Oil consumption?

[mindaugas]

Sorry, I know this has been discussed MANY times before. I read through several threads, but still don't understand the issue.

Does the oil consumption effect all vx motors?
I just got one with 111k, since it's made it this far am I in the clear? I saw a lot of posts regarding motors dying young with 70k less miles.
What is the cause of the oil consumption? Is there a fix, and why no recall for such a widespread problem?

[mindaugas]

I just put 200 highway miles on it between 70-75mph. Dipstick looks ok, but from what I read I won't see anything until 1k miles. Dealer gave it an oil change as far as I know. Sorry, just a little worried and surprised I never ran across this when trolling the forums. May have been blind, I've wanted a VX for so long.

[PK]

Hi, and welcome to the forum.
Oil usage does appear to be a random thing, and the motor either suffers from it to some degree, or doesn't have the problem at all.

I am one of the lucky ones that uses no oil until I get up near the oil change period, then only a very small amount.
There are a lot of theories why - most likely the design of the piston and rings, and blocked drain holes in the ring grooves.

But there really is no concrete proof, nor any reason some are affected and others not.

I would suggest you keep an eye on your oil level each tank full of gas, or each week, until you have some confidence in the pattern your motor is showing.
Then adjust your oil checking to suit.
I check mine on the 1st of each month now, and can do so with complete confidence.

It's a small price to pay for having such a fun car to drive.

PK

[mindaugas]

Thanks PK, after even more reading that seems to be the case. I also have a 2000 Foxfire and apparently the 00 and 01 are less likely to have the problem. I'll keep an eye on it and first change will be mobil1. I traded a Legacy I traded in had 220k, plan on doubling that on the VX :) Blast to drive, and gorgeous!

[Anita]

There are many owners here who do not have the oil consumption issue.

People have pointed to the clogged EGR and to the PCV as culprits. Some believe that the issue rears up early in the breaking in period. Unchecked, it becomes a permanent issue for the life of the engine. Know that not all PCVs are created equal; cheaper ones may not be as efficient just because they are new (mechanic's 2 cents).

[VXjunky]

i talked to my porsche mechanic today about the oil consumption....he swore he'd only work on german cars, however the VX seems to have intrigued he so he's bent his rule and is taking on my VX...his thoughts are the oil consumption is related to the pcv valves...for what thats worth...AT ANY RATE...im going wqith the pcv valve change next oil change , and every other after that....

[VX KAT]

Welcome to the forum, you'll love your VX.
I compiled a list of threads on the issue. You've probably read all/most but here's the list anyway, all in one tidy place.
My '01 with 75k doesn't consume a drop until I hit the highway for about 8 hrs straight. I change my PCV at every oil change, just because it's cheap to do so. You may have also seen the thread from yesterday and today discussing the PCV valve brand, quality, problems, etc...

Here's some of the threads on oil consumption, engine failure, polls, experience, etc....feel free to add on any pertinent threads I didn't list. Makes for a good reference to keep the pertinent threads all in one post.

EDIT: These links didn't work...I've fixed them now....



http://vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=3756&highlight=ENGINE+FAILURE+POLL

http://vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=16854&highlight=ENGINE+FAILURE+POLL

http://vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=17228&highlight=engine+oil+poll

http://vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?p=166184#post166184

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=15156&highlight=axiom+DI

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=16136&highlight=axiom+DI

http://vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=14775&highlight=iamironman

Here's the thread from Iamironman...
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=16157&highlight=built+2000

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=15156&highlight=engine+swap+axiom

Several theories on Isuzu design defect in rings that causes oil consumption:
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=14548&highlight=brand+pcv+valve

[VXjunky]

thanks VX Kat...for all your insight and help

[Mile High VX]

with some interesting reading as well:

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=17228

[VXjunky]

FYI VXKat...yours and my VX are at the same mileage and same year .... may i ask when you intend on doing the timing belt and water pump?...john

[Mile High VX]

FYI VXKat...yours and my VX are at the same mileage and same year .... may i ask when you intend on doing the timing belt and water pump?...john

x2...I'm right there with you guys at 77K. I plan on doing mine at 100K like the maintenance schedule calls for.

[VX KAT]

FYI VXKat...yours and my VX are at the same mileage and same year .... may i ask when you intend on doing the timing belt and water pump?...john


x2...I'm right there with you guys at 77K. I plan on doing mine at 100K like the maintenance schedule calls for.

I was just looking at the book the other day, I don't consider mine extreme use, so I'd like to aim for 100k.

p.s. I fixed all the links in my post above. Earl the thread you attached is the same as my 3rd link.


p.s.s....Junky are you in LA? I lived in Long Beach for 15 yrs, but worked in Santa Monica & West LA.

Hey Junky...yours and mine are only 32 apart in manufacture!

[VXjunky]

was los angeles harbor / isuzu headquarters cerritos, the original point of entry for all the VX from Japan...if so damn, alot ended up on the east coast....im use to seeing maybe one or two a year out here in california on the LA freeways

[Anita]

I believe VX's came from the port at San Diego.

[TheGanzman]

Right about the time I'm ready to change the oil, or about 500 miles before, I need a quart; I change mine every 5K miles, running Mobil 1 10W/30. At 73K miles, my PCV valve is original to the vehicle - I never do a thing to it...

[mindaugas]

Thanks guy, this is great info. vxkat, THANK YOU for fixing the links. I saw those in several posts but they never worked. I have read most of them, but will look through them again. This is great advice guys. I think I'll change the oil early just so I know it's done right and with mobil1, along with the pcv.

What is EGR?

[Mile High VX]

What is EGR?


It's the Exhaust Gas Recirculation valve.

Here is a good thread including a picture of where it's located on our VX's.

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=12838&highlight=EGR

[IndianaVX]

I dont want to thread jack, but......
You might want to look up "seafoam" in the search. I and others use the spray to clan the egr stuff, and the regular seafoam added to oil to clean things up before going synthetic.
The search function is your friend.

[mindaugas]

Sorry, I have been doing a lot of searching, and saw the mention of seafoam once. I'm archiving these as well so I can go back to them later. Maybe I'll try and collected everything and make a "new to VX" thread for people like me.

[89Vette]

I don't know if this is posted in any of the links provided earlier in this thread. I got an answer on this problem/topic from Jerry, the Isuzu Guru. IIRC, he has been dealing with Isuzu Service and Training for 23yrs. And, he's been the recipient/trainer of Isuzu personnel at the Atlanta facility for a good portion of those years.

That said, his reply has to do with the ring construction. Because the original 3.2L engine was stroked to create the 3.5L motor used in the VX (and other Isuzus), it created a design problem. The wrist pin (which connects the rods to the pistons) was moved up very close to the bottom ring. 4 holes were drilling in the bottom (oil-scraper) ring for drain back. Depending on the driver's environment, oil-weight used, change-intervals, and PCV value operation, it can be easier to clog the holes on at least one of the cylinders. If that happens, oil does not drain back into the pan correctly which leads to oil starvation and engine failure.

I did not ask Jerry this but that makes me wonder if it's beneficial to run oil cleaner (carbon-tetra-chloride) thru the engine every 10-12k miles. Basically, this thins the oil and cleans deposits. You put in the crankcase and run it (at idle) for 5 mins before a change. The result should be a purging of any excess deposits/sludge in your motor.

OTOH, if you're like me, you don't go over 3k miles and drive off-road, you shouldn't have an issue. OTOH, if you don't know the history of the motor, cleaning it as described one paragraph up is somthing that can't hurt.

Seafoam is also something I've heard good things about that I'm considering trying. (OTOH, I've also heard (from good mechanics) that water injected into an intake will accomplish the same thing.) But, you should know that neither would do anything to clean the oiling-side of the motor. These types of products are designed to clean valves (aka topside).

[Ldub]

FWIW, I've used seafoam in my crank case every 3 - 4 oil changes for the last 2 - 3 yrs, & totally eliminated the pcv valve with an oil catch can system that breathers into the air box.

Not much decrease in oil consumption that I can see, maybe slightly during highway only driving.
Will know more when I get to Moab in the spring.

My guess is poorly designed oil return passages in the rings/pistons.

Just some stuff I read somewhere...:_thinking

[VX KAT]

I don't know if this is posted in any of the links provided earlier in this thread. I got an answer on this problem/topic from Jerry, the Isuzu Guru. IIRC, he has been dealing with Isuzu Service and Training for 23yrs. And, he's been the recipient/trainer of Isuzu personnel at the Atlanta facility for a good portion of those years.

That said, his reply has to do with the ring construction. Because the original 3.2L engine was stroked to create the 3.5L motor used in the VX (and other Isuzus), it created a design problem. The wrist pin (which connects the rods to the pistons) was moved up very close to the bottom ring. 4 holes were drilling in the bottom (oil-scraper) ring for drain back. Depending on the driver's environment, oil-weight used, change-intervals, and PCV value operation, it can be easier to clog the holes on at least one of the cylinders. If that happens, oil does not drain back into the pan correctly which leads to oil starvation and engine failure.

I did not ask Jerry this but that makes me wonder if it's beneficial to run oil cleaner (carbon-tetra-chloride) thru the engine every 10-12k miles. Basically, this thins the oil and cleans deposits. You put in the crankcase and run it (at idle) for 5 mins before a change. The result should be a purging of any excess deposits/sludge in your motor.

OTOH, if you're like me, you don't go over 3k miles and drive off-road, you shouldn't have an issue. OTOH, if you don't know the history of the motor, cleaning it as described one paragraph up is somthing that can't hurt.

Seafoam is also something I've heard good things about that I'm considering trying. (OTOH, I've also heard (from good mechanics) that water injected into an intake will accomplish the same thing.) But, you should know that neither would do anything to clean the oiling-side of the motor. These types of products are designed to clean valves (aka topside).

The last link in post #7 references Steve speaking to Jerry about it. See posts 22, 24 and 34.

[mindaugas]

thx 89Vette. I'll try those when the oil change comes around. At least from the dipstick the oil looks very clean. From vehicle history the car was on a lease, bought from auction by Elway's, then sold to a guy that lived in Henderson CO. He had it until I bought it. Judging by the condition, I think he took very good care of it. Or she for that matter. :)

[Buffy]

I'll chime in here with my experience. When I tore my motor down all the oil rings were collapsed inside the piston groove. Jerry Lemond and I spoke at great lengths concerning the issue. He advised me to check the new pistons and count how many oiling holes were in the oil ring groove. There were only four. This meant the pistons were the old design and not the newer modified design. The difference is the newer design has four additional holes drilled in them as close to the wrist pins as possible where the metal is thin. I had the machine shop do this modification. The next step in the process, per Jerry, was to break in the engine and start running 5W 40 synthetic diesel oil I think he suggested Rotella. I only have about 450 miles on my build at the moment so it is too early to tell how it will work out and (unfortunately) the skill level of the machine shop to build an Isuzu motor is becoming questionable. Jerry tells me that new crate motors from Isuzu have the modified pistons in the. If I had to doi it over again I would have Jerry get me a crate engine. The other thing to not is Isuzu does not sell oversized pistons and rings. I had to go with the aftermarket to get pistons which was one of the few non-OEM parts I had to purchase.

And FWIW, I have had issues with other vehicles sucking oil into the intake. I had a Z06 that would do that if you got the RPMs up (though I would NEVER do that :smilewink). Several companies created oil catch can systems that would prevent the oil from getting into the intake. The more often you did (ahem) spirited driving the more often you had to empty the catch can.

Just my 2 cents worth to the discussion.

[DogBoneVX]

I'll chime in here with my experience. When I tore my motor down all the oil rings were collapsed inside the piston groove. Jerry Lemond and I spoke at great lengths concerning the issue. He advised me to check the new pistons and count how many oiling holes were in the oil ring groove. There were only four. This meant the pistons were the old design and not the newer modified design. The difference is the newer design has four additional holes drilled in them as close to the wrist pins as possible where the metal is thin. I had the machine shop do this modification. The next step in the process, per Jerry, was to break in the engine and start running 5W 40 synthetic diesel oil I think he suggested Rotella. I only have about 450 miles on my build at the moment so it is too early to tell how it will work out and (unfortunately) the skill level of the machine shop to build an Isuzu motor is becoming questionable. Jerry tells me that new crate motors from Isuzu have the modified pistons in the. If I had to doi it over again I would have Jerry get me a crate engine. The other thing to not is Isuzu does not sell oversized pistons and rings. I had to go with the aftermarket to get pistons which was one of the few non-OEM parts I had to purchase.

And FWIW, I have had issues with other vehicles sucking oil into the intake. I had a Z06 that would do that if you got the RPMs up (though I would NEVER do that :smilewink). Several companies created oil catch can systems that would prevent the oil from getting into the intake. The more often you did (ahem) spirited driving the more often you had to empty the catch can.

Just my 2 cents worth to the discussion.


That makes a lot of sense.

[Mile High VX]

And FWIW, I have had issues with other vehicles sucking oil into the intake. I had a Z06 that would do that if you got the RPMs up (though I would NEVER do that :smilewink). Several companies created oil catch can systems that would prevent the oil from getting into the intake. The more often you did (ahem) spirited driving the more often you had to empty the catch can.

Just my 2 cents worth to the discussion.

And so how many hours of you life has gone to performing this task...:bwgy::smilewink:bgwo::bgwb:

[Buffy]

And so how many hours of you life has gone to performing this task...:bwgy::smilewink:bgwo::bgwb:

A couple.... or so.... maybe..... :_steering