Rearended (yeah another)

[Bob Barker]

How likely is it for my VX to be totaled after a rear end collision? The guys kia that nose dived into my tow hitch is crushed and will be scrap metal for sure, my truck has damaged plastic cladding on the rear bumper and spare tire sections, the tow hitch is bent down at about a *45 angle and is bolted to the frame. The doors don't close smoothly now, they have a slight "upward hitch" when shutting...

Is it likely to be totaled or repaired? I know that's a hard one to answer, but assuming it has frame damage in the back with the tow hitch attached at the frame and the doors not closing properly.

[VX KAT]

Man, there must be some bad juju going around. Glad you're OK and sorry to hear this.

Recall reading on the "superbumper.com" site a tow hitch mounted to the frame can actually cause frame damage because it transmits all the force right to it. Of course, this is a site selling the superbumper which they claim can absorb some of the impact and reduce chance of damage to car, so don't know how true it is,...........but makes me wonder if that's what might be found on yours.

Remember there's a new rear bumper that's been listed here and ebay in case they say they can't find one (or don't want to try too hard).

Hope it works out OK for you!

[Bob Barker]

Thanks for that info about the tow hitch absorbtion. If they don't want to dig into checking the frame until I'm satisfied I'll try to point the shop in that site's direction.

[VXjunky]

if its any confort...most of the VX i see while perusing the salvage yard sites, day in day out.... have "FRONT END" damage....so if worse comes to worse..1+1=1 good'n.....and second thought, if insurance does total it...good chance you can buy back the totaled, what they now consider, carcass, for cheap....sorta BOGO sale

[Grif]

For what its worth, as I understand it our VX's use traditional body-on-frame construction as opposed to more modern unibody construction. This means that in the case of frame damage, the body can be removed, the frame straightened, and the body panels put back on more or less intact. This makes the dreaded "frame damage" diagnoses much less of a terminal condition.

Higher end collision shops have computerized frame machines to do just that kind of job.

[Mile High VX]

Sorry to hear about the misfortune Bob and hope all goes well with the repairs and the insurance company.

If they end up totaling the VX and you don't buy it back and fix it on your own, you might consider taking any mods or add-ons, like a roof rack, off and selling them on the forum.

When I had my '69 Camaro get totaled the insurance company only said it needed to roll when they came and got it from in front of my house. Needless to say they pretty much got a rollling chasis and it wasn't rollini' on my mag wheels and Mickey Thompson N50's....:smilewink:bgwo::bgwb::bwgy:

[Tookie]

Dang. Must be somthin goin around. I just got back the butchers bill from insurance, Got a check for almost 1300 for repairs. Which is gonna go to myself so I fixit lol. Hopefully won't turn out bad. Good luck though man! I think I am definitely going t obe picking up one of the superbumper things too.

[vt_maverick]

Recall reading on the "superbumper.com" site a tow hitch mounted to the frame can actually cause frame damage because it transmits all the force right to it. Of course, this is a site selling the superbumper which they claim can absorb some of the impact and reduce chance of damage to car, so don't know how true it is,...........but makes me wonder if that's what might be found on yours.

I recall Tone posting a similar comment in a thread years ago (seriously I'm running out of threads to read ;)) when comparing the pros/cons of his hitch vs. the Dylan/Curt style hitches. I believe he said that Dylan/Curt hitches bolt directly to the frame rails, and thus were more likely to cause frame torsion/twisting. His hitch would only affect the bumper/cross member, but the trade-off was that his hitch didn't have as high a tongue weight rating.

[Bob Barker]

Yeah bolting to the frame sux. I like the hitch, and considering my wife was in the car I'm glad it was there to take the hit. but sucks that it may damage the frame...

[circmand]

I recall Tone posting a similar comment in a thread years ago (seriously I'm running out of threads to read ;)) when comparing the pros/cons of his hitch vs. the Dylan/Curt style hitches. I believe he said that Dylan/Curt hitches bolt directly to the frame rails, and thus were more likely to cause frame torsion/twisting. His hitch would only affect the bumper/cross member, but the trade-off was that his hitch didn't have as high a tongue weight rating.

If your tow hitch hooks to the frame force will be sent to the frame. This is the way it is designed as the frame can take more force before bending and it takes force away from the accident that would be applied to your body in the wreck

If the tow hook hooks to the bumper It will handle a lot less weight, less damage to the frame but the force has to go somewhere so it will be applied to your bumper (hooked to frame) and the rear door as well as your body.

Given the choice frame damage is better than being permanently handicapped. Remeber the tow hook will not absorb any force and physics proves it has to go somewhere.

[vt_maverick]

Still I think I'd rather be twisting one cross member with the Tone hitch than all the cross members with the rail-bolted hitch.

[tom4bren]

... in the case of frame damage, the body can be removed, the frame straightened, and the body panels put back on more or less intact.

Actually, they usually don't even need to remove the body panels unless the frame is severely damaged.

When they were straightening the one frame member on mine that was bent after I parked it on top of a van, they didn't have to remove any of the body panels. It even came back into perfect alignment after the repair (they said that was a VERY good indication of the process).

BTW, sorry to hear of your accident. Let us know if we can help.

[VX KAT]

Thought I'd share some more info I got from the president of Superbumper.com concerning the energy forces when the hitch is hit in a rear-end collision.


Sue:

Sorry to hear about the accident and thanks for the tip on the web site…it is getting a little too cluttered.

Anyway, getting back to your question…Receiver hitches are bolted directly to the frame…unless it is a unibody construction vehicle. I believe your vehicle is built on a frame.

When you get hit from the rear, a lot of the crash energy is transferred directly to the frame via the receiver hitch (if the vehicle has one) and ultimately to the occupants. I say “a lot” because some of this crash energy may be absorbed by the bumper, bumper cover, end gate, etc. – unless it’s a direct hit on the hitch. Then all the force is transferred by the receiver hitch.

We have a video of the Chevrolet Trailblazer from 2002 that was crashed into a pole at 5 mph by the Insurance Institute For Highway Safety. The result was NO damage because the receiver hitch hit the pole directly. All of the force from this collision would have been transferred directly to the occupants because none of the vehicle’s other parts absorbed any of the crash energy. This is a typical example. If your receiver hitch protrudes out beyond the bumper (like most pickup trucks for instance) chances are all the impact energy will end up going through the frame to the occupants because there’s nothing being absorbed…by your vehicle. There is some energy being absorbed in a two vehicle collision but most of it is being done by the bullet vehicle as the front end crushes. A receiver hitch completely changes the crash dynamics. That’s why the IIHS removes all receiver hitches now before they do any rear bumper crash testing.

Most auto manufacturers do not want any “global buckling of the frame” at speeds less than 35 mph so this leaves out the so called “crumple zones” unless you get above that speed. And of course, a lot depends on the mass of the vehicle that hits you. It might only take 15 mph if you get hit by a Hummer.

Force goes strictly but the Kinetic Energy formula: ½ MV squared (where the velocity is squared). If you double the mass you’ll double the force. But if you double the speed you quadruple the force. In other words a 4 mph impact will generate 4 times more force than a 2 mph impact on the same vehicle. So if you hit that pole at 2 mph and then decide to try 4 mph you’re going to experience 4 times the amount of force.

As an occupant dealing with a rear end collision you’re going to experience an instant acceleration or “change in Delta V” of 2.5 times that of the bullet vehicle. So if you’re hit at just 5 mph from the rear, you will accelerate to 12 – 13 mph – certainly enough to hurt people. That’s why it is really hard for the occupants of the target vehicle to tell how hard they were hit and most “crash experts” rarely take into consideration the receiver hitch because they hide damage.

I would say if the hitch is not bent downward then you were probably hit at a speed less than 10 mph. If the hitch is bent downward then it’s definitely above 10 mph. If the frame has been tweeked so that the doors have a hard time opening then you’re looking at 20 mph or more. Just a general observation. But if you’ve been hit above 10 mph the least of your worries should be the vehicle.

Insurance companies will argue that unless your vehicle is damaged there’s no way you could have been hurt. Wrong. The video mentioned shows how a vehicle can absorb a huge amount of force and not show it.

Anyway, there are a lot of variables when dealing with rear end collisions but the force has to go somewhere and it goes directly to the occupants if there’s a direct hit on the hitch.

Jeff

P.S. 48% of the people that hit you in the rear are not slowing down and will hit you directly. Of the other 52%, about ½ will brake - and then hit you. Or they’ll brake and swerve to try to avoid the collision…but they still hit you. You just happened to get one that “woke up” at the last second and clipped your fender. But about 75% of the time they hit you directly. You just got one of those 25%.

Feel free to put this on your site…video too.

[Ldub]

Here's my thoughts on the subject...:rolleyesg

Bob, sorry to hear the news...:(

I always leave 2-3 car lengths in front of me when stopped in traffic...drives other people NUTS!
But about 2 years ago, I was stopped in traffic & saw a Mercedes in my rear view coming up on my precious rear end WAY too fast.
At the last second she must have looked up, & locked up her brakes...:eekgray:

As she closed in on my sweet back side, I let Suzy roll ahead about 15 feet...:yesgray:

No contact was made, & for some odd reason, she seemed a little timid about catching up with me in traffic...:_confused

[vt_maverick]

I can understand leaving room when you're stopped, what drives me nuts is when people slam on their brakes to maintain that many car lengths when traffic comes to a sudden stop. :mad:

[Bob Barker]

Appointment is set at the collision center for Monday morning. VXKat thanks so much for that info. I'll pass it on to the repair shop when I take it in. I love the truck and hope to keep it, but have no desires for a "tweaked" frame vehicle, especially if auto reports will show it had to have the frame straightened. That would kill resale value if I ever decided on it. I'll keep everyone updated.

Oh yeah, both passengers and myself are fine. The hitch is pointing down about 30*'s from original angle and is cracked at the bolting point, as well as the gas tank cover and the rear door sits unevenly. I'm getting bummed talking about it.

[Ebenezr]

Sorry to hear this Bob. http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/cto/2135389837.html
Someone said 1 plus equals 1 good one. If you have the cash and time then here is one that has been listed for more than 3 weeks.

[VX KAT]

Sorry to hear this Bob. http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/cto/2135389837.html
Someone said 1 plus equals 1 good one. If you have the cash and time then here is one that has been listed for more than 3 weeks.

there you go again, tempting me with this dang purple one!!!!
My hubby is goin' wanna, um, um...hurt somebody if ya'll keep posting this one!

There WAS a time when I wouldn't have even considered owning a purple car....saw enough of them in LA when I lived there....but now...a VX....um, yes please! And yes, as a matter of fact I am nuts....:thumbup:

[MsConduct]

KAT - I think you would probably look good in purple...:p:yesgray:

[VXjunky]

_______EEK !____Blasphemy...do the initials after the price on that ad mean NFM...NOT FOR ME

[vt_maverick]

Sorry to hear this Bob. http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/cto/2135389837.html
Someone said 1 plus equals 1 good one. If you have the cash and time then here is one that has been listed for more than 3 weeks.

Actually that one has been listed for several months if not more than a year. Hard to say whether he's that committed to $3K or that unable to find a buyer (the latter seems possible given the paint job).

Sue, maybe you should call him and offer $1500? If it needs engine work and is an off-the-wall color, maybe he'd give it up for a big discount.

[Ebenezr]

I didn't think anyone was pay'n attention to that ad. Well if someone would like to go half with me I'll take the engine trans and drive shaft and they can have the body...

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

Other than the laws of physics creating various outcomes in damage....like how fast the guy hits you...how far he skidded before hitting you...weight of the vehicle hitting you...ride height..etc....etc...

I was impressed with Joe's use of the rhino step plug in bumper bar for the rear hitch. (the VX owner who does the calenders)

I have the D'Lan hitch (that was how it was spelled when I bought it) as does he and his experience was he was rear-ended I believe twice and only had to throw away the Rhino bumper bar and replace it for like $100. I know he made mention of a Mustang GT slamming into his rear and the only damage to his VX was the aforementioned Rhino bar. So I bought one..plus I like the look as it complements the Safari bar I have on the front-end and the rockslider bars on the sides.

I know it isn't a cure-all for rear-end collisions but I thought it can only help after reading Joe's posts.

[Bob Barker]

Insurance people just called, said repairs were a little over 2k, with slight damage to the rear of the frame where the hitch mounts, they would repair that, reset the door hinges, replace both bumper and rear door plastics, the license plate frame bracket, gas tank shield and a new hitch of course.

Should be done by Thursday. I hope so, we have a camping trip planned, and the rental won't cut it in the woods!

[vt_maverick]

They got all the cladding that quick?

[Bob Barker]

They don't have it that I know of. I was just told they would have it back together by Thrusday or Friday at the latest. I am hoping they don't just try to repair the damaged stuff...

[Bob Barker]

Repair people called today with an update. The Curt hitch isn't going to be in until next Wednesday, and the fuel tank shield is on backorder UNTIL FREAKING APRIL! I laughed at the guy when he said that and he told me I could take the truck back until the piece comes in and that it would be fully functional with the crack in it. So I laughed some more...

I don't believe I'll be off roading anytime soon where the tank cover will be necessary, but I'm kind of at a loss for words on any part backordered for 3 months. No way in heck it could be that high of a demand piece!

[VX KAT]

Should be done by Thursday.


They got all the cladding that quick?

I thought that same thing mav...:_thinking
Anybody have experience getting NEW cladding pieces recently, or know what Merlin says about availability? I thought it was pretty difficult to find these/track them down, and that contributed to so many VXs being considered "totaled" by ins. companies???

[Mile High VX]

I thought that same thing mav...:_thinking
Anybody have experience getting NEW cladding pieces recently, or know what Merlin says about availability? I thought it was pretty difficult to find these/track them down, and that contributed to so many VXs being considered "totaled" by ins. companies???

I ordered some items a few weeks ago and actually asked Merlin about the cladding. He said that everything was still available, but might take up to 8 weeks to get due to shippinng from overseas.

Everything still shows available on isuzuparts.com as well. Just in case you were wondering a total cladding replace, all 12 pieces, would cost you $2,880 plus shipping.

[VXjunky]

heck for another $120 bucks you get a whole purple VX attached to the cladding

[VX KAT]

heck for another $120 bucks you get a whole purple VX attached to the cladding
:thumbup:....but a problem engine apparently....:thumbdn:

[Bob Barker]

Yeah, I'm anxious to see if they tried to repair the cladding or actually replaced it like they said they did. Will find out mid next week. This ruins my weekend plans though, I was going to load the truck and head down to a Warrior dash 2 days early to go camping and cycling around some before the race. And how is something on backorder for 3 months? I haven't heard anyone here asking about a gas tank shield one single time! It's retarded! Why would it be on back order? I thought that was a place parts went when there is a super high demand for them and the supplier can't keep up?

[PK]

Yeah, I'm anxious to see if they tried to repair the cladding or actually replaced it like they said they did. Will find out mid next week. This ruins my weekend plans though, I was going to load the truck and head down to a Warrior dash 2 days early to go camping and cycling around some before the race. And how is something on backorder for 3 months? I haven't heard anyone here asking about a gas tank shield one single time! It's retarded! Why would it be on back order? I thought that was a place parts went when there is a super high demand for them and the supplier can't keep up?

Or a part that nobody ever orders, so they don't have one in stock and have to have it made to order.

PK

[tom4bren]

... and the fuel tank shield is on backorder UNTIL FREAKING APRIL! I laughed at the guy when he said that and he told me I could take the truck back until the piece comes in and that it would be fully functional with the crack in it. So I laughed some more...

I don't believe I'll be off roading anytime soon where the tank cover will be necessary, but I'm kind of at a loss for words on any part backordered for 3 months. No way in heck it could be that high of a demand piece!

What PK said.

If it's a part that nobody ever orders, why would they keep it in stock. There are probably some still here in the States but there's no way for them to easily track availability of parts with all of the different Isuzu authorized repair shops.

Maybe send Marlin a PM. They may still have that VX at the boneyard that he's been canabalizing.

& yes, it's perfectly OK to drive around with the damaged shield until the new comes in. It is completely hidden behind the rear cladding.


Anybody have experience getting NEW cladding pieces recently, or know what Merlin says about availability? I thought it was pretty difficult to find these/track them down, and that contributed to so many VXs being considered "totaled" by ins. companies???

Yup, last spring the shop working on mine located the front bumper cover and left front fender cladding locally (after talking to Merlin).

Look at post #73 in this thread:

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=18062&highlight=offset+saved

[Luna X]

... and I don't see anything wrong with repairing any claddings.

A well-travelled body-paint tech can make it look good as new..... ;)

[circmand]

Repair people called today with an update. The Curt hitch isn't going to be in until next Wednesday, and the fuel tank shield is on backorder UNTIL FREAKING APRIL! I laughed at the guy when he said that and he told me I could take the truck back until the piece comes in and that it would be fully functional with the crack in it. So I laughed some more...

I don't believe I'll be off roading anytime soon where the tank cover will be necessary, but I'm kind of at a loss for words on any part backordered for 3 months. No way in heck it could be that high of a demand piece!

Try ordering an OEM catalytic converter I hear the delay is much longer. As for tank cover with low demand parts they wait til they get enough orders to justify a run and then make a buch. So if you order after they run out you have to wait for them to evenmake them.

[VX KAT]

Any news yet on whether they were really able to find new cladding?

[Bob Barker]

I hadn't heard from the since last Thursday, until I called them today before work. Supposed to be getting it back tomorrow morning, after they install the correct hitch since the first one they recieved wouldn't line up correctly with the holes on the frame. Makes me wonder just how straight they could have gotten it if the same manufacturer's hitch won't fit any longer.

But to answer you, I did not ask about the cladding in today's conversation. Hopefully I will have an answer tomorrow.

[Triathlete]

Why not have your tank skid straightened out and the crack welded?

[Bob Barker]

I didn't suggest to them any way of repair, they decided to order a new one...

Got a call today that the tow hitch still hasn't arrived. Repair man said he contacted the shipping party and they confirmed it was on a truck and set to arrive first thing tomorrow morning. We'll see. I'm sick of this damn rental car. The flipping rear tire blew out on me today in it!

[Bob Barker]

Just picked up. Seems like everything is the way it should be. The cladding is brand spankin new! Makes the rest look kinda trashy! I hadn't seen "new" cladding on one of these ever before, I bet they looked some kind of awesome on the lots 10 years ago. They even fixed the alignment problem that was there before the wreck!

I tried to talk my wife into letting me order some new tires and wheels to make my VX feel better about being crashed into... she wouldn't go for it.

[vt_maverick]

Good to hear Bob! Maybe you could talk the wife into Gatorback, Fusion-Black, or Line-X to make the cladding match?

[VX KAT]

Wow, that's terrific! Just for reference, maybe you could post here exactly where the shop sourced the new cladding (isuzuparts.com, etc....) since Merlin told Mile High it would take several weeks to come from overseas.

[Bob Barker]

I asked the service man, and he said he wasn't sure. Maybe from St. Charles, but if Merlin said it could take several weeks that can't be right. When I asked he said he thinks it was from "Isuzu".... that could mean a lot of different places!

I am still aching to get the whole truck covered in Rino Linning, like that sexy beast from Scottland (I think that's where it is). But that's substantially more than a pair of new shoes for the truck.