Diesel Swap into 1999 Vehicross

[sleveritt]

OK, so here's a radical thought: what about putting a 4BD1T diesel engine into a 1999 Ironman Vehicross???

My recent purchase has a host of problems, not the least of which is a bad engine. I've off-roaded a 1998 Trooper previously and always envied the Vehicross for it larger power train (like the Trooper) but with the short wheelbase (like a Amigo/Rodeo). I thought this might be a good opportunity to build a stout, reliable, capable, awesome looking rig!

I'm gathering all the information that I can, but thought I would open this up for discussion to the group. I know the engine is heavier (at about 700lbs) and would likely require upgrading the drivetrain (hate to lose the TOD) to a SAS (maybe Dana 44 upfront with a Dana 60 outback with lockers). I'm also liking the idea of an automatic transmission (via the isuzudieselswapper.com site). Gearing will likely need changing. Vehicross has 4.3's (right?)but I have to consider going to larger tires (36's?) and the engine redlines @ 3500rpm with a sweet spot of 1800-2000rpms... Coils? Springs?

I'll worry about cosmetics once the "guts" are figured out.

Pro's? Con's? Advice?

Sam

[Knivx]

Do it then post pics then wheel the snot out of it! I'd personally go a little smaller as far as the whole build goes but thats just me. I'd love to see it done!

If i were building it i'd probably go solid axle up front with maybe a 44 or that custom 12 bolt solid front axle that Independent4x put under that sweet white RS. Well ok just imagine that RS but a VX and thats where i want to end up at some point.:drool2:

Then ya could always just put a SBC and matching drivetrain in. The cummins would be sweet but not sure that i'd want the extra weight. I'd be perfectly content with the 3.5L. But where your motor is bad might as well upgrade. This is where i'd lean towards the SBC.

I say do it and wheel it.:yesb:

[pbkid]

have you looked into the logistics of it??

i think the problem is with compatibility of parts. in order to get the axles, x-case, tranny and motor to work together you would have to change ALL of it...

not to mention the time for fab work for motor mounts and such...

good luck, and this would be a dream to see it happen...

[johnnyapollo]

Do a search on Joe Black's posts RE diesel swap - there's an Isuzu motor that's pretty much a bolt-up replacement. The main issues are with the ECU and TOD.

-- John

[uncle_asa]

I'm going to start search of short wheelbase Isuzu Bighorn with 3.0 TDi (4JX1). It is MUCH easier to use it as donor vehicle, since you can just bolt-on your VX body on it's frame (and yes, frames are little bit different for petrol and diesel engines, though adoptable). The biggest problem will be wiring which is RHD on LHD vehicle.

[sleveritt]

Excuse my ignorance, but was is an SBC?

Yeah, the logistics are to pretty much change the entire driveline. 3.5L Engine is bad (and I found it a tad too underpowered in the Trooper both off-road and on the highways). Hence the upgrade to a more torquey engine. Seeing that the 4L30E cannot hold up to 300+lb*ft of torque, the 700R4 automatic bolts up via the isuzudieselswapper.com kit. Engine mounts are no bigger, just some plate steel and some welding and ta-dah!

From that point on, we will just have to see. If that setup can connect to the transfer case, then most things should work. If not (or the engine is too tall), then plan on a lift and getting a NP transfer case, driveshafts, axles, brakes, wheels and tires... Logical progression.

Any diesel enthusiasts out there? Or am I just trying to cross-pollinate?

Haven't thought about the 3L TDI in the Bighorn (not sure it would be emissions compliant for US roads), but if you find info - please direct me to it!

Sam

[Triathlete]

SBC=Small Block Chevy

[ZEUS]

If you go for a 700r4 be sure you find an '88+. The 700 went thru a lot of development and the older ones are weak. You may already know that. You may consider stepping up to a 4L80E tho if planning on modding the diesel or towing. I think most of us with thought time about an SAS decided the stock rear axle is suitable for duty. Check the specs and you will see it compares with a D60 but you don't have to worry about cutting the axle width down or changing the lug pattern. I think you can still find a 5.38 r&p set to match the gears put into the D44 - check Independent 4x.com. An ARB should be able to be acquired as well, or an Aussie locker (bleh) could be used with an open carrier. There has been a lot of thought and talk on the matters of swapping stuff, from a diesel, a manual, a solid axle, an SBC... nobody has ever made any of it work yet. So hurry up!

[Mrmonk7663]

I would personally have ur tranny upgraded by level 10...they can make it handle all the torque u want. Then I'd take the 3.5 and have the heads potted, custom cams made, forged rods installed and forged pistons with a compression ratio of 10:1. This should be good for a 40hp increase if combined with exhaust and free flowing intake and 0 figment issues. Even with 10:1 cr u could still boost it with 5lbs if using good gas if u still wanted more.

[sleveritt]

Not interested in keeping this engine. Mechanics say it needs an entire rebuild. looking close to $6k for that kind of work. Anyway, it was an OK engine in the Trooper and would perform better under the lighter Vehicross, but every friggin thing on that engine is expensive to repair/replace (like a $600 alternator/generator) or almost impossible to find domestically.

I like Uncle's idea of a JDM source TDI that should work with all the electronics (esp the TOD) but I'm wanting a serious off-roader that will last many years and be built to be bullet proof. That means the engine and IFS have to go.

If you haven't driven a new CleanDiesel recently, you will be amazed how far they have come. Diesel will be the new wave of the future, just watch them come to the American shores over the next few years. They are more efficient and provide the torque for that satisfying seat of the pants feel. (And it can run on biodiesel to boot - no DPF to worry about). The boost for the decade old engine I'm looking at came stock with 15psi on tap.

Thanks for the idea about upgrading the tranny though! Do you know of a vendor that supplies that kind of build up for the 4L30E? I would strech the nose a few inches to get a diesel to bolt up to the tranny - leaving TOD in place.

Sam

[Mrmonk7663]

Hey about the tranny. The company is called level 10. Look at my post history andvi wrote about it a few weeks ago. I already called and talked with the shop too and he said he could buildbit to suit anything u wanted...it's a race oriented tranny shop, I knew of them from the mustang world.

Anyway if I'm reading this right no matter whatvengine u put in as long as u keep same trannybu can have TOD? I thought the TOD was tied into the computer? I would love an LS1 with my TOD capabilities...actually I would love a 5.0 ford even more

[sleveritt]

I'll have to check out the TOD section in that online manual I downloaded a couple of weeks ago. (When I get back home latter in the week.) Perhaps I'll approach a transmission shop locally about beefing it up, especially if I can keep the TOD. I hear the largest tires are 285/60's that fit without lift, how much lift can these things handle before they start chewing through CV boots and what tire would fit that? (Ldub has a vehicle with great tires and a nice stance!)

Sam

[uncle_asa]

Any diesel enthusiasts out there? Or am I just trying to cross-pollinate?

Haven't thought about the 3L TDI in the Bighorn (not sure it would be emissions compliant for US roads), but if you find info - please direct me to it!
According to our guru, 4JX1 is Euro III compliant. I think it might be legal for US roads.

[uncle_asa]

I like Uncle's idea of a JDM source TDI that should work with all the electronics (esp the TOD) but I'm wanting a serious off-roader that will last many years and be built to be bullet proof. That means the engine and IFS have to go.
My point is that first you need to decide if you want state-of-art common-rail diesel or bullet-proof classic diesel without any electronics at all (except of starter :bwgy:).

Isuzu did both (4JX1 and 4JJ1 are CRD, 2.8L 4JB1 and 3.1L 4JG2 (till approximately 1995) are classic), but Isuzu had different frames for petrol and diesel applications, so these engines will not directly bolt-on on your frame, though VX body will bolt-on on diesel frame.

[ZEUS]

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=12258&referrerid=1999

[crossman]

OK, so here's a radical thought: what about putting a 4BD1T diesel engine into a 1999 Ironman Vehicross???

My recent purchase has a host of problems, not the least of which is a bad engine. I've off-roaded a 1998 Trooper previously and always envied the Vehicross for it larger power train (like the Trooper) but with the short wheelbase (like a Amigo/Rodeo). I thought this might be a good opportunity to build a stout, reliable, capable, awesome looking rig!

I'm gathering all the information that I can, but thought I would open this up for discussion to the group. I know the engine is heavier (at about 700lbs) and would likely require upgrading the drivetrain (hate to lose the TOD) to a SAS (maybe Dana 44 upfront with a Dana 60 outback with lockers). I'm also liking the idea of an automatic transmission (via the isuzudieselswapper.com site). Gearing will likely need changing. Vehicross has 4.3's (right?)but I have to consider going to larger tires (36's?) and the engine redlines @ 3500rpm with a sweet spot of 1800-2000rpms... Coils? Springs?

I'll worry about cosmetics once the "guts" are figured out.

Pro's? Con's? Advice?

Sam

Why not just take the VX Body off the frame and put it on a Chevy truck/ Blazer frame with a 4 Wheel Drive DynaMax Diesel power train or a Ford Diesel 4WD? Which ever comes closer to dimensions needed. A lot less work and parts would be readily available!! You could probably find a totaled truck at a wrecking yard and or have them look in their wrecking yard dealer system to locate you what you want!

[sleveritt]

I was working the other way around the past couple of weeks. I've been lookiing at the bolt-on spots for removing the front C-clip, stuffing the salvaged Duramax/Allison/transfer case/drivetrain in there. Of course, I would need to salvage the ECM, TCM, BCM, steering column, instrument panel, and various other modules/sensors.

I'll have to go out and measure the wide of the axles/bodies of said comparison. I've got both out in the garage, just need to have someone hold the other end. (I'll see what my wife is doing.....):bgwb:

I'm afraid just putting the VX body on the Chevy chassis would look like putting a hat on a railroad car! My crewcab is exceptionally long, so length obviously would have to be shortened, it's the width that could get a little absurb.