On Board Air System - Help With What to Buy

[vt_maverick]

Now that my Tone cargo box is pretty much empty (after installing the JAMAS door box) I finally have the room to do something I've always wanted to do: mount/carry an air tank to speed re-inflation of my tires after offroading on the beach. I don't plan on ever installing lockers or running air tools, so from what I gather all I really need is the tank and coil hose. While researching I found the below pic in crotchrocket's gallery, which depicts almost exactly what I want to put in my Tone box (minus the compressor that you can't see in the picture).

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3266/medium/IMG_00087.JPG http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/100_5931.JPG

After spending some time on Google Shopping I found the best price on the air tank, coil hose, and inflation gun at www.4wheelparts.com:

http://www.suspensionconnection.com/images/master/91028_air_tank.jpg (http://www.4wheelparts.com/Towing-and-Tools/Viair-2-5-Gallon-Air-Tank.aspx?t_c=67&t_s=3&t_pt=5956&t_pl=9649&t_pn=V%2fA91028)http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSe_uW8rbussBMrvLLbNYsOQuiBfUoii Q8cNv-fH71l1KTWIAXkJw (http://www.4wheelparts.com/Towing-and-Tools/Viair-5-in-1-Inline-Inflation-Deflation-Coil-Hose.aspx?t_c=67&t_s=3&t_pt=7418&t_pl=9642&t_pn=V%2fA00029)http://www.4wd.com/aux_incl/images.ashx?i=00041.jpg&w=200&h=200 (http://www.4wheelparts.com/Towing-and-Tools/Viair-Tire-Inflation-Gun.aspx?t_c=67&t_s=3&t_pt=100446&t_pl=9643&t_pn=V%2fA00041)

So now I have two questions. First, it looks like the coil hose and inflation gun are mutually exclusive items, meaning you have to order both to get both the coil extension and the gun. Can anybody confirm that? (Thought I'd ask here before emailing their sales person.) Second, am I missing anything else that I need? All I want is the ability to rapidly re-inflate my tires, so I think I've got everything covered.

Thanks in advance! :)

[Bob Barker]

You will need a compressor to fill that air tank. It doesn't have to be mounted in the car but you'll have to be able to reach the tank with a hose from a compressor. Why don't you want one with a motor on it already? Wouldn't have to run until you are ready to fill 'er up.

[vt_maverick]

It can't have a compressor directly mounted on it because it wouldn't fit. If anything it makes more sense (to me) to buy a cheap unit to keep in the garage. I probably go offroad 3-4 times a year at most, so one fill will likely last me that long.

[PK]

It can't have a compressor directly mounted on it because it wouldn't fit. If anything it makes more sense (to me) to buy a cheap unit to keep in the garage. I probably go offroad 3-4 times a year at most, so one fill will likely last me that long.

If you are not going to have a compressor topping the tank up as you use it, you will need a bigger tank.
You might need to calculate the tanks size depending on your tyre size and what minimum pressure you air down to, and max pressure you want to pump back up to.
Or use a HP nitrogen bottle instead of compressed air.

PK

[vt_maverick]

I see where you're coming from PK, but let's say I drop each tire down 20PSI per trip, that's 80PSI to air down all four tires. The tank is rated at 200PSI, which should be more than enough for two, if not three, reinflates. Wouldn't work for a week in Moab, but fine for a weekend trip don't you think?

[Triathlete]

easiest setup would be a co2 bottle.:yesy:

[vt_maverick]

And the advantage of a CO2 bottle is...? More air fits in the same size container maybe?

[Marlin]

A 10lb CO2 bottle will 10-12 sets of 33" tires from 15lbs to 40lbs. I have a 10lb, and a 20lb bottle.
It is self contained, you can run impact tools on it as well. I don't think you can fill your air tank at home with a normal cheap compressor. In order to get enough volume to mean anything other than a single tire fill up, you are going to have to go to a SCUBA tank. Plus, not sure how many little home compressors can go tto 200psi. My big 30 gal Craftsman gets rough when I get in to 160s...a 200PSI compressor=$$$.

I do have a question, what offroading do you do? Pics or it never happened:)

Sorry, couldn't help it, lots of fancy gear, only offroad I have seen from you is at the beach...and that doesn't count. Come to the spring Uwharrie meet!!!:bgwb:

[Marlin]

Oh, the hose and gun can be had at Harbor Freight for less than 30 bucks. The gun is like 12 bucks. I have 3 of em in my house, one fore each truck and one for the garage. You don't have to buy the expensive Viair stuff, especially if you only wheel 3-4 times a year.

[BigSwede]

I'm not sure you even need a tank. That tank is not big enough to fill even one tire, so it will only save you a couple of minute of inflation time for one tire. For your projected use I would just get a decent compressor...even a Superflow MV-50 would do a great job for you for only around $60. I have used one for years, even with my 35" tires.

A CO2 system holds MUCH more volume per tank/bottle, because the CO2 is stored in liquid form. You could probably go a year or more with a 10 lb. bottle based on your projected use. BUT, the CO2 tank must be stored upright, which may not an option for your storage space.

If you are interested I am putting a CO2 system together, I have a 20 lb. bottle, a fire extinguisher bracket, a fixed-pressure high-flow regulator, and a good coiled hose that can handle the cold temps of the CO2. Just need to get it mounted safely...definitely don't want that tank crashing around the vehicle while wheeling, or in the event of a rollover.

There are also commercial CO2 setups available, such as the Powertank...they are pretty spendy though for a thrifty Scandinavian like me.

[Marlin]

I see where you're coming from PK, but let's say I drop each tire down 20PSI per trip, that's 80PSI to air down all four tires. The tank is rated at 200PSI, which should be more than enough for two, if not three, reinflates. Wouldn't work for a week in Moab, but fine for a weekend trip don't you think?

Ummm, this isn't a question of PSI, but rather volume. Think about how much space is inside your tire. The bottle would have to be just as large as the tire in order to fill the tire. I would guess that the little tank shown, at 200 psi, MIGHT do one tire from 15-20psi back up to 40psi...maybe. If I use my 30 gallon tank, I can do one 34" tire from 15lbs up to 45lbs. The compressor will kick back on at 65-70lbs. That little tiny tank ain't gonna cut it. CO2 or nitrogen, for your goal of small space, fast inflation.

[vt_maverick]

Sand gets pretty deep in certain parts of the OBX, especially in the really cut up areas at the entry ramps into the various ORV areas. My cousin has a house that's 8 miles down the beach from the end of the paved road. That beach is no joke, you see tons of trucks, SUVs, etc. mired in deep ruts. I don't care how meaty your tires are, you'd be foolish to not drop your pressure to at least 10-15 PSI.

You also have to understand the difference in the environment. You guys go to Moab, where you air down/up once a day because you're in a large contiguous park. The OBX islands are sometimes only half a mile wide, so you can run the trail/beach in an hour or two. The offroad areas can be as much as 50 miles apart on blacktop roads, so you need to air up between areas or you'll eat up your tires. All this means that I may air down/up as many as 3-4 times per day. Saving a few minutes per tire X 4 tires X 3 times per day = a lot of time saved.

So it sounds like a regular air tank won't meet those needs. Are there any N or CO2 tanks that don't have to be stored sitting up?

[VX KAT]

Are their any N or CO2 tanks that don't have to be stored sitting up?

Maybe reconfigure and put the tank upright in the back door, move your inflatable jack or other stuff to the Tone box? Or is that too short?

[BigSwede]

Are their any N or CO2 tanks that don't have to be stored sitting up?
It is possible a CO2 tank can be stored horizontally...not sure if this would affect the safety (overpressure) valve or not. They definitely have to be upright or at least at an angle to use for inflation, because the outlet cannot be submerged in liquid CO2.
Here is about the most horizontal the tank can be for inflation:
http://www.powertank.com/products/sfID1/34/productID/304

[BigSwede]

Note the 4th pic down on the right. Horizontal storage appears to be acceptable, provided you stand it upright for use.

http://www.powertank.com/mounting.ideas

[tom4bren]

Sounds to me like you need a quality CTIS. The military use a Central Tire Inflation System on many of their vehicles. There are probably even commercial available kits out there too.

It's a major modification though so I'm sure it's just a pipe dream.

Think about it though: Approach the trail head & just set the desired psi on the dash. The system automatically airs down all tires to the desired pressure ... AND ... maintains that pressure under all wheeling conditions. Approach the trail end & just readjust the psi for road use & the system has you aired back up as soon as rubber meets asphalt.

[vt_maverick]

I'll start working on the loan application now Tom lol...

Sue - the door cargo box has a maximum interior height of about 15-16 inches. The minimum height dimension for a 10 lb. tank seems to be about 23 inches so that won't work. A fatter shorter tank wouldn't fit either.

Horizontal storage / vertical inflation seems like a viable option. Only thing that sucks is that a full tank weighs about 37 lbs., so taking it out each time would be painful.

[BigSwede]

A fancy carry handle can help with that...
http://www.powertank.com/products/sfID1/21/listPage/2/productID/47

[Marlin]

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/IMGP1052.JPG

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/IMGP1627.JPG

I keep mine standing up, never tried horizontal. I will say that it does vent off in the summer, and it smells like cigarette smoke, so no storing inside long term in the heat:(

[vt_maverick]

A fancy carry handle can help with that...
http://www.powertank.com/products/sfID1/21/listPage/2/productID/47

$70 for a handle? :eek:

[vt_maverick]

Ummm, this isn't a question of PSI, but rather volume. Think about how much space is inside your tire. The bottle would have to be just as large as the tire in order to fill the tire. I would guess that the little tank shown, at 200 psi, MIGHT do one tire from 15-20psi back up to 40psi...maybe. If I use my 30 gallon tank, I can do one 34" tire from 15lbs up to 45lbs. The compressor will kick back on at 65-70lbs. That little tiny tank ain't gonna cut it. CO2 or nitrogen, for your goal of small space, fast inflation.

Yeah you learn that on like day 2 of physics class. :slap: :_brickwal I remembered that this morning on the way to work but didn't have time to delete it before you replied. :)

[vt_maverick]

Note the 4th pic down on the right. Horizontal storage appears to be acceptable, provided you stand it upright for use.

http://www.powertank.com/mounting.ideas

This quote from the web page combined with Marlin's observation worries me though:


The light aluminum Floor Brkt. holds the CO2 tank at the perfect angle to expel vapor yet provide a super low center of gravity for maximum stability.


I keep mine standing up, never tried horizontal. I will say that it does vent off in the summer, and it smells like cigarette smoke, so no storing inside long term in the heat. :(

I don't plan on keeping the tank in there all the time anyway, but it will be HOT when we're out on the beach. Not trying to have everyone pass out while driving...

[BigSwede]

I have done a fair amount of reading on CO2 systems, very few folks have experienced overpressure venting of the CO2 tank. In fact, my understanding is that the overpressure safety valve consists of a disc that ruptures at a certain pressure, releasing all of the contents...which sounds different than what Marlin is experiencing. Maybe something to do with his regulator?

[tom4bren]

Yeah you learn that on like day 2 of physics class. :slap: :_brickwal I remembered that this morning on the way to work but didn't have time to delete it before you replied. :)

PV=mRT

[BigSwede]

$70 for a handle? :eek:
Like I said, fancy.

[Marlin]

I have done a fair amount of reading on CO2 systems, very few folks have experienced overpressure venting of the CO2 tank. In fact, my understanding is that the overpressure safety valve consists of a disc that ruptures at a certain pressure, releasing all of the contents...which sounds different than what Marlin is experiencing. Maybe something to do with his regulator?

Mine doesn't have a rupture disc, it is a standard CO2 bottle from a pop machine...I paid about 125ish IRRC for the bottle, regulator, hose and chuck on Ebay. The 20lb bottle, I bought off of Smiley on the Planet for 20 bucks, but it needs a hydro.

[Triathlete]

Only thing that sucks is that a full tank weighs about 37 lbs., so taking it out each time would be painful.

Sounds like its time to start hitting the gym before beach season!:bwgy:

[vt_maverick]

You sound like my wife! :p

It's not that I can't move it, I'm just too lazy to do it if it can be avoided. :)

[Triathlete]

You sound like my wife! :p


Never met her...but, I like her already!:rotate: