First post is a sad one - engine died

[rjonchan]

Sadly my beloved Vehicross Foxfire blew the engine Sunday taking my kids back to Joplin - had just bought sweet Nitto's and unbelievable sound system (I believe it just got low on oil). What would be the best/least expensive option - remanufactured? rebiuild this one? I would not be able to do any of the work myself. Thanks for any advice...

[tom4bren]

Print out this entire thread:

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=15156&highlight=axiom

Take it to the guy you plan on working on it & see what he has to say.

[pbkid]

when my motor blew up i took it to a shop and they ordered me a re-manned block with new innerds and used the old exterior parts....

R&R, parts, shipping.....a little under 5k

[Scott Harness]

when my motor blew up i took it to a shop and they ordered me a re-manned block with new innerds and used the old exterior parts....

R&R, parts, shipping.....a little under 5k

x2

[rjonchan]

thanks guys...wish i didn't like it so much...

[Ldub]

something that might interest you...:_confused

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?threadid=16813

Also, some stuff here...

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?threadid=16794

[nfpgasmask]

x2

x3

I would go with a reman block, just like PB did.

Sad to hear about the blown motor. Foxfires are sweet, and rare among a rare vehicle. Definitely don't let her go to the crusher!

Bart

[Mark B]

Good luck on the engine.
Keep the VX on the road, we are getting to be a rare bread.

[Y33TREKker]

Sorry to hear of your engine expiration. Since you're so close to Saint Louis though, I don't know if the St. Charles dealership would be willing to do anything about it seeing as how Isuzu tended to turn a blind eye to this problem, but you never know.

Regardless, if in need of any parts to get the rig back on the road, don't hesitate to at least give Merlin a call at St. Charles Isuzu. He's got the parts hookup, and can save you some $$$ if you mention www.vehicross.info.

[lasturbo]

Is there "updates" that these reman companies need to be performing to fix the "known" issues on the 3.5 especially the consumption probs?
:_confused :?:

[djvx]

Is there "updates" that these reman companies need to be performing to fix the "known" issues on the 3.5 especially the consumption probs?
:_confused :?:


Yes.... can someone please elaborate on this subject somemore. I dont care what it takes-I just want reliability and peace of mind. I think that's what most of us want. Sounds like the Axiom engine doesn't swallow oil, but it is a rare engine to find. I'm communicating with risingsunengines.com as we speak about engines, and reman-ufactured ones.

[djvx]

oh, and sorry for your loss rjonchan, but maybe in the long run its worth it.

[rjonchan]

Thanks for advice - will give Merlin a call and check out Rising Sun. Wish I'd read more information on the site, would have kept a closer eye on the oil usage...

[VX crazy]

Sorry to hear of your engine expiration. Since you're so close to Saint Louis though, I don't know if the St. Charles dealership would be willing to do anything about it seeing as how Isuzu tended to turn a blind eye to this problem, but you never know.

Regardless, if in need of any parts to get the rig back on the road, don't hesitate to at least give Merlin a call at St. Charles Isuzu. He's got the parts hookup, and can save you some $$$ if you mention www.vehicross.info.

Isuzu cant make you check your oil levels to be sure they dont get too low though.....

[Y33TREKker]

Isuzu cant make you check your oil levels to be sure they dont get too low though.....
Oil levels shouldn't have needed to be checked so often on newer engines in the first place. Not all the Isuzu engines that expired took this many years to happen. (And not all engines that expired had a lot of mileage on them either, but since rjonchan hasn't stated the mileage on his engine at the time it gave up the ghost, his case is impossible to classify at the moment).

And it was a design flaw (or actually, a combination of flawed engine control systems) that caused the problems in the first place. Otherwise, Isuzu would have just kept putting the same piston rings back in as were originally used, and people wouldn't have started jury-rigging their EGR systems.

You're of course free to defend Isuzu about this specific issue if you want, but I've personally read too many stories on this site about owners who were pretty much left hung out to dry by Isuzu in cases like rjonchan's. That's not saying all owners who had this happen were, or that everyone at Isuzu should be grouped into the same category, but the powers that be at the time could have handled more of these occurences better than they actually did.

I mean, didn't it actually get to the point that there a class-action petition towards Isuzu being circulated years back regarding issues such as this? That type of thing doesn't usually happen because everyone is satisfied with the service they've received, or that should have been reasonably expected.

[rjonchan]

Mine had 104,000 - I'm not in any way mechanically-inclined, but I don't think that is very high miles. Also have a 1997 Mit. 3000-GT that has 240,000 and still runs great...but I was at fault for not keeping a closer eye on the oil...I luv the dang thing, was about to put the Lucerne nerf bars and try the modified Mercedes grillguard on the front, hope I still get the chance...

[VX crazy]

Oil levels shouldn't have needed to be checked so often on newer engines in the first place. Not all the Isuzu engines that expired took this many years to happen. (And not all engines that expired had a lot of mileage on them either, but since rjonchan hasn't stated the mileage on his engine at the time it gave up the ghost, his case is impossible to classify at the moment).

And it was a design flaw (or actually, a combination of flawed engine control systems) that caused the problems in the first place. Otherwise, Isuzu would have just kept putting the same piston rings back in as were originally used, and people wouldn't have started jury-rigging their EGR systems.

You're of course free to defend Isuzu about this specific issue if you want, but I've personally read too many stories on this site about owners who were pretty much left hung out to dry by Isuzu in cases like rjonchan's. That's not saying all owners who had this happen were, or that everyone at Isuzu should be grouped into the same category, but the powers that be at the time could have handled more of these occurences better than they actually did.

I mean, didn't it actually get to the point that there a class-action petition towards Isuzu being circulated years back regarding issues such as this? That type of thing doesn't usually happen because everyone is satisfied with the service they've received, or that should have been reasonably expected.

Not defending Isuzu.....just stating fact that had the oil level been maintained.....

[Y33TREKker]

Not defending Isuzu.....just stating fact that had the oil level been maintained.....
Of course, although at the time, and trying to at least give a guy the benefit of the doubt, we hadn't known if adequate maintenance had been kept up.

And I in turn was just letting rjonchan know that because of the history of similar failures of these engines, it could be mentioned at St. Charles Isuzu (if he/she decided to take it there) to see if they might be one of the few Isuzu dealerships who might opt to admit there was a problem, and make the situation right. You never know what results may be achieved by simply being aware of that type of information.

[rjonchan]

You're right, definitely nothing to lose by trying...I was at fault for not checking oil level before driving 8 hours, but with a 4yr old and a 5 yr old hyped up on Halloween candy, business calling saying drink station's not working, ex-wife calling telling me not to forget to bring back a single hair bow...well, you get the picture..oil level got pushed to the back burner..I will mention to Isuzu, thanks - Jon

[lasturbo]

Is there "updates" that these reman companies need to be performing to fix the "known" issues on the 3.5 especially the consumption probs?
:_confused :?:

I brought my question up because I remember reading somewhere the 99 3.5 is more prone to the consumption and/or engine failure but the 2000-2001 3.5 is not as susceptible. Just curious what the differences are, if any, and what can be done to improve the engine if it needed to be replaced (ie better gaskets, better piston rings, better oiling etc.).

[iamironman]

Do I really need to trumpet the Glories of a low milage used 2002 AXIOM engine and the MUCH LOWER cost of a R&R with one of these?? You can do this for way less than $5000 (closer to $3k)... Granted.. a reman might be a better engine and if you read all my posts on the Axiom swap and the difference in the pistons and the part number "replaced" by a different/fixed part but keeping the same part number... But is it really worth about $2000 more? Mine is running great, like a bandit and speed demon, and I've had absolutely no problems with the engine... I still check the oil at LEAST once a week but it doesn't burn a drop of oil between oil changes at all. Minor problems with the wiring harness (original), but has nothing to do with the engine swap with the Axiom engine. The harness probs are all but gone... I get little hiccups now and then when it's extremely humid or when it first rains till the engine warms up... like moisture gets in there and causes a lil gremlin to get pissed off at the wiring somewhere... but it's miniscule. You can find a CHEAP Axiom engine here: http://www.car-part.com/
Did a search and there are several within 500 miles of you, with less than 100k miles and less than $1800, (there's one in Arizona, with 60k miles, @$1625, a little further, but your mechanic should be able to get it shipped pretty cheap). That should be, (with the right mechanic) around a $3000 R&R job... shop around for a good mechanic that will do it for a reasonable price. I know you will be happy with the results from the Axiom engine... It's the cheapest most reliable way to go. Good luck and hope you go this way so there's someone else that can praise the Axiom engine swap.

[ZubrAZ]

iamironman, could you please tell if transmission removal is required in order to replace the engine on VX? according to the repair manual from this board and info from "alldata" (my friend printed me out) tranny needs to be completely removed. is that true? Im highly concerned because I'm planning to do the swap myself and, most likely, it will be reasonable to bring the car to a shop to do the swap if tranny needs to be taken off.

also, I'm waiting for the message from Steve Jennes, who currently sells two 1998 3.2 engines that supposedly should fit VX, to get the engine codes, but do you have the knowledge to tell if those are types of engines that not going to have such a bad oil consumption?

[djvx]

Do I really need to trumpet the Glories of a low milage used 2002 AXIOM engine and the MUCH LOWER cost of a R&R with one of these?? You can do this for way less than $5000 (closer to $3k)... Granted.. a reman might be a better engine and if you read all my posts on the Axiom swap and the difference in the pistons and the part number "replaced" by a different/fixed part but keeping the same part number... But is it really worth about $2000 more? Mine is running great, like a bandit and speed demon, and I've had absolutely no problems with the engine... I still check the oil at LEAST once a week but it doesn't burn a drop of oil between oil changes at all. Minor problems with the wiring harness (original), but has nothing to do with the engine swap with the Axiom engine. The harness probs are all but gone... I get little hiccups now and then when it's extremely humid or when it first rains till the engine warms up... like moisture gets in there and causes a lil gremlin to get pissed off at the wiring somewhere... but it's miniscule. You can find a CHEAP Axiom engine here: http://www.car-part.com/
Did a search and there are several within 500 miles of you, with less than 100k miles and less than $1800, (there's one in Arizona, with 60k miles, @$1625, a little further, but your mechanic should be able to get it shipped pretty cheap). That should be, (with the right mechanic) around a $3000 R&R job... shop around for a good mechanic that will do it for a reasonable price. I know you will be happy with the results from the Axiom engine... It's the cheapest most reliable way to go. Good luck and hope you go this way so there's someone else that can praise the Axiom engine swap.

Iiiiiiiiiiye aaaam Iye unnnn mannn
Thanks for not just fix'n yer rig and forget'n bout us. The Axiom solution is not an opinion or an idea. It is a proven swap with "iamironman's" help available during the project.
Looks, and gadgets, mods are all just Fluff. We're all living on borrowed time with these notorious defective engines!:mad: I hate it. Wish I could afford to do mine right now. Makes me sick owning an oil guzzling vehicle, especially for what it cost. Junk engine should be in a junk yard, where it belongs!

[BigSwede]

Sometime in 2000 IIRC Isuzu changed the piston oil ring design to include additional drain holes. This was the primary culprit, although clogged EGRs seem to be a contributing problem too, near as I can determine.

The updated design can be identified by a screw-in PCV valve, as opposed to a push-in design earlier.

[iamironman]

iamironman, could you please tell if transmission removal is required in order to replace the engine on VX? according to the repair manual from this board and info from "alldata" (my friend printed me out) tranny needs to be completely removed. is that true? Im highly concerned because I'm planning to do the swap myself and, most likely, it will be reasonable to bring the car to a shop to do the swap if tranny needs to be taken off.

also, I'm waiting for the message from Steve Jennes, who currently sells two 1998 3.2 engines that supposedly should fit VX, to get the engine codes, but do you have the knowledge to tell if those are types of engines that not going to have such a bad oil consumption?


No, you do NOT need to remove trans with R&R of engine.. I had it done twice, second time being the Axiom engine and both times the tranny was not pulled out with engine... it's a little tricky to get to all the bell housing bolts but it can be done and it ends up being easier than not doing it and trying to get the tranny out with the engine. I don't think the 3.2 engine will fit the VX... I think because of the tranny... different tranny's were used with 3.2 and 3.5... I may be wrong... but I just don't think it will go... bolt pattern on each engine will probably not match up with bell housing on tranny... engine designation on 3.5 is 6VE1... 3.2 is 6VD1... I think... also, the "X" being the 6th digit in the VIN has to do with the type of trans is mated to that engine. When engine comes out of vehicle with "X" being the 6th digit in the VIN UP TO May of 2002, it will work in the VX. I state this in several of my previous posts about my swap.

[iamironman]

One More Thing I'd like to add... On this site I posted previously to search for an engine: http://www.car-part.com/

There have been Axiom engines on here that were $2200-$2500... WITH 30-40K Miles on them... even with that price.. it shouldn't cost much more that $1500 to do the R&R (labor-wise)... and that STILL makes it less than $5000 to do the R&R... $4000-$4500 to do the R&R, in my opinion, with what will be a MUCH more reliable engine (Axiom), is still a great savings of $500-$1000... that's nothing to thumb your nose at... it's still a huge savings... but still too.. an engine with 60k-70k-80k for less than $1800 is fantastic I think... If your realy strapped... there have been engines on that site with 95k-105k miles for $1450! I would think even that would be worth it if I was on a really tight/strict budget of $3000. It's up to the individual and their budget...