Isuzu bulletin confirms oil use bull****

[deermagnet]

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[Gussie2000]

Can't believe this mark :mad:

It's unacceptable this "bulletin" information.

All isuzu engines are almost the same in context & configuration;I can't understand how they came down with this conclusion :mad:


I use around 1 quart every 1K & i can assured you i don;t drive my horse hard in any way,my driving commute is 95 % city & 5% highway i got to mention that i drives around 15 miles on a daily basis.

Isuzu engines are a huge fraud to every one of us,i'm so sorry original owners paid 30K for this crappy engine.

[Solitude]

the ascender and the pickups are Government Motor manufactured

[VX KAT]

Mark- I can't be sure, but seems like I'd seen this info before...so I dug out an older post I printed in the Engine Failure Poll? and printed the "Isuzu Engine Oil Usage Test/Report" there. It listed "Normal Engine Oil Consumption w/i limited powertrain warranty period" for the group that included the VX and it listed that same "normal" of 1 qt/1000 miles... depending on conditions.

How does this new info you posted change or affect that? Or is this just further evidence of them knowing there's an "issue" (!) and tells the dealer what to "tell" the customer?

[BigSwede]

Many manufacturers call 1 qt/1000miles "acceptable", not just Isuzu.

[nfpgasmask]

My VX still drinks like there is no tomorrow. It's just something I have come to live with. But this is good to know and read straight from the horses mouth. You should also post this on the Planet if you haven't already.

Thanks,

Bart

[Gussie2000]

We've known all along that Isuzu said 1 quart in 1000 miles was acceptable. I posted that dealer oil useage report here a while back.

This new document that we're seeing for the first time says that 1 quart in 1000 miles is NOT acceptable in these other engines. They knew there was something wrong on the first gen 3.5L that we have, so they came out with the bogus 1/1000 figure so they wouldn't have to repair thousands of engines.

This is also the first time we've seen that anything over 36,000 can use any amount of oil and that won't get a warranty repair. So over 36K their engines are too old to expect normal oil useage? That should be a major embarrassment to Isuzu.

What does it matter which engine is using 1 in 1000? It's not acceptable in those newer engines and it shouldn't have been allowed to happen with our engines.

That's where I come off.

Mark Griffin

X 2
I bought my horse @ 38K miles & oil compsumtion was notorious;The previous owner did all maintainance on time (carfax certified shows all records of maintainance).
Another BS is the warranty,why a 2nd owner shouldn't enjoy the same warranty period as the original owner ?
Specially an very low mileage vehicule.
As how my mech always told me: 36K warranty for a well reputated car manufacturer such as isuzu is just shamefull & that is what many customer should look at when they were about to choose any isuzu products.
If isuzu,as they state BRUTALLY TESTED their engines to meet higher standarts & prove their quality/reliability/dependability why offers only 36K powertrain warranty / 5years ?

As my mech also said : they knew what was coming when they decide to put this 3.5L engine into production.

Yes,almost all manufacturers says that 1q of oil every 1K is normal,but it doesn't mean that right after 36K miles you engine should be burning that amount of oil,cylinder walls,O rings & pistons should be still brand-new at that mileage UNLESS there's a factory flaw in its design/manufacturing process;My brother-in-law old '95 pathfinder had 340K miles on it & never experience oil burn although nissan's bulletin disclaimed the same average oil burn is ok.
All this bulletin does is proving isuzu's misstep & now i wonder how isuzu being the japs automobile pioneer (since 1912) didn't master this kind of situation long time ago & customers had to wait 'till they built the best fuel engine up-to-date back in 2002 with the axiom D.I. system.
90 years is a long way to go for sure.

[pbkid]

ya, i was gonna say that my integra has 250k miles and still doesnt burn a drop of oil....

[Triathlete]

Fortunately I don't have an oil use problem in my VX (knock on wood:smack:).
But, I find it hard to believe that any auto manufacturer would find it "acceptable" for a vehicle to not make it between oil changes without having to top off 3/4 of its oil capacity.:mady:

[circmand]

X 2
I bought my horse @ 38K miles & oil compsumtion was notorious;The previous owner did all maintainance on time (carfax certified shows all records of maintainance).
Another BS is the warranty,why a 2nd owner shouldn't enjoy the same warranty period as the original owner ?
Specially an very low mileage vehicule.
As how my mech always told me: 36K warranty for a well reputated car manufacturer such as isuzu is just shamefull & that is what many customer should look at when they were about to choose any isuzu products.
If isuzu,as they state BRUTALLY TESTED their engines to meet higher standarts & prove their quality/reliability/dependability why offers only 36K powertrain warranty / 5years ?

As my mech also said : they knew what was coming when they decide to put this 3.5L engine into production.

Yes,almost all manufacturers says that 1q of oil every 1K is normal,but it doesn't mean that right after 36K miles you engine should be burning that amount of oil,cylinder walls,O rings & pistons should be still brand-new at that mileage UNLESS there's a factory flaw in its design/manufacturing process;My brother-in-law old '95 pathfinder had 340K miles on it & never experience oil burn although nissan's bulletin disclaimed the same average oil burn is ok.
All this bulletin does is proving isuzu's misstep & now i wonder how isuzu being the japs automobile pioneer (since 1912) didn't master this kind of situation long time ago & customers had to wait 'till they built the best fuel engine up-to-date back in 2002 with the axiom D.I. system.
90 years is a long way to go for sure.

10 year 120000 limited powertrain
72 month 100000 anti coorosion
36 month 50000 mile limited warranty

[Triathlete]

I think IF my VX ever dies a full 'yota drivetrain might just slip in there nicely. And no worry about finding parts!

[pbkid]

BTW, I've never hated Isuzu at any time. I love my VX and my engine.
x2

If I was one of those who lost an engine after losing a damaging amount of oil in just 2000-3000 miles, then I'd be boiling mad.
ya, it does kinda suck....

Mark


I think IF my VX ever dies a full 'yota drivetrain might just slip in there nicely. And no worry about finding parts!
that was always my plan for my VX ultimately. especially because you could easily get SAS parts for toyota stuff....

[Marlin]

that was always my plan for my VX ultimately. especially because you could easily get SAS parts for toyota stuff....

You might be able to throw some nice FJ cruiser parts in there............................................. ...................:bgwb: That was for Zeus:)

[Marlin]

I think IF my VX ever dies a full 'yota drivetrain might just slip in there nicely. And no worry about finding parts!

I was thinking about parts from a Saturn, I am a glutton for vehicle manufacturers that no longer exist...:) Maybe some nice Daewoo axles?

[Ldub]

I was thinking about parts from a Saturn, I am a glutton for vehicle manufacturers that no longer exist...:) Maybe some nice Daewoo axles?

Yugo might be good for you...:thumbup:

[DarkWing]

I wish my V only drank 1qt. in 1K mi. I check every fill up, about 270 - 300 Miles, and I have to add each time. I'll empty a 5qt. container of 5W30 Full Synthetic every 3000 miles.

[TheGanzman]

I always feel sheepish when I mention that my 61K mile 2001 VX uses ZERO oil between 5K (synthetic) oil changes - kinda makes me feel "guilty" that I'm not having this problem!;)

Big Swede, I hope you don't mind me quoting your post from another oil consumption-related thread:

"Sometime in 2000 IIRC Isuzu changed the piston oil ring design to include additional drain holes. This was the primary culprit, although clogged EGRs seem to be a contributing problem too, near as I can determine.

The updated design can be identified by a screw-in PCV valve, as opposed to a push-in design earlier..."

This got me curious, so I went out and checked mine. Unless it was changed, mine is (still) a push-in PCV valve (it's an Isuzu P/N/# too), for the record...

[lasturbo]

So after reviewing this whole thread again, there is nothing you can do to stop the consumption (additives etc.) and just keep it "topped up" at the interval your VX consumes? What is the cause? Oil passages, rings? There was mention of a ring change in MY(Model Year) 2000 which may explain the later models not using as much as MY 1999. Also, if the EGR was clogged, I would think that would throw a check engine light fault as well. Deermagnet, Darkwing and Nfpgasmask-What is your consumption? Mine is 1 quart in 500 miles using Castrol Synthetic 5w-30. I am sure the thinner oil does not help and I do not abuse the vehicle. I change the PCV every 1000 miles and change the oil every 5000 miles. The tailpipe does have some soot on it but I figured with 142k, just keep topping it up and it should keep running!!

[nfpgasmask]

Nfpgasmask-What is your consumption? Mine is 1 quart in 500 miles using Castrol Synthetic 5w-30.

Yeah, sounds about right. I burn a quart every 500-1000 miles as well, depending on what kind of driving I do. 5W, 10W, 15W, change the PCV every oil change, nothing stops it for me...

Bart

[JHarris1385]

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=14049

[BigSwede]

So after reviewing this whole thread again, there is nothing you can do to stop the consumption (additives etc.) and just keep it "topped up" at the interval your VX consumes? What is the cause? Oil passages, rings? There was mention of a ring change in MY(Model Year) 2000 which may explain the later models not using as much as MY 1999.
According to Jerry Lemond and the chart above, the improved ring design actually came in mid 2001, not 2000 as I said earlier from memory...

[Gussie2000]

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=14049

Sorry Jharris !

I don't see how this mod can even get close of solving the oil compsumtion in anyway because the source of the problem is not the oil filter or anything related to it.

Oil pressure is neither the problem,you can have the recommended 4 qt of oil in the engine or bit less & still have the proper oil pressure in there.

As far as i'd seeing the real issue here is the engine its self.
Lack of proper engineering designing this engine is the real issue and nothing else but that & the fact Isuzu had to go sent its engineer team back to the drawing table & spend more money to redesign the entire engine probes it & of course,way more cheaper then recalling our 4000 and + engines ( that's not including troopers & rodeos )

Anyways i did found your idea about the oil filter mod interesting.

[SlowPro48]

Lasturbo, I don't think any of us Average Joes know FOR SURE what causes the oil burning. If I'm reading the chart that Mark posted properly, the Trooper got the 3.5 liter Reference Code "B" engine in mid-2001 but the VX never got the "B" engine with the updated pistons/rings - or whatever the mods were. So the wide variations in oil burning we see on this forum aren't due to design.

Bottom line is too much oil is getting past either the rings or the valve seals (maybe both!) or getting sucked in with the intake charge (.i.e. through PCV) those are the only ways for oil to enter the combustion chamber. Don't blame the nasty EGR - it's role is after the combustion process - so EGR woes are a result of oil burning not the cause.

Somebody correct this if I'm wrong but from what I can gather, the most popular explanation is lack of oil-drainback holes in the piston. If that's the case anything you can do to keep those holes clear and to keep the oil rings clean and free will help the situation. You might want to try using Rotella T 15W-40 oil which is made for diesels so it's high in detergents. And just in case there's something to the PCV theory (which has always confused me because it seems if you have a clogged PCV valve there would be less crankcase vapor/oil consumed, not more) you should make sure your PCV valve rattles every time you change the oil.

[nfpgasmask]

Another thing I have always wondered (maybe worthy of another poll) is if the folks who have more oil burning issues are on synthetic and not standard oil. I often wonder if the oil burning is a result of using synthetic oil.

Bart

[SlowPro48]

You know, you might be on to something there. One of my motorcycles is an oil burner - it's a known issue - Yamaha bored the cylinders slightly oval - whoops! This makes for lots of blow-by so I use Rotella to keep things as clean as possible - especially the rings - stuck rings would only make the situation worse. That's right - diesel spec oil in a 12,000 rpm engine. Well one day I got a wild hair up my *** and decided to try Mobil 1. My oil burn rate went up 500%. So back to Rotella I went! Oil consumption went down to normal. Not saying this is true for the VX but that's my experience with synthetic oil and an oil burning engine...

[SlowPro48]

Duly bookmarked. They will hire experts to delve into this and probably get their hands on internal documents too so it would be VERY interesting to see what their research turns up.
.
Ldub might be King of Site Search but Mark I gotta tell ya - you are The Master when it comes to pulling highly useful tidbits of info out of The Cloud. :thumbup:

[JHarris1385]

Oops wrong link...let me find it

[lasturbo]

Another thing I have always wondered (maybe worthy of another poll) is if the folks who have more oil burning issues are on synthetic and not standard oil. I often wonder if the oil burning is a result of using synthetic oil.

Bart

Not only that Bart but the viscosity. A Mobil 1 0W/40 or Castrol 5w/30 and so on would be logical to consume more oil due to how thin it is??

[Gussie2000]

I have been hearing good stuff about rotella.

I'm highly considering switching to this brand when winter is over.

[BigSwede]

My 99 Trooper didn't burn any oil with Mobil One 5W30, but it only had 65K on it when it got totaled so who knows what it would have done later on.

Personally I think the synthetic would be better for keeping the oil ring holes clean, due to less sludge and varnish formation.

[SlowPro48]

Could be. I imagine when it's that close to the combustion process, the temps are high enough to cook even synthetic oil though - and then it doesn't have the detergent to clean up after itself. The main advantage of a diesel spec oil is lots of detergent - and lots of moly - and that's why I use it. It's gotten my old pickup truck to 320,000 miles now with no oil burning - but then I've never tried synthetic in the VX for a direct comparison so all I'm doing is speculating that my VX is better off (from an oil burning standpoint) with thick, high detergent oil. I guess I should try some Mobil 1 in the VX for the sake of science but when I used Mobil 1 in the YZF it led to such a dramatic increase in oil consumption that I didn't want to try it out in my VX. There's a big difference in running low and trashing the bearings in a 13 year old sport bike that you only use for riding around in circles on the weekend and pitching a rod through the block of your main transportation.

I personally think there's more to the story than just oil drainback holes. There are people like me using molasses and doing fine and then there are plenty of people such as yourself who are doing fine with lightweight, low detergent oil. There's some other variable in this equation. Maybe more than one. That's the way it is with my life in general - whenever something goes wrong it's usually not one thing - it's a convergence. I bet there are some Isuzu engineers out there in the world who know what the problem is but we probably won't ever hear about it. Maybe someday one of us will delve into an oil burning engine and inspect it thoroughly before it goes caput instead of waiting until it starves a bearing and then replacing it with a whole engine or long block. It's hard to diagnose the problem via old school methods what with catalytic converters mucking up your visible emissions experiments. In the good 'ol days you could tell whether the oil was sneaking past the rings or past the valve seals by when you saw smoke. If it was a puff of VE upon cold startup (after sitting for a while) but it went away after a few seconds it was a classic sign of oil sneaking down the valve guide. But when that happens in your VX, did the VE go away because it was the result of small amounts of oil that accumulated in combustion chambers overnight as a result of leaky valve seals? Or is the smoke from a lot more oil sneaking past the rings on a continuous basis - and it goes away not because the oil burning stopped but rather because the catalysts fired up?

[BigSwede]

I personally think there's more to the story than just oil drainback holes. There are people like me using molasses and doing fine and then there are plenty of people such as yourself who are doing fine with lightweight, low detergent oil. There's some other variable in this equation. Maybe more than one.
You may be right, it sure doesn't seem like there is a consistent problem for all, nor a consistent fix for those with a problem. At one point I suspected a convergence of the oil rings and the EGR system in some mysterious way, but I know some with clean EGR systems and use Rotella who still have oil burning...so I don't know really.

Too bad the earlier 3.2Ls aren't an easy swap, my Trooper burns close to zero oil. I burned maybe 1/4 quart on the last Moab trip, that's around 3000 miles, wheeling and all. And yes that was with Mobil One 5W30.

[TheGanzman]

Another thing I have always wondered (maybe worthy of another poll) is if the folks who have more oil burning issues are on synthetic and not standard oil. I often wonder if the oil burning is a result of using synthetic oil.

Bart

I was mildly "concerned" about this too - I just switched to Mobil One at 60K miles on mine, after NO oil consumption issues to date on dino oil, either by me or the PO. So far in 3K miles on synthetic, STILL no oil consumption...

[disasterlady]

Hey Mark, thanks for the lawsuite info, I will be filing mine with them today. I have a question for you as VX Kat refered me to you for possible info on parts. I am currently looking for a used 02 Axiom block ( head is still good ) and wondered where to get the pistons and rings and if you knew of BETTER rings and where I might get them?
thanks Julie
disasterlady

[89Vette]

I personally think there's more to the story than just oil drainback holes. There are people like me using molasses and doing fine and then there are plenty of people such as yourself who are doing fine with lightweight, low detergent oil. There's some other variable in this equation. Maybe more than one.

Like how often you change oil? That's a biggie. Longer intervals gives more time to accumlate debris in the oil -- and clog up the holes.

Where you drive. More rural areas with dirt roads lead to higher induction of dirt.

Mean temperature. Hotter areas might get to higher temps where more "ash" and carbon in the oil contributes to contamination.

Brand/Type of oil. Even if it's molasses, good molasses is better than cheap stuff.

Luck. How you drive it and what the exact clearances for each motor measure out. How the rings fit. Parts to have a tolerance with variance.