Bump Stops

[JAMAS]

Are the bump stops supposed to be making contact when the VX is parked(key out of the ignition) or should there be clearance underneath the bump stop when it is at rest?

Thanks.

[ZEUS]

The rear bump stops? The front has two pairs/types of bump stops and the rear has one pair/type. Generally, in stock form, the rear bump stops seem to be within an inch of the axle when at rest... touching though sounds like potentially mild sagging of the springs, to me... or maybe a missing spring isolator (?). The front droop bump stops may be touching the upper A-arm if the torsion bars were cranked up enough, which would be bad. If the VX was lowered enough, the lower A-arm could be touching the rebound bump stop, which would also suck.

[JAMAS]

Rear bump stops. I just double checked they are definitely touching.

Its parked in my driveway, at a very,very slight angle(front is a wee bit higher, back is a wee bit lower, wee bit)

Should I be concerned?


Thanks!

[ZEUS]

If you are riding around on your bump stops, you can expect a rougher ride and in some situations it may be dangerous. Some VXer's in the past cut down the bump stops so as not to ride on them but offset wheels and/or bigger tires could cause the tires to rub the wheel well after performing this action. Go over some speed bumps and stuff at an angle and with some speed to see if the VX gets pitched around because of the extra stiffness. I figure the VX rides on the outer bump stop during hard cornering anyway, so I doubt it is a problem... but like everything else you read, take it with a grain of salt. I imagine someone on the board has some stock springs collecting dust, if it makes you uneasy, you could swap out perhaps. As a lame guideline, the VX in stock form sits with a rake toward the front - so the rear end is higher than the front.

[pbkid]

or you could raise yours VX ever so slightly (like 2") so you dont have to worry about it....costs about $150 and 2 hours of your time...

[Ldub]

IIRC, & it's been a while since mine was stock, on level ground, there was only about 1/4" of clearance between the rear axle & the bump stop...:_wrench:

[JAMAS]

I just spoke with the previous owner. He said that the front was always raised a little higher. He thinks that maybe the torsion bar was cranked too tight.

Does that make sense? If so, how do I go about correcting that so my VX is level again. Should I just go to a suspension place and have them look at it?

Thanks for the help. I just purchased yesterday and have been going over everything with a fine tooth comb making sure I made a good purchase.

[JAMAS]

Searching now.

Could that explain why the front is higher?

Thanks!

[ZEUS]

Yeah, it could and it could explain why you are riding on the bump stops also. Take a measurement between the rear wheel well and the tire, the front tire should be about 3/4" to 1" closer than the rear - in my experience, anyway. Congrats on the purchase, BTW!

[JAMAS]

I will give that a try, hopefully I can manage.

I am usually pretty good at figuring things out, but I always worry that I am going to mess something up.

Yeah, my ride height is about 1-2 inches higher (from tire to cladding) in the front than the rear. So I am the opposite of what you said.

Are there any pictures out there of what the torsion bar looks like so I know I am looking at the right part?

Sorry for all the follow up questions, I do appreciate the help.

[deermagnet]

This stuff should help ya out.

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/vx/rideheight.gif

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/vx/vx/trimheight.gif

I don't know if there's any adjustment for the rear height. Mine since new has always been slightly higher in the back and I like that look.

Mark Griffin (a VX lifer)

[tom4bren]

IIRC nfpgasmask has a set of rear springs to dispose of.

An alignment shop can crank your torsion bars for you if you don't want to do it yourself. You should have an alignment done after the adjustment anyway.

[deermagnet]

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/vx/vxfrsus.gif

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/vx/vx/torsionbar.gif

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/vx/vxrrsus.gif

Mark

[pbkid]

you just wanna turn that bolt on the far end...

just MAKE SURE you turn them the same amount of times, that way they dont get uneven...

your car should have at least 1 degree of rake towards the front...if not, you may have rear axle problems...

oh, and to give you point of reference, i cranked my bolts(a lot of people say bars but i think that is confusing because the bars dont turn much) 14 times to get about 2.5-3" of lift.... so if your looking to drop 1" in front i would crank them maybe 4 times??

also, make sure you crank them less times than expected, drive it around the block (over some bumps and turns) then re-measure...because they settle ;)

[deermagnet]

If you were taking it to an Isuzu dealer for the alignment, you could explain the situation and they'd get the height all squared away before doing the alignment. If you were going to a generic alignment shop, I'd do my best to get the height back to normal on my own first. Is that shop going to care that the trim height is 4.69" before they do the alignment? If the front wheel bearings have never been repacked, I'd have that done by an Isuzu dealer also before aligning.

I've had mine aligned seven or eight times and the bearings repacked four times all by Isuzu dealers and it rolls down the road like it's on rails. I do plenty of tire rotations and have never seen the slightest bit of uneven tire wear.

Mark

[JAMAS]

...Is that shop going to care that the trim height is 4.69" before they do the alignment?...


I would think the shop might have a better chance than I would. I don't know what you mean by trim height, or how to set it to that. Is that something I could tell the shop? Is there anything else I should make sure they do? I will make an appointment and a trek over to the Isuzu dealer to repack bearings and what not at a later date.

Thanks

[JAMAS]

or you could raise yours VX ever so slightly (like 2") so you dont have to worry about it....costs about $150 and 2 hours of your time...

How do I do that?

[pbkid]

How do I do that?

if you wanted to get more of an 'offroad' look then you could buy the OME springs for the rear...and then all you have to do is crank the torsion bars up front...

if your trying to keep the 'stock' look then you need to have it adjusted back to stock...

its just a cheap, easy way to make your VX look much more aggressive....

search for lift or something along those lines and you will see tons of threads and walkthrough's on how to do it...

[JAMAS]

I think I got the problem solved.

I took the VX in to the shop to have them lower the torsion bar, do an alignment, and balance the tires.

My results.....

VX looks much better now that it is level and not constantly looking like it is going up hill.
I have almost a 1/2 inch gap now under the bump stops.
No rubbing from tires after a minor grinding of hidden cladding corner.
While aligning, they discovered the front wheels were "Pigeon toed" (Left tire going to the left, right tire going to the right) when the wheel was straight. When they tried to fix that, they were unable to loosen the jam nut on the tie rod because it was rusted together. I watched him try EVERYTHING to get it loose. So they order the parts ($350 plus labor on top of other alignment and torsion bar fixes) and should be fixed today.

I have owned the VX for about 48 hours and have already had to spend about $500 and it looks like I may have to have a mode selector switch put in. I hope this isn't an indication of my future expenses.:mad:

[ZEUS]

DUDE!!! You may want to cancel that order! Look at these HD tie rods if you are going to have to replace your originals - especially for that kind of money! https://id211.chi.us.securedata.net/independent4x.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?cPath=63_88&products_id=57

[JAMAS]

Ordered!

This site rocks!!!

[ZEUS]

Ordered!

This site rocks!!!Agreed! So... with that money you were able to save, donating $20 to the site makes good sense, yeah? :bgwo:

[JAMAS]

Already did yesterday. Just waiting for the "e-check" to clear from paypal.

[Ldub]

Agreed! So... with that money you were able to save, donating $20 to the site makes good sense, yeah? :bgwo:


Already did yesterday. Just waiting for the "e-check" to clear from paypal.

:thumbup:...:dance:...:thumbup:...:cool:

[JAMAS]

I am assuming the "Long" tie rods will fit without any issue?

[CrnCnn]

I dont remember there being a size issue when I ordered mine. I will do the research tonight and find out what ones i have. Unless someone else anwers first.

[CrnCnn]

Justin, is this statement true?

"Tie Rod Breakage is the #1 downfall of the front IFS on Isuzu trucks"

At least coming out of a hot tub????

[tom4bren]

"Anyway, adding polish to a turd is not high on my gotta do list... And cue tom4bren!"

I have no response to that.

I don't have any experience with tie rod problems so I won't chime in on that either. I have noticed that the joints on our center link appear notorious for being impossible to remove without damage. Sounds like the shop experience similar issues.

[CrnCnn]

Yeah, that exact thing happened to CrnCnn also and he ended up getting the HD tie rods afterward... wear parts, you know... :rolleyes:

Dont get me started..... :eek:

[CrnCnn]

Item Description Qty Unit Price Total Price
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Isuzu IFS Heavy (APPLICATION = All VX 1 $199.99 $199.99
Duty Tie Rods models)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subtotal $199.99
Shipping $25.25
Tax $0.00
Total $225.24



Here is what my order email said. NOT very helpful. I emailed Indy4x to find out.

Plus my order was made 2 years ago. The different size were put into the catalog last year.

[CrnCnn]

I just got a response.

I have the "long" version.

[JAMAS]

I have not received a response yet from my e-mail to Independent4x. Luckily, they were installed on Friday without any issue. I also have the "Long" installed.

I feel like I went from chopsticks to a broom handle. Those tie rods are HUGE!:eek:

[samneil2000]

Not to TJ here, but this post seemed like the place. I want to order the OME 3 inch springs and bump stops from I4X but I can't find the rear bump stops on their website. Do they have them on the web? Do they carry them at all? Will I need to order them from someone else?
Will the springs give 3 inches of lift in the back or should I get spacers too? I don't want to lift the back more than I will be able to in the front with just torsion bars and no diff-drop. I also don't want to it to ride on the front stops.
Also, should I order the low pro front stops, or just sawzall mine in half?

[samneil2000]

Ugh, now I know what Todd Adams meant about getting burned out answering these questions - it's constant. Do a search for "VX lift wiki", part numbers and descriptions are included.

I did I did, I promise. I have a shortcut saved directly to the "lift wiki" page for easy use. I spent 2 weeks lurking, searching, and learning before I piped up with this question. But when I go to the I4X site, I can't find the bump stops, even if I search for them by part number. That's why I'm asking if they still carry them, and if not, where else might I get them. I have read tons of lifting posts on here, believe me. :_confused

[Ascinder]

Just do an internet search on either energy suspension or prothane. You ought to be using smaller bumpstops up front and bigger in the rear. I think energy suspensions has low profile and ultra low profile for the fronts. You probably only need low profile for 0"-3" of lift IMHO. The rears you should be able to get away with 9.9104B or 9.9104R which just means either black or red. I am using these in the rear of mine, plus a piece of 2-1/2" square tubing as a n additional spacer. I am at 4-1/2" of lift. So you ought to be fine.

[ZEUS]

I did I did, I promise. I have a shortcut saved directly to the "lift wiki" page for easy use. I spent 2 weeks lurking, searching, and learning before I piped up with this question. But when I go to the I4X site, I can't find the bump stops, even if I search for them by part number. That's why I'm asking if they still carry them, and if not, where else might I get them. I have read tons of lifting posts on here, believe me. :_confusedAlright, sorry... The Energy' bump stops were just an improvisional choice I made when I needed to replace my factory bump stops and some other people have followed that lead cuz it is simple. I4x doesn't offer anything for rear bump stops as far as I know. You can find your own bump stops to use though. I jumped a railroad crossing the other day at 50 mph and the extra stiffness of the poly bumpers caused the VX to land/bounce a little funny. And they also have a tendency to "spring back" a little heavy on speed bumps as well. That is the annoying part of using these bumpers. If you can locate some rubber bump stops or lower your factory ones using a fabbed spacer you may be better off. There, that's a better answer for you... :)

[VX KAT]

When Tim Parker did my windows, he noticed I'm pretty much riding on the rear bump stops and that explains the really rough ride on dirt road, etc..

My goal, I just want a smoother ride on dirt, gravel roads.

I searched & read some threads about bump stops and cranking on the torsion adjustment bolts. JAMAS mentioned he was going to cut his stops in half. Did you ever do that? How'd it come out? What about getting the low profile or ultra low profile stops?

Would cutting the rears in half do much? Spacing on my 4Runner's rear stops are like 8"....so wasn't sure an inch or so would make much difference on VX, & read where LDub says stock is around 1/4" space. I can't do a lift of any kind because it would make it too hard for me to get into car (long story).

Taking it to a shop next week for tranny & transf case flush & alignment, & they could work on this, but I wanted some advice from you VX'ers.

Any suggestions?? Thanks.:thanx:

Here's pics of both front & rear.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCN04351.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCN0439.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCN04381.JPG

[deermagnet]

I still say the stock shocks are your biggest problem. You gotta get rid of them. You checked the front end and it's like a rock. Get the 9-way adjustable Rancho shocks. Either the old school non-gas charged, if ya can find 'em, or the new XL gas charged. You can dial in the ride you want and the difference will be dramatic on your bumpy road.

Is that four paws I see in the last photo? You got some kinda desert critter walkin' 'round the garage?

Get the front and rear diffy fluids changed also as long as that shop is under there. Then you get all four fluids changed at the same time in the future.

Mark

[VX KAT]

Is that four paws I see in the last photo? You got some kinda desert critter walkin' 'round the garage?



Yeah, that's Bandi our desert dog (mutt)....she's black (with tan paws) yet only takes like 4 tablespoons of water on a hot day sometimes, very weird......:coolo:

[VX KAT]

OK, thanks deermagnet, just ordered the Rancho RX9000XL's....I'm tired of complaining about the ride....just gave the ole' MasterCard a little workout. Buy 3, get 1 free, & free shipping deal, so that helped, PLUS they have a 90 day ride guarantee.....they'll refund price + $50/axle labor costs if I don't like them.

I'll post my OEM stock KYB shocks FOR SALE after we see what condition they're in. Been told x2 no leaks, looked good.

Since I'm going to Moab, if somebody also attending wants to buy them I'll bring them, save big on shipping.

[VX KAT]

OK, gettin the Rancho RS9000XL's installed Thursday. Checked rear bumb stops today and they're virtually touching, so I'm going to have shop cut them in half like suggested on previous threads.

Question 1- If the Rear bump stops are touching, then the suspension isn't really getting to do it's job, right??? By cutting them down, I'll gain about 1" - 1 1/2" clearance ...is that going to make much difference by ITSELF or how does that work with the new Ranchos?? LDub, you said you thought the stock clearance in rear was about 1/4" or so....how could that make any sense? These great OEM shocks, but then only a super small distance for the suspension to travel...seems like the shocks wouldn't get to do much on the compression side of the function??

Question 2- What about the front bump stops?? So far, can only see the stop on the lower part, seems like it has at least 1/2" clearance (pic above). With the new Ranchos installed, should I still get an low or ultra low profile stop to replace the lower ones?

Question 3 - I tried reading all the threads about adjusting the torsion bars and how that could help, but I just don't have any understanding of all that. Should the shop do anything to the torsion bars while they're puttin' in the Ranchos to give the bump stops more clearance??

Thanks for being patient on this subject that I've definitely driven into the ground! It should be over soon! Sorry!!:thanx:

[deermagnet]

Okay, all this talk about bump stops got me curious. In over nine years I've never looked for them or noticed them while under there. So, I just went out to take a look at mine for the first time. Both rear stops have about 3/8" clearance. Both lower front stops are missing the rubber pieces. They may have fallen out years ago. There's just empty shells with about 1.5" of clearance. I think I would know if I had any metal on metal contact there. I'm not sure but I really don't think the bump stops play a big role in how the VX rides on rough roads. My VX rides great on the old school Rancho RS9000X shocks (soon to be replaced with the XL's). It always has and I really like the ride with those shocks and my bump stops as they are now.

I'll probably try to remove the remains of the front stops and get some Energy Suspension bump stops.

Kat, you're looking at a fraction of an inch difference on the rear stops from some of us. Maybe you should hold off on messing with the bump stops until you see how it rides with the new shocks. The bump stops may be a non-issue for you. But it's your VX and your call. ;)

Mark Griffin (a VX lifer) :_steering