trooper diff. compatibility

[pbkid]

ok, so im sure it has been discussed at some point in time like everything has...
and yes i did search and the closest i found was the 'the 12 bolt aussie locker is available' by LDUB thread...

however, my question is, would lockers and gearing for a trooper work the same for our VX diff??

i ASSUME that it wouldnt or many more of the 'hardcore' guys would have lockers and 'teragears' by now...but i figured i would ask ;)

looking into locking my rear diff before moab... but there is a wide range of lockers available for a trooper but not a whole lot specifically for the VX...

oh, and dub, did you ever get your locker put in and finished??

did you use our diff or did you have to order a different diff?? (why cant locker go in our diff?) the locker itself isnt all that expensive, and i wouldnt mind paying someone to put it in for me, but i dont understand why we cant use our diff?? (thats what i have gotten from what i have read)

[ZEUS]

OK, the diff can be described as a bunch of bits that work together inside the housing of an axle. In our case, we have a 3rd member that carries the ring and pinion gears, bearings, and the "differential" which in our case is a limited slip differential. Locked, selectable, Limited slip, and open are the terms used to describe what type of diff or carrier an axle assembly has. Being that we have an LSD in the rear means the ring gear bolts directly to it. If you were to order an ARB (model RD85), it would replace the LSD,and the ring gear would then bolt to the ARB instead. This means you would have to shim and adjust your gears so that they mesh correctly again. If you were to order a "lunchbox" style locker (Aussie Locker) you would also need to find an open carrier/diff to use in your stock axle housing. You end up swapping out the spider gears in that carrier and you replace them with the locker instead. If you already had a 3rd member set up with the 4.30 gear ratio AND an open carrier you would not have to adjust the gears to mesh correctly unless you just didn't trust them as is. The point is you didn't have to remove the ring gear or the carrier from the assembly to use the locker. So you can spend $400 on an Aussie Locker and another whatever for an open carrier and have all that swapped into your axle housing. Or you can spend $800+ on an ARB and have the same adjustments performed for the same amount and then spend some extra change for switches and compressor. Disclaimer: Just my understanding!

[WiSDoM]

that was a good explanation. :p

[Ascinder]

Or you can just open up your case, weld it all up and run a "Lincoln locker". No so selectable, but practically free and very effective on the trails.:)

[ZEUS]

A lincoln locker works by using an open diff and welding the spider gears together using your Lincoln brand welder. I have never heard of someone using an LSD to accomplish this but that is not to say it is impossible. But it is full of parts, so I wouldn't recommend it. Some axles have aftermarket spools available which is the lightest diff you can get, no moving parts, no extra weight, just a collar that splines the axle shafts together and has a flange to bolt the ring gear to. Simple and cheap but only available for a few axles.

[pbkid]

ok, so....

it seems like the ARB stuff is very expensive, but in the end you end up spending the same for ARB as you would an 'aussie' locker because you need to buy the extra 3rd member? and the ARB can be 'turned on and off' in a way?

all in all, your looking at what? about 1200-1500 depending on how much the shop charges to put it in??

[Ldub]

ok, so....

it seems like the ARB stuff is very expensive, but in the end you end up spending the same for ARB as you would an 'aussie' locker because you need to buy the extra 3rd member? and the ARB can be 'turned on and off' in a way?

all in all, your looking at what? about 1200-1500 depending on how much the shop charges to put it in??

In no particular order...:_wrench:
(sounds less condescending that way...:rolleyesg)

Matt sold me my used "open" carrier out of a Trooper for around $50.00+ shipping, so they aren't that expensive...

Any parts for an Isuzu corp. 12 bolt rear end (the number of bolts that attach the ring gear to the carrier) should work in the VX rear axle.
A standard limited slip carrier won't accept an Aussie locker, or an ARB, IIRC.

No I haven't got mine in yet, it's installed in the carrier, all goobered up with Mobil 1 syn grease for pre lube, all the tolerances are within spec, I've got a full set of shims, new bearings, & 13 (just in case :smilewink) new ring gear bolts...:thumbup:
Just no warm weather or jing to finish the job.
Justin, correct me if I'm wrong, but setting the lash shouldn't be that hard, since , in theory, the pinion shouldn't have to come out of the third...:_wrench:
Or am I lookin' at this wrong?:_confused

[pbkid]

oh ok, thats not too bad then....around 500-600 in parts??? maybe a few hundred in labor if i had a shop do it??

[Ldub]

oh ok, thats not too bad then....around 500-600 in parts??? maybe a few hundred in labor if i had a shop do it??

Let's wait for the Zeusters response, he has FAR more experience with setting up gears than I do.
On my best day, I might have a rudimentary grasp of the "how to's" of setting up gears...:rolleyes:
I have a local homie that'll set em' up for me for fiddy, but I have to do all the R & R, & bring em' to his shop for the setup.
Pulling the sensors has me a little cautious, as even seasond pros (Jerry Lemond) have trouble sometimes, getting them out in reusable condition...:sighwgray

[pbkid]

hmmm...so once again, when i do mine, its best to have a shop do it so i dont have to worry about the sensors because it would be their responsibility to make sure they are removed and replaced properly...

[ZEUS]

Let's wait for the Zeusters response, he has FAR more experience with setting up gears than I do.
On my best day, I might have a rudimentary grasp of the "how to's" of setting up gears...:rolleyes:I don't have that much experience with gear setup, actually. I have participated in a couple of builds on Jeep axles and witnessed the practice, but that's 'bout it. I do think you are correct about setting the preload on the pinion shaft. You shouldn't have to mess with that at all, unless you want to put in a new pinion seal. However, when swapping out the LSD for anything else, you should make sure the gears mesh correctly again. But the guidline is to use the shims that were used for the stock diff in their original locations first, as a starting point. From there, you may or may not have to add, remove, or relocate shims. So it is nice to have shims in hand in case you do need them.

And Jack, I think your estimate is right for the Aussie Locker parts. What I was trying to say is, when having someone set up your diff, whether you wish to install an ARB or an Aussie, they should charge you the same. You will have to drill and tap for the air line though as well. So yeah, to run an ARB, it should cost around $1200 in parts. The Aussie plus carrier/3rd is far less at $5-600 in parts. The install charge of either diff should be about equal though.

Regarding the sensors, that is a personal call. The difference in cost to have a shop work on a removed 3rd versus an installed axle assembly is massive!

[pbkid]

ok, are the sensors something that could just be ordered for the new 3rd?? that way you dont have to worry about taking them out of the old one?

[pbkid]

hmmm...so thats something i need to read in to...because if i can just order new ones then i will not have to worry about keeping those ones in good shape ;)

[pbkid]

ouch...maybe i should just be really careful taking them out huh?? ;)

i dunno...maybe this whole locker thing is beyond my ability lol...

maybe an air locker for the front would be easier :)

[Ascinder]

Hey, I just saw an episode on Extreme 4x4 where they're setting up an ARB in a dana 44. Although we have a third member and they dont, many of the steps are the same, if not similar, and the show would help you guys understand what's going on here. I think you can watch the episodes for free online. Here's a link to this episode:

http://www.powerblocktv.com/site3/index.php/watch-full-episodes/ep?ep_show=XT

So, as you can see, you probably will have to mess with the shimming a little there Dub:(. Also, this (http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-ARB/articles/14b_ARB_install-review/) is a good read to get ready. Again, it's not identical, but it will set you on the right track concept-wise.

[Ldub]

The sensors are in the axle housing ends. They need to be removed to get the axle shafts out - at least that was what Spazz told me. So we did remove them successfully. I don't remember exactly why they needed to be pulled though. :confused:

The axle shafts won't pull out with the sensors in place...I'VE TRIED...:upsetwgra
Then buttoned everything back up, went to Moab, & had fun anyway...:dance:

[Ldub]

Hey, I just saw an episode on Extreme 4x4 where they're setting up an ARB in a dana 44. Although we have a third member and they dont, many of the steps are the same, if not similar, and the show would help you guys understand what's going on here. I think you can watch the episodes for free online. Here's a link to this episode:

http://www.powerblocktv.com/site3/index.php/watch-full-episodes/ep?ep_show=XT

So, as you can see, you probably will have to mess with the shimming a little there Dub:(. Also, this (http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-ARB/articles/14b_ARB_install-review/) is a good read to get ready. Again, it's not identical, but it will set you on the right track concept-wise.

Great info Ascinder...THANKS!...:yes:

[BigSwede]

You could have Independent4x make up a third member complete with locker and gears (might be a good time to switch to 4.56? 'Course then you'd have to do the front gears too...). Then all you have to do is swap thirds...that is what I did for my lockers.

[pbkid]

thats a great option too!

if you dont mind me asking, how much was it for both ends??

i would consider saving up this summer to pay for both ends to be done (of course i wouldnt be able to get it done by moab, but it would be great for next year ;) )

[BigSwede]

Well my deal involved setting up some 5.38s, ARBs, and some horse trading, so it would be difficult to compare to yours...suffice to say the Aussies are a lot cheaper than ARBs (the Aussie lockers were not available when I did my lockers). Just call Matt at Indy4x, he'll tell you the size of the mountain you need to climb :bwgr:

[pbkid]

lol alright...im sure its gonna be a decent sized mountain...