Help I lost front wheel drive.....

[LittleBeast]

So when we were out wheeling Saturday at the Hidden Falls Adventure park I lost front wheel drive. Bad thing was I did not notice when I lost it until I was wheel high in mud and because of not having front wheel drive I got stuck. Not really sure when I lost it throughout the day though, there was never any loud noises or pop or grinding or anything out of the ordinary except getting stuck and front wheels not spinning. On the drive home from Marble Falls the VX was much more quiet and I got amazing gas mileage, but no power to the front wheels.

TOD is fine, transfer case is fine, CV's are not clicking no sounds out of the ordinary at all.

2 things weird:
-no power to front wheels
-when in park (4hi) I can freely turn the front drive line (axle)

So I am thinking it has to be in the pumpkin (the differential itself). Carrier problems or flange problems?

Ideas? Thoughts?

[nfpgasmask]

That sounds really strange. So, you are saying the TOD works but it sounds like it most certainly isn't working, otherwise you would still get AWD and power would be going to the front diff.

Simple question, what happens when you are in 4LO? Does the TOD indicator light up all the bars on the front tires? Does 4LO seem to work? You should be able to tell right away.

Bart

[Triathlete]

Didn't you just have new gears put in?

As Bart asked...does everything work in 4lo? If not I'd have the ring and pinion checked. If everything works in 4lo but not 4hi check the wiring /plugs going into the transfer case. Hitting the mud may have pulled something loose or got mud in the connector (needs cleaned).

[iamironman]

I think it's something in the e-trans, a sensor or indicator, stuck/jammed/not engaging... I tried to say that saturday... isn't it the e-trans that controls the TOD? So that would be my guess.

[crotchrocket]

If the front wheels are working in 4 hi (TOD) and not 4 Lo then it is the drive chain in the transpher case. In TOD the front wheels are driven buy an electromagnetic clutch, in low that clutch is bypassed by a drive chain directly.

If its both then maybe its something forward of the transpher case?

[tom4bren]

My TOD light starts flashing about 10 minutes of driving & I lose drive to the front. I'm assuming that my problem is tire mismatch tho. My fronts are worn much more than my rears.

Hope to be getting new skins very soon.

[Jay Dunford]

Didn't you just have new gears put in?

As Bart asked...does everything work in 4lo? If not I'd have the ring and pinion checked.

That was my thought as well. You should not be able to spin the driveshaft in 4-hi since the VX front driveline is always "engaged" (no selectable hubs or differential). In 4-lo the transfer case gears have the driveshaft engaged not the e-clutch so it will not turn even if it is disengaged in the front diff (something broken). It's a pain to open that diff back up so soon, but that was where the last work was done and where I'd recommend starting.

[LittleBeast]

That sounds really strange. So, you are saying the TOD works but it sounds like it most certainly isn't working, otherwise you would still get AWD and power would be going to the front diff.

Simple question, what happens when you are in 4LO? Does the TOD indicator light up all the bars on the front tires? Does 4LO seem to work? You should be able to tell right away.

Bart

Yeah the lights work just like they always have, and there is no indication that it is not engaging correctly, when it is in 4Hi I can turn the front driveshaft (which I should not be able to do in the 1st place), then when I engage 4lo I can no longer freely turn the front driveshaft, therefore I know it has locked in 4lo and should be turning front wheels, but it does not, and once again no weird noises no popping, no clicking nothing out of ordinary other than it is riding a lot more quiet on the highway and getting much better gas mileage. Oh and I can actually break the back tires loose now, where as before I could feel TOD transfer the power and I couldn't drift the VX, now it is cake to get it sideways while in TOD.


Didn't you just have new gears put in?

As Bart asked...does everything work in 4lo? If not I'd have the ring and pinion checked. If everything works in 4lo but not 4hi check the wiring /plugs going into the transfer case. Hitting the mud may have pulled something loose or got mud in the connector (needs cleaned).

Neither 4hi or 4 lo has front wheel drive.


Weird, it sounds like the shifter is in-between 4-lo and 4-hi and only giving you 2wd. :confused:

I am thinking it has something to do with the new gears put in. I did the install but NOT the setup. I had the rear 4.78 totally rebuilt with the LSD, but the front 4.78 just had the 4 bolt flange replaced with our 6 bolt flange, they did not feel it necessary to rebuild.

My questions since I do not know what exactly can break inside a differential too well, is:

-what inside of a diff (pumpkin) 3rd member can break that would cause no other signs than simply no power to wheels?

-If CV's broke wouldn't I experience some sort of noise while driving?

-Also if the Hubs broke once again wouldn't I be able to hear or notice something?

-Could I infact have destroyed the clutch or engaging mechanism inside the TOD transfer case? But wouldn't the front diff still not allow free movement of the driveshaft if this was true?

-It has to be inside the diff then right? Should I drain the front diff fluid and see if there is any metal shavings in it? Can you blow a carrier bearing? I need to start taking it apart again, JOY! :)


If its both then maybe its something forward of the transpher case?

I think you may be correct. Sigh.....

[etlsport]

didja check between the seats? i lose stuff there all the time ;Db;

wish i could be more help, good luck gettin it fixed!

[LittleBeast]

Ring and pinion shop said the spider gears in the Carrier are probably the culprit, but I need to pull the 3rd member so they can check, yeah :)

[ZEUS]

OK, so hubs locked and in 4-hi - Can you still turn the front driveshaft? I know you said it will rotate but I am not sure if the hubs were locked when you were able to do this... Make sure they are BOTH locked in all testing... it has been known to happen, someone means to lock both but only locks one so double check. If one or both of the hubs were not locked in this test one or both the outer axle shafts will turn inside the hubs although in opposite directions by way of the spider gears in an open carrier. If the hubs ARE both locked and the driveshaft still turns, you can point focus at the diff having an issue with some sort of spline or gear contact... not bearings so much.

When you put it in 4-lo you can no longer rotate the driveshaft. That tells me the issue is within the transfer case where the clutch is no longer allowing slip because in 4-lo you are in a locked mode. So the TOD or clutch sounds like the problem to me since 4-lo seems to work.

If something happened in the diff it may have taken out something in the TOD.
Yeah the lights work just like they always have, and there is no indication that it is not engaging correctly, when it is in 4Hi I can turn the front driveshaft (which I should not be able to do in the 1st place), then when I engage 4lo I can no longer freely turn the front driveshaft, therefore I know it has locked in 4lo and should be turning front wheels, but it does not, and once again no weird noises no popping, no clicking nothing out of ordinary other than it is riding a lot more quiet on the highway and getting much better gas mileage. Oh and I can actually break the back tires loose now, where as before I could feel TOD transfer the power and I couldn't drift the VX, now it is cake to get it sideways while in TOD.



Neither 4hi or 4 lo has front wheel drive.



I am thinking it has something to do with the new gears put in. I did the install but NOT the setup. I had the rear 4.78 totally rebuilt with the LSD, but the front 4.78 just had the 4 bolt flange replaced with our 6 bolt flange, they did not feel it necessary to rebuild.

My questions since I do not know what exactly can break inside a differential too well, is:

-what inside of a diff (pumpkin) 3rd member can break that would cause no other signs than simply no power to wheels?

-If CV's broke wouldn't I experience some sort of noise while driving?

-Also if the Hubs broke once again wouldn't I be able to hear or notice something?

-Could I infact have destroyed the clutch or engaging mechanism inside the TOD transfer case? But wouldn't the front diff still not allow free movement of the driveshaft if this was true?

-It has to be inside the diff then right? Should I drain the front diff fluid and see if there is any metal shavings in it? Can you blow a carrier bearing? I need to start taking it apart again, JOY! :)



I think you may be correct. Sigh.....

[Triathlete]

To see if it is CVs or hubs you can put the VX on stands, put in 4lo, by hand turn front tires, you should see the axle shafts turning. If they are turning that will rule out those parts. Spider gears are probably the next thing I would check. Not positive but if the TOD had electrical problems or something inside was not working properly the lights would be misbehaving or the check TOD light would be on.
If the spider gears broke you might get some shavings in the fluid...but with the drain hole so small if the pieces are larger they may not come out.

[don moore]

now if we can figure out what happend
and can make it do this when we want ,
,,well be in
business

....good luck....

[Ldub]

If it's the spider gears, Matt has some used ones...
https://www.independent4x.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?cPath=107_110&products_id=542

[LittleBeast]

If the spider gears broke you might get some shavings in the fluid...but with the drain hole so small if the pieces are larger they may not come out.
You are probably right, I will more than likely just tear it completely down and remove the 3rd member now that I know how to do it, it should only take me a couple of nights work.


didja check between the seats? i lose stuff there all the time ;Db;

wish i could be more help, good luck gettin it fixed!
Haha, wow, thanks for that, nice play on words :thumbup::clap:


If the hubs ARE both locked and the driveshaft still turns, you can point focus at the diff having an issue with some sort of spline or gear contact... not bearings so much.

If something happened in the diff it may have taken out something in the TOD.
I have stock Hubs, not selectable ones, I did just remove them to replace lower ball joints, but everything seemed to be working fine before wheeling. Yeah I am thinking diff issues, and I really hope it did not hurt the TOD.


now if we can figure out what happened
and can make it do this when we want ,
,,well be in
business

....good luck....
Haha, yeah I know I am not complaining about the increase in gas mileage :)


If it's the spider gears, Matt has some used ones...
https://www.independent4x.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?cPath=107_110&products_id=542

Thanks Larry. I am probably going to see if they can use my old ones first from the stock 4.30s I took out, but it is good to know he has some, just in case mine are fried or if this happens again. Thanks.

[LittleBeast]

Today I replaced one of my shocks on the rear with one of the rebuilt ones from Bruce's suspension, and while I was down there I rotated my tires and greased all the sway bars and grease u-joints, etc, and guess what I noticed?

MY PASSENGER SIDE CV is toasted!

This is acctually good news to me, I am just glad I don't have to remove the Diff assembly again :)

Lots of rattling in the Pass side CV, like marbles in a metal can. I can freely turn the drive shaft to the front and all it turns is the pass side green cup, that is it, nothing else moves.

QUESTIONS:

-should I remove my stock CV and have it rebuilt? Anyone have any contacts?

-should I just buy a new CV joint? It is the inner balls/cage that is toast. Anyone have any contacts for this?

-should I just call Indy and see what they say?

Thanks everybody, I have never delt with a busted CV joint before, I am just glad it was not something worse.

[Triathlete]

Try a search for Grandpa Bob/Green dragon. I believe he has posted about a place where he had his CV's rebuilt. Good luck!

[ironman99]

Howdy Guys and Gals, I'm resurrecting this zombie thread because I find my self in a similar predicament, but first a short story...

When winter was finally upon me up here in the great white north I noticed my VX was driving a lot worse than it did last year. At first I simply attributed it to worse road conditions than last year and that my tires just suck at snow.
Later on, driving up to the Ski hills in even worse road conditions I noticed that driving up hills was nearly impossible, any acceleration beyond a slow crawl on the steeper parts and my back end would slide out, that is when I started to suspect something was definitely wrong. I confirmed it later that day when I decided driving through a 2 foot tall embankment of snow would be a good idea and I damn near got stuck. I stuck my head out the window to see how the tires were spinning and sure enough, I wasn't getting any spin out of the front wheels, not even in 4 low...

Up until today I had no idea where the issue could be, my only clue/suspicion was that I had done some work on my CV joints and rebooted them a month or 2 before the first snow fall. I finally decided to do some more investigation and I just wanted to share with you a short video of what I found...
http://youtu.be/xgEIzTkZO8Q
If you can't tell from the video the right CV boot isn't spinning at all so I think I found the problem LOL.

Unfortunately I don't think I will be able to look into the problem any further for another week due to work. In the mean time, what are y'alls initial thoughts on what might be going wrong in there?

[Triathlete]

Is the front drive shaft turning?

[ironman99]

Yes, the only thing that isn't spinning down there is the front left axle, and front right wheel.

[Triathlete]

Your front end will only have one wheel spinning. It is an open diff so if one side is sponning the other will not be.
Now if neither side is spinning you have a problem.
You basically have to srart at on end and work your way in. Start with the hubs, then cv, axle shaft, inner cv, green cup and then you get into the diff (spider gears ect.)

[Dmitrikr]

look at outer side on video - cv boot at the wheel - outer cap is not turning - hence problem is inside outer cap would suggest to go back to whoever did cv boots for you. look like they forgot to put lockring back in place.