Offroad Racing a VX? Some part suggestions...

[REDLYNER]

So this could go two ways, I could get a great list of upgrades to make a Vehicross my class champion, or you guys could tell me I am completely nuts for even thinking this would work. :bwgy:


We have an offroad racing series down here (ECORS) that is really picking up steam. This year there were 6 events with the hopes of growing to 8 next year. We just got back from Harlan, KY's race, which was a qualifier for King of the Hammers (biggest race in the US). Think high speed desert racing with rocks and mud. Average speeds around 30mph with max around 65mph.... over rocks and through the mud. :yesy:

We have 3 classes of rigs- A, B, and C.

I would be building an A class rig out of the Vehicross: No tunable shocks, maximum of 33"s with one locker, or 35"s with no locker, no power adders (turbos, S/Cs). Most A Class rigs are Jeep Cherokees, some Rodeos, and some Toyota trucks and truggies.

Races last up to 2 hours per class! So that is two solid hours of hammering on the VX offroad, at speed.

So with that info, I was thinking:

Torsion lift front
2"+ lift rear
33" M/Ts
Bushing upgrades
Airbumps (welded in)
Emulsion shocks w/resevoir (Fox maybe, perhaps Walker Evans)
Maybe an Aussie or an ARB


So with that knowledge, what else would you add to make this as bullet proof as possible?

The rig in question is a 2000 Ironman with 75,000 miles.


Thoughts?? Suggestions??

[Triathlete]

The other 'zu guys racing that series are on the planetisuzoo boards. Matt from indy4x is one of them and is a good source of info.
One ???
What shape is the VX in? If it is a beater I would say go for it. But since body damage is VERY probable don't destroy a good example of a rare machine...75k is fairly low miles.

[RamAirZ]

Check out Bansil's Amigo from the Planet:

http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?p=232519#232519

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_5hZcpx5mH0E/SSz_rWuD3lI/AAAAAAAACfk/FyoGFZjVqgQ/s800/IMG_2837.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_5hZcpx5mH0E/SS0CiEmKZMI/AAAAAAAAC9E/HfAbLBKAbl4/s800/IMG_3064.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u182/turtlemechanic/4-18-9race/lowrider2.jpg

I'd post this question over there and maybe PM him, he's built a few vehicles for that series and races it all the time, Joe Darlington over there does as well and a few others. You want to keep it as low as possible with the biggest tires possible, I'd say do some trimming, run 32's at the stock height or maybe add a 1" coil spacer, I'd do the Aussie up front myself, put that money toward other parts. I'd upgrade all the bushing, the sway bars included, you'd also be surprised as to what your stock shocks can handle but if you have the dough the Fox's would be awesome. I'd look into getting the Kilby skidplates or making your own. I've got an interesting design for tube fenders if your interested in going that far. Just a few suggestions

[ZEUS]

I think I would opt for hydraulic bump stops over the air which apparently fade during high speed dirt use but really don't have any experience with either. The links in the rear would need to be replaced with some beef. Skids for sure, sliders too. Trans cooler. Beefy tie rods. Braided brake lines.

I am sure they require a roll cage of some sort? The VX has low head room already... so exo?

[RamAirZ]

You could run the cage along the roofline where the oh-shiz handles are and have a "halo" up top, crossbar across the windshield and another one behind the drivers seat to tie it all in together and of course run the bars down through the dash to the floor. Be nice to tie into them through the firewall too and run a bar down to the front of the frame. I'd probably cut out the inner fenders too and build a guard for your alternator to keep as much mud/water out of it as possible.

[REDLYNER]

Joe Darlington over there does as well and a few others.
We raced against two of his Rodeos on Saturday- nice guy!

You want to keep it as low as possible with the biggest tires possible, I'd say do some trimming, run 32's at the stock height or maybe add a 1" coil spacer,
I am really wanting to run a bigger tire (33"s), but do agree about being low. So maybe more trimming?

I'd do the Aussie up front myself, put that money toward other parts.
Definitely want a locker.
Debating about the locker. I run ARBs in my TJ and love having them open on the street. Cost is about $500 more for the ARB, so I'll just have to see how that goes.

I'd upgrade all the bushing, the sway bars included, you'd also be surprised as to what your stock shocks can handle but if you have the dough the Fox's would be awesome.
That what I was thinking about the bushings. I know it comes with nice shocks, but the VX I was looking at is already at 75,000 miles, wouldn't that mean they wouldn't up to par for racing?

My theory is, the most abuse will happen on the attachments on the axles and the frame. So by upgrading shocks, bump stops, and air bumps (or maybe hydrolic) I think I will be limiting some of the major break points. :confused:

I'd look into getting the Kilby skidplates or making your own.
I will look into those!

I've got an interesting design for tube fenders if your interested in going that far. Just a few suggestions

Love to see them! I built several pieces for my wife's H3 and am always interested to see what other guys are creating






I think I would opt for hydraulic bump stops over the air which apparently fade during high speed dirt use but really don't have any experience with either. The links in the rear would need to be replaced with some beef. Skids for sure, sliders too. Trans cooler. Beefy tie rods. Braided brake lines.

I am sure they require a roll cage of some sort? The VX has low head room already... so exo?

So on top of my original list:

Rear end links
Skid plates
Sliders
Trans cooler
Tie rods
Brake lines


No roll cage required. However I was considering some form of Exo. The VX I am looking at unfortunately is mint condition, so it will get abused.


But overall, you guys think it won't blow up or completely fall apart during the race? I'm looking for a platform that no one is really running.

Thanks for the info!!

[RamAirZ]

As far as the aussie for the street, get yourself a set of manual hubs for the front and you won't have to worry about it ;) And no, the VX won't completely fall apart lol, remember, it won the Dakar Rally.

[Triathlete]

But overall, you guys think it won't blow up or completely fall apart during the race? I'm looking for a platform that no one is really running.

Thanks for the info!!

The VX has won its class in the Dakar (as stated) which is arguably the most brutal/challenging test of an off road vehicle (5-12 hours/day of all out for days on end) and has been bashed upon on the rocks by many members here.:yesy:

[ZEUS]

Check out this page from INDY4X (https://www.independent4x.com/merchantmanager/index.php?cPath=1_12_22_26)

You might want to perform some scheduled maintenance before throwing your 75,000 mile VX right into a trail of Hell. Then I would say it probably wouldn't fall apart! :)

Bart made this nice how-to (http://www.vehicross.info/modules.php?name=Content&file=viewarticle&id=63)

I also understand 3.2's and 3.5's benefit from a valve job more than some other motors but can't back that up. Speaking of 3.5 woes and worries (for some) I would also try to add something to the crankcase to monitor oil level and temp perhaps. Use a high quality oil - I recommend Royal Purple personally.
Check out some discussion on an electric_fan (http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=13520&highlight=electric+fan)

Since you want some go fast in your wheeling you really should gear down to compensate for the big heavy tires which also assists in your trans' survival - same holds true for go slow... go figure! Light weight forged rims should improve your times too.

Post some pics of this VX you want to thrash! :yesgray:

[RamAirZ]

4.56's should work on 32's just fine and be easy to find but if you can find some 4.77's go that route! And I wasn't even thinking about scheduled maintenance, figured that was a given lol

[ZEUS]

Sched-maint is rarely given enough!

[RamAirZ]

haha true

[Ldub]

So with that knowledge, what else would you add to make this as bullet proof as possible?


Thoughts?? Suggestions??

This won't make it bulletproof, but...:_thinking
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=134893&postcount=6

I have no personal experience with an accumulator setup, it looked like a good idea though...:_wrench:

[RamAirZ]

accumulators are nice, especially in drag vehicles, you can "pre-oil" them before cranking over that high compression engine. The only down side to it in this application would be that if you lost enough pressure (i.e. your oil level some how got really low) and you didn't notice RIGHT AWAY it would only give you an extra minute or so of safety. In the drag racing world that's plenty long seeing as most cars that run this type of setup are only running for about 8 seconds or less at full throttle (haven't seen too many of these on "slower" cars but a few people still run them for insurance, even then your talking like 11 seconds or faster). Now if you could make the reserve a bit bigger and run an LED "shift" light that's bright enough to really warn you whenever the system had to be activated, that would work. I'd just be worried that your flying around the track, it goes off and you don't realize it in time so it doesn't really help.

[ZEUS]

Here is what the front wheelwell looks like ahead of the door without the liner:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/Tires_005.jpg

Trimmed and hammered:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/Tires_009.jpg

B&F:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/Tires_010.jpg

Others have trimmed more of the cladding but I don't see it's needed if you keep your offset down.

[REDLYNER]

I haven't bought the Vehi yet. I am still deciding on which platform to go with- IE VX, or Cherokee, or 4Runner, or Ranger. So I am researching all of them.


With such a short wheelbase, I was already thinking about a wider stance. Tires are nearly half price for 17"s over 18"s, so I thought maybe some lightweight 17"s with a 3" backspacing would work.

Tires would be 33"s.


I currently rock crawl with my TJ, but don't want to beat it up they way the ECORS guys do. So I was looking for something that was solid from the factory that I could add a little muscle too (stronger suspension, steering, etc) and go race.

FYI- the TJ has been stretched 6.5", running 37"s, ARBs, etc, etc:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-12/915981/Flats%20July%204%20jeep.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-12/915981/Har%201.jpg

[Marlin]

You can also talk to Joe Darlington, if you were at ECORS, he is the 00 rodeo, him and Pete race the rodeos, I believe they are currentyl in first place in points for the series. He can tell you what to expect.

[RamAirZ]

Check out Bansil's Amigo from the Planet:

http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?p=232519#232519

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_5hZcpx5mH0E/SSz_rWuD3lI/AAAAAAAACfk/FyoGFZjVqgQ/s800/IMG_2837.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_5hZcpx5mH0E/SS0CiEmKZMI/AAAAAAAAC9E/HfAbLBKAbl4/s800/IMG_3064.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u182/turtlemechanic/4-18-9race/lowrider2.jpg

I'd post this question over there and maybe PM him, he's built a few vehicles for that series and races it all the time, Joe Darlington over there does as well and a few others. You want to keep it as low as possible with the biggest tires possible, I'd say do some trimming, run 32's at the stock height or maybe add a 1" coil spacer, I'd do the Aussie up front myself, put that money toward other parts. I'd upgrade all the bushing, the sway bars included, you'd also be surprised as to what your stock shocks can handle but if you have the dough the Fox's would be awesome. I'd look into getting the Kilby skidplates or making your own. I've got an interesting design for tube fenders if your interested in going that far. Just a few suggestions

:smilewink

[REDLYNER]

Still liking the idea of the Vehi over the other trucks being considered. I talked to the guy that is selling one by me and he said the check engine light is on due to something wrong with over filling the gas tank? Dealership quoted him $300 to fix. Anyone every heard of that?


So with a $2k mod budget (more later, just initial first round)-

I thought this list would be ok:

Torsion Lift Front $0.00
Rear Lift: $400.00
33"s: $800.00
Airbumps: $400.00
Emulsion Shocks: $450.00


Possibly sliders (Another $300 to $400).
Possibly exo-cage


Keeping in mind this is getting race prepped, what other initial mods should be up for major consideration? :confused:

[RamAirZ]

rear lift $400? what all is included in that price?

[REDLYNER]

rear lift $400? what all is included in that price?

It was the OME lift on Rocky Road's website. What am I missing? How much should it cost? I'm still researching....

[Ascinder]

I talked to the guy that is selling one by me and he said the check engine light is on due to something wrong with over filling the gas tank? Dealership quoted him $300 to fix. Anyone every heard of that?

Sounds like the charcoal canister in the evap system got saturated from the overfill and it's throwing a code. I think it mentions this somewhere in the workshop manual. Probably just replace the canister, or if you're offroading it only, then don't worry about it. BTW like your racelines, are the rims pretty light? I am on the fence between those and some heavier Hutchinson double locks.

[Ascinder]

Quote:Originally Posted by RamAirZ
rear lift $400? what all is included in that price?

It was the OME lift on Rocky Road's website. What am I missing? How much should it cost? I'm still researching....

HERE (http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=13470&highlight=lift) you go. The cheapest lift you can do is $60 and it's damn near impossible to break and adjustable to boot. You will need some coil spring compressors for the spring bucket route. I used harbor freight cheapies (http://www.harborfreight.com/macpherson-strut-spring-compressor-set-3980.html). I recommend lubing the threads of the spring jacks or they'll be non-adjustable in no time. They work great though. I was running 4-1/2" of lift and that was only because I ran out of adjustment on the torsion bars up front. You may want to look into differential drop brackets too to lessen the wear on your CV's from lifting too. The search function here is your friend.

[blacksambo]

Yes, the VX did win at Paris Dakar, but alas only a few early stages. It lost the the overall challenge due to Isuzu's stupidity. Said differently, they forgot to bring enough spare parts. Their competitors changed high wear items and the poor Vx was sent back out with heavily worn components and thus doomed to failure. It had to be towed home. Sad but true.

[REDLYNER]

BTW like your racelines, are the rims pretty light? I am on the fence between those and some heavier Hutchinson double locks.

I absolutely love the Racelines. Super light for a beadlock, but solid as a rock on the trail. I run 6 psi on the rocks and 20 psi on the street- no burping air that low and no vibrations at 20 psi.


It looks like if I went with the OME 912s and a torsion lift, I could squeeze in some heavy duty tie rods.

[SlowPro48]

Emulsion Shocks: $450.00


It's none of my business really, but I'm gonna run my mouth anyway. Hey - you asked! :bgwb:

For your intended application why in the world would you want to downgrade from the stock reservoir shocks to emulsion shocks? Or has someone already done away with the OEM Kayabas on "the rig in question"? For intense use such as racing I would think you'd be better off with reservoir shocks, not emulsion shocks. Emulsion would be OK for street or plodding along (rock crawling, etc.) but offroad racing's different. The suspension will be swinging from topped out to bottomed out continuously - every second for the entire race - lots of heat to dissipate! I'm betting emulsions would suffer major fade w/in 15 minutes.

If you wanted an upgrade from the stock piggybacks you could go to a remote reservoir but a lot of them have externally adjustable damping which would not be within the rules. The stock KYBs you have to take apart and play with the shim stack to adjust damping so they meet the rules.

"You gotta keep em separated."
The Offspring

[Ascinder]

Originally Posted by REDLYNER
Emulsion Shocks: $450.00

It's none of my business really, but I'm gonna run my mouth anyway. Hey - you asked!

For your intended application why in the world would you want to downgrade from the stock reservoir shocks to emulsion shocks? Or has someone already done away with the OEM Kayabas on "the rig in question"? For intense use such as racing I would think you'd be better off with reservoir shocks, not emulsion shocks. Emulsion would be OK for street or plodding along (rock crawling, etc.) but offroad racing's different. The suspension will be swinging from topped out to bottomed out continuously - every second for the entire race - lots of heat to dissipate! I'm betting emulsions would suffer major fade w/in 15 minutes.

If you wanted an upgrade from the stock piggybacks you could go to a remote reservoir but a lot of them have externally adjustable damping which would not be within the rules. The stock KYBs you have to take apart and play with the shim stack to adjust damping so they meet the rules.

X2 to that. For some quality cheap reservoir shocks you might try FOA shocks too. Their shocks are built to race and priced very reasonably. The only thing to worry about is that you'd have to convert the front mounts on the VX from a post mount to an eye mount, which is extremely easy.

2.0" Remote reservoir shock (http://http://f-o-a.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=17&zenid=56483f56e5240bc7f1c0c9fb235382fb)
2.5" Remote reservoir shock (http://http://f-o-a.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=25_27&products_id=4)

[REDLYNER]

Annnnnnnd oops. The whole time I was meaning res shocks, but kept saying emulsion. I was looking at Walker Evans racing shocks (emulsion) earlier, but the Fox 2.0's w/res is what I had in mind.

For price reasons, I was looking at the 2.0's vs the 2.5's.

http://exaltmotorsports.com/images/F51090




You never see VX's, but tonight, ironically enough I was waiting in the parking lot for my wife while she was grocery shopping and a VX parked right in front of me. :yesy:

[RamAirZ]

It's fate! You have to get one now!

[Ascinder]

Sounds like a sign to me. :bwgy:

[ZEUS]

Another one bitten...