overheating is back

[zadam123]

well i thought i solved the problem of my overheating at the end of last summer by replacing my heater core but after driving all winter with absolutaly no problems the first nice day i took the car on a 1 hr drive and the overheating is back and the same symptoms are back . it overheats only in the daytime on hot days above 65. I drove tomy friends housefrom ny - nj during the day temp was around 65-70 i had to pull over on the 1hr drive 5 times to let the car cool down. I then drove home that night 5 hr later outside temp was now in the 50s with absolutaly no problems!

I still have no symptoms of a head gasket like oil mixed with antifreeze, smoke or a skip or loss of power just overheating when hot out.

If you havent read my other posts regarding this issue here is what was done to the car already trying to fix the problem, replaced the clutch fan, flushed the radiator and replaced the thermostat. I was told the water pump is pumping strong. I have talked to other mechanics and was told they highly doubt its a head gasket since there is no smoke or missfire but its hard to detect since this only happens on drives over 45 minutes on hot days.

[Kona-Vs]

I've had old radiator hoses soften up with heat and the suction from a good water pump collapse them

[Bob Barker]

I'm not sure on our trucks (just looked but didn't find anything), but on other cars there is a "high" spot on the cooling system that needs to be burped if the coolant has ever been drained, overheated and pushed into the overflow bottle, or gotten low and been refilled allowing air into the system. Basically what can happen is the air bubble get stuck in the water pump and it will not circulate the coolant through the engine.

[Triathlete]

Have you had the radiator checked? Could have a tube or two obstructed which would cause those symthoms.

[phines]

My VX wasn't making any smoke when I had that broken head bolt, so I wouldn't rule out the head gasket. Symptoms were very similar too.

[zadam123]

My VX wasn't making any smoke when I had that broken head bolt, so I wouldn't rule out the head gasket. Symptoms were very similar too.

can you see a broken head bolt if so where is it located?

[Bob Barker]

Pull off the valve covers and look inside.

[phines]

My VX and at least one other had the same head bolts break. I think it was the one closest to the front of the engine all the way on the passenger side.

[zadam123]

My VX and at least one other had the same head bolts break. I think it was the one closest to the front of the engine all the way on the passenger side.

can you see it from the top of the engine or do i have to look under the car?

[Y33TREKker]

can you see it from the top of the engine or do i have to look under the car?
Assuming that's what the problem with your VX is, head bolts are used to fasten the heads to the engine block. To see the tops of the head bolts, the valve covers have to be removed.

Maybe the members here who've mentioned having that particular front-passenger side head bolt break will provide specifics on which section of the bolts actually broke, but if they broke above the threads, it's possible that you'd be able to turn a broken bolt by hand once the valve cover was off.

Can't say that I have any other suggestions at the moment for what may be causing the overheating.

[zadam123]

Assuming that's what the problem with your VX is, head bolts are used to fasten the heads to the engine block. To see the tops of the head bolts, the valve covers have to be removed.

Maybe the members here who've mentioned having that particular front-passenger side head bolt break will provide specifics on which section of the bolts actually broke, but if they broke above the threads, it's possible that you'd be able to turn a broken bolt by hand once the valve cover was off.

Can't say that I have any other suggestions at the moment for what may be causing the overheating.

ok i an a novice so before i go crazy trying to figure out if this is the problem is there any way this could be the problem if all winter long i never overheated?

and also this pdf manual dont tell how to take off the valve cover is this hard to do? any writeups on it?

thanks

[phines]

I let the local garage track down the problem, so they took the valve covers off. I don't know how easy or difficult that is. This is where the broken head bolt was:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/broken_head_bolt.JPG

The bolt broke off right above the thread, so the valve cover and gravity was the only thing keeping the top of the bolt in there. If you have the same problem, you won't be able to fix it yourself. There aren't any bolt extractors that can reach it from the top side of the engine.

And yes, you could have had this problem all winter. I had the problem for several years before I finally figured out what it was and fixed it. I had to be very careful driving on warm days and it was never a problem on cold days unless I was towing a heavily loaded trailer.

[Y33TREKker]

ok i an a novice so before i go crazy trying to figure out if this is the problem is there any way this could be the problem if all winter long i never overheated?

and also this pdf manual dont tell how to take off the valve cover is this hard to do? any writeups on it?

thanks
I'd rather let one of the other members who have actually had those head bolts break weigh in as to whether it affected their VX's during the winter. However, if it was a broken head bolt causing the problems you're having, I'd personally imagine that kind of thing would probably cause problems regardless of ambient temps. Not sure about that though.

[Edited to add] - How was that for timing?

If you're looking at the .pdf file that's available from this site, try searching for "cylinder head cover LH" rather than "valve cover". It appears the "LH" side is the one for the passenger side, and as (good) luck would have it, that side doesn't seem to be as difficult as the driver side.

[Ldub]

I'm not sure on our trucks (just looked but didn't find anything), but on other cars there is a "high" spot on the cooling system that needs to be burped if the coolant has ever been drained, overheated and pushed into the overflow bottle, or gotten low and been refilled allowing air into the system. Basically what can happen is the air bubble get stuck in the water pump and it will not circulate the coolant through the engine.

FWIW...& it may not be much, A few yrs ago I read about a Rodeo or Trooper owner with similar problems, I believe it was over at Planet Isuzu.

He had to park his truck on some ramps, so that the nose was higher than the rear of the truck to "burp" all the air out of his cooling system.

Might be worth a shot...:_confused

[zadam123]

I let the local garage track down the problem, so they took the valve covers off. I don't know how easy or difficult that is. This is where the broken head bolt was:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/broken_head_bolt.JPG

The bolt broke off right above the thread, so the valve cover and gravity was the only thing keeping the top of the bolt in there. If you have the same problem, you won't be able to fix it yourself. There aren't any bolt extractors that can reach it from the top side of the engine.

And yes, you could have had this problem all winter. I had the problem for several years before I finally figured out what it was and fixed it. I had to be very careful driving on warm days and it was never a problem on cold days unless I was towing a heavily loaded trailer.

that sounds like exactaly what my problem is, thanks for the responce. I looked in the manual and am not going to even atttempt this job ,now i just have to find a mechanic to try listing to me to check this out. Just curious how much should i be charged to check this out?

[zadam123]

just one more question, i took off the radiator cap and let the car run for about 10 minutes and noticed that the antifreeze never went down just rose to the rim and slowly spilt out (little bit) shouldnt the level have went down if the thermostat opened?

[IndianaVX]

just one more question, i took off the radiator cap and let the car run for about 10 minutes and noticed that the antifreeze never went down just rose to the rim and slowly spilt out (little bit) shouldnt the level have went down if the thermostat opened?



It should, if the thermostat is working as IT should..... And I would think this bolt repair..... There's alot of stuff that's gotta come off to get to it, price will be accordingly. Sorry this happened, good luck!

[phines]

The way the technician explained the problem to me was exhaust from the combustion chamber was making its way into the radiator fluid (we could clearly see the path across the head gasket too) and this was over-pressurizing the coolant system causing the flow to be much slower or completely stopped (almost like having two pumps pumping in opposite directions).

I never tried running the VX with the radiator cap off so I don't know what to tell you there.

A decent garage should be able to determine if the head bolt is broken off in an hour or two, so check their hourly rates. Tell them not to loosen any of the head bolts, just look for a broken one. Once loosened, you have to replace them with new bolts. You might be able to get away with just replacing the one bolt, assuming they can get the broken piece out.

[phines]

The thermostat is way simpler/cheaper to replace so do that first if you haven't already. But I'm guessing the bolt problem would cause the same slow overflow you saw with the radiator cap off.

[Bob Barker]

Again, don't forget you can burp the system to get an air pocket out. IF there is air in it, the thermostat will still open, but it won't circulate because the water pump blades are essentially spinning in an air pocket. Find some ramps, or some tall jacks, get the front all the way up as high and safe as you can and find the high spot in the system. Run the car until it's warm and you are sure the t-stat should be opening and open up the high spot, it may be the cap since it's in the middle of the radiator unlike a lot of other cars. It may be a bolt I can't find. But it's free and worth a shot. If you see a lot of bubbles coming up when you open the cap and the truck heats up then make sure you have some extra fluids on hand to put back in there so another air bubble doesn't get in.

Worth a freebee shot.

[Y33TREKker]

...Run the car until it's warm and you are sure the t-stat should be opening and open up the high spot, it may be the cap since it's in the middle of the radiator unlike a lot of other cars. It may be a bolt I can't find. But it's free and worth a shot. If you see a lot of bubbles coming up when you open the cap and the truck heats up then make sure you have some extra fluids on hand to put back in there so another air bubble doesn't get in.

Worth a freebee shot.
My car actually has a second radiator type cap incorporated into the intake casting at the designated high-spot that makes burping the system very easy. I looked in our manual and didn't see anything specified as far as any designated "high spots" in our cooling system though.

All the manual really says for our systems is that re-filling the system at a slow rate once any work is completed is the best way to prevent air pockets from forming.

[Bob Barker]

The Mach 1 I sold had a cross over pipe between the heads that had a really hard to remove bolt. May be something like that with our trucks.

[VXobsession]

Sounds to me like your head gasket. Last year before I bought my VX, the previous owner spent almost $3,000 getting the heads fixed. The mechanic that worked on it apparently didn't machine the heads down properly nor did he tighten the bolts as much as he should've.....my baby has just now gotten out of the shop getting the heads fixed again. Luckily, I paid for parts and that's it. My mechanic is one of my best friends. I didn't know my head gasket was blown, there were no symptoms, except for a little overheating, under the same conditions you've experienced. There is something called a "block tester"...costs about $45 from NAPA. Follow the instructions and you can find out if there is combustion leaking into your antifreeze. THAT will happen before antifreeze leaks into your oil. Once antifreeze leaks into your oil, your on your way to bigger and more expensive repairs. So catch it early! You can buy this block tester and check it yourself or let a mechanic charge you $300 to do the same thing. At least if you do it yourself, you'll know what your mechanic needs to fix instead of them charging you to look at it, test it, tell you what's wrong, and then finally charge you for working on it. They might "find" a lot wrong with it, charge you for it, and you'll still have the same problems because they didn't fix the correct thing in the first place.

[zadam123]

ok he told me he did a compression test and it was good, he said that my thermostat was a aftermarket one and was the wrong temp (i think he said it was a 170) he said i need the 190 OEM one and is in the prosess of changing it , I told him it would seem that the 170 should make run cooler but he said aftermarket ones are no good and may not open all the way.well see tommorrow

as far as the block tester is that like a compression test?

[tom4bren]

I've been fighting a similar battle with my 03 Eclipse for 2 years now. I've finally gotten it to where although it runs hot in stop-n-go traffic, it doesn't overheat.

What I've done so far:

1. Shop replaced temp sensor. They replaced the wrong one though. They replaced the one for the temp guage instead of the one that turns the fan on/off.

2. I replaced the correct temp sensor but it didn't help.

3. I replaced the water pump (was told that it could be that the vanes on the water pump were eroded to the point that it wasn't moving enough coolant). That didn't fix the problem either & the old pump looked fine. BTW, I replaced the timing belt while I was in there.

4. I replaced the thermostat twice (once with aftermarket & once with OEM). That didn't fix the problem either. I'm running without a thermostat right now.

5. I tried repeatedly to burp the system with no success. I was told that the system could get a bubble behind the thermostat which would cause it to not open. I even drilled a hole through one of the thermostats to allow any bubbles to seap through.

6. Replaced the relay that turns the fan on/off. It was dead & now I can drive it without the fear of overheating (even though it still runs hot according to the temp guage).

Eventually I'll put the thermostat back in & probably replace both temp sensors again but there's no rush. The only problem I have running it without the thermostat is that I get a CEL about once a week during the winter indicating that the engine is running too cool.

I know the vehicles are very different but maybe you can glean something from my trials.

[rsteinmetz70112]

Reading the last post something occurred to me. Have you checked to see if it actually running hot? Is it simply a gauge error?

Different situation but I once had an English car when for some unexplained reason once the car warmed up the temp gauge went to the peg, if the headlights were on. If you turned the dash lights down the gauge went down as well. The engine was not running hot.

[tom4bren]

Reading the last post something occurred to me. Have you checked to see if it actually running hot? Is it simply a gauge error?

Yah, I thought of that too. That's why I plan on replacing the sensors again eventually. Too many other pots on the fire to worry about it right now though.

[MSHardeman]

Do you have a ScanGauge, or some other OBDII reader that you can hook up to the car (either of you)? That way you could get a temp reading off the ScanGauge and bypass the dash gauge to see if it is reading correctly or not.

[tom4bren]

I do have a scan guage ... but it's in the RV. Last time I hooked it up in the 'Clips, it turned off my speedo. Wierdest thing I ever saw. I'll give it a shot though, now that the hot weather is here, it may give some interesting results.

[zadam123]

also as far as the block tester I did have a mechanic stick in old emissions tester ( the 1 used for your tail pipe) into the radiator reservoir tank and it did show a little co2 there. but no other mechanic has ever heard of this test. it seems like the same idea it is just that every mechanic is telling me it is not a head gasket. it is so hard to find a good mechanic

[Triathlete]

Do you have a ScanGauge, or some other OBDII reader that you can hook up to the car (either of you)? That way you could get a temp reading off the ScanGauge and bypass the dash gauge to see if it is reading correctly or not.

But, if the sensor is bad the scan gauge will still give a bad reading since the scan gauge will still be getting its signal from the bad temp sensor.

[Y33TREKker]

also as far as the block tester I did have a mechanic stick in old emissions tester ( the 1 used for your tail pipe) into the radiator reservoir tank and it did show a little co2 there. but no other mechanic has ever heard of this test. it seems like the same idea it is just that every mechanic is telling me it is not a head gasket. it is so hard to find a good mechanic
Along the same line then, could you do something like a compression test on that front, passenger-side cylinder to see if air bubbles end up in your radiator or reservoir tank? When looking for blown head-gaskets, I know that bubbles in the radiator are what some look for when the engine is running, but it seems like differentiating between bubbles caused by basic water flow through the engine and/or the thermostat opening and closing would be guesswork at best.

Pressurizing the cylinder chamber with the engine cold, then hot (but not running) would be an additional way to determine if pressure leakage due to heat expansion were affecting things in any way.

Just trying to throw some possibilities out there.

[MSHardeman]

But, if the sensor is bad the scan gauge will still give a bad reading since the scan gauge will still be getting its signal from the bad temp sensor.

Very true Billy. Didn't pay attention (nothing new there) to the fact that we were talking about the sensor and not the gauge itself. If just the gauge is bad then the ScanGauge will read correctly if the sensor is bad then everything will be all cattywhumpus.

[rsteinmetz70112]

I thought were were talking about both and the wiring in between.

[zadam123]

It seems like the thermostat is still on order, he said he did a compression test and that was fine but he is going to get that block tester and try that befor he does the thermostat.

will keep you guys posted

thanks for all the help

[phines]

Your VX should not be overheating with the 170 degree thermostat (unless it's broken). That's what I have in mine now... That was one of the many things I tried when mine was overheating but it didn't make a difference.

[tom4bren]

But, if the sensor is bad the scan gauge will still give a bad reading since the scan gauge will still be getting its signal from the bad temp sensor.

I'm thinking the sensor that turns the fan on/off (not the sensor for the guage). When the AC is on, the temp is rock solid where it's supposed to be. I got the sensor from the stealership but it looked different (not as long). There has to be a reason that a longer probe is better!!!

[samneil2000]

I'm thinking the sensor that turns the fan on/off (not the sensor for the guage). When the AC is on, the temp is rock solid where it's supposed to be. I got the sensor from the stealership but it looked different (not as long). There has to be a reason that a longer probe is better!!!

I could be wrong (it happened... once) but I don't think I've ever heard the electric fan come on without the A/C. I wonder if it would help if you wired in a manual switch for that fan to force it on.

[tom4bren]

Sorry,

This thread has gotten long & it was 2 pages ago, I'm talking about overheating issues on my Eclipse (which has 2 fans). Everyone else is talking VX. Just sharing lessons learned.

BTW, VX fan should be 'OR'. It should come on for engine temp OR with A/C.

[VXobsession]

I've replaced my fan clutch, wasn't working. Thought it would be the relay but it was the fan itself. Fixed my head gaskets. Still running warm sometimes, like up to the 3/4 mark, but then it goes back down. I've noticed the fan doesn't come on until then. Never gets up to the hot mark anymore. Do these things normally run this warm? I've only had her a month, so I'm not used to her characteristics. I live in northern Arkansas and temps right now are sometimes over 100 degrees.

[circmand]

I could be wrong (it happened... once) .

I thought I was wrong once... But I was mistaken

[zadam123]

I've replaced my fan clutch, wasn't working. Thought it would be the relay but it was the fan itself. Fixed my head gaskets. Still running warm sometimes, like up to the 3/4 mark, but then it goes back down. I've noticed the fan doesn't come on until then. Never gets up to the hot mark anymore. Do these things normally run this warm? I've only had her a month, so I'm not used to her characteristics. I live in northern Arkansas and temps right now are sometimes over 100 degrees.

had mine since new and always rand between 1/4 -1/2

[zadam123]

OK here is where i am at . last i told you the mechanic said he checked the bolt and it was fine (I hope he checked it) He said he did a compression test and it was fine (again was not there so taking him for his word) he said it was absolutaly the thermostat being aftermarket so it told him about a compression leak tester that changes the blue liquid to yellow if there are gasses in the radiator to make it overheat (kind of on the same basis as the emmisions in the overflow for the antifreeze which my car failed detecting the co2) he said he would get one and test my car befor he did the thermostat.

so he got one and tested it and told me it was fine and the thermostate was the problem so i got one from st charles since for 2 weeks my mechanic said it would be there tommorrow, +1 for st charles :) got mine in 3 days. well after him putting it in he told me he took my car on a test drive and it was fine, good to go. great i thought untill i took if for my test drive an guess what , you got it . it OVERHEATED AGAIN!!

I went to autozone and got my own engine compression leak tester and sure enough it passed on this one. here is a pick and video of the blocktester and how it was used.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/tester.jpg

here is the video of the test and results

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X05PDw5IE1U


Here is the thing, I told the mechanic to get my car to over heat you have to drive it hard, meaning reve it above 3000 rpms. maby floor it a few times all when driving on the highway. for example I live in staten island , i took my car on the expressway for roughly 15-20 miles not to much traffic , I drive it around 50-70 mph moving the revs around from 2000-5000 . doing this the temp got right to the hot line at the end of this drive about a 15 - 20 minute ride. going back home i babied the car only going 40 and keepiing the revs at 2000 not above and the temp stayed at the line below the h but never rose.

any ideas, im at my whitz end, i really dont want to get rid of the vx but cant keep fixing things that dont solve the problem.
could it be the bolt if there are no gasses in the radiator?

[Triathlete]

An overheating tranny will cause overheating. Also have you had your radiator flow tested?

[Bob Barker]

I would imagine if you modify your driving habits then your vehicle would no longer overheat. If you have to drive at 5k RPM for 15-20 minutes then just don't drive like that and it wouldn't give you issues. I don't ever need to drive my VX like that, even when I'm goofing off in the dirt.

I'm sure the factory system should be strong enough to cool the engine under hard driving, but extreme driving for 20 minutes would put almost any factory stock cooling system to the test, and repeating that would eventually cause parts to fail.

[zadam123]

I would imagine if you modify your driving habits then your vehicle would no longer overheat. If you have to drive at 5k RPM for 15-20 minutes then just don't drive like that and it wouldn't give you issues. I don't ever need to drive my VX like that, even when I'm goofing off in the dirt.

I'm sure the factory system should be strong enough to cool the engine under hard driving, but extreme driving for 20 minutes would put almost any factory stock cooling system to the test, and repeating that would eventually cause parts to fail.

i did that just to see if i still over heated. if I drive on long distance on an expressway at posted speed I will still overheat. it just happens faster if I drive a little harder. the drive was mostaly at 3000 rpm but passing vehicles was at the 5roll mark

[zadam123]

also I was wondering is there anyway this could be a head gasket if I don't have it gas is in my radiator now,smoke or loss of power?

[Y33TREKker]

Maybe you covered this in the other threads you mentioned, but I didn't see anything about it here so just thought I'd ask to make sure the simple stuff has been covered. Have you checked your anti-freeze mixture lately? An approximate 50/50 mix is generally recommended, since straight anti-freeze or straight water doesn't have the cooling efficiency of a mix, and it's easily checked using one of those $1 testers you can get at any automotive store.

Just bringing it up so as not to overlook the possible obvious. And not that it should be needed under normal operating conditions, but something like the coolant system additive Water Wetter (I think Royal Purple also makes a similar additive) may be worth consideration until the problem is determined.

[zadam123]

antifreeze mixture is good

[zadam123]

antifreeze mixture is good
ITS FINALLY OVER

[Y33TREKker]

Meaning you solved the problem...or something else? That had sort of an ominous tone to it depending on how it was read.

[zadam123]

ITS FINALLY OVER!

On a hope and a prayer i brought my radiator to a radiator shop. It cost me 100 to have it professionaly cleaned and checked out(they took it out an put it back in) He told me it was pretty cloged up maby 50% so they blew it out top an bottem (this is what the last guy told me he did for 2 days but for some reason i didnt believe him) this guy also checked my a/c for me since it hasent worked after the last guy installed the heater core (they told me one had nothing to do with the other, liars) also since they did the heater core my compressor keeps comming on and off every 5 minutes , they said it was a coinsidence that it happend after the heater core.

so this guy blew out the radiator and said there was to much freon in there probably when they did the heater core they needed to replenish it and added to much and the final result ....A DRIVE HOME WITH MY A/C KICK'IN STRONG WITHOUT OVERHEATING, EVEN WHEN DRIVING IT HARD !!!!!!!

WOOHOO I GOT MY BABY BACK.

[Gussie2000]

ITS FINALLY OVER!

On a hope and a prayer i brought my radiator to a radiator shop. It cost me 100 to have it professionaly cleaned and checked out(they took it out an put it back in) He told me it was pretty cloged up maby 50% so they blew it out top an bottem (this is what the last guy told me he did for 2 days but for some reason i didnt believe him) this guy also checked my a/c for me since it hasent worked after the last guy installed the heater core (they told me one had nothing to do with the other, liars) also since they did the heater core my compressor keeps comming on and off every 5 minutes , they said it was a coinsidence that it happend after the heater core.

so this guy blew out the radiator and said there was to much freon in there probably when they did the heater core they needed to replenish it and added to much and the final result ....A DRIVE HOME WITH MY A/C KICK'IN STRONG WITHOUT OVERHEATING, EVEN WHEN DRIVING IT HARD !!!!!!!

WOOHOO I GOT MY BABY BACK.


Congrats zadam I hope this is the final chapter of you quest in finding the overheating issue and i think you finally did......The shop you was dealing with was the real issue.

I hate shops that does want your business,but fails doing the job right
and also lying to you.

Congrats and have fun,you still can enjoy the rest of the summer with blow cooling A/C.

[phines]

Awesome! I know how good it feels to finally get that problem fixed. Funny thing is I got mine fixed over 2 years ago and I still catch myself checking the temperature gauge on a regular basis when it's hot outside.

[rsteinmetz70112]

Awesome! I know how good it feels to finally get that problem fixed. Funny thing is I got mine fixed over 2 years ago and I still catch myself checking the temperature gauge on a regular basis when it's hot outside.

There's nothing wrong with checking the gauges. Don't feel guilty.

[PK]

ITS FINALLY OVER!

On a hope and a prayer i brought my radiator to a radiator shop. It cost me 100 to have it professionaly cleaned and checked out(they took it out an put it back in) He told me it was pretty cloged up maby 50% so they blew it out top an bottem (this is what the last guy told me he did for 2 days but for some reason i didnt believe him) this guy also checked my a/c for me since it hasent worked after the last guy installed the heater core (they told me one had nothing to do with the other, liars) also since they did the heater core my compressor keeps comming on and off every 5 minutes , they said it was a coinsidence that it happend after the heater core.

so this guy blew out the radiator and said there was to much freon in there probably when they did the heater core they needed to replenish it and added to much and the final result ....A DRIVE HOME WITH MY A/C KICK'IN STRONG WITHOUT OVERHEATING, EVEN WHEN DRIVING IT HARD !!!!!!!

WOOHOO I GOT MY BABY BACK.



Please please please, get a written report for the guy that fixed your problems, and take that and the account back to the first shop.
Even if you don't get anything out of them, it should teach them what the should be looking for the next time they come across an overheating issue.

I would just give them the information and see what their response is.
If they don't offer any refund, ask for 50%.
If they are total a**holes, walk out and just post a review of their service on every site you can.

PK

[zadam123]

Please please please, get a written report for the guy that fixed your problems, and take that and the account back to the first shop.
Even if you don't get anything out of them, it should teach them what the should be looking for the next time they come across an overheating issue.

I would just give them the information and see what their response is.
If they don't offer any refund, ask for 50%.
If they are total a**holes, walk out and just post a review of their service on every site you can.

PK

thank you for all the responses on this issue

funny thing is they told me they guarentee there work but when i said the car still overheated they said all they will do is try to find the problem, then said they wanted to have the radiator sent out and would cost more money to do it, how is that guarenting you work by telling me its definataly the thermostat and then telling me it will cost me more money to find the real problem? so i doubt i will get anything back. but will absolutaly post neg reviews on sites and maby even the BBB



as far as the temp guage , when this thing rose it rose quick with no symptoms of anything except the loss of my a/c. Is there anyting i can buy to add like a warning buzzer to let me know if it starts to overheat? I dont want to go through this again.

[Y33TREKker]

ITS FINALLY OVER!

On a hope and a prayer i brought my radiator to a radiator shop. It cost me 100 to have it professionaly cleaned and checked out(they took it out an put it back in) He told me it was pretty cloged up maby 50% so they blew it out top an bottem (this is what the last guy told me he did for 2 days but for some reason i didnt believe him) this guy also checked my a/c for me since it hasent worked after the last guy installed the heater core (they told me one had nothing to do with the other, liars) also since they did the heater core my compressor keeps comming on and off every 5 minutes , they said it was a coinsidence that it happend after the heater core.

so this guy blew out the radiator and said there was to much freon in there probably when they did the heater core they needed to replenish it and added to much and the final result ....A DRIVE HOME WITH MY A/C KICK'IN STRONG WITHOUT OVERHEATING, EVEN WHEN DRIVING IT HARD !!!!!!!

WOOHOO I GOT MY BABY BACK.

Good to hear zadam.

And for what my opinion is worth, the shop that told you the heater core has nothing to do with the A/C system was correct. The only way the heater core can be used to aid in cooling is when the engine is running hot and the heater is turned on. (The additional cooling effect is accomplished by incorporating the extra fluid capacity in the heater core and the heater hoses themselves).

They also proved themselves correct when they determined that the A/C system had too much freon in the system. That can have just as adverse an effect on the systems' cooling capabilities as not having enough freon.

While it sux that it cost you unnecessary $$ in the process because of the first shop, it's good to hear that you found a shop who knew what they were doing and got the VX fixed. Happy summer cruising!

[Triathlete]

Have you had the radiator checked? Could have a tube or two obstructed which would cause those symthoms.
Dang...I must of been a mechanic in a previous life :)
Glad to hear all is well with your VX again. Just sux when you take it to the guys that are supposed to know what they are doing and the have no clue!

[RickOKC]

Dang...I must of been a REAL mechanic in a previous life :)
Fixed that for you so you weren't just a "parts changer"... like me! :)

[zadam123]

Good to hear zadam.

And for what my opinion is worth, the shop that told you the heater core has nothing to do with the A/C system was correct. The only way the heater core can be used to aid in cooling is when the engine is running hot and the heater is turned on.

ok im curious now. i bought the car new and know what has ever been done to it, if my car overheated and heater core was replaced, do they have to add freon to it, maby they had to take off a freon line to do the heater core?

if not how can i get to much freon in the system?

it worked untill last summer and only things done to the car were heater core,theromostat and clutch fan

[RickOKC]

if not how can i get to much freon in the system?Sometimes people will just blindly dump "X-amount" of refrigerant into the system instead of using using gauges to add what is actually needed. :(

[Y33TREKker]

ok im curious now. i bought the car new and know what has ever been done to it, if my car overheated and heater core was replaced, do they have to add freon to it, maby they had to take off a freon line to do the heater core?

if not how can i get to much freon in the system?

it worked untill last summer and only things done to the car were heater core,theromostat and clutch fan
Only the shop that replaced your heater core would know whether they broke open the A/C system in the process, but normally, they shouldn't have had to. The A/C system is a closed/pressurized gaseous system entirely separate from the heater core/radiator water-filled system.

If they did add freon to your A/C system when they were replacing your heater core thinking for some reason that it would help with the overheating problems you were experiencing, it's like RickOKC said, maybe they didn't properly use/read the gauges made for working on A/C systems and simply overfilled/over-pressurized the A/C system.

We can only speculate on what may have happened and who may have done what, but the important thing is that it sounds like your VX overheating problem has been solved.

[VX KAT]

:?::?:
following this closely as had 2 overheating episodes in a month.

Both around 95 degrees, A/C on , going slow on a trail. Was OK for about a mile, but when I stopped...temp needle maxed. Turned off A/C, heat on max, drove faster on trail...temp came back to normal within a min or two. No doubt due to A/C, air temp, slow speed.:rollo:

I figure my Kilby skids must prevent some heat from escaping, plus my VX is carrying a fair amount of extra weight full time (tires, skids, sliders, roof rack, cargo basket, f/s spare, hitch, superbumper, JAMAS boxes....and the 2 plastic skids.) That's about 450 lbs.
So that's like 2 real good size passengers..... should be OK I'd think.....:?: Dub probably carries about 1000 lbs freight on board! :p....:?:

I have Purple Ice in the coolant which claims to reduce temp a few degrees. With the extra demands I'm putting on it, and the full skids, figure a radiator functioning at peak efficiency would be a really good idea. Since I don't know service history, I'm thinking of doing what zadam did...having radiator prof cleaned.

Could a cleaning/backflush create leaks, similar to when you switch from dino to synthetic?..i.e. cleans out crude that's actually plugging a hole?

Thoughts, suggestions, recommendations? :thanx:

p.s. pbkid prev suggested cutting a few extra holes in the skids to vent heat, with a backward facing cupped cover (to prevent getting hung up)....but that will cost bigger $$$.....

[JAMAS]

I am not a pro, but I believe coolant does loose its effectiveness overtime. A flush and refill every so often is a good thing.

[vt_maverick]

Sue did you read the post about the aluminum radiator? Probably not cheap, but if you consider your extra heat-generating / trapping mods as permanent, maybe it's a good idea to approach the solution to your intermittent problem as a permanent cooling mod as well?

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=20866

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/Rad16.JPG http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/Rad21.JPG

[rsteinmetz70112]

I am not a pro, but I believe coolant does loose its effectiveness overtime. A flush and refill every so often is a good thing.

I don't think that is correct.

The major constituent of most coolants is some form of glycol, although there are other chemicals used. It does not break down chemically in a sealed cooling system, it will breakdown in the environment.

What does break down are various additives that inhibit corrosion. It also gets dirty.

[VX KAT]

darn....I think it's official, I've got an overheating issue, now occurring every time I drive...:(

Just reviewed this thread and pulled out all the various things mentioned as possible culprits:
Broken head bolt
Head gasket
Thermostat
Stuck thermostat
Radiator cap
Sensor that turns fan on/off
fan clutch
Heater core
Water pump
Radiator obstruction
Anti-freeze mixture


Printed out "newthings" recent thread on the custom Ron Davis aluminum radiator too......http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=20866

Called up my mechanic to make appt...first thing he says is why don't I put in an aluminum radiator....hmmm...now there's an idea......:?::drool2::drool2:

OK, gonna look into details of the Ron Davis radiator...gulp...and see what kind of moula I'd be talkin' here...gulp....also asked newthings for detail$.

After I faint, and dave revives me, I know I'll have to have my mechanic explore some of the "other" possible culprits.

Since my heat-adding mods are basically "permanent", this aluminum radiator really does make good sense......that's my story and I'm stickin' to it! :slap:

[Scott Larson]

Stuck thermostat. Open or closed, it doesn't matter. If it's closed, water can't circulate. If it's open, water circulates too much, too fast and can't pull the heat away. The fact that it just suddenly started overheating is the clue IMHO. Faulty rad cap is also a suspect in this hot mystery

[gergmon]

Sue I've been having the exact same problem too. Only when I use the A/C does it start to shoot up after about 10 minutes. I look forward to hearing what you find out!

[IndianaVX]

Agree with Scott, you can have new radiator, shiney new cap, the prettiest new hoses, ect..... But if the thermostat isnt working right, none of that new stuff will cure your problem. Maybe it's just me, but I always start with the little (read cheap) stuff first. And these cheap things probably needed replaced anyway. Are you Loosing coolant? Also check the firewall between brake booster and fender for coolant. I've seen my truck spray coolant thru the resivour cap.

[VX crazy]

Mine does it too, and so did my other vx in the Texas heat with ac on in stop and go traffic, I just turn ac off and sweat til I start moving. Funny thing is the temp gauge in the truck says normal or tad over half when scan gauge says 210 , but after it gets just 6 degrees warmer the needle shoots way over, I have let it get to 222, too hot for me, no leaking coolant, coolant new in last yr and half and royalmpurple wetter always used too.

[VX KAT]

OK, gonna look into details of the Ron Davis radiator...gulp...and see what kind of moula I'd be talkin' here...gulp....also asked newthings for detail$.

After I faint, and dave revives me, I know I'll have to have my mechanic explore some of the "other" possible culprits.



Agree with Scott, you can have new radiator, shiney new cap, the prettiest new hoses, ect..... But if the thermostat isnt working right, none of that new stuff will cure your problem. Maybe it's just me, but I always start with the little (read cheap) stuff first. And these cheap things probably needed replaced anyway. .

Yeah, absolutely, going to have mechanic start next week picking off the possibilities (based on his eval and what he suspects). I'll also discuss various options with him re: radiator flush, alum radiator, etc...


1) Drove it for last 2 days up the big hill, with A/C, NO overheating at all...:?: but AIR temp was at least 6-8 degrees cooler....can that small of an air temp variation 6-8 degrees (91 vs. 98-99) really make a big difference??

2) Talked to "Bill" today at Ron Davis Racing Radiators. He wanted to ask about some things about my VX before he finishes the design updates (from "newthings") on the aluminum unit.
He had me try some stuff:

evaluating how far the fan blades protrude beyond the shroud (toward the rear of truck). The top of the shroud is a little deeper, for finger protection, but the sides are a little shallower.
My fan blades BARELY break the plane of the shroud.....meaning, my fan blades are set well INTO the shroud. Bill said that set up moves LESS AIR.
WHAT DOES EVERYBODY ELSES VX LOOK LIKE IN THIS REGARD??
COULD THIS BE YET ANOTHER "HAND MADE" VARIANCE??



moving the OEM main fan blades manually, feeling for resistance, when cold and when hot.
We found it spun pretty well, even easier when engine was warm



We checked to see if all bolts holding the radiator were tight and flush, with no spaces - checked ok.



Dave and I already confirmed the A/C fan comes on appropriately.


He asked if everything appeared to be OEM...he STRONGLY recommends ONLY OEM parts such as the blades, shroud, etc... He feels they're properly engineered for the vehicle, have certain tolerances, and are more durable in general.



[*He advised the OEM mechanical fan can move MORE AIR than a twin electrical fan set up can, so he recommends we keep the OEM....and make sure it's functioning optimally.
Is there a spec on the fan blade placement?.....gotta look that one up in the big manual.



Any comments, input????
.
.

[Triathlete]

Sue...your vx is just too clean. The dirt keeps the sun from heating things up...see, there is a method to my madness! :D

[Zu4two]

Sue, I looked at my fan last night and it's relation to the shroud. Mine protrudes about 3/4" at the top. I don't know how you would modify that clearance, maybe someone put washers in-between the fan and the clutch. You mention that the fan moves easier with your hand when warm? When it gets Hot it should actually be harder to move since the thermostatic clutch should be engaging. Of course this is when measuring resistance with the engine off. It is not recommended to check this with your hand while the engine is running :smilewink

Have you checked to make sure you don't have wax residue clogging the radiator fins from your incessant detailing? All kidding aside, a good power washing of the radiator might rid it of excess dust and grime that builds up after time.

[Y33TREKker]

...All kidding aside, a good power washing of the radiator might rid it of excess dust and grime that builds up after time.
I saw the same thing discussed recently on one of those half-hour automobile repair television shows.

They suggested holding a flashlight or worklight behind the radiator and looking to see how much light shined through to the front, because over time, road debris can accumulate between the radiator fins (and any other fluid cooling coils/fins in that area - like trans cooling coils, a/c condensor coils, etc) which can restrict air flow and significantly reduce cooling capacities.

And seeing as how the VX front end is just a straight shot right into the grill, it's not hard to imagine how a lot of road debris could find it's way into our radiators. Sometimes if we're lucky, it's checking the simple stuff that pays off.

[Scott Larson]

Nothin' that a good pressure washing can't fix...

[gergmon]

I'll give that a try. Same with me Sue, doesn't overheat when the A/C isn't running. Thanks for the tips.

[VX KAT]

I'll give that a try. Same with me Sue, doesn't overheat when the A/C isn't running. Thanks for the tips.

I'm going to try the pressure washer for sure, I see all kinds of bugs and brown crap on mine. Guess I can just blast it straight on?

What about your fan blades Greg, are they way into the shroud or do they break the plane by some distance?

This was October of last year on my long road trip...but it pretty much looks the same now....does this seem to be a lot of crude?
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/DSC_4763.jpg

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/DSC_4758.jpg

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/DSC_4757.jpg

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/DSC_4760.jpg

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/DSC_4762.jpg

[VX KAT]

Sue, I looked at my fan last night and it's relation to the shroud. Mine protrudes about 3/4" at the top. I don't know how you would modify that clearance, maybe someone put washers in-between the fan and the clutch. You mention that the fan moves easier with your hand when warm? When it gets Hot it should actually be harder to move since the thermostatic clutch should be engaging. Of course this is when measuring resistance with the engine off. It is not recommended to check this with your hand while the engine is running :smilewink

Have you checked to make sure you don't have wax residue clogging the radiator fins from your incessant detailing? All kidding aside, a good power washing of the radiator might rid it of excess dust and grime that builds up after time.

I'm going snap some pics tomorrow of the fan blades. I'll post them for comparison.

"Bill" also described how the "oil" in there should actually get thicker when hot, so it should be harder to spin the blade by hand after it's been warmed up. It was kind of a subjective assessment by Dave and I but it appeared to spin a little easier after engine was up to temp.....AND ENGINE WAS OFF :slap:. :_thinking

I got in touch with the VX owner on ebay that had purchased the FFD twin fan set-up and was so pleased with it. He's somewhere in TX and has had overheating for a while, with A/C on, in stop/go traffic, on high air temp days. He installed the twin fan set-up but it didn't help problem. When he contacted the company, they realized he should have been sent the "extreme" package, which is a SINGLE 17" FAN, and that solved his problem. This is consistent with what "Bill" told me.....a single larger fan can move more air than the smaller electronic fans.

Here's pics of the guys install: I thought the FFD set-up was in addition to the factory fan, and would be mounted in front of the radiator, but these pics appear it replaced the OEM.
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/VX%20RADIATOR%20PROJECT/FFDINSTALLEDONVX-1.jpg (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/photokat4/media/VX%20RADIATOR%20PROJECT/FFDINSTALLEDONVX-1.jpg.html)

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/VX%20RADIATOR%20PROJECT/FFDSETUPONVX3.jpg (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/photokat4/media/VX%20RADIATOR%20PROJECT/FFDSETUPONVX3.jpg.html)

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/VX%20RADIATOR%20PROJECT/FFDSETUPONVX4.jpg (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/photokat4/media/VX%20RADIATOR%20PROJECT/FFDSETUPONVX4.jpg.html)

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/VX%20RADIATOR%20PROJECT/FFDSETUPONVX2.jpg (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/photokat4/media/VX%20RADIATOR%20PROJECT/FFDSETUPONVX2.jpg.html)

[Scott Larson]

Sue, it's what you can't see buried in the rad fins that can cause all the hub-bub. If you hook-up a garden hose to your water heater so you get HOT water and blast out all the crud from the engine side of the rad, cleaning the entire rad side to side and top to bottom, that should certainly help. Put a nozzle on the hose end so you get a hot, high-pressure stream! Best of luck and don't scald yourself!!

[Triathlete]

But use caution to not bend the fins.

[Scott Larson]

But use caution to not bend the fins.

Good point! If you do have alot of bent fins, you can straighten them using a tool called a fin comb available at any HVAC supply store. (Heating, ventilation and air conditioning.)

[VX KAT]

Trying to find out if my fan blades are positioned more forward into the shroud than other VXs.
Kirk, how's this compare to yours?
Anybody have any comparisons, thoughts or input??
****************************
These two shots are straight on of the shroud & fan blades.
It seems like the base of the blades are actually further rearward than the tips of the blades
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/VX%20RADIATOR%20PROJECT/DSC_0319-1.jpg



http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/VX%20RADIATOR%20PROJECT/DSC_0324-1.jpg




From passenger side, can see the one blade sticking out:
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/VX%20RADIATOR%20PROJECT/DSC_0302-1.jpg



Dave's holding a ruler flush against the blades so it's easier to see how far they clear the shroud
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/VX%20RADIATOR%20PROJECT/DSC_0308-2.jpg


http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/VX%20RADIATOR%20PROJECT/DSC_0306-1.jpg


Distance/gap is about 1/2", if that.
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/VX%20RADIATOR%20PROJECT/DSC_0309.jpg


I know it's a totally different engine, etc...and it could be apples to oranges, but on both the GX and Dave's FJ, the blades stick out at least 1 1/4" outside the shroud:
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/VX%20RADIATOR%20PROJECT/DSC_0318.jpg

[VX KAT]

.
.
.
.Just thought of a question... the pics of the FFD 17" fan set-up show it has the fan blades completely within the shroud.....so how does that improve air volume???:?:

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/photokat4/VX%20RADIATOR%20PROJECT/FFDINSTALLEDONVX-1.jpg

[Y33TREKker]

Would a person have to account for some flex in the blades when they're turning? Taking their orientation into account, and the fact that they're plastic, it seems to me that once they start spinning, the act of cutting through the air would have them flexing "inward" toward the radiator. Do they appear to stick out of the shroud the same distance when the engine is running as they do when it's not?

[eternal21]

I got in touch with the VX owner on ebay that had purchased the FFD twin fan set-up and was so pleased with it. He's somewhere in TX and has had overheating for a while, with A/C on, in stop/go traffic, on high air temp days. He installed the twin fan set-up but it didn't help problem. When he contacted the company, they realized he should have been sent the "extreme" package, which is a SINGLE 17" FAN, and that solved his problem. This is consistent with what "Bill" told me.....a single larger fan can move more air than the smaller electronic fans.


So everyone has a little history ;)

http://vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=20464

[eternal21]

Mine does it too, and so did my other vx in the Texas heat with ac on in stop and go traffic, I just turn ac off and sweat til I start moving. Funny thing is the temp gauge in the truck says normal or tad over half when scan gauge says 210 , but after it gets just 6 degrees warmer the needle shoots way over, I have let it get to 222, too hot for me, no leaking coolant, coolant new in last yr and half and royalmpurple wetter always used too.

Started happening to me, as well, even w/the upgraded fan. So I stuck on another 10" fan in front of the radiator. No dice. I think too much heat is getting trapped under the hood. To test my theory, I'm going to remove the hood insert, and drive around on Mon & Tues of next week when the temp is going to be over 100 degrees again. We'll see what she does. I saw another member had ordered a heat extractor and put it on his hood, and it looked pretty good, so I ordered the same one for $95 on eBay. If removal of the hood insert does alleviate the situation, I'll be putting on the heat extractor in short order.

http://vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=236382&postcount=17

[VX KAT]

Started happening to me, as well, even w/the upgraded fan. So I stuck on another 10" fan in front of the radiator. No dice. I think too much heat is getting trapped under the hood. To test my theory, I'm going to remove the hood insert, and drive around on Mon & Tues of next week when the temp is going to be over 100 degrees again. We'll see what she does. I saw another member had ordered a heat extractor and put it on his hood, and it looked pretty good, so I ordered the same one for $95 on eBay. If removal of the hood insert does alleviate the situation, I'll be putting on the heat extractor in short order.

http://vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=236382&postcount=17

"Bill" from Ron Davis racing also told me this the other day:

If you put a 2nd fan on the front side of the radiator, it blocks airflow and probably only about 30 percent of the airflow makes it through the radiator. Not a good choice.

[RickOKC]

Trying to find out if my fan blades are positioned more forward into the shroud than other VXs. I didn't take any measurements, but the position of my fan looks the same. Hah, purple yardstick! :laughy:


To test my theory, I'm going to remove the hood insert, and drive around on Mon & Tues of next week when the temp is going to be over 100 degrees again.
Unless something has been modified, that won't do anything - the hood is solid metal underneath the insert.

[Triathlete]

Unless something has been modified, that won't do anything - the hood is solid metal underneath the insert.

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo150/Triathlete/trimmed%20cladding/P1010071.jpg

:bwgy::bwgy::bwgy::bwgy::bwgy:

[eternal21]

"Bill" from Ron Davis racing also told me this the other day:

If you put a 2nd fan on the front side of the radiator, it blocks airflow and probably only about 30 percent of the airflow makes it through the radiator. Not a good choice.

I've heard differing opinions on that one, Sue. We have members on this forum who have alleviated their overheating symptoms by installing a 2nd fan. My truck doesn't overheat at all with the fans on, so I'd be hard pressed to believe the add'l fan is causing an issue w/blockage. It only overheats when the a/c is on.


Unless something has been modified, that won't do anything - the hood is solid metal underneath the insert.

Good to know. Guess I'll take the entire hood off :)

[VX KAT]

Would a person have to account for some flex in the blades when they're turning? Taking their orientation into account, and the fact that they're plastic, it seems to me that once they start spinning, the act of cutting through the air would have them flexing "inward" toward the radiator. Do they appear to stick out of the shroud the same distance when the engine is running as they do when it's not?


I can see your point, when it's spinning it's pretty hard to estimate how far out those blades are.


I've heard differing opinions on that one, Sue. We have members on this forum who have alleviated their overheating symptoms by installing a 2nd fan. My truck doesn't overheat at all with the fans on, so I'd be hard pressed to believe the add'l fan is causing an issue w/blockage. It only overheats when the a/c is on.


:_shrug::_confused:_confused ...yeah, certainly adds to the confusion in trying to pinpoint a cause doesn't it...oh joy, sounds like fun times ahead....:goof:

[Paul_A]

Just Power washed my rad.... couldn't believe how much crud came out!

[Triathlete]

My opinion is that the cooling system worked at one point in time. If it is no longer getting the job done, there is something in the system broke, clogged, etc that is preventing the system from working properly. There should be no "need" for custom fans and radiators...not that they are not nice and sometimes effective. Unfortunately finding the "broken" part can sometimes be a pita.

[eternal21]

Think I found the culprit. A/C is spinning sllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwlllll llllllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. I'll be replacing that next week. Still wanting to chop up my hood, though :)

[VX KAT]

Think I found the culprit. A/C is spinning sllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwlllll llllllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. I'll be replacing that next week. Still wanting to chop up my hood, though :)

How'd this work out for you?