, now it's ZooZoo's turn!

[Gussie2000]

When I had the rubber strip out I did think maybe I could cut away some as it seemed to have more rubber on the side that faces outward, than inner, i.e. not symmetrical. Also that black foam at the bottom of rubber track was a gooey mess. I blotted it over and over again to get the visible goop off. Instead of cutting any rubber off, I just widened the heck out of the track a bit more. But now I've got to check on something Gussie2000 mentioned...my front track may be twisted and maybe I didn't notice or appreciate how that would still be causing friction on the glass. I made the metal track wider, but I may have caused some twisting of it when I was trying to move the bracket forward. Gussie, my black foam wasn't "DRY" at all, it was very gooey....can I cut it off?...or is that providing relubrication to the glass? I applied the silicone spray to the rubber while I had it out and horizontal & I let it sit for a few minutes, but with all the silicone I applied I'm sure some of it ended up running down into this foam.

I started to "assess" the passenger door today....I have a feeling the entire rubber strip is missing. Without taking off the door panel, just looking at it I see there's NO vertical rubber visible at all in that 6" from top of door up to A pillar (the part next to the mirror). We have a horrendous wind noise coming from this general area, but can't feel any air blowing anywhere. Once I realized the rubber track is missing I was sure that was going to be the cause...not sure yet. We don't smoke but I've got to get something lit and see if the smoke can help me pinpoint where this air noise is coming from.

Went to a custom place today to look at putting some fog lights on my great new bull bar (thank you Tone!) We definitely can't do any wiring stuff ourself, so the local place I've dealt with is really reasonable. I can get some Hella Halogens & installation for $155. We live about a mile back on a dirt road in a small town, so I need some more light! Hubby has some big Hellas on his FJ Cruiser, now it's ZooZoo's turn!

Hi KAT !

1rst of all did you removed the weather rubber completly ?

If you do removed the rubbers then give try & see if the window rubbs agains the trail without the rubber.

If the window do tilt or slow try to figured out at which point of the trail the window fails to keep rolling & work focused on that very spot.

If the weather rubber is fine then there's no needs to remove bit of the black foam;Yes the foam should be lubricated at all times,that helps the windows goes up/down

With all the winter here in NYC i haven't roll my windows for weeks & today i remember you by rolling both windows,again had no problem with them,they works perfectly

[VX KAT]

I removed the driver's rubber weather stripping completely to clean the old lubricants and gunk. I ran window up/down when NO rubber and it worked ok until midway, it was binding (with NO rubber strip on!). So that's why I thought my BACK/REAR track may be causing some binding, but with flashlight I just couldn't see where. I put the rubber track back in and right now, it's perfect with silicone spray. Up/down very fast. Passenger side looks like previous owner may have removed entire rubber strip....will be checking it out soon.

[Bieredalsace]

Unnecesary you wrote ?

I don't think that any step is unnecesary to achive a deffinitive fix for those windows.

Most of us had come up with many ways & ideas about how to fix the windows biding & is precisely that unlimited source of info that makes the board a great place.

Again,no step is unnecesary if it helps the windows issues.KAT ask me to more explicit about how i did it & her request was responded.
If you carefully read my input i also added that "MY FIX MAY NOT WORK 100% " in your case & following I wrote "I HOPE MY INPUT CAN BE HELPFULL"
With all due respect to any of you who have achieved some success with performing surgery on the rubber and weather stripping, Yes if those areas are damage then it would be Necessary to go in there and remove the damaged materials. If it worked for you, Great.
When I try to fix something I start from the original manufacturers starting point as built. So i try and see how it was supposed to be Before we started having problems. If the windows were consistently causing binding problems I'm sure Isuzu would have made a fix before they left the assembly line just like they did with the terrible '99 engine problems.
If you were replacing the body side cladding and the holes didn't match up you could "fix' it by drilling new holes. But that isn't the way it was supposed to be. So that's why I said all the cutting and chopping were "unnecessary" IF it can be done correctly.
But for anyone in a pinch I guess any "fix" is better than driving around in inclement weather with the windows jammed in the down position.

[tom4bren]

I think this thread is a better place for this topic than in my 'window fixin party' thread since it was mentioned here.

Two of the doors we worked on had no vapor barrier (VB). Those got the trash bag/duct tape treatment.

One of the doors we worked on had the VB still in place but it was completely covered with moisture.

If you have any doubts about the effectiveness of that VB or the importance of it, it works & it's needed.

While replacing speakers on Wifey's car last fall, the driver's door VB was torn & the OEM speaker was completely covered in mold.

It'll only take you 10 minutes to replace the VB if you already have the door panel removed. Do it.

[JAMAS]

When I removed my door panels to work on the windows, the VB was rather brittle and torn in some areas. I replaced it with plastic that I found at Lowes. Its pretty strong stuff, but to make sure it never ripped, I put duct tape on all 4 sides of any hole that I had to cut for door handles, cables, etc.

While I was in between stages on the window fix, I decided to give the VX a good washing. You would be surprised how much moisture gets through when there is no vapor barrier. I also had the door panels off so water got further, but I can only imagine how bad it would get with water getting in and getting humid.

[VX KAT]

:_thinking2) Also, vapor barrier plastic completely gone. I see fix to get some 4 mil plastic to replace, but is it IMPORTANT to replace the barrier? Is Carbon monoxide or CO2 a risk?

:grinp:

Thanks Tom for mentioning the vapor barrier....I had posed a question about it at the beginning of this thread. Mine are both completely gone, now I think I should put some plastic up. Think moisture damage/mold is the only down side to not having them?

[TheGanzman]

For the record, I bought a set from Merlin recently - they're ~$4.00 apiece...

[tom4bren]

Yes, I believe that it is only a moisture issue. Since it is not a complete seal (holes for levers & wires & such) it is not intended to be a hermetic seal to keep out any gasses such as CO or CO2. Those are taken care of in the basic design of the car (i.e., the exhaust is at the rear where it is directed away from the passenger cabin by the air flow around the car). That's why safety inspections are typically very critical of after market exhausts, particularly side exhausts.

I can't remember who mentioned it earlier in your thread but there are indeed holes at the bottom of the door to let water flow out. There's no way that you'll ever be able to keep water out so the best approach is to let any accumulated water out. If the VB is missing, moisture can damage the door panel, speakers & wires. If those holes ever get clogged, enough water can accumulate in the door to actually slosh around and spill into the cabin (sounds silly but it actually happened on my TLC). As JAMAS mentioned, a lot more water goes through that door than you would ever expect.

[SomeBeach]

I have been reading all the window fix forums and am a little confused because I have never had the door panel off. On my driver door I have to pull the front of the glass up when closing the window (tilts forward). So with all the suggestions for window repair can you tell m what is the first thing I should try to correct my problem?

[Ldub]

I have been reading all the window fix forums and am a little confused because I have never had the door panel off. On my driver door I have to pull the front of the glass up when closing the window (tilts forward). So with all the suggestions for window repair can you tell m what is the first thing I should try to correct my problem?

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=11541&highlight=window+tilt

[SomeBeach]

I opened that site but didn't see anything on window repair. Reckon I'll just open it up and see if I can figure it out.

[Ldub]

I opened that site but didn't see anything on window repair. Reckon I'll just open it up and see if I can figure it out.

I'm sorry Dude...:flower:

I must've been in a hurry & clicked on the wrong thread...:mbrasd:

Here's what I meant to post, I'll fix it in my other post ...

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=11541&highlight=window+tilt

[tom4bren]

"what is the first thing I should try to correct my problem?"

UUMMM - invent a time machine & go back 2 weekends so that you can attend my window fixin party.

I have an extra bracket (don't ask) if you only need to fix one window.

[TheGanzman]

My driver's window was doing the "tilt" thang too. After taking the door panel off, we noticed that the plastic window tabs were both intact, so we left THAT part of it alone, though I had the improved brackets "in hand". We solved the problem just by pushing the window ALL the way forward adjustment-wise; it now works PERFECTLY, and moves faster than a guillotine! I'd try THAT before I did ANYTHING, assuming your attachment tabs are still intact - just my 25 cents...

[tom4bren]

Here's another fix that I found on Joe Black's site.

http://www.antiquecaterpillar.org/vx/Technical/Window_Bert.asp

[crager34]

My fix included:

SBC Tabs
New Rubber all the way around from Merlin
New window guts except for the motor
Previous owner widened the front track just a bit.


Mine work fine.

[SomeBeach]

"what is the first thing I should try to correct my problem?"

UUMMM - invent a time machine & go back 2 weekends so that you can attend my window fixin party.

I have an extra bracket (don't ask) if you only need to fix one window.

Hey Tom
I wish I had gone to that window fixin party but hd been sick and didn't feel like the drive. I hope to be at the next party you have

[tom4bren]

Understandable. Lemme know if there is any way I can be of help.

[CSTYLES]

I want to take this chance to thank Tom 4 putting together the meet and fixin' party.

I was hesitant to put the windows down, since I've had mine "repaired" before with little effect, so I waited almost a week. My driver side goes up and down with no problem. The passenger side was zipping out somewhere mid track. I noticed when Tom had the door apart that the center runner was hopping the track.

Well, I finally got in there again yesterday and used the old washers trick (don't know who to credit for this fix). I slipped a couple washers between the brackets and the actuator (I believe this is what they are called?) and it pushed whole set-up inward. This might be putting more pressure on the glass, but mine were never binding really. I keep my tracks generously lubed. The passenger side now goes straight up and down, no wiggle either way.

[tom4bren]

My window fix ... didn't. I'll have to try this.

[twistedsymphony]

I Think if some of you look closely you'll see that the white Nylon(not Plastic) guides are worn causing the glass to tilt forward. Since everything was originally designed to go straight up and down, when the glass tilts forward it binds up. All this "cut off weather striping and rubber gasket" is unnecessary!. If you take off the inner door panel and watch those white Nylon tabs you will see what I mean. Operate the window from "down to up" position and you will see the glass pressing against the inner front of the nylon brackets and there is a space behind the glass and the inner "back" side of the bracket. If you then pull the window to stand up perfectly vertical the glass will now come in contact with the inner back of the bracket and there is a space in the inner front of the bracket,,caused by wear and tear. So obviously if the space was not there the window would be held in a perfectly strainght vertical position and the window slides perfectly with no binding.
I believe I have a very simple fix that is almost Free!. Get a nylon zip tie that is the width (Thickness of the glass) and insert it into the space on the inner front of the bracket to take up the "play". I figured this out conceptually a while ago but ill health and lousey weather prevented me from actually making the fix.
Maybe some one in the group with a garage or warmer weather could try this fix out and tell me if it works. It should!
God luck guys!

my passenger's side window has always worked flawlessly, the drivers side has always been a little slow to go up and tiled forward, and more recently it will stop dead half way up unless I grab it and tilt it back.

I widened and lubricated the front track and it only improved it ever so slightly but nothing worth a damn.

I noticed the same thing as above... I think it has nothing to do with the front and rear rubber tracks and everything to do with the center guide...

I can push DOWN on the top of the window near the back and the window will roll up flawless every time... as long as you can prevent it from tilting you can have a window that goes up and down properly.

easing the pressure on the front track only treats the symptom... the cause is the fact that window is allowed to tilt at all.

looking at my well working passenger's side window the guides are snug against the center track... on my drivers side the front guide is warn down a fair amount.

the window motor puts more pressure up on the back than it does in the front which will naturally make the window want to tilt forward, the center track is what keeps it from tilting, the front and rear rubber guides are just to protect and seal the window away from the metal in the door... when the center guide isn't working they exacerbate the problem but I don't think they're the root cause.

I'm going to try the zip tie method sometime this week and see if it works.

[blujfan9293]

not a fix, but a peripheral band-aid--I bought weather tec rain/wind guards from JC Whitney that pop in/out-bonus is if window doesn't go all the way up while driving (new Proton needs a fix) i can leave it cracked til I can do the 2 handed fix at a stop.

plus they look sharp and I can crack the windows in park so it doesn't bake inside.