Selector Shaft Seal: Transmission Leak

[nfpgasmask]

I just thought I would throw together a quick post about the Selector Shaft Seal. As our VXes get older, I'm sure more of us are going to see this. I've only found one specific thread about this so I figured I would add another for future reference.

So, there is a thick little rubber o-ring/seal on the driver's side (US) that is behind the transmission mode switch and the gear selector lever. I noticed a pretty bad leak in this area, and I assumed it was the pan gasket. It was time for tranny service anyhow, so I changed the fluid, filter and pan gasket. The leak persisted. I could see the leak forming on the dust shield that covers the mode switch. There was an obvious drip there, but it was still difficult to discern where the leak was coming from because fluid gets everywhere. So I checked the manual and it indicated that the "selector shaft seal" is a common leak point. I then called Merlin and got a new seal. That was like 8 months ago. Procrastinators unite! :rolleyes:

Anyway, I got to checking this out this weekend. Having never take apart this area of my VX, and with the manual being EXTREMELY vague as per usual, it was just a matter of figuring it out. As it turned out, it is quite easy to get at from under the VX, even though an exhaust pipe is annoyingly in the way. Basically, all you need to do it pull the cotter pin holding the lever arm and disconnect and pull it off from the selector shaft. Then you can get at the two little bolts (one barely visible on top) that hold the mode switch to the trans. It takes a little wiggling, a socket extension, a flashlight, and getting your ape hand stuck between the torsion bar and frame rail for about 5 minutes (no kidding, started to get worried for a minute) but then it comes off.

So now I have my mode switch hanging and I can see the rubber seal around the selector shaft. And because I was still worried that I might have a leak around the pan, I decided to let it sit like this overnight so I could be SURE the selector shaft was leaking and not the pan. I figured with all this stuff removed and the seal right there in front of me, I would see the fluid seep out right there and know for sure. But instead, nothing leaks. It's been 18 hours now and no more drips on the floor!! So the pan isn't leaking, which is great, and neither is the selector shaft seal, at the moment.

Its my guess that the seal only leaks when I am in a certain gear, most likely PARK. I would get a pretty big puddle of ATF right away before, and it would just keep dripping. Now that i have it all apart however, there is no leak. So, there must be some sort of pressure on this seal when in a certain gear that causes this leak. Anyway, I just found that interesting enough to post about. I'm going to change out the seal regardless, but all in all, a fairly easy job.

:thumbup: Bart

[rowhard]

Thanks Bart, will certainly file it away for when the time comes. Is it just a standard o-ring?

[nfpgasmask]

Thanks Bart, will certainly file it away for when the time comes. Is it just a standard o-ring?

Not really, its tapered, square sholdered and thick, and made from harder rubber than a normal o-ring. Part # 8-08644-709-0.

Bart

[Chopper]

and has the cure worked?

[Triathlete]

What did the seal cost? I may need one...I have a small leak in that area. Does it just pop out once you remove the above listed stuff?

[nfpgasmask]

Chop/Billy, I'll get back to you guys on your questions. I actually haven't finished yet. The original seal is still in there, and oddly enough, it isn't leaking right now. I just didn't feel like getting dirty again today, but I will probably finish it this week. I can't remember what the seal cost, but I know it was cheap, like less than $10. For some reason, $8 comes to mind but I really can't remember. Merlin knows for sure though. :)

Bart

[Triathlete]

Thanks for the info Bart. Keep us updated on the actual removal of the part.

[nfpgasmask]

UPDATE: Sorry for the delay. I slacked....

Anyway, the old seal was completely dry-rotted. There wasn't much left of it. I had to scrape out the bits with some various picks. Not fun. You kinda have to jam your head up under there to see the top of the shaft and get at the crumbly seal. Small flashlight needed. But, I got it out as best I could and then I looked at the new seal. Imagine a bowl with a hole in the bottom. That's what the new seal looks like. And given that my old seal was toast, I really had no idea what the orientation was supposed to be. So I called Merlin to verify.

According to Merlin, the 'inside of the bowl' goes TOWARDS the trans, while the 'bottom of the bowl' goes towards the Mode Switch. That's what I thought when I looked at it, but I had to verify with Merlin first. The manual is absolutely NO help.

So I got the seal back on and the Mode Switch and shifter connected again. I cleaned up everything and then I jacked up the tranny a bit and removed the cross member. I think the pan is still leaking, so I am going to let her sit for a few days and see if any more drips appear. With the cross member out of the way, I should be able to see exactly where the leak is coming from, but it better not leak at the selector shaft anymore!

Bart

[VX KAT]

Mine was leaking the first day I got it...made my heart sink....
took it to the "authorized Isuzu" dealership, they ID'd the problem quickly, ordered the "shift shaft seal" and had it repaired for a total of $107 including labor.....thought I was goin' faint when it turned out to be so cheap....when does that ever happen?!
Guess it's easy to get to like Bart said and therefore fast to change.

[johnnyapollo]

I currently have a very small leak - wondering if it's the same problem. Produces just enough ATF to "wet" the underside of the pan but no drips - really irritating....

[nfpgasmask]

thought I was goin' faint when it turned out to be so cheap.

Well, the part is literally like a $3 part. And quite honestly, the labor is nothing. Had I done this before, and had I not been messing around looking for other leaks, I could have had it apart, changed and back together in about 20 minutes. So it is pretty easy, for those who have this leak and want to fix it themselves.


I currently have a very small leak - wondering if it's the same problem. Produces just enough ATF to "wet" the underside of the pan but no drips - really irritating....

Well, being that I don't drive the VX daily anymore, I have time to let her sit so I can really see where the leaks are. I'm hoping that I don't have a pan leak as well, but I won't know until I let it sit for a big longer. With the seal leaking, the bottom of the pan is completely wet, and if you stick your fingers on top of the cross member, you will likely have a pool of ATF there. But if you are driving your VX every day, you will have lots of ATF blowing everywhere. I didn't notice this leak until I saw a drip forming on the bottom of the dust sheild that covers the mode switch.

Bart

[Triathlete]

"shift shaft seal"

Say that three times fast!:bgwo:

[RickOKC]

:( I bought a SSS from Merlin and had a shop replace it but was still getting fluid on my floor. I took it back, they confirmed it's definitely the source of the leak and cleaned it off / put it back in. It's still leaking so I guess it's my turn, next.

What's the likelihood that I got a bad seal? Maybe they installed it with the "bowl" pointing the wrong direction - or is it "too obvious" which way it goes?

All advice welcome! :yeso:

[Travelin2]

Rick, When I replaced mine I had a devil of a time getting the remains of the old seal out. The rubber part is bonded on to a steel ring and that steel I had touble with. In the process I put a little burr on the top off the shift shaft which I had to dress up with a bit file and some emery cloth. No leaks a year later. If your shop did something similar and didn't refurbish any marred spots, that could be your leak. Wish you luck.

[nfpgasmask]

Yeah, you gotta really get in there with a pick and clean out the old seal. The rubber cup is not exactly obvious with, which way it goes. I honestly don't remember myself. I did use a SSS installed I got on eBay as well to push it in.

My SSS is not leaking now, but my pan still is. :(

Bart

[RickOKC]

Thanks, guys. Sounds like the first step is to dig in and make sure 100% of the old seal was removed and the shift shaft isn't buggered up.

[nfpgasmask]

This is the tool for putting the seal back in and it helps to remove it too iirc.

http://www.matcotools.com/ProductImages/MST9648.jpg

I found mine on eBay for like $20 but Matco has it.

http://www.matcotools.com/Catalog/toolcatalog.jsp?cattype=T&cat=2238#

Bart

[RickOKC]

Bookmarked! Thank you!

Oh, and I forgot to mention - your information about which direction the seal goes is listed earlier in this thread. :)

[nfpgasmask]

Oh awesome. Glad I remembered then cause I sure don't now!!!! :laughing:

Bart

[Ebenezr]

Thanks for the discussion. I have the same problem with mine.

[nfpgasmask]

Yeah, it is kinda a pain in the butt to do.

Bart

[RickOKC]

Apparently, it can be a little tricky! My regular shop tried twice and made the leak worse. I finally took it to a dedicated transmission shop and was told the seal wasn't put in right (had a "wrinkle") and all of the old seal wasn't completely removed.

[nfpgasmask]

Mark is absolutely right, you need that tool to get the whole seal out!!

Bart

[Ldub]

Mark is absolutely right, you need that tool to get the whole seal out!!

Bart

30 bucks shipped from Amazon. (http://www.amazon.com/Schley-SCH96480-Transmission-Remover-Installer/dp/B000FN4A5I/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_1)

Be$t price I've found so far.

[Cobrajet]

Sounds like one of those tools we need to keep in the "member toolbox" to be passed around as required (like the modified wrench for the FPR (http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=12021).) I really doubt you'll be using more than once (unless your name is deermagnet!)

[VXorado]

I decided to cement it in with J-B Weld. There should be no way it can leak now. In theory, it should last for another ten years like this. It probably won't though. Then I'll have to Dremel all that stuff out and do it again.
Mark Griffin

Hey Mark, do you think JB weld on the old seal would stop the leak?

...let me back track. My seal started leaking after the body lift mainly from the auto-trans linkage being out of adjustment. Everything is fine now but the seal must have split and is now leaking.

I know JB weld probably isn't the best fix but i'm doing the 5-speed AR5 swap next summer and just want to limp the auto trans through the winter/spring. I definitely want to fix the leak to avoid any problems before next summer but it sounds like installing the new seal is a PITA.

Thoughts?

[deermagnet]

Hey Mark, do you think JB weld on the old seal would stop the leak?
The seal can leak from two spots. If it leaks around the shaft, then it can't be cemented 'cuz the shaft has to turn. If it leaks around the outer edge where the seal meets the cavity, then J-B Weld like I did should do the job. You'd have to get it really clean. You can't use carb cleaner or alcohol with J-B Weld. You have to clean and prep with acetone.

Mark

[VXorado]

The seal can leak from two spots. If it leaks around the shaft, then it can't be cemented 'cuz the shaft has to turn. If it leaks around the outer edge where the seal meets the cavity, then J-B Weld like I did should do the job. You'd have to get it really clean. You can't use carb cleaner or alcohol with J-B Weld. You have to clean and prep with acetone.

Mark

Great thanks, I'll pull the shift selector and see if can spot where the ATF is leaking before I commit to a new seal or JB weld.

[p_justin13]

how far is the seal supposed to go in? will it be all the way flush or stick out a ways once seated have gone through two now both seal for a few days and then work themselves loose again.. getting alittle old. lol

[JAMAS]

Looks like I am going to need to do this.

In preparation, is there anything I need to drain, or prep otherwise before I start taking the mode selector switch off and pulling the old seal with that nifty tool?

I would hate to get a mouth full of ATF;puke:

[nfpgasmask]

IIRC, you can do it without draining the ATF. But I think I did a full trans service when I did mine so I had the pan dropped.

Bart

[JAMAS]

IIRC, you can do it without draining the ATF. But I think I did a full trans service when I did mine so I had the pan dropped.

Bart

Thanks Bart.

hmmmm.....perhaps I should have my mechanic do it then?

I know its easy, but I dont have the setup for draining things.

Anyone else remember if its required to drain the atf first?

Bart - Any other tips before I get started? Are you still using that tool, or can I buy or borrow it from you? Otherwise, I can purchase it from amazon (its roughly $30)

[nfpgasmask]

Well, its buried in my garage somewhere, probably be faster if you just buy one. :)

Bart

[JAMAS]

No worries. Will do.

[VXorado]

Thanks Bart.

hmmmm.....perhaps I should have my mechanic do it then?

I know its easy, but I dont have the setup for draining things.

Anyone else remember if its required to drain the atf first?

Bart - Any other tips before I get started? Are you still using that tool, or can I buy or borrow it from you? Otherwise, I can purchase it from amazon (its roughly $30)

It's very easy and took me only 30 minutes. This was after I was quoted $550 from a trans shop and they claimed it was a 5 hr job and the exhaust had to be dropped... :eek: RIP OFF!!!! :laughing:

I did not drain the trans fluid when I replaced the seal.

[JAMAS]

It's very easy and took me only 30 minutes. This was after I was quoted $550 from a trans shop and they claimed it was a 5 hr job and the exhaust had to be dropped... :eek: RIP OFF!!!! :laughing:

I did not drain the trans fluid when I replaced the seal.

Awesome! I ordered the part ($5-ish) and the tool ($30-ish) so for $35 this could be wonderful......knock on wood.

Did you do any fluid flushing or anything after?

[VX KAT]

Awesome! I ordered the part ($5-ish) and the tool ($30-ish) so for $35 this could be wonderful......knock on wood.

Did you do any fluid flushing or anything after?

This was the very first repair I had on mine, the first month I owned it. Took it to the former Isuzu dealership and to my very big surprise, parts and labor was only $106! Very short job, nothing was drained, think I waited a little less than 2 hrs.

[Makocross]

It will probably take longer to jack it up and put it on jack stands. I tried using 50 years of wrenching tricks and nothing worked. Bought the special tool and it was a 5 minute job without dropping the pan. The tool also helps install the new one
Mike

[ojmagg]

I had my seal replaced by a shop. Now, I have to move the shifter around to get it to start. Also, I am having some intermttent hard shifts...

I'm going to take the VX back up to the shop...but, I'm wondering if anyone else has any thoughts on wtf they did to the car? Over/under filled the fluid?

[JAMAS]

I had my seal replaced by a shop. Now, I have to move the shifter around to get it to start. Also, I am having some intermttent hard shifts...

I'm going to take the VX back up to the shop...but, I'm wondering if anyone else has any thoughts on wtf they did to the car? Over/under filled the fluid?

I watched and asked questions as my skilled mechanic replaced my seal. At the end, he confirmed that all gears worked properly and that the VX only started in neutral and park...or just park, I cant remember. The point is that he checked these things and said that things can be out of alignment when the selector switch is put back on.

I would have your mechanic adjust it.

Or your mode selector switch could be going out as well.

[VXorado]

I had my seal replaced by a shop. Now, I have to move the shifter around to get it to start. Also, I am having some intermttent hard shifts...

I'm going to take the VX back up to the shop...but, I'm wondering if anyone else has any thoughts on wtf they did to the car? Over/under filled the fluid?

My guess is the trans linkage adjustment bolt was not adjust properly after they did the work. They didn't need to touch the linkage bolt but easily could have just assuming is was necessary. The linkage needs to be adjusted properly to get the trans positions correct between the console & mode selector switch.


Here's the pic of it.
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/106_2172.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21635)

[ojmagg]

Big thanks...I explained this to the trans guys...I think the tech understands...will let you know how it turns out.

[JAMAS]

My guess is the trans linkage adjustment bolt was not adjust properly after they did the work. They didn't need to touch the linkage bolt but easily could have just assuming is was necessary. The linkage needs to be adjusted properly to get the trans positions correct between the console & mode selector switch.


That's totally what I meant. Just without a good use of terminology to hand off to your mechanic. :)

[KILNA]

Anyone bought a tool and want to loan/sell it to me, pretty sure I'm having the same problem.

[JAMAS]

Anyone bought a tool and want to loan/sell it to me, pretty sure I'm having the same problem.

sorry for the delay in responding....

You are more than welcome to borrow mine per my offer below:
http://vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=24426

Let me know your address and I will get the cost for shipping to and from. You can then compare that to the cost for the tool and see if it makes sense to borrow or buy from where I bought from.

[VXorado]

sorry for the delay in responding....

You are more than welcome to borrow mine per my offer below:
http://vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=24426

Let me know your address and I will get the cost for shipping to and from. You can then compare that to the cost for the tool and see if it makes sense to borrow or buy from where I bought from.

What a guy!!! :thumbup:

[KILNA]

What a guy!!! :thumbup:

Indeed!

[Knigh7s]

Anyone by chance have a picture of what this seal looks like? Was at the local parts store and they had two different looking seals (one is thinner than the other) and want to make sure I pick up the correct one. I looked up the part number online and found several "generic" pictures but all looked different.

[ojmagg]

Here you go...

http://products.1800onlineautoparts.com/1998/Isuzu/Rodeo/1998-Isuzu-Rodeo-Corteco-Manual-Trans-Shift-Shaft-Seal.html#prettyPhoto/1/

[TheGanzman]

Resurrecting this thread, as I'm having the same issue myself now...:mad: Linky no worky above - seems like this should be a fairly "generic" and/or GM part - can anyone give me a P/N for the correct part that I can just go to my local auto parts store and order? The Isuzu part number would be my "fallback", since I'd prefer to just buy it locally and get it the next day. Guess I'll buy the tool off Amazon too...

[nfpgasmask]

Look here:

http://catalogs.marketparts.ru/isuzu/?st=50&l=bT09dXNhfHxjYz09Vlh8fHNuPT0yfHxhbXNpZD09M3x8Zm49 PTU2fHxuaT09MDE%3D

Bart

[Hades]

I noticed a leak pooling by the adapter pan that I hoped was just the gasket I didn't replace, nope that's fine and its this selector shaft seal. Ordered the parts, hope its as easy as you say it is!

[Makocross]

You can check for the leak by spraying with brake clean and then stuffing a paper towel around the selector above the top of the oil pan. Let it stay overnight. If it's dry it's not leaking there.
Mike

[Hades]

Well tried it today, but can't get the tool to insert on the seal. Tried turning it, pushing it, tapping it, and a combination of each. It just wont go on. Gonna button it back up since the sun is going down. Am I just a wimp?

[Hades]

Also managed to bugger the gear lever somehow...the gear selector falls all the way down to 2 without a button press and goes halfway into reverse from 2. Got it parked for now until I can figure it out. I wouldn't think I'd be able to have put it back together in a different gear since it would seem the rod matched the selector position. The selector shaft did change gears while loosening it though.

[Hades]

Got the seal off today and the new one in, the old seal was completely plastic and twice as long. All the pics I've seen of the seal online was a metal ring with a rubber seal on the inside. I'll post a picture showing the comparisons. The problem ended up being the tool, I had to file it down so it could actually insert the threads in and then it came out pretty easy. Haven't checked to see if the shifting is still messed up, I think I forgot a washer on the shaft connection (with the cotter pin) and it was allowing some play in the movement. Gotta do the axle fluids then I will check.

[Hades]

Metal/smaller one is the new one. Still don't know if my linkage has been fixed by putting it all back on again, as with my horrible luck I snapped the rear axle drain bolt putting it back on. Gotta try to extract it tomorrow and put fluid in.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/photo_15.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/photo_25.JPG