manual transfer case swap

[So-CalVX]

i found a 1998 trooper t-case for $100 dollars...
the question i have is... what would it take to swap out my TOD and install this?
i was thinking it would work because we basically have a short trooper and it came with or without TOD so why can't i have the manual selection instead of a computer controlled 4WD?
also... there are a few smashed up troopers available at any given scrapyard which makes this swap an easy fix if anything else breaks in the future

any input or ideas?

[tom4bren]

Not sure how much the TOD is tied into the main computer. As long as it mechanically bolts up you should be fine but you may get a bunch of CELs if all the sensors aren't happy.

Before you commit, check the TOD error codes, check tire pressure, check all electrical connectors under vehicle, check transfer case fluid level. Ya may want to go to a grassy or dirt area & do some donuts in reverse (really punching it). Whilst your at it, try exercising the ABS - prolly not associated but it never hurts to try.

[So-CalVX]

ABS went out about a year ago...
i'm gonna disconnect the batt while i go to the scrap yard to check that silver vx for a transfer case (and other lil doodads)
then when i get back... if she hasn't fixed herself, i'll take the bee to my buddies garage to see what is up
i will check all connections under nieth and try that reverse donut trick

i think my tod is finally getting back at me... we've never had any disagreements when it came to tread depth or air pressure and once i ran over the fire hydrant everything slowely got worse and worse :(

oh well, atleast i own it... i can buy something cheap and put this monster on the back burner till everything falls into place if i need to

[Triathlete]

Might want to check in over on the Planet to see if anyone there knows if any other t-cases are interchangable. There is a wealth of Zu knowledge over there.

[Knivx]

I'd be very interested to know this as well because I've had these same thoughts rattling around for awhile. Nothin wrong with my TOD (doesn't work in reverse? thats normal right?) I just would like to have the option of 2wd and 4wd lock not to mention low range kits. Plus I see it easier going to a solid front axle without the TOD.

[So-CalVX]

ok.. i disconnected my tod computer 3 different ways...
1) small connecter close to driver - engine revs with brake applied lights still on (afraid to test drive with brake acceleration)
2) large connecter close to passenger door - lights off and two wheel drive (rear wheels) no problems yet
3) both connectors - same as 2

anybody have any advice, warnings, tips or criticism? speak up

[BigMeatVX]

I ran a Trooper tranfer case out of a 99 (gear driven No-TOD) for a few months....after i broke the front out put shaft clean off of ny TOD unit...LOL

No problems with the TOD computer as it is a stand alone computer...

[Knivx]

I ran a Trooper tranfer case out of a 99 (gear driven No-TOD) for a few months....after i broke the front out put shaft clean off of ny TOD unit...LOL

No problems with the TOD computer as it is a stand alone computer...

Does any isuzu tcase work or should I be looking for a certain model or year range? My plan is to swap in a manual case and eventually get a low range kit for it if possible.

[BigMeatVX]

Not all isuzu transfercases are the same...older ones were intergral to the tranny....and cannot be re-mounted up to different casses (W/O special work)
However, 98-later NON-TOD Troops used a tranfercase that is removable, AND is comapible with BOTH the Auto (4l30E) AND the AR5 manual tranny...

I have one of these and they are a good transfer case EXCEPT fro the 2:1 low range....TOO tall.

I dont know if this case is the one that Tera Mfg. makes the lower 4:1 set for, but it could be...

[Triathlete]

You will not find any Tera Lo's for the Trooper case. Matt at Indy 4x bought out the remainder of the run and has rebadged them. They are now known as Revolution gears (https://id211.chi.us.securedata.net/independent4x.com/merchantmanager/index.php?cPath=68_69). Same thing though.:bwgy:

[BigMeatVX]

Hmmm

Never did like that guy much....LOL:p

His are all 3:1....which is not as much of an improvement over our TOD ratio...

[So-CalVX]

so the TOD is a stand alone system? meaning that i just have to disconnect it and swap in a 98+ trooper t-case and maybe hubs for a fully functional 2/4wd selectable VX?
is there a model number/name i need cuz my sis works at a transmission shop and might be able to help me out with a rebuilt T-case

and if i do this will i have 4lo and 4hi? cuz as i sit right now with my tod unplugged i'm running 2wd and 4lo when i plug it back in to go play

am i correct in all this?

[Ldub]

as i sit right now with my tod unplugged i'm running 2wd and 4lo when i plug it back in to go play.

If I'm reading you correctly, there is no reason to plug the TOD back in when you shift to 4-Lo.
The TOD is overridden by a straight 50-50 split when in 4-Lo.

[So-CalVX]

quite right
another weird problem i have is when i plug the dam thing back in OR shift into 4lo i have to key off in order to reset everything i guess is the best way to say it. i have to either shift out of 4lo and turn the ignition off to get 2wd back or turn the ignition off and unplug the computer...
my bee has a temper and i don't like it... though the 2wd is fun in the rain or in a field :D

[BigMeatVX]

what exactly is your TOD doing wrong? The TOD has a seperate computer and the ABS also has its own puter.....

What is it you are trying to gain by going to a different T-case? High range 4x4? If so, there is a way to wire the TOD transfer case so that in High range the 4x4 is always engaged...

[RamAirZ]

Ya me and him discussed this swap not long ago via PM, I think he just wants to get rid of TOD (like me). I like having 2wd as an option as well as 4HI, that and the availability of lower gears is a nice option too. We already confirmed that he can bolt everything up and go, the only sensors that would be screwy would be for the TOD itself but if he already has those problem, well then he probably doesn't care lol

[BigMeatVX]

Hmmm

Ok I was just making sure he realized that he could have 2WD and normal TOD and 4WD-HI range....all with the TOD case he already has...


I have disassembled a TOD case and I can assure folks how it works both internally and externally....:winky:

I will start a new TOD thread soon, with detailed pics of the inside, showing how it functions....AND describe different ways to modify it to folks liking...
Also, some cool new tricks to allow different torque splits at will....:yesgray:

[RamAirZ]

Wasn't someone working on that before and figured out the electromagnetic clutch portion would always transfer a little power to the front or something? Would be awesome for some folks to be able to have 2wd, 4hi, 4lo and normal tod, be nice for 2wd on nice sunny days but pop it in tod for rough weather (snow, rain etc) without being in full 4wd. I like having the simplicity of the manual case and then I can drop in some lower t-case gears.

[BigMeatVX]

Yes well sort of....

With TOD disconect switch, I am in 2WD mode....I can spin the rear tires endlessly, at will, W/O the front getting any REAL torque....the front is VERY disconnected in this mode....

ON the Dyno, folks HAVE had issues with the front wanting to pull a little bit, BUT this is with the front tires sitting still and the rears spinning at 70+MPH!!!
Difficult to repeat in real world driving....

With the TOD 4HI modifacation, you will have 50/50 torque split, (with no delayed grabbing) and this is a one wire mod!!!!

Normal TOD....we all know how that performs....
4Lo- 50/50 LOCKED....TOD is off...

There were some folks, a while back, that were working on a Pulse Width Modulation controller that would have SUPPOSEDLY allowed variable torque....0-50% to front axle....But that plan was scrapped a while ago???....

Nowdays, after tearing into a TOD unit myself, I can indeed see how simple it is to design a modifacation that will allow a steady 30/70% torque split as well, and possibly a few other pre-determined ratios....20/80% ect.....

I may even modify my current TOD unit, so as to remove the shift fork that locks the 4x4 in low range....In other words, I want to experament with LO-Range TOD....I feel that that the clutched design can and will save my CVs!!!! as the multi-clutch plates would absorb much driveline shock!

[RamAirZ]

I've read the write-up Tad did over on the Planet for the 4HI switch, if I change my mind and keep my TOD I was planning on this. Look forward to seeing what you come up with, I have manual hubs up front now and can spin my tires pretty freely as well but of course it's not real 2wd. I thought I read on here that even with the TOD off switch you still send SOME power up front but still, it's less than without it so that's always a plus.

[BigMeatVX]

Im uploading a few pics of the internals for folks to gaze at...lol...

There is a detent spring that holds all the disks in the free position, when there is no power going to the coil (elctromagnet)...SO....there should be very little, if any, power sent thru the front driveshaft in TOD disconect mode...UNLESS of course you incur some sort of drivline shock/torque that could overcome the detent spring....:yeso:

Here are a few pics...notice the 3 balls that sit in the "bevelled ramps"
Pic 2 is ramp down or 2WD
pic 3 is ramp up or 4x4 50/50 split


http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/thumbs/TOD_ramps.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/17765)

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/thumbs/TOD_internals4.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/17768)

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/thumbs/TOD_internals6.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/17767)

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/thumbs/TOD_internals7.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/17766)

[BigMeatVX]

The coil (elctromagnet) actually pulls the back plate away, allowing the balls to travel up the ramps ....


As the balls travel up the bevelled ramps, the two plates get wider...this puts force on the many clutch disks...the harder it turns (driveline torque) the farther up the ramp the balls go and the more force on the plates!!!!

[RamAirZ]

very interesting! Makes me want to go tear my tranny out lol. I love tearing things apart haha, of course putting them back together is always fun too

[So-CalVX]

big meat... my TOD decided to lock up permanently while i was wheeling out on some rocks at the beach... i tried everything listed and other things to get it back to normal but it wouldn't go so i unplugged the computer and that put me in (what i'm assuming is) 2wd. i'm sure the front end is still spinning as i left everything connected but when i disconnected the computer i was no longer locked and i could do burnouts (which i couldn't do with the tod on)
so i am looking for the more info like ram air and i have been chating about on swapping in a roddeo/trooper t-case
from what i recollect i can bolt up an early 90's t-case from either and get a custom longer front shaft and i'll be golden... so i'm looking into that
by the way... i love seeing the insides of anything mechanically relevent to my baby... keep those interesting pics coming :yeso:

[RamAirZ]

I think your front shaft will work but it's the rear that needs modified when going to the manual case, the overall length is shorter on the manual case. The cases before 95' don't have the SOTF motor on them so makes everything a little simpler. The only sensor back there are the VSS and then whatever the TOD uses but since the TOD computer is unplugged you shouldn't see any new issues.

[BigMeatVX]

Be sure to look for a T-case out of a LATE 90s (not early 90s) TROOPER....
Rodeo ones are ALL intergral....meaning you cant just unbolt it and swap it out....

I do have a 99 Trooper T-Case out of a NON-TOD rig...I am not useing any more....(YES I had it mounted on my VX for about one year)
Yes, it bolts right up to the auto 4l30e that we have in the VX...Let me know if you want it....:winkgray:

However keep in mind that this case is ONLY 2:1 in low range....This is the main reason that I removed it and went BACK to the TOD...I know that there are lower gears availble, but didnt choose to go that route....

Lastly, the rear driveline does NOT bolt up....the flanges (and splines) are different... I had to have a new flange made....
And the front output is different as well....
You will need the front driveline off a trooper (I also have this) and it uses traditional u-joints instead of our superior CV style ones....:yesgray:

[RamAirZ]

Not true, early 4L30 t-cases can be swapped out and are EASIER to do because you don't have a SOTF motor on the case, this has also been verified by Jerry Lemond. Jerry believes the flanges on the early case are the same as our VX as well but either way that's not a huge deal, the front length should stay the same the rear should need to be modified. Worst case scenario buy the driveshaft from the donor vehicle just for the flanges in case you need them and if the rear needs lengthened like I think it should it shouldn't be much and any driveline shop should be able to do it fairly reasonable. Only the MUA5 transmissions had integral cases.

[RamAirZ]

Here's a pic of a 92-97 trooper case:

https://id211.chi.us.securedata.net/independent4x.com/merchantmanager/images/uploads/IsuzuLowTcase.jpg

[RamAirZ]

A PM from Jerry:

"YES MANUAL SHIFT T/C WILL BOLT RIGHT ON, AND BEA RELATIVELY EAYS SWAP AS LONG AS YOU USE A 92-95 TROOPER OR 93-95 RODEO, ANYTHING LATER WILL HAVE THE SHIFT ON THE FLY MOTOR ON THE T/C AND THAT WILL HAVE TO BE WIRED UP TO WORK, EASIER TO USE THE MANUAL T/C ,,

DRIVE SHAFTS WILL HAVE TO MODIFIED, SLIGHTLY JUST THE LENGTH, I THINK THE DRIVE FLANGES ARE THE SAME ON THE V/X AS THE EARLY T/C , THE LATER ONES LIKE ON THE 98 AND UP TROOPER ARE MUCH BIGGER, I DONT THINK THE VX HAS THE LARGER YOKE FLANGES , BUT THEY ARE NOT HARD TO SWAP ANYWAY , ANY DRIVE SHAFT SHOP AND SW THEM ,

ANY OF TH E 5SPD 4WD MUAS WILL BOLT RIGHT TO THE ENG AND ANY 3.2 0R 3.5 FLYWHEEL AND CLUTCH SET WILL WORK, , THE PEDAL ASSY UNDER THE DASH IS ALMOST IDENTICAL FROM A TROOPER TO THE RODEO , WHERE IT BOLTS TO THE FIREWALL, BUT THE PEDALS ARE DIFF LENGTH AND DIFF ARCH , AND I AM NOT SURE OF THE ARC ON THE VX , PROB CLOSER TO THE SAME AS THE RODEO, THAN THE TROOPER , WHICH HAS A LONG PEDAL, ARM. ON THE MANUAL 5SPD YOU WILL PROB HAVE TO MODIFY THE CROSS MEMBER AT THE MOUNT , SINCE THEY ARE A DIFF LENGTH THAN THE TOD SET UP FOR THE MUA,"



I thought I had pics of the case I pulled out of a 93' Rodeo when we rebuilt my friends Rodeo but I don't. Here is an ebay link to a case from a 95' passport showing it's removable

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400104246452&viewitem=&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D1&category=33727

[BigMeatVX]

Your right ,

I should have clarified ALL rodeo MANUAL transmissions have an integral T-case...of cousre the autos do not....:sigho:


No need to change the transmission/crossmember mounts though....they are the same....:yesy:

And the flanges both input and output ARE different (as are the spline count)
On the TOD case VS the aisan one (in your above pic):p

That (in your picture) is the exact T-case I have already used in my VX


Lastly the VX DOES use the Larger (huge) flange and u-joint at the rear of the transfercase....not compatable with any rodeo I know of....

Finally, The 3.2 and 3.5 flywheels are NOT the same....the 3.2 uses a smaller clutch disk and the flywheel in not machined for the larger 3.5 disk....
However, if you were haveing the flywheel turned anyway, it would be feasable to have the shop increase the diameter of the disk area to that of a trooper....as the REST of the flywheel is IDENTICAL.....

You could use the 3.5 flywheel in a 3.2 application but not the other way around (without mods, or running a smaller clutch than the 3.5 came with)

[BigMeatVX]

I always thought that the Front Axle Disconect was on the front axle, NOT on the transfer case?????:_brickwal

[RamAirZ]

Ya the 3.5 used a 10 7/8" clutch disc and the 3.2 used a 10 1/4", on the flywheel I have had both off before and they looked identical and all the part #'s I have seen are identical for 3.2 to 3.5, and even replacement flywheels use the same part number. Maybe the aftermarket ones are drilled for either pattern? Also no 3.5 Trooper ever used an MUA5 so that is probably part of it too, they used the AR5. Maybe what jerry meant was either flywheel can be used with matching clutch, either way they would work, both trannies are 1" 24 spline shafts. On the crossmember mounts, a few guys with troopers with TOD that swapped to early model MUA5's (not AR5 like you have) had to modify the mount. The flanges aren't really a big deal either way, just take your D/S in with the new flanges have them swapped.

[RamAirZ]

I always thought that the Front Axle Disconect was on the front axle, NOT on the transfer case?????:_brickwal

The front axle disconnect IS on the front axle, the SOTF motor is, from my understanding, basically for shifting into 4HI, the lever is used for mainly 2WD and LO functions and when you move it into HI the motor engages the gear to make going to 4HI at 55mph easy. Also the front axle disconnect is just on the long drivers side axle. When you put it in 4HI the motor engages the 4WD and sends signal to the vacuum switch on the front axle to engage.

[BigMeatVX]

The front axle disconnect IS on the front axle, the SOTF motor is, from my understanding, basically for shifting into 4HI, the lever is used for mainly 2WD and LO functions and when you move it into HI the motor engages the gear to make going to 4HI at 55mph easy. Also the front axle disconnect is just on the long drivers side axle. When you put it in 4HI the motor engages the 4WD and sends signal to the vacuum switch on the front axle to engage.

Right, thats what I thought...and thats also how our Axiom is as well....

Dont know what model number it was, but my 91-92 parts trooper DOES have a 5-speed that IS integral to the transfer case....and I know its not a AR-5....but then again it wasn't the 3.5....just as you mentioned, lol...:winkgray:

[BigMeatVX]

Ya the 3.5 used a 10 7/8" clutch disc and the 3.2 used a 10 1/4", on the flywheel I have had both off before and they looked identical and all the part #'s I have seen are identical for 3.2 to 3.5, and even replacement flywheels use the same part number. Maybe the aftermarket ones are drilled for either pattern? Also no 3.5 Trooper ever used an MUA5 so that is probably part of it too, they used the AR5. Maybe what jerry meant was either flywheel can be used with matching clutch, either way they would work, both trannies are 1" 24 spline shafts. On the crossmember mounts, a few guys with troopers with TOD that swapped to early model MUA5's (not AR5 like you have) had to modify the mount. The flanges aren't really a big deal either way, just take your D/S in with the new flanges have them swapped.

Both of the aftermarket ones I bought have the same pattern, however I believe MOST of aftermarket is only makeing the smaller disk (3.2) and selling it as the both 3.2/3.5 ones anyway????

[RamAirZ]

Your 91-92 should be an MUA5. Borg Warner also had a transmission offered in some of the early 90's trucks but I believe it's case was removable and it wasn't as common. Ya I'm not sure what's up with the aftermarket flywheels just saw the part numbers were the same awhile back. Either way it's not a catastrophic issue. I'm still debati8ng if I wanna go 5-spd swap with an MUA5 or just swap the TOD case for an earlier manual case. If I keep it auto the wife can drive it if need be, if I swap it, well then I need to teach her how to drive a 5spd lol. At least the MUA5 would be basically bulletproof behind our motors.

[BigMeatVX]

I chose the AR-5 because of the tripple cone syncros (like the world class T-5) and the options of different transfer cases....

At Moab, I watched Corbin break a MUA-5 transfer case in his tricked out Dana 60ed AMIGO on 37s....but he also has twin cases, and that had something to do with it no doubt....he broke the low range in the primary case!

[RamAirZ]

wow, I'm sure those 37's and dual cases did have something to do with it lol. Was he running stock gear sets or Revo gears? I know a guy running a turbocharged pup with an MUA5 pushing over 300rwhp (not a whole lot honestly but more than we throw at it) and it holds up just fine. Either way ya go they are stronger than the stock 4L30E lol. The world class T5 wasn't all that strong honestly. Start throwing down some real power at em' and you'd blow em' up just like any other T5 in the Camaro's and Mustangs. TKO's all the way on that front! But sticky tires and lots of power will do that. The AR5 is also used in the solstice and the Mallet conversion folks keep it behind there stock LS2 conversions, but they don't recommend drag radials or slicks using it. The AR5 is very similar to the toyota R154

[BigSwede]

My MUA5 has held up nicely so far with 35s...3+ years and 4 trips to Moab.

[BigMeatVX]

The AR-5 is also used in the H3 and Canyon/Colorado trucks and has a larger input shaft and different rear transfer-case bolt pattern as well...FYI

[RamAirZ]

Yup, just used the solstice as an example for the power output part ;) I've done my research on that AR5 when I was going to use it in a Firebird build up in our shop. The truck versions also use a different gear ratio in 3rd than the Sky and Solstice versions. The truck versions also have a different shifter position and the "GM" AR5's use a 26 spline input, where as the Isuzu one is 24. The diameter is 1 1/8 instead of 1" but they use a smaller clutch disc than the Trooper AR5 setup. Also their bellhousing bolt pattern is different on an Ecotec engine, similar to like a 60 degree V6 but not quite, it's special. And BigSwede, what kinda clutch are you running in yours? I know my MUA5 held up nice on just 33's in the Rodeo and my random trips for over a year but nothing like what you put yours through

[RamAirZ]

How do you like your Axiom Allan? My wife has been thinking about getting rid of her newer Camry for an SUV and I'm thinking of convincing her to get an Axiom lol

[BigSwede]

And BigSwede, what kinda clutch are you running in yours? I know my MUA5 held up nice on just 33's in the Rodeo and my random trips for over a year but nothing like what you put yours through
My clutch is, um, whatever it came with when I bought it with 108K miles...

I will say the Teralow (aka Revolution) gears probably save the clutch some grief off road...

[RamAirZ]

Ya I know when I was going through the rock garden in Gorman that Tommy smelt a little clutch lol. Stock gears, stock clutch (or whatever was in it when I bought it) on 33x12.50's lol. I'm hoping to do some revo gears soon when I swap either tranny's or t-cases

[BigSwede]

Attention to anyone contemplating a manual tranny swap - there is a guy on the planet parting out a manual tranny 99 Trooper.

http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?p=321049#321049