CB Radio?

[dtruax]

just thinking about a cb radio with a PA speaker mod for thee vx . Since i dont ever use the stock 6-disc cd changer i could take that out and put the cb radio in place of it. has anyone ever done this? if so, what fits there? i was looking at this
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7962813&st=cb+radio&lp=2&type=product&cp=1&id=1153337217438 but i dont know if it will fit. also about mounting an intenna it would be cool to mount an intenna to the tailgate. is there mounting kits to get or what?? how much would this all cost?? thanks in advance!

[Ascinder]

Instead of that radio, I'd get this one:

http://www.cobra.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=419&category_ID=30

Here's a cheap place for it:

http://store.buyreliant.com/servlet/-strse-2975/29LTDBT,Cobra,CB-Radios,BlueTooth,Specifications,Manuals,SWR,CB-Radios,Cobra-C29LTDBT,Mobile/Detail

For a little bit more you get Bluetooth and something that blends in with your dash a bit more. I know several people have mounted their antennas to the rear door. Try PMing pbkid and MShardeman, I think they did theirs that way. I think it was a pretty straightforward install. It is especially important to learn to calibrate your SWR setting so you don't burn these radios out too, so pay attention to that part of the manual. Also, it is extremely unlikely it will fit in the slot without some dremel work. CB radios are typically longer by an inch or two and just a tad wider than head units. They also aren't designed to be used in that application. I have seen install kits to make them work though. They just tend to stick out a bit.

[pbkid]

just thinking about a cb radio with a PA speaker mod for thee vx . Since i dont ever use the stock 6-disc cd changer i could take that out and put the cb radio in place of it. has anyone ever done this? if so, what fits there? i was looking at this
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7962813&st=cb+radio&lp=2&type=product&cp=1&id=1153337217438 but i dont know if it will fit. also about mounting an intenna it would be cool to mount an intenna to the tailgate. is there mounting kits to get or what?? how much would this all cost?? thanks in advance!

ya i mounted mine to the rear door....

+ is that it looks good and is out of the way....
- is that you cant get it very tall because it will hit all types of things..
- i mounted mine to the cladding which eventually crunched in a little and now looks a little funny...

i plan on re-doing mine, maybe before moab if i get ambitious...without a roof rack the rear door is a great spot...easy to get to and mounts easily...

however, if you plan on doing a roof basket then i suggest to mount it up there with a swivel mount, thats what im changing mine to...something like this on the roof, that way you can have it straight up for awesome range and reception or turn it parallel to the roof when driving around the city...
http://www.wearecb.com/store/firestik-wsb4a-screw-on-widget-swivel-bracket-mount-p-322.html

oh, and i did this CB because it was smaller and would fit where i want it...
http://www.cobra.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=232&category_ID=30

i looks like a childs toy, but it actually works really well and is very easy to use....it also both small in width, but depth too...

my suggestion is to get a marine PA speaker, dont use the cobra one...it sucks lol, i used to have one and you couldnt hear it AT ALL over my exhaust...

just my 2 cents....

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

just thinking about a cb radio with a PA speaker mod for thee vx . Since i dont ever use the stock 6-disc cd changer i could take that out and put the cb radio in place of it. has anyone ever done this? if so, what fits there? i was looking at this
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7962813&st=cb+radio&lp=2&type=product&cp=1&id=1153337217438 but i dont know if it will fit. also about mounting an intenna it would be cool to mount an intenna to the tailgate. is there mounting kits to get or what?? how much would this all cost?? thanks in advance!


This is the particular radio I have mounted in the stock cd player location.

http://www.cobra.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=313&category_ID=30

I purchased mine at a local truck stop (Pilot) for like $60. It fits perfectly in that location and I used the OEM cd player mounts (aluminum) to mount the CB.

As far as antenna, I personally use the FireStik 4ft (also from Pilot) for like $24.

http://www.firestik.com/CatalogFrame.htm

I mounted mine to the rear door using a side body mount that grounds to the body ($6 from Pilot). If you mount it like PBKid to the cladding the mount will rest flat. If you mount it higher up on the rear door as I did you will have to shim the mount with some sort of triangular piece to take the angle out as the antenna will want to lean forward due to angle in sheet metal around half-moon area of door. (In the above FireStik link, click on "molded side mount" and then in article...click on blue "show me the mount".)

see my gallery for some pics as far as ideas for antenna placement & radio installation.

Others here use mostly magnetic mount roof-top antenna's.

Hope this helps!

[dtruax]

question,the cobra model that jolly roger mentioned, can that be used as a PA system too? thanks

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

question,the cobra model that jolly roger mentioned, can that be used as a PA system too? thanks


Unfortunately, it lacks that feature. On the plus, it has a front speaker ideal for dash mounting. But, here are the size specs so perhaps you can pick out a radio the exact same size with desired PA feature.

Length: 7.0
Width: 6.5
Height: 1.88

***Also, Cobra makes a CB where all the controls are in the hand mike and the "radio" mounts under the seat....Scott aka Moncha and some others have that setup in their VX.

[dtruax]

oh thanks for the size specs. by the way ur antenna set up looks great jolly roger

[dtruax]

too bad this doesnt fit:http://www.walcottcb.com/cobra-29ltdchr-chrome-cb-radio-p-1059.html?cPath=340_377_383
is there any way to make that fit?

[VX KAT]

I'm getting the hand held Cobra 75 ST VX that a couple others have (Triathlete, etlsport, tomdietrying, marlin and some others). It'll be easier for me to handle and operate with my left hand than the other one I have.

Needs input on the antenna part of this set up:

1) I got a 3ft FireStik antenna. Is it OK to mount it to the actual Yakima rack somehow? What specific mount would I use? Marlin your pics show a mount on your roofrack.

2) My Firestik fits and will screw into the magnetic mount from my existing Cobra Road Trip hand held...however it has too much wind resistance and tips over, but couldn't I put the magnetic base & antenna in between the Yakima or OEM bars, up against a cross member for support, and tape the magnetic base to the roof for extra support? Does that screw up reception?

3) What about this mount? Can it go on a vertical edge of rear door? Left or right side?
http://www.wearecb.com/store/firestik-wsb4a-screw-on-widget-swivel-bracket-mount-p-322.html

Where to put the little box? I can have my stereo shop guys wire it for me.

1) Tomdietrying...I really like where Jay hooked your jack into the small ashtray behind console. Was it this same little "box" that comes with the Cobra 75? http://www.rightchannelradios.com/bmz_cache/2/22b2fdaec51b964d1396e8c31ce4ba10.image.700x466.jpg

2) Billy you said you mounted yours under the drivers seat.

And, I don't have a SWR meter (and probably wouldn't know what to do with it even if I did :rollo:) so my Firestik still needs tuned. Anybody have a meter I can borrow? A new one is $45! ouch! The stero shop knows how to do it but don't have the meter as it's not part of their normal work.
Jack would BestBuy have one for their installations? If so, I'd buy the CB from them & have them install it and tune my Firestik at same time.

[MSHardeman]

Sue,

Can't help you out with any of the CB stuff, as I have a different make and model, but here is how I mounted my antenna to the rear of my roof basket:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/VX_CB_Install_10.JPG

As you can see, I zip tied the wire to the cross bar of the basket to get it over to the latch side of the rear door, then I just ran it inside. The door seal squeezes the wire but doesn't crimp it. After the wire was inside, I ran it down the weather stripping, then drilled a small hole in the interior panel and ran the wire forward behind the interior panels, and under the carpet, to where I have my unit (huh, huh...I said unit) mounted to the side of the transmission tunnel.
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/VX_CB_Install_08.JPG

With the antenna back there it makes the VX look like a big RC.
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/ROM_20.JPG

My CB came with a meter, or sorts, in it. There was a way to test how strong the signal was which allowed me to adjust the antenna to get the best reception.

Hope some of this helps.

[pbkid]

kat- some installers would and some wouldnt have the meter to tune a CB radio. its not an item on our standard tools list. but most installers have extra tools anyhow.
personally, i would get everything installed and swing by a local truck shop that has a CB shop inside and ask them to tune it for you. its just turning a little screw on the end of the antenna. (its not difficult)

sorry i couldnt help more... let me know if i can give you some advise on mounting/wiring/or dissasembling your VX

[Triathlete]

My box is mounted under the drivers seat just behind the hump. I use the Wilson Lil‘ will antana.

[crotchrocket]

had mine dash mounted (around where your knees are) but you can get 'din' sized adaptors for most iirc.

[Sprey]

My cab you can remote mount it, i had it under the drivers seat but could get it to sit well and i moved the chair and put a big scrape in the unit so thats a NO NO for having it under there anywhere. the unit is self is now mounted under the dash.

Yes i had to drill 3 tiny holes for the antenna mount. sorry vx :p

http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk404/sprey16/IMG_1656.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk404/sprey16/IMG_1657.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk404/sprey16/IMG_1633.jpg

[VX KAT]

Thanks Mark, I really like your set-up.

1) Where did you get the black mounting hardware...did you put that together yourself or is it a "kit"?

2) Could you have moved the mounting bracket set up further right to the passenger side so you didn't have to zip tie the wire to the rack as far?

3) I really like idea of using the ashtray on the back of the console (like Jay did on tomdietrying's) for the little box that this Cobra 75 comes with. And doing the wire your way thru the interior panels, down under carpet, BEHIND the pass seat, across to console ) would make it easy to plug right into that little box if it was mounted in the ashtray.

Tomdietrying or Jay Dunford did I understand your posts correctly and it's this little gray box from the Cobra 75 is what you mounted in that ashtray? http://www.rightchannelradios.com/bmz_cache/2/22b2fdaec51b964d1396e8c31ce4ba10.image.700x466.jpg

4) As plan B, would the mount that Sprey has work on the rear door anywhere? It looks like it's basically the same as this one that Jack was getting: http://www.wearecb.com/store/firestik-wsb4a-screw-on-widget-swivel-bracket-mount-p-322.html

:thanx::thanx::thanx: all!

[Sprey]

Kat i was gonna go simular to this one here like Tonka has done. But was much easier just to mount in the guard.

My vx lives under a carport which is fairly low. even my radio antenna hit so thats the main reason why i havent mounted a roof one.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/42my_cb_antenna_2.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1857)
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/42104-0418_img.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/483)

[MSHardeman]

Sue,

I bought a standard "mirror mount" from a truck stop here in town, but you can get them anywhere:
http://www.cbradiosplus.com/shop/pc/viewprd.asp?idcategory=105&idproduct=1070

All of them seem to come in chrome so I just scuffed mine up with some sandpaper and then spray painted it matte black to sort of match the Yakima basket.

As you can see, the mount is in two pieces so you could really mount it anywhere on your "sweet rack".:bwgy: I just tend to like symmetry, so I mounted mine in the middle.

My garage door is pretty low, so I was looking for an install that I could remove and you would never know that it's there.

Here's the original thread explaining the install. http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=15450&highlight=cb+install
There are also a bunch of other good ideas for CB mounts that others posted up.

Can't wait to see what you come up with in Moab.:thumbup:

[VX KAT]

Again, thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I had seen "mirror mount" in my google searches and passed on them 'cuz I wasn't mounting it to the mirror! DOH! I "assumed" it wasn't what I needed. It's PERFECT! I have my flag mount on the drivers side of the Yakima, and I used some flat black paint on some parts, so we're thinkin' alike on that.
And I had read that thread in the wee hrs of the morn but someone had missed your pictures. :_thinking

Yours looks like it has "rounded" grippers that nicely conform to the Yakima bar, so far I only can find the angled. I'll keep searching.

Also, I've seen both 2 screw and 4 screw models....the 4 like yours would obviously be more secure, no wobble possible, is that why you went with the 4?

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that's the way I'll go. Thanks a million! :thanx:

[MSHardeman]

Sue,

The mount that I linked above is the same one that I have and, yes, it does have angles and "teeth" where it would fit around the bar/mirror. Normally I guess those teeth bite into the metal to stop the mount from rotating, but I didn't want to eff my basket up so I cut out a strip of black rubber, wrapped that around the basket bar, and then clamped the mount over that. That install has been great so far with 70+ mph highway speeds and lots of bouncing around off road with no movement of the antenna....and no damage to the basket bar.

I did go with the four bolt model just to make sure that I could "custom" fit it securely where I wanted to.

Glad I could help.

[VX KAT]

Sue,

The mount that I linked above is the same one that I have and, yes, it does have angles and "teeth" where it would fit around the bar/mirror. Normally I guess those teeth bite into the metal to stop the mount from rotating, but I didn't want to eff my basket up so I cut out a strip of black rubber, wrapped that around the basket bar, and then clamped the mount over that. That install has been great so far with 70+ mph highway speeds and lots of bouncing around off road with no movement of the antenna....and no damage to the basket bar.

I did go with the four bolt model just to make sure that I could "custom" fit it securely where I wanted to.

Excellent, instead of PK in my brain, now I have you...I put rubber around the Yakima bar before I put my flag mount on it...maybe I'm actually gettin' the hang of this "handy" stuff (not to be confused with "Handee"...that's a whole nutter story)...although don't even ask me how many times I had to disassemble & reassemble the Thule rack before I got the order of assembly correct, ...and I've already bribed Dub so he's not talkin'!
But now I dun know how it dun go togetter real good! :thumbup:

[VX KAT]

OK got my Cobra 75 with it's little junction/connection box. We're "thinkin" of trying to hook this up ourself to save some money. We are not at all experienced in dealing with car & electric stuff....:confused:

Think putting it under front seat like Billy did would be best/easiest.

etlsport- can't recall where you put yours.

Could any youz guys give us a detailed "how-to" explanation for connection box and to the power? :flower::flower: :thanx::thanx:

Do I need to look up some VX schematics to find some info or anything? I figure there's got to be a source of power in that console as Jack put his in the center console box and Jay Dunford put Tom's in the rear console ashtray.
Jack- you said you're great with the install details....help...:mbrasd:

[Triathlete]

I ran my power wire to the fuse box on the drivers side of the dash. I used a piggy back fuse (available at radio shack or most any other electronics shops) and used the cigarette lighter fuse. As far as mounting the box, I cut the carpet on 3 sides creating a flap and mounted it to the bare metal. I rau the mic cord to the center console and then forward (cord is plenty long) to the dash. Position the box with the antanaue connection up and forward. This way attachment/removal of ant. is easily done by reaching under the seat from the front. If you have any other questions throw them out there.:bwgy:

[pbkid]

electrically..... do you want it to turn on and off with your VX?

its nice to have it turn on and off with the ignition, but every time you turn the vehicle off, your going to have to re-set the CB channel (which i found very annoying in moab and sometimes i would forget and miss out on conversation)

however, if it stays on all the time, then you have a chance of leaving it on and draining your battery.

so, let me know which way you would like to connect it and i will help you find a wire that will work ;)

[VX KAT]

electrically..... do you want it to turn on and off with your VX?

its nice to have it turn on and off with the ignition, but every time you turn the vehicle off, your going to have to re-set the CB channel (which i found very annoying in moab and sometimes i would forget and miss out on conversation)

however, if it stays on all the time, then you have a chance of leaving it on and draining your battery.

so, let me know which way you would like to connect it and i will help you find a wire that will work ;)

I think we should have it turn on/off with ignition, we'll just have to change the channel, no problem.

Here's our "plan": Remember this is weird locations on the left because I have to have it that way.
We got the mini piggyback fuse like Billy & Mark described. We're going to piggyback it on the lighter fuse, run the wire out the fuse lid, down the left kick panel, along left most edge of carpet by sill to connection box which will be mounted on the floor, (cut carpet on 3 sides to mount it) right next the driver's seat, on left. We'll tuck the cable the same route, with the mic/handset holder around the fuzzy hole area/ left of steering column.

I think the CB will go on/off with ignition if we use the cig lighter fuse, correct?

Decided not to worried about visibility of the connect box, and I can shove the handset under seat when I leave.

Seemed a pretty clear (read: easy) way to do all this....

Think it will all be OK? THe mini fuse can handle up to 30A.

[pbkid]

ya, it will work just fine like that.

definately do the math to figure out exactly what amperage is required for your project. dont ever change to a larger fuse unless you know that the vehicle is still safe. i would try to use the current fuse rating. and if you blow the fuse, let me know and ill figure out what amperage you need ;)

[alterastro]

Get yourselves a JDM dash and then it fits luverly :bwgy:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_92IlRiDjRDE/S4lnHp_9L2I/AAAAAAAABx8/5NH9nlkYboU/s800/IMG_3464.JPG

And this is my twig, which looks good, was easy to SWR and so far have no problems with range etc. Its a Sirio Taifun.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_92IlRiDjRDE/S4lnWHIb9mI/AAAAAAAAB0M/wE6xxsRVqF0/s800/IMG_3481.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_92IlRiDjRDE/S4lnXX18HlI/AAAAAAAAB0U/vM7RARKIgZE/s800/IMG_3482.JPG



Nick

[Triathlete]

The cig lighter fuse will turn on and off with ignition. The cobra cb that we have will store the channel for a while when off (over night it will loose it but not for short trail stops or lunch etc.).
The only problem I forsee with the mic on the left side is that if you forget about it when getting out it might cause you to trip or fall as you get out of the VX.

[VX KAT]

The cig lighter fuse will turn on and off with ignition. The cobra cb that we have will store the channel for a while when off (over night it will loose it but not for short trail stops or lunch etc.).
The only problem I forsee with the mic on the left side is that if you forget about it when getting out it might cause you to trip or fall as you get out of the VX.

Yeah, that's was our thoughts to, so by securing the cable and the mic cord up on the front of the left kick panel seam we're hoping it will stay out of the way enough. If not we'll figger somethin' else....or I could just go buy and import that gorgeous JDM 6/175 in that beige color from NZ on ebay. That shouldn't cost but oh, about, let's say $30,000 USD to import, if I even could do it! But it would solve my problem!

[pbkid]

or I could just go buy and import that gorgeous JDM 6/175 in that beige color from NZ on ebay. That shouldn't cost but oh, about, let's say $30,000 USD to import, if I even could do it! But it would solve my problem!
DO EEEEET!!!!! :thumbup:

[VX KAT]

YAH! This is finally done! Brainstormed some more with my off road shop the other day and had them do the final CB install. Said it'd be so easy to install the box up under the dash, we just decided to have them do it....

Decided to use the rheostat knob as the area to plug in the mic. We used a little sheet of metal cut down to fit in the fuzzy hole, bent it 90 degrees, attached with Velcro, installed the mic hanger on the metal. We put the hanger up as high as possible to minimize blocking the air vent. When I'm done I can just remove the metal sheet with the hanger with the Velcro. Presto!

The cord drapes down but just brushes my legs getting in or out so no tripping, and can lay mic on floor so it's not so obvious when I leave the truck. It's unconventional but this layout works great for me!

Also tested it with Dave's Cobra Handheld CB, and his 5ft FireStik antenna & my 3ft FireStik...you know ...my Barbie Antenna. Able to hear clearly with virtually no static, over 2 little "mountains" away from each other, distance of almost 1 mile. And that's with the rubber type drawer liner & 1 layer of friction tape between my antenna mount & the roof rack bar....something the FireStik CB people told us wouldn't work....but I know it worked for you Mark, so I wanted to try it before I removed the tape and scratched up the black Yakima bar. This reception is also BEFORE we've tuned either antenna with the SWR meter we got....how much better could this get?
YAH!! We're happy!!! All I have to do is dremel down a spot on the fuse cover and that's it.
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC_1863.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC_1860.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC_1852.JPG

[tomdietrying]

Nice job Kat!

BTW does anyone know where Tonka (the dude on the top of the second page) got his antenna? I'd like to mount my cb antenna exactly like Tonka did.
Peace.
Tom

[r2m]

I've used the Midland 75-822 handheld for some years.
Just plug it into your power outlet (lighter socket) and you're good to go! Or with the included accessories, you can add some NiCad or AA's and go for a walk about with it or if you’re stuck and with poor reception, you can hike to the nearest hill for better reception to get help or flag down a mate. You can also add an external antenna too!
Sorry, I don’t think it supports a PA, but you might want to check the spec’s at the attached url, just in case, just that I’ve never needed a PA.
http://www.midlandradio.com/CB-Radio.WYQ/75-822

[tomdietrying]

BTW does anyone know where Tonka (the dude on the top of the second page) got his antenna? I'd like to mount my cb antenna exactly like Tonka did.


Just bringing this back up because Moab is here in 5 weeks and I'd like to get this done project done. Thanks!
Peace.
Tom

[VX KAT]

Just bringing this back up because Moab is here in 5 weeks and I'd like to get this done project done. Thanks!
Peace.
Tom

Tom, maybe it's just me but I couldn't find anything referring to "Tonka", and my thread is all on one page....
Maybe include the link? Since I was just looking for all this stuff I may have seen the antenna you're talking about and can tell you where to get it.

[Riff Raff]

VX-KAT--- Nice install, Sue. The only thing I would change is to re-mount (re-rivet) the "Mike-Holder Clip" to the UPPER flat portion of the fuzzy hole (not the bottom portion as you currently have it).

In this way, it would help raise up the coiled mike-cord from brushing your leg as you entry/exit the VX; and most importantly, it would keep the Microphone itself from "blocking" the air-conditioner vent. In addition, the Microphone would totally hide the fuzzy hole when placed on the upper-mounted mike-clip thereby making for a more clean installation appearance.

[tomdietrying]

Tom, maybe it's just me but I couldn't find anything referring to "Tonka", and my thread is all on one page....
Maybe include the link? Since I was just looking for all this stuff I may have seen the antenna you're talking about and can tell you where to get it.

My bad.........it was actually Sprey who was talking about mounting a CB on the back of his cladding. He posted a picture of Tonka's VX with the CB antenna.

He posted on this thread, first one on the second page.

Peace.
Tom

[VX KAT]

Oh, I see it now.....

Firestik and many other places sell that mount. Jolly Roger used that mount as well and has some pics of the install.
http://vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=155374&postcount=35

http://www.firestik.com/CatalogFrame.htm

https://cbradiosplus.com/shop/pc/viewprd.asp?idcategory=105&idproduct=1072

http://www.walcottcb.com/firestik-mkm2-molded-side-mount-mini-kit-p-578.html

I also bought a Firestik antenna, as did Jolly Roger. Their antennas are great.

[tomdietrying]

Thanks Kat!
Peace.
Tom

[RamAirZ]

I ran a Wilson Flex4 on my Rodeo with a Midland radio from radioshack. It worked great and even with the "mountains" in between me and a friend parked at homedepot, I could talk to him for a good 5 miles before it started breaking up and after 6 miles I couldn't talk to him anymore. I thought it worked great for my trail communication, and was cheap too lol. All my SWR's were just under 1.5. Your install looks good, I mounted mine in the "map" pocket at the bottom of the dash, I also had a marine PA speaker under the hood hooked up to it, now that was fun sitting in the parking lot at work talking to my coworkers when they didn't know where it was coming from haha

http://www.fuelslut.net/ihost/files/8340/IMG_2319.JPG

I used a generic mirror mount and mounted it to my spare tire carrier

http://www.fuelslut.net/ihost/files/8340/IMG_2324.JPG

I'm probably going to use the same setup on the VX, just need to figure out where to mount the antenna. I'm not a big fan of the front mounted ones but they work good. I like that mount Tonka used, anyone know where he got it?

[tjh]

Is the antenna mount that tonka used attached just to the cladding ?

Looks like the bolts would end up pretty close to the door seal .

I like the overall look of the install , I'm just curious as to how the install was executed.

[RamAirZ]

If it is attached just to the cladding it would have needed a ground ran to it unless he used a NGP antenna like for boats or what not. I wanna know where the mount came from lol. It looks to me that it is just off to the left of the seal