Education needed: IFS vs. Solid Axle

[SilverBullet75]

Hi,
In the past couple months, I've received the same question from 3 different people, asking: "Does it have a solid front axle?" When I replied, "No, it's Independent"... they ALL gave a disappointed reaction, even rolled their eyes.

I don't know much about off-road vehicles or their suspension advantages/disadvantages... could someone please explain their reaction to me?

[nocturnalVX]

One thing I know from personal experience is that IFS is better in ruts... I ended up towing out a RUBICON Wrangler because he got hung up bad on the ridge between the ruts. He promptly quit wheelin' with us out of embarrassment! :bwgy:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/501/80cnv0017.jpg
I love this pic!

[Ascinder]

.. I ended up towing out a RUBICON Wrangler because he got hung up bad on the ridge between the ruts. He promptly quit wheelin' with us out of embarrassment!

Then that guy doesn't belong in a wheeling environment and acted appropriately.


"Does it have a solid front axle?" When I replied, "No, it's Independent"... they ALL gave a disappointed reaction, even rolled their eyes.

Now, in answer to your question: LINK (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ifs+vs.+solid+axle)

But seriously, solid axles are usually stronger and generally able to turn sharper and articulate more. We are again talking about the typical setup found on the average vehicle. IFS is usually built lighter to be more responsive on the road and to improve efficiency by cutting out parasitic losses due to "excess" drivetrain weight found on solid axle setups. When you hit a bump with it, usually you only feel it on the side it hit. On a solid axle you tend to get "pushed over" more. Solid axles also put more unsprung weight down low which is good for stability in off camber situations likely to be found when wheeling. IFS also tends to be more complicated and also more maintenance intensive than your typical solid axle setup. With a solid axle there are less parts to break and they are more durable so you break them less to boot. When you are out in the middle of nowhere, that is a major consideration. Also there tends to be a lot of general knowledge and commonality on solid axle parts vs. IFS. You can find a dana 44, dana 60, or GM 14 bolt in just about any junkyard in america, and the parts for them in any store. With IFS, you never know what you'll need or where to get it unless you have the internet or a dealership handy.

[Triathlete]

If you've never been on the receiving end of the strap you're just not trying hard enough!:bwgy:
As far as solid axle vs. IFS....if you want to go fast (think Baja) a properly set IFS will trump solid axle. For hardcore rockcrawling a properly set up solid axle is prefered since it will flex far more . Of course there are exceptions to the rule.
As far as that rubicon...operator error!

[BigSwede]

generally able to turn sharper
Not sure about that...I can turn sharper than any of the Jeeps in my club.

Bottom line: Solid axles are desirable for strength and articulation in rock crawling.

But for most anything else, IFS rules. High speed desert and rally racers use IFS, which is really the type of vehicle the VX is emulating (IMO).

[Marlin]

Not sure about that...I can turn sharper than any of the Jeeps in my club.

Bottom line: Solid axles are desirable for strength and articulation in rock crawling.

But for most anything else, IFS rules. High speed desert and rally racers use IFS, which is really the type of vehicle the VX is emulating (IMO).

You are in a Jeep club?!:_crying:

J/K, I would be curious to see the new IFS kit pitted against a similar set up solid axle.
I did get to open the kit up in the 12 hours I was home before hitting the road again. VERY beefy. More to follow in separate thread.

As for IFS vs SAS. I watched a guy bust a half shaft in Moab last year, he had it swapped in less than 20 minutes. Parts were practically free. Try doing that with IFS...but as everyone mentioned, IFS generally handles much better on the street, unless its pitted against a very well designed SAS, which would require significant thought and planning on our truck. (Looking forward to seeing Ascinder's set up). Of course, I knew nothing of this stuff two years ago...it is amazing what you can learn in wheeling groups and simple internet searches)

Did you steal the Trail rated badge off that Rubi?:naughty:

[BigSwede]

You are in a Jeep club?!:_crying:
No, but there are 28 Jeeps in my and Mike Walter's Isuzu club...:bgwb:

[Ascinder]

Not sure about that...I can turn sharper than any of the Jeeps in my club.

That's why I was trying to keep my references general and not specific. Of course there are exceptions. Both are good systems and have their places, but from what I've heard, your typical yoke joint found in a steering axle is built beefier, can take more abuse, and therefore can turn more with less breakage overall vs. a typical CV setup designed primarily for onroad use.


J/K, I would be curious to see the new IFS kit pitted against a similar set up solid axle.
I did get to open the kit up in the 12 hours I was home before hitting the road again. VERY beefy. More to follow in separate thread.

That's what I want to see too. But I'd also like to see them both installed with locking differentials to boot. If we're going to see some true results, I think that should be a requirement. IFS is very capable in it's own right and the articulation kit makes it even better. I really do believe that IFS is probably the correct choice for the vast majority of people out there. A solid axle isn't a magic ticket to absolute offroad superiority and people who view things that way are just asking to be proven wrong. Solid axle, like anything else, has it's place in rigs where overall durability and ease of trail maintenance are paramount. Like Billy said there are exceptions to any rule. There are people running Baja with solid axles and people running rocks with IFS and both doing very well. It all boils down to preference and what pros and cons you're willing to live with. I'm going solid axle because I got tired of worrying about tearing boots and wanted a system that would be worry free from a breakage standpoint. There are also a lot more gearing options available to most solid axles and you don't have to feel like you're wheeling on borrowed time if you install a locker in one.

[AlaskaVX]

Next time you get the question say it has a solid rear axle, if you say "No, it has no solid axle", it kinda lumps you into the crossover type built vehicles like a Honda SUV or something.

I like the setup of IFS up front and solid rear especially for runs with a few mud pits (most of AK trails) as you have LOTS of clearance under an IFS setup up front so you are not dragging/pushing mud with 2 big ol' low hanging pumpkins underneath, while you still have the rear axle to articulate and keep the traction through the rocks.

[Triathlete]

Next time you get the question say it has a solid rear axle, if you say "No, it has no solid axle", it kinda lumps you into the crossover type built vehicles like a Honda SUV or something.

I like the setup of IFS up front and solid rear especially for runs with a few mud pits (most of AK trails) as you have LOTS of clearance under an IFS setup up front so you are not dragging/pushing mud with 2 big ol' low hanging pumpkins underneath, while you still have the rear axle to articulate and keep the traction through the rocks.

Except when 1 or more wheels are in the air!:bwgy:

[Marlin]

That's what I want to see too. But I'd also like to see them both installed with locking differentials to boot.

Well, I have a locker,and I beat mine up pretty good. I will get some before and after flex pics on a constant spot, like ramps or something.

[Triathlete]

IFS vs. Solid Axle in video...

You won't find any IFS vehicles that can flex like THIS (http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo150/Triathlete/flex%20and%20rol/?action=view&current=Default.mp4) (note front axle nearly verticle)

And you won't find to any Solid Axles doing THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH9uqIYjhEo)!!!!:bwgy:

[Ascinder]

I think unless you are in a complete race environment and trim, you could use a solid front axle at speed for most of what was in that video. You aren't going to be as competitive with a solid front vs. IFS, but if you aren't competing, I'd much rather abuse the solid axle vs. stock IFS, lol. My ultimate plan was to build up a rather light solid front axle with all the goodies-fabricated center section, forged knuckles and "C's", the RCV 60 axles(gun-drilled), a True Hi9 diff, etc. But that's so spendy, I thought I'd give myself a chance to finish the VX first, then hang ornaments on it:bwgy: With the lighter unsprung weight up front, your axle isn't fighting the high speed bumps as much as when it's a stock heavy old slug.

[Triathlete]

I think unless you are in a complete race environment and trim, you could use a solid front axle at speed for most of what was in that video. You aren't going to be as competitive with a solid front vs. IFS, but if you aren't competing, I'd much rather abuse the solid axle vs. stock IFS, lol. My ultimate plan was to build up a rather light solid front axle with all the goodies-fabricated center section, forged knuckles and "C's", the RCV 60 axles(gun-drilled), a True Hi9 diff, etc. But that's so spendy, I thought I'd give myself a chance to finish the VX first, then hang ornaments on it:bwgy: With the lighter unsprung weight up front, your axle isn't fighting the high speed bumps as much as when it's a stock heavy old slug.

MMmmmm! Spider 9's:drool2:

[SilverBullet75]

See, this is exactly why I posted the question.
Yes, I could have Googled, but THIS is the kind of response I was hoping for... A VX-Centric conversation!

Thanks guys, for the discussion and education.

Keep it up!
:)

[MSHardeman]

Don't know if anyone has seen the set-up from Atomic Axles, but they are really strange. Solid axle with high ground clearance at the pumpkin. Check the pics out here (scroll down to get to the pics):
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.atomicaxles.com/media/atomic_axles_raw_02.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D842149&usg=__B2z4ZvyjAIXCs3d61k0Cn-OWqzE=&h=480&w=640&sz=84&hl=en&start=1&sig2=sUDh7gg-hqRZswkWHah8uw&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=TtnQLBI6UK_dYM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Datomic%2Baxles%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26s a%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4DKUS_enUS308US308%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=cibQTKCQIML68AbT5JGuBg

Only issue is that they go for up to $14K (per set, I think).:eek:

[samneil2000]

The show Extreme 4x4 is setting up a 4 door Jeep with some of those right now. They are trying to do something different, so they put a blower on the Jeep v6 and bolted on a gear reduction behind the tranny. Then they added those crazy axles. Said they will run 37 inch tires but have the clearance at the chunk of 40s (I think).
Pretty cool. Different is usually cool...


Don't know if anyone has seen the set-up from Atomic Axles, but they are really strange. Solid axle with high ground clearance at the pumpkin. Check the pics out here (scroll down to get to the pics):
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.atomicaxles.com/media/atomic_axles_raw_02.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D842149&usg=__B2z4ZvyjAIXCs3d61k0Cn-OWqzE=&h=480&w=640&sz=84&hl=en&start=1&sig2=sUDh7gg-hqRZswkWHah8uw&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=TtnQLBI6UK_dYM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Datomic%2Baxles%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26s a%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4DKUS_enUS308US308%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=cibQTKCQIML68AbT5JGuBg

Only issue is that they go for up to $14K (per set, I think).:eek:

[Triathlete]

Those atomic axles have been around for a couple years now. They have recieved mixed reviews. I would much rather have the Spider 9's (http://www.spidertrax.com/products/spider-9;jsessionid=rQY1MQ8Yxt5Sn1GW6jlFGnfT2T1Qb5YC772NP vRCFnZsTpQhg2xJGG21bzL2nbs2CsT2wMG21HvwQgdnGZzyn5m pQTsH2L1Jkfys6nptlsQpGcL96YMpQNHsHpQ3SpZ5!-777758267). Stronger, nearly as much clearance and with there nuckle's have some of the most steering!

[Ascinder]

Yep. Those spider knuckles let you turn so much that your joints are actually putting more energy into breaking themselves than into rotating. No joke.

[Triathlete]

Most times when utilizing that much turn you wouldn't be in an extreme situation...just a tight turn on the trail. I could have used it on Elephant Hill several times!:bwgy:
But with the right joints they stay together nicely...if you're spending that kind of $$$ on an axle I doubt you'd be throwing crap joints in there.