Engine Swap

[WiSDoM]

Hello Guys,
I am thinking about an engine/tranny swap for this summer and wanted to go American maybe a small block v8. I don't have the coin for LS*, but would be interested in hear your opinions if any on what you think would be the easiest and best swap to do. It been along time since I have driven the beast. She gave up the ghost in jan. this year. Not driving her is killing me. I would like to gain hp and torque, just not sure which to go Ford, Chevy, or jeep motor. i guess it would be more bang for the buck and ease of swap.

[Gussie2000]

I guess it's time to do a lot of research to find the proper and suitable engine & for the VX.

Going V8 ? what about fuel price ? :_huh:
Unless isn't your DD it could be Ok to do so.

Another details such as ECU,wiring harness and drivetrain fitness is all to be taken into account. You must have a good bunch of $$$ do get the job done.

I hope you can successfully get it,i also would love to get more power and torque for my horse :(

[etlsport]

4.0L V8 from an olds aurora will bolt directly to our trans or the rodeo 5 speed trans which still works with our tod transfer case.

[Riff Raff]

4.0L V8 from an olds aurora will bolt directly to our trans or the rodeo 5 speed trans which still works with our tod transfer case.

That sounds like a winning match, EtlSport!!! Although, I'd love to see a classic small block GM family 350 C.I or 400 C.I. be squeezed into a VX cavity. Whatever goes under the hood; it undoubtedly should come from the GM family bloodline, since Isuzu has distinct family ties to GM over the years.

:bgwb:

[WiSDoM]

TOD works okay with the 5 speed? I was only getting around 10-15mpg before so I am not sure the mpg can get much worst. I drive about 60m pre day on a lot of back country roads with crazy hills and winding roads. Fun to drive on but a bitch on mpg. I was thinking what ever would be easier and cheaper to of course. I was quoted by two difference shops on rebuilds and used motor replacement and the price range is 3500.00 for just rebuild alone so what is expensive I guess it is all relative. 4.0 would be a good option too.

[WiSDoM]

The tranny we have can't handle more than 275hp right?

[etlsport]

IIrc 285 ft lbs of torque is the limiter. The rodeo 5 speed is much stronger, and yes it was sucessfully used with TOD in a VX

I think the install presented two problems, part or the casing had to be shaved down for clearance under hard acceleration and the check trans fluid light flashes as a shift indicator

[WiSDoM]

I know it is a tall order. I have been looking for a stock chevy eng/tran w/pass. side drop for a while now.

[Gussie2000]

IIrc 285 ft lbs of torque is the limiter. The rodeo 5 speed is much stronger, and yes it was sucessfully used with TOD in a VX

I think the install presented two problems, part or the casing had to be shaved down for clearance under hard acceleration and the check trans fluid light flashes as a shift indicator

What about the wiring harness & the ECU eric ?

Is all 100% compatible with that engine or requires additional mods ?

According to the 2001 aurora the engine handles 250 hp @ 5600rpm. Torque is 260 @ 4400rpms.

Does anyone knows how much $$$ that engine cost ?

[etlsport]

I would presume the ecu would have to be swapped as well, thats why I mentioned the rodeo 5speed, less computer control necessary

[Riff Raff]

Does anyone knows how much $$$ that engine cost ?

Do a search on eBay for 4.0L Olds Aurora V-8 engne pricing. You may be pleasently surprised at just how inexpensive that 250HP engine really is.

If it's an uncomplicated swap, it may be a much better choice than rebuilding/replacing with the OEM 3.5 engine. I don't know, but I hope somebody tries the Aurora 4.0L swap-out someday to determine its compatibility with the VX and gives a report here on the forum.

:bgwb:

[Gussie2000]

Do a search on eBay for 4.0L Olds Aurora V-8 engne pricing. You may be pleasently surprised at just how inexpensive that 250HP engine really is.

If it's an uncomplicated swap, it may be a much better choice than rebuilding/replacing with the OEM 3.5 engine. I don't know, but I hope somebody tries the Aurora 4.0L swap-out someday to determine its compatibility with the VX and gives a report here on the forum.

:bgwb:

If i can gather the right info i can look into this.
I just saw a 4.0L engine for under $ 600.00 with 83,000 miles,not bad considering it comes from a 2001 model.

[SilverBullet75]

I had considered buying a wrecked Corvette and removing the entire VX drivetrain and replacing with all Vette front to back... with some modding of course. But, would the time and money be worth it? Not sure (for me). I'd almost rather buy a Grand Cherokee SRT-8.

[Grif]

I did a search too, on ebay. One for approx $2100 or so.

According to wikipedia there was also a twin turbo version of that engine producing some ungodly amount of HP. That one would prolly never fit, but the core was the same 4.0l.

[Gussie2000]

I did a search too, on ebay. One for approx $2100 or so.

According to wikipedia there was also a twin turbo version of that engine producing some ungodly amount of HP. That one would prolly never fit, but the core was the same 4.0l.

I saw that one too.

But with fuel prices heading up an V8 it's kind of scary ;eekb;

[SilverBullet75]

So far, every V8 truck or SUV I've seen with much more HP than our 215 has as bad as or better gas mileage than ours. I think the Olds may be a good option. It has 17C/25H rating. Add some more weight and it may drop by about 2ish.

[Ldub]

I did a search too, on ebay. One for approx $2100 or so.

According to wikipedia there was also a twin turbo version of that engine producing some ungodly amount of HP. That one would prolly never fit, but the core was the same 4.0l.

Maybe not with the stock turbo locations...:naughty:

Just get a bigger wheelbarrow full of c-notes...:smilewink

http://forums.trinituner.com/upload/data/81/113_0411_turbo07_z.jpg

I believe we're looking at no fewer than EIGHT in the above pic...;ooo;

[samneil2000]

The great Carroll Shelby was fond of that 4.0 as well. Check this peach out!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelby_Series_1

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/ShelbySeries1_Silver-RedStripe.jpg

[etlsport]

very cool on that shelby...

did some more research on this swap. there are two versions of this motor. the oldsmobile verison and the caddilac version. caddilac is a northstar, generates more power

as far as i can tell the swap has not been done, but all the research has and the conclusions were that the engine bolts directly up and will fit between the fenders on a trooper. a small relief will need to be cut in the bell housing to accmodate the starter, but should not cause any issues. biggest issue is that the 4.0 is rated at 260ft-lbs and isuzu rates the 4L30E at 258 (not 285 as i said before)

both 4.0s have electronic fuel injection so the ecu would have to be brought over or a new one would need to be created. our factory trans sends a signal to our engine right before shifting to limit the power in order to save the wear, so its likely that motor would drastically reduce the life of our auto trans. however the mua5 manual trans that has been swapped into a vx sucessfully will mate up just fine and that problem would be solved.

[yellowgizmo99]

I think I remember someone put a 4.8 N* in a trooper, think it is saved on home computer, will look when I get there.

[samneil2000]

Weren't there some diesel troopers? Were those the early models? If the ones related to the VX had that option, that would be a good transplant.

[RamAirZ]

the 4.0 will bolt up to an early 91/92 Rodeo 5-spd or an 2.8 Trooper 5-spd, the Isuzu V6 5spd bellhousing pattern is different than our 4L30E. Also if your wanting to run the 4L30, you'd have to figure out the electronics to control the transmission, as far as the TOD case being used on a 5spd, that would be on the AR5 5spd from the late Trooper and it's bellhousing isn't the same as the 4L30E either. Now you'd have to get a custom flywheel/clutch made to mate everything together if you used an early MUA5 trans and they are strong. IMO I don't think the 4.0 swap is worth it aside from the "cool" factor, also you have to look into starter mounting. You could grab a small block chevy or 4.3 V6 and a 2.8/3.1 V6 Isuzu manual, run a fiero adapter and one of their clutches and be set. As far as the Diesel's, that was the 1st gen Troop from 86-88 here in the states and that motor sucks, a good swap would be the 2.8 or 3.1 turbo-diesel from overseas, I myself would prefer the 2.8 because it has a mechanical injection pump and would make the swap easier. there was also a guy that swapped in a early 90's TBI Caddy V8 into a Troop, it's an option too but I think there are better motors out there

http://myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson/trooper/Cadillac/cadillac.htm

The 5.3 V8 from the FWD GM's has the 60-degree bellhousing pattern as well but again, no bosses for the starter on the block so you would have to rig something up for that, but it is also somewhat shorter which gives us more room. They use a shorter snout on the crankshaft and a snug accessory drive to clear everything in the FWD cars

[WiSDoM]

I was thinking the same thing about the 5.3, but would need a new tranny too.
was looking at the 700R4 which I believe I rad some where that I could use our stock tc. Has anyone else read this anywhere?

[RamAirZ]

I was thinking the same thing about the 5.3, but would need a new tranny too.
was looking at the 700R4 which I believe I rad some where that I could use our stock tc. Has anyone else read this anywhere?


I don't think you could use it and not sure why you would want to bother. If you get a 5.3 from a RWD vehicle then any V8 or 4.3 V6 700R4 would fit (minus a bolt hole) and if your using the FWD 5.3 you'd want one from a 2.8 V6 S10 and if your keeping the IFS, you could get an adapter made to fit the Isuzu Tcase or run a Dana 300 since it is a small tcase. A guy on planet swapped in a 700R4 and Dana 300 behind the 3.2 Isuzu V6, which he used the 2.8 version 700. Now if you used a 700R4 you will have to fab a bracket on your throttle linkage to work the TV cable, unless you swap in a manual valve body, it's essential to proper function and the life of the trans (not too hard to make it work).

[WiSDoM]

Yeah I was not thinking about a fwd just the 5.3l

[RamAirZ]

gotcha, then your typical 700R4 will work behind it, just fab up a bracket for the TV cable.

[WiSDoM]

they put the 5.3l in the 7 passenger in the 2004 isuzu ascender.

[RamAirZ]

yup but it's basically a Trailblazer, nothing but the emblems on it are actually "isuzu"

[WiSDoM]

Update on engine swap:
vx should be back on the road by the end on the month.

09 H3 5.3l LH8 motor/tranny/computer w/5200 mi. 2120.00
painleass wireharness 605-26 1094.00
starter/ alternator 140.00

install estimate 2000.00

I will post pics and price updates if any.

[RamAirZ]

What tcase are you using?

[WiSDoM]

I will using ours.

[LittleBeast]

I will using ours.

oh man I hope it can handle the increase in power.

[RamAirZ]

So you have an adapter plate lined up for it? I wouldn't be worried about the tcase not holding the power, I think it'd be ok, but I would rather have a manual case than the TOD so there is less parts to fail just in case.

[LittleBeast]

So you have an adapter plate lined up for it? I wouldn't be worried about the tcase not holding the power, I think it'd be ok, but I would rather have a manual case than the TOD so there is less parts to fail just in case.

You're right I think our stock tranny would blow before the t-case

[RamAirZ]

Ya but since he's using the 4L60E that's behind it it should be ok just needs a plate for the tcase so it can bolt up. I would try to get the H3 4:1 tcase and make that work, it's passenger drop!

[LittleBeast]

Ya but since he's using the 4L60E that's behind it it should be ok just needs a plate for the tcase so it can bolt up. I would try to get the H3 4:1 tcase and make that work, it's passenger drop!

I wonder if the plate was in the $2,000 install cost?

[RamAirZ]

possible, I think that 4:1 case would be sick though. If they make a plate have them keep the dimesnions etc so we can see about mass producing it!

[WiSDoM]

I thought the hummer tc was a driverside drop and that ours would just bolt right up.

[waaaaht]

wish they could do a isuzuconversion
http://http://www.suzukiconversion.com/suzuki_conversions.htm
http://http://www.suzukiconversion.com/suzuki_conversions.htm#

[RamAirZ]

I thought the hummer tc was a driverside drop and that ours would just bolt right up.

No they are weird and have a passenger side drop. And no the isuzu tcase pattern is not the same as the GM, it won't bolt up. And the Suzuki conversion isn't any easier than ours really. You could swap in a V8 fairly easy if you've done swaps like it before. Just pick the right motor combo.

[waaaaht]

http://www.suzukiconversion.com/
http://www.suzukiconversion.com/images/suzuki_conversio_r45_c27.gif

sorry bout that ...here ya go...4.3 vortec, 200r4 tranny, and not bad for the price to make a beefy sammy

[RamAirZ]

I'd go with a different trans but they build some cool stuff.

[atilla_the_fun]

Seriously, I'd rather put the VW TDI 1.9L into the suzuki, that way you get 260lb/ft of torque (after ECU flashing) and 45mpg. I'd use parts from the jeep vw tdi kit on the VX, fab up the adapter plate and modified flywheel (or use the modified jeep one), use our tranny with an external 4L60E shift controller and run with it.

[WiSDoM]

Yah the tranny is 4l65e and I will be shopping for the h3 t/c NR6

[RamAirZ]

That'll be sick if you get that Tcase set-up. And I wouldn't bother with the 4L30E behind the TDI Atilla, why go through the work of swapping that motor in and leave the 4L30 behind it? Also the 4L60E controller wouldn't work with the 4L30E, they are completely different.

[Gussie2000]

According to wikipedia GM discontinued our VX's trans for a more reliable and better builted 5L40-E that features a 5 speed gearbox that is used in most BMW's 5 and 3 series sedans and SUV's

Not sure if this new trans is suitable for our VX but worth looking into it

[WiSDoM]

I the problem I see with the hummer tc is the shifter controls. any idea would hate to shell out another 300.00 just for switches.

[WiSDoM]

Not sure exactly what I will need to get for that tc to work.
tc module, tc electric motor, and shifter control switch. Am I missing something?
what would be a better option?

[RamAirZ]

You could run a Dana 300 with an adapter off the back, it's a small tcase and get a remote shifter for it. If you get the modules and switches for the tcase it shouldn't be too hard to wire up. I don't have a diagram for it but the Astro van guys do it with S10 cases alot when they want 4wd instead of awd. As for the 5L30E, you'd need to have the computer completely reprogrammed and probably some harness modifications to make it work, and since no one really modifies our computers (JET doesn't count, they just make air/fuel adjustments, I don't think they can rewrite the whole ecu) I don't think it'd work.

[WiSDoM]

I already have the 4l65e tranny. I am waiting to hear from my mechanic. i have h3 tc case on hold, but the all the access. are going to add up quick.

[RamAirZ]

they always do. You could run that dana 300 behind the 4L65 if you decide against the H3 case

[WiSDoM]

I got word today from my mechanic he can get a adapter made for 1500.00 because it being a one off. Ramair do you think a nv241 work work? the 89 blazer had a passenger side drop. My concern with the h3 tc is getting the harness, module, and switch to work right. any ideas?

[RamAirZ]

The 241 would work, it's an aluminum case chain drive tcase, you'd just have to rig up the shifter for it which shouldn't be TOO difficult.

[WiSDoM]

RamAirz, if it was your Rig what would you do? givin the 5.3 and tranny i have. I am still undecided. looking at pros and cons

[RamAirZ]

If it were me, I'd go with an adapter from advance adapters and a Dana 300. The aftermarket is huge, it's a small lightweight case and with a remote shifter it should make it alot easier to keep a stock look in the truck, you could even run twin sticks, plus it's a stronger case. The 241 doesn't have as much support, and I'm not sure if they make a remote shifter but isn't the 241 a straight pattern shifter (forward and back movements for all gears)? That would make it a little harder to fit in the VX console. Here's a pic of a guy who swapped in a 700R4 (same basic trans as your new one) and running a Dana 300 with twin stick shifters in a Passport (Rodeo, same basic console lay-out as the VX):

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/soulpatch75/Trans%20tech/shifter.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/soulpatch75/Trans%20tech/preview.jpg

he had to push the trans towards the drivers side a hair to clear the torsion bars with the tcase but since your doing a whole motor swap, this shouldn't be much of an issue, and his fix was easy and worked.

[WiSDoM]

Hey Ramair do you know where he got his shifter from?
I am ordering my dana 300 today with teralow 300 installed.

thanks Mike

[RamAirZ]

Northwest Fab Works, here is how he mounted it:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/soulpatch75/Trans%20tech/shifter02.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/soulpatch75/Trans%20tech/shiftermounted.jpg

Clearance on the Tbar:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/soulpatch75/Trans%20tech/clearance03.jpg

On his truck he trimmed the transmission pan to help with shaft clearance:
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/soulpatch75/Trans%20tech/panclearance01.jpg

[SilverBullet75]

Any updates? How's the conversion going?

[WiSDoM]

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/DSC00166_800x600.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/21098)
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/DSC00167_800x600.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/21099)

I stopped in yesterday and he was getting ready to fab in the motor mounts. he said motor and tranny fit really well, but not enough for the clutch fan and A/C. I am going to have a custom radiator made and may be a few other things too. I have been collecting part for sometime now so the process has been slow. I can't wait to have her home and running lol been almost 6 months.

[WiSDoM]

hello guys,
Does anyone know any thing about the dana 300? The problem we are having now is getting the factory speedo to work.

[RamAirZ]

an NP231 speedo sensor from a jeep should swap right into the dana 300 (since it's a cable unit) and then you would just need to address the wiring which should be fairly easy. You will probably need to get one of those electronic speedo calibration boxes to match the signals and get the reading right

[WiSDoM]

updated photos
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/DSC00267_800x600.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/21321)
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/DSC00268_800x600.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/21322)

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/DSC00269_800x600.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/21323)

[RamAirZ]

Looks good! Are you going to keep the drive-by-wire throttle body or switch to a cable unit?

[ZEUS]

That should be interesting with the 4.77's!! Nice progress man!

[H3_VX]

any new news on this engine swap. is it finished?

[kach22i]

.......You could grab a small block chevy or 4.3 V6 and a 2.8/3.1 V6 Isuzu manual, run a fiero adapter and one of their clutches and be set..........

UPDATE:

Is the above statement accurate?

Just curious.

[kach22i]

Additional info: I have a good 4.3L in my S-10, could use the aftermarket head gasket seal, used a block sealer on it and it is holding - for now.