Doesn't look good for my VX future...

[89Vette]

As mentioned in a couple of earlier threads, I decided I wanted a VX. I've looked every day for the past 6 months to find one close enough to even consider buying. Finally, I stumbled onto one close enough to look at.

It was about an hour away. It was advertised as a one-owner '99 VX with 60k miles. Seller said it had been garaged parked. The only problem mentioned on the phone....he'd hit a tree limb and poked a hole thru the front bumper. And, there was slight leather wear. Asking price was close to $9k. I asked if he'd consider $8k. He said yes.

So, I'm all pumped thinking I'm going to get into a VX for a good price. Though it was more than I wanted to spend for a 2nd (backup) to my Corvette build, the mileage made up for the price.

The next day and 1:15 hr drive later, I get to see (what I hoped to be my next) VX.

It wasn't just the bumper that had a hole poked in it. The grill was badly scrated, the hood was badly scratched, the hood insert had two large "pimples", the motor was dirty, the undercarriage was past mild rust, the cladding was FADED, the interior was DIRTY, the leather was closing in on being cracked, the steering wheel was covered to hide being worn thru, and there was some vibration when I drove it.

Of course the 60k odometer was a plus and I didn't see any seal/fluid leaks. The paint on the sides and roof wasn't bad either. And, it has the "coveted" roof rack!

I pleaded and pleaded for the owner to consider $7k. I could easily see paying $500 (bumper), $500 (hood paint), $250 (grill), $1000 (leather replacement), $400 (tires for vibration), $250 (steering recover), and $300 (cleaning and cladding coloring.

For $3000, I could have gotten the superficial problems solved. But that left of question of undercarriage rust, lack of apparent care, and any other unseen mechanical issue that might not be apparent during a 15min test drive.

The owner had purchased for $10.5k and driven for 2yrs. After adding about 15k miles, a damaged front bumper, grill, and hood paint job -- plus a LOT of add'l dirt/wear to the interior, I could not understand how he determined the vehicle had depreciated only $2,500. Really, I'd put money on the undercarriage rust having occured during his ownership too.

But, this guy INSISTED that people would be happy to pay $8k for a 60k mile VX -- despite all those issues. To be honest, I can't say that someone, somewhere wouldn't just do that either. Though I thought he was unreasonable, unappreciative to what he let go (deteriorate), and unappreciative of what I still was willing to offer, I kept trying the route of reason. But this guy would NOT listen. Finally, though I did not say it out loud, I wondered how he could have the nerve to advertise it as a one-owner vehicle. He was AT LEAST the second owner and he bought it from a lot. (In my mind, it only takes one "fib" to make me a suspicious buyer.)

It would be interesting to hear if people think I am ignorant of this vehicle's "special value"/appeal. And, that I should've been willing to ignore LOTS of mistreatment -- just to gain a 60k mile specimen. As my frustration and suspicion grew, I realized the manual wheel'd odometer isn't tamper proof; that the vehicle looked way worse-for-the-wear than Navistar's 140k "jem"; and that I couldn't be sure that an investment into an odometer alone was smart, so I left. For all I knew, this VX could have been rolled back from 160,000 miles.

I left dejected and disappointed. As I drove the long trip back, I decided that the demand of this vehicle just might outweigh the ravage of time. And, that my initial hope of getting a VX for a similar price as a comparably priced/worn Jeep is unrealistic.

Though I was dumb enough to forget to take a picture of the sad nose of this VX, I did manage to snap a few pics of the NEGLECTED beast with my phone.

Here they are:
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/greggpenn/0410001241.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/greggpenn/0410001242.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/greggpenn/0410001243.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/greggpenn/0410001243a.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/greggpenn/0410001244.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/greggpenn/0410001245.jpg

Actually, what I saw on the way home ended up being the best part of the trip....LOL
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/greggpenn/0410001450a.jpg

I'm not sure I'll come back from this 6-month search and huge setback. At this point I'm fairly certain I'll cave and go back to a Jeep -- as I've owned for the past 20yrs. Yeah, people are too damn proud of them too -- but at least it's possible to find one reasonably priced -- within a reasonable distance.

:sigho2:

[Knivx]

In my honest opinion I feel the VX holds it's value similarly to a Wrangler does. It'll always be the most expensive model of the brand for that particular year. Don't let that bad experience turn ya off though. I was asking less for my 69k VX that is in better shape than that one so imho he was a little high. Maybe ya could convince me to put mine back on the market but I figure Idaho is probably further than ya'd want to travel to get one:bgwb:. Don't give up hope, if ya want a decent VX just keep looking, that perfect one (for you) will come along eventually. Don't settle for a Jeep if it's not what ya truly want.

Edit: Plus they made millions of jeeps. Yet only a few thousand VX's.

[89Vette]

Thanks for the words Knivx. If we did live closer, I'm sure we'd be talking. Bob (Navistar) has been a gracious host in providing me with a connection to learning about the VX, seeing them in person, and even driving one.

Without that reference, I might have been slightly more tempted to consider my find -- though doubtful. Still, he clearly showed me was reasonable wear for this particular vehicle is. And, really, it doesn't wear faster/slower than any other well-treated ride.

The last nugget I discovered just before leaving the demo was the owner had messed up his grill because he put it in a ditch. (Hello possible cause of the drivetrain vibration). Throw that potential problem into the mix and you got one dillusional seller.

My biggest constraint at this point is time. I'm shocked that I haven't replaced my winter vehicle -- especially since my Corvette is still being restored. For six months I've held out -- hoping to find a VX before being forced to buy a Jeep. I drove the car we bought for my daughter. She's now 16 and thumping her foot to take the reins. The proverbial foot is about to fall.

[Knivx]

My biggest constraint at this point is time. I'm shocked that I haven't replaced my winter vehicle -- especially since my Corvette is still being restored.

Not winter anymore. (Here in Idaho we never really got one.) So see ya have time to find that VX.:yesb:

[Kona-Vs]

You might want to try putting a VehiCross wanted on all the craigslist within your driving range. You'd be surprised how many people don't have them listed but are willing to sell. It worked really well for me when I was looking to buy

[89Vette]

You might want to try putting a VehiCross wanted on all the craigslist within your driving range. You'd be surprised how many people don't have them listed but are willing to sell. It worked really well for me when I was looking to buy

Believe it or not, I've tried this 3 times. Within 24hrs my posts are always flagged and removed. I guess there's other trolling for VX's that don't want someone posting an outright ad to buy. (They don't want to miss out).

FWIW, 2 of the 3 WTB Craigslist posts brought replies from people wanting to know when they could come look at my VX! Morons.

Note: My craigslist ad(s) said....WTB Vehicross -- preferably black. Please contact me IF you have a Vehicross for sale! (phone). Pretty hard to mistake that for a sale post!

[vt_maverick]

If you want a nice VX, you just have to be patient and/or willing to travel potentially long distances to inspect/pick one up. Don't be discouraged by this one guy - I've had similar experiences at a Nissan dealership and when buying a used Honda private party. The used car market is full of snakes my friend, the only difference here is that the guy was trying to use the rarity factor to bully you into buying. Buying in a hurry almost always = regret later, and I think that will be true with buying a broke-down VX or a new Jeep.

Btw, tell your daughter to suck it up. She's fortunate to have a car to drive at all at 16, whether it be yours or her own. Tell her to get a job at McD's and buy one herself. Sorry, that's what I was forced to do (started my first job at 14.5), so I don't have much sympathy for kids who whine about a car.

[Mile High VX]

Took me over a year to find the one that was righ for me.

I had a similar experience here in CO. Ebony listed as great and when I got there it wasn't and it didn't really drive that good either. They were asking $10,500. Felt terrible and went out and bought a Honda...:p

7 months later a Dragon came up for sale...you know GREEN..the best color...:yesgray::yesy::yeso::yesb:

So 9 months after I bought the Honda I ended up getting the VX and selling the Honda...(actually I sold my son's Honda and let him buy mine so he could get away from the payments while going to college...worked great for us both. He a great kid for 19)...:thumbup::thumbup: Paid less money for a lot more VX! (thanks jemorga)

Keep looking...your's will come along.

[BigSwede]

the motor was dirty

You call that dirty? That's just a little dust, my friend... :bgwo:

Hang in there, it took me 6 months to find my RS...and it was over 1000 miles away.

[RickOKC]

Hey Vette,

A few thoughts I have as a fellow shopper:

* I fully expect the owner of ANY vehicle would never consider that the engine compartment shouldn't be greasy & dirty (multiply by 10 if the owner is a professional mechanic.)

* A leather 10-year-old driver's seat & steering wheel will need to be recovered and should be in the budget if that's important to you.

* MANY people don't even wash their cars. Only .00000001 percent who have vehicles with lower plastic cladding have a clue that it can easily be "restored" from light gray to factory awesome. YOU will have to do that yourself.

* Everybody thinks their crappy vehicle is worth it's weight in gold.

Don't give up, buddy!

[89Vette]

* Everybody thinks their crappy vehicle is worth it's weight in gold.

Yeah, I get that. People want to get the most back out of their (expensive) vehicles -- but VERY few understand how to accomplish that. As KBB notes, less than 5% of vehicles can be considered in Excellent condition. I think that's because fewer than 5% of the population is willing to service, restore, and/or keep up a vehicle as required/recommended.

How many SUV owners NEVER consider changing diff/transfer case fluid? How many never change antifreeze? Or brake fluid, power steering, or transmission fluid. How many never apply leather conditioner to leather seats? Or weatherstripping conditioner? Or even wash underneath to remove corrosive salts/dirt that traps moisture?

Hardly any is the problem. Take that percentage and apply it to the number of VX's remaining in the U.S. People, it would be rare to find a well taken care of VX. (Though the percentage of good caregivers is bound to be somewhat higher on $30k automobiles. It's probably those multiple-owner-vehicles who let them go to crap -- thinking depreciation will escape their special world.

Granted, the best specimens (like I'm describing) have to warrant a good price. But, when it NOT there, it gripes me that people don't admit they're cheap-*** abusers!

I sold a 97 Limited Grand Cherokee one year ago for $4k. It had 140k miles but I done every service described above. I advertised and sold it for $4k because I felt it right for (still higher) gas prices back then, the environment, the next owner, etc.... I thought it was a fair price. (Actually, I sold it at "FAIR" price -- even though it was in "Excellent" condition. I was TOO "fair".) Compared to what I'm seeing in the used SUV market now, I should have asked retail. I was a slep by being fair.

FWIW, the VX seller (who's subject of this thread) said he wanted to sell to someone who'd better appreciate the VX mystique -- and take good care of it. Considering what it looked like, they knew NOTHING of that themselves. And, they expected someone else to pay for their neglect. According to them, they could give it to the kids, but knew they wouldnt' appreciate it. Pretty darn ironic IMO.

I also traded a 91 Cherokee in on CARS last summer. Though it only had 105k miles on it, the faded paint and age made me think it couldn't be worth more than $1500. It's engine -- as with the 97 JGC was clean and well-serviced. It did have rust underneath -- but it had to stay outdoors (for the vette). Still, it's rust wasn't more than the '99 VX that SHOULD have spent most (if not all) of it's life in a garage.

Every vehicle I've owned since 1985 has been in my possesion for at least 10yrs. I'm one of those few people who understand how to take care of them. That's the problem. I expect others to be as "smart". Since vehicles represent the biggest depreciation people incur, they assume neglect is the answer to minimizing that expense. In reality, it's the opposite.

Spend the time necessary to find THE vehicle you like, take good care of it, and it can last well beyond what you think. In that regard the VX seemed perfect for me. With regard to mpg, performance, utility capabilities, etc... it's not the best choice. I think most VX owners realize that -- and buy one anyway.

[89Vette]

* A leather 10-year-old driver's seat & steering wheel will need to be recovered and should be in the budget if that's important to you.

I disagree. My 140k 10yr-old JGC and 20yr old vette have near perfect leather seats and steering wheels. Plus, I've seen plenty of VX's on this forum with better than average leather. As mentioned in my post above, it's a matter of knowing how to take car of what you have. If you don't and aren't willing to accept the monetary loss, you're robbing enjoyment from yourself and/or the next owner. Spend $20 and treat your interiors! Or, be willing to lower the value at sale so the next owner can replace/recover their seats at $1000. That's what I mean by cheap!

People willing to pay for this cheap-*** neglect (without demanding concessions) are the ones who propagate higher prices for crap. READ those description on car values VERY carefully. Otherwise, you too will be "taken to the bank".

As someone passing into his 50's, I no longer refuse to be ignorant. I'm too old for that now! LOL

[WormGod]

Mine is garage kept too and doesn't look THAT rough, but that's also because I try to keep it clean as much as possible before it gets rest in it's cage.

Those seats don't look like they have EVER seen conditioner. Nothing a little elbow work won't remedy though. There are some great products out that will bring them right back.

I'll bet after a good, solid, day long detail, it could look brand new. In all, it's got 60k which makes it a baby in the VX world. Still a good buy IMHO. You can have mine for $20k.... cash. 50k miles and S/C'd. ;)

[89Vette]

Detailing still doesn't address the issue of road vibration, whether is might have been rolled back, the damaged paint and bumper.

I've also used/restored some distressed leather myself. I'm not convinced these would look "great" after treatment.

FWIW, here's what I think a well-kept 60k mile VehiCross SHOULD look like!
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=277471778

[circmand]

all around the country. Before taking a long trip ask for a member to check it out and see if they think it is worth checking out.

[MSHardeman]

DITTO!!

When I was hunting for my VX I found a Foxfire in Ohio that I wanted very badly, but when I had a couple of local members go check it out their reports turned me off. Nothing major, just didn't feel right from what they where saying. Continued my search and found a nice Ebony in Chicago. Had a couple of members there go check it out for me and they told me to "GET IT NOW!!" It was in great shape with low miles. So, their reports coupled with the pictures from the dealer convinced me to fly out to Chicago from Colorado, buy her and drive her back across the country. Haven't regretted it a minute since.

[RickOKC]

I disagree. My 140k 10yr-old JGC and 20yr old vette have near perfect leather seats and steering wheels. Plus, I've seen plenty of VX's on this forum with better than average leather. As mentioned in my post above, it's a matter of knowing how to take car of what you have.

DOH! Of course I should have made it clear that I was talking about "typical" people - not those of us who enjoy driving "new" vehicles no matter how old they are!

[circmand]

My driver seat after 10 years had started to crack. I checked on reupholstry (too expensive) a used seat (why are all available red/black) seat covers (Wet Okole never has a sale) finally found a guy on craigslist who repairs interiors. For $100 he repaired the cracks and recolored the entire drivers seat. The seat still has wear creases but the cracks are no longer visible.

[slutty22]

I have tossed around the idea of selling mine, Im thinking for the amount I spend in gas on this thing I might as well buy a muscle car, its a 99 silver with around 115k miles but you wouldnt know it by looking at it. I have pics in my gallery and im in indianapolis if your interested.

[89Vette]

I have tossed around the idea of selling mine, Im thinking for the amount I spend in gas on this thing I might as well buy a muscle car, its a 99 silver with around 115k miles but you wouldnt know it by looking at it. I have pics in my gallery and im in indianapolis if your interested.

Your right there. Most modern MPFI V8's get similar gas mileage to these VX's.

After driving 3 of them, one common thread I see is the design of the TOD system. There seems to be more drag that other 4WD/AWD vehicles. Also, a bit more drivetrain vibration too. Besides the 4k pound weight, add'l drag in these drivetrains might be contributing to lower mpg.

I did find they are little snappier than my first impression, but they don't have the power you'd expect from a vehicle with their mpg.

Also, thanks for the offer. To drive that far, I'd be looking for my favorite color, which is BLACK! (I'm on a roll -- having owned all black cars since 1989).

[WormGod]

Also, thanks for the offer. To drive that far, I'd be looking for my favorite color, which is BLACK! (I'm on a roll -- having owned all black cars since 1989).

$20k, S/C'd Ebony VX, 51k miles.... I know the owner. :p

[89Vette]

$20k, S/C'd Ebony VX, 51k miles.... I know the owner. :p

I'll be right there! Oh wait,,,you didn't give me your address. DARN!

Yet another slips thru my fingers! :tweed: