Brake Upgrade Suggestions?

[Egwanaboy]

Hey all.
I just got a "hankerin" to pretty up the brakes on my VX. I did a search and didn't come up with much on this board (at least I couldn't find it).
Has anyone done an upgrade? Any suggestions?
Thanks.
Egwanaboy

[johnnyapollo]

Saw these on eBay last week:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6783&item=2423882044

Cross-drilled/vented and zinc coated. Looks like a good deal at $170 for fronts and backs. Maybe we could do a group buy? I was waiting to see how Joe liked them...

I think Dave Sirkin (Cyrk) bought some upgrades as well (search the ClubVMag board).

-- John

[Joe_Black]

Yeah, I'm waiting to see how I like 'em too! Shipping for those puppies was a bit steep at $50 so I'm curious to see where they come from. Also went ahead and ordered a caliper painting kit from Eastwoods so I'll give a review of that and the rotors. Plus I'm looking to do the pads at the same time. After the Ocala meet I began to notice slightly reduced braking power. I've got about 13K miles so I'm curious to see how worn the original pads are. In any case, I'll be sure to post plenty of photos also.

[AlaskaVX]

Hey Joe if you only have 13k I'm sure your pads are fine. I thought my brakes were getting worn at 30,000 then 41,000 and both times I took my wheels off and saw that they were still nearly perfect, I'm don't think I will replace them 'till about 60,000 since I'm sure the SC is going to increase on my wear.

[Joe_Black]

I was hoping it wouldn't be the pads, but I've seen some pretty weak OEM pads. Not typically on an Isuzu, but you never know how much GM influence has been at work!

More than likely I glazed some clay on them while playing in the mud. When I install the new rotors and paint the calipers I'll throw 'em in the blast cabinet for some light texturing to open up the composition.

[Hotsauce]

The Vehicross stock pads are actually Mitsubishi pads and calipers. They match up to one of the earlier Eclipse patterns, I believe its either 90-91, or 91-94.

This means that R4S, and Panther pads should be available, as well as a few other trackworthy compounds.

John C.

[xdfarrx]

I have looked into it as well. Depends how much loot you want to drop. If you want to improve performance then do this...
I had custom made line made at Goodridge in torrance last summer. Steel braided lines are incredible. Brake modulation is unbelievable. They used my vx to spec them for sale to general public. Best mod I did. Total cost was just over $200, installed at my speed shop. Thye gave me a good rate cause they used my car to spec them out. Other option is the all out trip- Brembro has a kit that is a bolt on kit. Rotors,lines, whole deal. About $5000. If you want a nice look you can go drilled or slotted rotors only. However the (stock)dual vented rotors are actually really good from what I have been told. The drilled is for gas build up and release, and the slotted does the same, as I understand.

[Joe_Black]

Braided lines are nice, but you could've saved yourself some bucks by building it yourself. Then again, $200 ain't all that bad considering someone else did it. I wish I had seen THESE (http://www.raceshopper.com/sp_rotors.shtml) before I bought the eBay rotors. Oh well, live and learn!

[Hotsauce]

I am working on an upgrade to use PBR 2 piston calipers(corvette) on stock front rotors. I'll post the info when I'm happy with how it works.

Out of liability concerns I will NOT be offering a kit, just posting the information on what I did.

John C.

[VehiX]

Originally posted by Hotsauce
I am working on an upgrade to use PBR 2 piston calipers(corvette) on stock front rotors. I'll post the info when I'm happy with how it works.

Out of liability concerns I will NOT be offering a kit, just posting the information on what I did.

John C.

Isn't it more suitable to increase the performance of the rear brakes on the VX?

[xdfarrx]

I could of made them myself, yes. The consideration that let the pro's do it was- there is a 'special' T that you have to have/build to connect the soft and hard lines, on the rear axle. That had to be specially fab'd.as they never made one for the VX. You probably know there isn't alot of soft line. As well, brakes+3995 lb car+BRAKES+failure??(haven't made to many lines myself)+BRAKES= For 200 clams. Makes sense to me pony up 200 big ones. I'd rather let the big dogs do there thing.
As far as the performance- totally solid. ABS is more active which is kind of wierd. Much more dive on hard braking. And pedal modulation was much more sensitive.
Rotor and caliper upgrades would be smooth. Lot of cheddar though...good luck on the project

[Egwanaboy]

Hey, Thanks to all for the info!
I guess I need to expand on this question. I've looked at Caliper paint kits, but any suggestions on covers (if there are such a thing) or even replacement calipers with both performance and "bling"?
-Egwanaboy

[paultvx]

Originally posted by VehiX
Isn't it more suitable to increase the performance of the rear brakes on the VX?

Nope. Most of the braking work is done by the front in all vehicles... regardless of 4wd, or 2wd. That's why you almost never see any big brake upgrade kits for the rear of sports cars.

There isn't a Brembo bolt-on kit. Brembo database only shows crossdrilled or slotted front rotors for the Isuzu Hombre and Oasis.

However... if the VXs brakes are actually 1st generation Mistu Eclipse brakes like Hotsauce mentioned... then we're damn lucky. There are a few big brake kits (13") available. Would look great for those with 18"s. Stoptech has a complete kit and is available from Diamond Star Specialties @ dss-racing.com. AEM has complete kits and replacement rotors. Bear has two kits, one with the 2 piston caliper, and one with Alcon four piston (over $2000).

Here's a link to what's available and it has links to the retailers. http://www.dsmtuners.com/parts/default.php?cPath=2_49

Kind of strange that Isuzu used brakes from a 2500lb sports car to stop a 4000lb truck. Puzzling. The stock pad, however, are probably the best OEM pads I've ever had on a truck. The Grand Cherokee I had a few years back had squealing brakes at 10k miles. No squeals from the VX so far.

Misc. brake related links:

www.baer.com
www.kvrperformance.com
www.stoptech.com

[MrCrowley]

Not to hype up Isuzu too much, but I have never been anything but impressed with at least the brakes among other things on all 4 Isuzus I have owned. 88 trooper went to 93000 miles when I did my first tire and brake replace! 93 trooper was bought high miles, never did anything. 98 trooper still in the barn has 70000 miles and still has at least 1/3 brake pad left with nice rotors (5000+ lb truck) and driven fairly spiritedly. I figure the same brakes on the VX will last better due to lighter vehicle weight vs. driving styles. I would definitely be interested in a brake kit for both also. Good luck finding new stuff for you Zoozu's

[paultvx]

Come to think of it, assuming the stock bits are Mitsu pieces, the big brake kits may not work. The lines most likely won't work. The mounting adapter probably won't either since the two vehicles have different mounting locations (offset from mounting surface) in relation to their rotors. But, it'd be easy to CNC new adapters based on the ones included in the kit).

I would strongly recommend that you use a larger rotor though. With the 4 piston caliper + stock rotor combo, you won't see much increase in brake performance... you might even decrease it. Larger pad means more friction and heat. The stock rotor might not be up to the task and warp.

[Joe_Black]

Brembo or Wilwood are generally great choices for braking upgrades. When upgrading calipers you not only have to fab brackets and account for offset, but also need to consider the ABS system. I've not personally upgraded an ABS vehicle but have known a few who have and words like "modulation" and "feedback" come to mind. In any case, any one interested in developing a "kit" would be best advised to contact a rep from the aforementioned companies to get on the right track for proper specs and applications. After you have that, it's merely the relatively simple task of fabbing the brackets and finding/adapting an acceptable rotor.

[Hotsauce]

I really don't like the wilwood calipers, I've had problems with them flexing, and wearing pads tapered. Cost no object, I'd go Brembo, or Stoptech.

I've used the PBR calipers on other projects, and have piston area ratios worked out already. I paid less than $200 for new loaded calipers. It appears that no adaptation to brake lines will be needed

John C.

[VehiX]

Originally posted by paultvx
Nope. Most of the braking work is done by the front in all vehicles... regardless of 4wd, or 2wd. That's why you almost never see any big brake upgrade kits for the rear of sports cars.[/i]

Then why do we come stock with bigger brakes in the rear?

Stock Isuzu VX:

Front brake configuration 11.0" ventilated disc
Rear brake configuration 12.3" ventilated disc

It seems to me, if I remember correctly, you would want better braking power on the wheels with the most power going to them? some one correct me if I'm wrong?

That's why most front wheel drive cars have bigger rotors in the front, right?

I would suspect bigger brakes in front would cause more severe nose dive on a vehicle like the VX :confused:

Does anyone know for sure with our brake system wether or not the fronts engage first or the rear?

I'm Just asking and being curious, not doubting you :)

[Joe_Black]

Good question! Rotor DIAMETER is often an accomodation to the wheel assembly the rotor is being mounted to. Go out and take a good look at your front and rear rotors. You'll notice that the swept area (the area contacted by the pads) and the thickness of the front rotor is greater than the rear. You'll always find "beefier" brake components up front. That's where all the weight of a vehicle is concentrated in a stop, irregardless of front or rear drive. Your rear brakes are also somewhat adjustable courtesy of a proportioning valve that reacts usually to the angle of the rear axle to the pavement, dynamically adjusting the pressure available to the rear brake.

So the wheels getting the power don't necessarily get the brakes. Just look at a motorcycle, double discs up front and a single disc or drum at the rear. You almost exclusively use the front brake.

[xdfarrx]

Correct me if I am wrong but I was told there was a bolt on kit from Brembro. I think F40(??) was the brake package, but it has been a while since then so I could be remembering wrong. Same brakes that were fitted on the supercharged Axiom semi-concept set up that was doing the rounds at car shows last year. I could never figure out why we had bigger rotors in the back either, odd but those engineers are definitely in the know.

[SGT.BATGUANO]

Another reason for the larger rear rotors is that they have to accommodate the emergency brake system which uses an internal drum assembly machined into the rotor itself.

[paultvx]

Just say no to Willwood. Willwoods are not meant for street duty. Their calipers do not have dust seals which means they will need complete disassembly and cleaning from time to time. Not something you want to deal with on a daily driver. Racing teams use Willwoods because race cars are stripped down and rebuilt constantly.

Brembo does not have a bolt-on kit. BTW, Stoptech's caliper is pretty much a copy of the Brembo F40 caliper with some of Stoptech's own improvements. What those improvements are no one knows. ;)

You do want bigger brakes in the front because during braking weight is transferred to the front (nose dive). Because of this weight transfer the front tires are compressed and larger than normal contact patches are created with the ground. So... greater the contact patch means greater surface of friction resulting in greater stopping power. This is why the harder you break (increased weight transfer), the quicker you stop... unless you lock up and start skidding... that's why ABS was invented. ABS allows you to brake fast, hard and without skidding. Other ways larger brakes stop the vehicle quicker: 1) larger surface area of contact between rotor and pad. 2) better transfer of kinetic engery into heat... greater surface area means the rotors cool faster allowing more energy transfer. This is also why race cars use carbon disks. Carbon doesn't retain heat... at least not as much as steel. It transfers heat to the atmosphere much quicker.

In case anyone is interested, Porsche Boxter calipers cost $273 for the standard black Boxster calipers. If you want the red ones from the Boxter S, it'll be $453.

If I had the money to spend I'd go with the Stoptech early 1st Gen Eclipse 13" kit... use the provided adapters to make ones that fit or shaved them down to get the right offset... Eclipse is 5 bolt. VX is 6. So you'd have to get different rotor hats for the sexy two piece rotors. If you contact them, you may even be able to convince them to do small run/group buy kit for the VX based on their 1st gen Eclipse kit. All they'd have to do is provide the right rotor hat... and leave the lines and adapter up to you. Or even someone can provide them with the stock brake/rotor offsets they may even have adapters machined.

Out of curiocity... do we share our brakes with the Trooper or the Rodeo? If we do, it'd make an even more convince case for them to provide a kit.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

Just thought I'd throw this site up in case it is useful or of interest
if the Mitsubishi connection with our braking system can be utilized:

http://www.aempower.com/product_brake.asp