Grif
04/18/2010, 01:01 AM
I never posted this issue with my 2000 kaiser, instead lurked the forums and searched to find the solution to my idle probs.
Basically my idle was high, intermittent but steadily got worse over time. It would idle about 1500-2000 RPM sometimes higher. It began intermittent, then evolved to a steady prob. Once it got so bad that I could idle at 35mph down the street, I figured it was time to do something, and my fuel consumption was horrible.
Began with cleaning the MAF sensor with MAF safe cleaner. No joy.
Then cleaned out the throttle body which had a brown flaky dusty buildup. Used regular carb cleaner on that, cleaned up as best I could and shot the cleaner thru the throttle boddy "flap" via propping it open with a screwdriver and shooting the cleaner deep inside. Brownish varnish colored effluent came out, so I continued to spray and gently wipe the innards till no trace of brown was flowing out under the bottom of the flap valve and no brownish flakry dust was evident. Having read here on the forums that a intake manifold gasket may cause idle issues, and since I had a can of carb cleaner/ starter fluid cleaner in hand I sprayed around the intake gaskets while running to see if the engine would respond via sucking in the fluid thru gasket cracks. No joy. No leaks obvious and the idle probs continued.
Then cleaned out the pcv valve was really nasty, tho the valve had rattle to it (as it should if you remove it and shake it meaning the internal valve CAN move) when I cleaned it out with regular carb cleaner all sorts of nasty brown stuff came out. Used about 1/4 spray bottle of carb cleaner to do that alone till the cleaner came out reasonably clear and the black carbon buildup was not so bad. I could tell the internal valve workngs were moving better as evidenced by a more dramatic rattle when shaken. Moderate joy! The engine ran smoother, acceleration was much improved and smoother and more responsive. But the idle probs were as bad as ever.
Thanks to this forum I had a few more ideas. I removed the IAC (Idle Air Control valve) Inside it was nasty nasy with carbon. In fact as soon a it was removed a "chunk" of carbon about the size of a fingernail tip fell out of the IAC cavity. I cleaned the valve itself and its hole as best I could. The hole where the IAC sat came clean fairly quickly, I used regular carb cleaner, again till the effluent ran fairly clear and no black carbon evident. The IAC valve itself was prolly good enough to re-use after cleaning as best I could with carb cleaner, but hardened deposits on the spring and plunger would not go easy. Luckily I went to autozone and had purchased a replacement just in case. Replaced the valve. More moderate joy! The idle probs were not steady anymore, but intermittent again and unpredictable. At least it would SOMETIMES idle ok.
While at autozone I also picked up a TPS (throttle position sensor) simply because if all I had done had not worked, the TPS was the last of the EASY fixes here on the forum. Removed the TPS, there was some dirt in there, and the contacts where the plastic meets the metal tougne of the throttle control had some black build up. Lord only knows why, as the TPS is a fairly simple and sealed unit with no accessible innards to clean. I distrusted the black buildup on the plastics tho, and replaced the TPS too.
Starting up the VX was a bit chuggy, and the idle did not submit immediately. I ran it up to 3000 rpm for a few secs, then let off the throttle, it went down to 1500. I turned off the Air conditioner and all other accessories, and reved up again. Idles back down to 1000! Turned off engine, started again idle went to 2000, then went back down to 1000 on its own! This was starting to look good.
Turned off the engine, waited 30 secs, and started again. Idle at 1500, turned on the air conditioning, idled at 1000. Cycled thu gears to see whta it would do under a modrate load, and idle went to 1000 under load of the AC and in gear!! Stil a bit high when not under load of the ac or in gear.
Drove around the like that, starting/stopping, testing all gears, ac on/off, stereo on/off to test the electrical load. Then took it back home. I knew I was 90% good at that point. The went home and shut it off.
I took the time to put my tools away, clean up and let the VX sit and think abuot it for a few minutes. (yes vehicles think, I fix computers for a living and I know they can be intimidated into working correctly if you just show it who is boss! j/k kinda lol)
Went back out, fired up the VX, idle was about 900... YAY!! Turned on Air Conditioning, idle about 850. Turned off Air Conditioning, put in gear, idle didnt change. Turned on AC and stereo loud... no change in idle. Took it for a ride for a few miles, smooth accell, quiet engine, ran it thru all gears a few times, stopped at stop lights just normal stuff. Idle is rock solid.
Took it back home, let it sit and think some more (hehe) then took it for a 2 hour drive to Florida. Sweet, all the way. No idle probs. Engine sounds better than ever and throttle up is as smooth as throttle down. JOY!!!
I know some ppl here say about 750 is normal idle, but I'm happy right now with approx 850-900. At least I dont have to foot the brakes sitting at stop lights.
I thank you all at this forum for helping me tackle this myself. Total work time was about 3 hours, total research time was about 15 hours here on the forums (but I'm kinda anal about reasearch since I'm not much of a greasemonkey). Total spending breaks down approx:
$7 for CRC Mass Air Flow Sensor cleaner
$6 for Chemtool carb and throttlebody cleaner
$10 for Seafoam sensor safe general cleaner (which i did not use much of, but prolly should have been the first thing to try but not sure if it is MAF safe)
~ $45 for the Air Idle Control Valve (autozone)
~ $22 for the Throttle Position Sensor (autozone)
Total $90.
This does not include tools such as a #20 Torx bit for removing the parts, screwdrivers etc (all that stuff I had already, and so should you!)
Total actual parts cleaning/replacements time about 1.5 hours. Should be about 30-40 mins if you know what yer doing.
In short, THANK YOU XV.INFO!!!! Too many posts and ppl to mention, I wish I could thank you all individually for your efforts.
I know its not perfect, but this poor vehicle was neglected for years by the original owner, I know I'm just trying to mop up after years of neglect with very little resources at my disposal, and you folx come thru like champs.
THX again,
Josh
Basically my idle was high, intermittent but steadily got worse over time. It would idle about 1500-2000 RPM sometimes higher. It began intermittent, then evolved to a steady prob. Once it got so bad that I could idle at 35mph down the street, I figured it was time to do something, and my fuel consumption was horrible.
Began with cleaning the MAF sensor with MAF safe cleaner. No joy.
Then cleaned out the throttle body which had a brown flaky dusty buildup. Used regular carb cleaner on that, cleaned up as best I could and shot the cleaner thru the throttle boddy "flap" via propping it open with a screwdriver and shooting the cleaner deep inside. Brownish varnish colored effluent came out, so I continued to spray and gently wipe the innards till no trace of brown was flowing out under the bottom of the flap valve and no brownish flakry dust was evident. Having read here on the forums that a intake manifold gasket may cause idle issues, and since I had a can of carb cleaner/ starter fluid cleaner in hand I sprayed around the intake gaskets while running to see if the engine would respond via sucking in the fluid thru gasket cracks. No joy. No leaks obvious and the idle probs continued.
Then cleaned out the pcv valve was really nasty, tho the valve had rattle to it (as it should if you remove it and shake it meaning the internal valve CAN move) when I cleaned it out with regular carb cleaner all sorts of nasty brown stuff came out. Used about 1/4 spray bottle of carb cleaner to do that alone till the cleaner came out reasonably clear and the black carbon buildup was not so bad. I could tell the internal valve workngs were moving better as evidenced by a more dramatic rattle when shaken. Moderate joy! The engine ran smoother, acceleration was much improved and smoother and more responsive. But the idle probs were as bad as ever.
Thanks to this forum I had a few more ideas. I removed the IAC (Idle Air Control valve) Inside it was nasty nasy with carbon. In fact as soon a it was removed a "chunk" of carbon about the size of a fingernail tip fell out of the IAC cavity. I cleaned the valve itself and its hole as best I could. The hole where the IAC sat came clean fairly quickly, I used regular carb cleaner, again till the effluent ran fairly clear and no black carbon evident. The IAC valve itself was prolly good enough to re-use after cleaning as best I could with carb cleaner, but hardened deposits on the spring and plunger would not go easy. Luckily I went to autozone and had purchased a replacement just in case. Replaced the valve. More moderate joy! The idle probs were not steady anymore, but intermittent again and unpredictable. At least it would SOMETIMES idle ok.
While at autozone I also picked up a TPS (throttle position sensor) simply because if all I had done had not worked, the TPS was the last of the EASY fixes here on the forum. Removed the TPS, there was some dirt in there, and the contacts where the plastic meets the metal tougne of the throttle control had some black build up. Lord only knows why, as the TPS is a fairly simple and sealed unit with no accessible innards to clean. I distrusted the black buildup on the plastics tho, and replaced the TPS too.
Starting up the VX was a bit chuggy, and the idle did not submit immediately. I ran it up to 3000 rpm for a few secs, then let off the throttle, it went down to 1500. I turned off the Air conditioner and all other accessories, and reved up again. Idles back down to 1000! Turned off engine, started again idle went to 2000, then went back down to 1000 on its own! This was starting to look good.
Turned off the engine, waited 30 secs, and started again. Idle at 1500, turned on the air conditioning, idled at 1000. Cycled thu gears to see whta it would do under a modrate load, and idle went to 1000 under load of the AC and in gear!! Stil a bit high when not under load of the ac or in gear.
Drove around the like that, starting/stopping, testing all gears, ac on/off, stereo on/off to test the electrical load. Then took it back home. I knew I was 90% good at that point. The went home and shut it off.
I took the time to put my tools away, clean up and let the VX sit and think abuot it for a few minutes. (yes vehicles think, I fix computers for a living and I know they can be intimidated into working correctly if you just show it who is boss! j/k kinda lol)
Went back out, fired up the VX, idle was about 900... YAY!! Turned on Air Conditioning, idle about 850. Turned off Air Conditioning, put in gear, idle didnt change. Turned on AC and stereo loud... no change in idle. Took it for a ride for a few miles, smooth accell, quiet engine, ran it thru all gears a few times, stopped at stop lights just normal stuff. Idle is rock solid.
Took it back home, let it sit and think some more (hehe) then took it for a 2 hour drive to Florida. Sweet, all the way. No idle probs. Engine sounds better than ever and throttle up is as smooth as throttle down. JOY!!!
I know some ppl here say about 750 is normal idle, but I'm happy right now with approx 850-900. At least I dont have to foot the brakes sitting at stop lights.
I thank you all at this forum for helping me tackle this myself. Total work time was about 3 hours, total research time was about 15 hours here on the forums (but I'm kinda anal about reasearch since I'm not much of a greasemonkey). Total spending breaks down approx:
$7 for CRC Mass Air Flow Sensor cleaner
$6 for Chemtool carb and throttlebody cleaner
$10 for Seafoam sensor safe general cleaner (which i did not use much of, but prolly should have been the first thing to try but not sure if it is MAF safe)
~ $45 for the Air Idle Control Valve (autozone)
~ $22 for the Throttle Position Sensor (autozone)
Total $90.
This does not include tools such as a #20 Torx bit for removing the parts, screwdrivers etc (all that stuff I had already, and so should you!)
Total actual parts cleaning/replacements time about 1.5 hours. Should be about 30-40 mins if you know what yer doing.
In short, THANK YOU XV.INFO!!!! Too many posts and ppl to mention, I wish I could thank you all individually for your efforts.
I know its not perfect, but this poor vehicle was neglected for years by the original owner, I know I'm just trying to mop up after years of neglect with very little resources at my disposal, and you folx come thru like champs.
THX again,
Josh