What A Kick In The Pants!!!!!

[JAMAS]

Windows were done!!!! Done I say!!

They were working beautifully, I was soooo happy.

until evil "Captain Should-Have-Researched-More" reared his ugly head.

MY GLUE FAILED!! Windows went up and down several, several times. I was positive it was good before I moved on. Then I made art work out of the moisture barrier. New plastic, duct tape around all holes to prevent tearing, sealant all around the edges. It was perfect.

So now that, that has been said and I am an expert at window fixing...

What is the strongest glue that I can get to hold this stupid window to the SBC bracket?

[VX KAT]

Tim Parker at SBC used "Liquid Nails". See pic.

[JAMAS]

So did I.

However, Liquid Nails makes several flavors and apparently I picked the wrong one. Does the picture have any indication of what flavor it is?

[VX KAT]

Maybe you can go by the color of the tube here....http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/DSCN0819.jpg

[newthings]

How about windshield mirror glue?
Roy

[TheGanzman]

I'd use "Marine Grade"...

[rowhard]

how much time did you give it to cure?

[Riff Raff]

how much time did you give it to cure?

Hmmm, ROWHARD-- good observation. Any glue takes longer to cure in a air-restricted space like within a confined door cavity. Time to ponder about "curring time". "AIM HIGH!!!"

[JAMAS]

how much time did you give it to cure?

The package called for 24 hours cure time. I gave it 36 hours.

What about a hard epoxy? Is there any reason the glue shouldn't be rock hard when it dries?

Like THIS (http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=40308-133-01-35210&lpage=none) one?....

[tom4bren]

Cure hard (epoxy) ... cure soft (RTV) ain't what's critical. You need something that sticks to glass.

I haven't done the repair yet but plan on using a high grade of black RTV.

[JAMAS]

Cure hard (epoxy) ... cure soft (RTV) ain't what's critical. You need something that sticks to glass.

I haven't done the repair yet but plan on using a high grade of black RTV.

like THIS (http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_makers/auto_Permatex_Ultra_Black_Maximum_Oil_Resistance_R TV_Silicone_Gasket_Maker.htm)?

I don't want to mess up again.

[tom4bren]

Yes sir - that's what I had in mind. Just make sure that there isn't any silicon lube on the glass before install or the RTV won't stick to the glass.

[JAMAS]

Since I am going to redo it, I plan on going over the top on prep work.

I am going to....

-remove the window completely.
-clean the window at the contact points.
-remove the rubber seals and clean them really good.
-hose the rubber down with silicone.
-remove metal brackets that I installed on sunday and clean them out.
-reinstall rubber seals
-install brackets back full of RTV.
-put window back in
-attach bracket to window.
-roll up the window completely so that the bracket is exactly where it needs to be.
-let dry for 3-6 months (okay maybe 2 days)

and of course, this only happened on the drivers side, passenger side glue still good. However, I am going to redo that one too.

I HATE rework!

[tom4bren]

One of my favorite sayings:

There's never time to do it right ... but ... there's always time to do it over.

You prolly did it right Jamas but there could have been some silicon lube residue left on the glass - glue hates that stuff.

[rowhard]

like THIS (http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_makers/auto_Permatex_Ultra_Black_Maximum_Oil_Resistance_R TV_Silicone_Gasket_Maker.htm)?

I don't want to mess up again.

you might also think about roughing up the window with some 80 grit where the bracket goes to give it some tooth if you didn't before.

[LittleBeast]

I'd use "Marine Grade"...

Yes, that is what I used, and I pulled the windows and cleaned the heck out of them and then left them in my garage to dry overnight, then I put them back in the VX the next day after they had cured completely for 24hours with no moving around at all.

[JAMAS]

I don't think I can safely apply the brackets to the windows outside of the tracks because I didn't mark them good enough.

I am going to do all of what you said, but have them dry in the "up" position.

[tom4bren]

"after they had cursed completely for 24hours"

*(&^%^&$#%^&

BWAAHAAHAA!!

[LittleBeast]

I don't think I can safely apply the brackets to the windows outside of the tracks because I didn't mark them good enough.

I am going to do all of what you said, but have them dry in the "up" position.

You can always just put them back in there roll window all the way up and mark again. But I am sure you will be ok if you just let them cure in the up position. Yeah once I did put them back in I don't think I tried rolling them up and down for a week or so, I put masking tape over the buttons because I know how forgetful I am especially at drive thrus, ;)

[LittleBeast]

"after they had cursed completely for 24hours"

*(&^%^&$#%^&

BWAAHAAHAA!!

I am really glad you still have not figured out how to click the "quote" button below the reply you want to respond to ;)

[tom4bren]

Not nearly as much fun:)

Edit: Actually what I should have said is that 'paraphrasing is MUCH more fun'.

[JAMAS]

I removed my windows and rubber tracks last night. Even on the side that still had the bracket attached, the liquid nails was still liquidy. It hadn't cured after over 48 hours. I also found that the driver side rubber was torn down the center channel. So now I am going to order new rubber from Merlin (hopefully available and only about $8 a side still) this morning and wait patiently. After everything comes in, I am going to add white lithium grease to the channels, reinstall the gasket, then install windows and attach to brackets. I am planning on using marine grade epoxy. After seeing how little everything cured, I moved from my thoughts of RTV to a marine grade epoxy that is supposed to be able to cure underwater. Figured that would take care of my problem once and for all(I hope).

The good news is, I am AMAZINGLY fast at removing door panels, windows, etc. after all the practice I have had. I am in the West Chester, OH area if anyone wants assistance.

[tom4bren]

JAMAS,

Read your marine grade epoxy carefully. It shouldn't apply to a 2 part epoxy but ...

I used some marine grade RTV once and didn't realize that it required UV (sunlight) to cure. Since it was in a windowless room - it NEVER cured.

Tom

[rowhard]

something else I did was drill some holes thru the bracket so there would be a little squeeze out

[JAMAS]

Will do. It's supposed to be able to cure underwater so I hope it doesn't apply. I will check though.

I just got off the phone with Merlin. $69 a side for the new window track rubber. I don't know where I read about the $8 a side, but that sucks. Oh well, at least it will be fixed.

[tom4bren]

"It's supposed to be able to cure underwater"

So was the marine RTV.

You should be OK though since 1/2 of the 2 part epoxy is the catalyst.

"I don't know where I read about the $8 a side"

That was in an earlier thread - it was quickly disproved.:)

[JAMAS]

something else I did was drill some holes thru the bracket so there would be a little squeeze out

Thats not a bad idea. Maybe that could be suggested to SBC as a version 2 of the brackets.

[JAMAS]

Well, I reinstalled the new window gasket with lithium grease in track, new vapor barrier, and reglued the SBC bracket using marine grade epoxy.

The brackets seem to be rock solid now (knock on wood) and the windows go up and down. However, there seems to be a little binding on the front and some freeplay in the window guide so when the window goes up the initial jarring from the motor starts to tilt if forward, then it corrects itself and the seats properly (think of the window making a "D", also see window raising pattern below). I am thinking I need to widen the front tracks. However, I cant find a "how-to" on that. I searched and just found it mentioned. Can anyone provide assistance on the best/easiest way to do that?

Thanks!

Window Raising pattern:
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[VX KAT]

yeah, I did find the track widening instructions, they were in a thread by "phines"....but now I'm having trouble finding it using search too....I'll keep trying..

First, clean out the rubber track as best you can. Mine had old dried up lubricant of some type and was gunky. Then put pure silicon spray all along the inside of the rubber track (both front and rear vertical tracks.)

Basically you just pry the sides of the FRONT vertical track apart (I used an adjustable wrench). I tried to spread them apart a bit, as far up the track as I could reach (putting my hand and the wrench through the metal cutout in the door). I didn't do much to the lower part as that's not where the binding is coming from.

Then PHINES advised to also bend that bracket holding the front track. Bend it toward the front of the car a little, to relieve pressure applied directly to the glass EDGE. Again I did that with adjustable wrench.

I also examined the REAR vertical track to see if I could determine if it, too, was "pinching" the glass edge...I just widened it a tad, as my binding seemed to be all from the front track.

By widening the track, the rubber molding strip that fits in the track exerted a lot less pressure on the front edge of the glass, thus less binding, and allowed my window to go up without "slowing down" midway up.

I'm told we should reapply the silicone spray at least quarterly.

Actually, I think I just covered everything that was in phines post.
Hope it helps! :thumbup:

[Ldub]

This may also prove useful...:_wrench:

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=5604&highlight=vice+grip