Hydraulic lift?

[AlaskaVX]

Hey, I see all those slammed cars with hydraulics to get them up to "driving height", but do they do this to lift vehicles? I would like to drive in town at the normal height but when I could use the xtra 4" I'd like to be able to press a button and bam! 4 extra inches. Is this possible? for a somewhat limited budget? Can the system be submegible? I'm just dreaming so let me know what you guys think. Maybe even an adjustable lift, now that would be cool!

[Triathlete]

There is a company called AiRock that makes a real sweet air bag system for off road use. As of now they only make it for the Jeep Rubocon (with either a 4 or 6 inch lift). It is pretty expensive. It automatically lowers to stock ride height at speeds above 20mph. When stopped it has an egress setting that lowers it to about stock height for ease of entry/exit. When of roading it can be lifted front, rear, or both. There is an varticle in the June 2003 issue of Peterson's 4wheel & off-road.:naughty: :rotate:

[AlaskaVX]

OK so I went to a shop in town and they said that they could do it for about $3,000. My questions now are, would this work well offroad? Would it take some of the articulation away? Can it be submerged in water? How would this effect the ride of the VX?

The guy explained that it would ride softer at stock height and ride stiff when lifted. This sounds like it would work well, but I know absolutely nothing about suspension stuff. He also talked about keeping the shocks in place (at least in the rear) and adding an airbag. What is the advantage of still having a shock? How would the airbags effect the shock? by that I mean when its lifted the shock would be extended, how would that effect the ride?

I know its a million questions, just looking for all the info. possible.
Thanks in advance,
Alan

[MrCrowley]

I know some old Subarus and Land Rovers had some kind of adjustable air ride stuff. After being let down from a hydraulic lift, the old Subaru would psst, psst, psst itself to level again. Weird. I too have fantasized about your same idea, but I dont think any system would be equal to driving stock, or equal lifted. After rallying the VX with taller 265/75/16's I felt it would have behaved even better with less height. But wait- I would have as much clearance to 4 wheel. A vicious circle.The plan that is the most compromising would be some sort of body mount lifts since it will never interfere with suspension geometry. Thats where all the problem lies. By the way have you noticed that all those "slammed" cars drive like weak pieces of junk with crooked tires and worn components? How about your VX? Do you trust somebody to play with your car as an experiment that knows nothing about VX's or who doesnt have a pretested "kit" for it? Let us know if you do find some sort of "holy grail" of adjustable height because Im sure alot of VX owners would be interested. Maybe somebody has made some sort of a Rodeo kit that may be somewhat compatible. Good Luck!

[AlaskaVX]

Originally posted by MrCrowley
By the way have you noticed that all those "slammed" cars drive like weak pieces of junk with crooked tires and worn components? How about your VX? Do you trust somebody to play with your car as an experiment that knows nothing about VX's or who doesnt have a pretested "kit" for it?

Well when I was talking with this guy he really seemed to know what he was doing and was very excited to do something besides all the Hondas and whatnot. He said that his buiseness was a lot of fun for a while then it just started getting repeditive, Honda after Honda.

My reasons that those cars all have crooked tires and worn components is because they dropped it, and the lower the car the more beatup it gets, also look at who's driving it. Thanks for the heads up though.

[valenki]

Vehicross has one of the best suspension systemsd the world has ever known. Whay would you want to change anything??? This suspension was a part of my truck when the previous owner paid 36 000 sticker price for it ??!! So why would you want to spend 3000 to make it hydro if the car wasn't designed for it ??? Boggles my mind.......:rolleyes:

[AlaskaVX]

Because then I could hit a switch and it will lift 4" automatically. You can still have all the handling of having a stock height VX but when you go offroad, 4 more inches instantly. It will actually be able to jump too, so I'm told. So if somethings too big to drive over I can just hop it ;) I was planning on lifting it before I even owned it, and this seems to be the ideal way of doing it without loosing handling on the road.

[Tone]

You WILL lose the stock handling even at the low position with any kind of bag or hydraulic system added after the fact. Sorry, can’t have both.

[AlaskaVX]

Could you explain that further Tone? If there where still shocks there why would it make a difference? Again I'm clueless when it come to suspension work.

[Navigator]

Originally posted by AlaskaVX
Could you explain that further Tone? If there where still shocks there why would it make a difference? Again I'm clueless when it come to suspension work.

Consider it a learning experience. No one has tried this with a VX. You have a vision, a pioneering spirit driving you to gut your prooven stock suspension and make it experimental. No one can guarantee it will ever function as good or better than stock, but then again the end result may suit you just fine. If you can, test drive a truck with this mod before you decide. You are familiar with the VX stock handling characteristics. No other production truck with true off road capability handles as well as a VX. Weigh what you learn from the test drive and decide if it is worth $3000 + the stock performance. In the end you will be wiser about suspensions, and hopefully willing to share your findings here.


I'm curious :naughty:

[Tone]

All suspensions are a compromise but this more so when added after the fact and not in the overall design of the vehicle BEFORE it is built. Cranking the Tbars up an inch in the front changes the handling noticeably. Changing from the stock shocks changes the handling. Changing the air pressure in the tires changes the handling. Raising and lowering a vehicle changes all sorts of angles and characteristics that the vehicle was not designed to handle.

The Cayenne (and others) has a sophisicated height adjustable suspension but it is designed in and is part of the reason the vehicle is so expensive. Theirs works but it is also combined with their stability control to make it effective and safe.

It would be all but impossible to even take their complete system and make it work on the VX not to mention the expense. Their system lowers the vehicle at several different speeds to improve the handling, control and safety of the vehicle. Off road is another story but it’s still very capable with almost 10inches of clearance and the ability to wade through 24” of water.

Great idea but difficult to implement cost effectively and correctly. The VX was designed to be cross functional and track to Moab has proven itself well. Any change will affect that ability to do both well just like changing tires - one set can’t do everything well.

[BigMeatVX]

I have been researching this for a while now...

So far, besides Airock Suspensions (mostly Jeep stuff),
I've found a decent rear air system that is available for the trooper. (keeps stock springs in place)
And, another site that actually lists an application for the VX!!!!!!!;Db;
When aired down (5 PSI) there is no change in stock handleing (according to the manufacture) and you can air them up to 80-100PSI!!! AND they can be independently ajustable! So on a steep side hill situation, you could "air-up" the low side and get through easier.
With the onboard compressor they offer, you could have the whole setup controlled from inside the cockpit

For the front, a set of Monroe or Gabriel Hi-jackers air shocks could be set up to work independtly of each other, or cross-linked for much better articulation...Dual air shocks per wheel would give more controll and more lift...

In stock form, the VX has soft rear springs, and way more down-travel than up-travel front and rear...this allows the an air suspension to work well in the rear because of the preload the spring is under.

And because you can raise the ride height and still have enough down-travel left to keep the ride comfortable

I plan on getting both and then modifying the mounts with spacers to get more lift....I will let everyone know how it goes...

Here are some links to there sites:

http://www.airliftcompany.com
http://www.ride-rite.com


Allan

[MrCrowley]

If you are lifting and airloading, dont do the spacers. With the longer Trooper OME 912's you will have more travel instead of just spacing it with stock travel. The only difficult part would be finding a longer airbag to insert into it. This is a trooper spring so a Trooper rear airbag should fit (Trooper and VX carry same size except height). Does anyone know if the VX and Trooper have different part #'s or do they list the airbag specifications? This would reveal all- plus a mucho adjustability advantage with the airbag. As far as the front- we dont have a coil. How do they airbag the front of an Isuzu with the IFS? At the very least a stock VX with airbag rear should tow alot better for people using it this way. Good luck

[SGT.BATGUANO]

I've been playing with this thought also. Been thinking about replacing the rear springs with air springs, not air bags. Airbags go inside existing springs, air SPRINGS replace the coil springs. Air springs are also very height adjustable, unlike airbags, which are really just for increasing load capacity. From what I understand, brackets would have to be fabbed for the front , due to the torsion bar suspension. I have seen front airspring kits available for other trucks with front torsion bar suspension. In-cab Independent corner control is available for the springs/bags/shocks. I don't know how handling would be affected if kept at stock height with stock shock absorbers, but I would think it should be minimal. I would also think that some ride/ stiffness control could be achieved with a relief valve or two (on-road and off-road settings, manually activated through solenoids) combined with a supplemental reserve tank, which would cause the on-board air compressor to cycle less often after larger bumps and also to "dampen" the springrate of the airbags. Unfortunately, I know very little about springrate comparison between coil springs and airsprings, other than the fact that airsprings are used on the rear of semi-tractor- trucks.

As far as front and/or rear airshocks go, I would think that it's feasible to fabricate brackets to tandem-mount the airshocks with our stock shocks and springs and also incorporate the above mentioned relief system to allow for some damping, so that the ride is not so bouncy at higher inflation levels.

I am really intrigued by the thought of having on-road and off-road ride height profiles available to minimize the cv-joint and other wear problems associated with full-time lifts.


Overcoming the front suspension mounting is the major obstacle for either of the choices.

It seems doable, who's gonna be the guinea pig?

[SGT.BATGUANO]

ttt

[BigMeatVX]

They DO make an IFS air bag that replaces the front bump stop!!!
But I like the idea of cross linked air shocks better my self...

Allan

[BigMeatVX]

Originally posted by MrCrowley
If you are lifting and airloading, dont do the spacers. With the longer Trooper OME 912's you will have more travel instead of just spacing it with stock travel. The only difficult part would be finding a longer airbag to insert into it. This is a trooper spring so a Trooper rear airbag should fit (Trooper and VX carry same size except height). Does anyone know if the VX and Trooper have different part #'s or do they list the airbag specifications? This would reveal all- plus a mucho adjustability advantage with the airbag. As far as the front- we dont have a coil. How do they airbag the front of an Isuzu with the IFS? At the very least a stock VX with airbag rear should tow alot better for people using it this way. Good luck

Sorry, but OME 912 DO NOT give you more travel!!!!
they just change the ride height! to get more travel you HAVE to either get longer shocks or trim the bump-stops or both!

The spacer I will make, go inside the spring and only offer a "spacer" for the airbag itself, not the spring.

The Air Lift Co. lists two different part #s for the VX and the Trooper, However they both use the same airbag, and the same airbag is also used in other applications as well.;Db;

Allan

[MrCrowley]

A spacer just changes the height. a longer spring means more height, but also compresses. the 912 just happens to be stiffer, therefore requires more pressure to compress. The shock just happens to be the limiting factor. The stock shock wont extend much further out with the lift, but the compression will remain the same. ie. more travel.

[BigMeatVX]

Originally posted by MrCrowley
A spacer just changes the height. a longer spring means more height, but also compresses. the 912 just happens to be stiffer, therefore requires more pressure to compress. The shock just happens to be the limiting factor. The stock shock wont extend much further out with the lift, but the compression will remain the same. ie. more travel.


You STILL don't gain ANY wheel travel with the OME 912,s period, as the shock AND the bump-stop are the limiting factors...
You could put a REALLY stiff, long spring in there that would sit at the end of the suspensiions range, and you still wont have more travel, period....

Now, if you were talking about commpression travel only, well thats a different story....either longer/stiffer springs OR spacers WILL allow you to change the compression travel, at the same time losing precious down-travel (you will still have the same overall wheel travel, though, unless you change the shocks or bump-stops)

How do you figure that 'the compression will remain the same"
after a lift????? :nop:

As for my VX, I have tried the Calmini springs (Calmini used my VX as the prototype for their lift kit) and I now have jeep springs in the rear that give almost 4" of lift...but I STILL have the stock rear overall wheel travel ( untill I reinstall the longer Calmini shocks)

Anyway, I will post the results of the airbag/spacer lift, in a couple of weeks....

Allan

[Eckstream]

If you think the stock ride is too stiff or bumpy just imagine it 5,000,000,000 times worse. You lose your dampener with hydros. If anything try some airbags. Try firestone they should have everything you need.