I got the bug!

[89Vette]

To buy a VX that is.....But I have some concerns I'd like to chat about. I need to decide if my "bug" is a whim I should let pass or if I should listen to my "heart".

I'd noticed a Vehicross or two in my city several years ago. Obviously, sitings since then have been rare. But, there is one owner that must be near my neighborhood -- as I see it 2 or 3 times a year.


BACKGROUND (skip to down to QUESTIONS if you don't like stories!)
FWIW, I've owned 4 Jeeps since 1989. (Two have actually been mine vs the wife's). As you might guess (from my ID), I own an '89 Vette that I'm nearing the end of restoration to "resto-rod" status -- including new motor, interior, paing, and custom body parts. That requires an add'l vehicle for everyday driving when the weather's not great.

My last Jeep was a '91 2dr that I owned until CARS. Even though it only had 105k after nearly 20 yrs, I sent it to be crushed. In hindsight, that probably was a mistake since I've discovered how much better I do with maintenance -- compared to most people. It had the nicer package "Laredo" (which in itself was rare for a 2dr Cherokee) and it was free of leaks and mechanical problems. That's because I repaired every issue as it happened. However, it had to sit outside most of it's life and the paint showed it. Last year, in the midst of the gasoline price crisis, I didn't think it was worth more than $1500. This year, I think a $500 Maaco Paint job would have boosted it to $4500 easily. But, that's done.

Since it's "death", I've shopped for a replacement winter car. With I often return to Jeep Cherokee/Grand Cherokee hunts, I've also considered Escapes, Tributes, RAV4s, CRVs, etc.... Thinking about the intent of CARS, better mpg is what I feel compelled to do. But, let's face it, most SUV-type vehicles under $7500, are old enough mpg hadn't really been considered. In a way, that's the flaw of CARS, but we DID get one NEW vehicle with about 5 more mpg. (It's a Murano).

In Sept, I bought a 1-owner, pristine Grand Cherokee and thought I was done looking. But, I didn't test drive it over 50mph. It turned out to have a bad vibration at hwy speed that made me think the trans converter was bad....or worse, that the engine was imbalanced from the factory. After a few wks, I actually decided the later was the case. So, I sold it.

My search has continued since the wk of Thanksgiving. Jeep, Escape, Tribute has been my theme over and over. When the (higher-than-normal) snowfalls started, prices went up and no deals on 4WD can be found. Anything decent is $7500 and up. Plus, my favorite Jeep has been a 2dr. I've found those IMPOSSIBLE to find -- at least anything except a base, white 2dr with 200k miles. (Who needs/wants that? :thumbdn:)

What do you think happened recently? Yep, I saw that local Vehicross again! For some reason, this time I REALLY noticed it. I realized the Vehicross was the 2-dr SPORT PERFORMANCE-LOOKING SUV I REALLY WANTED! Why hasn't any company been smart enough to build on it's theme??? :_mecker: Even though I get that most FAMILIES don't want a 2dr SUV with low storage capacity, I think the Vehicross looks STUPENDOUS! And, I would have been EASY to make a 4-dr, longer look-a-like. I suspect that would have been BIG! But, I digress. Now, that I've noticed the BEST looking sport SUV, here's my questions/issues.....

[U]QUESTIONS:
The biggey has to do with this vehicle's rare car status. With ~4k units made, who knows how many remain on the road. When demand for parts isn't high, aftermarket/replacement parts must be a NIGHTMARE! I should know, because I'm kinda in that category with a 20-yr-old Corvette. Since way more Vette's have been made, I can't imagine how much worse problems might be with a VehiCross!

If I seriously went to buy one of these vehicles, will most of them be from owners getting SERIOUSLY frustrated trying to repair it -- and decided it was time to pass it one to someone less wise? One piece of feedback on the MSN AUTO feedback said "Vehicross's a fun to own -- if you're mechanical and are willing to pay high prices and wait for special-order parts out of Japan!". In my case, that depends on how high priced, how long to order, and whether parts are being discontinued due to lack of demand! With so few units out there, why should Isuzu even bother to keep parts -- in this sucky world economy? I bet they won't! OTOH, how many parts are interchangeable from other Isuzu's? And, by that, I mean non-body panels/parts? If rarity only extends to body panels, then most everything else can be swapped, salvaged, or even fabricated.

Salvage: Who needs a car where an extra salvage vehicle might be necessary -- just to get parts? Are there sufficient specimens around the US that can be scavenged for parts?

Engine: I've read quite a bit on this site about oil consuption issues with the 3.5L mounted in the VehiCross. Sounds like it might have an issue (from the factory) with piston clearance, ring-end-gap, or some other out-of-spec issue that causes potential early (and sudden?) increase in oil consumption? How bad is this issue really? If bad, between parts scarcity and this, who wouldn't grow to HATE their car? (O.K, sorry. Didn't totally mean that! Quite a few people out there are mechanical and crafty!) Hopefully, though, you see my point.

4WD system: Though Jeeps have had shift-on-the-fly 4WD systems since the 80's, I'm seeing posts about wheel-lock-out-hubs. Do VehiCross owners need to stop, get out, and set wheel locks -- to get 4WD? What's the scoop on this?

Racks/storage: With a roof rack, can you get long pieces of wood and construction supplies from a local hardware w/o issue? W/O a roof rack, I assume the interior is too small (in the cargo area). By long wood, I mean 8ft and longer.

MPG: I don't think these are any worse than Jeep 4.0L I6 motors -- in terms of mpg, but I have to think other early 2000 3.5L 6's were better. That's when the Escape started (along with other cars). It might even be that 99-01 I6 Jeeps improved a couple MPGs. Should I care about this -- especially for a main DD "backup" when my 400HP Vette has to stay home? It ain't no gas-sipper either! (Actually, I hope to get 25+mpg after completion of the 383 stroker. As it sits, it got 30mpg hwy from the factory. That's because of a super-low-double-overdrive. It runs 1400 rpms @ 70mph. Maybe I should consider it my good MPG car! :bwgy:) Seriously, who DOESN'T think gasoline will go back up to $4+/gal within the next 2-3 years? If it doesn't, I suspect it will be because the economy never "recovered".

So, that's my objections...my concerns. If I can get past those "problems", there's a LOT of desire to buy a VehiCross now. Sure, the closest one 4Sale is 500 miles away -- and I haven't driven one yet! But, they sure look HOT!

The have the wide stance I like, wheel flares/trim, spoiler, two-tone interior, appearance inside/out that I like. When I really think about it, it's what I WISH a 2-dr Jeep would have looked like. You should know I've considered a wing and customization to make it look more like a sport SUV. But NOTHING I could do to a square-body XJ Jeep could keep it from looking like a BOX! LOL!

Grand Cherokee's have more style -- but it takes a V8 to make them boogie. If a VehiCross would make me worry about gas, think how bad a V8 Jeep would be!

I think that means I'm down to choosing between an Escape/Tribute or a Vehicross. I'm not sure how many issues would exist with a 100k mile Escape, but the prospects for a VehiCross sound MUCH worse.

So, talk me out of my new love and send me back to my boring-old-4-door-SUV world....Or, explain to me how GREAT owning a VehiCross can be!

Thanks in advance!
Gregg

[89Vette]

This (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/members/55189-greggpenn.html) is me at the Corvette Forum. If nothing else, it gives you a peak at the other car I'm looking for an SUV to "support".

OTOH, why not have two EQUALLY fun vehicles to drive! :yesgray:

[VX KAT]

I'd noticed a Vehicross or two in my city several years ago. Obviously, sitings since then have been rare. But, there is one owner that must be near my neighborhood -- as I see it 2 or 3 times a year.


If it was black, it's probably "navistar", he has 2 of them. In Lenexa, KS.

[VX KAT]

MPG is usually around 13-16 mpg. A few have reported a bit higher, but if bigger tires are added, figure that range.

Parts availability: Many of your points are very well considered. We do have some concerns, especially as time goes on, about availability. The body panels have become the hardest to find parts. The VX does share several mechanicals with certain Troopers & Rodeos....have to read up on the forum for specifics. C4C was great for the VX as several clunkers being parted out have shown up on ebay recently.
We have a good contact with an Isuzu parts guy at a Missouri dealership (St. Charles) who gets us whatever Isuzu parts are available in the U.S. for a discount. Don't know about anybody getting parts from Japan. Take a look on ebay and search "vehicross"...it will give you a really good idea of what kind of replacement parts are available, both OEM and after market.

Oil consumption: This issue is all over the map. Some have experienced none, while others have experienced up to 2 qts/1000 miles. There's a general feeling that the 99s and early 2000s tend to have the consumption problem. One member "iamironman" said he did a ton of research on this and believes Isuzu changed something (I can't recall right now, something to do with piston #5 I think....search will find it) in late 2000 models and improved the oil issue, and then changed something again, that allegedly "fixed" the problem. There's also a thread on the forum about blown engines. Most are from oil deprivation resulting in a thrown rod. There have been several reports where the oil level just drops dramatically & quickly and the engine has blown up.

Recently we started a poll on oil consumption by year, by quantity used in 1000 miles. It's not scientific of course, but it's interesting, the MAJORITY of respondents have NO oil consumption. http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?threadid=17228

Another thing to keep in mind is that there are many many VXs out there with over 100k miles, and a few now with 200k, so you can't complain about that type of longevity! Mine has 69k and it acts like a new engine.

One issue regarding the oil consumption involves the PCV valve. It apparently sticks quick easily and allows oil to be consumed. Most members are emphatic about changing the PCV valve every oil change.

I myself have had my 2001 for 15 months now and have changed it 3 times, 2 of which it was faulty. So we all keep a supply of these on hand. Several but not all have reported no oil consumption after replacing the PCV frequently.

Many of us have had to purchase our VX from many miles away, seems there tends to be more available in the East and FL. Mine came from VA, and I paid to have it shipped to AZ. Mine is rust free, but some have had very minor problems with rust, particularly on the front bar, under the cladding.

The OEM roof rack is so rare now that it's practically worth it's weight in gold. Many of us have them, but many find they want one after they get their VX. I recently procured 3 roof racks (all used of course) for fellow members by begging ebay sellers that were unsuccessful in selling their VX, to sell me JUST the roof rack for about $330. I'm looking for 2 more right now. Seems I have the knack of talking some people out of things :laugho:

Some have added a cargo basket (usually a Yakima LoadWarrior, or Thule Xpedition 695, or 696, or the Black Widow basket. I have the LW for when I carry a full size spare off road, and I just got the Thule 695 this week off ebay for a killer price. I like the look of both. Check out my gallery.

The interior IS a bit on the smaller side, but several guys are at least 6', 6'2" and they fit, depends on how long their legs are. There's been a few that are just too tall to fit comfortably. The Recaro seats are fantastic and have a leg extension bolster in front to support long legs.

Many owners have removed the rear seats. All have said that it's extremely difficult to get into the back...only good for small kids. I sold my back seat to another member. Several of us put up a nice dog barrier and carry the pups in the back just fine!

The VX was marketed truly as a PUV Performance Util Vehicle. It only has 215 hp but weighs about 4100lbs...so myself & hubby having had two BMW M series vehicles...it does not seem fast to us....but it's more than adequate...I'm not out to burn rubber. Where it shines and is amazing is in the off road capabilities. It's full time 4 wd on the U.S. spec edition, so there's no getting out to lock hubs. The 4lo and 4 hi are controlled inside the cab. The JDM edition does have 2wd/4wd. It also has a "Torque on Demand" TOD system, you can read up on that. Many have put on larger tires (OEM were 245/60-16 for 1999, and 245/60-18 for 2000 and 20001). We've found we can get 285/60-18s with just minor trimming of the front cladding. MANY have lifted it anywhere from 1-4" generally, with more cladding trimming.

The fun factor is off the chart for the VX. The looks you get are incredible. Many many times a person thinks it's a new model because of it's way ahead of it's time styling. Most of us on the forum have a full blown "addiction" to this little truck. It's really an incredible truck and almost universally, none of us would trade it for anything! (There's even a poll on that too! :laugho:)

It definitely has it's pros and cons, but we love them and this forum is like no other on the net. Since we're a smaller group by default, we're a close knit family really, and are very very helpful. And besides that, we're a really fun group too! Some crazier than others!

A huge plus for you is that you sound like you can do the mechanical/ wrenching yourself for all or the majority of stuff. That alone would allay any concerns I would have.

Hope this helps. Again, the fun factor and addiction is off the charts!

p.s...thought of starting a kind of "check list" for potential buyers to ask sellers. I'll start this in another thread too. Please add on everybody to make the list better....

~electric windows work properly or bind?
~window regulator /motor been replaced?
~any oil consumption?
~chrome wheels peeling?
~Any ABS light problems?
~OEM CD player still work correctly or ERR3 code?
~brand & model of tires & approx tread remaining
~any alignment issues?
~timing belt changed?
~original OEM brake pads or replacements?
~any service history records?
~last time & what fluids have been changed?
~what type of fluids (synthetic oil or regular, motor oil, diff, tranny, transf case)?
~how long have you owned it?
~Where has the care resided over it's lifetime?
~any known repairs?
~any fluids dripping, ever?
~ever taken off road?
~any problems with TOD?
~any extra parts on hand?

[Ldub]

WoW Kat...whatt'r the odds?...:confused:

That is word for word what I was gonna say...:yesgray:

Welcome Vette! Once the bug has bitten, it only gets worser...:dance:

[Cobrajet]

Hmmm...
Name's Gregg,
Restored a musclecar,
Only wants a sporty 2-dr SUV,
Is mechanically inclined.

I think you're me from an alternate dimension. :)

Finding the "right" VX is the hard part. Mileage shouldn't be the biggest factor. Mine has just over 120k miles, and anybody who has seen it can tell you it is mint. I've had zero oil consumption, and no major mechanical issues. Take your time, there is probably a pristine gem in someone's garage just waiting for you.

[crotchrocket]

WoW Kat...whatt'r the odds?...:confused:

That is word for word what I was gonna say...:yesgray:


lol, lazy git :D


Welcome to the forum!!

[Ldub]

The have the wide stance I like, wheel flares/trim, spoiler, two-tone interior, appearance inside/out that I like. When I really think about it, it's what I WISH a 2-dr Jeep would have looked like.

I think that means I'm down to choosing between an Escape/Tribute or a Vehicross. I'm not sure how many issues would exist with a 100k mile Escape, but the prospects for a VehiCross sound MUCH worse.

So, talk me out of my new love and send me back to my boring-old-4-door-SUV world....Or, explain to me how GREAT owning a VehiCross can be!

Thanks in advance!
Gregg

There IS one other option...:naughty:

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/24824388.jpg

[Mile High VX]

There IS one other option...:naughty:

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/24824388.jpg


That's just plain wrong on soooo many different levels.

Go for the VX Gregg....you'll be much happier...:bwgy::smilewink:bgwo::bgwb:

[VX KAT]

WoW Kat...whatt'r the odds?...:confused:

That is word for word what I was gonna say...:yesgray:

OK first it was PK in my head, now it must be Dub, OMG somebody save me!!!! :freek: AAAAHHHH!!!!! Two nutz in a pod? No,:_thinking, that would be T4B...

I know what it is!....two nanners in a peel....:dan_ban::dan_ban::dan_ban::thumbup:

Sorry vette, you've got lots of reading for any of this to make sense......:p

[rowhard]

Ldub, where do you come up with these crazy picture's

Gregg, with buying any vehicle that is more then one day old, there is always the chance of problems. If you find one you like, check it out thoroughly. do a search for known problems on the pages here and if it checks out, enjoy. Just be prepared to answer questions every time you stop at a traffic light, parking lot,

[VXorado]

The interior IS a bit on the smaller side, but several guys are at least 6', 6'2" and they fit, depends on how long their legs are. There's been a few that are just too tall to fit comfortably.

I was worried about leg room when I first bought my VX, but i'm 6'6" and I fit just fine :bwgy:

VX KAT covered most of your questions, so I will only add one thing... I replaced my jeep with a VX and it was the best decision ever!!

Good luck with the search :winko:

[PK]

OK first it was PK in my head, now it must be Dub, OMG somebody save me!!!!

Hey - let me outta here!!!!

I feel like I am in a big empty box looking down on this wonderful rack.:drool2:

Oh wow - I am in VX Kat's head.
You beauty, now what can I get up to???:evil::evil:

And so as not to thread jack -

89Vette - so you have owned Jeeps and a Vette -
Double the off-road-ability of a standard jeep, and you have a VX.
On-road-ability of the VX would sit nicely halfway between your Vette and the Jeep.
Coolness is about with the Vette. (Gotta remember, I am an Aussie, so Vettes are pretty scarce out here, and well sort after.)

Decision easy.

Good luck and welcome.

PK

[89Vette]

On-road-ability of the VX would sit nicely halfway between your Vette and the Jeep.

Not necessarily IMO. With some minor suspension mods and offset 60 Series tires/wheels, my Jeep had a very wide stance. Cornering went up by leaps and bounds. Plus Cherokees only weight about 3000lbs. Considering my vette weighs 3400, this always bothered me! LOL My Grand Cherokees weighed about 3750. Last night, I just found where VX's top the scales around 3900lbs! WTF! How is it that heavy? Isn't is smaller than a Grand Cherokee?

Consider power-to-weight ratio (since the 4.0L is similar to the 3.5L in power) by looking at a weight difference of almost 1000lbs, it doesn't sound like a VX could "keep up". IOW, I bet a Jeep would run circles aroung a VX on the street. (Make sure you understand I'm not criticizing the VX here, just pointing out the obvious difference -- on paper).

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/greggpenn/JeepWheels.jpg

[89Vette]

There IS one other option...:naughty:

Except for the aluminum cladding, you might have a point! LOL

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/24824388.jpg

[89Vette]

Not necessarily IMO. Cherokees only weigh about 3000lbs. I found where VX's top the scales around 3900lbs! WTF! Geez, how are they that heavy? Consider power-to-weight ratio (since the 4.0L is similar to the 3.5L in power) by looking at a weight difference of almost 1000lbs, it doesn't sound like a VX could "keep up". IOW, I bet a Jeep would run circles aroung a VX on the street. (Make sure you understand I'm not criticizing the VX here, just pointing out the obvious difference -- on paper).

More digging...I found a site that provided 0-60mph times. For whatever reason, the VX's are 1-2 seconds faster than Cherokees. Hmmmmm.....

I guess body shape (drag), and gearing might be better on the VX. Still doesn't seem right! :_confused

[89Vette]

MPG is usually around 13-16 mpg.

p.s...thought of starting a kind of "check list" for potential buyers to ask sellers. I'll start this in another thread too. Please add on everybody to make the list better....

~electric windows work properly or bind?
~window regulator /motor been replaced?
~any oil consumption?
~chrome wheels peeling?
~Any ABS light problems?
~OEM CD player still work correctly or ERR3 code?
~brand & model of tires & approx tread remaining
~any alignment issues?
~timing belt changed?
~original OEM brake pads or replacements?
~any service history records?
~last time & what fluids have been changed?
~what type of fluids (synthetic oil or regular, motor oil, diff, tranny, transf case)?
~how long have you owned it?
~Where has the care resided over it's lifetime?
~any known repairs?
~any fluids dripping, ever?
~ever taken off road?
~any problems with TOD?
~any extra parts on hand?

Considering weight, I guess I know why they don't get better mpg. Any obvious places to remove weight?

Also, nice overall explanation and list for a buyer. Thanks VX Kat!

Since you don't have to lock front hubs (with TOD), why would this be listed as an upgrade on the recent Proton for sale?

[VX KAT]

Considering weight, I guess I know why they don't get better mpg. Any obvious places to remove weight?

Also, nice overall explanation and list for a buyer. Thanks VX Kat!

Since you don't have to lock front hubs (with TOD), why would this be listed as an upgrade on the recent Proton for sale?

I believe you're referring to "crossman"s Proton. I "believe" he and a few others (travelin2) have done the AISIN hubs so they CAN run in 2wd and be towed. (Crossman used to tow his Proton behind motorhome). Guys help me out here:_thinking.
Travelin2 just did some major mods to tow his behind his motorhome too.

One thing I forgot to mention...the OEM shocks are KYBs with reservoirs, which I believe made it the only production car to ever have reservoir shocks as OEM (read that somewhere). These shocks are very high end (around $200 each) and give it tremendous off road capabilities. HOWEVER, many of us have found the kidney jarring ride on rough roads (like dirt/gravel) to be just too much, and many have swapped out for the Rancho XL9000 with the 9 way adjustments (me included). It makes the ride oh so much more civilized on my dirt road here in the boonies where I live. ON road is no problem with the OEM shocks.

To reduce weight...about the only thing I think ya can do is remove the 65lb back seat :laugho:...no seriously, I can't recall anyone mentioning anything. Remember I said, yer not gonna burn any rubber with this truck, but it moves pretty dang good despite being 2 tons!!

[89Vette]

Oh yeah, I forgot to ask about shocks!

I do remember reading that the VX used a unique shock setup. Are you saying any "normal" shock will mount on these?

Shocks were "one" of the parts I was concerned about them becoming obsolete.

Have people found any improvement (power or mpg) with larger or smaller tires/wheels? Sometimes smaller tires will improve torque. Actually, the diameter seems (looks) fairly large for the timeframe of manufacter.

(And, thanks for the guess (?) on releaseable hubs.)

[89Vette]

Hmmm...
Name's Gregg,
Restored a musclecar,
Only wants a sporty 2-dr SUV,
Is mechanically inclined.

I think you're me from an alternate dimension. :)

Finding the "right" VX is the hard part. Mileage shouldn't be the biggest factor. Mine has just over 120k miles, and anybody who has seen it can tell you it is mint. I've had zero oil consumption, and no major mechanical issues. Take your time, there is probably a pristine gem in someone's garage just waiting for you.

Where? Where? I don't see it yet! :bwgy:

FWIW, I am from an alternate universe. But, I'm pretty sure that's different than "two nanners in a peel"! I'm from the planet Obsession -- near the Corvetron and Isuzu sector.
:biggringr

[don moore]

Ldub, where do you come up with these crazy picture's

lol he works hard at his job......:work:

[tom4bren]

OK first it was PK in my head, now it must be Dub, OMG somebody save me!!!! :freek: AAAAHHHH!!!!! Two nutz in a pod? No,:_thinking, that would be T4B...

I know what it is!....two nanners in a peel....:dan_ban::dan_ban::dan_ban::thumbup:

Sorry vette, you've got lots of reading for any of this to make sense......:p

Love U 2 KAT:)

Vette,

The weight on the VX is prolly because of the full boxed frame. You're not gonna shave any significant weight off of a VX unless you REALLY think outsid the box - like tearing it all the way down and replace the frame with a custom built aluminum frame (which would be even stiffer and more prone to cracking). The bottom line is: don't get the VX if you want an economical car.

As far as parts availability - some may be hard to find but if you're diligent and willing to put in the time, you'll be able to keep a VX operational for another 10 years without much problem. The primary concern with parts availability is if you are ever in an accident; the insurance company will probably total the VX even if you don't think it should be. There have been numerous examples of that in recent months.

The locking hubs were mainly put on by certain members who are trying to improve gas mileage/decrease front end wear/set up for towing. There won't be any performance benefits (unless you like doing donuts in snowy parking lots).

If you REALLY want to get hooked on the VX, go to the Download Section here on the forum. We put together a digital picture frame for Moncha back at Christmas. It's a zip file of about 700 pictures of members VX's. It'll take about an hour to look through them all.

BTW - I've seen the other Gregg's Proton. It is mint & very impressive. He & rickshaw have the cleanest rigs of any on the forum.

Don't be afraid to shop for a VX from a distance. I got mine from MO & live in VA. You should be able to get one of our members to check out any that you find & let you know if it's worth it. It only cost about $1K to have mine delivered.

Tom

[VX KAT]

Oh yeah, I forgot to ask about shocks!

I do remember reading that the VX used a unique shock setup. Are you saying any "normal" shock will mount on these?

Shocks were "one" of the parts I was concerned about them becoming obsolete.

Have people found any improvement (power or mpg) with larger or smaller tires/wheels? Sometimes smaller tires will improve torque. Actually, the diameter seems (looks) fairly large for the timeframe of manufacter.

(And, thanks for the guess (?) on releaseable hubs.)

The shocks ARE replaceable with several conventional shocks, no problem at all. Bilstein, Ranchos come to mind. There's also a guy (Bruce something) that rebuilds the OEM ones for about $500 total.

I can't think of a single owner here that has put smaller tires on...I think somebody said 255/55-18s were a tad smaller, nothing significant, and not going to really affect MPG as the OEMs weighed 34 lbs, and just about anything else weighs more than that.

T4B addressed the releasable hubs.

Think you really need to see one in person soon, so you can pull all this info together in your head. I will mention again, if MPG is a big concern, this is NOT the vehicle for you. You'll just be frustrated.

[samneil2000]

I will mention again, if MPG is a big concern, this is NOT the vehicle for you. You'll just be frustrated.

That said, my friend's g/f just picked up a Hummer H3, and they thought my mileage was "pretty good." If I figure mine just based on odometer and fuel, it goes to around 17. I think if you add in the extra inches I have in my tires, it's closer to 19. That's only a couple off what I get in my 2003 Ford Escape...

[VX KAT]

:laugho::laugho: yeah, I know what ya mean, my big bimmer got 12, so my VX is "pretty good" too :laugho::laugho:

Since a lot of this thread has turned to MPG.... a few months ago I noticed "Knight7" had a little "fuelly" logo in his sig line. I went to that site and it's a place you can keep track of your fill ups, gallons, and MPG. Shows a bar & line graph too. Can make notes on each fill up too. Kinda fun. I've been doin' it just to see if the full skid plates & roof rack weight /aero made any difference.
www.fuelly.com
http://www.fuelly.com/driver/vxkat/vehicross

[tom4bren]

Are you sayin that your 'nice rack' ain't aerodynamic??? It makes one wonder.

[VX KAT]

Are you sayin that your 'nice rack' ain't aerodynamic??? It makes one wonder.
:_thinking....:slap: well of course dey R, you nut!...both of dem are!

[SlowPro48]

Strange how 75% of the threads where VX KAT is involved we end up talking about racks. What up with that? :bgwb:

OK to get this train back on the tracks...


Last night, I just found where VX's top the scales around 3900lbs! WTF! How is it that heavy?

Because it's built like a brick sh*thouse, that's how.


Isn't is smaller than a Grand Cherokee?

Yup - and that's a major drawback if you have a lot of stuff or people to haul.


Consider power-to-weight ratio .... a Jeep would run circles around a VX on the street.

If you just consider the power to weight ratio it might look that way but the VX is geared low and the transmission shift points are matched well with the engine's power characteristics so it actually has a fairly "zippy" feel to it. The VX is not fast by any stretch of the imagination, but it's quick enough that it's fun to drive. And for a 2 ton vehicle with high ground clearance, it's surprisingly nimble. Once you get comfortable with the lack of visibility, you can slice through traffic like a border collie through a herd of sheep.


Shocks were "one" of the parts I was concerned about them becoming obsolete.

No worries there - those Kayabas are completely rebuildable and if you don't like how stiff they are, the compression damping can be altered via the shim stack. I wouldn't touch the rebound stack though - unless you're going the aftermarket springs/big tires route. Rebound damping is spot on for OEM springs and wheels/tires.

If you decide to go for it and start looking at VXs, make sure to check the shocks for leakage. Dragging windows can be fixed with 50 cents worth of bungee cord and 30 minutes of your time but leaking shocks means serious ka-ching to rebuild if you want to stay with OEM. I don't know exactly how much - probably in the neighborhood of $600-$800 which believe it or not is half the price of new OEM. But even if you do it yourself (not advised if you haven't worked on shocks before) the parts are pretty expensive. If they're soft but you see no evidence of leaking fluid then you can probably get by with a nitrogen charge. (OR maybe no fluid visible means all the fluid leaked out and washed away years ago :confused:)

They're the floating piston style so naturally the N2 leaks out over time. You will not be able to tell if they need nitrogen just by pushing down on a corner of the car - you can't push hard enough to cause cavitation - they will damp well and appear to be OK at slow shaft speed even if they have almost no nitrogen. Take it for a drive - if they need N2, whacking a few bumps will introduce air bubbles into the shock fluid and then you'll be swaying and diving and boinging down the road. Nitrogen is cheap though. If the VX of your desire has 100K+ miles on it you might want to figure the cost of shock rebuild into your negotiating even if they aren't leaking because like most all things the internals wear and the fluid gets thinner with use.

[tom4bren]

"Tom do you need a pic to verify how aerodynamic...?"

I wish to respectfully decline your invitation as any response on my part would certainly result in cataclysmic results from one source or another.

[89Vette]

Well,,,I did find (on this site) the gear ratios. I was surprised to see the diffs are 4.30's! Now I know how they get this thing to scoot!

MPG isn't the biggest consideration. However, when I finally broke down and bought a V8 (Jeep) last fall, I started to get annoyed by how often the darn thing needed gas. According to the display, I was getting about 12.5 mpg in moderate temps. Dead winter might have shoved it down near 10 mph. That's a little rich for me.

All the past units with 6-bangers never bothered me in that regard. But they couldn't have been much better in reality. EPA says they're only 1mpg different. If I got 14mpg or better in the city, I'd probably be "happy".

I guess my personal guage is whether my Corvette can get better mileage. With the stock motor, it could beat 15mpg around town. And, 30mpg on the hwy! Not sure what the new 383 will get though.

If I bought one and felt it didn't perform any better than my short-timer V8 Jeep performed, I might (secretly) feel I'd made a poor choice. Because a bigger, more versatile car is always better -- if MPG is the same.

I think my biggest concern is the parts situation. Somewhere (maybe this thread), I read that Isuzu stopped selling/importing cars to the U.S. last year. Is that correct? If so, I gotta wonder where you'd go to order a part. Do you have to call overseas? Is everything salvage at this point?

For a backup "go-to" vehicle to my good-weather-only Corvette, it would need to be something that could/would be fairly reliable. And, in the case(s) where repairs were needed, having to wait for weeks/months to find a part would get OLD fast!

Paying more for a respective part -- than for my vette would get annoying too. (I already consider some parts too expensive with a "Corvette tax" built-in. I'm probably not "rich" enough to own multiple money-traps.)

On the other hand, now that I've got the bug, every other SUV looks BORING. I can hardly look at a Jeep anymore. I'm definitely hooked.

[VX KAT]

I think my biggest concern is the parts situation. Somewhere (maybe this thread), I read that Isuzu stopped selling/importing cars to the U.S. last year. Is that correct? If so, I gotta wonder where you'd go to order a part. Do you have to call overseas? Is everything salvage at this point?

For a backup "go-to" vehicle to my good-weather-only Corvette, it would need to be something that could/would be fairly reliable. And, in the case(s) where repairs were needed, having to wait for weeks/months to find a part would get OLD fast!

I actually can't recall reading or hearing that anybody had to get any parts directly from Japan, at least not so far.....chime in here anybody if I'm off.....

vt_maverick summarized the parts availability issue very well here:
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=185994&postcount=2

[Ldub]

Well,,,I did find (on this site) the gear ratios. I was surprised to see the diffs are 4.30's! Now I know how they get this thing to scoot!

MPG isn't the biggest consideration. However, when I finally broke down and bought a V8 (Jeep) last fall, I started to get annoyed by how often the darn thing needed gas. According to the display, I was getting about 12.5 mpg in moderate temps. Dead winter might have shoved it down near 10 mph. That's a little rich for me.

All the past units with 6-bangers never bothered me in that regard. But they couldn't have been much better in reality. EPA says they're only 1mpg different. If I got 14mpg or better in the city, I'd probably be "happy".

I guess my personal guage is whether my Corvette can get better mileage. With the stock motor, it could beat 15mpg around town. And, 30mpg on the hwy! Not sure what the new 383 will get though.

If I bought one and felt it didn't perform any better than my short-timer V8 Jeep performed, I might (secretly) feel I'd made a poor choice. Because a bigger, more versatile car is always better -- if MPG is the same.

I think my biggest concern is the parts situation. Somewhere (maybe this thread), I read that Isuzu stopped selling/importing cars to the U.S. last year. Is that correct? If so, I gotta wonder where you'd go to order a part. Do you have to call overseas? Is everything salvage at this point?

For a backup "go-to" vehicle to my good-weather-only Corvette, it would need to be something that could/would be fairly reliable. And, in the case(s) where repairs were needed, having to wait for weeks/months to find a part would get OLD fast!

Paying more for a respective part -- than for my vette would get annoying too. (I already consider some parts too expensive with a "Corvette tax" built-in. I'm probably not "rich" enough to own multiple money-traps.)

On the other hand, now that I've got the bug, every other SUV looks BORING. I can hardly look at a Jeep anymore. I'm definitely hooked.

:luck:...You almost have yourself talked out of VX ownership.
Maybe best for you to get something more pedestrian, & continue to hang out @ VXinfo, living vicariously through the rest of us...:naughty:
Ya only go around once...always making "safe" choices is boring, but the best course of action for some...:yesgray:

[Cobrajet]

:luck:...You almost have yourself talked out of VX ownership.
Maybe best for you to get something more pedestrian, & continue to hang out @ VXinfo, living vicariously through the rest of us...:naughty:Agreed. My thoughts on VX ownership have always been -- If you have to think twice about it, then you may not be cut out for ownership.

In my case, it was not IF I wanted a VX, but which one. Seeing the brand new Proton in the dealer showroom sealed the deal, even without a test drive.

[89Vette]

:luck:...You almost have yourself talked out of VX ownership.
Maybe best for you to get something more pedestrian, & continue to hang out @ VXinfo, living vicariously through the rest of us...:naughty:
Ya only go around once...always making "safe" choices is boring, but the best course of action for some...:yesgray:

Well,,,if you can't say something more reassuring about parts, repairs, reliability, projected downtime, etc.....then maybe you're right.

I don't consider my Corvette build a "safe" choice by any means. How many people completely redo a car inside & out -- plus install a new motor requiring a specialize tune that I'll be a part of. (Keep in mind that a bad tune could burn up the motor and cost several thousand dollars!)

My last post was more about (parts) availability -- no doability.

Sooo. Where do you get parts??? Does everyone hit these parts distribution warehouses? Are most engine parts available aftermarket? Like sensors, injectors, brake cylinders, etc.... What if a turn signal switch goes bad? Or speedo? Brake pedal switch? You know...the kind of thing that would be a "dealer-only" item. With any car I've owned, there's always SOME parts that are dealer-only.

OTOH, the only part I can remember needing for my complete Vette refurb was a $5 heater rod fastener. Lots of other things need to be procured thru salvage. So, it wasn't the explanation about warehouses that concerned me as much as the comment about "if I'm patient enough,,,I'll find what I need." That's what I mostly would hope to avoid.

[Ldub]

Why MERLIN of course...:yesgray:...:laughing:

St Charles Isuzu...tell him you saw it here for a disc & free shipping...:yesgray:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/00001merlindo.JPG

I was just givin' you a little nudge to see which side of the fence you were gonna come down on...:smilewink

It's really not much worse than owning a Studebaker, Edsel or DeSoto...:laughing:

[tom4bren]

The only part that I had experience with having a difficult time finding was the half shafts & that problem seems to be fixed now. Another member was able to find them available.

Prolly the saving grace for us to find parts is this here forum & the GREAT members. If you're having a difficult time finding something, someone here will bend over backwards to help locate.

[VX KAT]

Between tom4bren, vt_maverick, LDub, and myself, we've definitely exhausted the parts availability issue/question, but I can tell you still have deep reservations....and it weighs 2 tons, gets horrible MPG, & will never be considered fast by a long shot, so, is it really for you..... ?

So here in one place:

~Isuzu warehouses thru Merlin at St. Charles
~Forum members
~aftermarket sites such as vt_mav described
~ebay
~salvage yards (with Cash4Clunkers providing 15 "new" VX carcasses to pick over)

[LittleBeast]

If you are willing to put in some time you can find the parts. I have not run into any huge problems getting parts, and I have fixed pretty much everything myself. Most everything under the skin of the VX was/is shared with one of the most mass produced SUV's ever Trooper/Rodeo, body panels and cladding/trim pieces will be the hardest to find, but once again, scrap yards and this site makes even that not too difficult to find.

If you are in love with the VX like many here you will find a way to make it work, if you are looking for a "smart" choice don't even bother, for us here this is the "only" choice, because this is one of the most unique choices one has to make.

As my dad put it so well one day, "a car to a car lover is not just a car but is actually an extension of who they are, an expression of themselves to the world they drive through." My dad was and is a car lover through and through, and now that the VX and I have shared so many days/nights of blood, sweat, and tears it is going no where no matter what it takes.

[89Vette]

If you are looking for a "smart" choice don't even bother...

Wow! That pretty much sums it up! I'm a smart guy, so I guess that means I have to pass.......

Oh sorry. I was daydreaming. I don't have a lick of sense actually, so I'm not looking for the smart choice -- just not a really really dumb one (that makes my true character so obvious! ;Dy;


If you are in love with the VX like many here you will find a way to make it work.... for us here this is the "only" choice, because this is one of the most unique choices one has to make.

That's closer to what I'm thinkin'

:_beer:

[PK]

It's time to actually sit in one and drive it around the block.
You will either love it or hate it.

I bought mine second hand interstate without ever seeing one in the flesh - one of the most potentially dangerous and stupid decisions I have made in my life.

Turns out to be one of the best decisions.
Apart from the missus and family, the VX is the most valuable thing in my life.
I will never sell it. (Not sure about the missus.)

You will feel this way and buy it, or you won't.
Talking about it won't make the decision for you.

Good luck

PK

[SlowPro48]

I don't want to put words in anybody's mouth but I think by "smart" LittleBeast meant "practical". Despite the conclusions you're bound to have drawn based on the shenanigans you see around here, intelligence and VX ownership are not mutually exclusive.

So don't worry - you can still drive a VX if you're a wise guy - and I truly believe you are.

Ha! Sorry - couldn't resist. Here's a dancing banana for ya! :dan_ban:

I bought my VX off eBay having never even sat in one. I didn't know a thing about them - just saw one in a parking lot, walked around it a few times and knew I HAD to have one. Luckily, I love my VX. I suspect a lot of people on this site are in the same boat. You, however don't seem like the type to just jump into an unknown situation with both feet. You're on here looking up gear ratios checking out parts availability, 0-60 times, vehicle weight, yada yada yada - doing all sorts of research. And that's a good thing. But VX ownership is not a cerebral, practical experience. I agree with PK - you really just need to drive one. Only then will you know if it's right for you.

When I first got mine, one of my office mates went apeshyte over it. Couldn't stop talking about it. Wanted me to help him find one despite my telling him numerous times that it was not the car for him. Hey -it was an easy call - he drove a Buick, wore Mr. Rogers sweaters, sang in a barbershop quartet and listened to ABBA. (I'm not making this up) Finally he got on my last nerve so I handed him the key to my VX and told him to take it for a spin. He never mentioned it again. The point being - a VX is not for everyone.

I personally think you would love a VX. If you're into Vettes then you're obviously no slave to practicality and you also don't mind a suspension that allows you to drive over a dime and call it heads or tails.

Many members have already pointed out that mechanical parts are shared with other models. Engine, transmission, transfer case, etc are not rare. The unique parts are glass, sheet metal and cladding - in general, the things you only have to worry about if you crash.

So why not look at it this way: Drive a VX - if you like it, buy it without regard to your parts availability fears - and make sure you have comprehensive insurance.

If you don't crash, you won't need any hard to find parts.

If you do crash, make sure it's a total (not hard to do these days) and you'll get your money back and either get another one or move on to your next adventure. Then we will circle around your dead VX like a bunch of vultures and pick it to the bone to keep ours going. :bgwo:

Sound reasonable?

P.S. Here's another banana. :dan_ban: I bet a wise guy like you already knows that staring at a dancing banana increases one's IQ. That's why Ldub is such a smarty-pants. You could be a smarty-pants too if you buy a VX and hang out on this site. It's chock full of dancing bananas...

[VX KAT]

Put me in the "never sat in one prior to purchase" category. I knew all about them, had researched a ton and had seen 2 or 3 in parking lots over the years...but I found mine in VA thru Autotrader.com, bought it sight unseen except pics, paid $1,000 to ship it across country to AZ...blind faith I guess. Mine's been a gem.

[tom4bren]

Put me in the "never sat in one prior to purchase" category. I knew all about them, had researched a ton and had seen 2 or 3 in parking lots over the years...but I found mine in VA thru Autotrader.com, bought it sight unseen except pics, paid $1,000 to ship it across country to AZ...blind faith I guess. Mine's been a gem.

I had the same experience as KAT 'cept I had test driven one before.

One of the things that hasn't been mentioned here is that with the VX tight turning radius, you can throw a U-Turn on a 2 lane road without backing up. That makes it even more funner.

[samneil2000]

I found this site and started reading about them, remembered seeing them years before, but never saw them around Memphis really. I decided I wanted one. I found mine in Indianapolis and had it shipped down site unseen, save for some pictures. I was thrilled when I backed it off the car hauler, and it's been a thrill ride ever since.
Since then I've seen 2 or 3 around here. I musta started something. :p
If something breaks, it can be fixed, that's not a big deal. Like the others have said, you just have to drive one and its either for you or its not.
Good luck!

[Mile High VX]

Gotta go with the rest of the gang here as well.

Wanted one when they came out, but couldn't make it work. Saw a Proton in my area about 2 years ago and it felt like the old high school crush came rushing back in...:bwgy::smilewink:bgwo::bgwb:

Found a Ebony last year on this forum close by, drove it, hated it, but it was not well cared for. Saw that it actually came in GREEN (i love GREEN on anything sporty looking) and waited for the right one which I found two months ago. I'll never regret waiting for the right one and I don't imagine I'll ever quit smiling when I look at it.

[navistar]

Gregg,

I'll let you take one of mine for a test drive!

Just remember, it's NOT FOR SALE!!!

Navi

[89Vette]

Gregg,

I'll let you take one of mine for a test drive!

Just remember, it's NOT FOR SALE!!!

Navi

Absolutely! I would LOVE to take you up on that offer! (Can't wait to see what you "guys" are so excited about!!! ) :yesy:

Did you see the PM I sent with my contact info?

Gregg

[navistar]

Could I call you some time tomorrow (Saturday) midday or there abouts. You pick the best time, I'm flexible?

VX1 is in the shop getting a new transmission (still under warranty). I won't have it back until Monday or Tuesday. VX2 is in storage partially disassembled and awaiting warm weather to add all the goodies to make it identical to VX1.

It is VX1 that you should see first but we can talk at length about VXs in general. You don't eat food and drink beer by any chance?

Navi

[89Vette]

Mid-afternoon should work for me.

[alanbradley]

I don't "get" the parts worry. At least the VX was sold in your country - some of us have to sit and squint at Trooper and Frontera (Rodeo) parts and think "well it LOOKS the same..." before taking a punt. With a bit of common sense, some informed spannering and a tame mechanic you can solve almost anything.

Oh yeah, and people look at me when I say my RX-8 is my "economy car" - and that's at UK fuel prices!

Meet Navistar, drive a VX then decide.

G'luck!

Alan

[VX KAT]

So vette, did you take a test drive of Navi's yet? What's the verdict?

[89Vette]

Not yet,,,hopefully this coming week!

We've talked though. He's a nice guy!

BTW: Why doesn't this forum have an email feature? (I feel I'm lucky Navistar saw this thread.)

[LittleBeast]

Oh yeah, and people look at me when I say my RX-8 is my "economy car" - and that's at UK fuel prices!

Yupe me too. I just got my rx-8 back saturday, it took Mazda 3 months and 3 weeks to finally replace the engine under warranty. They didn't even give me a rental until 3 months into the terrible experience!

[89Vette]

First of all, I have to wonder what happened to a couple of replies about my email question. I saw them, now they're gone! WormGod was the last person to reply to this thread (according to the VXTalk FORUM view -- but LittleBeast is the last reply -- once I come inside it.

Was there a rule violation by me or someone else?

Second of all.....Navistar was NICE enough to drive over and show me his VehiCross. The minute I saw him driving up my street, I thought "Too bad the whole neighborhood isn't having a block party to see this!". Needless to say, I was excited to see it -- and meet Bob. Many thanks for your kindness in coming by!

gp

[89Vette]

Next I have to say this in a post by itself:

WOW, I loved the look of that "beast" sitting in my drive!

[89Vette]

I had lots of questions and I got patient replys. Bob's visit was nice in many ways. He looked at my (vette) project and I looked at his. Several modification were done that increased the wow factor like adj rear links, backup cam, navigation, custom rack, grill badge, etc.... I liked it!

After chatting for awhile, he let me buzz around the block. When we got back, I wasn't done talking/visiting -- but I had to leave for a dentist appointment. Ahhhhh! Getting my teeth drilled on was a quick way to bring me back to reality after seeing such a nice rig!

Hope I get to see more -- especially VX2. Getting in the back seat and seeing how it runs on the hwy might be fun too. Informative for sure.

The only "negative" I saw was how high the rpms were at 45mph. I wasn't sure if another upshift was left or if that was the 4:11 gears at work. Accelleration didn't seem faster that my old I6 Jeep either. Maybe I didn't punch it all the way. I wasn't ready to drive someone else's like I owned it! LOL

Gregg

[SlowPro48]

Dude you shoulda stuck it in 2nd, spun it gently up to 4000...
and then stomped on it until it bounced off the rev limiter a couple times.

That's what Navi would do to your Vette. :bgwb:

[VX KAT]

WormGod was the last person to reply to this thread (according to the VXTalk FORUM view -- but LittleBeast is the last reply -- once I come inside it.


That can happen if someone edits a post.....

[navistar]

I did get to meet Gregg briefly, a little over a half hour, and he liked the VX but we just ran out of time. He also wanted to see VX2. Perhaps we can get together soon so he can see and drive both.

This is VX1 as he saw it:


http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/VX13:4Front.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/VX1SideView.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/VX3:4Back.jpg

[RickOKC]

89Vette: THANK YOU for starting this thread! I had some of the same questions and found all the answers here.:thumbup:

[Ldub]

89Vette: THANK YOU for starting this thread! I had some of the same questions and found all the answers here.:thumbup:

I can already tell, the VX feces is gonna hit the fan for you SOONER, rather than later...:smilewink

WeLcOmE !

[RickOKC]

Hey, at least I haven't started buying VX accessories when I don't even have a truck yet. (Well, I have googled "Owner's Manual" not expecting to get one with my purchase.) OK, yeah... I'm screwed. :)

[Ldub]

OK, yeah... I'm screwed. :)

Like I said...You're gonna fit right in round these here parts...:yesgray:

[tom4bren]

Hey, at least I haven't started buying VX accessories when I don't even have a truck yet. (Well, I have googled "Owner's Manual" not expecting to get one with my purchase.) OK, yeah... I'm screwed. :)

Owner's Manual may already be in the Download section.

Screwed ... Blessed ... it's all a matter of perspective!!! As long as you don't go 'Handee' on us, you'll be OK.

[Ozarker]

Could I call you some time tomorrow (Saturday) midday or there abouts. You pick the best time, I'm flexible?

VX1 is in the shop getting a new transmission (still under warranty). I won't have it back until Monday or Tuesday. VX2 is in storage partially disassembled and awaiting warm weather to add all the goodies to make it identical to VX1.

It is VX1 that you should see first but we can talk at length about VXs in general. You don't eat food and drink beer by any chance?

Navi

Hi, I'm wondering if I could take you up on that offer Navistar? I'm in Springfield, Mo. and saw these a couple weeks ago and began researching them. VX KAT pointed me in the direction of several threads and here I am! This site has been the most helpful! I have made a couple offers and I'm glad they did not take me up on them, they were in line with what I have been seeing in the market but dealers are just a little too greedy sometimes! I think I can find a better VX!

Reading this thread is making me stop and think, to be rational about this. I have no idea how many cars I have purchsed, had 23 VWs! My 99 Ford F-150 was purchased new and is the only vehicle I ever kept. So, my implusive nature needs to be curbed a little, I don't need another vehicle, I just want one. My dad told be once-"you can't own them all" but I'm trying to!

In that vain, I'm bad on motorcycles too, seems anything that moves (boats as well). I just purchased an 89 Honda Transalp (rare dual sport bike) and I'll be picking it up next Friday (16th) at I-70 and US 65. Driving over to the KC area wouldn't be a big deal. Or any other time, but maybe I should at least see one of these in person and drive one a few feet (lol) to see if this is really what I have to have! Sorry for so much verbage! Bill