Offset from Hell saved the VX ...

[tom4bren]

... but she won't be on the road for a while.

Traveling up I95 this morning, towing an empty utility trailer, the cars in front of me came to a hard stop. I LEEEEANED on the brakes but with the trailer pushing me, I wasn't gonna stop in time.

I started to head for the shoulder but the Ford Escape in front of me had the same idea. As soon as she realized that she would be able to stop in time, she stayed in her lane & I headed for the shoulder. All this happened in about 0.587 seconds. My front drivers side tire hit her rear bumper and rode up the quarter panel ... ever so gently diflecting me further towards the shoulder. But now I was on 2 wheels. A nice arc sent me safely around the Ford but I came to rest with the front driver's tire resting about 1 1/2 feet off the ground on the side of a Dodge Van.

What a ride!!!

Hope I never do THAT again!!!

Anyway, after the State Trooper took his pix, he asked me to kindly remove my VX from the side of the van. I obligingly did so but when the tires were all on the ground again, it was plainly evident that something was amiss. The front tires were pointing 2 different directions.

The good news is that everyone was OK. The bad news is that I made the news (Wifey called to tell me that the radio was reporting a 7 mile backup).

I don't have any idea what the extent of the damage is yet but I'll keep you posted. As soon as I figger out how to get the pix on my phone downloaded to my 'puter, I'll post them.

Tom

Pix are on page 3 of this thread: http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=195164&postcount=39

[VX KAT]

I just KNEW that offset from hell was a great idea!! YAH!!!!!!!!!!
Glad it went down THIS way, and not the other many baddddddd ways it could have & yer all OK! :thumbup:

[vt_maverick]

Dude that's terrible!!! So sorry to hear about it, definitely keep us posted on the damages, and let me know if there's anything you need my help in hunting down.

[deermagnet]

I'm glad you're okay, Tom. It'll get fixed and you'll be back on the road in no time. Stay off I-95!

Mark

[Scott Harness]

Good driving!! glad everyone is okay.

[MSHardeman]

Tom, glad to hear that everyone is OK, and the VX is in relatively good shape. Sounds like you might have bent, or snapped, a tie rod. Easy fix....heck, Zeus did it on the trails in Moab.

Way to "monster truck" it. :thumbup:

[VX KAT]

Dude that's terrible!!! So sorry to hear about it, definitely keep us posted on the damages, and let me know if there's anything you need my help in hunting down.
Oh yeah, that's right, Tom. Mav is "just a guy who knows how to get stuff" and I'm his jr.apprentice! Yes, grasshopper, this is how you find VX parts....

[Triathlete]

Glad all ended well (somewhat anyways)! May be time to upgrade to indy 4x heavy duty tie rods...if I recall they are pretty close in price to new stock ones.

[RamAirZ]

Ya I'm ordering a set this week, keep my stockers as spares. Like I said in the hitch thread, just glad your ok and the VX is ok. Also I can't lie, I can't wait to see your VX parked on top of a van lol. You could use it as a sig pic! Minivan<VX

[Mile High VX]

Glad everyone is fine Tom.

Only a 7 mile back up? Dude, you can do better than that...:)

If the damage is more that just the tie rod you might grab that VX in Des Moines for $2K that needs a motor...just sayin.

[tom4bren]

If the damage is more that just the tie rod you might grab that VX in Des Moines for $2K that needs a motor...just sayin.

HMMM!!!! USAA, I have a DEAL for you!!!


Thanks all. The shakes are kinda subsiding now.

Gotta go home & try to get the Eclipse fixded so I can get to work in the morning (still overheating ... Bye Bye thermostat).

[etlsport]

phew Tom be careful out there! glad youre alright and sounds like the only damage to the VX was easily replaceable stuff (and not body)

let me know if I can do anything to help get the ol girl back on the road!

[ZEUS]

Tom, are you sure it wasn't the offset from Hell that kept you from braking in time? Wait, I'm not RiffRaff! :bgwb: I bet if your VX wasn't yellow you wouldn't have been going as fast and you could have stopped. I do believe I have an extra tie rod thanks to Ascinder so shoot me a PM if you think you need a driver's side replacement - it's yours for the cost of shipping if you want it!

Now... if we are waiting for you to figure out how to work with images we may never see them. :p

[samneil2000]

Glad to hear no one was injured.

[PittVXr]

Tom, 2 things:

#1: Glad to hear that you are fine. A little shaken up, but good none the less.

#2: Those pics are going to be awesome! Can't wait to see them.

Congratulations on making the news. Good thing you weren't transporting any deactivated landmines this morning! You would have been the lead story.

[tomdietrying]

Glad you are o.k. Sounds like your VX should be up and running in no time.
Peace.
Tom

[etlsport]

oh if its easier text the photos to my phone or e-mail, i can upload them for you

[Riff Raff]

Tom, are you sure it wasn't the offset from Hell that kept you from braking in time? Wait, I'm not RiffRaff! :bgwb: I bet if your VX wasn't yellow you wouldn't have been going as fast and you could have stopped. I do believe I have an extra tie rod thanks to Ascinder so shoot me a PM if you think you need a driver's side replacement - it's yours for the cost of shipping if you want it!

Now... if we are waiting for you to figure out how to work with images we may never see them. :p


x2 (Thanx ZEUS for the shout-out). Glad to hear you're OK, Tom. Remember to keep a generous "cushion of space" in your future travels.:bgwb:

[SuperBoomTurbo]

If the vx weren't such a blast to drive, I'd keep it I a glass jar and look at it on weekends. Good that you're okay, but it's the same reason I leave tons of space I front of me. Just kills me when people dart in front of me then slam on the brakes. "thanks jack*#%!! that space was there for a reason!!

My advice like the others: any time you break something, it's time to upgrade!! On the flip side, a weak tie rod may have saved your body certain doom.

** Just had a thought. Rather than putting vt mavercks bumper junker keeper on the back, have one protecting each axle, then one on both sides mounted to rock sliders, kinda like a go cart!

[djvx]

Tom, glad you are fine. Do you have ABS brakes? I'd like to know if ABS caused you a longer stop time - or- did not having ABS cause you any problems? It's sounds like you did a great manuver-alot better than bashing into the car in front of you at any rate.

[WormGod]

Pics.... or it didn't happen. :p

I dunno Tom. I might prefer a couple dinged up body panels to some undercarriage/suspension damage. I was there in my VX accident (no no, not the dragon.... RIP) and aside from waiting weeks for parts to be located (steering box was the worse), the price ended up coming to roughly $4k IIRC. Only a fender was damaged and the rest was the entire front driver side wheel/tire/suspension assembly.

Glad you are ok though. The VX can take a hell of a punch, but best not to test it's limits. ;)

[Ldub]

Glad to hear no one was injured.


Tom, 2 things:

#1: Glad to hear that you are fine. A little shaken up, but good none the less.

#2: Those pics are going to be awesome! Can't wait to see them.

X 2...:yesgray:

Glad to hear you're OK Bro, I think I have both of my OEM tie rods if you need em'.

:luck: with the repairs...:_wrench:.:thumbup:

[tom4bren]

x2 (Thanx ZEUS for the shout-out). Glad to hear you're OK, Tom. Remember to keep a generous "cushion of space" in your future travels.:bgwb:

Thanks for the concern Riff but don't kick a feller when he's down. There was a generous "cushion of space".

The combination of ABS, large tires & the trailer all conspired against me. I'm not shifting blame. It's obvious that I was following too close if I couldn't stop in time but it was definitely a case where my stopping distance was far more than I estimated rather than "being up someone's butt".

Before I do any more towing, I'll definitely be looking to upgrade the braking system (it's still completely stock). I'll be looking to put on SS brake lines but I haven't decided yet about upgraded rotors. I'll certainly look into it though.

FYI, the ABS works. I was able to maintain control (at least while all 4 tires were on the ground). I didn't leave any rubber on the road. IMHO, the stopping distance should have been much less though.

This should be a message to all VX owners though. Take your VX to an empty parking lot or road with no traffic & LEARN your stopping distance. Don't guess. This is particularly important if you drive several different cars on a regular basis. If you are going to be towing with the VX, learn that stopping distance as well.

Pixes: Still working on that. It's an LG phone which is an SOB to synch to the 'puter. I don't have texting on that phone so that's not gonna work either. I'll stop by ATT on my way home & see if they have any ideas. I'll warn you ahead of time though that the quality is gonna be bad, it looks like sun glints really messed up the images.

[tom4bren]

(steering box was the worse)

Gary,

Thanks for the warning. Unfortunately that appears to be one of the damaged components.

Tom

[RamAirZ]

I have a spare steering box here with pitman arm, not sure if it's good but it came with my VX

[tom4bren]

GTK - thanks, I'll let you know.

[Riff Raff]

Thanks for the concern Riff but don't kick a feller when he's down. There was a generous "cushion of space".

Tom, I believe you've misinterpreted my comment. Like the rest of the forum; I have only love and respect for you and by no means meant an increase of "cushion of space" to be in a negative limelight, but only as a possible safety measure. Things can happen very quickly in congested traffic and your quick reaction time helped save your VX from possible permanent doom and it prevented the Air-Bag system from being deployed (which insurance companies often use to justify a "total loss"). Thank you for your additional explaination of possible causes that may have contributed to your accident. We all appreciate your helpful advice and will use it to make us all safer drivers. I'm sure you will take the necessary steps to improve your own VX to make it an even more worthy vehicle. Above all, we are most grateful that you weren't injured and are OK. VX's can be repaired, but humans are a bit more fragile critters. Luv 'ya, Tom.:heart:

[tom4bren]

Riff - I prolly came across more cross than I was, sorry 'bout that.

[nfpgasmask]

Sorry to hear this, Tom, glad you avoided injury. So, maybe you just busted a tie-rod?

Bart

[djvx]

Tom,Thanks for the details! I had to lock up my brakes today, less than 24 hours after reading your thread. A driver 2 cars ahead made a ridiculous quick stop to turn, both the driver in front of me and me had to do a full on slam of the pedal. I did a complete lock up of my tires. I stopped very quickly. I'm currently running minus ABS. My tires let out brief howl as they nearly stopped my vx instantly. I went out on some gravel covered concrete to practice and I really am considering leaving my ABS off. It's such a tough decision- I have felt very uncomfortable with the ABS on in the past. I wish they made an easy on and off switch for it.

[PK]

Tom, glad no one was injured, and your VX is repairable.

Riff - wow, time to heed your Dads advice yourself.
It would be so cool to see you face to face and see if you still talk the talk.
This is one argument you wont win.

PK

[crotchrocket]

Sorry to hear about the smash up, glad your ok! and glad the offset helped the situation! although i do still have to worry about the dangers for other people coming into contact with your tyres! I i drive my VX through london like that (wouldn't get very far with the police anyway) i'd suck in no end of cyclists and commuters, lol

[kodiak]

Sorry Tom.:( It's good to hear you're ok. If you need any help finding parts post it here. There's a lot of good wrecking yards here in SLC.

[tom4bren]

i do still have to worry about the dangers for other people coming into contact with your tyres! ... i'd suck in no end of cyclists and commuters, lol

LOL

Nah, the only concern is wet pavement - you wouldn't believe how much water a tire can throw. I try to be courteous though and give pedestrians a wide berth.:)

[tom4bren]

... this thread is not about you or me-- it is about our beloved Tom ...

:mbrasd:

Group hug!!!

All better now.

I love this family - care, concern, help & Entertainment

[tom4bren]

Tom,Thanks for the details! I had to lock up my brakes today, less than 24 hours after reading your thread. A driver 2 cars ahead made a ridiculous quick stop to turn, both the driver in front of me and me had to do a full on slam of the pedal. I did a complete lock up of my tires. I stopped very quickly. I'm currently running minus ABS. My tires let out brief howl as they nearly stopped my vx instantly. I went out on some gravel covered concrete to practice and I really am considering leaving my ABS off. It's such a tough decision- I have felt very uncomfortable with the ABS on in the past. I wish they made an easy on and off switch for it.

Glad it went better for you.

When I get the VX back I'll certainly be looking into the ABS issue. It's obvious that Isuzu calibrated the ABS for the stock tires so I'm sure it's far from optimal for the larger tires. Since it can't be easily recalibrated, disabling appears the best option. My tires are 10% larger than stock - that's gotta be WAY outside the design parameters.

[tom4bren]

I just talked to the shop.

Believe it or not, it appears that the only damaged components are:

Steering knuckle

Sector shaft on steering box

Of course, they may find more when they try to do an alignment. Suprise, suprise ... the only problem they are currently having is locating the parts (not to worry though - we'll help them with that)

BTW, sorry 'bout the seperate quotes above. I was only planning on using 1 but then I kinda got on a roll.

BBTW, heading to Best Buy shortly to see if they can get the pix copied over to an SD card or sump'n.

[tom4bren]

Sorry 'bout the quality - cell phone pix


http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/0526100759-00.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/0526100800-00.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/0526100800-01.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/0526100801-00.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/0526100815-00.jpg

[Mile High VX]

Holy Cow Tom-man...

Great driving there...even more spectacular than you described it.

Really glad no one was hurt and the VX seems to have only minor issues.

[MSHardeman]

Tom, you where right. If them big 'ol tires hadn't been there you would probably be looking at some sheet metal damage.

Way to drive!:thumbup:

[phines]

I love off-roading in the VX...

Glad no one got hurt!
________
Hot penny stocks (http://pennystockpicks.net/)

[Ldub]

Nice flex...:thumbup:

[etlsport]

thats nuts Tom! wonder if any traffic cams in the area picked up a video ;Db;

also from your description, I wonder if the trailer helped to bring the VX back down onto all 4s instead of rolling after you ramped the escape. maybe the trailer was actrually a good thing! (although i suppose you may have been able to stop in time without it.. who knows, glad your ok though

[VCrossfan]

Glad everyone's OK. BUILT TONKA TOUGH

[Marlin]

I have felt very uncomfortable with the ABS on in the past. I wish they made an easy on and off switch for it.

They do, just pull the fuse under the hood:)

If you had the spare tire on the back, it might have helped your truck maintain its balance better!!!:rolleyes:

As for parts, almost all of the 02 trooper front end parts are the same, don't let a mechanic rip you off for special "VX" parts there is a whole steering assembly for sale on Ebay right now, 67 bucks plus shipping, I already emailed him about it, has everything from tie rod end to tie rod end. That will help.
Glad we didn't lose another proton...

[logans]

Wow Tom. That's some amazing driving skills. You're quik like a bunny. Sorry that happened but I know 95 all to well in your area. I lived in Richmond for a while and had some training classes in Dumfries. From your stretch of pavement to Dumfries was like being in a pole position the whole way at 0700 in the morn. Hurry hurry now stop!!

[Marlin]

. You're quik like a bunny.

I have had some wine, but that comment made me wonder what other bunny characteristics does he have?


http://www.funnyearth.com/html/games/Humping_Rabbits.php


Oh, and did you have full coverage? (to keep it from being a thread jack, for those who don't get it, read the zombie revolution thread....and some :_beer:) doesn't hurt either.)

[BigMeatVX]

Glad all ended well (somewhat anyways)! May be time to upgrade to indy 4x heavy duty tie rods...if I recall they are pretty close in price to new stock ones.

You must mean the SWORDY-designed Tie Rods that Matt over at Indy COPPIED!!!:mady2:

Ive had a similar SWORDY set for years....

Heres the problem....the joints that both aftermarket used DO NOT HAVE THE SAME ANGLE capabilities as the stock OEM units....This means they BIND under full droop!!!!They Bind Bad enough to bend the Tie Rod end joints and also the idler arm bolt-shaft:upsetgray

Big Swede hads had problems with this also....

[tom4bren]

Just a little update.

The garage said that Isuzu claims it'll take 6-8 weeks to get the steering box. RamAirZ is kindly sending me his spare. I'll start looking tomorrow for a new set of seals for it. They really only need the sector shaft from the donor box.

Yah, I had comp but being the miser that I am, I have a $1K deductable so I'll be out a little ching.

[tom4bren]

WooHoo!!! The VX should be outa the shop by the end of the week. It was just the steering box & a steering knuckle. There was a 'tweek' to the end of the frame on that side but they indicated that it was easily straightened.

They ended up replacing the front cladding & fender cladding as well. I had them save the old ones (prolly not useful to anyone since they were cut to clear the tires but lemme know if anyone needs them for a project or sumpn).

All that's left to do is an alignment & cleaning.

I saw some of the work they've done on other cars (including the Ford that I hit). This place does some awsome work (although somewhat expensive). I may end up taking the Eclipse there for a paint job.

[PittVXr]

Glad to hear that everything got fixed and you will be back on the road soon.

Did they get that offset problem corrected too? Your tires stick out waaaaay too far you know ;Db;

[vt_maverick]

+1 - Glad to hear you'll be back on the road soon! Beware to other drivers though, the yellow monster truck will be back on the prowl soon! ;)

[RamAirZ]

awesome! So that box worked out for ya? I might be interested in the cladding, might be nice to have a spare. I bet you cant wait to have it out of the shop!

[Ldub]

Did they get that offset problem corrected too? Your tires stick out waaaaay too far you know ;Db;

LOL...:laughing:

Glad to hear you're soon to be back in bidness...:yesgray:

[tom4bren]

Did they get that offset problem corrected too? Your tires stick out waaaaay too far you know ;Db;

VX is made for offset!!!

[ZEUS]

Wise man once say, "Wider is better." Glad it all worked out so well for ya Tommy Boy!

[nfpgasmask]

Good to hear. Stories like this make me feel happy my VX is hibernating in the garage.

:) Bart

[Mile High VX]

WooHoo!

Party at Toms...cost of entry is you gotta bow before the OFH...:yesb::yesgray:

[vt_maverick]

WooHoo!

Party at Toms...cost of entry is you gotta bow before the OFH...:yesb::yesgray:

Trust me, with those size tires and a 3" lift, you're already looking up at it. ;)

[tom4bren]

On yer knees ye of humble offset stature.

[tom4bren]

WooHoo!!!

The Proton is safely back home now. I picked it up on Friday evening.

Everything appears back to normal with it except for 2 issues:

1. Stupid TOD lite is still flashing at me.

2. They replaced the front & left fender cladding & now the tire rubs at full lock. I'll hafta do some more trimming.

The total bill was $3500. The place that did the repair did great work but they were'nt cheap.

I'm curious about the spare steering box that RamAirZ provided. No leaks & no play. Why did his VX come with the spare.

They didn't use the pump so that's available if anyone needs it.

[etlsport]

Wise man once say, "Wider is better." Glad it all worked out so well for ya Tommy Boy!

pontiac used to say that... ;puke:


glad to hear shes home Tom!

[Ldub]

WooHoo!!!

The Proton is safely back home now. I picked it up on Friday evening.

Everything appears back to normal .

:dance:.:dan_ban::thumbup:.:dan_ban:.:dance:

[ZEUS]

WooHoo!!!

The Proton is safely back home now. I picked it up on Friday evening.

Everything appears back to normal with it except for 2 issues:

1. Stupid TOD lite is still flashing at me.

2. They replaced the front & left fender cladding & now the tire rubs at full lock. I'll hafta do some more trimming.

The total bill was $3500. The place that did the repair did great work but they were'nt cheap.

I'm curious about the spare steering box that RamAirZ provided. No leaks & no play. Why did his VX come with the spare.

They didn't use the pump so that's available if anyone needs it.Welcome back OFH - not to be confused with ORW. Now get hackin! :p


pontiac used to say that... ;puke:
HAHA! Yeah, I know, that's what I was alluding to.

[nfpgasmask]

So Tom, your insurance was able to find new cladding pieces?

Congrats on having your baby home.

Bart

[tom4bren]

So Tom, your insurance was able to find new cladding pieces?

Needless to say, I was shocked that they were able to locate some so easily (especially considering that they couldn't find a steering box). I wrote down the dealer's name & number that provided them but don't have it with me. I'll post it as soon as I find that little piece of paper.

[vt_maverick]

Congrats Tom, ditto on the surprise at cladding availability. Will be interesting to see what else they may be able to find...

Good to hear you're back on the road!

[Marlin]

WooHoo!!!


I'm curious about the spare steering box that RamAirZ provided. No leaks & no play. Why did his VX come with the spare.

They didn't use the pump so that's available if anyone needs it.

I have a spare in my garage. Got it cheap on Ebay. Never know when you are going to need it...PO may have been a parts collector as well.

[RamAirZ]

I'm assuming he replaced the steering pump and box at the same time, maybe had a leak and couldn't figure out where it was coming from or something? It came in a bag covered with steering fluid when I picked it up. I'm glad it worked out for ya man and saved you some time and money! I was worried it was going to be bad but hoped it wouldn't be. I wanted to help get ya on the road

[tom4bren]

I'm assuming he replaced the steering pump and box at the same time, maybe had a leak and couldn't figure out where it was coming from or something? It came in a bag covered with steering fluid when I picked it up. I'm glad it worked out for ya man and saved you some time and money! I was worried it was going to be bad but hoped it wouldn't be. I wanted to help get ya on the road

& much appreciated.

When it arrived, the box was so saturated in power steering fluid that the mail carrier had it in a plastic bin. I was surprised that Homeland Security didn't flag it for inspection:)

[JAMAS]

When it arrived, the box was so saturated in power steering fluid that the mail carrier had it in a plastic bin.

I bet he was pissed.

[RamAirZ]

LOL really? I tried to "pump" it all out before I put it in and didn't I have a garbage bag in there too? It was late when I packed it up but I thought for sure I had it wrapped up as well. I'm glad they brought it to ya! Good to see ya on the road again! Just avoid vans from now on lol

[tom4bren]

The place they got the cladding from is:

Churner Isuzu
Vienna, VA

703/893-0800

I have not called them to find out how extensive their inventory is. I do know that they did not have the steering box so the availability of the cladding may have been a fluke.

[tom4bren]

I towed the trailer home from work last Thursday. That was the first time since the accident. Talk about a stressful drive!!! I didn't take it over 60mph the entire drive. Got home safe & sound though.

I'm starting to wonder now though if the ABS was wrongfully blamed and if it might have been caused by the ol' foot on both the brake & gas issue that we all know & love so well. I've been trying to re-train my foot ever since to move all the way onto the brake (lift & press rather than slide & push).

[etlsport]

Tom I removed the rubber pedal cover from my brake pedal and replaced it with an after market pedal which i drilled new mounting holes in to move the pedal over as far as possible. Works pretty well and looks better too!

[tom4bren]

The PO installed metal covers on both pedals. Thanks for the advice though, I'll look to see if the cover can be moved over.

[Marlin]

I have taught myself to drive with my heel under the brake pedal, and I turn my foot out to reach the tiny gas pedal. That way, my foot is always oriented with bias toward the brake pedal.

[tom4bren]

That's what I've been doing for years but I've noticed that my foot has been getting lazy as I get older. I tend to only catch the right edge of the brake with the center of my foot. It's hard to undo 35 years of training but I'm getting there. I'm thinking that my lazy foot is partly caused by not driving a stick shift anymore (not in the past 6 years).

[Marlin]

That's what I've been doing for years but I've noticed that my foot has been getting lazy as I get older. I tend to only catch the right edge of the brake with the center of my foot. It's hard to undo 35 years of training but I'm getting there. I'm thinking that my lazy foot is partly caused by not driving a stick shift anymore (not in the past 6 years).

35 years of training....that puts you at like...4+17x39.5/2 + 6.13+3.93:work: well, by my calculations, that puts you at like 117 years old:right:

How long did it take you to get used to holding a steering wheel instead of reigns?! LOL!!!!!!!!!

[Mile High VX]

How long did it take you to get used to holding a steering wheel instead of reigns?! LOL!!!!!!!!!


HaHa...LMAO

I bet he held them with one finger...

[tom4bren]

BWAAHAAHAA!!!

Yous guys are killin me here.

;wtf;

I've just mentally given you the finger!!!

At least there's still one part of my anatomy that still thinks its 18 years old.

[vt_maverick]

Tom I removed the rubber pedal cover from my brake pedal and replaced it with an after market pedal which i drilled new mounting holes in to move the pedal over as far as possible. Works pretty well and looks better too!

You know what we say... pics or it didn't happen! :)

[Marlin]

[QUOTE=tom4bren;210060
At least there's still one part of my anatomy that still thinks its 18 years old.[/QUOTE]

from Big Daddy: "....Old Balls. GROSS!"

[tom4bren]

I have no response to that!!!

[etlsport]

You know what we say... pics or it didn't happen! :)

Oh come on you have been aroumd lomg enough to know that if you look through my gallery you can find pictures of ANYTHING

If you look at the location of the screws you can see the pedal is cheated away from the gas pedal

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/steps_023.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8951)

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/steps_009.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8950)

[tom4bren]

Oh come on you have been aroumd lomg enough to know that if you look through my gallery you can find pictures of ANYTHING

HEH, HEH, HEH

I have no response to that!