Ascinder's 1-Ton VX... Cont'd [Text View]

ZEUS

02/08/2010, 06:13 PM

The first post in this thread is just the dialog from another thread that got us to this point. Ascinder (Beau) likes to drop bombs... military guy, don't ya know... the latest bomb he deuced is that of swapping 1-ton GM drivetrain bits into his IronMan VX...

Ascinder - I'm currently stuffing a 6.0L 364 in mine:evil:

Zeus - The GM 6.0?! That is one fantastic motor!!! What trans and t-case you hookin to, Beau?

Ascinder - NV4500 and an Np205. No doubler at this time, but eventually I'll swap the 205 with an Atlas II and that will be that. The best part was I got the earlier NV4500 which has a 6.34:1 first gear. I was originally going with an SM420 with the 7.0:1 first gear which I still have, but the extra gear up top will make cruising a lot better. Plus parts availability is nice too.

The 6.0 has now got all corvette front end accessories making it a bit shorter lengthwise which allows me to run a larger radiator. I also did this mod (http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0705_chevrolet_ls2_l92_cylinder_heads/index.html)which gives a godawful 550 horsepower, the only difference being that I kept the fuel injection instead of going to a crabed setup!!! The torque for that motor is off the charts too. At 3,000 rpm it's putting out beyond the VX's maximum horspower. I ran the corvette batwing oil pan too which greatly increases the clearance so I can position the motor down lower which also drops the center of gravity. I also swapped the timing chain to a double row to handle the increased power. I also picked up some ceramic coated edelbrock headers instead of the cast stockers to help offset the weight penalty with the iron block. Also most of the critical fasteners have been replaced with ARP bolts which really ought to be called "just take out a second mortgage bolts". The tranny gets a new oversized 12" centerforce clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing, master and slave cylinders and a wilwood pedal setup. To round everything out, I also have 16 of these:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/PICT0984.JPG

They are for the dual four links that are hooking up a D60 up front with full hydraulic steering and the 14 bolt rear. I'm going with some heat treated chromoly links which turned out to be suprisingly cheap. Likely I'll be going over to FOA coilovers all around. There's still a helluva lot to do, and I'll throw out tidbits as the project continues, but let's just say this isn't something for the faint of heart or shallow of wallet:smilewink

Triathlete - Ascinder...Build thread with lots of progress pics!!!! :LineWave::LineWave::LineWave:

VXorado - Thats exactly what I was thinking... :bwgy: If you have time, a build thread would awesome

Jolly Roger - If you build it........they will come.......
Can't wait to see the finished product so I can brag to my friends/family about the V8VX!

Ascinder - I will get started on a build thread I guess, but it's going to be slow. I take my time and really stew over my decisions, so don't hold your breath.

Triathlete - We aren't going anywhere any time soon!:bwgy:

Don't know the difference in cost...but, for links you might check THESE (http://branikmotorsports.com/longarms.htm)out!:yesy:

Ascinder - Yeah, I looked those when I was doing my link research. Aluminum links are somewhat lighter than steel, and are basically more flexible than steel, meaning they will deflect and spring back undamaged. The vast majority of links people use are DOM tubing. While relatively cheap and plentiful, it can be somewhat heavy when compared with aluminum. The best compromise I've found is heat treated chromoly steel. It is almost as light as aluminum, and way stronger than either aluminum or DOM. It is actually comparatively cheap too. Another advantage is that if I get it from these guys (http://www.hereticfab.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=hfab&Product_Code=2250&Category_Code=Links), it is just a trip over the hill for me, so I don't have to pay shipping. He's a forum guy over at pirate4x4, here's a thread about these links:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=836035

As you can read in that thread, the chromo links are substantially harder, have almost twice the tensile strength and are a little cheaper($800 vs. $1168 plus shipping) The aluminum has the advantage in the corrosion department, but for those of in the arid southwest that isn't a deal breaker. Aluminum does look way cooler too though:bwgy: I may still go that route, but we'll see.

Triathlete - Out of curiosity is full hydro legal on the road up there? I know most states it is not.

Zeus - Wow, Beau! Hmm... let me get all this out if you don't mind... by all means, question Zeus... :)

How much distance are you going to have for a rear drive shaft with that combo? A 92" wheelbase doesn't lend itself very well to 1-ton hardware. I would give up on the dblr right now - you don't have the wheelbase for it. You won't need a dblr with the NV4500 anyway. Consider the Stak or LoMax if you haven't already - those are the two on my list. The 4500 trans is what I have in my diesel... er, the newest diesel... the stock '94 with the 6.34. It creeps brilliantly... in low range, the brakes strain to keep the truck still. I know builders have always struggled squeezing the 4500 into any rig shorter than the Wrangler... 94" wheelbase. Your D60 is a high-pinion isn't it? The 14-bolt has a long nose on it so I assume you could and may have to tilt the drivetrain to angle the rear yoke toward the 14-bolt and use a CV-driveshaft. The D60 high-pinion should allow for that... however... as I am sure you already know... everything will be extremely tight! The 14-bolt may even run into the fuel tank and the down travel will be very limited because of the short slip spline...

I know how in-depth you can be so I hate to think you haven't already realized these issues... that's what makes me think you are planning to stretch the wheelbase and use a fuel cell. I'm also thinking this will not be seen on the streets since it will be highly illegal. Full hydraulic steering is not DOT approved, fuel cells are not either, in case you are planning a wheelbase stretch and didn't know that...

I'm not saying you can't do any of this but you are a braver man than I so I'll just have to live vicariously thru you! You have one Hell of a puzzle to figure out and I wish you the best with it... you nailed it when you said progress will be slow. :yeso: Good luck and keep us posted!!!

Ascinder -
Quote from Triathlete: "Out of curiosity is full hydro legal on the road up there? I know most states it is not."

There have many here who have asked the same question a great many times. From what I have read and talked to people about, it's a bit of a grey area, yet there isn't anything specifically prohibiting you from running it, DOT legal or not. The guys here running it that have been pulled over have yet to get a ticket for it, and usually the police are more interested in checking out their rigs than writing them up. A great many officers wouldn't even know the difference between that and the steering on the lifted fullsize trucks with three steering dampers on them anyways, plus, I have a trick up my sleeve called out of sight, out of mind. I plan on running the steering reversed of how you typically set up a hydro system. My D60 is actually a drivers side drop(ford style), but the weird thing is unlike the ford style D60's most are familiar with, it's actually a low pinion setup which lets me sit the ram up above the pinion and behind the differential out of site. It will also be shrouded by the front four link brackets, rod ends, and links, not to mention the tires. Pretty slick if I do say so myself:bgwo:.

Quote From Zeus: "How much distance are you going to have for a rear drive shaft with that combo? A 92" wheelbase doesn't lend itself very well to 1-ton hardware. I would give up on the dblr right now - you don't have the wheelbase for it. You won't need a dblr with the NV4500 anyway. Consider the Stak or LoMax if you haven't already - those are the two on my list."

Well, seeing as how the NV4500 and the NP205 are a full 5" shorter than the VX's transmission and transfer case I'm in good shape for the driveshaft. I was planning on a high angle unit anyways, since I may get ballsy and hack out the firewall like this guy (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=450595&page=7) did-freakin awesome!! It would push the engine and tranny's CGs back between the wheels for awesome weight distribution and balance. I was also toying with extending the wheelbase when I link it, but as Bart and I have had many discussions about, that kind of thing must be done with a gentle touch so you don't end up making the beautiful VX into a hillbilly bumpkin mobile that looks like a pepsi can got thrown in a blender. In other words, preserving the overall look of the VX is a big consideration when deciding to hack up cladding and body panels for the sake of wheelbase.
The doubler was goin to be more of a future addon since it would be considerable additional expense. I haven't looked really hard into the STAK or lowmax that much, but that's mostly because I had found pretty much what I wanted in the Atlas II. Any reason that unit didn't make your list? I've heard they are supposed to be pretty good. The atlas would occupy the same space as the NP 205, so I'd still be looking good driveline wise.
As for the 14 bolt hitting the gas tank, that thing is getting ripped out so I have the travel you mentioned. I was thinking about a fuel cell initially, but I am going to start looking for alternatives. That was actually one of the things I have been mulling over lately. I may look into small car or truck tanks and play with alternative shapes. The VX is a great vehicle to mod specifically because no one really knows what they look like from the factory which gives a lot of leeway with the law, so if you make it look stock, who's to say it's not?(law enforcement forum members, forget you heard the last sentence:yesgray:)

So, as mentioned earlier in this post, the D60 being a low pinion unit will be a bit of a PITA, but it's something I'll have to work around since I got it for $200 instead of nearly $1200. Since the 60 and the 14 are both low pinion, I will likely end up with CV shafts on both. Which means more of a flat transfer case mounting setup rather than angled.
The steering was also addressed earlier in the post, and due to the nature of the drastic level of mods going on in the engine compartment, I thought it best to loose the stock steering setup. Being a four link front also brings the added issues of bumpsteer running a stock style or longarm steering setup. Full hydro makes steering nice, clean, powerful, and easy to run. Plus you can't run a panhard bar with a four link because it binds, so that's totally out of the question.

As for driving on the streets, hell yes I plan to. There really isn't anything making this rig dangerous that I can see. When the steering valve is properly set up, there's no reason to worry about hydro steering. It's every bit as safe as manual or power steering, if not more so due to the oversize components being used. One of the big hurdles I do have to jump is the engine swap. Nevada requires it to have all stock emissions equipment from the donor vehicle and the recipient vehicle, so that will be fun. Also its first SMOG check must be done at the state facility where they also inspect the engine installation. I talked to the guys there and they seem pretty savvy, but fair, and generally good natured in helping you, so I'll have to hope for the best.
Also, I really do appreciate the replys. They help give me a sounding board for all my whackjob ideas and help me consider other options or ideas I may have overlooked.

ZEUS

02/08/2010, 06:43 PM

The Atlas is no doubt a great t-case... my projects lately tho are ranging from a '94 3/4-ton GMC Sierra up to a 1-1/4 ton M1008 CUCV - both use a Detroit diesel. BIG SMELLY TRUCKS! Your VX will be no light-weight when all is said and done but my trucks are far different.

Look at the beef in the bottom two pics in this LINK (http://www.highangledriveline.com/jb_205lowmax.html). My 3/4 ton is deemed to be my expo rig with a WilderNest camper shell or something like that. I will be carrying a lot of weight. The doubler would just add to that weight and it's not needed anyway. I don't think an Atlas would hold up to everything the LoMax would. Plus in kit form, the LoMax is below $1400 and I have a good friend in Wyo who owns his own mechanic shop... my issue is they have yet to offer it in a driver's drop configuration for my '94. For the Army truck though, it's perfect! The STAK is always referred to by the GM full-size guys... and check out the brake setup at the bottom of this LINK (http://www.stak4x4.com/Transfer_Cases/2speed.htm). Besides, if there is something I learned from VXers it's that the most popular option MUST be shunned for no reason at all! :bgwo:

Triathlete

02/09/2010, 02:26 PM

If your going to go high $$ for the Atlas you should also take a look at the Lovell (http://www.lovellengineering.com/trnscase357.htm). Very stout (comp tested) and air actuated. Can be shifted under load or at full open throttle!

As for coilovers you may also look into the new ORI struts. Much more user friendly (no figuring out spring rates) and better raod manners. There are several posts on Pirate about them.

As far as wheel base. I plan (when ever my time comes) to stretch the front out around 5 inches. Better tire clearance to keep it lower.

What size tires are you planning on running?

ZEUS

02/09/2010, 03:39 PM

As far as wheel base. I plan (when ever my time comes) to stretch the front out around 5 inches. Better tire clearance to keep it lower.
I agree with that, I think the wheelbase is gonna have to grow to around 100" to clear everything... I think with the stock wheelbase tires larger than 36" will smack the front part of the rear wheelwells and of course the back of the front wheelwells. If I didn't have other things going on... well I am tempted to create a Photoshop image of the madness I am seeing.

Beau, feel free to start you own thread. I just didn't want all this going in the wrong thread. Besides, we need to kick you in the butt every now and then for moral support! :bgwo:

Triathlete

02/09/2010, 05:18 PM

I want to see the photo chop...I would do it but i totally suck at that sort of thing and it would do it no justice!

Ascinder

02/09/2010, 08:35 PM

Look at the beef in the bottom two pics in this LINK.

Very stout indeed. My only concern is it's still only single range, where an Atlas II or Stak box gives me an extra gear to play with. Now I won't ever actually need the super low gear stuff, the if you read the Billavista doubler article over on pirate, then you know that that extra gear opens up other ranges for you to shift through which provides a more seamless gear range. That at least was my line of thinking on going towards the Atlas or Stak.

Besides, if there is something I learned from VXers it's that the most popular option MUST be shunned for no reason at all!

Truer words were never spoken:grino: I would be lying if I said I hadn't looked into some pretty out there alternatives like portal axles and such. The problem with those, at least the military ones I've seen is that you have to find a way to run everything backwards.

If your going to go high $$ for the Atlas you should also take a look at the Lovell. Very stout (comp tested) and air actuated. Can be shifted under load or at full open throttle!

Now that is something definitely VX worthy, but since I didn't see a price, I can only assume it's very high. I think it will end up in the wishlist category along with the LS7 motor, and the 609 spidertrax axles with 60 degree steering.

As for coilovers you may also look into the new ORI struts. Much more user friendly (no figuring out spring rates) and better road manners. There are several posts on Pirate about them.

I'll have to check those out some more in depth. I had never heard of them. They certainly look pretty cool. I think these would be absolutely awesome to run and since there aren't any bulky springs to mess with you could always add bypass shocks later on if you were really getting into situations where you needed the extra damping. I will definitely do some research on these. The only downfall looks to be availability.

As far as wheel base. I plan (when ever my time comes) to stretch the front out around 5 inches. Better tire clearance to keep it lower.

Agreed, the wheelbase needs to get longer for the reason you mentioned, but I think the rear will really need it too. Our departure angle is not a thing of beauty. However, as I said before, making it all come together and not look like hack job city will be a challenge, especially in the back where there's more "fat to trim". I guess what I mean by that is that in the rear, you are actually cutting into the body more, where the front you are really just trimming mostly fenderwell stuff.

What size tires are you planning on running?

I feel that 37s are the largest size I can safely run at high speeds. I'm really liking these a lot:
http://www.tyres.co.jp/shop/images/M8060c.jpg

They are Maxxis M8060 Trepador Competition Bias plys. I'm not crazy about the bias ply part, due to all the irritations that come with it, but they have been high speed offroad tested and look like they'll make great crawler tires too, plus, I've heard they're very sticky out here at the Moonrocks.

Beau, feel free to start you own thread. I just didn't want all this going in the wrong thread. Besides, we need to kick you in the butt every now and then for moral support!

I couldn't agree more. Actually, I think you did a great job building up this thread, so let's kick it here:bwgy: I have to say I have been very hesitant about putting anything up on the forum, because, as I've mentioned to others in private, I like to post results, not string people along on "what ifs", "that would be cools", and other such flights of fancy that come and go over the years. I feel I'm reaching the stage where some of this is coming together and I might actually pull it off, so having the moral support and a good butt kicking every now and again on here will set me in the right direction and more importantly keep me moving.

I want to see the photo chop...I would do it but i totally suck at that sort of thing and it would do it no justice!

Ditto, I have been wanting the same for awhile now, but I have no photoshop experience, so I've just had to guess and imagine. Having some concept pics would be awesome.

nfpgasmask

02/10/2010, 03:01 PM

I have been very hesitant about putting anything up on the forum, because, as I've mentioned to others in private, I like to post results, not string people along on "what ifs", "that would be cools", and other such flights of fancy that come and go over the years.

:laughing: Well, if you need some help let me know. I always enjoy this stuff.

And just as a first bit of "encouragement" I would just like to say that (despite it being a million times easier) my Trooper's 2.8 > 3.4 engine swap is totally done and running like gang busters. :rotate: So get your VX back on the road so we can go wheeling again!!

Bart

ZEUS

02/10/2010, 03:53 PM

I couldn't agree more. Actually, I think you did a great job building up this thread, so let's kick it here:bwgy: I have to say I have been very hesitant about putting anything up on the forum, because, as I've mentioned to others in private, I like to post results, not string people along on "what ifs", "that would be cools", and other such flights of fancy that come and go over the years.Yeah I hate making myself out to be an unintentional liar... I am pretty good at it tho, it turns out. Big ideas, little focus. Lots of projects, little use. Sucks balls! That's why I say I must live vicariously thru you. Git 'er Dun!

Ascinder

02/11/2010, 01:25 PM

Well, if you need some help let me know. I always enjoy this stuff.

Sure man, any time you want to drop by and swing a wrench, I'm game. There's definitely no shortage of work to do. The engine/trans/xfer case is just about ready to go in for its first test fitting this weekend. BTW that valve spring compressor was a lifesaver, thank you very much for letting me borrow it.

Yeah I hate making myself out to be an unintentional liar... I am pretty good at it tho, it turns out. Big ideas, little focus. Lots of projects, little use. Sucks balls! That's why I say I must live vicariously thru you. Git 'er Dun!

Maybe I worded that poorly, I wasn't trying to point fingers at anyone at all. I am just tired of getting excited about stuff and then it just falls off the face of the earth, never to be heard from again. I just want to bring something to the table that is real and tangible. Something that says: "Here you go, this is how it's done." Instead of: "Oh wouldn't attaching JATO bottles to a VX be cool."

Here's some pics of where I'm at with this right now, just so we're all on the same page.

Here's the axles going in:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/PICT0986.JPG

Here's the gaping engine bay:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT0987.JPG

Here's a couple shots of the engine since it got modded (yes, I already know the intake is on backwards. I put it on that way on purpose):

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT0988.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT0989.JPG

And here's the "new" transmission:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT0990.JPG

Triathlete

02/11/2010, 01:45 PM

:drool2::drool::drool2::drool::drool2::drool:

"Oh wouldn't attaching JATO bottles to a VX be cool.":yesy:Why yes it would...although not so practical!:bwgy:

Triathlete

02/11/2010, 01:47 PM

Those Treps look nice but for some reason on the competition scene they haven't taken off so well. Most tend to still prefer the Creepy Crawlers.

Ascinder

02/11/2010, 02:36 PM

Those Treps look nice but for some reason on the competition scene they haven't taken off so well. Most tend to still prefer the Creepy Crawlers.

The Trepadors in the Comp Bias category are supposed to be more suited for longer duration use, while still as sticky as a sap covered gecko chewing bubblegum, they were supposedly meant for combined speed and harsh offroading, not dedicated competition rock racing. I think they are more suited to KOH type races and rallying than crawling competitions which is exactly what I'd like out of this project. The Creepy Crawlers were a close second consideration, but, the recommendation for offroad use only and their extreme stickiness hints at lower tread life which is a killer for me since I still want to be able to drive to wherever I wheel.

Also, just so everyone s on the same sheet of music, the Trepadors can be confusing because there are two similar name for two very different tires. The Comp Bias are the first picture to which I am referring.

http://www.weekendhobby.com/offroad/mitsubishi/picture%5C233255216081.jpg

VS. these, which are the "normal" version:

http://guimun.com/fotos/img400_pic2087_producto.jpg_1615.jpg

Triathlete

02/11/2010, 02:54 PM

HERES (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=843818&highlight=ori+struts)a good read on the ORI struts...

nfpgasmask

02/11/2010, 03:06 PM

Damn Beau, now you've done gone and let the cat fully outta the bag! Yer in trouble now, sir!! :D

Bart

Ascinder

02/11/2010, 03:13 PM

Billy, you have me totally sold on these. Now if I could just unload my VX engine, I'd order them immediately:drool2::drool: Without a need for bumpstops or a swaybar, my packaging becomes infinitely easier, especially with the limited space on hand for everything to begin with. So far, parts wise, I still need several major components/component systems. I still need to buy my hydro setup, the cooling system, the fuel system, the suspension links, the suspension bracket/tabs, the driveshafts, and those shocks. It's still a long way to go, but I'll probably be ordering the fuel system, the brackets/tabs, and the radiator here pretty soon.

Damn Beau, now you've done gone and let the cat fully outta the bag! Yer in trouble now, sir!!

Yeah, I had to sooner or later, but look at all this great help it's getting me!!!

Triathlete

02/11/2010, 03:20 PM

For tabs check out Balistic Fabrication. They make some really nice stuff and their prices are not to bad either.

Ascinder

02/11/2010, 04:12 PM

For tabs check out Balistic Fabrication. They make some really nice stuff and their prices are not to bad either.

Exactly, that's who I got those rod ends through. They make a great product. I wish they had some better axle trusses though. I am wanting something along the lines of one of these:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ysTnfvQpzzw/SunR5O9POLI/AAAAAAAAAYM/2MuLx0Y54QU/_DSC2882.jpg

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=410666&stc=1&d=1230072413

nfpgasmask

02/11/2010, 04:25 PM

Jeebus. Now that is B E E F Y!

Bart

Ascinder

02/11/2010, 04:45 PM

Jeebus. Now that is B E E F Y!

Knowing me, would you expect anything less? Overkill is the point at which others balk and I scream "Not enough!!" :yesgray:

If you like those, these are the diff covers I'm thinking about.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=259472&d=1156032049

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=259473&stc=1&d=1156032244

But with the (not yellow) diamondplated option:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=477000&stc=1&d=1257169739

http://www.greatlakeoffroad.com/images/trddiffc1.gif

nfpgasmask

02/11/2010, 04:47 PM

Damn, son, if you finish this project, it will be EPIC.

Bart

ZEUS

02/11/2010, 04:59 PM

Maybe I worded that poorly, I wasn't trying to point fingers at anyone at all. I am just tired of getting excited about stuff and then it just falls off the face of the earth, never to be heard from again. I just want to bring something to the table that is real and tangible. Something that says: "Here you go, this is how it's done." Instead of: "Oh wouldn't attaching JATO bottles to a VX be cool." Oh no, buddy. Are you saying the world doesn't revolve around me?! Kidding, I was just trying to say, I know exactly how you feel... that's why I figured you needed that kick in the pants moral support! ;)

Here's some pics of where I'm at with this right now, just so we're all on the same page.

Here's the gaping engine bay:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT0987.JPG

Dude, seriously, you have the ugliest VX I have ever seen! :smilewink

Here's a couple shots of the engine since it got modded (yes, I already know the intake is on backwards. I put it on that way on purpose): Can you kids say "In-cab air cleaner"?

Alright... I have told Bart like 3 times I want to go to Reno to visit... enough 'flights of fancy'... time for a flight! I just checked and I can fly round trip for about $100! I would have to leave on a Saturday morning and return on a Tuesday tho and May looks like the earliest open schedule at that price rate... Is there a time in May or June that you guys have free to camp out or turn wrenches or shoot projectiles? Or all 3? :) I mean come on, we have the option to work on 3 different projects at Bart's house and of course I would love to be a part of the VX3500! Plus we have multiple crazy guns to choose from to shoot in the middle of the desert! Reno is shaping up to be like my own Disneyland! :yesgray:

ZEUS

02/11/2010, 05:01 PM

Damn, son, WHEN you finish this project, it will be EPIC.

BartBOOOO!!! I fixed it for you.

Ascinder

02/11/2010, 05:44 PM

ZEUS

02/11/2010, 07:21 PM

Justin, come by any time, I have a spare room for you whenever you're in town. I have about a month and a half off right now, so get over here!! We'll camp, shoot guns, do a little wheeling, do a little(ok, a lot) drinkin'. Plus, I still have my HD tie rod's, and since I won't be using them and I never got around to making you any, consider them incentive to come hang out. :bgwo:
Well that's a gracious offer, my man - if I had more vacation time available I would stay 4 or 5 days. But those discount flight tickets I mentioned... they just sold out and prices now start at around $250! :mado: Figures... so anyway... I'll see you on Friday Feb 26th! I'll be hanging around until Monday morning March 1st... There is nothing quite like spontaneity, aye? :p This will be an awesome trip!!! I wish I could assist with the drivetrain trial fit this weekend tho... :(

P.S. - I started Photochopping for ya last night... stay tuned!

pbkid

02/11/2010, 07:34 PM

http://www.weekendhobby.com/offroad/mitsubishi/picture%5C233255216081.jpg

so, beau... you gonna take the extreme offroad 'ghetto' method i've seen of beefing up competition tires and sawzall every other block of rubber off those tires??? :naughty:

give yourself some serious gaps between tread to grab with...

JHarris1385

02/11/2010, 08:28 PM

Best thread EVER!

Living in Louisville, KY area -seems so uneventful now.

Ldub

02/12/2010, 05:51 AM

Best thread EVER!

Living in Louisville, KY area -seems so uneventful now.

X-2...oh wait, living in Fargo was uneventful BEFORE this thread...:yesgray:

Now it's uneventful AND meaningless...:slap:.:laughing:

You GO Beau!...:thumbup:.:cool:

nfpgasmask

02/12/2010, 08:28 AM

MSHardeman

02/12/2010, 08:59 AM

You know what would make 2010 even better Bart?

MOAB!!

Sorry, just kickin' $#@*.:evil:

ZEUS

02/12/2010, 09:16 AM

Justin, A W E S O M E that you are coming to town!!

As I said last night, we have a spare room so me and Beau are gonna hafta fight over you. It's not every day the Lord Of The Cock Rings is in town so I won't let him hog you all for himself!! :laughing:

So, lots of beer, lead flinging and wrenching is on deck!!

:rotate: 2010 is shaping up to be a fun year! :rotate:

BartYeah dude, I'm so jazzed! This has been a long time comin! Already, I have as many trips planned to Nevada as I do to Moab this year! Tis good year, ya!

Here we go... back on track...

Before:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/2/medium/PICT0293.JPG

Proposed Progress:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4007/4350977359_483f07a7b7_b.jpg

I don't know what is taking you so long Beau. So far, I have only spent 7 hours making a 1-ton VX! :p I'm still cleaning stuff up - the shadow sucks! I need to find some hubs and lugs to throw in there too. Beau, is there anything specific you would like to see on this? Anything you don't like or want me to fix?

nfpgasmask

02/12/2010, 09:36 AM

Yeah, I wish I could go to Moab. Honestly, if I had the time off I would be there for sure. I just don't understand how life is so unbalanced. Two weeks off a year is WAY outta whack. It's no wonder people get depressed and become alcoholics. :_huh:

Going to Japan this year though. It's a long time coming. I really think it's gonna happen. We have our plans set to go at the end of October. Halloween in Tokyo! I'm pretty stoked to go, however I will be grappling with the problem of blowing all my vacation time in one go...and I have to wait until October to cash it in. I need to have a heart-to-heart with my boss and see what kind of unpaid time off I can take WITHOUT endangering my job. If I can pull it off, I want to take at least a week off sometime this summer to camp. Of course, if I could swing Moab into that I would.

Justin, what other trips to Nevada do you have planned? That unpaid week off I am hoping to spend in Eastern Nevada camping and wheeling along the Ruby Mountain range. It would be awesome if you could join in. And Beau, if you got the time off you should come.

Bart

ZEUS

02/12/2010, 09:47 AM

You know what trip I have planned... Burn baby burn! :)

nfpgasmask

02/12/2010, 10:23 AM

You know what trip I have planned... Burn baby burn! :)

Oh yeah, I totally forgot...:wtfy:

Bart

TheGanzman

02/12/2010, 12:08 PM

JAMAS

02/12/2010, 12:12 PM

I like it, I LIKE it! I have a similar dream - V8 and a beefy "shiftable" automatic - from maybe a late model Camaro or Chorevette. My design goal would be to LOWER the VX, remove the AWD function, and just make a REALLY quick "sleeper" PUV. Brake upgrades, differential upgrade (maybe a FULL Corvette chassis underneath?) Guys are putting them under earlier Corvettes all the time - I bet a cookie it could be done, and for not THAT much cake either...

ummmmmmmmm......what would be left that would be VX?

Engine Gone
Transmission Gone
AWD Gone
Height Gone
Chassis Gone

Sounds like you just want the "tilt wheel" functionality.

VXorado

02/12/2010, 02:40 PM

I like it, I LIKE it! I have a similar dream - V8 and a beefy "shiftable" automatic - from maybe a late model Camaro or Chorevette. My design goal would be to LOWER the VX, remove the AWD function, and just make a REALLY quick "sleeper" PUV. Brake upgrades, differential upgrade (maybe a FULL Corvette chassis underneath?) Guys are putting them under earlier Corvettes all the time - I bet a cookie it could be done, and for not THAT much cake either...

I like the idea of putting in an upgraded drivetrain (i.e. Ascinder's build thread) but as soon as the suspension in modified to match a car, the VX becomes a "crossover" and not a "PUV." There are very many crossovers and very few PUVs. Just a thought :yesy:

BTW I'm glad this build thread was made, its awesome

Ascinder

02/12/2010, 02:44 PM

so, beau... you gonna take the extreme offroad 'ghetto' method i've seen of beefing up competition tires and sawzall every other block of rubber off those tires???

give yourself some serious gaps between tread to grab with..

If they weren't $400+ per tire, maybe, but the way things are heading, I want to be able to maintain high speed in the desert and on the road, while still doing good in the rocks. I think losing half of the lugs would put those wheels in the thump thump thump category going down the road. These wheels actually do extremely well if you just air them down. That's where the bias ply actually offers some advantages over the radial design that is far more common. Bias ply flexes very very well. Properly aired down these things resemble tank treads the way the tread lugs stack up on rocks. They are actually very similar to the creepy crawlers Billy recommended.

Best thread EVER!

Living in Louisville, KY area -seems so uneventful now.

Hopefully it will be if I actually pull this off. Even I have my doubts. There is just so much to do. It's not even close to as simple as it sounds.

X-2...oh wait, living in Fargo was uneventful BEFORE this thread...

Now it's uneventful AND meaningless....

You GO Beau!...

Well, for all the VX's we have driving around Reno, it's sad how uneventful it is here. It's really just Bart and I now. We're going to have to start using strongarm mobster style persuasion tactics to get some people around here to go meet up or hang out. I figure maybe if I make mine a VX among VX's, maybe some of these local lurkers will get interested and come out of their shells to see. Thanks for the encouragement too, it helps me stay on task.

I don't know what is taking you so long Beau. So far, I have only spent 7 hours making a 1-ton VX! I'm still cleaning stuff up - the shadow sucks! I need to find some hubs and lugs to throw in there too. Beau, is there anything specific you would like to see on this? Anything you don't like or want me to fix?

It's taking me so long, because it's easiest to do nothing, easy to do something, and incredibly hard to do something right. The VX isn't destined for mediocrity, so I'm taking things slowly and methodically for a number of reasons:

1)Mistakes are costly and I'm a cheap *&%^&%#!!

2)Mistakes take a long time to fix and I'm pretty lazy.

3)No one's done anything on this scale before except for maybe coachreed, but he has all but fallen off of the face of the earth. His website I used to reference is even down now, so good thing I archived his build log and several pictures. What I'm getting at is that there is no step by step guidebook for this stuff, I literally have to just make everything up and this is the first time I've ever attempted anything like this.

4)This is the ultimate case of the kneebone's connected to the legbone. Everything has to be done one at a time and depends on going in order for other things to work. For instance, I cant start putting in the front four link until I position the engine and trans and xfer case. If I did, I would no doubt hit things. I also can't start doing the hydro system until I find out where the axle will ultimately end up which is largely dependent on the four link. Do I have general ideas of where and how everything fit together? Yes. But like any other plan, it's only good until the first bullet flies.

>RANT OVER<:smilewink

The photoshop looks awesome. I really dig it. As for any changes? Yes, how about some bikini girls. But seriously, it looks great. I am shooting for a flat tan paintjob instead of the white eventually. But not like desert tan, more like the color referred to as coyote in the tactical vest and gear market. Like this color:

http://www.knifekits.com/vcom/images/kyshcybr_550.jpg

And if you can color match the beadlocks that would be awesome. God, that thing is going to have an approach angle from hell!!

Justin, what other trips to Nevada do you have planned? That unpaid week off I am hoping to spend in Eastern Nevada camping and wheeling along the Ruby Mountain range. It would be awesome if you could join in. And Beau, if you got the time off you should come.

Just let me know when. I can almost always wrangle the time off. I'm an accomplished slacker you know.

ummmmmmmmm......what would be left that would be VX?

Engine Gone
Transmission Gone
AWD Gone
Height Gone
Chassis Gone

Sounds like you just want the "tilt wheel" functionality.

Yeah, that's almost exactly what I'm doing though. I don't see anything wrong with it. How many classic hot rods kept the same engines or transmissions when the were souped up? The AWD is nice, but how necessary is it really? The height I'll agree on a bit, but everyone knows, height is the enemy of speed and handling, not to mention mileage. The chassis I also think I would keep, since a Vette chassis is designed around a body that's extremely low slung, and putting a weeble wobble VX body up there might cause issues. But all in all, that's the beauty of the VX, you can take it in any direction to the extreme because it was designed to handle well(for an SUV type vehicle). We're about to have a hardcore rock/desert machine, why not a street/strip version. I say go for it.

ZEUS

02/12/2010, 03:16 PM

The photoshop looks awesome. I really dig it. As for any changes? Yes, how about some bikini girls. But seriously, it looks great. I am shooting for a flat tan paintjob instead of the white eventually. But not like desert tan, more like the color referred to as coyote in the tactical vest and gear market. Like this color:

http://www.knifekits.com/vcom/images/kyshcybr_550.jpg
And if you can color match the beadlocks that would be awesome. God, that thing is going to have an approach angle from hell!!

OK, just to make sure we are on the same page... what I have shown now is a body matching dish. Would you rather have a black dish with the rings painted to match the body? Or do you like the idea of the whole wheel assembly being body color? Or do you just want the dish to be tan and the rings to stay black?

Triathlete

02/12/2010, 03:51 PM

Are you going to shave that 14 bolt to prevent it from becoming a rock ancor?

Ohyeah, and I like the smooth cover over the diamond plate!

Ascinder

02/12/2010, 04:35 PM

OK, just to make sure we are on the same page... what I have shown now is a body matching dish. Would you rather have a black dish with the rings painted to match the body? Or do you like the idea of the whole wheel assembly being body color? Or do you just want the dish to be tan and the rings to stay black?

I think black dish with rings matching body. But it may look good having the rings and the dish tan. Either on I think would look good.

Are you going to shave that 14 bolt to prevent it from becoming a rock ancor?

Ohyeah, and I like the smooth cover over the diamond plate!

I am still on the fence on whether or not to shave it. I have heard that once you shave it, you pretty much always end up with a leaky diff. which at my apartment wouldn't go over so well. I am also a little reluctant to do it because in the vast majority of shave jobs that are worth doing(in other words shaving off enough to make a difference) they usually sacrifice a lot of the lower bolts which is probably what's causing it to leak. It also presents a weak spot for peeling the cover off, although there are ways to fix that issue. The distance from the centerline of the 14 bolts axle tube to the bottom of the diff is approximately 7". The VX's stock axle centerline to bottom looks to be about 5 1/2". But I am also gaining 2 1/2" of lift from the new wheels ~32" going to ~37", also it looks like on the 14 bolt that there's about a half inch hanging down below the edge of the cover that I could lose without sacrificing anything at all, so really I gain 1 1/2" of clearance over stock. I haven't ever really had any issue running my diff over anything yet, so I don't know, I'm still undecided on that one. As far as covers go, I like the diamond plate, but I think that picture doesn't do it justice. I think I'd like to do the diamond plate with the 1/2" thick mid plating that makes the smooth diff cover picture look so cool. I think if you did a two tone paint job on the cover with the mid plating and bolt ring being one color and the diamond plate being another, it would look awesome. Big bird yellow just wasn't meant to be a diff cover color:bwgy: The other options I was considering for covers are these. They are about 1/2 the price and I'm digging the ribs. But, I also think they're only half as cool as the fabbed covers.

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/images/P/Diff-dana_60_200.jpg

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/images/P/Diff-corporate_14_200.jpg

Triathlete

02/12/2010, 05:02 PM

http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/thumbnail.asp?file=assets/images/diffcover/14boltdiffcover.jpg&maxx=300&maxy=0
Ballistic 14 bolt cover.:bwgy:

uncle_asa

02/23/2010, 10:00 AM

It will be amaizing if it ever be finished! http://kolobok.us/smiles/light_skin/shok.gifhttp://kolobok.us/smiles/light_skin/shok.gifhttp://kolobok.us/smiles/light_skin/shok.gif

I'm actually getting everything together to build another diesel VX. But it will be 3.0L only http://kolobok.us/smiles/light_skin/blush.gif and still with independent front http://kolobok.us/smiles/light_skin/sorry.gif

taylorRichie

02/23/2010, 10:46 AM

nfpgasmask

02/23/2010, 11:29 AM

It will be amaizing if it ever be finished!

Don't worry, Justin will be here this weekend, and with the 3 of us we should have it done by Sunday night. :rolleyes:

:laughing: Bart

ZEUS

02/23/2010, 12:17 PM

Hell yeah! We'll even get the Falcon up and running this weekend too!
Yeah right, I can barely even get an oil change done anymore...

Ascinder

02/25/2010, 03:19 PM

Well, it looks like bad weather this weekend, so maybe we will get some stuff done.....after all, that beer isn't going to drink itself:bwgy: In the spirit of this thread though, the diff covers are on their way as well as a pinion guard for the 14 bolt, and I'm going through all the brackets and tabs at ballistic right now to set up the link system. I am also looking really hard at this gas tank, since I will have to remove the stock one so the links can be properly positioned.

http://www.tanksinc.com/cartimages/prd_lp_37.jpg

It is heavy duty 16 gauge 304 stainless steel. It's only 16 gallons though. Losing 6 gallons will suck a lot, but this new engine is supposed to be quite a bit more fuel efficient, so it might be a wash. I was getting a consistent 12MPG before, so hopefully I'll still see a boosted range with the new powerplant. If not, there's always Jerry cans:bgwo: As far as legalities go for replacing fuel tanks in vehicles, which Billy mentioned was a potential issue, I came across this:

What is a Legal Fuel Tank System?

In the aftermarket fuel tank system industry, there is a lot of confusion over what is �legal� when adding or replacing a fuel tank. We hope the following information helps clear up some of these very important concerns. Be advised that this information is not intended to be a complete list, but rather a general overview.

In order to address the question of which federal or state regulations a fuel system must meet or exceed, it is necessary to know the particular vehicle and fuel system being used. The following information is divided into two main categories, Vehicles less than 10,000 GVW, and vehicles greater than 10,000 GVW.

Regulations for vehicles less than 10,000 GVW
Regulations for vehicles greater than 10,000 GVW
ICC Fuel Tank Regulations
Refueling Tank Regulations
Miscellaneous Information
CAUTION Information

For Vehicles Less Than 10,000 GVW
TFI fuel systems meet FMVSS 301 (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards), VESC-22 (Vehicle Equipment Safety Commission), NFPA 1192, ANSI 119.2, RVIA (Recreational Vehicle Industry Association) regulations, CARB (California Air Resources Board), and EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) regulations.

FMVSS 301 states that anyone who alters a vehicle must meet or exceed the structural integrity and performance of the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) fuel system. A fuel system includes anything associated with fuel systems such as the fillneck, tank, gasoline lines, fuel pump, emission canister and fasteners. In other words, if an alterer adds an auxiliary system to a vehicle thereby reducing the performance of the fuel system, he or she has violated FMVSS 301 standards. An example of performance reduction could be if fuel from the original system leaked because the auxiliary system was gravity feeding into the original tank. This creates a real concern as it not only violates FMVSS 301 regulations, but is also a hazardous waste problem.

TFI�s inboard chassis frame and in-bed tank systems meet and exceed the OEM systems in the following areas:
1. TFI tanks are designed using 14-gauge aluminized steel as a minimum instead of the 22 gauge terneplate or plastic that OEM typically uses. Transfer Flow�s aluminum diamond plate in-bed tanks are made from 1/8� thick aluminum.

2. TFI tanks are fully baffled unlike OEM tanks which have no baffles.

3. At a minimum, TFI tanks are drop tested in accordance with VESC-22. When drop tested, they are fully filled with water and cannot leak. Many of TFI�s fuel systems are also crash tested to FMVSS 301 standards.

4. Tanks are 100% pressure tested. Some are tested using a sophisticated automatic Helium testing machine. This machine is capable of finding leaks with a helium concentration of less that 1.00E-7 liters/sec (leak size of 0.0000000315 in-sq or 3.15 E-8 in-sq).

5. TFI tank systems meet the fastener (strap) regulations specified by ANSI, NFPA, and required by RVIA (Recreation Vehicle Industry Association).

6. TFI systems meet CARB and EPA emissions regulations. We design our systems with the correct emission canister capacity necessary for gasoline applications. GM, Ford, Dodge, etc. all use different canisters with different absorption characteristics. Each TFI fuel system is designed to be compatible with that vehicle�s emissions system.

7. TFI fillneck designs meet CARB fuel fill regulations. We design our fillnecks with proper alpha and beta angles and correct inclination angles for gasoline and diesel applications.

8. TFI systems meet CARB and EPA requirements concerning fuel fill rates. This test verifies that our system fills at a minimum of 10 gallons per minute - a rate equal to that dispensed at most gas stations.

Although the tank in the above picture is not from the same company, I have called and confirmed it exceeds our stock tanks' standards, so we're safe legally. I am planning on running either a Bosch 044 high pressure fuel pump or a Walbro 255. The former is a pump used by the vast majority of pro rally racers worldwide, and in other forms of racing. The latter is also a high pressure pump that is used more in the rock crawling/offroad arena. I plan on mounting either of them externally, with the VX stock pump acting as a "feeder pump" to a small accumulator that is mounted inline between the two. I'd like to get this fuel system sorted out soon, so I can begin to plan the rest of the systems.

nfpgasmask

02/25/2010, 03:57 PM

I think you'll be fine with 16 gallons. I mean, you can always carry a 5 gallon jerry can and that will give you basically the same capacity you had before. Plus, it's not like you will be going on cross country road trips in it all the time, so...

Yeah, bummer about the weather, it was soooo nice last weekend. We should get some work done and drink a lot. Maybe Sunday morning it will be clear enough to take the Troop out back with some toys and spray a little lead...

Bart

ZEUS

02/25/2010, 04:24 PM

Nice! I installed an aluminum version of that tank in my CJ. Mine was without baffles so I ordered two fuel pickups that have flappers. When the fuel pickup goes dry on one side it shuts and only one pick up feeds fuel. I installed a Y-fitting on my high-volume in-tank Walbro pump and cut the fuel lines long enough to put the pickups in alternate corners... no fuel starvation on ascents, descents, or sidehilling. I chose to use a fuel sending unit that has no moving parts and reads more accurately: http://www.stewartwarner.com/Comp/prel/intel00.html
http://www.maximatech.com/products/sendersandsensors

It drops right in and is not affected by the fuel pickups. Finding out what ohms to use and what depth to use are the only issues. See ya in 25 hours or so! :_beer: :yesy: :smack::_wrench: :yesy: :tweed::_snowplow:yesy:

Well, it looks like bad weather this weekend, so maybe we will get some stuff done.....after all, that beer isn't going to drink itself:bwgy: In the spirit of this thread though, the diff covers are on their way as well as a pinion guard for the 14 bolt, and I'm going through all the brackets and tabs at ballistic right now to set up the link system. I am also looking really hard at this gas tank, since I will have to remove the stock one so the links can be properly positioned.

http://www.tanksinc.com/cartimages/prd_lp_37.jpg

It is heavy duty 16 gauge 304 stainless steel. It's only 16 gallons though. Losing 6 gallons will suck a lot, but this new engine is supposed to be quite a bit more fuel efficient, so it might be a wash. I was getting a consistent 12MPG before, so hopefully I'll still see a boosted range with the new powerplant. If not, there's always Jerry cans:bgwo: As far as legalities go for replacing fuel tanks in vehicles, which Billy mentioned was a potential issue, I came across this:

Although the tank in the above picture is not from the same company, I have called and confirmed it exceeds our stock tanks' standards, so we're safe legally. I am planning on running either a Bosch 044 high pressure fuel pump or a Walbro 255. The former is a pump used by the vast majority of pro rally racers worldwide, and in other forms of racing. The latter is also a high pressure pump that is used more in the rock crawling/offroad arena. I plan on mounting either of them externally, with the VX stock pump acting as a "feeder pump" to a small accumulator that is mounted inline between the two. I'd like to get this fuel system sorted out soon, so I can begin to plan the rest of the systems.

Ascinder

02/25/2010, 04:58 PM

What did that sensor setup run you? Sounds great to me!! I guess with the system I'm running(returnless), the fuel can overheat in the rails at very high temperatures, so I have to figure out a fix for that too, probably just some heatwrap.
On a sidenote, those awesome ORI struts Billy mentioned are only available in the ST version right now. I am thinking more along the lines of the DP3s, but they aren't expected to be produced until next year due to machining issues being worked out.

ZEUS

02/25/2010, 05:12 PM

I got the sensor for around $100 but I have seen them as cheap as $70 - I can't find a link to the fuel pickups tho... I might have to scrounge receipts to find info - I bought all that 4 or 5 years ago. Why aren't you using a return line?
What did that sensor setup run you? Sounds great to me!! I guess with the system I'm running(returnless), the fuel can overheat in the rails at very high temperatures, so I have to figure out a fix for that too, probably just some heatwrap.
On a sidenote, those awesome ORI struts Billy mentioned are only available in the ST version right now. I am thinking more along the lines of the DP3s, but they aren't expected to be produced until next year due to machining issues being worked out.

uncle_asa

02/26/2010, 04:55 AM

Amazing Beau!! too cool!!

@ASA, Why not do a Cummins 4BT, or an Isuzu 4bd1t? They're the perfect engine for the VX IMO...

Plus there is a ton of good swap information out there, and kits to bolt to standard Chevy Trans.

Just a thought :D

Just because of short frame Bighorn will be more direct swap donor :) Though, lot of wiring issues anyway.

Ascinder

02/26/2010, 07:25 AM

4BT's are also extremely heavy if I remember right, I was looking at putting one in a 1946 WDX dodge power wagon project awhile back. They're great for torque and good horepower, but if you do stuff like jump your ride at all, be prepared to be making trips to the body shop for a tweaked frame. I'm already very leery of my VX with this heavier engine and the winch and winch bumper up front.

Ascinder

03/09/2010, 04:33 PM

Here's the progress so far. I'm still in the gutting the VX/accumulating parts stage, but at least it is progressing....

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT1020.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT1021.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT1022.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT1024.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT1025.JPG

nfpgasmask

03/09/2010, 04:38 PM

H O L Y P O O P ! ! ! :eek:

Those jack stands look like they did the trick!!! Just be careful, bro!

Bart

Ascinder

03/09/2010, 04:42 PM

The pads on the rear stands are 8" across and are stuck up in the old spring pockets. The fronts I removed the pads and they have a cup underneath which I have got jacked up around some bolts on the front frame rail. I also have two three ton jackstands supporting the sides where the rear trailing arms connect to the frame. Trust me when I say I'm paranoid about VX's falling on me:rollo2:

ZEUS

03/10/2010, 07:13 AM

WOW!!! You go wildman! That's insane - when we talked about how much headroom you had in your garage I had no idea you were going to take up ALL of it! I'd say your just a bit more committed to the task now... :p

Ascinder

03/10/2010, 10:57 AM

when we talked about how much headroom you had in your garage I had no idea you were going to take up ALL of it!Yeah, the funny thing is, I still have about 18-24" until it hits the roof of the garage, but only about a foot until the windshield hits the beam. It doesn't matter though, I just wanted it up high enough so I don't have to weld on my back. I can also stick some mock up PVC axles and foam wheels under there to see how everything is going to articulate and what will hit.

I'd say your just a bit more committed to the task now...
Yeah, committed, that's what I'm going to be if I don't get this project finished:smilewink
http://unrepentantoldhippie.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/insane.jpg

ZEUS

03/10/2010, 11:31 AM

Have you had any breakthrus with the suspension geometry software? I like the idea of PVC axles and links with the rod ends taped to the fake links. Should help you eliminate axle steer upon flexing.

Ascinder

03/10/2010, 12:59 PM

uncle_asa

03/10/2010, 09:59 PM

Just wondering if you considered to separate body from the frame, build whole suspension on the frame and then put the body back. I believe it would be much easier to weld, measure and finally less dangerous :)

Ascinder

03/11/2010, 10:03 AM

I would absolutely love to do that, but I'm fresh out of room for a body and a frame in my meager garage. Justin and Bart will attest to this. My plan is to mock up the suspension under the VX using PVC pipes and the links so I can see how everything works and where it needs to bolt up, then when I get ready to weld I will drop the frame in place and support the body with the large yellow jacks. The trick is going to be making sure I have enough room for everything when it's all said and done.

ZEUS

03/11/2010, 01:07 PM

No breakthroughs yet. I have been trying to pin down what I want to use for my Hydro steering and also been trying to find a good set of full hydraulic capable highsteer arms that have adjustable kingpin preload centercaps. What do you think about this idea? What I want to do is get the double ended arms like these:

http://www.partsmike.com/store/sc_images/products/1317_large_image.jpg

But instead of just getting one short and one double ended arm for crossover steering, I would get two double arms so that I could run the ram behind the differential, and a high mounted tierod across the front. The way I'm envisioning it is that the steering would be somewhat similar to a parallelogram, but one that would pivot off of the kingpin caps not the bases. Does that make sense? The only thing I'm running into is that I really don't like this picture:

http://image.fourwheeler.com/f/9192496/129_0611_12_z+hydraulic_steering_tech+ram_mounting _diagram.jpg

http://image.fourwheeler.com/f/9192499/129_0611_13_z+hydraulic_steering_tech+best_ram_mou nting_diagram.jpg

It looks like the hydro side of the parallelogram would not be a straight line and may cause things to act funny. I think it might just be in my head though. Common sense dictates that if I have two(four) points that are equidistant from their respective pivot points, that all the angles will stay the same-parallelogram style. In other words, as long as the distance(and angles) between the two forward steering arms stays the same, the rears have to match too, so even if the hydro steer diagrams look funky, they should still work right anyways with a tierod added across the backs. Maybe I'm overthinking/analyzing this stuff though.......:confused:I have thought about this after you brought up the potential issues and I think you are right to concern yourself. I'm not real sure of the severity though.

The fault I see in the design is different than what you may have been concerned with though. I see the major issue as this... the linking rod that acts as a bridge between the two steering arms never adjusts in length while the rods at the ends of the plungers have to swivel to compensate for the throw of the steering arms. That swiveling motion would cause a subtle variation in length between the steering arms that would apply deflective pressure to the linking rod. I just created the basic concept with single lines in AutoCAD and in my sketch I noticed a difference of -5/16" in distance applied to the linking rod from the point of center (no steer) to 40 degrees of steer (using 10" arms from kingpin to arm end - so 20" total arm length).

We could get much more accurate with what you are dealing with if you knew the length of the steering arms, the kingpin separation, the angle of max steering throw, the distance of separation between the ends of the plungers, and the location off axle center line to the center of the ram. I hope you know what I mean... The "more desirable" method in your illustration would lessen the degree of severity of the "most desirable" method because of the equal angle of the rods at the ends of the plungers during full lock and seemingly during the whole of the steering motion but there would most likely still be a variation in length.

Remember when I asked you, "Why do we do this to ourselves?"? :p As always, I may or may not be correct!

Ascinder

03/11/2010, 02:17 PM

I see what you are saying, but it just stands to reason that if the fronts of the arms must remain parallel so your tires are both steering the same axact angle, then the rears must too, does that make sense? That would mean that throughout the movement of the tie rods, as one increased it's arc, the other would simultaneously decrease it's arc at the same rate which I would think would balance out. The other issues I am having are that I was reading over at pirate that people have basically said this won't work in theory or on paper, but there are people running it problem free. It's very confusing trying to sort through all the contradictory information. I think I may make a model out of PVC and some plywood to real world test this. Also, I wanted to ask if you saw an incredibly big difference between the more desirable and most desirable mounting methods. They look about the same except the ram is deflected to the right in one and centered in the other. Another note is that most hydro steer arms I have heard of mount up on 8 or 9 inch centers. I dont know if that matters, but there you go, they did mention proper Ackerman angle as the reason for that though. Also the rams I have been looking at are typically 8" throws for ~40 degree steering and
10" for 50 degree if you get the U joints machined. Here's also the prints for an example 8" ram(not the one I'm using, but close enough)

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/surplus_center_ram.jpg

The pivot centers of the kingpins are approximately 53.5" as I assume the forward tierod will be as well.. The tierods for the ram are obviously whatever lengths they need to be to set up properly. Hope this helps, I'm crossing my fingers.

VX-157

03/11/2010, 03:01 PM

Just wondering mate when your done can you come over here and do mine :D

Triathlete

03/11/2010, 03:04 PM

These (http://www.spidertrax.com/products/Knuckles) would be sweet on that front 60...50 degrees of steering!:bwgy:

http://www.spidertrax.com/core/media/media.nl?id=9348&c=407909&h=73408eb1c672861d6494

Ascinder

03/11/2010, 03:22 PM

These would be sweet on that front 60...50 degrees of steering!

I would have already bought those because they are priced around the same as upgrading to forged inner C's and knuckles, but the spidertrax setup requires two unit bearings at an additional cost of $740!!! Unit bearings are also not servicable, only replaceable, so if one goes out, so does your wallet:freek: I was thinking more along the lines of this (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=636579) for 50 degree steering:

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r144/lt1wrangler/DSCN0619.jpg

For $300 for the whole set, not too bad. I could also use the opportunity to upgrade to alloy alxles. This nice part is that they retain the maunfacturers warranty!!

Just wondering mate when your done can you come over here and do mine

Yeah, shoot me a plane ticket and put me up, and I'll do it.

ZEUS

03/11/2010, 05:01 PM

Well, Beau, I'm confusaled with ya! OK, the distance between the fronts of the arms related to the rears is always equidistant because of the design of the arms you are looking at eliminate the Ackerman principle... the "issue" that I bring up is that since 3 sides of the parallelogram are of static distance but one side is not, pressure is put on the tie rod - the weakest of the 4 sides. With what I just did in Cad, based off the dims you gave me, the deflection of the tie rod will be 7/32" or just over 3/16" with an 8" stroke. Because of this, I would say stay away from the long tie rod bridging the arms together. However, with those dims, you only get 31 degrees of steering if the ram was mounted 6" off axle center (which would be inline with the arm at 40 degree steer)! I just cannot see how they are getting 80 degrees of steer from lock to lock with an 8" stroke and an 8" straight arm! An 8" arm would need a 10" stroke to accomplish 40 degrees each way in this example because the Ackerman angle is nonexistent in the design of the arms. That is just what I have found - again, I could be wrong or missed something. PLEASE school me if you find out how they make it happen.

Otherwise, in the case of the more desirable way and the most desirable way - I see little difference but it seems the more desirable way is simply the middle ground between the other two options. I'm going to go work on my Army truck now - it's far more simple!!! :)

Do you have CAD? I can send to you what I have so you can see what I see happening... Happy researching! :p

I see what you are saying, but it just stands to reason that if the fronts of the arms must remain parallel so your tires are both steering the same axact angle, then the rears must too, does that make sense? That would mean that throughout the movement of the tie rods, as one increased it's arc, the other would simultaneously decrease it's arc at the same rate which I would think would balance out. The other issues I am having are that I was reading over at pirate that people have basically said this won't work in theory or on paper, but there are people running it problem free. It's very confusing trying to sort through all the contradictory information. I think I may make a model out of PVC and some plywood to real world test this. Also, I wanted to ask if you saw an incredibly big difference between the more desirable and most desirable mounting methods. They look about the same except the ram is deflected to the right in one and centered in the other. Another note is that most hydro steer arms I have heard of mount up on 8 or 9 inch centers. I dont know if that matters, but there you go, they did mention proper Ackerman angle as the reason for that though. Also the rams I have been looking at are typically 8" throws for ~40 degree steering and
10" for 50 degree if you get the U joints machined. Here's also the prints for an example 8" ram(not the one I'm using, but close enough)

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/surplus_center_ram.jpg

The pivot centers of the kingpins are approximately 53.5" as I assume the forward tierod will be as well.. The tierods for the ram are obviously whatever lengths they need to be to set up properly. Hope this helps, I'm crossing my fingers.

Ascinder

03/11/2010, 05:16 PM

Yeah I have cad, but the last time I turned it on was about a decade ago. I have Autocad 2004 and Solidworks 2003, but I haven't really messed with either. I'll try and take a look at it. People are accomplishing this somehow though, and have been for awhile now, so there must be something we are missing.

Also, I think I found why this whole thing is confusing us: Ackerman steering (http://www.rc-truckncar-tuning.com/ackerman.html)

I also read this guys thread (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=824199&highlight=ackerman) and it looks like that if I run the behind the axle steering(the opposite of his) i would get better ackerman angles and therefore a better scrub radius!!! Also, I think I'm just going to get the 10" ram anyways since they can set the stops internally. I need to give this hydraulic steering guru over at pirate a call tomorrow. He has quite the reputation for squaring people away.

Ascinder

03/17/2010, 05:33 PM

The mailman came today bearing gifts;Do;:D:dan_ban::D;Do;

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT1046.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/PICT1045.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/PICT1044.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/PICT1043.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/PICT1042.JPG

These things are ultra beef, and are literally bullet proof:

http://www.jpmagazine.com/techarticles/drivetrain/154_0708_bulletproof_test/index.html

The covers are the last one in the shootout.:bomb::bomb::bomb::bomb::bomb::bomb:

crotchrocket

03/18/2010, 02:47 AM

WOW!!!!!!

:eek::drool2:

nfpgasmask

03/18/2010, 08:33 AM

Yeah dude, you'll be making dust outta rocks with those! DAYUM.

Bart

ZEUS

03/18/2010, 08:45 AM

Maybe this thread should be titled "Ascinder's 3 Ton VX"!

At least it seems you'll have a low CG... :)

ZEUS

04/20/2010, 09:42 AM

Gotta any updates for us, Beau? :D

nfpgasmask

04/20/2010, 09:59 AM

Gotta any updates for us, Beau? :D

I'm pretty sure he does...:p

Bart

LittleBeast

04/20/2010, 10:20 AM

http://www.geartechhd.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=3&pos=7

http://www.geartechhd.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/drivetrain.png

Ascinder

04/20/2010, 12:39 PM

ooouuu this would be nice ;)
http://www.geartechhd.com/gallery/di...?album=3&pos=7

Aside from the Atlas, that's pretty close to what I'm running. Once done, This powertrain will be nigh indestructable. At this point, I'm more worried about twisting the frame of the VX than anything else. BTW, progress pics inbound:supercool

Ascinder

04/20/2010, 02:46 PM

So lately I have been trying to sort out loose ends and put out little fires on my VX build. I have been focusing my energy on the fuel system and all its inherent complications. At first glance a fuel system seems simple. Gas just has to make it from the tank to the engine right? Wrong. Not even touching on emissions systems, the fuel setup is a veritable nightmare with a steep learning curve and a lot of pitfalls. I'm about to lay some of them out here:

Putting in a new tank, there are a lot of considerations if you are looking at things from a long term completed perspective. What I mean is that I like to step back from whatever I'm working on and think: "Hmm I wish would have thought of that when I was first building this!", and then build it that way in the first place. A good way to do this if you're lazy like I am is to listen to and learn from the regrets/observation of others who have gone before you. I like to listen to desert racers and rock crawlers because not only have they been there, done that, but their vehicles end up in the weirdest situations imaginable under the most severe conditions. So here we go.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/PICT1078.JPG

These are a pair of Sprague aircraft accumulators. They hold 50 cubic inches of fluid each and have a floating aluminum o-ringed "puck" inside that has pressurized air on one side and the fluid on the other. They act as an emergency reservoir of whatever fluid they are set up for. If/when the system looses pressure the compressed air acts as a spring and forces the fluid back into the system. These things are no joke. They are good for 3000 psi worth of pressure and can save you from a spun engine bearing when you are off camber, or from losing your steering if you blow a line, or even from fuel starvation when your booster pump out sucks your supply pump. But I'll get to all that....

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/PICT1083.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/PICT1084.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/PICT1086.JPG

Apart from being fun to look at, the engine has been coming along too. I have installed a lot of components lately that will go unmentioned in this post, but are time eaters that have hassled me at every turn. The original fuel system was returnless, meaning that the fuel pump just supplies pressurized fuel to the rail and it stays there until the engine sucks it down. Well, that's evidently good for emissions, but bad for an engine running hot and hard in the desert heat. Basically the fuel gets heated up by the pump (which relies on the fuel to keep it cool) and then gets sent to the rail where ambient engine heat causes it to vaporize and lock up the system. At the king of the hammers race they were eating fuel pumps and vapor locking engines like crazy. So the fixes were to run a return style system instead which circulates the fuel out of the rails and back into the tank where it has a chance to cool. So I swapped over to billet fuel rails that enable this and a fuel pressure regulator at the engine instead of inside the tank. I also installed 50 lb./HR injectors in place of the stock 28 lb. The fuel pressure regulator is adjustable to allow me to dial in the Bosch"044" racing pumps� output to usable levels. It is also vacuum sensitive so it automatically lowers output at lower rpms and raises it at higher ones. I also have an emergency ace in the hole. I got a fuel cooler block that is powered by CO2. Basically, the fuel runs through it and the CO2 runs through it parallel and chills the fuel. Gimmicky, but effective.

Fuel pressure regulator

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT1102.JPG

Bosch"044" rally pump next to the stock VX pump

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT1106.JPG

Cry02 fuel cooler

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT1100.JPG

So all of this is getting stuffed into the tank mentioned earlier in this thread, which BTW is absolutely awesome in its construction. The steel is THICK. This tank holds six less gallons than the stock VX tank, but is much heavier. The welds are also nearly seamless and are a work of art.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT1122.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT1124.JPG

There will be a 100 micron billet inline filter just outside of the tank before the pump. It has a stainless steel element that is cleanable and replaceable. Just before the fuel rails is a large 10 micron fuel canister.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/PICT1104.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/PICT1105.JPG

In addition to using the stock Vehicross fuel filling port for normal fueling, I picked up an aluminum filler port that will be mounted to the other side of the tank and used for Jerry can refills (which are a PITA on the stock opening). The new port is almost three inches across at the port and around seven or eight inches at the flange, and has a rollover/slosh valve built in.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/PICT1103.JPG

One of the other fuel issues people have is that typical racers use fuel cells which are basically a steel box with a rubber bladder inside which holds the fuel. The problem comes in when your fuel is going all over the place inside and sloshing everywhere. It is practically impossible to effectively baffle the inside of a rubber bladder, but inherently necessary for obvious reasons. My fuel tank has a single center baffle which I feel while helpful, is not up to the tasks I will demand of it. Many people use fuel cell foam as a baffle, but it inevitably breaks down sooner or later, clogging your fuel pickups or filters, or pumps in the process. Other guys have tried wiffle balls since the PVC they're made out of is fuel resistant. They still tend to break down eventually though due the additives in normal gasoline not to mention ethanol, and plastics shed a kind of slime/gel into the tank which clogs pickups too. I had a great idea though. Since my tank is stainless steel and my fuel line is going to be stainless steel hard-line, why not use these little buggers as an anti slosh measure. 100% stainless, lightweight and affordable. They don't break down and are totally inert to fuel and/or additives.

There are 100 of these in the box

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT1108.JPG

Here's one up close:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT1109.JPG

To help with the angles and off camber situations of crawling and high G's in the desert, I got three of these snowmobile fuel pickups. They work on the principle of spraying something like water through a screen door, where the moisture gets trapped in the screen. When they are exposed to air the fuel trapped in the screen makes it so the screen sucks shut so your fuel pump isn�t gulping air when you are climbing a steep hill or are on the side of one. Pretty cool and very effective.

http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/pics/MP_bottom.jpg

The screen is also a 10 micron fuel filter.

Ascinder

04/20/2010, 02:47 PM

I also nabbed a protorque series starter which is smaller, lighter, more powerful, and clockable.

Protorque under stock starter

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/PICT1110.JPG

Adjustable mounting

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/PICT1111.JPG

The oil filter on the engine was changed to a remote mount setup to increase capacity and accessibility of the oil system. One of the Sprague accumulators will also be plumbed into this system to run as a pre-oiler at startup and accumulator during use.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT1125.JPG

I replaced the crank pulley with a 25% underdrive pulley which will give more horsepower, but run all the accessories slower. They make an overdrive pulley for the alternator that I will install here shortly so it spins at normal speed. So what's the point then? Well, I plan on using an industrial equipment hydraulic pump instead of a dinky power steering pump to power the hydraulic ram steering and the hydroboost system. Those pumps don't like high RPM, so I have a big pulley for them and the small underdrive pulley, and presto, everything is happy. Here's a shot of a similar hydroboost setup to what I'm running and a LINK (http://www.vancopbs.com/category_s/66.htm) to some info on them:

http://dieselequipment.net/img/pg_9/p_9_100.jpg

Hydroboost brakes beat the snot out of vacuum assist brakes for a great many reasons, and with a cammed motor like mine, they are even more important for good consistent braking over a large rpm range. My hydroboost is on the way and came out of a 2008 GMC Sierra 3500 truck, what can I say, it fits the theme of the build. Also, upgrading the size of all the brakes on the VX makes this a must have mod. Here are a couple pics of said brakes.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT1116.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT1118.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/PICT1120.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/PICT1121.JPG

The first pic is of the rear calipers which are factory rebuilt with new ceramic pads and painted with caliper paint. The second pic is of the front D60 caliper which I had to wire-wheel and strip of all of the paint and crud, then paint. The third pic is of a 14 bolt wheel hub I had to strip down and paint, then press in new wheel studs and brake rotor. Here's what these used to look like:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/PICT1113.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/PICT1114.JPG

LittleBeast

04/20/2010, 03:25 PM

phines

04/20/2010, 03:34 PM

SlowPro48

04/20/2010, 03:47 PM

You got that right. I feel like such a loser everytime I peruse this thread. All this progress and eye candy... and I'm just trying to figure out when I'll have time to change a timing belt and how I'm going to afford a new set of Terra Grapplers before I hydroplane into an oak tree...

Ascinder you rock man! I can't speak for everybody but I for one am living vicariously through you and several others on this board who are able to flat out git er done.

Alright - back to my lame little life. Trying to figure out how to hotwire a pocket bike for the nephews. Hey it's easier than finding the key...

Carry on, my hero!

ZEUS

04/20/2010, 04:09 PM

Beau, I really wish you would put some thought into all of this... I mean you can't just go into a build like this so haphazardly! HAHAHAHA! Thanks for the updates - I have to admit I am using you as inspiration to get my projects moving again... and my work on AWOL has been inspiring a guy here at work to get his K5 mods going again.

Just think, after you warp your frame - all you have to do is build a tube chassis then you'll be done - nothing to it! LOL

LiquidVX

04/20/2010, 04:27 PM

:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:

Very much nice!

Ldub

04/21/2010, 01:28 AM

Wow, wow, wow. I feel like I am watching an episode of "VX Dream Make Over"!!!!! Amazing stuff indeed. I am pretty sure we are all green with envy, and can't wait to have the means to do something like this as well. Thanks for the photos and update, much appreciated :)

Yes. Exactly what he said. Awesome man! :yesb:

You got that right. I feel like such a loser everytime I peruse this thread.
Ascinder you rock man! I can't speak for everybody but I for one am living vicariously through you and several others on this board who are able to flat out git er done.

Carry on, my hero!

Times about eleventy BILLION...:thumbup:.:thumbup:

GO BEAU ! ! !

Scott Harness

04/21/2010, 07:19 AM

I just started reading this thread!! WOW! WOW! WOW!
I'm going to get in my VX now...WHIMPY WHIMPY WHIMPY

Ascinder

04/21/2010, 11:13 AM

Thanks for all the support guys, trust me, I need it. It's a looong road ahead with this project. I am hopefully getting the new HMMWV wheels soon and all the bracketry for the suspension links within the next couple weeks. I just ordered over a hundred AN fittings for the fuel, coolant,air,hydraulic, oil, etc systems. It's going to be like Monster Garage once the rest of this stuff starts showing up:bwgy:

Triathlete

04/21/2010, 01:00 PM

Looking good. Looks like you are definately doing it right!

Going to have it done for Moab!:bwgy:

RamAirZ

04/21/2010, 03:05 PM

Your project is looking awesome! That LSx motor just makes me drool!!!!!!!

Ascinder

04/23/2010, 03:38 PM

The mailman came today and he brought with him a motorhead's wet dream......

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/PICT1139.JPG

:drool::naughty::drool::naughty::drool::naughty: :drool::naughty:

ZEUS

04/23/2010, 03:44 PM

I feel blue.

nfpgasmask

04/23/2010, 04:22 PM

That's recockulous!

Bart

ZEUS

06/18/2010, 02:41 PM

So Team Venture... :p are you going to entertain us with your latest updates? I got my bib and water-proof keyboard ready!

Ascinder

06/18/2010, 03:13 PM

Sorry, very little progress to report. I've been busy working on the Patrol nonstop. That little POS is being the opposite of what I got it for. So far, I've:

1. Replaced the rear leaf springs
2. Cut off and rewelded the forward spring perches on said leafs since the replacements were longer than anticipated and were maxing out the shackles
3. Made new shackles for said leafs since no one makes shackles for this little "gem"
4. Installed new U-bolts for rear leafs
5. Installed add a leafs to the front along with new ubolts and studs
6. Installed new shocks all the way around
7. Removed non working generator
8. Fabricated bracket for alternator to replace generator
9. Rigged alternator into some semblance of working
10. Measured and ordered new belt since old one doesn't fit any longer
11. Replaced Optima battery (VX's old battery) since it wouldn't take a charge
12. Switched over from the positive ground system to a conventional negative grounded one
13. Swapped out the push button starter since the old one sucked
14. Sheared off the original seatbelt bolts and installed new ones.
15. Bled brakes 4 times to no avail
16. Replaced brake light switch, bled brakes again, still no satisfaction
17. Replaced oil cap with a breather
18. Swapped out tires to some 32-11.50-15's
19. Removed rear swaybar, now unneccessary since shocks are adjustable from anywhere between pillow to rock settings
20. Sheared off front turn signal mounting bolts, also still working on that one
21. Replaced wipers with some that weren't petrified
22. Changed oil and oil filter, bought fluids for trans, transfer case, and differentials
23. About a million other stupid little BS things that so far have amounted to very little.

On the plus side, it's nearing completion so I'll be back to the VX soon.

ZEUS

06/18/2010, 03:36 PM

OUCH! Well at least you got S-10 springs! :D Was the K-5 in such bad shape that the Patrol just had to be better or what? It seemed fine other than no 4wd and back window. I imagine you are working with drums all the way around... any of the wheel cylinders leaking? Maybe try out an old Healey master cylinder? ;)

Ascinder

06/18/2010, 03:47 PM

Maybe try out an old Healey master cylinder?
Well, I actually do have a brand new wilwood master cylinder sitting on the bench that was headed for the VX......but I'm trying not to cannibalize virgin parts for the sake of an old beater vehicle.

I imagine you are working with drums all the way around... any of the wheel cylinders leaking?

Yes, and I hate them with much vigor!!! The front have two cylinder each, and the rears have one each and an adjuster on the bottoms. So far I have only been able to get one drum off because they are rusted in place so bad. Again, I really hate drum brakes.

Was the K-5 in such bad shape that the Patrol just had to be better or what? It seemed fine other than no 4wd and back window. The blazer is a decent rig, but the real clincher for me was mileage. It costs an arm and a leg just to drive it around town, not to mention taking any trips. The absence of 4WD was a PITA too. Plus, the Blazer just doesn't have any panache, spunk, or moxy, as a former VX owner you should know that;Dy;

ZEUS

06/18/2010, 03:50 PM

HAHA! You have to ADD the panache to a Blazer; that's one of the reasons I got one!

Ascinder

08/13/2010, 07:45 PM

So I just pulled the trigger on these(sorry for the huge pic, I didn't take it):

https://cdn3.volusion.com/frvnx.fatkq/v/vspfiles/photos/MAXXIS-CREEPY-6.jpg?1373614370

I guess if spending money=making progress then I'm doing alright. Billy will be happy to see these no doubt. They're no Trepadors, but the price was an absolute no pass up situation. For those wondering they are Maxxis M8090 Creepy Crawlers of the 37X12.50-16 variety.

nfpgasmask

08/13/2010, 08:55 PM

SICK! Love em, good choice.

Bart

Triathlete

08/13/2010, 09:03 PM

SWEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTTTTT !!!!!!!!!
Are those the regular compound or the stickies?

Ascinder

08/14/2010, 06:39 AM

Triathlete

08/14/2010, 11:42 AM

You can use any wheel you like that fits and just get a weld on beadlock kit or internal bead locks (staun's). Those tires grip great especially if you warm em up a bit.:yesy:

RamAirZ

08/14/2010, 01:29 PM

Get some recentered H1 beadlocks with rock rings, it's a double beadlock, cheap (as far as beadlocks are concerned) and look pretty sweet IMO

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_JE2NengmuSs/SkkyGTZj-jI/AAAAAAAAAQM/PhxVdi0Y2us/s800/IMG_0811.JPG

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/PowderCoated%20H1s%2017/RecenteredH1s11-24-09004.jpg

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/Recentered%2012%20bolt%20Chrome/IMG01206-20100527-1023.jpg

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/Customer%20Rig%201/TW2.jpg

ZEUS

08/14/2010, 02:50 PM

To my knowledge they are regular, but from what I am hearing there isn't a huge difference between Maxxis' regulars and stickies. Now I just have to find some 16X10 alloys with an 8 on 6.5 lug pattern, preferably with beadlocks and also some that don't look like everything else out there. I'll let you know when I get those and the unicorn, leprechaun, and all the other seemingly impossible to find things out there:rolly:
That spec combo isn't too hard to find really. I found a used set in Denver recently for the beater truck for less than 150! If you can find something closer to a positive offset rim you may be able to leave the axles uncut. Diggin those tires tho!

RamAirZ

08/14/2010, 03:12 PM

You can have the backspacing set at whatever you want (within reason) on those H1's

Triathlete

08/14/2010, 03:20 PM

Check out Starzworks (http://stazworks.com/) for some really nice beadlocks.:yesy:

RamAirZ

08/14/2010, 03:28 PM

another good place

http://www.trailworthyfab.com/Custom-Hummer-Wheels/

less than $300 a wheel with ALL options (welded on rock ring, powder coated wheel and rock ring, flat center with custom backspacing, pvc insert for beadlock, etc), not bad IMO for a double beadlock. Starzwork's has some sweet wheels though!

ZEUS

08/14/2010, 03:34 PM

You can have the backspacing set at whatever you want (within reason) on those H1'sThe H1 wheels are 16.5's tho - are the recenters down-sized to 16" somehow?

Ascinder

08/14/2010, 03:44 PM

Get some recentered H1 beadlocks with rock rings, it's a double beadlock, cheap (as far as beadlocks are concerned) and look pretty sweet IMO

That would be great, but H1 beadlocks are 16.5 IIRC. I don't think they'd fit properly. I was actually going to get those(from trailworthyfab.com) but I figured they wouldn't fit the 16" tires.

You can use any wheel you like that fits and just get a weld on beadlock kit or internal bead locks (staun's). Those tires grip great especially if you warm em up a bit.

Unfortunately, I just read this over at Pirate:

8/10/2010 update: Staun Products in Australia has reportedly gone out of business and is no longer shipping beadlock product. Deflators are still available at this time.
Sorry for the confusion.

That spec combo isn't too hard to find really. I found a used set in Denver recently for the beater truck for less than 150! If you can find something closer to a positive offset rim you may be able to leave the axles uncut. Diggin those tires tho!

I have yet to find a set anywhere near here. I checked craigslist and all the usual rim and tire places, but either everything's the wrong size or they look like clone-a-jeep wheels or gangsta-chrome specials. I saw some 16X8's and thats about it. Remember, I want to stick with aluminum if possible since the wheels themselves already weigh in at 75 lbs. a pop. I may just buy some rims and have them converted. I'm liking these:

http://www.tirerack.com/images/wheels/granitealloy/swap/ga_ga9_fbml_ci3_l.jpg

RamAirZ

08/14/2010, 04:32 PM

darn it, your right. I misread your tire size and thought it said 16.5, so no they wouldn't fit. I found 41 matches for 16x10 rims on 8x6.5 bolt pattern at summitracing in aluminum

http://www.summitracing.com/search/Department/Wheels-Tires/Section/Wheels/Part-Type/Wheels/Wheel-Diameter/16-in/Wheel-Width-in/10-00-in/Wheel-Bolt-Pattern/8-x-6-1-2-in/Wheel-Material/Aluminum/?Ns=Rank|Asc

I've always liked the Classic Locks from Mickey Thompson

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/mtt-468452_w.jpg

RamAirZ

08/14/2010, 04:37 PM

Allied Wheels has some beadlocks in 16x10

http://www.alliedwheel.com/wheel.php?name=Black%20Rock%208%20Beadlock

Ascinder

08/14/2010, 05:40 PM

I found 41 matches for 16x10 rims on 8x6.5 bolt pattern at summitracing in aluminum

http://www.summitracing.com/search/D...m/?Ns=Rank|Asc

I've always liked the Classic Locks from Mickey Thompson

Yeah, we have summit right here in town, so that was one of the first places I looked. I'm just not a fan of most of those. I guess my gripe is that the vast majority of wheels with concentric circles tend to look like the same stuff you see on just about every truck or suv out there. I know my old VX rims had those, but they definitely looked different. The other gripe I guess I have is a lot of wheels look like they're made of cheap shiny plastic. I don't know if it's just me, but it drives me nuts. I may just have a bias against 8 lug wheels too, because I just seem to find a lot more wheels that I like in a six lug pattern only.

Allied Wheels has some beadlocks in 16x10

http://www.alliedwheel.com/wheel.php...208%20Beadlock

Yeah, but that is the exact kind I'm trying to avoid hence the clone-a-jeep jab:bgwo: I think I'm starting to settle on either some OMF's:

http://www.omfperformance.com/locals/images/content/beadlocked_wheels/Phaze_6_Sim_on_Nissan_Wheel_Web_Lrg.jpg

http://www.omfperformance.com/locals/images/content/beadlocked_wheels/Phaze_5_with_Rock_Starz_web_lg.jpg

or more likely Racelines since they are very highly recommended:

X2 on the Racelines!

I mount my tires myself, since I have to change them so often for these different races, and even at a GPS clocked 110mph I felt no wobble, shimmy, or shake with no balancing!

They will bend if you hit a 2 foot tall boulder at 70mph in a blind corner. But thats really just ****ty driving!

Great looking wheels and very tough, at a fair price!

Racelines it is.

Rick.

10 miles of traction tough!!! Took us to a 2nd place class finish in the XO 250!
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu330/slvrbck33/IMG00743-20100619-1859.jpg?t=1277152799

They also have a mismatched "set" of Forged beadlocks on clearance HERE (http://www.racelinewheels.com/s-2-special-buys.aspx) they're the first set on the page. Forged is super nice because they are super light and super strong. And $229 for beadlocks is cheap by anyone's standards.

RamAirZ

08/14/2010, 06:11 PM

I like those OMF's!!!

Gizmo42

08/19/2010, 06:27 PM

I like those OMF's!!!

Those are what Jay had put on his FJ. They converted his stock FJ rims.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c337/Gizmo420/Moab%20ZuZoo%20XII%202010/IMG_0640.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c337/Gizmo420/Moab%20ZuZoo%20XII%202010/IMG_0639.jpg

Ascinder

08/19/2010, 08:21 PM

There's definitely pros and cons on any rim I decide to run. Right now I'm leaning strongly towards the Racelines over the OMF's, but I got a taste of some hutchinsons in the last few days and I really want some of those. Here's a side by side comparison of the three:

Name: Raceline
http://i.ebayimg.com/03/!BuH)CNwB2k~$(KGrHqYH-D4EvsTLd+TRBL+!uSR6vg~~_12.JPG

Pros: Forged aluminum is stronger and lighter than cast, and won't shatter. Made in the USA rims. The set I would get is half price. Lightest of the three so parasitic losses are minimized. Brand new. Has a great reputation in the offroad community as being tough and well made.

Cons: Set I would get is mismatched, so cosmetically unappealing, and potential resale diminished. Still more expensive than Hutchinsons. Single beadlock. Not recommended for on road use.

Bottom Line: Great for performance, not so great from an aesthetic standpoint.

Name: OMF
http://www.omfperformance.com/locals/images/content/beadlocked_conversions/Phaze_5_with_Rock_Starz_HEADER.jpg

Pros: Goes on just about any rim you can come up with. Attractive styling and beautiful finish. Looks like performance stuff.

Cons: Costs $200-300 per wheel to have converted plus two way shipping, plus the cost of the wheels themselves, which at that price would be cast stockers. Depending on a welded lock to hold everything together. Not recommended for on road use.

Bottom Line: Great eye candy, but questionable for true hardcore use

Name: Hutchinson
http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25504&d=1211244987

Pros: Relatively cheap as far as beadlocks go. I almost scored a set for $500 the other day. Double beadlock holds both sides of the tire in place. Relatively indestructible beefy solid design. Made in USA, may or may not be forged. DOT approved for on road use.

Cons: Rare as can be. Heavy duty design is heavy. Requires a new 16" O-ring every time you take them apart. Not the most visually appealing rims I can think of, in fact, far from it. Looks like stock fullsize truck rims.

Bottom Line: Ugly as sin, but they do the job like a champ-if you can find some

ZEUS

08/19/2010, 08:35 PM

RamAirZ

08/19/2010, 09:08 PM

Those OMF one's on Jay's FJ are sick looking! It's a tough call, I hate shopping for wheels. I'm glad I already knew what I wanted to try on the VX before I got it lol

nfpgasmask

08/19/2010, 09:26 PM

I like the Hutchinson wheels. If wheels were guns they would look like this:

http://www.strangepolice.com/images/content/133342.jpg

All business. :D

Bart

Triathlete

08/19/2010, 09:39 PM

If you are interestd in the internal beadlocks rjroffroad.com had the stauns on clearance sale. Also there is another company making them. I'll see if I can find their info.

Triathlete

08/19/2010, 10:05 PM

The other company is innerairlock.com...they look identical to the stauns except color.

Ascinder

08/19/2010, 10:52 PM

That's why I was lookin for them for the expo rig - "ugly full size truck rims". Your VX is shaping up to be a full size truck anyway tho. :P I guess we both missed out on 'em... this time! I reeaaalllyy didn't need 35"s laying around yet anyway. ;( yeah right. We both want two sets of tires... we should try again soon!

Agreed, let's both keep our eyes open, maybe something will materialize. I put up a wanted post over at Pirate, maybe someone's been sitting on a set or two.

I like the Hutchinson wheels. If wheels were guns they would look like this: All business.

LOL, yeah, they do look tough, but I'm just not a fan of the fullsize look wheels. They just all look like the same five designs they've been rehashing since the 70's. I will say at least the hutchinsons are one of the designs I could live with. They do have a certain THUD charm I guess.

If you are interestd in the internal beadlocks rjroffroad.com had the stauns on clearance sale. Also there is another company making them. I'll see if I can find their info.

The other company is innerairlock.com...they look identical to the stauns except color.

I'm definitely staying away from the inflatables. Stazworks is out of business, and from what I could tell they were the forerunner in that type of beadlock. Not such a warm fuzzy feeling. From what I've been told they are an absolute PITA to work with especially on the trail, tricky to balance, and some people report going through the tubes on a higher frequency than I'd like. One guy also said he cut a tires sidewall because it got pinched between the rock and the innertube causing a "pinch flat". I have heard of the innerairlocks too, but like you said, they are pretty much the same. I like the hutchinsons, it's just finding them that's hard. Also, their parts support is somewhat questionable.

Triathlete

08/20/2010, 01:32 PM

I think that "mismatched" set would actually look pretty cool. The solid spokes on the rear the split spokes on the front...painted to match the VX of course.:yesy:

RamAirZ

08/20/2010, 02:07 PM

Or put 2 on one side and 2 on the other, looks matched which ever side you loko at it

Luna X

08/20/2010, 04:26 PM

Or put 2 on one side and 2 on the other, looks matched which ever side you loko at it

and most people would never notice the difference unless you pointed it out to them... ;)

RamAirZ

08/20/2010, 09:34 PM

Yup that's what I was thinking. Shoot I know people who build cars this way on purpose lol

Triathlete

08/27/2010, 02:19 PM

Ascinder...
I know you have been purchasing a lot from Ballistic so in case you are not on their mail list they are currently having 10% everything including their shocks...Use promo code bas10:yesy:

Ascinder

08/27/2010, 06:45 PM

Ascinder...
I know you have been purchasing a lot from Ballistic so in case you are not on their mail list they are currently having 10% everything including their shocks...Use promo code bas10

OH, yeah. I'm more of a regular on Pirate than here anymore, so I saw it within 5 minutes of them posting. That said, I have a couple hundred bucks worth of brackets to buy over the weekend. It sucks because I just bought a set of 5 Hutchinsons and I'm buying these things called Centramatics to assist with balancing on what are looking to be 130 lb. wheels, so money is getting flushed out of my account on a quick and continuous basis lately. I swear my sub conscience likes to keep my account as close to zero as possible.

Triathlete

08/27/2010, 09:44 PM

Might as well...can't take it with you.:bwgy:

RamAirZ

08/27/2010, 10:46 PM

LOL tell me about it! I've been doing the same thing lately, I wish my wife thought like you Billy lol

Triathlete

08/28/2010, 10:43 AM

OH, yeah. I'm more of a regular on Pirate than here anymore, so I saw it within 5 minutes of them posting. That said, I have a couple hundred bucks worth of brackets to buy over the weekend. It sucks because I just bought a set of 5 Hutchinsons and I'm buying these things called Centramatics to assist with balancing on what are looking to be 130 lb. wheels, so money is getting flushed out of my account on a quick and continuous basis lately. I swear my sub conscience likes to keep my account as close to zero as possible.

Those pirate guys would go apes@�� over your build! I read a lot there but don't do a lot of posting.:bwgy:

Ascinder

08/31/2010, 03:53 PM

These are on the way as we speak-should be arriving Saturday:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/photo8.jpg

They will likely be sandblasted and powdercoated either a matte black or a flat desert tan to match the VX's intended paint scheme. The Centramatics ought to be here tomorrow as well.

nfpgasmask

08/31/2010, 04:10 PM

So you got them finally! I say desert tan. That would look awesome.

Bart

Triathlete

08/31/2010, 07:26 PM

Those are sweet!
Maybe do the the centers tan and the rest black.:yesy:

RamAirZ

08/31/2010, 07:31 PM

ya what Billy said, tan center with black everything else! Man your stealing my paint idea :( I might have to change it now lol. I was gonna do that color scheme to my future rims too

Ascinder

08/31/2010, 07:59 PM

Those pirate guys would go apes@�� over your build! I read a lot there but don't do a lot of posting.

You know, that got me thinking Billy, so I posted it up in the 'Zu forum over there. As for the wheels, I think doing the center that way would be awesome:thumbup:(ramairz, do yours that way too and we'll all be in the cool kids club)Now you know how I felt when Bart went and did his trooper in tan and black, lol. I'm trying to develop a paint scheme right now that incorporates shades of tan and grey together in a streaming-blending-swirling pattern so the VX looks likes it's blowing through the middle of a sandstorm. It's likely to be a lot of airbrush work, but should still be easy to repair if and when it gets Nevada pinstriped or dinged or crushed on rocks:evil2:

RamAirZ

08/31/2010, 08:12 PM

Ya I was planning on this sand color using Durabak Smooth (like line-x and rhino-liner) on the metal panels and then there textured black or dark grey for the cladding and the hood insert. I'm working on a snorkel for it too. I think it'll look sweet all decked out in that color scheme with the tan/black wheels, rack, snorkel, etc. Ya Bart's Trooper looks sweet though.

Ascinder

09/11/2010, 06:03 PM

All business indeed! :yes:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/IMG_0847.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/IMG_0845.jpg

Triathlete

09/11/2010, 10:19 PM

:drool2::drool2::drool2::drool2:

ZEUS

09/12/2010, 08:25 AM

Veddy niiice! How's your back? Is that combo around 120 lbs or so?

nfpgasmask

09/12/2010, 10:13 AM

Dude, that setup looks NASTY. So, where are you at with the project percentage wise? 50% done? 75%? Almost there?

:p Bart

Ascinder

09/12/2010, 02:23 PM

Veddy niiice! How's your back? Is that combo around 120 lbs or so?

Close, 116.5 including the centramatics and all the nuts holding the wheels together. This is without the inner beadlock portions which I'm estimating at 7-12 lbs. So we are looking at close to 130 a piece. In answer to your question though, they sucked to move upstairs in the heat, so I was a little sore and a lot tired:waag: :whiteflag: Moving them back down should be fun though :rotate:

Dude, that setup looks NASTY. So, where are you at with the project percentage wise? 50% done? 75%? Almost there?

I would honestly say 45% realistically. I don't really feel like I'm quite over the hump yet. I have a lot of what I need, so probably not a lot of waiting for parts, but I need a plasma cutter something fierce right now, but can't bring myself to justify the cost for how much I'll be using it. Maybe I should "borrow" the one from the facility for the day:evil: Other than that, there is just a lot of ancillary things to do like get a hold of sensors for the engine and stuff. The order of things is a mess too, it's always take things apart, put them back on for a test fit, take them off cause they're in the way, wash ,rinse, repeat. I have to take the rims out to guard to sandblast them, then order the powder, then shoot them and bake them. Also have to order the 16" o-rings they take and I'd like to scare up some new hardware for holding them together since the current stuff looks a bit ;puke: I may even go really hardcore and drill some safety wire holes for the nuts.

nfpgasmask

09/12/2010, 03:33 PM

Yeah, after Japan and after the Falcon sells I will be doing up my garage. I can't wait. It just seems like money goes out at warp speed and comes in in slow motion. :rolleyes:

Bart

Ascinder

10/01/2010, 05:51 PM

Alright boys and girls, I just threw down on a Plasma cutter/ AC/DC Tig combo unit(Longevity Weldall 200PI) so the real fabbing is about to begin. It will be replacing a harbor freight cheapie tig unit that could barely stick two pieces of tinfoil together and an oxy acetylene torch that well, just didn't cut as well as a plasma can. This new unit is eventually destined to end up as the torch on a 2 axis CNC plasma table, but in the meantime, it'll be tasked with carving up the VX and burning on some heavy duty mounts. I am also just finishing up most of the loose ends on the engine. I just got a 1/2" tubing bender(Swagelok MS-HTB-8) rated for stainless(read $$$) and a flaring tool(Ridgid 375) for the same. I also grabbed a Protools HSN 500 tube notcher for the upcoming chassis/rollcage/shock hoop fabricating. Also been replacing the split loom on the wiring harness since the old stuff was hardened with age and oil/grease/dirt soaked. The 18" diameter, 4 foot long, 3/4" thick sewer pipe is down at the local plastics manufacturer/distributor getting chopped up into little pieces to become the beadlock wheel inserts.

Marlin

10/02/2010, 06:33 AM

Triathlete

10/02/2010, 09:08 AM

Can I come live in your garage for a while?:bwgy:

vt_maverick

10/03/2010, 12:02 PM

Why do I feel like eventually you'll be able to make new VX's from scratch in your garage?

ZEUS

10/03/2010, 04:45 PM

FINALLY SOME PROGRESS!!! ;) (The fact that's coming from me is what makes it funny.)
I checked on some combo units and that is the one I figured I could actually afford and use. And then life got in my face again and I realized I can't afford it afterall. So that means... I'll be coming to your house again soon! :D

Tookie

10/03/2010, 06:20 PM

hahahahahaha

Fab party at Ascinder's house! :smilewink

Ascinder

10/03/2010, 06:29 PM

Can I come live in your garage for a while?

Yes, I need the help:bwgy::_beer:

Why do I feel like eventually you'll be able to make new VX's from scratch in your garage?

Because I will, I mean, someone's got to:supercool

FINALLY SOME PROGRESS!!! (The fact that's coming from me is what makes it funny.)

Speaking of which,"Hey pot, this is kettle, how's your project coming? Haven't heard anything in while....":bwgy:

I checked on some combo units and that is the one I figured I could actually afford and use.

They'll knock an extra couple hundred bucks off with that "make an offer" deal they have going on. Stop buying Jeeps and you can get one(says the hippocrite:p)

So that means... I'll be coming to your house again soon!

Well what are you waiting for? Let's have a "build Ascinder's Vehicross" group meet. :yes::jump::yes:

Marlin

10/03/2010, 07:14 PM

hahahahahaha

Fab party at Ascinder's house! :smilewink

WHAT KIND OF PARTY??:eek:

Wait, I read that wrong, carry on everyone.

ZEUS

10/03/2010, 08:44 PM

Speaking of which,"Hey pot, this is kettle, how's your project coming? Haven't heard anything in while....":bwgy:

They'll knock an extra couple hundred bucks off with that "make an offer" deal they have going on. Stop buying Jeeps and you can get one(says the hippocrite:p)

Well what are you waiting for? Let's have a "build Ascinder's Vehicross" group meet. :yes::jump::yes:I do need to update my build progress but it is once again on hold cuz I have till the 12th to get rid of a few project trucks and clean up the city's property... I mean MY property. ..|..

Plus since my tree broke off 20 years of growth and that put 10 holes in my roof before BMan I'm getting nickle and dimed out of my build money. So no new cool tools for me yet. Tip: Never buy a house! :mad:

Ascinder

10/03/2010, 09:29 PM

pbkid

10/03/2010, 09:49 PM

ya, i could take the $1200 the local shop wants to build a rear bumper with swing arm for my Runner and drive to Reno :naughty:

......ill bring beer........ ;)

ZEUS

10/03/2010, 10:30 PM

After the stories you've told me about the neighborhood, I can't believe the city would crack down on you of all people. Crazy Mormons...... That sucks about the tree too, life always seems to have ways of kicking you in the nuts when you least expect it. At least now you have a good reason to liquidate some of your excess inventory :) so who's up on the chopping block first?Well interestingly enough, all 3 trucks were in regards to ONE project! The Army truck I bought for $600 (no title or A/C or anything comfortable) so I got the 2wd donor truck for the body, title, comforts, 12v system, stronger motor. Then later, I got the '94 for the 6.5 turbo and NV4500; failing to realize I got the 1st year of electronic injection - which was CRAP! All 3 trucks died shortly after buying them and diesel parts are expensive so now I hate diesels! No idea what to do yet... other than toss the motor and trans in the Blazer quickly so I can take the trailer out of the garage and try to figure out how to slide the Blazer to the left side of the garage so AWOL can go back where it was on the right side of the garage. I could throw the extra VX plate on the green truck for now and just let the 2wd go to a pick 'n pull or tow it to a friend's house till the city is off my back. They just want to raise property taxes. :mady:

Ascinder

10/04/2010, 07:33 AM

......ill bring beer........

SOLD!

They just want to raise property taxes.

There's a shocker. So You just need to get all the parts you need together and ditch those other trucks. Have you looked into govliquidation.com at all for those diesel parts? It seems like they always have 6.2 and 6.5 diesels on there for cheap.

pbkid

10/05/2010, 07:08 PM

justin- you know that a 350 will drop right into those SCEV's or whatever their called (if your talking about the military blazer/1.5 ton trucks)

my dad just got done getting a 350 into ours.... runs like a champ now ;)

Ascinder

10/17/2010, 09:23 PM

Plastic tube for the inserts came back from the plastics place and other than trying to charge me an outrageous amount and failing(I had a friendly "chat"), the quality was fantastic. They cut a 30 degree bevel into the edges to help form the tire bead into the rim lip.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/PICT1631.JPG

I spent the better part of that morning looking for the 50 year old jigsaw my dad brought over on the Ark, only to not find it(probably crumbled into dust) and having to go get a new one. The beadlock inserts I had made needed to be cut so that they locked together like puzzle pieces, but could be broken down to be able to fit inside the tire(inserts=18" diameter vs. 16" tires). Following pics are an example. Mine are black and don't show up nearly as well.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Hummer_Rims/IMG_5120.jpg

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Hummer_Rims/IMG_5124.jpg

So, that's when I spent the better part of an afternoon/evening cutting out one(1)-yes one insert and getting it completely installed in the wheel/tire combo. I had to do five passes of the 16 nuts that hold the rim halves together followed by two torque passes. Thats tightening down 112 times for, again, one wheel. Not fun. To my credit, when aired up, the only thing that leaked air was the valve core that wasn't all the way seated in. Couple twists, now we're good. Only four more wheels to go:deady:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/PICT1628.JPG

Also, the Longevity plasma cutter/TIG welder showed up. I haven't cut anything yet-been busy playing catch up with everything else going lately.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/PICT1630.JPG

I did go out and grab 20 ft. of seamless stainless tubing for the fuel system since the coil of stainless I had on hand kinked like a cheap coat hanger. After struggling with some of the first flares I attempted, I got some help from the pros over at the Ridgid pipefitting forums. Everything's looking smooth now. I also picked up a 32 gallon oilless compressor for running the plasma cutter. I rigged up an oil/water separator to an industrial air filter which goes to another oil/water separator which feeds into a dessicant based air dryer and then into the plasma cutter/Tig unit.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/PICT1635.JPG

Yes, I like overkill. What I don't like is having to replace expensive plasma consumables, which are consumed much quicker if moisture is present in the air supply. They way the plasma/tig is set up, the compressed air supply and the Argon/helium supply share a common connection to the unit and you just switch over to whichever system you are using at the time. Kind of a PITA, but it is what it is. I also picked up a 50-50 mix of argon and helium and a ton of welding paraphernalia to get used to the TIG side of the system and practice on some of the unlimited supply of scrap aluminum I have access to(thank you aviation sheetmetal shop:winky:). Aluminum is great to learn on because it requires little to no prep between each weld unlike steel. I also got some 2% lanthanated tungsten electrodes since they are the non:nuke: equivalent to the 2% thoriated electrodes. They also work really well on both aluminum and steel. But with quality TIG, you have to use a dedicated grinding wheel so you don't contaminate your tungstens so I grabbed an 8" wet/6" dry grinder specifically for that purpose:rolleyes:. I also picked up a little wheel type attachment that lets you do perfect straight plasma cuts by keeping your torch from touching the metal and guiding it along rollers along the line. Somehow that last weekend, I also ended up with a hydraulic press whose ram can only be described as: "ridiculously huge" (See the tape measure in the following pic for size reference)I really want to turn it into a plate bender to make brackets and tabs with.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/PICT1637.JPG
Aside from buying a bunch of shop toys, I was able to source a complete A/C setup including the corvette compressor, lines, fitting, air dryer, bracket, hardware, and some idlers and tensioners. Got that all installed save for the upper tensioner which was missing two bolts to mounts it. GM doesn't have them in stock, so there's one more loose end for me to chase-good thing, I was running out of important stuff to do:rolleyesg .

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/PICT1643.JPG

Also got the new smaller, more powerful starter installed along with 95% of the convoluted tubing for the wiring harness. Also got the huge 90mm MAF sensor. All in all the engine is starting to be a done deal. I have very few things still to get to complete it.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/PICT1638.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/PICT1649.JPG

I began the mod of grinding down the shift rail on the NP205 transfer case to allow separate shifting of the front and rear axles. So now I should be able to run 4HI, 4LO, 2HI, 2LO or Neutral in any combination front and rear. Normally it is only possible to disconnect the front(2 wheel drive).

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/PICT1629.JPG

Disconnecting the rear allows you to run a FWD vehicle which is good in some circumstances. When used in conjunction with cutting brakes(individual wheel brakes) you can pivot around corners unlike anything else. So yes, I'm totally doing that. Here's a LINK (http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/techarticles/wheels/131_0707_cutting_brakes/index.html) that explains them a little better.

I also grabbed these cool little black chrome LED lights to run as rock lights on the bottom of the rig.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/PICT1645.JPG

But enough :bla: for now, time to get back to work. This thing's not going to build itself.:_wrench:

.

ZEUS

10/17/2010, 09:35 PM

WOOHOO! Progress. That motor is looking stellar! Still not sold on the batwing tho. I can't keep my compressor in that location due to frame interference which is part of why I don't like the batwing I guess... can't wait to see what that thing looks like dropped into place however! The rollers... AWESOME! Watch your back. ;)

nfpgasmask

10/17/2010, 10:12 PM

Awesome dude, the wheels/tires look sickgnar.

Bart

JHarris1385

10/18/2010, 09:16 AM

unreal

vt_maverick

10/18/2010, 09:48 AM

I have a feeling that if I was good enough with mechanical stuff to actually own a plasma cutter, my project would go seriously off schedule while I tried using it on everything I could think of. Phone books, spiral hams, my friend's plasma cutter (images of light saber battles dancing in my head)... nothing would be safe. :)

Nice work (even if I don't understand it all), can't wait to see pics of everything put back together!

Triathlete

10/18/2010, 11:19 AM

Disconnecting the rear allows you to run a FWD vehicle which is good in some circumstances. When used in conjunction with cutting brakes(individual wheel brakes) you can pivot around corners unlike anything else. So yes, I'm totally doing that.

"Front digs" anyone?:bwgy::thumbup:

Ascinder

10/27/2010, 08:58 PM

So, a little progress update. My belt for the A/C compressor got here and was installed-yay. Also the shift rail mod to the transfer case is completed and everything reinstalled. On a side note, the transfer case guts look brand new inside with no signs of wear.
Anyways, for the purpose of this post, I thought I'd shoot out this little tidbit about some wheel tech. In assembling the Hutchinson double beadlocks, I wanted to look into the options to air the tires up and down quickly. Being bigger, they hold more air and therefor take longer to air up and down when you offroad. I had a set of caps on a keychain that attached to the valvestems and basically held down the schrader valve to air all four tires down at once. They worked ok, but were fairly slow. Another option is to pull the valvestems to let the air out even faster. Problems with that is that occasionally the tiny stems get launched into the abyss that is the great outdoors never to be seen again. So, I started looking into alternatives. There are a lot, but the one I chose was to use tractor valve stems. Reason being that they were the most effective out of any option and the most available anywhere in the US should replacement parts be needed. They were also the cheapest at a measly $4.50 each. Tractor valvestems have a removable core that is used to add either water or Calcium chloride as a ballast. Needless to say it would take a long time to fill up a tractor tire with either through the small hole that removing a valvestem provides so the removable section on a tractor valve is pretty big. People say these stems can drop a max air pressure 42" tire to zero psi in 20-30 seconds. The removable core of a tractor valve gets taken off by hand instead of a special valvecore tool, so when the air pressure decides to try and launch it, you have a much better chance of holding onto it. In the following pics I have three valves which demonstrate the size differences of the air passages. The small one is your standard size opening on a tire valve. It comes in at a whopping .010 square inch of airflow. The next size up is only slightly better at .027 square inches of throughput. The tractor valve however is .075 square inches which still sounds small, but is 750% bigger than stock. When has anyone ever done a mod that increased that much over stock levels of anything-no really, I don't need smartguy followup answers to that statement(you know who you are:p) Another thing to note is that the valves(all three) seal differently than your typical stock wheel valve. These valves are all metal with a rubber seal that sits inside the rim so it isn't exposed to sunlight or the elements. After seeing several rubber valvestems deteriorate and crack and leak air, I'm really liking this all metal design. The rims' valvestem openings had to be reamed out only slightly to accept the larger threaded portion of the tractor valves. The tractor valves also had to be turned down at their base from 7/8"(0.875) to 0.800" to fit in internal slot inside the rim itself. Without furter ado, Here's the pics:

The three different size air passage holes:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/IMG_0901.jpg

Side by side size comparison:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/IMG_0903.jpg

The tractor valve showing the core removed. As an additional note, the core contains a normal valvestem so these are still servicable at any location you would air a tire up at.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/valve.jpg

And that concludes this segment of Ascinder's fun yet boring facts about stuff you never knew or cared about. Tune in next week for my segment on tire doilies.....:bwgy:

ZEUS

10/27/2010, 10:12 PM

BRAVO CHAP!! BRAVO!!! :bgwo: At least on the Hutch's you can tuck them out of the way enough to protect them from trail hazards.

Marlin

10/28/2010, 08:16 AM

Over the weekend at Uwharrie, some Jeepers next to us showed me a neat toy. It was an ARB deflator, he said it was 40 bucks at a 4x4 shop in colorado. The way it works was like a normal chuck with a gage. It clipped onto the vavle stem, and had an adjustment screw that actually pulled the valve core out without the risk of losing the core!! Very cool and it monitored pressure in real time. I have a set of trailhead deflators and a set of smittybilt deflators, which work pretty good, but those tractor stems look awesome!!!

ZEUS

12/30/2010, 05:00 PM

Psst... what's going on... ?

Ascinder

12/31/2010, 06:09 AM

Well, I've been working on the front axle mostly. I already had well placed concerns after reading about the Ford Kingpin knuckles being weaker than their Chevy or Dodge counterparts an cracking or failing. I had been planning on either welding on reinforcements(they have a nice kit for that now) or getting some stronger aftermarket knuckles. Well, after seeing this:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachments/general-4x4-discussion/1356993d1403143117-weld-plating-knuckles-2012_08_18__14_36_21.jpg

I decided I was sold on fixing the problem before it got started. I probably am not running big enough tires to damage a stock knuckle, but in the spirit of the build I went with the maximum overkill option;Db;

Behold, the Kingpin Dana 60 SOLID Knuckle:

http://www.solidaxle.com/ProductCart/pc/catalog/SA0760KPK1_400.jpg

I also got forged dana 70 style inner C's to hang the knuckles on:

http://inlinethumb47.webshots.com/44014/2291274550080149338S600x600Q85.jpg

Then come the keyed highsteer arms with ARP studs:

http://artecindustries.3dcartstores.com/assets/images/highsteer/d60-knuckle-assembly-features3.jpg

I am also thinking about some of these heavier duty kingpin bushings vs. the stock nylon bushings:
https://www.justdifferentials.com/v/vspfiles/photos/NP41886-2.jpg

And, since I was a good little boy this year, I had a special visit from hotrod santa

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/4243913/2/istockphoto_4243913-santa-s-hotrod.jpg

who brought me a set of aluminum AN wrenches and this:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-J-4TYTtL.jpg

and this(except blue):

http://www.cncbrakes.com/images/452S.jpg

I have also been successful cutting off only one bracket so far, but I have all weekend to work on it too. Hopefully the tax return will be good this year, and/or some lucky soul finally buys my engine so I can at least complete the steering($$$) and start working up the suspension(also $$$, but more so). For the front axle I am also considering drive slugs, but I do like the idea of being able to disconnect the hubs since it cuts out the parasitic drag of the axles themselves along with the ring/pinion and front driveshaft. With slugs, they are much stronger, but you are always lugging around the front drivetrain. I am also on the fence between some CTM axles or the RCV 60 CV axles. I just really don't like the idea of going back to a CV boot no matter how well it's designed.

ZEUS

01/01/2011, 10:19 AM

The Chevy 60 axle shafts neck down and are weaker than the Ford 60 apparently... my Chevy 60 is still in need of a kingpin rebuild... I trailered AWOL to the shop in Wyoming at Christmas time actually! Excited to get that thing back running! :yesgray:

Those parts are some BEEF yet again! Did you finger out which ram setup you are going to use? I think you should hold off on the slugs cuz they are so easy to add later if you so desire. Same goes for the axle shafts. I know you want to do everything in a manner that leaves you unable to say "I wish I would have done it this way". But... you are going to have serious bug squashing to do during the build and after when you hit pavement and after that when you hit dirt/rocks. I think perhaps some prioritizing is in order? Any time I find myself mentioning budget concerns I refocus on what I can do to further the project and break things in to phases accordingly. Simple things you know you can do later without compromising the final goal should be taken into account. Just my pesos.

P.S. - Remember you, Bart, and I talked about me moving to Reno and all of us renting a building to act as our shop where we could split costs of tools? Well... you have the TIG/plasma... in about 2 weeks my tube bender (with 1 3/4" 6" radius die) will be here... I am still deciding which notcher I want to order tho. Until I move and we get that shop... ;) maybe we should plan on a couple of road trips this year to do some bending and welding in both our locales! :yesgray:

nfpgasmask

01/01/2011, 02:15 PM

P.S. - Remember you, Bart, and I talked about me moving to Reno and all of us renting a building to act as our shop where we could split costs of tools? Well... you have the TIG/plasma... in about 2 weeks my tube bender (with 1 3/4" 6" radius die) will be here... I am still deciding which notcher I want to order tho. Until I move and we get that shop... ;) maybe we should plan on a couple of road trips this year to do some bending and welding in both our locales! :yesgray:

If you move to Reno I am 100% down with this idea!!!! You know you want to!! We have real beer here. :)

Bart

Triathlete

01/01/2011, 05:02 PM

:drool2::drool2::drool2::drool2::drool2:

Ascinder

01/03/2011, 08:48 AM

Justin, I totally see where you are coming from with the "get it done, then mess with it" line of thought, but remember, I like to pre plan out way ahead, so all my research is pretty much done and I just go do it when the time comes. I remember reading about the neck down shafts before too. Are you going to just try and find some from another D60 or wait until you actually need them? As for your meeting up idea, I'm all for it. What kind of bender are you looking at getting? The one I was building uses pro tools 105 dies. I haven't had the opportunity to use my tube notcher yet I think it's made by protools too, but if you need one in the meantime, I can mail it over to you. Also, do you remember what that site was that you told me about with the LS motor mounts that were adjustable?

nfpgasmask

01/03/2011, 09:04 AM

A friend of mine that I used to work with here has the bend tech bending system in his garage. He told me he will help me finish the Trooper bumper. I really need to get with him soon and make it happen. I'll talk to him about the bend tech stuff and see what kinda money he has into it. I would love to have that setup at my disposal.

Bart

RamAirZ

01/03/2011, 09:16 AM

Looking great man, have you found those tensioner bolts yet? I probably have some if you need them. Also are you gonna be running that truck manifold or going to a ls1/ls6 style? I think you mentioned it before but forgot lol. I've got a 6.0 sitting here in the garage I'm thinking of destroking with a 4.8 crank/rods, L92 heads, LS3 intake and some boost, can you say, YYIIPPPEEEE!!!!!

Ascinder

01/03/2011, 04:09 PM

I'll talk to him about the bend tech stuff and see what kinda money he has into it. I would love to have that setup at my disposal.

It's spendy and something I'd love to have, but right now for me it's one of those luxuries I can't afford. If you are doing complex bends like bumpers, rollcages, etc, then it's the cats meow. For simpler things like rock sliders and tube doors it's ridiculous overkill(even for me:bwgy:) Plus I need to finish my bender first. I am calling tomorrow down to my favorite metal shop to see what the damages would be to hydrocut the remainder of the holes I need(there are a lot). I did one main arm on my milling machine, but it's thick metal and large holes, so it eats bits up pretty fast. I have everything already purchased and sitting on a bench at my pops' place, and it's the perfect project to use to play with the new welder. If it looks feasable that they'll be able to do the holes for me, I'll go ahead and order some dies for it.

Looking great man, have you found those tensioner bolts yet? I probably have some if you need them. Also are you gonna be running that truck manifold or going to a ls1/ls6 style? I think you mentioned it before but forgot lol. I've got a 6.0 sitting here in the garage I'm thinking of destroking with a 4.8 crank/rods, L92 heads, LS3 intake and some boost, can you say, YYIIPPPEEEE!!!!!

All the accessories are bolted up save the power steering as I'm still undecided on what route to take yet. I'm running the L92 truck manifold from a 2010. It's much larger than the old truck manifold and apparently has breathing up around the FAST manifolds. For the engine, I still need to make the fuel rail crossover, and need to buy the MAP sensor and the EVAP system since they are different on the newer manifold and have just recently been released as stocked parts. I also need to find a good wiring diagram for the 2004 truck engine since the one I had is for an actual LS and stuff doesn't match up. Attaching the wiring harness is a trick too due to so many new/different parts vs. stock. Your Boosted 6.0 sounds pretty fun! I seriously almost went that route myself. Can you do me a huge favor and send some pics of the different sides of your 6.0? I really need a good representation of how the wiring is routed around the engine. Mine is on the floor looking like a huge spider/spaghetti/root system.

Triathlete

01/03/2011, 05:08 PM

I'm sure you've seen this...
Torchmates baby brother, the 2x2 (http://torchmate.com/products/torchmate_2x2/):bwgy:

Ascinder

01/03/2011, 05:15 PM

You have no idea how much I :drool2: over those. Torchmate is right here in Reno too, so I could literally just go pick one up. I have so many ideas that a CNC table could be used for it's just plain silly, especially combined with all the other fab crap I have lying around here. If had an available credit card one of those would be sitting in my garage right now. I already have a 3 axis CNC setup on my mill/lathe that could likely be adapted over to work, but I have had issues with it from the start(I think it needs new cables). You can also build the tables from scratch and evidently it isn't that hard. Maybe if I get the tube bender done and can make some cool VX products, I could find a way to fund the table to make even more cool VX products. That stuff is a slippery slope though since I already find enough ways to slack off on building the VX as it is:upsetgray

Triathlete

01/03/2011, 05:20 PM

Yep, Dallas (stinkyfab) has the big boy version in his shop and using it for cutting all kinds of sweet stuff. He loves it. Torchmate are always set up at the werock comps demoing the tables and cutting out the trophies.:yesy:

ZEUS

01/05/2011, 06:05 PM

Justin, I totally see where you are coming from with the "get it done, then mess with it" line of thought, but remember, I like to pre plan out way ahead, so all my research is pretty much done and I just go do it when the time comes. I'm just preaching the 'happy medium' point of view that I can't seem to follow either. :p I remember reading about the neck down shafts before too. Are you going to just try and find some from another D60 or wait until you actually need them? I'm just gonna kick it with what I have for as long as I can - AWOL is the budget build. As for your meeting up idea, I'm all for it. What kind of bender are you looking at getting? The one I was building uses pro tools 105 dies. Yep I got the Pro Tools 105 HD kit with a 240 degree die - I guess the die weighs over 50 lbs or some crap! The whole thing will be here on the 11th!!! I haven't had the opportunity to use my tube notcher yet I think it's made by protools too, but if you need one in the meantime, I can mail it over to you. Well, that's cool! I am currently trying to focus on the dash and wiring and hope to install that the first week of Feb. So still planning out the rad support and crossmember design for now. I'll get to welding a bunch of stuff when it warms up. Also, do you remember what that site was that you told me about with the LS motor mounts that were adjustable? I think you mean http://dirtydingo.com/ (http://dirtydingo.com/)

Looking great man, have you found those tensioner bolts yet? I probably have some if you need them. Also are you gonna be running that truck manifold or going to a ls1/ls6 style? I think you mentioned it before but forgot lol. I've got a 6.0 sitting here in the garage I'm thinking of destroking with a 4.8 crank/rods, L92 heads, LS3 intake and some boost, can you say, YYIIPPPEEEE!!!!!YYIIPPPEEEE!!!!! :bgwo:

I also need to find a good wiring diagram for the 2004 truck engine since the one I had is for an actual LS and stuff doesn't match up. Attaching the wiring harness is a trick too due to so many new/different parts vs. stock. Amen! This thinking has convinced me to purchase a steering column from another Sierra so I can just plug in play everything but the windows and doors locks. I have all the wiring from the donor Sierra column but wasn't thinking about installing the complete column at the time - dumbazz! :mad: Your Boosted 6.0 sounds pretty fun! I seriously almost went that route myself. Can you do me a huge favor and send some pics of the different sides of your 6.0? I really need a good representation of how the wiring is routed around the engine. Mine is on the floor looking like a huge spider/spaghetti/root system. Beau, we took HD video of the wiring on the donor truck before removing it - 5.3 and 6.0 should be identical... lemme know if you want it and I'll see what I can do...

Ascinder

01/07/2011, 02:24 PM

I think you mean http://dirtydingo.com/

I knew it was something like that, I kept wanting to say funky ferret or jackass jackal or creepy coyote, but it was that dirty dingo all along....

Beau, we took HD video of the wiring on the donor truck before removing it - 5.3 and 6.0 should be identical... lemme know if you want it and I'll see what I can do...

You sir, are a saviour!! If you can use one of those sites that host large files temporarily or if you can burn off a disc or something let me know and I'll send you whatever it costs for incidentals. That video would seriously save my bacon right about now! Also, on a separate note, I wonder if that die would fit in a flat rate box.....:?:

ZEUS

01/10/2011, 11:18 PM

I knew it was something like that, I kept wanting to say funky ferret or jackass jackal or creepy coyote, but it was that dirty dingo all along....
Hey don't make fun of me! ;)

You sir, are a saviour!! If you can use one of those sites that host large files temporarily or if you can burn off a disc or something let me know and I'll send you whatever it costs for incidentals. That video would seriously save my bacon right about now! Also, on a separate note, I wonder if that die would fit in a flat rate box.....:?:Well here is a preview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o491jobJzwo) of the video we took - this is from my crap cam. The HD video isn't much different from this one - it just looks better. I also have my dad's 6.0 1-ton Sierra here and can take pics of whatever for you... I owe you and Bart phone calls still btw! :yesgray: Also that die would be expensive to ship - round trip may be almost half price, no?

Ascinder

01/11/2011, 09:59 AM

Well here is a preview of the video we took - this is from my crap cam. The HD video isn't much different from this one - it just looks better.

Yeah, what I'm after is maybe like an engine on a stand where you would be able to see how the wiring harness wraps around it and how it attaches at various points to the engine. I am also looking for something showing what each plug on the wiring harness actually goes to. A fair amount of them I already know or can guess, but there are a few that I have no idea.

Also that die would be expensive to ship - round trip may be almost half price, no?

As much as I hate pimping a competitor, USPS has the flat rate boxes where if it fits, it ships-for one low price. So if the dies fit in a flat rate box we could send them back and forth as needed for about $11 or 15 each way. It would just make more sense to split out the cost of the die(or get additional different dies) instead of us duplicating fairly spendy tools.

nfpgasmask

01/11/2011, 01:32 PM

As much as I hate pimping a competitor, USPS has the flat rate boxes where if it fits, it ships-for one low price. So if the dies fit in a flat rate box we could send them back and forth as needed for about $11 or 15 each way. It would just make more sense to split out the cost of the die(or get additional different dies) instead of us duplicating fairly spendy tools.

I still think its a better idea for Justin to just move here so we can open our own shop. :)

Bart

Triathlete

01/11/2011, 04:01 PM

I think you should all move someplace neural...

....like Tucson:bwgy:

ZEUS

01/11/2011, 05:40 PM

Yo Reno! I need your guys' numbers again... I was about to call tonight but I got a new phone last year and lost my old phone before I could transfer contacts. Oops!
Yeah, what I'm after is maybe like an engine on a stand where you would be able to see how the wiring harness wraps around it and how it attaches at various points to the engine. I am also looking for something showing what each plug on the wiring harness actually goes to. A fair amount of them I already know or can guess, but there are a few that I have no idea.

OK, got it... I'll lay out my 5.3 engine harness (which is already connected to the engine) in the engine bay this weekend and I'll take some pics of my dad's truck engine as well. Look for pics on Sunday.

As much as I hate pimping a competitor, USPS has the flat rate boxes where if it fits, it ships-for one low price. So if the dies fit in a flat rate box we could send them back and forth as needed for about $11 or 15 each way. It would just make more sense to split out the cost of the die(or get additional different dies) instead of us duplicating fairly spendy tools.My bender is home!!! The die is indeed 52 lbs! It would need a box 12"x12"x3" plus room for packing materials.

I still think its a better idea for Justin to just move here so we can open our own shop. :)

BartHAHAHA! That would be so fun! The problem is (ok one of the problems is) I would have to finish the Blazer before moving anyway. Just can't win. :smilewink

I think you should all move someplace neural...

....like Tucson:bwgy:Tucson... where dreams go to die - Hamlet 2 :p

RamAirZ

01/11/2011, 09:11 PM

Just saw this, my motor doesn't have any wiring on it man or I'd snap some pics. I can shoot you some pics of an LS1 engine harness if you want.

Ascinder

01/12/2011, 08:32 AM

I still think its a better idea for Justin to just move here so we can open our own shop.

I couldn't agree more. I think we need to work on that shop idea more over a couple beers:_beer:

I think you should all move someplace neural...

....like Tucson

I like the idea, except for the Tucson part-heat and I aren't friends.

My bender is home!!! The die is indeed 52 lbs! It would need a box 12"x12"x3" plus room for packing materials.

Ta-Da (http://postcalc.usps.gov/)

HAHAHA! That would be so fun! The problem is (ok one of the problems is) I would have to finish the Blazer before moving anyway. Just can't win.

Oh come on, I bet that thing would fit in a decent size Uhaul truck:bwgy:

Just saw this, my motor doesn't have any wiring on it man or I'd snap some pics. I can shoot you some pics of an LS1 engine harness if you want.

I appreciate it, but I've come to find they just aren't the same. Here's what I was trying to work off of(it's 1999-02 LS1-mine is a 2004 LQ4):
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2208/2328494833_cab6f5973e_b.jpg

nfpgasmask

01/12/2011, 09:08 AM

Yo Reno! I need your guys' numbers again... I was about to call tonight but I got a new phone last year and lost my old phone before I could transfer contacts. Oops!

Ohhhh, sure, sure. Excuses, excuses. :)

HAHAHA! That would be so fun! The problem is (ok one of the problems is) I would have to finish the Blazer before moving anyway.

That's the biggest crap excuse I've ever heard!! I shipped a car from Australia!!! You're only one state away!! Come On!!! :laughing:

I couldn't agree more. I think we need to work on that shop idea more over a couple beers:_beer:

There it is.

I like the idea, except for the Tucson part-heat and I aren't friends.

x2, except an annual herping trip to the area during the monsoons is something I wish I had the time/money for. :(

:) Bart

RamAirZ

01/12/2011, 10:52 AM

Ascinder

01/12/2011, 11:35 AM

The harness should still be similar, differences would be where the connections are for the alternator, the connections for the trans if the engine came with a 4L80E, the injectors use a different connector but should be in the same place. And they didn't go to the DOD in 04' so that makes it a bit easier. What exactly are you trying to figure out? Let me look through some of my old pics, I used a 5.3 for a build in my 69' Pontiac a long time ago, maybe I have some pics of the wiring from that.

Well, the injector connectors I am changing anyways as well as the alternator, so those are easy. The issues I am having is just where I am trying to label the wiring harness connectors based on that picture I posted, and the connectors aren't there, or there are connectors that are on my harness that aren't in the picture. It would be easier if I had the other ends of the connectors to match up against, but I don't. Thee are also a fair amount that I have to convert since the oil pan and intake manifold are different. So is the MAF and so is the throttle body. Fortunately I just bought the last "missing parts" I was waiting on to actually complete the engine itself-the MAP sensor and the EVAP system. These have to be present since the DMV requires all factory sensors and emission systems to be in place.

RamAirZ

01/12/2011, 12:32 PM

ah yes I forgot where you lived lol. I would think you could narrow down most of it since "most" of the connections should be similar. The 2004 was drive by wire wasn't it? You should be able to change the throttle body to cable and delete that feature in the tune. I'll see what I can find for ya.

ZEUS

01/12/2011, 10:42 PM

I couldn't agree more. I think we need to work on that shop idea more over a couple beers:_beer:
Hehe, does Holly still work at the place with peanut butter chocolate burgers? If so, I am SOOOO down! :)

Ta-Da (http://postcalc.usps.gov/)
$15 each way = only 10 exchanges b4 $310 is reached! ;)

Oh come on, I bet that thing would fit in a decent size Uhaul truck:bwgy:
HAHA! My back hurts already!

Ohhhh, sure, sure. Excuses, excuses. :)

That's the biggest crap excuse I've ever heard!! I shipped a car from Australia!!! You're only one state away!! Come On!!! :laughing:

DAMN! I can't win! I do have to tell you guys tho - I NEED out of Utah - repression = depression! I am way too wild and free for these Borgmons.
.

nfpgasmask

01/13/2011, 08:24 AM

You know, I've been to Clary's a few times over the past few months, and I have not seen her there....there are others though, I promise.

:) Bart

Ascinder

01/13/2011, 11:35 AM

Hehe, does Holly still work at the place with peanut butter chocolate burgers? If so, I am SOOOO down!

You know, I've been to Clary's a few times over the past few months, and I have not seen her there....there are others though, I promise.

That's because when I went to Clary's the day after Justin left, she was there at the bar sobbing and bemoaning her loss-"Why oh why didn't I take him home with me?" she cried. I told her he went back to Utah and after she was done throwing up, she ran out the door in search of her one true love......:D

ZEUS

01/13/2011, 04:54 PM

You know, I've been to Clary's a few times over the past few months, and I have not seen her there....there are others though, I promise.

:) BartYeah, I know... but damn is she hot! And she's a bartender - that's a keeper... for a while. :bwgy:

That's because when I went to Clary's the day after Justin left, she was there at the bar sobbing and bemoaning her loss-"Why oh why didn't I take him home with me?" she cried. I told her he went back to Utah and after she was done throwing up, she ran out the door in search of her one true love......:DBUWAHAHAHA! She never found me! Poor girl. :p

Triathlete

04/22/2011, 03:26 PM

It has been a while...any updates?

Figure you should be about done!:winky:

ZEUS

04/22/2011, 05:11 PM

Billy, Beau has taken a forced hiatus from everything fun for a while. Big job opp.

Triathlete

04/22/2011, 05:46 PM

Big job opp=awesome

No Vx work=bummer for us
:yesy::winky::yesy::winky:

RamAirZ

04/22/2011, 10:10 PM

but big job opp could mean even more VX fun in the future! Delayed happiness, like wearing a condom

Ascinder

09/06/2011, 06:12 AM

Hey guys, I know it's been awhile, but I still got the VX on my mind. When I first started thinking of rebuilding the VX, I always had some major things I dreamt of it being able to take on. My potential "been there done that" list included Moab, the Rubicon, Baja, Paris/Dakar rally, Pike's peak, and the King of Hammers. Now I know that's asking a lot, and I'm not saying it's even possible, but I'm giving it a go and trying anyways. Well, I'm out here with some buddies and we're talking up some big plans for maybe trying to run the Baja 1000 with this thing within a year or two. Not really any serious competing, but maybe running the race just to see if it could take the punishment and survive. If it does, we are looking at a possible trip down further south(like south america south) to go chase the rigs down at the Dakar rally. Again not really competing, just driving on the same terrain and trying to keep up;Dy; Due to the previously mentioned job, a lot of parts that were on my "financially restricted" list are now back on the table. I'm not due back in country until late April/early May, but I plan on having the remaining parts already in the pipeline and waiting for me when I get there. At that point I'll have nothing but time to complete the build and start the testing(abusing) stage:yeso: Just thought I'd drop in a line and keep the fam in the loop.

Ldub

09/06/2011, 06:42 AM

Good to hear from you Brother Beau...:yes:

Hope all is well where you are, be safe.

nfpgasmask

09/06/2011, 08:24 AM

Glad to see you checking in, dude!!! April/May? Wow, thas rough!

Bart

ZEUS

09/07/2011, 11:42 AM

HEY BEAU!! So... does that mean you are going to catch a ride with Bart to next year's 'Zoo???? :D

Triathlete

09/07/2011, 12:03 PM

Oh man I am drooling just waitng to see the goodie list! :drool2: Glad to see you checking in safe and sound....even if it is just a teaser of things to come! :D

Ascinder

11/09/2017, 05:27 PM

Hello all, long time no see. So I have been out contracting in 3rd world countries for longer than I’d like, and while it has gotten better over time, I haven’t been home all that much over the years. I should be starting a contract now where I am home significantly more and the VX will hopefully finally get the loving she deserves. Here’s what’s been going on up to this point:
I ordered two Artec trusses for the 60 and the 14B axles. They are Artec TR1401 and TR6031.

http://www.artecindustries.com/assets/images/truss/dana60/trd60f03tone.jpg

http://www.artecindustries.com/assets/images/truss/14bolt/assembled-14bolt-three.jpg

I still need to do some measurements to see what I am looking at for clearance with the steering. I want to do 50 degree steering using Branik Motorsports clearancing service. I still need to measure the axle tubes to see if I can get away with shortening them. Over the ensuing years, I have cut the old “inner C’s” off to make room for the Solid units. Now would be the time to shorten the axle width if it is going to happen. More on that later.

One of the things required to keep everything street legal is a parking brake. Most parking brakes are a little shoe on the inside of a brake drum. This is what the 14 bolt rear axle used to have before I dropped the dually drums off of it and converted it to single wheel and disk brakes. Now, there is effectively no parking brake. So I looked into alternatives. There are a lot of expensive options out there like this one:

http://www.northwestfab.com/assets/images/fordparkbrakeresize.jpg

For the low low price of $399 you too can have a transfer case parking brake!
Or, you can just make a mount, cut a piece of ¼” steel into a circle (for the disc) and buy one of these for $100:

http://www.wilwood.com/Images/Caliper/Caliper_Photos-Large/Mech_Spot_Caliper-lg.jpg

I am ditching the stock E-brake handle because the mounting location for it is about to become a shift lever forest. I picked up a new blingy one from summit racing’s clearance rack for ~$20. I think I got a pretty good deal:

http://www.tennesseespeedsport.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/600x600/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/E/H/EHB-9200.jpg

Moving on to the steering, which I am about to tackle next. I am attempting full hydraulic steering and a behind the axle mounting scheme with reversed high steer arms. Hydraulic steering is powerful, but has a bit of an Achilles heel. It is usually positioned out in front of the axle right where it can get bashed by rocks. So people mount it up high to hopefully avoid that. This is where high steer arms come into play. They bolt onto the top of a steering knuckle instead of about 2/3 the way down where your tie rod usually goes. I took it a step further and turned the high steer arms backwards (so they face rear) I am planning on mounting my ram above the pinion area of the axle to provide it some additional protection. The pinion area acts as a shield/sled as far as rocks are concerned. I am kind of going for what this guy has, minus the leaf springs:

http://www.dana60.com/sceep/jeep/hydro8.jpg

I am a bit saddened because the ram I wanted to use is no longer being produced. Sean Stapley at Performance Offroad Systems is no longer in business and by all regards, his were the best. The current options available are:

>Surplus Center Ram-generic, but fairly affordable. Has welded on mount-not preferable, but it will work. Comes in at $225.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/productImages/image.axd/i.9-6688/a.1/w.1000/h.1000/2.5x8x1.5+DA+Double+Rod+Hydraulic+Cylinder_L.jpg

>Howe Racing-Highly regarded performance/quality, not highly regarded customer service. Looks blingy as hell, costs ~$800.

http://www.howeperformance.com/wp-content/uploads/428-432-1024x682.png

>PSC ram-Well regarded ram, great customer service. Uses a 2 piece piston design and has reports of it becoming unscrewed. Costs: ~$330

http://cdn3.volusion.com/xthna.vedkt/v/vspfiles/photos/kk-PSC-SC2213K-2.jpg

>Trail gear ram: Usually regarded as the budget cookie cutter ram, good customer service. Only ram to publish their internals. One piece chromoly shaft. Costs: $300

https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/xlarge/tgi-130282-1-kit_xl.jpg

The thing that always sticks in my craw after reading through the hydraulics bible is the port sizes on all these rams are AN-6 (3/8”). Most Orbitrols (steering valves) are somewhere in the neighborhood of ¾-16” ports. The KRC pump is an AN-6 on the pressure side and an AN-10 (5/8”) on the return. One of the main tenets of hydraulic system design is to keep your stuff all the same size to avoid cavitation and excess heat. So that gets me wondering if I should try and bore the ram sizes up to AN-8’s (1/2”) and size everything else accordingly. They sell ¾-16 to AN8 plugs for the orbitrol. The pump is still limited to -6 unfortunately.

So it is time to start spec’ing out the system. For a good hydraulic steering system, there are a ton of considerations. There’s a pump (the heart), an Orbitrol valve (the brain), a reservoir (the blood supply), a filter (the kidneys/liver), a cooler (sweat glands?), and all the associated lines and fittings (arteries/veins). Generally it is considered better to have hardline over flexible line whenever possible, and to keep bends and fittings to a minimum as well as size changes.

Here’s the heart of the system. It’s a KRC Pro Series aluminum pump. Supposedly they are the same size and mounting as a standard GM power steering pump and are capable of good flow and pressure numbers through swappable valves and fittings. I went with the largest of both for an output of 1600 PSI and a flow of 3.17 GPM.

https://www.southwestspeed.com/parts/KRC_63201_000a.jpg

The Orbitrol Valve is usually a tricky one. There are a plethora of configurations and options out there. Some are critical, while others are completely unnecessary. We need an Open Center, Load Reactive, and Manual Steering Check valve unit at the very least. We also need to match flow and pressure ratings to the rest of the system. The flow determines how many steering wheel turns it takes to get from lock to lock on the steering wheel. The pressure determines how much force is behind the steering (important for steering feedback and turning large, grippy tires on dry surfaces or in rocks).
Additionally, we can spec in things (usually relief valves) that protect us and the steering system from harm. Other options make our lives easier by doubling or altering steering output under certain conditions. This can give you tame, familiar, predictable steering under normal (and high speed) driving conditions, while giving you the ability to turn the wheels lock to lock in only 45 degrees of steering wheel arc(not even one turn), which can be nice in the rocks and slow stuff. I have picked out an Orbitrol valve (they are spec’ed out with a 30-something digit serial number), but I am waiting to hear back from Eaton on cost/availability. This is what an Orbitrol (sometimes incorrectly referred to as an Orbital) looks like:

https://images.4wheelparts.com/aux_incl/images.ashx?i=TGI_130043-1-KIT_PIC_4_1_72.jpg&partNo=TGI&w=330&h=330

The reservoir is (in my opinion) where most people screw up a hydraulic steering system. A reservoir should be sized at double the flow of the pump. So in my case, over 6 gallons of hydraulic fluid. Think a water cooler bottle, plus a gallon. Most off-road vehicles have reservoir sizes sized in quarts, not gallons, then act surprised when their systems overheat or they are burning out pumps. I brew my own beer and use Cornelius kegs to brew, ferment, store, and dispense my beers. Originally used for soda fountains, the kegs went out of favor in the beverage industry as they switched over to disposable plastic bags inside cardboard boxes to hold the flavored soda syrups. “Corny” kegs hold five gallons, made of stainless steel, have high flow fittings, a depressurization valve, an opening you can get your entire arm into, are cheap and readily available new or used, and finally, are rated for 130 psi working pressure and 300psi ”burst” pressure. Burst pressure is usually actually 3-4 times that, so you have a very safe operating range for the side of the system (return) that is supposed to be working in the single digits of psi. Coupled with other pieces and parts of the steering system (cooler, accumulator), my system should be well into the 6 gallon range. Here’s a Cornelius keg:

http://www.homebrewfinds.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/cln_img_3150.jpg

The filter is a bit of a nebulous point in the system. Many off-road systems use a simple screw on automotive style filter. It looks like an oil filter because essentially, that’s what it is. They are relatively cheap, reliable, and can be scaled up just by changing the size of the filter. There are also industrial type systems that use an external screw on filter body and an internal filter cartridge. They are usually sturdier and higher flow, but the filters are not as available/accessible and can be a bit confusing to deal with. I am currently looking into options for the cartridge based industrial versions, but I may end up with a simple spin on.

https://www.munciepower.com//cms/files/Products/Images/Large/Filter%20Group.png

The cooler can be anything from passive aluminum heat sink fins, to a more recognizable radiator and fan style unit, to a complex shell and tube fluid heat exchanger which uses water to cool the oil. I picked up a couple foot long aluminum heat sink style cooler for a return to the tank. I chose this for several reasons:
>I’m a cheap SOB and it was an impulse buy off the clearance rack at Summit
>it is aluminum and should theoretically have a lower pressure rating (engineered weak point) than the stainless steel reservoir (I would rather have the system have a critical failure outside on the frame rail heading to the tank vs. inside the vehicle)
>It is effectively a length of hardline, but cools the fluid better due to fins and aluminum’s superior heat dissipation properties.
>I will run a conventional style radiator/fan style cooler as well, but am waiting to see where I have space, and how much before I specify it.
Looks like this, but with only a single hole at each end:

https://www.etrailer.com/static/images/pics/D/1/D13267_500.jpg

In addition to the conventional systems found on a hydraulic steering setup I will be mounting the two Sprague accumulators. One to the high side, the other to the low side. In many systems there is little to no provision for “shock absorption” beyond a relief valve. The problem with this is found when an obstacle (rock, stump, etc.) is encountered, especially at speed. The feedback in the form of a pressure spike typically grenades the system, usually at the pump. Relief valves simply cannot open fast enough or flow enough to compensate. This is one way an accumulator can come into play. By acting as a shock absorber, the air side of the accumulator temporarily gets more compressed. As the spike passes, the air just pushes the excess fluid back into the system at a rate it can manage. On the low side the accumulator can act as a pressurized reservoir to assure fluid is always available to the system, even in the event of an off camber situation, or, in rollover conditions, long enough to turn the vehicle off to avoid system damage.

So, that about sums it up for the steering part of things…… but no, just kidding, it doesn’t. I have an ace up my sleeve. I found a PTO, or power take off system, for the NV4500 transmission. It is mounted up right now on the passenger side PTO port. The plan is to mount a PTO hydraulic pump which is capable of significantly higher output than a bastardized power steering pump (no matter how blingy looking). The idea is to be able to tailor the steering to have the KRC running at high speeds for more conventional style steering and road feel as well as lower wear and tear (and heat) on the system (1600 psi max). In the rocks, at low speeds, we kick on the PTO and the higher pressure, higher flow pump (3000 psi) starts giving us 2-2.5 turns lock to lock and powerful enough ram action (doubled) to knock over boulders while steering with a single finger. A simple check valve set up to put the KRC pump into bypass mode allows the PTO pump to take over. Easy peasy.
So that’s it then, at least for now, for the steering. For real this time.

In my years of absence, I have also grabbed the tube adapters for the suspension links found in the first post on this thread. Next is to get link lengths and weld everything up, then send them all out for heat treating.
Powertrain wise, I just picked up the guts for the doubler. In the past, I was debating even adding a doubler because Justin (ZEUS) had me scared that the powertrain would be too long and I’d never be able to fit driveshafts. Well, let me tell you. I did the research and math and made these really ****ty refrigerator drawings to prove to him (and you) that I can fit a V8 engine, heavy duty 1 ton truck transmission, doubler, AND transfer case where the original VX stuff lived, plus have an inch and a half to spare! The doubler is going to be a Northwest Fab Eco box with guts from an NP 241 transfer case. It will bring the VX’s low range gearing down to around 100:1. Pretty darn slow. Here's the refrigerator drawing for reference:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/2/Powertrain_comparison.jpg

MSHardeman

11/10/2017, 09:59 AM

Ascinder (Beau right? We met in Moab one year), it's good to see you back on the forum. I would see your name as I would scan through old threads every-now-and-then and always wondered how you were doing and how your VX build was going, if it was going at all. From the post above it looks like you are back with a vengeance and I can't wait to see how it turns out.

Keep this thread going and keep uploading pictures of the beast.

Mark H.

Ascinder

11/10/2017, 06:10 PM

Thanks Mark, I will keep updating this thread as much as possible, but I still won't be home for several months, so right now it's still just the planning and acquiring stages. I am currently working on getting the VX's frame created as a 3D model so I can start playing with positioning the powertrain, suspension links and axles. The more I can get done out here, the less hiccups I think I will run into back home. I am taking inspiration from these two designs, both of which are pushing the engine back into the cab area. I am hoping to move it back just far enough to clear things without ending up like the Comanche(red) truck with his legs pushed into the corner-especially because I have an extra pedal to deal with!

Here's the Toyota. Notice how the lines of an "Amigo bobbed" VX are similar to his rollcage/body....hmmm. It uses a smaller engine and has more clearance than the other truck. I am hoping for something closer to this as far as cab intrusion goes:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3259/medium/IMG_20130309_074759_742_zps8e8ad479.jpg
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3259/medium/toy_engine.jpg
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3259/medium/toy_engine_2.jpg
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3259/medium/toy_firewall.jpg

Here's the Comanche, a bit more recent build with a similar engine to what I am using. Notice how much less room the driver has for his legs:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3259/medium/comanche.jpg
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3259/medium/comanche_engine_pushed_back.jpg
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3259/comanche_tight_fit.JPG
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3259/medium/comanche_cockpit.jpg

Both of the build threads can be found over on pirate4x4. There are a lot more epics and a lot of good tech for anyone interested. Here are the links to each thread:

Silver Toyota (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-truck-4runner/450595-tons-underneath-build.html)

Red Comanche (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/2261513-90s-throw-back-manche-build.html)

Ascinder

11/10/2017, 08:32 PM

Found some pics (old) but show some small amount of progress:

Here it is coming off the trailer after getting moved from the old apartment to the new house:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3259/medium/edited_2.jpg

Hover mode from inside the garage:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3259/medium/edited_3.jpg

Getting some of the mounting brackets removed from the frame rails. These were a godawful nightmare. If you ever had a doubt about the VX, I can tell you firsthand it is better built than most tanks. Some of these brackets were attached and welded around the frame on all four sides. I have never seen or heard of anything like that. This was an early pic. The frame rails are completely cleaned up now.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3259/medium/Edited_1.jpg

Here's a pic of the VX where I mounted the wheels on the D60 and rolled it under. I like the stance and ride height. Stock D60's are capable of around 35 degrees of steering. With the Branik clearanced shafts, they will be able to do 50 degrees. Not sure if I have enough room for that, but we are sure going to try. The D60 has since had the inner C's cut off to make room for the upgraded units.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3259/medium/Edited_smaller_pic.jpg

Here's a simple mockup using to scale axle width, proper rim backspacing, tire size and steering angles for 50 degree steering. I was seeing what I could get away with in terms of suspension linkages.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3259/medium/50_degree_steer_capture.JPG

Ldub

11/10/2017, 08:57 PM

Glad to see you gett'n "back in the saddle" Bro. I have one of thos finn'd aluminium trans cooler in the inventory, just waiting for me to get the Zombie Hunter running again...It's been so long since I ordered it, I just realized that I have NO idea where it is. I'll prolly have to move to get my inventory in order.

Ascinder

11/11/2017, 09:49 AM

I know how you feel. I try and keep all my VX stuff in one corner of the garage, but I think it gets up at night and runs amok. Seems like nothing is ever where I left it. It's hard to get back into the swing of things being stuck over here and not being able to actually "do" anything. I am hoping if I get enough stuff together while I'm over here, the process will hopefully go smoother once I am back. I should have a solid two month block, so once February rolls around, it's time to hit this thing hard. If I can just get over the suspension hurdles, I think it will go pretty easily from there. The suspension is the only thing I haven't been able to visualize (and therefore plan around) because of all of the articulation and travel, and not having a VX in front of me to measure for link placement. I think I may be able to work around that if I can get this 3D model built. I have also been pretty squeamish about cutting into the VX, especially because it is still in such good shape. If I wipe the dust off, the paint still shines like brand new and there isn't a spot of rust to be found on the whole thing. Having seen these build threads and realizing I am working on an (almost) 20 year old vehicle wakes me up to the fact that it is already too far gone to worry about little things like that, so the firewall has a date with the sawzall. Talking to Justin(ZEUS), who is the chicken little/boogeyman of my build, (just kidding, he keeps me honest) he thinks I am going to have transmission tunnel issues. It's a possibility so I am preparing to perform surgery there too.

Ascinder

11/11/2017, 03:23 PM

Progress so far on the 3D model of the VX frame. Struggling because this is my first time doing this, but so far so good.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3259/medium/frame.JPG

Thelgord

11/11/2017, 03:24 PM

Looking good

ZEUS

11/11/2017, 04:12 PM

Hey now! What I said was... Move the front axle forward & tilt the drivetrain downward at the t-case. Especially if you are still determined to move the drivetrain backward with a doubler! Then maybe you would not have to cut as much of the firewall & tunnel & your u-joint angle would allow you to pivot the 14B pinion up at the same angle. ...ok, I did not Say ALL that, but it was inferred! Haha I for one appreciate the detailed explanation of what you are buying and why. Did you basically research each part of the steering system and write out your own explanation of how it works in a build thread form in order to keep track of it all? Or is this part of helicopter service work? Something tells me you have been writing this section of your build for quite some time! Pretty funny that I was also the guy that said, "So moving the family to Montana is the most important priority, right?" Haha NOPE! SHOP TIME! "It's winter", he says. :D

BTW... I never told you this but the last time I was at your apartment I noticed all those books in your book case... Mathematics, Metallurgy, Mechanics, etc... yet the one book I picked up was about Physics... imagine my surprise; hidden within it was a Hustler magazine! Haha BUSTED!

What 3D program are you using?

Ascinder

11/12/2017, 09:48 AM

Did you basically research each part of the steering system and write out your own explanation of how it works in a build thread form in order to keep track of it all?

Yeah, pretty much that. I need stuff like this for me as much as anyone else. Trying to keep track of all the moving parts and specs over the years takes a toll. Especially when you consider how many other projects I have. It also gives me some insight into how and why I made my decisions when I look back at it over time. If new tech materializes or something is found to work differently I can instantly compare without having to try and dig up old specs and research on the net.

Hey now! What I said was... Move the front axle forward & tilt the drivetrain downward at the t-case. Especially if you are still determined to move the drivetrain backward with a doubler! Then maybe you would not have to cut as much of the firewall & tunnel & your u-joint angle would allow you to pivot the 14B pinion up at the same angle. ...ok, I did not Say ALL that, but it was inferred!

I think I am going with a double cardan (CV) driveshaft front and rear. It requires you to point the axles and pinions directly at the transfer case yokes while the transfer case yokes stay at zero degrees.

Here's a "regular" setup:

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/images/pinion_angle_equal-opposite.PNG

Here's a double cardan "CV" setup:

http://www.4xshaft.com/images/cv_angle.gif

CV driveshafts also allow a lot more articulation than conventional setups. The pinion angle on a CV driveshaft is a good thing as well as it pushes the vulnerable pinion up away from the rocks.

Up front it is a bad thing for me because between the caster angles the kingpins are supposed to be set at(usually ~6-8 degrees but can be 15-20 degrees on full hydro setups) and the pinion angle being pushed up towards the transfer case yoke, the behind the axle hydro steering setup I am planning on running might be out of space and fighting angles that may not work out. That's next up in the 3D modeling box.

For driveshafts, the two front runners I am considering are Tom Woods and High angle Driveline. they both make "over the top" shafts that excel at both strength and articulation.

Something tells me you have been writing this section of your build for quite some time!

Nope, all in my head, just hadn't committed it to a post. It took me a couple hours at work to pull all the associated resources. I need to get a "manual" created for this build, again so I can keep track of all the various part numbers, fitting sizes, dimensions, torques, etc. Some of these things can be difficult to track down later, and if something breaks or needs replacement, you at least have a starting point.

Pretty funny that I was also the guy that said, "So moving the family to Montana is the most important priority, right?" Haha NOPE! SHOP TIME! "It's winter", he says.

Montana is still on the table, and it would be easier to work on the VX with no interference and more space....

BTW... I never told you this but the last time I was at your apartment I noticed all those books in your book case... Mathematics, Metallurgy, Mechanics, etc... yet the one book I picked up was about Physics... imagine my surprise; hidden within it was a Hustler magazine! Haha BUSTED!

That was being used as a bookmark I swear!

What 3D program are you using?

An old copy of Sketchup 2015, nothing special. Here's where I left off last night. The crossmembers are very rough because there is no good data on them. If I remember and if I still care, I will try and clean them up a bit once I'm home at some point and can get measurements.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3259/medium/VXframe.JPG

Ascinder

11/26/2017, 11:18 AM

Small update:

-I picked up the brake caliper mount brackets for the 14 bolt(rear) axle
-I picked up an NP241 HD transfer case to use as a donor for the guts of the doubler.
-I finally pulled the trigger on the NWF Ecobox doubler kit
-I grabbed 100% of the suspension link brackets. Purchased across 3 different vendors with plenty of creative modifications still to be performed.

I made some good progress getting some of the 3D models for the engine and both axles, but unfortunately, they are just too taxing for my little laptop to run. Parts for a new computer build are on the way. Hopefully i will make some progress there in the next week or two.
In the meantime, I would like to solidify the full hydro steering and keep my eye open for deals on ORI struts and lockers.

Here's the progress on the virtual build. It's sitting at expected ride height on 37's with a ~19" belly. The rims are correct, but the tires are Trepadors instead of Creep Crawlers. The engine is still sitting up very high because it takes my poor laptop a minute or two to recover from literally every move I make. New computer case showed up today and the rest should be here in a couple days, then we can really start hitting it hard.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3259/medium/VX_layup.JPG

Ascinder

12/08/2017, 06:11 PM

Some good news and some bad news.

I got all the computer parts in and assembled everything and it worked like a champ! Then I went and tried to update the BIOS and it didn't take and it was black screen of death from there on out. Motherboard is currently in transit for repairs, so likely two weeks out and two weeks back best case scenario.

Other than that, I finally decided on a ram and went with the Trail Gear Rock Assault HD ram. After seriously trying to get the surplus center ram to work out, I decided it wasn't worth the headache and went with the TG ram. I ordered the heim joints and tube adapters for it as well. I went with QA1 rod ends, PN HMR12HT and HML12HT. They are 3/4" hole x 3/4-16 threads and static rated at 52,900 lbs.

https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/mediumlarge/hal-hmr10_ml.jpg

Here's the tube adapters:

https://secure.chassisshop.com/assets/catalog/parts/partpic/600/450/ProWerks/pn_C73951H2/C73-951-H-2_1.jpg

On the rest of the steering, I went round and round(and round) with the pump and Orbitrol selection. I am thinking about ditching the KRC pump and going with an actual hydraulic pump. These pumps are used in industrial settings and can push out significantly more pressure and volume than an automotive power steering pump. They also run cooler and last longer. There are however several issues with fitment. They are a bit larger and they aren't designed for over hung loads. In other words, they can't take forces from the side (like a belt driving a pulley for instance). So we need an intermediate bearing and it has to be supported. I think this can be easily done with a simple pressed on bearing into a thick aluminum plate. The pump would bolt into the plate and the protruding shaft, now supported, would be easy to throw a pulley on. The next problem is mounting them. They are closer to the size of an alternator or A/C compressor than they are to a power steering pump. I can relocate my current A/C pump up high and to the passengers side with a relocation bracket and run the industrial pump in it's place. Why not just run the industrial pump up there you ask? Couple reasons.

-Putting the hyd. pump down low allows gravity to help keep it fed.
-It puts the pump(remember, the high pressure part) further away from the cab
-The hyd. pump has no electronics(unlike the A/C pump) and so if it gets submerged, no one cares
-The hyd. pump is noisy, so now we have it down low and away from the cab
-And most importantly, it allows us to use the A/C portion of the crank pulley. The crank pulley has two drive sections. One for the A/C, and one for literally everything else. The hyd. pump draws a lot of horsepower, especially at high rpms. Having it hooked up with everything else is a recipe for trouble. This layout isolates it and gives it it's own dedicated belt.

The Orbitrol is a tricky one too. Probably the trickiest part of the whole system. There are a blinding array of options out there and to make matters worse, choosing one option changes or negates others. The orbital is the "steering box" of the system and so out of everything, we want it to work, and work well. One of the main reasons I was pushed away from sticking with the KRC pump was that even maxed out, it only put out 1650 PSI and barely 3 gallons per minute of flow. To simplify things, the psi is how hard you can make the ram(and by extension, the wheels) push. You can literally knock boulders over with one finger with full hydraulic steering. The gallons per minute(gpm) rating is how much flow you can push through your ram. This is important for steering response. When we try and turn the wheel fast (like in a dangerous situation) we want the pump to be able to keep up. As the ram sizes go up (mine is one of the larger ones) this becomes more important. The gear driven pumps put out serious psi and flow. They start around 3000 psi and can flow up to 10 times the flow of the KRC pump. We don't need anywhere near that much flow, but what we do need is enough flow to be able to run a "proper" Orbitrol". Remember earlier how I said some options wouldn't allow others? Well it turns out the low flow and psi of the KRC pump was significantly limiting my options for the Orbitrol. One of the cooler options available is dual rate steering. You basically flip a switch and your steering goes from 5 or 6 turns lock to lock(like stock steering, and less twitchy at speed) to 2 turns lock to lock, which is great for slow speed response and doing technical stuff in the rocks. It turns out most the the safety features are only available on the higher flowing, higher pressure models as well.

12/09/2017, 08:07 PM

Ascinder

12/10/2017, 04:35 PM

A few words of caution with sizing up your power steering, from a Fluid Power Engineer with 45 years experience in circuit design, including power steering circuits.

1. Will you be driving this vehicle on the roads?? In Australia, and most of the rest of the civilised world, Orbitrol units are not legal for on road use. Stupid but true. The Orbitrol units do not have the safety features supposedly found in the sector and ball-nut type power steering boxes.

This has been gone over earlier in the thread and on other forums ad nauseum. The DOT does not specifically prohibit hydraulic steering, but does stipulate that steering must be connected through a mechanical linkage. We have garbage trucks in the states that steer purely through hydraulic steering so it is being done somehow. Most police here don't know and don't care about any obscure legalities regarding this.

2. Try and find a larger flow dedicated power steering pump if your first choice is not large enough. 5 and 7 GPM power steering pumps are readily available, and still have all the inbuilt features that a commercial gear pump won't have.

Most higher flow pumps that I have come across are just hot rodded (bored out) conventional power steering pumps. They burn out under full hydro use very often and are expensive to replace. What inbuilt features are you referring to? Several of the gear pumps I have looked at have built in flow and pressure regulators. What would a conventional pump have/need besides those?

3. If you have to go to a commercial pump, try and find a high speed vane pump, rather than a gear pump. Do not under any circumstances use a gear pump with an aluminium housing. They cannot support the sustained heat and high pressure, nor the high revs.

The things I have read point in a completely opposite direction. The aluminum dissipates heat better than steel. My "high performance" KRC pump is aluminum with the steel pump being half the price. The manufacturer told me they went to aluminum because the steel wouldn't hold up at high rpm/heat. The gear pumps I have looked at are all rated well over 3000 psi and 4000 rpm constant speed. Manufacturers have stated in letters that they are able to sustain higher rpms for short periods with no problems. Several people have been running these pumps in this fashion for years with no ill effects. The gear pumps(and a fair amount of vane pumps can be had for ~$100. Versus replacing a ~$3-400 suped up power steering pump at about the same rate, I'll take my chances with the gear driven models(although the vane pumps are fine too I understand they don't do as well at high pressure or life expectancy)

4. You are correct that a commercial pump is not normally built to take side loads like a belt drive. Your idea of an aluminium plate with a bearing in it, is very limited. Most pump shafts are too short to protrude through the aluminium plate and still engage the belt pulley. To use your idea you will also need a stub shaft made to extend the pump shaft - female to mate with the pump, male to mate with the pulley. Some commercial pumps can be ordered with an "overhung load adapter" built into the pump housing. This does allow them to take the belt drive side force.

I have looked into this as well. A half inch thick aluminum plate simultaneously mounts the pump and provides a pocket for the bearing. The bearing is a ~$30 NTN deep groove single roller bearing rated at thousands of pounds of load and tens of thousands of rpms. It is under 3/8" thick. The pump shafts I am looking at would protrude through the plate and bearing with 3/4 of an inch to spare. Even more if you consider that the bearing only needs to be retained with a small lip around the rim so the pulley would be able to mount right up to it "into" the aluminum plate. This eliminates the need for a stub shaft and all its additional complications. The pumps I have seen with overhung load adapters have all been clutched units which cost 7-8 times as much as the unit I am considering.

5. A dedicated power steering pump has 2 vital valves built into the pump. A pressure relief valve, and a pressure compensated flow control valve. If you use a commercial type pump you will have to purchase, mount, and plumb up these 2 extra valves.

See comment above. These two are included in the pumps being considered. They are also duplicated in the Orbitrol valve as well. Being open center with a power beyond port, the Orbitrol only uses what it needs to steer(both pressure wise and flow). Everything else is bypassed straight back to the reservoir(via either the open center or power beyond port).

6. Don't forget that the larger the commercial pump flow, the larger the reservoir required. Rule of thumb is 3 x GPM for the reservoir size. This can be reduced down to 1 x GPM if you install an additional cooler. Dedicated power steering pumps use some internal trickery to get away with smaller reservoir sizes. They also use longer routing of the return lines to allow heat to dissipate prior to returning to filter and reservoir.

Most of these setups(off road hydro steering) run reservoirs sized at about 1 quart. Needless to say, they overheat and it causes issues. One of my first inclinations was that the cooling was way undersized. I am confident the 5 gallons of fluid will be more than enough for my needs. I am infrequently moving a (very) small ram compared to something like an excavator which needs to do it all day long with many large hydraulics loads. The way power steering pumps deal with excess is by internally recirculating fluid. It does cause heat when the systems are under high pressure. The Orbitrol constantly circulates fluid through the entire system, not just internally. Being that I am planning on a 5 gallon reservoir, there are very few places to install it. It is likely going near the back of the vehicle. The lines will be plenty long enough to cool the fluid. A couple heater cores will likely be employed to help cool as they are rated for much higher pressure than conventional radiators. System sizing also plays a huge role in heat generation. Many systems are sized too small and the restrictions cause excess heat. I am going bigger than required on everything, so comparatively, my system will be lower pressure and lower flow than I need.

7. Whatever you do, work out your actual flow calculations very carefully. Engine RPM range, dia of crankshaft pulley and dia of pump pulley and the displacement of the pump in cubic inches/rev (or cc/rev) should give you the right answers. You need enough flow at idle to slowly turn your steering, and not tooo much at high engine revs.

Already done, but the problem isn't in the numbers I get, it is matching it up to the configurations that work with the Orbitrols. My crank pulley is a 25% underdrive unit. With a 6.5" pump pulley, it gives me a ratio of .86 for rpms that the pump sees. My engine is putting out 550 horsepower. At 2,800rpm I am putting out what the stock VX puts out redlined. Pushing my numbers up to 5,000 rpm, I am only turning the pump at 4300rpm. Most regular vehicles seldom see 5,000 rpm, let alone most V-8's. For the very small amount of times the pump will see high rpms and the even smaller window of time it will be exposed to them, I think I'll be OK. Based on my gear calculations, at 3,000 rpm, I am hitting 110 MPH in 5th gear. The problem with these systems is we often need the most flow and pressure when we are going slowly and th least when we are driving fast. I have a PTO capable of driving a separate pump and I was considering that route, but it greatly complicates the steering circuit and seems like a compromise. I personally do not want much flow. In steering, flow equals steering responsiveness/speed. I would prefer a normal amount of turns lock to lock under normal conditions and a lower amount, but still precise while going slow in the rocks. It seems like it could be accomplished through either some Orbitrol trickery or by just throwing some check valves into the circuit to force the KRC pump to go into bypass mode while the high PSI, high flow PTO pump takes over.

That is probably enough for now.
If you need any help sorting through the options of the Orbitrol units give me a yell. Unless you have been especially trained in military driving techniques, avoid any orbitrol unit that will give you live feedback. Otherwise you will break your thumbs as the road wheel hits a rock and the steering wheel spins uncontrollably out of your hands.

I have actually been trained in special military driving techniques, and I can tell you a rig with running large tires and tight steering offroad will break your fingers off every bit as quick as a hydro unit.

I have been retired for a few years now, but still do some consulting work when I am dragged back for particular problems.

For reference, here is where I am getting a good portion of my information:

LINK (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/724253-why-dont-we-use-these-instead-ps-pumps.html)