need advice- our center bore is not 108mm

[djvx]

I searched all relative posts on this forum. No one has posted an exact size of our stock hub. I believe our stock wheels are hub centric because our rims slip right onto the bore ledge which is like 1/4" thick. It properly holds the wheel centered, and aids the lug bolts in supporting the vehicle.
I want to get new rims and I want them hub centric with proper sized center bores. I measured ours- they are about 4'' which calculates to 101.6mm. Can anyone verify my accuracy?
I think having the wheel slammed tight to the hub plus resting on the hub ridge is the proper way to have your wheels versus giant 108mm bore holes and trying to center the wheels with the lug bolt nuts.

[etlsport]

our hubs are 100mm every isuzu from 92 until present has a 100mm hub except the ascender.

I think you are going to have a very hard time finding a hub centric wheel to fit the vx. I have never seen another vehicle with the same hub size as ours. toyotas are 108.. chevys are 101.5

EDIT. just looked again and the H3 says it is 100mm.. with same bolt pattern too.. i wonder if its a misprint though, the colorado and canyon both say 100.5

nothing wrong with lug centric wheels, the only time you run into problems is if you have deep lug wells like my wheels do.. and even then just put the lugnut into the socket and then into the wheel and once the first one is tight the rest are easy.

[djvx]

:yes:Etlsport, It's a pleasure to hear from you, super poster in the community:bwgy:,
I just measured and they are 100mm. I now understand that some technical data on this site is innacurate. All it took was checking it myself which is always a good rule of thumb:wave: In the "post of all rims" thread the sizing is flat out wrong. It should say 100mm. The misinformation spreads like wildfire:flame: . I clearly understand that getting burned:flame2: with too small bore size has been an issue for some, and aftermarkets selling mostly 108mm has most of us saying 108mm is the right size. But it isnt.
Thanks for clearing it up:yesy:

[Riff Raff]

I agree 100% with Etlsport, and Eric is dead-on accurate with his analysis. Essentially, the majority of aftermarket wheels have the 108mm hub opening simply to "please the mass's". Aftermarket wheel manufacturer's want their wheels to fit as wide a variety of different makes/models as possible, so they can essentially make a sale (regardless of hub centric versus lug centric).

I've always said it from Day-1. The very best wheels for our VX's is the OEM 16x7 (1999) and the OEM 18x7 (2000/2001), simply because they fit perfectly with the proper offset/backspacing/hub-centric and help keep oversize tires nicely tucked inside the tightly cramped front wheel-wells of the VX with minimal rubbing issues (besides both styles of the OEM rims look fantastic, too). When you enter the realm of aftermarket wheels, the VX becomes very finicky of what fits and what doesn't fit.

:bgwb:

[Ascinder]

I don't know guys, I have to call BS on this. I had my wheels opened up to the 108 MM bore when I bought them based on info I had read on here. I checked them upon arrival with my vernier caliper and they were in fact 108 MM. They hung up and scratched and scraped and had to be fairly heavily persuaded into place over the AISIN hubs. Maybe 100 MM works on some, but I can say for fact that it would not have fit in my case. Bart(nfpgasmask) and Clint(CRNCNN) have both been present when I have installed/removed wheels. They were a very tight, almost interference fit. Maybe they aren't all the same.

[etlsport]

They hung up and scratched and scraped and had to be fairly heavily persuaded into place over the AISIN hubs.

Im thinking that is your problem.. did you run aisin hubs with factory wheels? I will measure my wheels tonight.. I have a set off two different vxs

I am going off the data found in two different wheel fitment guides even though the vx was not listed in either every single other isuzu excluding the ascinder was listed at 100mm. Also checked in an oem wheel ordering book which listed our factory wheels on 99s and 00-01s as an oem option for at least one other isuzu with a 100mm bore

[Triathlete]

My factory wheels (18's) fit over my asin hubs. So that is not an issue.

[Y33TREKker]

Maybe we're arguing semantics? Just because a wheel manufacturer says that the wheels they've manufactured with 108mm centerbores is the right fitment for a VX doesn't mean they're saying that's the centerbore for a VX. It's much easier for a manufacturer to make a lot of wheels with the same centerbore that will fit a variety of vehicles than it is to make each specific wheel specific to only a specific vehicle.

I'm thinking it depends more on the combination of vehicle and wheel as to whether it's hubcentic, lug-centric, etc, and that's something else a wheel manufacturer would provide further details on once they know the specific intended vehicle...not to mention any specific aftermarket modifications that have been made.

With lug-centric, the correct combination of wheel and lugnut is most important. With hub-centric, it's the combination of wheel and hub-centric ring (although the correct lugnut is also important there too). And if a person is so inclined, I imagine hub centric rings can be purchased for just about any combination of wheel and vehicle if the measurements are known.

[RamAirZ]

hhmm, if your worried about being hub centric just get some hub centric rings. You won't run into any problems if you don't use a hub centric wheel but if it bothers you then they sell rings that slip onto the factory hub just for that purpose.

http://www.amazon.com/108mm-100mm-Aluminum-Centric-Rings/dp/B002HQ1BOE

http://www.tulipcitywheels.com/tcwstore/index.php?l=product_detail&p=271

I ran the Borbet's and Snowflakes on my truck with Aisin hubs, never measured center bore but both of them were a nice tight fit. And on some of my previous trucks I had larger center-bore rims with no issues for long periods of time. One including a 98' GMC on swampers, so it was a heavy wheel/tire combo. If you use the correct shank lug nuts on whatever wheels you get you'll be fine.

edit: Y33TREKker beat me to it on the hub rings

[rowhard]

Insert two cents

since the hub is cast and not machined at the point of contact, think I would rather have that clearance between the wheel/hub. Different heat expansion rates, could cause the wheel to be bound up on the hub. The lugs are much truer to wheel center.

remove two cents

[RamAirZ]

They make an "abs" version of them too

[Marlin]

I think I am missing the point of this whole thread? Who cares if they are hub centric or lug centric? I beat the piss out of my truck with 108mm center bore wheels, never had a problem and I have some of the heaviest tires available. Lug centric is no problem.:bgwb: Never will be a problem. Superduty wheels are often lug centric as well. And if I am not mistaken, semi wheels are too.

[djvx]

hhmm, if your worried about being hub centric just get some hub centric rings. You won't run into any problems if you don't use a hub centric wheel but if it bothers you then they sell rings that slip onto the factory hub just for that purpose.

http://www.amazon.com/108mm-100mm-Aluminum-Centric-Rings/dp/B002HQ1BOE

http://www.tulipcitywheels.com/tcwstore/index.php?l=product_detail&p=271

I ran the Borbet's and Snowflakes on my truck with Aisin hubs, never measured center bore but both of them were a nice tight fit. And on some of my previous trucks I had larger center-bore rims with no issues for long periods of time. One including a 98' GMC on swampers, so it was a heavy wheel/tire combo. If you use the correct shank lug nuts on whatever wheels you get you'll be fine.

edit: Y33TREKker beat me to it on the hub rings
Thanks Ramz, I am thinking the rings may help solve this for me

[djvx]

I think I am missing the point of this whole thread? Who cares if they are hub centric or lug centric? I beat the piss out of my truck with 108mm center bore wheels, never had a problem and I have some of the heaviest tires available. Lug centric is no problem.:bgwb: Never will be a problem. Superduty wheels are often lug centric as well. And if I am not mistaken, semi wheels are too.

I care

[RamAirZ]

Glad I could help man!

[tom4bren]

I thought hub centric wheels went the way of the DoDo bird.

The only benefit that I've read for hub centric wheels is that they cut down on vibration. IMHO, that's total BS.

How can centering the wheel on a circle half the diameter cut down on vibration?

Hub centric was the way to go back in Grandpa's day because the technology just wasn't there to accurately and reliably drill out the lug holes on rims.

As a matter of fact, I believe that the hub is no longer even held to a tight enough tolerance during manufacture to get any of the benefit of using a hub centric rim. Sure, aftermarket companies do sell spacers to fill in any gap between the center bore and the hub ... made of soft plastic or aluminum. How is that gonna help with vibration?

[Marlin]

I thought hub centric wheels went the way of the DoDo bird.

The only benefit that I've read for hub centric wheels is that they cut down on vibration. IMHO, that's total BS.

How can centering the wheel on a circle half the diameter cut down on vibration?

Hub centric was the way to go back in Grandpa's day because the technology just wasn't there to accurately and reliably drill out the lug holes on rims.

As a matter of fact, I believe that the hub is no longer even held to a tight enough tolerance during manufacture to get any of the benefit of using a hub centric rim. Sure, aftermarket companies do sell spacers to fill in any gap between the center bore and the hub ... made of soft plastic or aluminum. How is that gonna help with vibration?


Thanks Tom, a much more elequent way of saying what I was thinking...

[tom4bren]

Thanks Tom, a much more elequent way of saying what I was thinking...

Ida know ... been told I think too much!!!:)

[etlsport]

With most wheels I sell, the general rule is cars come with hub centering rings while truck rims rarely do.. If I try to order rings for truck wheels, they are usually called hub spacers while cars are referred to as hubcentric rings. In any case, all of our wheels come with new lug nuts

as for the small hub compared to a large wheel.. I often wonder this but 95% of the wheels we balance are centered using a cone through the hub, not the lug holes. There are plates that can be used to center on lug nuts.. But they are only used on wheels that are at risk of getting scratched or have holes too small/too large for one of the centering cones (very rare)

[tom4bren]

I believe you Eric ... it just don't pass the WTF test.

For a hub centric rim to be functional, wouldn't the fit be so tight that you would almost need an axle puller to remove a rim?

[RamAirZ]

I think this argument has been going on from the dawn of time, and even wheel manufacturer's all have different takes on it (some even say that lug centric isn't a "real" term, that it's something people came up with and has been adopted in). In reality, right lug nuts for wheels, enough stud poking through and in good shape, your gonna be fine. But if you want that gap in wheel bore taken up, they make rings for that. I've talked to some high up GM tech advisors that say it's main purpose is centering the wheel, not really meant to hold weight. Shoot, most of these "hub centric" cars just have a tiny lip for the rim to sit on to center it. I truely believe that's it's main purpose. As far as the cone for balancing a wheel, I pretty sue they use the cone because it can be used on 95% of the wheels you balance rather than having to switch bolt pattern plates. I don't think it has anything to do with hub centric etc, it has everything to do with ease and adaptability in a work environment. Makes things cheaper when you only need one cone, also saves alot of time.

[tom4bren]

I care

Why?

There's been a lot of talk about the pro's & con's but you never stated what problem you are experiencing that started this whole discussion.

Or

Is "I care" just a Luke Skywalker quote.

[tom4bren]

I think this argument has been going on from the dawn of time, and even wheel manufacturer's all have different takes on it (some even say that lug centric isn't a "real" term, that it's something people came up with and has been adopted in). In reality, right lug nuts for wheels, enough stud poking through and in good shape, your gonna be fine. But if you want that gap in wheel bore taken up, they make rings for that. I've talked to some high up GM tech advisors that say it's main purpose is centering the wheel, not really meant to hold weight. Shoot, most of these "hub centric" cars just have a tiny lip for the rim to sit on to center it. I truely believe that's it's main purpose. As far as the cone for balancing a wheel, I pretty sue they use the cone because it can be used on 95% of the wheels you balance rather than having to switch bolt pattern plates. I don't think it has anything to do with hub centric etc, it has everything to do with ease and adaptability in a work environment. Makes things cheaper when you only need one cone, also saves alot of time.

'Zakly

Give that man a cupie doll

The switch from hub centric to lug centric probably wasn't based on performance issues ... manufacturing issues ... or tire shop workload issues. It was based on changing a tire on the side of the road.

I've had wheels that fit tight on the hub which were a royal PITA to change.

[Y33TREKker]

I was going to add it in my earlier post, but it seemed the question had already been addressed. Like Ramair said, hubcentric rings don't really "support" any weight after a wheel is mounted and a vehicle is rolling. If I understand their usage correctly, they are only used to get a wheel centered on a hub before the lugnuts are tightened. The weight of the wheel/vehicle is then "supported" by the overall contact patch provided between the lugnuts and the lugnut seats of the wheels.

Hubcentric rings are used more for cars because it's more important to get that type of wheel/tire combo centered due to their performance requirements. A low-profile tire mounted on a sports car rim has a higher potential of being used at higher speeds, so the overall centering of the wheel/tire combo will make a bigger difference as far as high-speed vibrations are concerned.

When a person starts talking about truck usage, it's going to be almost impossible to get that type of wheel/tire combo balanced to the same degree because of the types and sizes of wheels and tires used (usually, smaller rims with larger diameter tires). High performance low-profile tires are actually balanced/shaved as part of the manufacturing process, but that's not really necessary for larger sized, and lugged, truck tires because they simply aren't designed to wear or be used in the same way. For that usage, hub-centric balancing would be overkill.

As far as using cone shaped pieces on balancing machines, they're used for a combination of reasons. As RamAir also said, one cone-shaped tool can be used for a variety of different centerbores sizes, and, using simple geometry, the cone shape also aids in centering the wheel/tire combo more precisely before balancing is attempted.

[RamAirZ]

Why?

There's been a lot of talk about the pro's & con's but you never stated what problem you are experiencing that started this whole discussion.

Or

Is "I care" just a Luke Skywalker quote.

Well it really shouldn't matter why, if it's what he wants to do then it's his truck :yesgray:


'Zakly

Give that man a cupie doll

The switch from hub centric to lug centric probably wasn't based on performance issues ... manufacturing issues ... or tire shop workload issues. It was based on changing a tire on the side of the road.

I've had wheels that fit tight on the hub which were a royal PITA to change.

I wanna cupie doll! Ya the switch probably had everything to do with $$$$

[tom4bren]

Well it really shouldn't matter why, if it's what he wants to do then it's his truck :yesgray:

I care.:)

If he's got a vibration & some mechanic told him it's because he's running lug instead of hub centric rims then we may actually point him in the right direction instead of where he's headed.

[Y33TREKker]

I care.:)

If he's got a vibration & some mechanic told him it's because he's running lug instead of hub centric rims then we may actually point him in the right direction instead of where he's headed.
If he's wanting new rims, and he wants them to be hub-centric, he's still only going to have certain options.

First - he has to find the wheels he wants

Second - he has to determine what centerbores are available stock for those wheels.

Third - if the available centerbore(s) are not exact, he'd either have to determine whether the manufacturer will be willing to make a one-off set of wheels to his specs (in which case he'd be wise to go ahead and get one or two extras made at the same time - just in case), or, go back to the original plan of measuring hubs and wheels and ordering specific sized hub-centric rings.

In my opinion though, all that will still depend on which tires he plans to use with the new wheels. If it's going to be the Grabbers again (as displayed in his gallery), zero vibration is always going to be difficult to achieve regardless of rim choice.

[Riff Raff]

In my opinion though, all that will still depend on which tires he plans to use with the new wheels. If it's going to be the Grabbers again (as displayed in his gallery), zero vibration is always going to be difficult to achieve regardless of rim choice.

Huh??? What makes you say that??? What is wrong with the Grabber AT2's and is that what you have??? Please explain!!!:confused:

[etlsport]

Probably because all terrain tires don't balance well and will pretty much always be noisy when compared to an ht, st or apt tire

im with you on the WTF test tom.. take the lexus ls460 for example.. factory 19 inch (457.2 mm) wheels.. with a 60.1 mm center bore.. and they are balanced through the center opening... so any imperfections get multiplied 7-8 times by time they hit the outside of the wheel

imho (but have no way to verify) the reason that car wheels typically come with hub centric rings is because on a car, new rims often means low profile tires. in that case any vibration will be felt by the driver because there is very little tire sidewall to absorb it. of course this doesnt apply to guys who go with 22s or larger on their trucks

[Y33TREKker]

Huh??? What makes you say that??? What is wrong with the Grabber AT2's and is that what you have??? Please explain!!!:confused:

Probably because all terrain tires don't balance well and will pretty much always be noisy when compared to an ht, st or apt tire
:yesgray:


...of course this doesnt apply to guys who go with 22s or larger on their trucks
Unless they also mount an off-road or all-terrain sort of tire too.

[Riff Raff]

:yesgray:


Unless they also mount an off-road or all-terrain sort of tire too.

You fail. I also have the Grabber AT2 on my VX and can attest that they run super-true, are extremely quiet, and balance perfectly with minimal weights. Nice try, Popeye.

[Ldub]

You fail. I also have the Grabber AT2 on my VX and can attest that they run super-true, are extremely quiet, and balance perfectly with minimal weights. Nice try, Popeye.

And I used to work at a General dealership, & can attest to the fact that they had a higher failure (adjustment) rate than any other brand we sold...quit recommending crap tires olive oyl...:laughing:

[Marlin]

You fail. I also have the Grabber AT2 on my VX and can attest that they run super-true, are extremely quiet, and balance perfectly with minimal weights. Nice try, Popeye.

Mine balanced out fine, handled pretty good, but they were LOUD! My kevlars are much quieter than the AT2s were. I will say that the Kevlars handle 10 times better than the AT2s in the p-metric. I understand that the AT2s are half the weight, and only a 2 ply sidewall, where-as mine are a 6 ply sidewall and over 1" thick as well, lending to a much stiffer ride and better street handling. On the other hand, I can buy almost 3 AT2s for the price of one 34" kevlar.

I do think the new AT2 red letters look awesome!!!

Bang for the buck, the AT2s were good, for someone who is gonna rock crawl, I would not recommend them, at least not in the p-metric. Very thin sidewall, but if it was just a DD and a snow truck, I would have no problem with em. They performed great at Moab.

[Y33TREKker]

You fail. I also have the Grabber AT2 on my VX and can attest that they run super-true, are extremely quiet, and balance perfectly with minimal weights. Nice try, Popeye.
No need to get defensive. How can it be considered a fail when all I was saying is that larger off-road tires are by design not meant to be balance-able to the same degree as low-profile high-performance tires?

It seems you are simply taking my statements personally as calling into question your choice of tire when that isn't the case. If you're happy with your choice and have had good luck with the Grabbers, great, but that doesn't mean what I've said about off-road/large-lugged tires is incorrect.

I'm not even going to ask about the Popeye part. ;wtf;

[Riff Raff]

If it's going to be the Grabbers again (as displayed in his gallery), zero vibration is always going to be difficult to achieve regardless of rim choice.

Nope; fail #2, you deliberately singled-out the Grabber AT2 as illustrated by your original quote. 'Nuff said.

[VX KAT]

Nope; fail #2, you deliberately singled-out the Grabber AT2 as illustrated by your original quote. 'Nuff said.
:_wtf:...:_thinking...

[RamAirZ]

are you seriously arguing about this? Got butt hurt over tires? Come on guys, we aren't 6

[Y33TREKker]

Nope; fail #2, you deliberately singled-out the Grabber AT2 as illustrated by your original quote. 'Nuff said.

...In my opinion though, all that will still depend on which tires he plans to use with the new wheels. If it's going to be the Grabbers again (as displayed in his gallery), zero vibration is always going to be difficult to achieve regardless of rim choice.
As illustrated by my original quote, what I actually said was "Grabbers".

I can't believe you're getting this emotional over something like tire choice, but it's clear that it's clouding your interpretations of my comments.

What do you say we just drop it and let this thread get back on topic?

[Y33TREKker]

are you seriously arguing about this? Got butt hurt over tires? Come on guys, we aren't 6
And please don't put imply I'm doing the same thing when that's clearly not the case either.

[RamAirZ]

nope, guys was a general statement, not directed at any particular person.

[Riff Raff]

In my opinion though, all that will still depend on which tires he plans to use with the new wheels. If it's going to be the Grabbers again (as displayed in his gallery), zero vibration is always going to be difficult to achieve regardless of rim choice.

Nope, as originally depicted in your original statement-- you said Grabber's (as displayed in his (DJVX) gallery); which if you look in DJVX's gallery is the Grabber AT2. Consequently, you essentially referred the Grabber AT2 specifically. I'm just calling an Ace-n-Ace and a Spade-a-Spade. You made a generalized comment that the Grabber AT2 in an inferior tire that has a "vibration issue regardless of rim choice" and with which you have absolutely no personal experience with, and THAT is what I have an issue with. Then, you keep trying to back-pedal your way out in your subsequent postings with your double-talk, but all you end of doing is digging yourself a bigger hole (you're beginning to sound like Obama). Yes, let's drop the issue because it is you that has a clouded perception. Peace Out.

:bgwb:

[Y33TREKker]

Nope, as originally depicted...
This is ridiculous.

If it's just me with the clouded perception, then how are you explaining LDubs', Marlins', and VX Kats' responses to yourself?

Talk to me again when you reach China in that hole of yours.

[VX KAT]

Talk to me again when you reach China in that hole of yours.
Dig baby dig....
:laugho:

[RamAirZ]

Riff, do you need to retake reading comprehension? This is really retarded. He wasn't referring to Grabbers being inferior, he was using them as an example because all-terrain/mud-terrain and other offroad tires are GENERALLY more difficult to keep in balance etc than say your standard Camry tire. I quoted for truth here:



In my opinion though, all that will still depend on which tires he plans to use with the new wheels. If it's going to be the Grabbers again (as displayed in his gallery), zero vibration is always going to be difficult to achieve regardless of rim choice.


Huh??? What makes you say that??? What is wrong with the Grabber AT2's and is that what you have??? Please explain!!!:confused:





Probably because all terrain tires don't balance well and will pretty much always be noisy when compared to an ht, st or apt tire

:yesgray:




...of course this doesnt apply to guys who go with 22s or larger on their trucks



Unless they also mount an off-road or all-terrain sort of tire too.


From my reading, he's agreeing with etlsport's comments and not saying the Grabber in general. You really should take a chill pill, you sound like someone just pushed your kid down.

[Y33TREKker]

...He wasn't referring to Grabbers being inferior, he was using them as an example because all-terrain/mud-terrain and other offroad tires are GENERALLY more difficult to keep in balance etc than say your standard Camry tire. I quoted for truth here:...

From my reading, he's agreeing with etlsport's comments and not saying the Grabber in general.
I've already tried that.

No need to get defensive. How can it be considered a fail when all I was saying is that larger off-road tires are by design not meant to be balance-able to the same degree as low-profile high-performance tires?

It seems you are simply taking my statements personally as calling into question your choice of tire when that isn't the case. If you're happy with your choice and have had good luck with the Grabbers, great, but that doesn't mean what I've said about off-road/large-lugged tires is incorrect.
But thank you just the same. Maybe second time will be the charm?

And while not exactly the same, it also just occurred to me that years ago I DID run a set of General All-Terrains on a 4X4 I used to own.

Something I know for a fact is that the General All-Terrains I had on that 4X4 did not balance as well on those lug-centric wheels as the 18" General Sport Contact low-profile performance tires I currently have on the 18" hub-centric wheels on my car.

How's that for personal experience? :p Not to mention having a brother-in-law who works for General Tire and can get some pretty good discounts on tires. ;)

...You made a generalized comment that the Grabber AT2 in an inferior tire that has a "vibration issue regardless of rim choice" and with which you have absolutely no personal experience with, and THAT is what I have an issue with.
So it would seem there should now be no issue at all.

[Y33TREKker]

Double post - so deleted.

[djvx]

I thought hub centric wheels went the way of the DoDo bird.

The only benefit that I've read for hub centric wheels is that they cut down on vibration. IMHO, that's total BS.

How can centering the wheel on a circle half the diameter cut down on vibration?

Hub centric was the way to go back in Grandpa's day because the technology just wasn't there to accurately and reliably drill out the lug holes on rims.

As a matter of fact, I believe that the hub is no longer even held to a tight enough tolerance during manufacture to get any of the benefit of using a hub centric rim. Sure, aftermarket companies do sell spacers to fill in any gap between the center bore and the hub ... made of soft plastic or aluminum. How is that gonna help with vibration?
The VX is hub centric, and it isn't that old....yet. I would think Isuzu did it for a good reason. That's all.

[djvx]

Why?

There's been a lot of talk about the pro's & con's but you never stated what problem you are experiencing that started this whole discussion.

Or

Is "I care" just a Luke Skywalker quote.

I wanted to verify our specific bore size so I could look for wheels that have the same OEM center bore.
Thanks again for the input everyone, but.....I might just get some wheel adapters.I hear there a nice safe alternative :rotate: Uh oh...That could blow up this place :jump:

[tom4bren]

The VX is hub centric, and it isn't that old....yet. I would think Isuzu did it for a good reason. That's all.

Actually I don't think it is. If you have hub centric rims, you will NOT have conical lug nuts. I think the factory rims are just a relatively close fit to the hub which is not neccesarily hub centric. That's all I've got to say about that.

[jhigareda]

I have had metal hub centric rings made for me in the past to specific wheels.

[Y33TREKker]

...If you have hub centric rims, you will NOT have conical lug nuts.
I guess I'd have to know exactly what you mean by "conical", because the hubcentric wheels on my car use a lugnut/wheel-seat arrangement that incorporate a slanted seat angle that could be considered conical.

[etlsport]

our vx lugnuts are conical, they have a cone shape to them. take a 2004 ford F250 for example, they have lug nuts that are flat on the bottom, which means those wheels would be hub centric

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8407/nuts.gif

[LittleBeast]

Agreed ^

The only problem that larger than our 100mm bore presents is in the aligning process when you first are trying to get the first few lugs going on straight.

I had custom rims cut to my specs for the VX and I thought it was 108mm, but when I put them on I measured and found out that was WAY off, so it just means that it is harder for me to line up the first couple of lugs when reinstalling. Centerbore doesn't matter as long as the lug pattern is the same and the hubs fit, the lugs when tightened correctly (each one a little at a time) will align everything perfectly every time.

[djvx]

Well Little Beast is proof that the mis-information about our center bore being 108mm did affect someone. Granted the rims still worked out afterall. I think someone should change the tech info on the "Post of All Rims thread" to 100mm. With a note that 108mm is a proven workable sizing option.

[tom4bren]

I guess I'd have to know exactly what you mean by "conical", because the hubcentric wheels on my car use a lugnut/wheel-seat arrangement that incorporate a slanted seat angle that could be considered conical.

My point is this:

If your rim is centered by the hub AND by the lugs the two processes will work against each other unless VERY tight tolerences are held during manufacture.

If you were to purchase a true hub centric rim (assuming that our hub was designed for it, which I doubt) and installed it using lug nuts that are designed to also center the rim. The conical nuts would try to adjust what the hub has already aligned. One of two things will happen (prolly #2)

1. The hub or the centerbore of the rim will deform to allow the rim to center somewhere between where the hub had it & where the lugs want to put it. Congratulations, you've just violated the hub centric design that you wanted so badly.

2. The lug nuts won't tighten properly and will eventually vibrate loose. Nobody wins in that situation.

Like I said in an earlier post, in all likelihood our factory rims are lug centric & just happen to have a fairly tight fit to the hub but are not hub centric.