Has anyone DONE the axiom engine swap?

[ilya]

Hi, new to the forum, and am looking to buy a VX in the near future. My question is this. I have seen all posts relevant to the axiom engine swap but has anyone actually done the work, taken the pics, shared their experience? A wire harness, ecu and engine swap isnt all that hard as long as there is at least one example of it done correctly. Thanks

[Knigh7s]

As far as I know, No.

As for the reasons why, I'll let a veteran chime in...

And welcome to the forums!!! :eek:

[kodiak]

Not that I know of. I am interested in the 04 Axiom direct injection 3.5, that’s a cool engine. I know the ECU and fuel pump is different but I don’t know how easy it would be to transplant.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

I think about this swap from time to time in the advent of my engine ever expiring.

I think about it because I often wonder about if I could still use my Supercharger (fuel injectors are relocated on direct injection from intake manifold location to cylinder location hence "directly injecting") and how the drive-by-wire throttle control system could benefit a S/C equipped VX by eliminating the now "overly-long" O.E.M. throttle cable.

I believe that in the case of the S/C...plugging the injector holes in the intake and somehow either relocating our fuel-rail or making use of stock fuel-rail would be the big hurdle.

If my engine ever expires, I'll definately be looking long & hard at this swap as well as scouring the boneyards for any '04 Axioms w/good powerplants!

[Ldub]

I think about this swap from time to time in the advent of my engine ever expiring.

I think about it because I often wonder about if I could still use my Supercharger (fuel injectors are relocated on direct injection from intake manifold location to cylinder location hence "directly injecting") and how the drive-by-wire throttle control system could benefit a S/C equipped VX by eliminating the now "overly-long" O.E.M. throttle cable.

I believe that in the case of the S/C...plugging the injector holes in the intake and somehow either relocating our fuel-rail or making use of stock fuel-rail would be the big hurdle.

If my engine ever expires, I'll definately be looking long & hard at this swap as well as scouring the boneyards for any '04 Axioms w/good powerplants!

Having never seen the 3.5 DI motor with the top off, I would also wonder if the intake ports would be the same?
I would ASSUME that they used the same block...:confused:

[vt_maverick]

I thought direct injection was supposed to increase power and allow for better fuel economy, but I checked on edmunds and the Axiom gets 13/17!!!

[etlsport]

autotrader.com research and compare puts the 2004 axiom at 18/23 for a 2wd and 17/21 for a 4wd.. weight is comparable to the vx (just a touch over 4000)

they have the 2002 listed at 16/20 (4wd).. and 17/21 (2wd).. 230 hp (still 15 over the vx) but about 100 lbs less weight

[Gussie2000]

I believe that the swap is completly possible & shouldn't be that hard to set it up.

The ECU software should be easy to set guys,same applies to the direct fuel injection;Think about it & you'll find that isn't that difficult.

The engine's size is the same,the TOD is the same,just bit powerfull which is great.

I have no doubts that the swap is possible.

[VX1032]

Actually, it I remember correctly, trans is different, it is an aisin instead of the 4l30E.

Also, Jerry on the planet always said you don't want a DI engine because they had A LOT of mechanical issues with them. Although I would like the extra power.

[uncle_asa]

I remember someone had DI engine swapped by the dealer on warranty. There were few pics in the past.

[iamironman]

I'm not saying more than this till mine is done...
I bought the engine out of a wrecked 02 Axiom for $500, engine runs perfectly.
I am saving up now for the R&R labor... extras... etc...

ANY engine from an 02 Axiom with 8th digit in vin 'X' whole year will work...
ANY engine from 03 Axiom with 8th digit in vin 'X' up to May 03 will work... Same tranny as VX in both till May 03
The mechanic says Might have to use the stock VX intake etc... for the stock VX ECU to work with engine... I have dibs to try the wreaked Axioms ECU if stock VX ECU doesn't work on Axiom intake, but won't find out till I have the $$ for the R&R...

I am going to try and get it done by May and bring it to Moab...

I will take pics and keep the forum posted to progress as I get this done...

BTW, I don't care about the mpg... I just want the HP!!




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[etlsport]

I'm not saying more than this till mine is done...
I bought the engine out of a wrecked 02 Axiom for $500, engine runs perfectly.
I am saving up now for the R&R labor... extras... etc...

ANY engine from an 02 Axiom with 8th digit in vin 'X' whole year will work...
ANY engine from 03 Axiom with 8th digit in vin 'X' up to May 03 will work... Same tranny as VX in both till May 03
The mechanic says Might have to use the stock VX intake etc... for the stock VX ECU to work with engine... I have dibs to try the wreaked Axioms ECU if stock VX ECU doesn't work on Axiom intake, but won't find out till I have the $$ for the R&R...

I am going to try and get it done by May and bring it to Moab...

I will take pics and keep the forum posted to progress as I get this done...

BTW, I don't care about the mpg... I just want the HP!!




_______________________


i could have sworn the 02 and 03 axiom had the exact same engine as the VX.. and that only the 04 was DI.. i havent done much research on the subject though

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

i could have sworn the 02 and 03 axiom had the exact same engine as the VX.. and that only the 04 was DI.. i havent done much research on the subject though


Yup...the 02 and 03 have a better flowing intake giving them 15 hp more than stock VX and ONLY the 04 was DI.

[TheGanzman]

i could have sworn the 02 and 03 axiom had the exact same engine as the VX.. and that only the 04 was DI.. i havent done much research on the subject though

I BELIEVE that the piston/ring "issue" was fixed on these engines as well, so excessive oil consumption is not SUPPOSED to be a problem on these...

[iamironman]

Yup...the 02 and 03 have a better flowing intake giving them 15 hp more than stock VX and ONLY the 04 was DI.

CORRECT!!
Since the intake IS different (TB is diff too) is why the concern if the VX ECU and wiring harness will work with the 02 Axiom engine... In my case it won't matter, I will have either ECU and WH available... My mechanic says he WILL get one combo or another to work...


I BELIEVE that the piston/ring "issue" was fixed on these engines as well, so excessive oil consumption is not SUPPOSED to be a problem on these...

DOUBLE CORRECT!!
I will still check the oil RELIGIOUSLY, but I hope to never, ever, have to live in mortal fear of blowing an engine again!!


Actually, it I remember correctly, trans is different, it is an aisin instead of the 4l30E.

This should answer any concerns on the tranny... it is the same, look here and do the search on a 2002 Axiom, Transmission. Several listed have the 4L30E # for the tranny (make sure you pick the 4x4 option, on second page).

oops edit... forgot the link... lol

http://www.car-part.com/




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[taylorRichie]

Interesting...

There's a
2004
Engine
Isuzu Rodeo 24k comp 160-180 24,000 RR7141 $1800 Crabtree Auto USA-UT(Ogden)

Near my house... low miles good price... Is that the same engine as the 2004 axiom? It came up on the search.

[Gussie2000]

I'm not saying more than this till mine is done...
I bought the engine out of a wrecked 02 Axiom for $500, engine runs perfectly.
I am saving up now for the R&R labor... extras... etc...

ANY engine from an 02 Axiom with 8th digit in vin 'X' whole year will work...
ANY engine from 03 Axiom with 8th digit in vin 'X' up to May 03 will work... Same tranny as VX in both till May 03
The mechanic says Might have to use the stock VX intake etc... for the stock VX ECU to work with engine... I have dibs to try the wreaked Axioms ECU if stock VX ECU doesn't work on Axiom intake, but won't find out till I have the $$ for the R&R...

I am going to try and get it done by May and bring it to Moab...

I will take pics and keep the forum posted to progress as I get this done...

BTW, I don't care about the mpg... I just want the HP!!




_______________________

I have not doubts that the swap is completly possible.If i had spare $$$$

i'll not hesitate swapping the engine right away. keep us posted iron :)

[iamironman]

Interesting...

There's a
2004
Engine
Isuzu Rodeo 24k comp 160-180 24,000 RR7141 $1800 Crabtree Auto USA-UT(Ogden)

Near my house... low miles good price... Is that the same engine as the 2004 axiom? It came up on the search.

I'd be careful... I've heard of some that had a 3.5L as an option.
This from http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/1998-to-2004-isuzu-rodeo-4.htm
"Depending on the model, a Rodeo could have a mild-mannered 4-cylinder engine with 5-speed manual shift, or a 205-horsepower 3.2-liter V6 with either the manual gearbox or a 4-speed automatic transmission. A 4-speed automatic transmission became available with the 2.2-liter I4 in 2001. New for 2004 is a 3.5 liter 250-hp V6 engine, which replaces Rodeo's 4-cylinder. "

I've done a lot of research on this.. the Rodeo 3.2L engine has a designation 6VD1(L). While the VX 99-01, Trooper 98-03, and Axiom 02-03, ALL had the designation 6VE1. I can't find the designation on the 3.5L DI engine that was offered only in the 04 Axiom or 04 Rodeo. It won't be the same as the VX/Trooper/Axiom's 6VE1. And the 04 Rodeo had a different upgraded engine like the 04 Axiom had/was upgraded with the DI, so it is not the same 6VE1, I'd call that place in Ogden and ask what that engine's designation # is.

If it's the 250HP V6, it won't fit/bolt right in the VX... different trans (aisin I think)and also ask what the VIN is on the engine... it has to have the 8th digit 'X' to fit the VX for sure.

So, just to recap... ANY 3.5L engine with designation 6VE1 AND the VIN's 8th digit is 'X' will fit/bolt right in our BELOVED VXes, the only problem MIGHT be the Intake/TB/ECU on the 230HP version from the 02-03 Axiom, which I will be finding THAT out in the next month or two when I do mine.

I hope this helps all. :)

:confused: :)

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[iamironman]

Oh yeah...

The 02-03 Axiom (up to May 03) had the 230HP 3.5L V6... The 04 and after May 03 had the 250HP 3.5L DI V6, the difference of course being the DI, that would mean totally different intake, TB, injectors, ECU and wiring harness, and transmission.





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[deermagnet]

Here's the possible configurations for a '04 Rodeo-
http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/vx/vx/04rodeo.gif

A search on the Crabtree site of the two possible Rodeo engines shows no 3.2L for a '04 Rodeo in stock. It does show they have two 3.5L engines from a '04 Rodeo, so I suppose the 3.5L engines they have are the DI versions.

Mark Griffin

[deermagnet]

I have the time and materials so I did some research on the Axiom engine swap.

The '02 Axiom engine is a drive-by-wire system. The gas pedal assembly would need to be changed over to the Axiom version. It has an Aisin throttle body which is very different from the VX. The VX PCM uses the Idle Air Control Valve on the TB to control idle. The Axiom does not have this valve. It seems like the Axiom PCM has to be used to run this engine.

The two PCM's are extremely different. The Axiom PCM is located under the hood. The VX PCM is under the stock CD player. If the Axiom PCM goes under the hood of a VX, the VX tranny and TOD wires need to be extended to go thru the firewall. If the Axiom PCM goes in the VX cab, all the engine harnesses have to be extended to go thru the firewall. That's if the VX tranny and TOD control unit could be connected to the Axiom PCM. The plug connections could not be more different. The VX PCM uses three 32-way connectors. The Axiom PCM uses two 80-way connectors.

The Axiom tranny to PCM-
http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/vx/vx/axtranspcm.gif

The VX tranny to PCM-
http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/vx/vx/vxtranspcm.gif

Isuzu has been using the same 4L30-E designation for this tranny since the early 90's. For all the major changes and tweeks this tranny has had over the years to be compatible with the specific vehicles it's used in all over the world by different auto makers, it still gets the same 4L30-E name. Even the '02 Axiom 4X4 has a different 4L30-E version than the '02 Axiom 4X2. I can't imagine the VX tranny having all the same components and the same exact electronic controls as the '02 Axiom version. The manuals refer to it as the "1999 4L30-E Transmission" and the "2002 4L30-E Transmission". Even if the tranny and TOD control unit are exactly the same, how are they going to get wired to the Axiom PCM?

To be on the safe side, you would need the Axiom engine, PCM, tranny, TOD control unit, and gas pedal assembly, preferably all from the same vehicle. Then the tranny would have to mate with our transfer case and the whole engine, tranny, TOD, and ABS system would have to talk to each other and work perfectly when it's done. After all the money and labor involved in all that, and if it doesn't work right and the problems can't be corrected, then what?

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I just want a mechanic to have this info before starting this job. I truely hope it can be done. That would be a one of a kind VX admired around the world. Even Isuzu engineers would tip their cap to such a successful project.

Mark Griffin

[iamironman]

I have the time and materials so I did some research on the Axiom engine swap.

The '02 Axiom engine is a drive-by-wire system. The gas pedal assembly would need to be changed over to the Axiom version. It has an Aisin throttle body which is very different from the VX. The VX PCM uses the Idle Air Control Valve on the TB to control idle. The Axiom does not have this valve. It seems like the Axiom PCM has to be used to run this engine.

The two PCM's are extremely different. The Axiom PCM is located under the hood. The VX PCM is under the stock CD player. If the Axiom PCM goes under the hood of a VX, the VX tranny and TOD wires need to be extended to go thru the fire wall. If the Axiom PCM goes in the VX cab, all the engine harnesses have to be extended to go thru the fire wall. That's if the VX tranny and TOD control unit could be connected to the Axiom PCM. The plug connections could not be more different. The VX PCM uses three 32-way connectors. The Axiom PCM uses two 80-way connectors.

Isuzu has been using the same 4L30-E designation for this tranny since the early 90's. For all the major changes and tweeks this tranny has had over the years to be compatible with the specific vehicles it's used in all over the world by different auto makers, it still gets the same 4L30-E name. Even the '02 Axiom 4X4 has a different 4L30-E version than the '02 Axiom 4X2. I can't imagine the VX tranny having all the same components and the same exact electronic controls as the '02 Axiom version. The manuals refer to it as the "1999 4L30-E Transmission" and the "2002 4L30-E Transmission". Even if the tranny and TOD control unit are exactly the same, how are they going to get wired to the Axiom PCM?

To be on the safe side, you would need the Axiom engine, PCM, tranny, TOD control unit, and gas pedal assembly, preferably all from the same vehicle. Then the tranny would have to mate with our transfer case and the whole engine, tranny, TOD, and ABS system would have to talk to each other and work perfectly when it's done. After all the money and labor involved in all that, and if it doesn't work right and the problems can't be corrected, then what?

If we were back in the 60's when the engine, tranny, and 4X4 were not 100% electronically controlled, it would be much simpler. The electronics end is what makes this a potential nightmare.

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I just want a mechanic to have this info before starting this job. I truely hope it can be done. That would be a one of a kind VX admired around the world. Even Isuzu engineers would tip their cap to such a successful project.

Mark Griffin

Deermagnet, no offense, but did you not read my posts... basically I said all this (with less detail)... different intake, diff TB, diff ECU/PCM, diff wireharness... although this does shed some light on the fact that I probably won't even waste time on using the Axiom intake/TB etc... I'll just stick with the VX intake/TB/ECU/wireharness... As far as the tranny... The Axiom engine will bolt right up to the VX, same tranny... I already measured bolt pattern... AND, since I still have my blown engine from back in July when I first bought my VX and the engine spun a bearing a few weeks after... the engine I replaced THAT with came from a 99 trooper... and it's sitting right next to my new Axiom engine, everything on both engines is identical except intake and TB... it'll bolt right up to the VX. This will be a one-of VX... and I hope it'll help current and future generations of VXer's God forbid should their engines ever blow...




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[deermagnet]

OK, that sounds great and I know you're very determined to get this done. I hope that engine will run on the VX PCM with the drive-by-wire converted to the VX cable throttle set-up. Getting the new engine wiring hooked up to the existing connections that run into the cab when it's designed to connect to a totally different PCM under the hood will be a challenge. For the tranny, I'm sure either engine will bolt up to either tranny. I'm just saying the Axiom tranny may have different components and internal electronic controls, so the Axiom tranny may need the Axiom PCM, and the VX tranny may need the VX PCM. If you're using the VX PCM the tranny and TOD are not an issue. It's just a matter of getting the new engine hooked up and running on the VX PCM. I hope it all goes well.

iamironman, my previous response was not solely directed at you, but also a general response to the whole concept of the Axiom engine swap questioned in the first post of this thread.

Mark

[kodiak]

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/IMGP3480.jpg

Why don’t you just put in one of the coolest L6s ever made? The 1965 Pontiac OHC L6 designed by John DeLorean him self. It would probably be easier.;)

[Ldub]

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/IMGP3480.jpg

Why don’t you just put in one of the coolest L6s ever made? The 1965 Pontiac OHC L6 designed by John DeLorean him self. It would probably be easier.;)

LOL...the air filter is generally capable of filtering down to 1/4" (bug size) microns...:smilewink