Cladding

[Daly]

Came across this site. It seems to have a whole bunch of products that would work nicely to fix, improve, color our cladding.
http://www.urethanesupply.com/plastifixhowto.php

Anyone ever try sanding out scratches before using restorer refinish or some of the products on the above sight?

[etlsport]

the product listed in the link "plastic fix" specifically says it wont work on polypropolyne (ie what our cladding is made of)

[Daly]

I never knew what our clading was made of, thanks.

I already use retorer refinish so I really was hoping that something had tried sanding/working cladding and had some advice on that.

[Luna X]

The cladding is raw, stamped out from the factory. If you notice, it has a slight texture to it and once a mark or scratch is put in it, it's there for good. A decent dressing may hide or camouflage small scratches, but they would still be there.

[mrlarrys]

I Just tryed this stuff called armor-dillo TS-1 it seems to be holding up (2 months) and it can be found on the web at www.armor-dillo.com . this is the best stuff I have found so far.
Larry

[rowhard]

Certainly reads well. Here is a web site with more info.
http://www.autocosmeticproducts.com/Armordillots1.htm

[Riff Raff]

Certainly reads well. Here is a web site with more info.
http://www.autocosmeticproducts.com/Armordillots1.htm

x2. Great "link"(s). After reading the above mentioned website links, the Armor Dillo TS-1 appears to be the miracle cure for our VX cladding. Even the official GM Tech Bulletin mentions it "by name" for their Avalanche cladding (remember, ISUZU is a GM subsidiary company). According to the info & GM-TB, the most critical step is to use a "damp" lint-free towel to wipe the surface after treatment with TS-1. Further, MR. LARRY's has already tried it on his cladding with great results.

I've used Refinish Restorer only on my Hood Insert and it has returned it to like-new condition with a OEM factory looking sheen. However, I haven't used R/R on my side cladding yet because other VX member's have reported chipping/flaking and that has made me extremely skittish for R/R cladding use.

Having said that, my plan now is to only use R/R on the Hood Insert and to use Armor Dillo TS-1 only on the side cladding material. Plus, I really like the fact that the TS-1 comes in pre-treated "packet wipes" which will aide in its application. I just ordered the TS-1 (4-pack) for $30 from ROWHARD's "link" to give it a try.:bgwb:

[Tookie]

Hmmmm, is better than the VXKat famed 303?

[VX KAT]

Hmmmm, is better than the VXKat famed 303?

Sounds even better to me! But to be fair, they're 2 different animals....sounds like Armordillo TS-1 actually penetrates and hardens on the surface. And specifically says it WON'T CHIP or SCRATCH OFF!!!! Now 303 won't chip or scratch off either, but it's still somewhat of a topical product, whereas TS-1 and R/R actually penetrate the surface.....except R/R chips off:mad:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCF1879.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCF1881.JPG

[hyperkid]

I need to refinish my cladding too. After all the reading I am a little weary of using R/R. Has anyone tried the methods or products listed in the isuzu service bulletin?

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=12867

[circmand]

x2. Great "link"(s). (remember, ISUZU is a GM subsidiary company). :

Isuzu wised up and bought the shares back from GM once they saw how ratyher then helpins sell Isuzus with its dealer network they instead worked on trying to make Isuzu a GM sub product with low quality

[Grif]

I dont understand how R/R could possibly chip. I've been using the product without any problems whatsoever. Its not a paint that coats the plastic, its not a dye, and its not a silicone surface treatment that just lasts a week like Black Magic et al. Its a solvent that penetrates the plastic, allowing it to be cleaned and resurfaced very safely and lasts for months and months if not a year.

[VX KAT]

I dont understand how R/R could possibly chip. I've been using the product without any problems whatsoever. Its not a paint that coats the plastic, its not a dye, and its not a silicone surface treatment that just lasts a week like Black Magic et al. Its a solvent that penetrates the plastic, allowing it to be cleaned and resurfaced very safely and lasts for months and months if not a year.

I don't understand it either....but it seems to be chipping whereever anything comes in firm contact with it...:_confused
On my pass fender I kissed a small branch/bush in Moab, and there's a clear area of missing R/R and the actual cladding shows the abrasion/scuffing...so I know it occurred when the branch abraded the cladding.

And the front bumper is peppered with chips as you can see....I'm at a loss :?::_brickwal I only have 2 coats on (about 1 yr apart), think I should do a few more or have any ideas on what could have happened or what I can do about it? I prepped the surface thoroughly. And I have no other areas chipping or peeling, just the front and where I brushed the branch....so that led me to believe it had to be from dirt /road debris striking at highway speeds and, of course, direct abrasion.

[vt_maverick]

...Its a solvent that penetrates the plastic, allowing it to be cleaned and resurfaced very safely and lasts for months and months if not a year.

But to me that seems inconsistent with what several owners have reported since applying it; maybe that's what the bottle says, but it surely seems that in addition to whatever "penetrating" it does, it also coats the surface with a hardened veneer. I wonder what "resurfacing" really means if the product itself forms the surface that has to be refinished. From my perspective it seems likely that trail and road rash are causing Sue's problems; as she points out, how could it be anything else if it only affects the front? I guess the only question is whether the front surfaces were somehow damaged/contaminated before R/R was applied, but that doesn't seem to jive with how well Sue claims to have pre-treated.

Not picking at you Grif, just trying to encourage more discussion. A year ago R/R seemed like the salvation everyone had always wanted, and to some members it still seems to be so. There has to be some reason why different members are having different results.

[Grif]

Not picking at you Grif, just trying to encourage more discussion. A year ago R/R seemed like the salvation everyone had always wanted, and to some members it still seems to be so. There has to be some reason why different members are having different results.

Mav, I know yer not picking at me. And my thoughts are the same as yours. Why are some people reporting problems when my experience has been very positive?

Could there be an interaction between previous treatments used on the cladding and R/R? I definitely could imagine some chipping if the cladding had been painted or clearcoated. R/R is not for painted surfaces (sorry Riff, hood inset R/R treatment was prolly not a good idea, tho i used it on mine once, with "meh" results). It is a penetrating solvent after all. It could possibly weaken paint or even dyed surfaces if the solvents used are unfreindly with eachother.

Of course my experience is only mine, I cannot speak for others and more input is definitely appreciated.

Oh, and my description of what it does was not lifted from the bottle, it was my own personal observation of how the substance interacts with the plastic.

[rowhard]

R/R, personally, I don't like it, it's to fiddly. I have the best part of a full bottle if someone want to buy it.

Looking forward to Riff Raff's experience with TS-1.

Until then, I will stick with One Grand ERV http://store.carcareonline.com/onegrandextrubberandvinyl-16ozpumpspray.aspx
Yea, I have to apply it every wash, but it takes me about 6 minutes to go around the VX, simply spray and wipe:yesy:

[RickOKC]

HUGE supposition on my part to follow....

The Armordillo website has a statement about the GM cladding. To paraphrase, it says the release agent used when molding the parts continues to move to the top surface of the cladding when subjected to sunlight heat. GM didn't make our cladding but I wonder if something similar is happening to us. Could such a chemical continue to leach to the surface which might weaken the bond between the cladding and the RR?

We use silverware because silver reacts in a way that kills bacteria. Not only did some smart cookie figger that one out centuries ago, anudder smartie figured out a way to make a paint that would the same same thing. Some heating and air conditioning equipment now has silver-infused paint on the interior to prevent the growth of bacteria -- and it is designed so it will continue to leach for DECADES.

:_confused :_confused :_confused :_confused :_confused :_confused

[RickOKC]

We were supposed to get a major rain storm today and I was hoping it would wash the Meguiar's Natural Shine off my cladding. I scrubbed all that Bondo crap-o off of it last weekend and revealed the nice-looking cladding it was hiding. I want to play guinea pig and test some products side-by-side: Natural Shine, Back to Black and 303.

I've used Natural Shine on trim and tires for years and it will usually last through 2 or 3 car washes since I always use a good car wash soap designed to not strip car wax, etc. It looked very good and dark on the little spot where I tried it out -- then I went nuts and couldn't help applying it all the way around. DOH! Got ahead of myself!

Never used Back to Black before and would never consider it for regular use because it has been described as a dust magnet. I know it wouldn't work for me but I'd like to see if it looks darker. (My workplace is so dusty that I often have "dust drifts" (like mini-snow drifts) on my car at the end of the day.) A coworker lent me a bottle.

Never used 303 before, either, but I picked up a bottle on my way home the other day. Looking forward to trying it out. I cleaned the Natural Shine off the half-moon on the rear door and applied it a little while ago. It looks pretty good.

I think I'm going to apply each of these in vertical stripes on a door panel to see how they stand up side-by-side. I'll probably leave it alone for a day or two, then wash it a time or two. Looking forward to playing around!

[VX KAT]

In anticipation of applying R/R, I went almost 3 months with no treatment of any kind on my cladding (and nothing from the car wash), actually got a tad faded out looking. Even recall somebody in Moab 2009 telling me to treat my cladding as it was so dry looking! :laugho: I prepped with washing after washing, then even used Windex and 409 (I think). Really don't "think" the front cladding was prepped in any different fashion, but I agree, mav, that could be a possibility. My can could also have some contamination or something different in the batch. Guess we'll never know. But I'm really glad to hear it's working so well for some.

Know the label said it actually penetrates the plastic, but I can't say that I "saw" that, or could really say one way or the other. I do know it formed a nice hard satin finish that never washed off or deteriorated in any way. About a year later, I decided to add a 2nd coat cuz I read the instructions and it said you can do that, and I thought it would be a good, final step.

When I did the 2nd coat, it seemed to me to be much shinier, which I didn't like, but oh well, it's permanent.

John, you're using One Grand ERV....did you find a way to remove the R/R, or does that stuff successfully go on top of R/R? I've even thought of using some super fine sandpaper and just ever so lightly sanding everything, hoping it would open up some pores, that I could then soak with 303 or the TS-1.

Boy, my 1st choice would be to "remove" the R/R if I could.....then try the TS-1 or 303. I'm now with you John, wiping it down with something frequently would not be a problem, now that I know what I know.

[VX KAT]

HUGE supposition on my part to follow....

The Armordillo website has a statement about the GM cladding. To paraphrase, it says the release agent used when molding the parts continues to move to the top surface of the cladding when subjected to sunlight heat. GM didn't make our cladding but I wonder if something similar is happening to us. Could such a chemical continue to leach to the surface which might weaken the bond between the cladding and the RR?


Hummm, I too read that, interesting thought Rick. Wonder if that has anything to do with my cladding appearing to be "lighter" gray than almost anybody else...maybe lighter gray molecules continued to be released and moved to the surface??:?:


I want to play guinea pig and test some products side-by-side: Natural Shine, Back to Black and 303.

I think I'm going to apply each of these in vertical stripes on a door panel to see how they stand up side-by-side. I'll probably leave it alone for a day or two, then wash it a time or two. Looking forward to playing around!

That's a great idea, thanks so much for taking it on....and being willing to drive around possibly looking like a Zebra for a while. :thanx:

[RickOKC]

Hummm, I too read that, interesting thought Rick. Wonder if that has anything to do with my cladding appearing to be "lighter" gray than almost anybody else...maybe lighter gray molecules continued to be released and moved to the surface??:?:
Hi Kat!

I've read other messages where you wondered if some VX cladding was darker or lighter than others right from the factory. I am NOT implying that is incorrect, but I wonder if you have ever parked your VX nose to nose with a lighter paint-colored VX to see how they compare with the light hitting the same panels at the same angle? The "Same Color Illusion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same_color_illusion)" started rattlin' 'round my poor ol' empty brain-thingie after you mentioned that. My white paint is so brilliantly reflective that I wonder if my same dark-looking cladding wouldn't look light gray on an Ebony and would be somewhere in-between on your awesome Foxfire.

????

A different issue that made me think about this again the other day was when I was looking at the photos for a VX for sale and in some photos the cladding looked very light gray and from other angles it looked jet black -- on the same vehicle! Could the difference in color be due to even a slightly different lighting angle?

Again tonight I was reminded of that. My half-moon is now coated with 303 and the cladding below is coated with the Meguiars. My impression is that the 303 is a bit more reflective. Sitting in the garage with the extremely bright overhead fluorescent bulbs on, the Megiars looks much darker. When I turn them off and just have my single garage "night light" shining on it from directly behind, the 303 looks a lot darker. I just think it's really hard to tell not only due to the different angles of those surfaces, but also because of the difference in the colors between (hence my desire to see "stripes" of various treatments on the same panel.)

So, variances in adjacent colors, lighting angles and reflectivity.... lot's of things that could make a surprising difference. And, as always... I'm probably completely wrong - and please forgive me - I have to work with engineers all day so I always feel like I have to keep up with the way those weirdos think! LOL!

[RickOKC]

Oh yeah... and I'm not too worried about driving around in a zebra-mobile for a while... I have no doubt the cleaner I used last weekend will remove EVERYTHING. At least now I know to wear gloves (my hands look like raw meat.) :(

[VX KAT]

Rick- yer too funn-E! Those engineers must be rubbing off on you! :laugho:

Agree, all your points about lighting, reflectiveness, angle of view, photos, etc are very valid....but I actually solicited opinions while on "the stoop" of the ole' Red Rock Inn in May with 5 or so other VXs right there side by side/ next to me. Can't recall who all it was (maybe tomdietrying, scott harness, LDub, Kenny....anybody else recall this?) I recall the consensus was that mine appeared to be lighter all the way around.

Mine was also the only Foxfire and I recall we discussed how different contrast between paint color and cladding could have an illusion effect. Also discussed the possibility that my cladding was just from a different dye lot that happened to be a touch lighter.

I personally think we can rule out the theory that Foxfires came with a lighter color intentionally, since every pic I've seen of other Foxfires (i.e. vt mav, Pepino and several others) "seem" to have darker cladding than mine....of course subject to all the limitations of pictures, mentioned above.

Boy, I sure have been...:badhorse:..... :o

[PK]

and please forgive me - I have to work with engineers all day so I always feel like I have to keep up with the way those weirdos think! LOL!

Hey, watch it buddy - :mad::mad:

I resemble that remark!!!!!
:bwgy::smilewink:bgwo:

PK

[tom4bren]

Me too PK ... me too!

I guess it's true - Great minds run amuck ... err ... run together

[rowhard]

John, you're using One Grand ERV....did you find a way to remove the R/R, or does that stuff successfully go on top of R/R? I've even thought of using some super fine sandpaper and just ever so lightly sanding everything, hoping it would open up some pores, that I could then soak with 303 or the TS-1.

Yes, it wiped right over the top, but then the R/R has been on for over a year. As far as sanding, think I wouldn't. You would be dubbing contaminants into the substrate it's self. Seem's like I read to use turpentine to remove R/R.

[vt_maverick]

So maybe the difference between Sue and Grif's experience is heat? If our cladding has the same issues as GM cladding, which is to say contaminants are driven to the surface by heat, you would have to assume that process is occuring much faster in Arizona than in Washington or Alaska. So maybe the extreme heat drives the contaminants to the surface, which then undermines R/R's chemical bond with the cladding surface, which in turn causes it to be brittle and easily flake at the smallest impact (bugs, etc.). Just a theory anyway.

And lighting/angles definitely make a huge difference in how your cladding appears. Take the three photos below of my "darker" cladding for instance. Photo #1 shows my cladding without any treatment whatsoever in the shade on a sunny morning. As you can see it looks horrible, and has a similar blue-ish hue to Sue's cladding (at least that's my perception). But if you look at picture #2 the cladding looks much darker, when in fact the cladding is completely untreated in that picture as well. The difference is that although it was also a bright and sunny day, the sun was not quite directly overhead, so the cargo carrier was casting a bit of a shadow over the cladding. In picture #3 I had just treated the cladding with B2B, and when combined with overcast weather, it's probably the darkest my cladding has EVER looked.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3270/IMG_0215.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3268/P1011563.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3265/IMG00002-20100525-0732.jpg

Sue, I obviously haven't seen your VX in person but I don't know that I buy that your cladding is somehow different in composition/pigmentation - it just seems too unlikely that you'd be the only member experiencing the same problem. Personally I think it may be that you haven't yet found the right product for such a hot and dusty environment. I would definitely try to find a way to remove R/R so I could try other products. Do you think paint thinner/stripper (diluted) might take it off?

[rowhard]

step 6, turpentine substitute. http://www.carsystem.ca/shared_files/catalog/fichiers/RefinishRestorer_gb.pdf

[VX KAT]

Step 6 says "Liquid R/R" can be removed with tup subs, do you interpret that to mean turp sub would not work after it hardens?

I also agree with you mav, the odds that "my" cladding is actually different than everybody else's is so remote. Also, I'm in the mountains North of Phoenix, so my max temp this summer has been about 97, today is 85. We're about 20 degrees cooler than Phoenix (sorry Luna!) Yes, 97 is still plenty hot, but just wanted to clarify the temp issue, plus it's always in the garage, so very very little prolonged direct sun exposure.

My humidity is also VERY low, usually in the teens, except when it rains, then goes up to maybe 50%+.....Wonder if the low humidity may contribute to it becoming brittle and easy to "crack" and flake?

Bluish hue- Yes, that's an excellent description of the color of my cladding. And since so many in Moab saw mine and agreed it "looked" lighter than most, I tend to think it is lighter, for whatever reason.

I'm really interested in trying to remove it. Think there's any danger of the turp subs melting or marring the cladding itself? I'll pick up some turp subs today and try an inconspicuous area. Also going to wipe some 303 on and see what happens.

I really like this discussion, we're playing CSI on this issue! Thanks everybody.

[RickOKC]

Hey, watch it buddy - :mad::mad:

I resemble that remark!!!!!
:bwgy::smilewink:bgwo:

PK


Me too PK ... me too!

I guess it's true - Great minds run amuck ... err ... run together

WHAT?!?! I can't even find sanctuary from engineers here?!!??
NOoooOOooOOoooooooOOOooo! :laughing:

It sure is a brainy group here. First you guys and I also saw a picture of a sign indicating Bart is a doctor.

[RickOKC]

I'll pick up some turp subs today and try an inconspicuous area.

Wear gloves.

[Grif]

So maybe the difference between Sue and Grif's experience is heat? If our cladding has the same issues as GM cladding, which is to say contaminants are driven to the surface by heat, you would have to assume that process is occuring much faster in Arizona than in Washington or Alaska.

I live in Alabama, not Alaska. Tho i used to live in AK.

It is FREAKING HOT!!! And terribly humid here now.

[VX KAT]

Wear gloves.

Just found some at an art /craft store, product called "Turpenoid"....Ace and TrueValue didn't have ANY at all:_thinking...

I have those thin disposable latex gloves in a box...are those strong enough or will it eat through them?

I was thinking of using a microfiber type rag (and then throw it out)...sound OK?

[RickOKC]

Just found some at an art /craft store, product called "Turpenoid"....Ace and TrueValue didn't have ANY at all:_thinking...

I have those thin disposable latex gloves in a box...are those strong enough or will it eat through them?

I was thinking of using a microfiber type rag (and then throw it out)...sound OK?
Yikes, I'm out of my pay-grade on this one! Maybe a good test would be to pour a tiny bit of solvent in a glove's fingertip, tie it up and let it set for a little while to see if it eats through. You could even rub the glove with a rag to put a little more stress on it, too. I don't know if I'd waste a good microfiber cloth on this, probably any rag would be ok.

Hey did you have to trim your cladding? If so those leftover triangles would make the perfect "test area" if you still have them. Might even let a drop or two of solvent set on them for a while. (I think I'm paranoid about this due to the "don't rub gasoline off the cladding" note!)

[VX KAT]

I'm pretty sure I trimmed my cladding before I applied the R/R , but good idea. And I'd have to dig around to find those triangles...I think I kept them as souvenirs! And I could treat them with R/R, wait a few days, then try the remover I guess...nay, I'm not that patient.

[vt_maverick]

I live in Alabama, not Alaska. Tho i used to live in AK.

It is FREAKING HOT!!! And terribly humid here now.

Lol, good call, sorry. :p Tough to find any wider extremes in the US than that!

[RickOKC]

Hey Kat, how's your test going? Have you started yet? I didn't mean to imply that you would need to apply the RR to the "triangles" before you tried out the Turp Sub. My concern was just to make sure the solvent wouldn't melt off your texture.

My test is in process:
* Clean Cladding
* Apply the "stripes" of the three chemicals to compare
* Allow to set in for a day or so <--- current status
* Take photos & comment on observations
* Drive through dirty/dusty environment (easy to find in Okla!)
* Take more photos & comment
* Wash
* Take more photos & comment
* Wash again (?)
* Take more photos & comment

I'm impatient, too! I really liked the way the 303 looked on my first test area so I've been applying it to the non-test side of my VX because I suspect it will become my favorite coating so far.

[VX KAT]

I did a partial experiment last night...cleaned area, then applied 303 on front 1/3 of driver's side fender and about 5" wide path of driver side front cladding (that goes right up against front fender).
~R/R is mostly intact on fender
~R/R is chipped on front cladding area
~303 "appeared" to penetrate:_thinking...after I wiped it on, waited a few minutes, and also put a few finger streaks down it.
~Wiped dry with towel
~3 finger streaks were evident
~I could not get any type of residual on my fingers despite rubbing and twisting finger firmly on cladding. Did it penetrate? Did it harden? Where does the 303 go?
~After rubbing/twisting thumb firmly on an area, I could see a "marring" /"dulling" of the finish...leads me to believe 303 is still sitting on top of the R/R? Yet there was absolutely no residue on my finger, and it could be skin oil that caused the marring. Need to redo this with glove.
~Chipped areas still clearly visible
~Area was a tad darken and "more moist" looking
~Line of demarkation where I stopped was 100% evident.
~Everything still looks the same tonight

I also put 303 on the half moon, deepened color a tad, appears that satin finish may be a tad shinier??? Maybe because R/R gave my cladding such a satin/somewhat shiny finish?

I think I'll go play with the turp subs now....

[VX KAT]

Step 6 says "Liquid R/R" can be removed with tup subs, do you interpret that to mean turp sub would not work after it hardens?


Test results:
Did front driver's "corner" of cladding where there's so much chipping.
Total failure....turp subs didn't even phase the R/R.
I rubbed it on repeatedly and let it sit wet...nothing. Rubbed really hard...nothing...but I did kind of hear some faint crackling sound as I rubbed...perhaps the R/R was slightly cracking or the rag was catching the edges of the chipped areas...but still...no R/R was removed at all. No damage to cladding either, absolutely like I was just wiping it with water....
I have before & after pics..no change.:(

I think the above statement from the R/R data means it can only be removed if still wet...apparently not after it dries. There's probably some solvent that will remove it, but we don't know what it will do to the cladding.

Rowhard, can you snap a few pics so we can kind of see what it looks like with the One Grand ERV over the R/R?

[Riff Raff]

step 6, turpentine substitute. http://www.carsystem.ca/shared_files/catalog/fichiers/RefinishRestorer_gb.pdf

In steps 5 & 6; the R/R instructions stipulate to let the R/R penetrate a maximum 5 -- 10 minutes, and then "buff off" the R/R from the ENTIRE surface panel (not just the edges) until completely dry with a lint-free towel. If the R/R is applied and not immediately "buffed off" after sitting on the cladding for a maximum of 10 minutes, then I'd suspect the R/R will turn into a varnish/nail-polish like substance and become very brittle to rock chips and branch abrasions resulting in chipping/flaking. If the R/R is just goobered-on with a thick coat and left to dry that way without any "buffing" after the maximum 10 minute time period, then the varnish/nail-polish syndrome will become evident and extremely sensitive to chipping/flaking.

That's just my observations from reading the R/R instructions. Again; I haven't tried R/R on my cladding, but when I used R/R on my Hood Insert, I immediately "buffed off" the entire Hood Insert with a dry lint-free towel at the 8-minute mark (used a digital egg-timer, and didn't want to risk venturing past the 10-minute maximum mark). The R/R results were excellent on my Hood Insert and removed all discoloration and various sun-fade shadows.

Still; I'm not gonna risk my cladding to R/R and will use the TS-1 product instead, especially since it was mentioned by-name in the GM-TB. I will follow the TS-1 instructions to-the-letter, and wipe it down with a "damp/wet" cloth as per its instructions. We'll see how it goes, but Mr. Larry's VX review and the TS-1 website "links" has given me the confidence I need.

[VX KAT]

I followed the directions to the letter, soft flat brush, lint free rag or soft pad, went preciously 10 mins, wiped with the lint free rag, it captured any "runs"that may have formed.

Rif I don't see where step 5 or 6 mention anything about the
"and then "buff off" the R/R from the ENTIRE surface panel (not just the edges) until completely dry with a lint-free towel. So I'm not clear on your directions. Actually that sounds more similar to the directions to 303. They're quite clear on the procedure of wiping it dry completely with a lit free rag. Can you clarify that for me?

5. Refinish Restorer should take effect 5 to 10 minutes after application. Any liquid Refinish Restorer can be
brushed over a more porous area.
6. After a maximum of 10 minutes any excess oil should be removed with an absorbent lint free cloth or a soft
pad, otherwise it can only be removed with a suitable stain remover. Liquid Refinish Restorer can be removed
using a turpentine substitute
I also did my hood insert last yr (April), just one coat, came out great and hasn't had any chipping or anything, still looks beautiful, very happy with the way it came out. Glad to hear yours came out so great too!

Just gotta be something different either I did, or the composition of my front cladding, or the environmental aspects (heat/low humidity, etc), or the shear fact that I drive on extremely rough dusty roads where the front is constantly getting pelted with debris, and then the rest is highway driving mostly 65+ limit....but I may go a wee bit over that....sometimes, and it's still a high debris/sandy/dirt environment.

Think my options are to give it another good coat of R/R (hoping the chip defects get absorbed or covered), buy a new front cladding, Line-X the whole dang cladding, find a solvent that works to remove it. Petos had limited success when he heavily recoated his trying to get it to absorb larger globs where he'd forgotten to wipe them/blend them in before it hardened.

Think I'll try to write to mfg for some tech info.

But I'm really looking forward to your details RIff on the new stuff TS-1 and seeing the results. Post some pics when you get it done! As well as RickOKC's testing.

[Riff Raff]

I followed the directions to the letter, soft flat brush, lint free rag or soft pad, went preciously 10 mins, wiped with the lint free rag, it captured any "runs"that may have formed.

Riff, I don't see where step 5 or 6 mention anything about the
"and then "buff off" the R/R from the ENTIRE surface panel (not just the edges) until completely dry with a lint-free towel. So I'm not clear on your directions.

Petos had limited success when he heavily recoated his trying to get it to absorb larger globs where he'd forgotten to wipe them/blend them in before it hardened.

Ok; if you followed the R/R instructions to-the-letter as you say, then there must be another reason for the chipping/flaking. My reference to R/R instructions 5 & 6 were "paraphrasing" to simplify and possibly clarify their intent and NOT a direct quotation. If you're still confused on the R/R instructions, I don't know what else to tell ya'. Quit trying to pick a fight. I also remember PETOS having R/R problems, as he waited too long before buffing off the R/R. Lesson learned.

Since MR. LARRY's has already applied TS-1 to his VX with great success, perhaps he'll post some pictures and give us some more detailed information. Hint, hint, wink, wink.

[PK]

Quit trying to pick a fight.

Oh come on Riff.

If you really think Sue's response above was trying to pick a fight, then you have some serious phobias.

I have reread that response several times.
It still reads like Sue appreciated your input, politely corrected a couple of errors you made, and then encouraged your further input in regard to the alternative treatment.

What else do you want??

Seriously man.

PK

[Ldub]

Oh come on Riff.

If you really think Sue's response above was trying to pick a fight, then you have some serious phobias.

I have reread that response several times.
It still reads like Sue appreciated your input, politely corrected a couple of errors you made, and then encouraged your further input in regard to the alternative treatment.

What else do you want??

Seriously man.

PK

I think his "radar" must be stuck on...:rolleyesg...:laughing:

[vt_maverick]

Why do I get the feeling that after all this we're still going to end up finding that B2B is the best option? :laughing: Well for those not subjected to heavy dust or rains at least. ;)

Seriously though it does seem like TS-1 may offer the brightest hope so far. Rick and KAT, hurry up and finish your tests - my B2B bottle will run out soon!!! Lol...

[VX KAT]

Quit trying to pick a fight.



:confused:
Where'd that come from Riff? I thought we were all having a technical discussion here and doing some problem solving.....

I too hope "Mr Larry's" can get some pics, but if he doesn't, I hope you can when you get your TS-1.

[Riff Raff]

:confused:
Where'd that come from Riff?

Exactly my point. Play nice.:rollo:

[vt_maverick]

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:iNtV5JPnN2Z4vM:http://www.andrerieutranslations.com/images/violin123.jpg

[Riff Raff]

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:iNtV5JPnN2Z4vM:http://www.andrerieutranslations.com/images/violin123.jpg

:laughing:LMFAO:laughing:

[Moncha]

The violin was meant for you.. So, I'm not sure what you're laughing at.
do me a favor, turn the RADAR off... There was no picking here.. she's just trying to get some questions answered and you seemed to have some of the answers. If you don't care to help just say so. Brush the dust off the shoulders and don't look at everything so hyper-critical and lets have some fun.

[Riff Raff]

No worries, Scott. The issue has been resolved. I've already put it behind me and moved on. Cheers.:bgwb:

[vx2darescue]

there is a product made by meguiars called endurance high gloss. it is a tire protecting gel that works great to clean and shine the cladding to a like new state. you can get it at most car care places.

[vx2darescue]

I am having a cladding issue of my own. My V was rearended last week and the insurance company is fixing it which was welcome news after the horror stories that I have heard about the # of totals that occur. However the company is replacing damaged cladding with new cladding only in the rear. leaving me with a three toned car. Kiaser silver, 10 years of fadded cladding and new shiny black cladding. I now have to prove that is devaluing the vehicle. I need third party bids of my vehicle with original equipmant and now with the crappy missmatched cladding to prove that my car is worth less now than prior to the accident. Any help you all can give me would be helpful.

[circmand]

I feel for you. But trying to prove it may be difficult, it may then increase the cost to repair just enough for them to total the VX instead of repair. I would instead ask that after the VX is repaired they also pay for a detail jod that includes the best type of cladding restoration you can find. Beleive it or not some of this stuff restores the cladding to black (yeah yeah gray blah blah blah) and then just keep up the cladding care. After all this is the same as trying to get an overall paint job for a fender bender.

[Luna X]

ok, I'm reading page after page about the cladding.... It's raw plastic made into whatever shape needed from the factory. Bottom line is that it has no UV protection to it. It will fade, then we can treat it... but by no means, put anything that creates a hard shell. It won't stick and will peel/flake off. Remember, the cladding has a slight texture to it so that's yet another deterrent for adhesion.
There are a number of steps that can be taken to prep the stuff for painting or maybe like what some have done (rhinolining) but it does involve numerous steps with numerous products.
So, whichever product is easy to apply after your 2-3 washing, that's what I would recommend... ;)

[rowhard]

I would instead ask that after the VX is repaired they also pay for a detail jod that includes the best type of cladding restoration you can find.

and I think that might be gatorback http://www.gatorbackcoatings.com/application-demo.htm

If you can get them to pay for this, you will be way ahead of the rest.

Oh, last time I spoke with them, they did a VX in the dark grey which was a match

[VX KAT]

ok, I'm reading page after page about the cladding.... It's raw plastic made into whatever shape needed from the factory. Bottom line is that it has no UV protection to it. It will fade, then we can treat it... but by no means, put anything that creates a hard shell. It won't stick and will peel/flake off. Remember, the cladding has a slight texture to it so that's yet another deterrent for adhesion.
There are a number of steps that can be taken to prep the stuff for painting or maybe like what some have done (rhinolining) but it does involve numerous steps with numerous products.
So, whichever product is easy to apply after your 2-3 washing, that's what I would recommend... ;)

Hey Dan, why didn't you jump in sooner! LOL! That's why I'm glad you're on the forum now, you have such great experience & knowledge. I certainly welcome your input/direction any time.

One point I think may be pertinent to mention here is that both R/R & TS-1 both say they penetrate the surface/plastic cladding. So maybe that changes how it adheres.

Think I'm going to apply some more R/R on the front, see how it looks..otherwise, I may look into getting a new bumper, or maybe even that non-OEM replacement bumper with the texture, then none of my cladding will match! :roll: Anybody have a spare bumper to sell? :goof:

[Luna X]

Think I'm going to apply some more R/R on the front, see how it looks..otherwise, I may look into getting a new bumper, or maybe even that non-OEM replacement bumper with the texture, then none of my cladding will match! :roll: Anybody have a spare bumper to sell? :goof:

Sue,
Don't go spending money on a new bumper cover... when you come down next week, I'll see what I can do about getting all that flaking/chipping stuff off so you have a clean slate to work with.
'Till then, don't put anymore layers of anything on... o-tay?

[VX KAT]

Sue,
Don't go spending money on a new bumper cover... when you come down next week, I'll see what I can do about getting all that flaking/chipping stuff off so you have a clean slate to work with.
'Till then, don't put anymore layers of anything on... o-tay?

O-Tay, 10-4!
Tanks!

[VX KAT]

Well heck, here's a new development!
Took it to the self serve car wash place with the pressure washer(where you put a bunch of quarters in). With all the rains this season, I've got mud caked all over the place...maybe not as much as CrotchRocket :p, but still lots of it.

So I blasted the heck out of everything, especially the cladding and wheel wells where the mud is....well guess what?.... when drying I discovered I blasted a bunch of R/R off too!!! I've got some large areas (like 7" x 5") mostly over the wheel wells that are nekkid cladding! Since that's where I concentrated the spray, that's what got blasted the hardest...and took off the most R/R.
WAHOO!!!!!

Whatdaya think Luna?? Shouldn't I go back and blast some more?

[vt_maverick]

Go for it!!!

http://media.spokesman.com/photos/2009/06/29/Obit_Billy_Mays_t450.jpg

[VX KAT]

Billy Mays...my hero! ....well until he died with cocaine in his system....

I've got lots of quarters and I'm not afraid to use'm!

[Luna X]

I was already thinking about using a high pressure air-gun to blast that stuff away... so if the pressure is washer is doing the job then definately, take the rest off that coating off.
Confirms my statement about stuff not adhering to the cladding without all the correct procedures... You will then be able to start over with the dressing of your choice! ;)

[rowhard]

to bad you don't have a home sprayer, you could load up some diluted caustic soda and really clean it for the next stuff you use. Just remember to protect skin and eyes and rinse well. It is corrosive to skin and metals

[VX KAT]

I was already thinking about using a high pressure air-gun to blast that stuff away... so if the pressure is washer is doing the job then definately, take the rest off that coating off.
Confirms my statement about stuff not adhering to the cladding without all the correct procedures... You will then be able to start over with the dressing of your choice! ;)

Yup, your right Luna....despite what it said about penetrating the plastic and bonding with the molecules blah blah blah....it doesn't "appear" to have bonded too well to my cladding! :rollo: Oh yeah, we must remember though that my cladding is "special" and apparently a one off and from some other planet, so it doesn't do anything as predicted! :rollo: :goof:

[RickOKC]

OK, I've finished my cladding experiment (bwaa ha ha haaa!)

* 303 Aerospace Protectant
* Meguiar's Natural Shine
* Mothers Back to Black

For me there is no obvious winner. The end result of all three looked very good. The application method is the same: apply solution onto a rag, rub into cladding & wipe off the excess. Easy.

303 Aerospace Protectant
All three left a shiny finish, but 303 looks almost like there is a hard coating over the cladding. From some angles, it almost looked a little blue (maybe it's so shiny it reflects the sky? I dunno.) The cladding looked slightly darker, the coverage is "even" and the end result looked the most like what I would expect as see new from the factory. It held dust, but maybe just a tiny bit more than the un-treated cladding.* Dust was as easy to remove as wiping it off the paint. I wouldn't hesitate to use a California Duster on it, but I'd probably use the one that I had recently "retired." 303 feels completely dry, but it's actually a little oily (tape won't stick to it, for example.) It's by far the least tolerant to water and washing. After the first wash, it was completely gone, and after the second wash it left behind a perfectly clean, streak-free surface. Even one drop of water will remove it almost as if it "eats" the 303.

Meguiar's Natural Shine
This also has a shiny finish and is the hardest to get an even result. It's not a chore to get even, just slightly harder than the others. It likes to collect in the texture so you will have to go over it more times with a dry rag to wipe off the excess. The cladding looked slightly darker and it seems to hide more minor flaws in the cladding. It held much more dust than the un-treated cladding.* Wiping off dust is easy, but requires slightly more effort than the 303. I consider it to also be California Duster friendly, but it is a little oily. It can streak after a wash but the majority of what is left behind was fairly even. The second wash nearly removed it all.

Mothers Back to Black
Also shiny, but it's more of a wet-look than a gloss. The cladding was easily the darkest of the three, often looking extremely dark depending on the angle of the lighting. The end result is deep and extremely even and it hides even more flaws in the cladding. It attracted enough dust to make a crust and removing it requires slightly more effort.* The first light swipe left streaks, but they can be worked out after a few more tries. Looks like a good way to kill a California Duster because it's very oily and almost feels sticky. It held up the best after 2 washes and looked the most even after each.


Starting Point.
Yes, my cladding is streaky! I'm surprised since it was perfectly clean after I had used some heavy-duty stuff to remove the nasty Bondo Restore Black that I had inherited with my VX. I'd treated all the cladding afterward with Natural Shine and then washed it off a few days later. Obviously I did a very poor job. I blame being hard to see since I waited until night so it would be cooler. Also, the new Natural Shine I put on is very uneven here. I did that the same night and didn't look at it again since it was "hidden" on the passenger side and I didn't realize what a bad job I'd done until I got out to take photos. DOH! After applying the products, I waited 2 days before proceeding.

Left to right: 303, Natural Shine, Back to Black

http://members.cox.net/radamsokc/Clean-DO.jpg


http://members.cox.net/radamsokc/Clean-FF.jpg


http://members.cox.net/radamsokc/Clean-FB.jpg


Dusty!
* Awwww CRAP! I just dawned on me as I was writing this and looking at my pictures - this is a lousy test. Notice that the product closest to the wheel is the dustiest, then the next one is less dusty and the one farthest away had the least dust. That would happen no matter what, even if there was a solid coating of just one product. You can also see the "worst to best" pattern repeated in the leftover stripes from the old Meguiar's coating on the lower section. Oh well, I had good intentions.

Left to right: 303, Natural Shine, Back to Black


http://members.cox.net/radamsokc/Dirty-DO.jpg

http://members.cox.net/radamsokc/Dirty-FF.jpg

http://members.cox.net/radamsokc/Dirty-FB.jpg


Wash 1
Used a mild car wash soap (Meguiars) and washed/dried lightly. I didn't scrub, but I didn't baby it either. I wanted to recreate just what I'd do during a normal wash.

Left to right: 303, Natural Shine, Back to Black

http://members.cox.net/radamsokc/Wash1-DO.jpg

http://members.cox.net/radamsokc/Wash1-FF.jpg

Wash 2
Same as above, just lighter and too hard to see in photos.


So... the best is... whatever works for you, just like what has been suggested here all along!

Both 303 and Back to Black look very different, but they each have unique qualities I like. I'm also a big fan of the low-gloss look of the Natural Shine and know from experience it looks nice when applied to the whole vehicle.

I'm pretty sure I'll be a fan of 303 during summer & fall when we get little rain and tons of dust here in Oklahoma. As you can see by my repeated mention of the California Duster, I use it a LOT - every day or two after work. We have acres of gravel parking lots surrounding our business and that constant wind actually leaves "dust drifts." What I'll do in winter / rainy seasons? I'll just have to experiment.

Oops, edit: VX with solid coat of 303:

http://members.cox.net/radamsokc/303.jpg

[VX KAT]

:thumbup: KUDOS Rick! This was a great comparison, even with the limitations you had. It's great to see some actual pics, so it's really valuable even as is!
I just discovered that FRESH 303 will attract SOME dust.....I was being sweet to my honey and after he washed his Polaris RAZR, I started 303ing it...black plastic fender cladding, black side panels, black hood, front light surrounds that are black plastic. Only got to do driver's fenders/side as it got too stinkin' hot........he went on a ride about 2 hrs later, came back pretty dusty only on the driver's side starting from the rear of the front tire wheel well back, (just as Rick pointed out too....so are you going to redo it using horizontal stripes??). Wiped off easily with Calif car duster, not sticky or oily. So the parts that get more blowing air, or don't get sprayed from the tire dirt, don't collect much dust.

Part 2 -Did the passenger side, waited 2 days, then went on a ride...much much less dust sticking, absolutely just like it would've been w/o any 303.

TEACHABLE MOMENTs: I just had to use this silly phrase! :laugho:
My impressions:

1) Don't go anywhere dusty for 2 days after applying 303...i.e. let it dry for a while. I'm beginning to think that's why directions EMPHASIZE to wipe/rub it down DRY immediately.....which of course, I didn't follow to the letter...I wiped it on, and wiped it several more times, still with the damp 303 rag.....looked fine to me :slap:

2) Applying 303 to rubber appears to be entirely different than applying to plastic. The rubber areas on my roof rack have been thru lots of rain, and they're still darker than pre-303, doesn't appear to have washed off as easily as Rick experienced. Likely that 303 absorbs into rubber much more so than plastic.

3) The black/dark charcoal gray plastic components of my roof rack where I applied it over 2 months ago, thru several rain storms, still appear to be "treated", a little less than when I 1st applied it, but not back to original state. So it appears it can be more durable in some materials.

4) I'm really thinking there's a "drying" or "curing" time that's beneficial to 303 being more long lasting.

5) I've done my entire interior panels, dash, console, door panels, etc...over 3 months ago (actually before I went to Moab), still looks great, no abnormal dust collection.

6) Ashley I think that's why your cladding DOES look a tad darker, from your use of the B2B. Looks great!

So just like Rick said, which product is best depends on your circumstances.

Can't wait to hear more info/details/impressions of the TS-1.

[vt_maverick]

So just like Rick said, which product is best depends on your circumstances.

Can't wait to hear more info/details/impressions of the TS-1.

Ditto on KAT's compliments Rick, this is easily the most useful thread on cladding that I've seen in a long time. I'm also looking forward to the TS-1 review - I'm hoping that it's the one shot wonder (although this test would tend to make you believe there's no such thing).

That's a real bummer on the 303 being so easy to wash off. I really like the last pic you posted of 303 on the entire vehicle and being able to wipe off dust with a California Duster (I use one pretty frequently too) without bad streaking (a la B2B) is a real plus. But the trade-off of losing the entire coating after a single rainy day is a real bummer.

Oh well, for my money anyway, I'll stay with B2B pending results on TS-1.

[RickOKC]

Thanks, Kat! I've been thinking about how I could have handled my dust test better. I wonder if the back would have been the best place. (Horizontal stripes might still be unfair to the product closest to the bottom.) Oh, and I need to add to my notes that I did let the VX sit for 2 days after applying the treatments. Should also mention I use a mild car wash soap (Meguiars).

Your comments about rubber reminded me why I expected the Meguiar's to work better. I've used that on tires for years and it will still look very good after 2 - 4 washes. I think you're exactly right about it absorbing better into softer surfaces.

I'm wondering if it's actually possible to get the cladding completely dry after applying 303. I'd used a clean terry towel to dry it, but like I mentioned in my write-up, "tape wouldn't stick to it." (I made another attempt with headlight restorer yesterday and taped around the lights to protect the surrounding surfaces.) Maybe it just wasn't absorbing because I'd used that towel before for removing wax or something and the previous chemicals didn't wash out completely. :_confused

[RickOKC]

Thank you Maverick! Right now the 303 is undergoing The Rain Test. :) So far it's just been sprinkling lightly, but I'm hoping for at least a few minutes of real rain to see what happens. Hmmm, if it all washes off nicely, maybe I'll go ahead and re-do the dust test on the back cladding over the next few days... (I'm sure my neighbors think I've secretly married my VX considering all the time we've been spending together in the garage. Oh well, they already thought I was the weird neighbor guy.)

I'm really looking forward to the TS-1 reviews, too. Actually, I'm looking forward to the long term tests - that stuff is expensive!

[vt_maverick]

Maybe it just wasn't absorbing because I'd used that towel before for removing wax or something and the previous chemicals didn't wash out completely. :_confused

Just a tip here, and you probably already know this, but if you wash your stuff in the washing machine or dry them in the drier, make sure you DON'T USE FABRIC SOFTENER. That stuff doesn't come out and can mess with your wax.

[RickOKC]

DON'T USE FABRIC SOFTENER. That stuff doesn't come out and can mess with your wax.

I wish you had told me that years ago! After decades of detailing, I only learned that just last summer! :mbrasd:

Hmmmm, I've been thinking about starting a topic on detailing tips...

[VX KAT]

I'm really looking forward to the TS-1 reviews, too. Actually, I'm looking forward to the long term tests - that stuff is expensive!

I PM'd "mr larry's" the other day to ask if he could give us some details, impressions, pictures on the TS-1...no response yet.

Also...I just don't seem to see the same result on the 303 washing off so easily..:_thinking...I've slathered it on just about everything our house..the plastic hose caddy, the shop vac (well that doesn't get wet), extensions cords, all tires, everything plastic & rubber on our travel trailer and my other truck, and especially on my roof rack cross members AND the metal Yakima basket ....doesn't seem that it washed off. I'm puzzled...:_thinking...

[RickOKC]

I now think part of my issue was that the 303 needed more cure time!

Friday evening: applied 303 to all the cladding.

Sunday morning: had some water from the garden hose splash off the driveway onto the cladding which made it look like the water caused the 303 to "evaporate" where the drops touched.

Sunday afternoon: Finally got to polish & wax the paint! Got some wax on the cladding on a couple of places near the top edge. After cleaning off the wax, I went around the top 1" of the cladding with fresh 303 to even it out - all the way around the VX, even in the places that didn't really need it.

Monday morning: 3 miles of my drive to work was in a very light rain. Later in the morning, it sprinkled for about 10 minutes.

Tonight I see that 1" line where I applied the freshest 303 washed off to a much greater degree than on the rest of the cladding. There are some light stripes on the side cladding that had cured more and some big thin patches on the front that took the brunt of the rain while driving. But that 1" line at the top left a very obvious line where the fresh 303 was affected much, much more.

Hmmm, I also wonder if the super-hard water here could make a difference. (I'm talking about water so hard you can cut yourself just by washing your hands! Nyuck, nyuck!) That's a big issue here - I have to be super careful when I wash my other car. Its paint is pretty soft and if the water dries on it, I have to use vinegar to remove the water spots. That's city water; I don't have the same problem with rain.

[workmeistr]

Hi, Rick!
I apply 303 over my Refinish Restore (1 coat) cladding every once in a while. It looks good, but I too have seen the streaks with water/rain, but thought it was due to me applying over the candy coating of the RR, not allowing the 303 to soak into the raw cladding. My RR still looks good and I was planning to do another coat as a few door strikes and other nicks have "chipped" the RR off in a couple of places. Now I'm worried to add another coat, give the potential for normal chipping, especially on the front. The RR did wonders on my Saab which has it's share of black plastic all around. :yeso:

[VX KAT]

Looking over some older posts yesterday, I found I first posted about R/R starting to chip just 4 months after I applied the 1st coat. I didn't see any on the front (which I would expect would chip first:_thinking), just some on the sides. If yours isn't chipping by now, it seems more likely my surface wasn't prepped properly.

[mrlarrys]

Hey everyone,
I will post some pictures of the VX with the armourdillo today - it went on easy, satin finish not collecting any dust, seemed to make it darker although mine was a bit faded. A definite improvement - it has stood up well and the only problem is I used only one small wipe to do the car and I think it would have came out better using two - more is better. Of course I can now put on a second coat to even things out.
Larry

[mrlarrys]

Just posted pics in my members photo's - did not clean the VX and it was taken on a rainy day - no drips like the armorall gave me and looks like the day I put the TS-1 on - still satiny as you can see and stood up to 3 hand washes and one car wash since using and a few rainy days.

[vt_maverick]

Looks really nice Larry, thanks for the pics. Of course it's always hard to compare cladding via pics, but I'd say it looks equally as good as my cladding with B2B. So if it doesn't run in the rain and/or attract dust, I'd say we have a winner.

When you bought the TS-1 stuff, where did you order it and what quantity did you buy? I seem to remember there being like a 4-pack and a 20-pack (or something like that). How often do you think you'll need to reapply?

[VX KAT]

http://www.smileyshut.com/smileys/new/free-jumping-smileys-463[1].gif (http://www.smileyshut.com/facebook-smileys.html)http://www.homedonkey.com/homedonkey.png (http://www.homedonkey.com/)http://www.smileyshut.com/smileys/new/free-jumping-smileys-463[1].gif (http://www.smileyshut.com/facebook-smileys.html)

http://www.homedonkey.com/homedonkey.png (http://www.homedonkey.com/)
:dan_ban::dan_ban::dan_ban::dan_ban::dan_ban:
Went to the pressure washer again and for 5mins worth of blasting, I got about 95% of my R/R OFF!!!!
My cladding is mostly NEKKID NOW!!!!! I LOVE NEKKID......
................
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CLADDING, WHAT DID YOU THINK I MEANT PK???!!!!

I'll be able to finish it off in the next few days! WOHOOO!!!!!
It's got a matte/velvet kind of look to it now...and very clearly a pale bluish-grey color.

Dug up an older post where Don Moore mentioned a friend with a Chevy Avalance used black shoe polish and it worked pretty good, anybody know more about that? LUNA- put your thinking cap on overdrive and see if you can think of a great way to darken my cladding!! We've got a blank canvas now!!

p.s....my gas tat is still there...:rollo:.just defies logic.....but hey, it's my signature mark now!....yeah, now it's considered artwork! :laugho:

[RickOKC]

Yay! I'm glad you were able to remove the RR! Sorry it didn't work out for you, of course, but I'm happy to hear it is reversible!

[Riff Raff]

When you bought the TS-1 stuff, where did you order it and what quantity did you buy? I seem to remember there being like a 4-pack ........

VT--- Yup, see my Post #7 of this thread. My 4-pack of TS-1 (cost = $30) just arrived in the mail today.:bgwb:

[technocoy]

KAT,

Sorry you are having such a fiasco with your cladding. I really think there must be some magical barrier on your cladding!

I'm a good time on and still no flakes/chips. I am seeing some thinner spots where I may reapply after washing several times, but it's been by FAR the best treatment I have done with my cladding. I did however pretty much windex the entire surface before putting mine on.

I just don't want others to be completely scared off. Although, I am glad to know that were I to develop chips I can take it off completely with a powerwasher. I reality though it would probably be to just put it back on with a clean slate. I mean, I think I could go a full year or more at this point without having to treat my cladding at all!

I hope whatever you try next works out much better though Kat. I know the feeling when your baby just doesn't look her best!

Good luck!
- Technocoy

[VX KAT]

Glad the TS-1 arrived RIff....hope you get to apply it soon.
Does it give any special prep advice for the surface?? I haven't gone back to their website since the product was first mentioned a few weeks ago, so don't recall.
Let us know how it goes!!

I'm still just amazed how easy this was to blow off....guess that's cuz of that magical barrier! (Hey I'm almost starting to believe that :rollo:)

[Luna X]

For now, I'm gonna bow out of this debate..... Once the weather cools off, I will be prepping my VX for a complete paint job.
That includes spraying ALL the cladding with a fresh coat of black. I figure, since the VX has seen 10 years worth of sun out in the southwest, everything needs to be renewed.
Quite often, after the plastic has turned light grey too many times, wiping it down only helps for a couple days at a time.

My "mini poll" question.....
What color cladding should I go with: true black or dark grey? ;)

[deermagnet]

Luna, I know you're experienced and know the cladding needs lots of prep before painting, but take a look at this Isuzu bulletin. It shows what needs to be done depending on what brand products you use.

Cladding Refinish Procedures-Part 1 (http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/vx/vx5/claddingrefinish1.gif)

Cladding Refinish Procedures-Part 2 (http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/vx/vx5/claddingrefinish2.gif)

Cladding Refinish Procedures-Part 3 (http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/vx/vx5/claddingrefinish3.gif)

Cladding Refinish Procedures-Part 4 (http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/vx/vx5/claddingrefinish4.gif)

Cladding Refinish Procedures-Part 5 (http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/vx/vx5/claddingrefinish5.gif)

Mark

[Luna X]

Luna, I know you're experienced and know the cladding needs lots of prep before painting, but take a look at this Isuzu bulletin. It shows what needs to be done depending on what brand products you use.

Cladding Refinish Procedures-Part 1 (http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/vx/vx5/claddingrefinish1.gif)

Cladding Refinish Procedures-Part 2 (http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/vx/vx5/claddingrefinish2.gif)

Cladding Refinish Procedures-Part 3 (http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/vx/vx5/claddingrefinish3.gif)

Cladding Refinish Procedures-Part 4 (http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/vx/vx5/claddingrefinish4.gif)

Cladding Refinish Procedures-Part 5 (http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/vx/vx5/claddingrefinish5.gif)

Mark

It's impressive that Isuzu actually puts that info together... These bulletins are exactly what I was referring to when I mentioned there are numerous procedures to go along with numerous products.
Only one of these products (Spies Hecker..high end, expensive) talks about restoring texture back to a repaired piece.
I, unfortunately, had to repair the left, rear bumper cover after only owning our VX for 2 weeks...http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/P1000041.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18303)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/P1000063_edited-1.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18313)

[vt_maverick]

My "mini poll" question.....
What color cladding should I go with: true black or dark grey? ;)

I'd go with matte black, seems like it would look uber cool. :D

[circmand]

My "mini poll" question.....
What color cladding should I go with: true black or dark grey? ;)

You should go back to the original black

[Luna X]

You should go back to the original black

.... and doesn't "original black" spark up that old, what color IS the cladding debate?!?

[circmand]

.... and doesn't "original black" spark up that old, what color IS the cladding debate?!?

Me? NO! Would I do that? I am sure I have no idea what you are talking about

[FlyingV77]

Im glad this topic is back up. I used the TS-1 when i first got my VX last fall. I used one wipe for the job, including the hood insert. It went on very easy, and quickly.

My clading was very faded, and it brought it back to better than factory. I loved that it made it nice and dark without looking wet or greasy.

The TS-1 didnt drip, even when it rained a few days later. and i had zero dust colection. It lasted about 8 weeks and looked great! but once it wore off, it went back to the faded grey almost overnight.

Ive never seen it in a store. only at a Chevy parts department or online.

I will be staying with the TS-1 once i can get some more. i dont think anything else is worth the hassle.

[vt_maverick]

So here's a question for our TS-1 converts, how long should I wait after my last B2B application to try TS-1?

[rowhard]

So here's a question for our TS-1 converts, how long should I wait after my last B2B application to try TS-1?

Good question, and one I don't think anyone has the answer to since TS-1 just came to the fore front of applications for our cladding. Maybe Riff Raff will have a answer since TS-1 was just delivered to him. Maybe there is some insight on the spec sheet for prep.

[tom4bren]

So here's a question for our TS-1 converts, how long should I wait after my last B2B application to try TS-1?

Obviously you MUST wash it with dish soap before application of TS-1:)

[VX KAT]

Im glad this topic is back up. I used the TS-1 when i first got my VX last fall. I used one wipe for the job, including the hood insert. It went on very easy, and quickly.

My clading was very faded, and it brought it back to better than factory. I loved that it made it nice and dark without looking wet or greasy.

The TS-1 didnt drip, even when it rained a few days later. and i had zero dust colection. It lasted about 8 weeks and looked great! but once it wore off, it went back to the faded grey almost overnight.

Ive never seen it in a store. only at a Chevy parts department or online.

I will be staying with the TS-1 once i can get some more. i dont think anything else is worth the hassle.

This stuff is really sounding better & better. Do you happen to have any pics when it was on??

I've got to reread the info online, but I didn't think it would wear off, anybody else think that too?? :?:

[FlyingV77]

ill try to get some more at the begining of the week and take befor and after pics... if i can wake up during the day. working nights can suck some times. oh and every product wears off eventualy.

[FlyingV77]

didnt get a chance to do my cladding. ive been busy updating my home security. i cought the naibors trying to steal my wheels, im down one center cap.

[vt_maverick]

Off your stock rims?!?

[FlyingV77]

nope, my new rims

[RamAirZ]

I was cleaning up and found some of this old tire gel I used to use in my car show days, it was the best thing I ever found for tires, looked good for a long time so decided to try it on the cladding, we will see how it holds up to my dirt road lol:

http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/RamAirZ/1999%20Isuzu%20Vehicross/IMG_5150.jpg

http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/RamAirZ/1999%20Isuzu%20Vehicross/IMG_5151.jpg

http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/RamAirZ/1999%20Isuzu%20Vehicross/IMG_5152.jpg

http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/RamAirZ/1999%20Isuzu%20Vehicross/IMG_5153.jpg

http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/RamAirZ/1999%20Isuzu%20Vehicross/IMG_5155.jpg

[deermagnet]

What kinda tire gel did ya use? Lots of us been using Meguiar's Endurance High Gloss tire gel for 'bout eight years now. I love that stuff. After applying I rub it down with dry paper towels and it gives a nice wet, but not too wet look. I think there's a low gloss version which some seem to like more.

If there's dust or dirt on it, wet paper towels bring it back. It only needs to be re-applied after driving in the rain.

I forget who turned us on to this product for the cladding way back in the day, but I'd just like to thank them again. :yes: :thumbup:

http://www.wtv-zone.com/markg/mags/mags4/1125.jpg

http://www.wtv-zone.com/markg/mags/mags4/1102.jpg

Mark Griffin (a VX lifer) :_steering

[RamAirZ]

That's it! I used that for my tires back in the day on my Camaro and I loved it, found it sitting in a box and decided to try it out, that's funny lol. Says "lasts weeks not days" on it right

[deermagnet]

Yeah, it'll last weeks without driving high speed thru heavy rain. If it sits in the rain, wet towels clean it up nice. A short drive in some light rain and ya might be okay.

Mark

[RamAirZ]

rained a little today and still looks alright. If it last between washes (usually a week or 2) I'm ok with that. As long as it doesn't start running and looking worse than not having it "coated" at all

[Mile High VX]

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/Protectant.jpg

It worked easy and looks great...the hood insert is amazing. It causght my eye since it actually had a picture of cladding on the bottle.

It was dark when I finished so pics tomorrow...:yeso::bgwo:

[vt_maverick]

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/Protectant.jpg

It worked easy and looks great...the hood insert is amazing. It causght my eye since it actually had a picture of cladding on the bottle.

It was dark when I finished so pics tomorrow...:yeso::bgwo:

That's the same stuff I tried a week ago... just got rain for the first time today and it's already running!!! I'm hoping that it's due to there being some amount of B2B left on the cladding from previous applications.

[Mile High VX]

It was dark when I finished so pics tomorrow...:yeso::bgwo:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCN02711.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCN02722.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCN02741.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCN02731.JPG

And a question for any of the original owners...did the side marker lens housing and the cladding match when your VX was new, or has it always been much darker?

I'm anxious to see how it holds up to washing and rain.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCN02762.JPG

[Cobrajet]

And a question for any of the original owners...did the side marker lens housing and the cladding match when your VX was new, or has it always been much darker?I never noticed, but now that you mention it, they are just a little bit darker. Like the difference between dark gray and darker gray, but not quite black... (I'm having a Déja vu moment.)

[JHarris1385]

I went over with a light coat of ICE and then sprayed interior Turtle Wax on the cladding. It has held up 3 rains now and no streaking. This is what I have always done. Other than the pre coat of ice. I didnt like that since ICE is not super shiny.

[Mile High VX]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/99-ISUZU-vehiCROSS-silver-red-black-interior-110k-/220671903202?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&amp;hash=item33611205e2 #v4-38

Looks like they used the black and not the dark grey which is a better match from what I've heard.

[JHarris1385]

Alright I put my above coat(s) on the first of the month and it has still not streaked. I have sprayed it down too. Ill try to take a picture tomorrow.

[vt_maverick]

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/Protectant.jpg

That's the same stuff I tried a week ago... just got rain for the first time today and it's already running!!! I'm hoping that it's due to their being some amount of B2B left on the cladding from previous applications.

Update from previous post... I applied another coat of this stuff over the weekend and had different results that are encouraging. When I did the first coat a few weekends ago, the cloths I used were completely black after applying it. At the time I thought it must be a byproduct of the Meguiar's product (similar to what happens when you rub a cloth over a fresh coat of tire black), but when reapplying it Sunday night it didn't turn the cloths black at all. Now my suspicion is that the black substance was actually Back to Black residue coming off the cladding.

The Meguiar's product is very similar to their Cleaner Wax in consistency (thick just like liquid wax) as well as function, as Cleaner Wax removes crap in your paint that washing doesn't. Back to Black on the other hand is a thin, runny substance that looks oily after application. So now I wonder whether the running was due to the last remnants of B2B preventing the Meguiar's stuff from fully adhering to the surface. Can't wait for the next rainfall to see if the running stops or at least slows. I know I had terrible problems with B2B running at first, but after reapplying it every few weeks for several months the streaking was much less pronounced. Let's hope it's the same with this stuff.

Oh and one more thing - the label is right, you can definitely use a car duster on it without streaking the coating or rubbing dust/pollen into it. Anyone who's tried using a car duster on B2B treated cladding should know that's a huge improvement.

[vt_maverick]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/99-ISUZU-vehiCROSS-silver-red-black-interior-110k-/220671903202?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&amp;hash=item33611205e2 #v4-38

Looks like they used the black and not the dark grey which is a better match from what I've heard.

That is freaking awesome. I wonder how much it would cost to do that? I assume since the "naked" VX pics look like they were taken in his garage that he probably did it himself though.

[VX KAT]

That is freaking awesome. I wonder how much it would cost to do that? I assume since the "naked" VX pics look like they were taken in his garage that he probably did it himself though.

I thought so too, so I wrote to the seller: Here's response:

Dear purple.kat1,

The plastic coating is called Gator Back, and it is a GM product, made for the vinyl bits of their Avalanche
trucks. I can't remember exactly where to buy it, I bought it both from their site and once from eBay, but if
you do a Google search is is easy enough to find. The color of your current panelling isn't an issue, as this is
like a paint in that it coats and covers the surface entirely, but it is actually and aerosol form of plastic, so
once it is sprayed a chemical process begins and as it cures it actually bonds with the plastic on your
cladding and becomes part of it, resurfacing the old with a new layer of plastic. It is also more fade resistant
that the stock material. I keep an extra can of it on hand to use in case anyone scratches my bumper while
parking etc... But I have not had to use it yet, so it is durable. You will need about six to eight cans of it
depending on how heavy handed you are in your application, I am usually of the more is better schoool of
thought, and you best result is going to be if you take the time to remove all the cladding entirely, give is a
good sanding with a fine grit paper, and a thorough wash and dry, then apply in a sealed area.
I can't tell you exactly how many hours of labor are involved as I did this at the same time as the cutting and
buffing of the paint, but the two together took about thirty to fourty hours of work, so if you don't have the
time and space to do it yourself, it would likely be quite expensive, although I am sure a pro could do it in
far less time.

hope that helps...C.

I recall Luna said NOT to sand the cladding. I might look into this stuff further, and as to cost.

Riff- Have you applied the TS-1 stuff yet? If not, think you'll be doing it in the near future? I'm still thinking about that product too.

[vt_maverick]

What I wonder is what's the difference between Gatorback and TS-1? Weren't they both recommended/created/owned by GM?

[Mile High VX]

http://www.gatorbackcoatings.com/

$22.95 for an 11 oz. areosol can. Fully cladded Avalanche takes 8 cans, but says for vehicles with bumpers and running boards it takes 2 cans.

Areosol cleaner also available for $7.95 and contains no mineral spirits.

Some good customer testimonials and the GM service notices.

I would guess that this process would cover scratches and slight imperfections.

[RickOKC]

Hmmm, I'd like to see some close-up photos of the end result. I definitely don't think the cladding would look nearly as awesome if the factory texture was sanded off. Or does this coating leave a similar texture?

[Mile High VX]

Hmmm, I'd like to see some close-up photos of the end result. I definitely don't think the cladding would look nearly as awesome if the factory texture was sanded off. Or does this coating leave a similar texture?

If you look at the application instructions they have some good close ups of the Avalanche cover that shows how it leaves the factory texture...

[RickOKC]

Ah ha. Thanks! AND, it looks like the seller from eBay sanded his cladding, yet I don't see that as part of the "official" instructions from GatorBack.

I wonder if the right color to order is Dark Gray or Black. Maybe I should start a poll? :p

[vt_maverick]

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/Protectant.jpg

It worked easy and looks great...the hood insert is amazing. It causght my eye since it actually had a picture of cladding on the bottle.

It was dark when I finished so pics tomorrow...:yeso::bgwo:


That's the same stuff I tried a week ago... just got rain for the first time today and it's already running!!! I'm hoping that it's due to there being some amount of B2B left on the cladding from previous applications.


Update from previous post... I applied another coat of this stuff over the weekend and had different results that are encouraging. When I did the first coat a few weekends ago, the cloths I used were completely black after applying it. At the time I thought it must be a byproduct of the Meguiar's product (similar to what happens when you rub a cloth over a fresh coat of tire black), but when reapplying it Sunday night it didn't turn the cloths black at all. Now my suspicion is that the black substance was actually Back to Black residue coming off the cladding.

The Meguiar's product is very similar to their Cleaner Wax in consistency (thick just like liquid wax) as well as function, as Cleaner Wax removes crap in your paint that washing doesn't. Back to Black on the other hand is a thin, runny substance that looks oily after application. So now I wonder whether the running was due to the last remnants of B2B preventing the Meguiar's stuff from fully adhering to the surface. Can't wait for the next rainfall to see if the running stops or at least slows. I know I had terrible problems with B2B running at first, but after reapplying it every few weeks for several months the streaking was much less pronounced. Let's hope it's the same with this stuff.

Oh and one more thing - the label is right, you can definitely use a car duster on it without streaking the coating or rubbing dust/pollen into it. Anyone who's tried using a car duster on B2B treated cladding should know that's a huge improvement.

Well after a few days of rain I'm officially calling the Meguiar's product a failure, in fact I would say WRT rain resistance that it's significantly worse than Back to Black. It runs badly in the rain, and after 3 raining days in a row, it was completely gone from the cladding. :mad: The last coat was super thick and apparently it made no difference. If you live in a place with 300+ days of sunshine (hello Arizona folks) it's really a great product; it leaves a dark satiny finish without the greasy feel of Back to Black, and it stands up to sun very well. But for the rest of us (especially those in the PNW) I think it's a no-go.

On the plus side, since everything had washed off the cladding I decided to do a full coat of 303 to test it out. Good news is that it's supposed to rain for the next 2-3 days, so should be a pretty direct comparison to the Meguiar's. So far it looks great, at least as dark as Back to Black or Meguiar's. No oily finish like B2B, but I haven't run a California Car Duster over it yet. Another review to follow later this week...

[FlyingV77]

I found a pic on phone and just figuerd out how to send it to my comp.

This is an old pic, but just a few min after i aplied the TS1. It looked great, non-greasy.

The sun glare makes it look more grey, but it came out realy dark.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/VX29.jpg[img]

[vt_maverick]

I found a pic on phone and just figuerd out how to send it to my comp.

This is an old pic, but just a few min after i aplied the TS1. It looked great, non-greasy.

The sun glare makes it look more grey, but it came out realy dark.

How has it held up in the rain?

[FlyingV77]

it held up great, no streaks from the rain, didnt colect any dust, and it lasted almost 3 months. the odd thing is it didnt fade out. it looked great untill it wore off, and that transition was almost overnight.

It also worked great on the hood, mirrors, door handles even helped with the fuel door.

[vt_maverick]

Going to have to buy some of this stuff then, took the VX through a car wash yesterday afternoon and it washed most of the 303 off. You would think a marine protectant would be more resilient to water but I guess not. With winter on the way it would be nice to get the cladding protected while it's still warm out.

[vt_maverick]

Just ordered the TS-1, hoping it will arrive by Thursday so I can put it on Friday before I head out for the weekend. Fingers crossed...

[circmand]

Going to have to buy some of this stuff then, took the VX through a car wash yesterday afternoon and it washed most of the 303 off. You would think a marine protectant would be more resilient to water but I guess not. With winter on the way it would be nice to get the cladding protected while it's still warm out.

Back to black on mine tends to streak after awhile when I wash it. I would hate to have to reapply when the temp here starts dropping into the 60s

[mike nomy]

GATORBACK..... I know u all read my post! permanent and easy......

[Mile High VX]

Just ordered the TS-1, hoping it will arrive by Thursday so I can put it on Friday before I head out for the weekend. Fingers crossed...

Pics...when you can...before and after

[circmand]

GATORBACK..... I know u all read my post! permanent and easy......

But according to an earlier post you made you bought the VX in August 2010. I dont think 2 months is enough to call it permanent

[mike nomy]

what i mean by permanent is that it isn't a greasy film topical solution, like armorall. it is a finish.

[vt_maverick]

GATORBACK..... I know u all read my post! permanent and easy......

And more expensive, more complicated to apply, and as circmand pointed out, not fully vetted (i.e., only 1-2 members have actually documented their use of the product). I was one of the folks that decided to sit out the Refinish Restorer craze, and now that I've seen the problems Sue's had I'm glad I did. (For everyone that has RR and likes it, yes I know it's probably a great product 80+% of the time, just pointing out that we have documented weaknesses in the product.)

The way I see it I'm working my way up to GatorBack. B2B looked great and I didn't mind applying it every few weeks, but the streaks between drove me nuts. So I tried the Meguiar's product (twice as expensive as B2B) and it was worthless IMHO. I just tried 303 and although it didn't streak, it did wash off uniformly in the rain. So the last topical option is TS-1, and if that doesn't work to my satisfaction, I'll go with GatorBack. Hopefully between your experience with GatorBack and the stories posted by myself and others in this thread we can help new members to avoid wasting their money by learning from our trial and error.

[mike nomy]

just a lil extra bit:
the other day, after i tinted my lenses n clear coated them, i placed them back on my truck to make it easier to buff them out.
i got some wax n compound on the recently gatorbacked rear cladding, so i rubbed the hell out of it to get it all out.... the gatorback held up, no problems at all. i got all the residue off, which if anyone has ever gotten wax on any type of cladding knows how hard that is to accomplish.....
i say another point goes to GB!

[circmand]

just a lil extra bit:
the other day, after i tinted my lenses n clear coated them, i placed them back on my truck to make it easier to buff them out.
i got some wax n compound on the recently gatorbacked rear cladding, so i rubbed the hell out of it to get it all out.... the gatorback held up, no problems at all. i got all the residue off, which if anyone has ever gotten wax on any type of cladding knows how hard that is to accomplish.....
i say another point goes to GB!

I have gotten wax on my cladding came right off even after sitting while the rest of the wax dried. I can see the benefit. But with VXKats issue I am going to wait and see how GB holds up on yours. I also wonder how it will be affecting by gasoline spilled on it when fueling. Hey Im not dissing it but too much unknown to praise it. And I still have some B@B left over.

[mike nomy]

no doubt, just trying to help...

[circmand]

we do appreciate it

[RickOKC]

I also wonder how it will be affecting by gasoline spilled on it when fueling.

Thanks for the reminder. :) I've been meaning to mention the Gatorback site addresses this and I'd wondered if Mike had called them:


Anti Fuel-Staining Topcoat (http://www.gatorbackcoatings.com/products.htm#topcoat) is a catalyzed waterborne coating that resists staining from gasoline and other fuel additives. It is intended for application over GatorBack Textured Plastic Coating in areas that may be exposed to gasoline. It is not intended for application directly over raw TPO plastic as it does not have the same adhesive qualities as GatorBack Textured Plastic Coating on raw TPO.

On those vehicles with lower body hardware, the panel below the fuel filler door needs to be treated with Anti Fuel-Staining Topcoat. Not treating that panel with Topcoat creates the risk for staining and customer comebacks. Surface preparation, mixing, and application instructions are located on the label.

NOTE: Allow for the Gatorback Textured Plastic Coating to dry before applying Anti-Fuel Staining Topcoat.It looks like it is sold in pint cans only. They have light gray and dark gray, but black says: This color is currently unavailable. Contact Neil at 813.294.9219

[VX KAT]

If they're saying reapply TS-1 approx every 90 days, got me wondering....have you been able to/ or can you kind of wipe it off or mar it in some way? Flying V77 says it seems to just kinda die around day 90.

If it's only expected to last 90 days or so, I'm wondering how do you think it would respond to being brushed by bushes etc..?? Does it chip off (like R/R did)...I bet it does NOT chip off. It's sounding like a really long lasting "treatment", and not a coating like I believe R/R and GB to be.

I also wonder if GatorBack will scuff/chip off when abraded by bushes etc.....at least it appears GB can be "touched up" w/o looking like a patch.

Will continue to await more testing/observations!

[FlyingV77]

went to the chevy dealer yesterday to get some more of the tsr1. the guy behind the counter claimed they stoped selling it 4 years ago. i guess i have to get some online.... i hate online shoping.

[RickOKC]

Did you try a different Chevy dealer? Kind of reminds me of a couple shops I talked to here that told me, "You'll never get Isuzu parts, nobody sells them any more. Blah blah blah..." :p

It might be worth making a few calls if you want to avoid buying online.

[FlyingV77]

it was the same one i got it from last time. it was a long and strange conversation. he did try to sell me on gator back.

[vt_maverick]

Oh it's not that bad to shop online, just go here and buy yourself a 20-pad pack and you'll be done for a few years! :)

http://shop.armordillots1.com/

[Mile High VX]

a new player in the war to have nice looking cladding that last:

http://classic-motoring.stores.yahoo.net/blackwow1.html

Anyone used this or seen it before?

And the war goes on...:(

[Grif]

a new player in the war to have nice looking cladding that last:

http://classic-motoring.stores.yahoo.net/blackwow1.html

Anyone used this or seen it before?

And the war goes on...:(

Its proper application (minus the suggested pre-treat with 50% alcohol) and its properties and results are entirely consistent with R/R IMHO. Even its amber color is the same.

I venture to say its nearly the same product.

[vt_maverick]

Certainly cheaper than TS-1, but haven't had TS-1 on mine long enough to vouch for exactly how long it lasts. In any case, if this stuff is similar to Refinish Restorer count me out.

[vt_maverick]

Btw, I like the conflicting review on best application technique. The reviewer says:


There is no need to let the product dry or cure.

The instructions say:


Detailing trick: Now go back and wipe the trim with a damp cloth or sponge. This will insure a uniform, rich luster.

Damp cloths are what you use to cure this kind of product. :rolleyes:

[Cobrajet]

a new player in the war to have nice looking cladding that last:

http://classic-motoring.stores.yahoo.net/blackwow1.html

Anyone used this or seen it before?

And the war goes on...:(
Do you apply it with a ShamWow!? Then cure it with a damp WipeWow?

I'm skeptical of anything with a name like Super~ or Mega~ or ~Wow.

I'll stick with the name brands.

[VX KAT]

Here's some more product & advice to add to the cornfusion...:smilewink
For more, goog: bumper black paint...:yesgray:

http://www.superiorcarcare.net/forblacbumtr.html

http://www.tcpglobal.com/spraypaintdepot/bumper-coatings.aspx

http://www.ehow.com/how_5143210_paint-plastic-bumpers-truck.html

http://www.abc-bus.com/servicebulletins/SB1083%20Thermoplastic%20bumper%20shell%20painting .pdf

http://www.bodyshopbusiness.com/Article/3526/painting_plastic.aspx

http://www.urethanesupply.com/bccincompatible.php

http://www.pic4ever.com/images/acigar.gif I'll see your post on cladding treatments Dubster, and raise you a post.....http://www.pic4ever.com/images/gaah.gif.....http://www.pic4ever.com/images/ugly_irre.gif

J/K!

I've done some research on the AV forum on cladding treatments. http://www.pic4ever.com/images/118.gif
At least 15 different products mentioned. Many familiar to us such as: TS-1, Restore/Refinish and 303. Tons of good user experience info and many pics!

Found many users have now developed problems with GatorBack...if prep isn't absolutely perfect, it begins to peel and chip off. It also scratches off when abraided, some even say it wears off over time :_thinking
Many of these users have had it on for 1-3 yrs or more.

TOTAL SEARCH RESULTS FOR "GATORBACK"
http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com/cafcna/index.php?board=113.0

TSB from GM re: GatorBack:
http://www.gatorbackcoatings.com/pdf/home_GM_TSB_04-08-111-001E.pdf

SOME OF THE MORE PERTINENT THREADS WITHIN THOSE SEARCH RESULTS:

http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com/cafcna/index.php/topic,119244.0.html - TALKING ABOUT PROBLEMS WITH GATORBACK

http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com/cafcna/index.php/topic,117336.0.html - Details on APPLYING GatorBack

http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com/cafcna/index.php/topic,90475.0.html - Talking about using Refinish/Restore

http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com/cafcna/index.php/topic,124226.0.html - Talking about both GatorBack and Refinish/Restore

http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com/cafcna/index.php/topic,117082.0.html - Discussing GatorBack and TS-1

http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com/cafcna/index.php/topic,112257.0.html - Detailed description using Krylon Fusion and Duplicolor

http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com/cafcna/index.php/topic,114145.0.html - Linseed oil mentioned

http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com/cafcna/index.php/topic,39494.0.html - Long detailed test by a user of 7 products: (Done in 2005)
Cladding Protectant Product Test w/pics
Products used in Alphabetical order:
1 303 Aerospace Protectant
2 Klasse Sealant Glaze
3 Pennzoil All-in-One
4 NXT Wax not used on panel #3
5 NXT Rubber/Vinyl/Plastic Protectant
6 Stoner's Trim Shine
7 Turtle Wax Tire Shine
.....and a few other products......vinyl pencil eraser, peanut butter, Future floor wax (which is an acrylic), Mop-N-Glow floor wax, and even......linseed oil...just like CrotchRocket uses.


Here's a letter from GatorBack to Av owner that had a shop apply GatorBack 4 separate times....and its still not right!!! Includes a name and contact number for the GatorBack rep.


Shane,

I am very sorry to read about the difficulties you are experiencing with GatorBack. I believe that I can provide you with information to solve your difficulties. Chipping and peeling, where the GatorBack fails to adhere to the cladding, is caused by incomplete cleaning and prep work prior to the initial application. There is a three step process that involves first cleaning with denatured alcohol, a solvent-type cleaner to remove any residual material such as silicone that will interfere with adhesion. Secondly, the cladding is lightly abraded with Scotch-Brite gray scuff pads. This abrasion promotes adhesion. Finally, cleaning with the GatorBack Cleaner removes all remaining residue and renders the surfaces ready for the GatorBack application. The detailed instructions can be found on the home page of our web-site, www.GatorBackCoatings.com and entering the Cladding Restoration portal. On the home, in the center there will be a clickable area that will offer to download a PDF file about 8 pages long with all the steps detailed. Print the file and take it to the shop where you had your truck done.
Please understand that GatorBack is manufactured in huge quantities and every production run consists of enough product to do 216 vehicles. If there were to be a defective batch, it would affect 215 other customers. After having done over 30,000 Avalanches the past five-six years, I can tell you that we have not had 25 problems in that entire time span, let alone with any one batch.
The shop will probably not like to have to re-do the application, but that is the only way to solve your problem. They will have to remove the existing GatorBack with lacquer thinner and then proceed with the application process again.
Please feel free to contact me if I can be of any more information, and again, please accept my apologies that you have had to experience the problem with your application.

Neil Power
GatorBack Coatings
(813) 294-9219

*****************************

Some of my impressions after reading almost all day on this: :rollo:

~All agree GB looks fantastic. But, for anybody's cladding that might get scratched and abraided, GB can scratch and chip off in some incidences.

~Prep with GB must be exactly as outlined, and very very thorough or it will peel.

~TS-1 is well liked, most say it needs to be reapplied about every 2-3 months on average. No mention of scratching off as it appear to be more of a topical treatment (I know that's not exactly what the TS-1 info says), but lasts longer. States it still requires "prep" each time applied...(but I don't think Vt Mav found that necessary so far). Takes up to 9 wipes to do all cladding in an Av...ouch $$!

~Duplicolor & Fusion both will scratch off when abraided, though Fusion seemed to be a bit better. Look great when applied though.

~Many AV owners have found success with Restore/Refinish.....didn't find any real negatives posted. Interestingly, I didn't see any one mention scratching or chipping off.....makes me think (again) my prep was inadequate. One user did warn that it can be damaged/blasted off with high pressure car wash. :bgwo: I know!
I'd actually consider using this again if it was just a bit darker and a bit less "glossy" on the 2nd coat. Hmmmm, just gotta figger out how to dye it a bit... :_thinking
At least now know what to expect and how to treat it.

~Administrator of the AV forum who did the extensive testing of products back in 2005 is sold on "Future floor wax". Who knew?

~Really clear that different products will meet different needs of different owners.

~I couldn't find any GatorBack at any of the Phoenix dealerships I called, but now after reading so many accounts of it peeling and scratching off, I don't think testing is really necessary now. It will scratch & chip off if scratched hard enough.

[vt_maverick]

~TS-1 is well liked, most say it needs to be reapplied about every 2-3 months on average. No mention of scratching off as it appear to be more of a topical treatment (I know that's not exactly what the TS-1 info says), but lasts longer. States it still requires "prep" each time applied...(but I don't think Vt Mav found that necessary so far). Takes up to 9 wipes to do all cladding in an Av...ouch $$!

It's definitely a topical treatment, no matter what the packaging says, and I didn't do any surface prep other than a simple wash with a plastic-netted sponge. I did have streaking after my first application, but that's because it started sprinkling before I could finish. A good wash and second coat later and it looks great. (Btw, the TS-1 packaging doesn't mention any such elaborate surface prep process.)

A note on price: one of the guys in the AV forum quotes a price of something like $21/towel, but that's not accurate (at least as I understand what he means by "towel"). A box of 6 pads was $40 shipped, and it takes 2 to do all of our cladding in a nice thick coat. That's not exactly cheap, but if it lasts 2-3 months as advertised I figure you get nice looking cladding with minimal maintenance for about $50 a year.

[Ldub]

Can you really look at a pic like this & tell me that you really believe that dark VX's came with cladding that was as dark originally as lighter VX's...???

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/4103/54106396.jpg

[VX KAT]

Yeah, it may be true the darker colors got lighter cladding.....but I prefer darker cladding.....http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/angry/hissyfit.gif (http://www.thesmilies.com)...... :slap: http://www.pic4ever.com/images/snapoutofit.gif



.......and that cladding is way lighter than mine....so now I feel better....a little...

[RamAirZ]

I honestly think it's a mind-trick. The darker color of the vehicle makes the cladding look much lighter than say a white VX with the same color faded cladding, but in comparison to white, it still looks somewhat dark. I highly doubt Isuzu offered different cladding colors.

[VX KAT]

Noticed this '99 Astral seems to have exact same color cladding as mine, even in the shade. I realize pics can vary.
http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/ctd/2112510435.html

http://images.carsforsale.com/305027/234DE97A-B7FD-4AAA-A75E-33D8EE370585_3.jpg

http://images.carsforsale.com/305027/234DE97A-B7FD-4AAA-A75E-33D8EE370585_6.jpg

http://images.carsforsale.com/305027/234DE97A-B7FD-4AAA-A75E-33D8EE370585_7.jpg


And area above fake cladding screw doesn't appear to have dramatic difference like mine....:_thinking
http://images.carsforsale.com/305027/234DE97A-B7FD-4AAA-A75E-33D8EE370585_9.jpg

[Grif]

I honestly think it's a mind-trick. The darker color of the vehicle makes the cladding look much lighter than say a white VX with the same color faded cladding, but in comparison to white, it still looks somewhat dark. I highly doubt Isuzu offered different cladding colors.

This graphic may illustrate a point:

http://1dl.us/129238805936265.png

The gray areas are actually all the same color, its in the context of their surroundings that determine perceived differences.

The website I stole this from explains it thus:

"Note, that although the gray rectangles are all of equal luminance, the ones seen in the context with the dark stripes appear brighter than the ones seen in the context with the bright stripes. Note that this effect is opposite to what would be expected from a simple physiological explanation on the basis of simultaneous contrast (in that case the rectangles sharing the long borders with the dark stripes should appear brighter)."

http://www.news-world.us/pics/2009/02/28/20-incredible-optical-illusions/

[RamAirZ]

interesting. But I still stand by my idea that it's in our heads (whether it has anything to do with the color of the truck or not) and isuzu didn't have different colors.

[tom4bren]

I'm not sure but I think that's what he's saying too.:)

What I need someone to explain to me though is: why does the grey on black bars 3 & 4 look darker than the ones on 1, 2 & 5???

[vt_maverick]

It's an optical illusion Tom. Copy/paste his pic into PowerPoint or Paint, trim all the black and white sections out, and it becomes clear that they're the same shade/darkness. Pretty weird.

[tom4bren]

Sir, you take me seriously entirely too much.:)

Maybe my sense of humor is like the grey bars ... just an optical illusion.


BTW, you didn't really edit the photo to make sure the bars were really the same shade did you?

[VX KAT]

Those color bars are just insane! How crazy our brains are!....OK, I guess I should only speak for myself....:goof:

[VX KAT]

~I couldn't find any GatorBack at any of the Phoenix dealerships I called, but now after reading so many accounts of it peeling and scratching off, I don't think testing is really necessary now.

Forgot to mention...at least 3 of the Chevy dealers I contacted looking for GB, mentioned they carried TS-1 but had had a few customers complain the wipes had dried out in the package. So one d/c'd carrying the TS-1, the others kept very few in stock. So don't buy a large quantity.

[don moore]

so..is it black or dark grey???????? hmmmmm

[vt_maverick]

(11/23/2010) - Also applied a second coat of TS-1 the weekend before. I used only one pad the first go-round (about 5 weeks ago) and it started sprinkling as I was just starting the rear fenders and back door. I got B2B-style streaking about a week later, so I decided to give the cladding a good scrub and then use a second pad, this time working from the back to the front. All the panels look great now, and this stuff is much more impervious to dust and rain as B2B or that Meguiar's crap I tried a few months ago.

I think I can reasonably say that if you're not doing Gatorback, TS-1 is definitely what you need to be using. You're just throwing your money away by buying B2B.


(12/13/2010) - It's definitely a topical treatment, no matter what the packaging says, and I didn't do any surface prep other than a simple wash with a plastic-netted sponge. I did have streaking after my first application, but that's because it started sprinkling before I could finish. A good wash and second coat later and it looks great. (Btw, the TS-1 packaging doesn't mention any such elaborate surface prep process.)

A note on price: one of the guys in the AV forum quotes a price of something like $21/towel, but that's not accurate (at least as I understand what he means by "towel"). A box of 6 pads was $40 shipped, and it takes 2 to do all of our cladding in a nice thick coat. That's not exactly cheap, but if it lasts 2-3 months as advertised I figure you get nice looking cladding with minimal maintenance for about $50 a year.

Well it's been 4 months since I put on my first coat of TS-1, and 3 months since I followed up that first one pad application with a second one pad application (wasn't thick enough the first time around to resist streaking). Below are before and after pics from this weekend, the first two are before reapplying TS-1, the last three are after. You can see that there is some fading and slight streaking in the before pictures, but a ridiculously small amount for 3-4 months. Basically looks like the two week point after your last Back to Black treatment.

(Sorry for the low quality pics, my camera phone was having focus issues.)

Cladding 3 months after last TS-1 treatment:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3270/IMG00236-20110212-1258.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3270/IMG00235-20110212-1258.jpg

Cladding after most recent TS-1 treatment this weekend:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3277/IMG00243-20110213-1515.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3277/IMG00248-20110214-1253.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3277/IMG00249-20110214-1254.jpg

Where to Buy:
http://shop.armordillots1.com/

[circmand]

that cladding looks awesome after the most recent application. If that doesnt fade out to quick I'm a beleiver

[vt_maverick]

Hopefully not, you have to take into consideration that the snow/ice/salt we had back in January accelerated the fading process quite a bit. I'm interested to see how it lasts as the weather warms up and more rain settles in. But for you in AZ I have to think it would last a good while (assuming sun won't fade it, we'll have to wait until summer to judge that).

One more thing, my VX is my daily driver so it's outside at least 5 days a week.

[vt_maverick]

Btw, this stuff isn't exactly cheap (one pad is the same price as a bottle of Back to Black, about $6), but IMHO it's cheap enough to seriously consider putting it on as frequently as once a month during the summer to keep it nice and dark. Figure $40 including shipping for a 6 pad supply, 2 pads per application, maybe a total of 6 applications per year = $80 a year for amazing looking cladding. If you stick with the every 3 months model you're at about $53 per year.

There's something to be said for the fact that after awhile you could have just bought GatorBack for the same price. But this is certainly something to consider if you're wary of permanent treatments.

[VX KAT]

Some pics of my existing cladding compared to a brand new piece. Both are completely "nekkid" nothing whatsoever on them.
Now what color is that?? :laugho:
Pretty dramatic, huh?
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCF29181.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCF29211.JPG







With close up flash. Of course it turns out much lighter than reality, but still shows the incredible difference.
Dub, you still wanna stick to that theory 'bout the darks coming with lighter cladding? :p There's only one part number for each.....
...just sayin....:goof:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCF29231.JPG

[MSHardeman]

Sue, that is pretty dramatic. Something must have happened to your cladding because with such limited numbers of the VX being made I just can't believe that they would go through the trouble of making two shades of cladding. Of course I have been wrong before......but I was wrong about that.:bwgy:

[VX KAT]

Check out this vid, haven't had anybody try this before. (Luna you used the heat gun to fix the dent, but it didn't darken that spot did it??)
Kinda surprised, there's numerous videos showing this done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-dtbBzky-s

[atilla_the_fun]

VXKAT, what does the back of your cladding look like?

[circmand]

Some pics of my existing cladding compared to a brand new piece. Both are completely "nekkid" nothing whatsoever on them.
Now what color is that?? :laugho:
Pretty dramatic, huh?
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCF29181.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCF29211.JPG







With close up flash. Of course it turns out much lighter than reality, but still shows the incredible difference.
Dub, you still wanna stick to that theory 'bout the darks coming with lighter cladding? :p There's only one part number for each.....
...just sayin....:goof:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCF29231.JPG


is as clear as Black and gray

[ZEUS]

Check out this vid, haven't had anybody try this before. (Luna you used the heat gun to fix the dent, but it didn't darken that spot did it??)
Kinda surprised, there's numerous videos showing this done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-dtbBzky-s
Huh, that's interesting. I saw a comment that mentioned the dark color only lasted up to a year before fading again. I imagine if the plastic was treated after the heat gun trick it could last longer.

[VX KAT]

VXKAT, what does the back of your cladding look like?
Dang, didn't take any when Dub had the rear cladding off....:_brickwal

This is the BACK from a piece of the rear cladding...shows some stripes, definitely not the same texture as the front of the cladding. Color is kind in-between the two.
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCF2161.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCF2164.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC_4761.JPG

[rsteinmetz70112]

Do you have any pictures where the cladding that was not exposed to the environment? Maybe where a piece was covered by the adjacent piece? SOm eof the pictures appear to show there is some kind of coating on the cladding.

[Mile High VX]

Good chance to compare to that area under the hood that looks so much darker to the new piece.

[VX KAT]

Good chance to compare to that area under the hood that looks so much darker to the new piece.

New (or just about new) cladding vs. the unexposed area of cladding on my VX. Color is very very close.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCF2962.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSCF2954.JPG

[MSHardeman]

Sue, your cladding must have been coated, or recolored somehow, at some point in it's existence. Just the difference in the exposed vs. unexposed color as well as the fact that it looks like the torx screw in the above photo has been painted over too. My torx srews are black (or they were before I painted them silver) and not grey like yours seem to be. All of this could be why your Refinish/Restore didn't take to your cladding even though you did the surface prep correctly.:_confused

[VX KAT]

Sue, your cladding must have been coated, or recolored somehow, at some point in it's existence. Just the difference in the exposed vs. unexposed color as well as the fact that it looks like the torx screw in the above photo has been painted over too. My torx srews are black (or they were before I painted them silver) and not grey like yours seem to be. All of this could be why your Refinish/Restore didn't take to your cladding even though you did the surface prep correctly.:_confused

I think you're right! All my torx screws are solid gray all over (which I know i've commented on somewhere, since I didn't think sun exposure would cause them all to fade so uniformly... Didn't realize anybody's were different than that.

Found a few products online last week that are permanent DYES. I think Black Fusion is a dye also. Hadn't come across them before. Most are marketed to the car dealerships/used car lots for an easy quick refinish to the dry cladding. Mine came from a used lot. One comes in black AND gray....I'm kinda thinking maybe that's what's on my cladding (the gray). Since it never looks parched or chalky, and it has that very clear line of demarkation on the front....seems like something was applied, and NOT applied to that small horizontal section (like they missed a spot!) Hmmmm....:_thinking

[surf-life]

Sue, your cladding must have been coated, or recolored somehow, at some point in it's existence. Just the difference in the exposed vs. unexposed color as well as the fact that it looks like the torx screw in the above photo has been painted over too. My torx srews are black (or they were before I painted them silver) and not grey like yours seem to be. All of this could be why your Refinish/Restore didn't take to your cladding even though you did the surface prep correctly.:_confused

I dont know about that.You can clearly see a sharp fade line. The inside pieces of her cladding would have been silver or gray also. Unless when they painted the masked off perfectly in the motor bay.most likely they would have pulled the cladding and painted the complete piece.

[VX KAT]

I dont know about that.You can clearly see a sharp fade line. The inside pieces of her cladding would have been silver or gray also. Unless when they painted the masked off perfectly in the motor bay.most likely they would have pulled the cladding and painted the complete piece.

Pulling the cladding involves a lot of double stick tape etc...I think a dealership or used lot is way more likely to just rub on this dye stuff by hand, not invest the labor in removing the cladding. Than dark area is consistent with the OEM color so it either was masked off or missed.

Post Office shows package delivered yesterday :thumbup:

[Luna X]

I would definately have to throw my hat in the ring and say somewhere along the line. your cladding & screws got painted

In all actuallity, you're down to just a couple options if you want darker cladding...

1) basecoat/clearcoat
2) rhino lining

[Kfoss8]

Just tried the Meguirars Natural shine went over it three times it still just soaks in and fades away within an hour. Looking at doing the TS-1, But with another thought has anyone tried doing the Dupli-color Bed armor and just do the whole thing yourself with that ? Also my hood piece That looks like it has some type of rubber coating on it that is bubbleing up or is that just a Decal they put on there ?

[vt_maverick]

Yeah that Meguiar's product is a total waste of money. Don't know on the Dupli-color option, but it seems like it was discussed in the Line-X thread. Do a search for it, I think there was a conversation between one of our members and a Line-X rep regarding other do-it-yourself products like Dupli-color, Herculiner, etc.

If I find it first I'll post it.

[vt_maverick]

Here's a pic of Dupli-color on the hood insert, courtesy of Lizardmen3477's gallery:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/IMGP0626.JPG

[vt_maverick]

Here you go...

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=18965&highlight=herculiner&page=5

[vt_maverick]

Fast forward to 8:43 in this video that Mark (deermagnet) posted. Very interesting...

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/vids/1999vx.wmv

[Grif]

Fast forward to 8:43 in this video that Mark (deermagnet) posted. Very interesting...

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/vids/1999vx.wmv


Painting, cladding. Two words that do not belong in the same sentence unless they are referring to some magic paint product we have yet to become aware of which is highly unlikely.

Perhaps a dye, perhaps a treatment, but traditional body paint does not belong on VX cladding. IMHO.

[vt_maverick]

Telling that this video was probably made before a US-spec VX ever entered a shop.

[Riff Raff]

Painting, cladding. Two words that do not belong in the same sentence unless they are referring to some magic paint product we have yet to become aware of which is highly unlikely.

Perhaps a dye, perhaps a treatment, but traditional body paint does not belong on VX cladding. IMHO.

x2, agreed.

:bgwb:

[VXR]

303 needed more cure time

X2 a few months back I did the 303 thing but it rained a few days later and made zebra cladding.

Well I got lucky and applied a second coat just before we had 80+ days with no rain. A few days ago I drove through my first rainstorm and I am happy to report it still looks nice and dark.

So for whatever reason cure time is a must with 303:yesb:

[tom4bren]

Yeah that Meguiar's product is a total waste of money. Don't know on the Dupli-color option, but it seems like it was discussed in the Line-X thread. Do a search for it, I think there was a conversation between one of our members and a Line-X rep regarding other do-it-yourself products like Dupli-color, Herculiner, etc.

If I find it first I'll post it.

PLEASE also remember that if you try the Meguiar's product to be EXTREMELY careful not to get any on the paint. It WILL discolor your paint ... PERMANENTLY.

[RickOKC]

PLEASE also remember that if you try the Meguiar's product to be EXTREMELY careful not to get any on the paint. It WILL discolor your paint ... PERMANENTLY.Yikes, please elaborate!

I've used Meguiars MANY times through the years (knowing it would be very temporary) but never had any issues with discoloration. I suspect what you experienced will be an excellent reminder that all paint is not created equal and everything should be carefully tested first. (Kinda like how every time I wash my Ford when the temperature is above 80 degrees I have to polish out the water spots even though I immediately dry it off! :_mecker:)